The Oberto Dilemma - Oberto declines his option/becomes a free agent

[Rustyman]

Oberto has been a great asset during this year's Championship run however, he has a one year player option at $2.5 million. He can and should opt out this year to maximize his earning potential as any agent worth his salt should be able to get him a deal starting a $4 million for 3-5 years.

The big question is, should the Spurs match? If not, what do you think the maximum offer the Spurs should make to Oberto?

[AFBlue]

The deadline for him to make the decision is TODAY, 25 Jun. Is there any indication so far as to what he's going to do?

[exstatic]

Oberto works here because we have a system. Out in the NBA at large, he probably wouldn't thrive in a world of athletic big men and isolations.

OTOH, his clock is ticking anyway. I don't think the FO is going to be too jazzed to pay a 30 something undersized underathletic big out of the cap room next summer. He should probably get what he can.

[ArgSpursFan]

The litle fundamental is staying and isn´t optin out.
I hope to see a much more self confident Oberto this coming season,after his great preformance in the playoffs this season.
He sure is undersized and unathletic,but way smarter tham any other post player in the league.

[Bruno]

The deadline for him to make the decision is TODAY, 25 Jun. Is there any indication so far as to what he's going to do?

The deadline was in fact yesterday.

http://www.nbpa.org/cba_articles/article-XII.php


an Option in favor of a player who would become a Restricted Free Agent if the Option were not exercised must be exercised prior to the June 25 immediately prior to the Season covered by such Option.

Yesterday and saturday weren't working days, so the deadline was likely Friday. IMO, Oberto has already picked or not picked his option. Spurs FO and Ludden haven't reported what oberto ahs decided for the moment.
Another option is that the league has given an extra day because June 24th was a non working day.

[ChumpDumper]

I always thought deadllines were bumped to the following working day when it fell on a weekend or holiday.

[ploto]

He actually has to choose to exercise the player option to stay- correct? No action means he is out.

[Mr. Body]

He actually has to choose to exercise the player option to stay- correct? No action means he is out.

I believe it's the opposite.

[ploto]

Wasn't that the problem with Anthony Carter-- he did not exercise his player option paperwork.

[ArgSpursFan]

its an Opt ¨out¨ clause.

[Darkwaters]

its an Opt ¨out¨ clause.

Well in that case...take a long nap today Fabs. Just sleep in. Don't worry, tomorrow will be another day.

[ploto]

Player option identifies a player who can decide to extend his contract one year.
nba.com

[ArgSpursFan]

Player option identifies a player who can decide to extend his contract one year.

correct,He can dedide if he stays or not,assuming that he didn´t bring another team to the table, He is just waiting until His contract ends up next year.

[Kori Ellis]

He actually has to choose to exercise the player option to stay- correct? No action means he is out.

That's correct. He needs to exercise his player option to stay.

[Kori Ellis]

If he's staying, they'll be a note similar to this on the NBA.com transaction list.


Philadelpia's Shavlik Randolph exercises his player option.

[Kori Ellis]

I always thought deadllines were bumped to the following working day when it fell on a weekend or holiday.

That's correct.

[ChumpDumper]

I don't see it as too big a problem. If he opts out, just say you'll match any offer. That will scare away most suitors. No one is going to offer him even a full MLE deal these days.

[Bruno]

I always thought deadllines were bumped to the following working day when it fell on a weekend or holiday.

My bad, you're right.

http://www.nbpa.com/cba_articles/article-XLIII.php


any deadline falling on a Saturday, Sunday, or Federal Holiday shall be deemed to fall on the following business day.

[Mitch Cumsteen]

With all due respect to Oberto, who was outstanding during the playoffs and is a great fit for the Spurs, what exactly is the market value of a 32 year old unatheltic 6'10" center who averaged 4.4 points and 4.7 rebounds during the regular season, and increased that production to 5.6 points and 4.9 rebs in the playoffs? I love him on the Spurs, but there are very few GM's with the foresight to look at him and not talk themselves out offering him. He's not a shot blocker. He can't shoot outside of 8 feet. He's a terrible free throw shooter. He's not a dominant rebounder. He's not a great one-on-one defender. Every GM will look at those attributes, and pass on him. There is nothing sexy about his game. They'll ignore how smart he is. What a good team defender he is. What a good position rebounder he is. How well he sets screens. Etc. Guys like Jerome James and Erick Dampier get long term contracts for $6-10M a year on the mere hope that they'll somehow fulfill their athletic potential, and Oberto will get passed on. It makes a lot of sense. Hell, even Popovich didn't realize how important he could be for the Spurs until he'd been with the team for a full year.

[FromWayDowntown]

I'd be stunned if Oberto opts out without already having the framework for a new deal in place with the Spurs. Weren't there reports at one point this season that Fabri would go back to Europe if the Spurs traded him? I guess that sentiment could change and that he might re-think that viewpoint if he has control over where he might go, but it sounded a whole lot like a guy who is very comfortable where he is and would rather not go elsewhere, unless elsewhere is Europe.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

With all due respect to Oberto, who was outstanding during the playoffs and is a great fit for the Spurs, what exactly is the market value of a 32 year old unatheltic 6'10" center who averaged 4.4 points and 4.7 rebounds during the regular season, and increased that production to 5.6 points and 4.9 rebs in the playoffs? I love him on the Spurs, but there are very few GM's with the foresight to look at him and not talk themselves out offering him. He's not a shot blocker. He can't shoot outside of 8 feet. He's a terrible free throw shooter. He's not a dominant rebounder. He's not a great one-on-one defender. Every GM will look at those attributes, and pass on him. There is nothing sexy about his game. They'll ignore how smart he is. What a good team defender he is. What a good position rebounder he is. How well he sets screens. Etc. Guys like Jerome James and Erick Dampier get long term contracts for $6-10M a year on the mere hope that they'll somehow fulfill their athletic potential, and Oberto will get passed on. It makes a lot of sense. Hell, even Popovich didn't realize how important he could be for the Spurs until he'd been with the team for a full year.

I have to agree with Mitch here

[Mr. Body]

I'd also be stunned if Oberto even cared to look at another team.

[ploto]

It's not about looking at another team, but instead about the fact that his contract as it stands will be expiring next summer. He surely would rather sign a new deal with 3 years on it for some security- as his value will never be any higher than it is today.

[wildbill2u]

Unless Oberto already has a pretty good indication of an offer from an outside team (and I'm not certain they can do that without tampering) it might be pretty risky for him to opt out unless he doesn't think the FO will be fair to him in contract talks.

The Spurs made an offer to Steve Jax which was pretty fair that he turned down and then wound up with less. A guy with Oberto's age and talent might easily be overlooked or downgraded by a lot of teams.

[zekes]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2916045

Fabricio Oberto, the starting center for the NBA champion San Antonio Spurs, has declined a player option on his contract and will become a restricted free agent.

Oberto had until midnight Sunday to decide whether to pick up his option for $2,500,000, and he did not make his decision until the final hours.

"I don't know how this changes things at all for us," Spurs general manager R.C. Buford said. "We have every hope that he'll continue to be a part of our team."

Oberto, a member of the 2004 Olympic champion team from Argentina, has spent the past two seasons with the Spurs. He averaged 5.6 points and 4.9 rebounds for the Spurs during the recently completed playoffs.

Chris Sheridan covers the NBA for ESPN Insider.

[ChumpDumper]

Makes sense. He wants some years.

[objective]

goodbye Oberto! Thanks for all you did this season!

[Mr. Body]

"I don't know how this changes things at all for us," Spurs general manager R.C. Buford said. "We have every hope that he'll continue to be a part of our team."

He sounds surprised.

Presti where are you?!?!?!

[bigfan]

I dont blame the guy but must admit Im a bit suprised. Regardless, lets see what kind of offers he gets, we can always match whatever offer he gets. If not, see ya; he isnt worth crazy money.

[ChumpDumper]

He sounds surprised. He doesn't sound anything.

[coopdogg3]

Yeah, I'm surprised too. Maybe he's OK with $/year, but he just wants more years. Hope he's on the club next year, but if not, guess Butler better be ready for some more minutes.

[Mr. Body]

He doesn't sound anything.

Sure he does. He sounds like he didn't expect this.

[ChumpDumper]

Sure he does. He sounds like he didn't expect this.There is no sound.

[Mr. Body]

There is no sound.

Are you always such a massive tool?

[ChumpDumper]

Do you always hear sounds when there are none?

[MisterWhodat]

lol

[michaelwcho]

If someone signs a contract in the middle of the forest...

[SequSpur]

oberto sucks

[Mitch Cumsteen]

It's a Buddhist koan: What is the sound of an NBA player exercising his option to become a free agent?

I still think he ends up back with the Spurs... just give him more years at the same or close to money. Nobody is going to drive his market value to something the Spurs can't afford. Who out there is going to spend more than 1/2 of the MLE on a 32 year old center who averages 4 and 4?

[Mr. Body]

It's a Buddhist koan: What is the sound of an NBA player exercising his option to become a free agent?

I still think he ends up back with the Spurs... just give him more years at the same or close to money. Nobody is going to drive his market value to something the Spurs can't afford. Who out there is going to spend more than 1/2 of the MLE on a 32 year old center who averages 4 and 4?

I believe you're right - it's for an extension.

Either that, or he's taken the Scola situation badly to heart.

[K-State Spur]

Do you always hear sounds when there are none?

Yeah, it's quite possible that he made that comment off-the-cuff or rather matter-of-factly. No reason to read anything into it in print.

[ChumpDumper]

Either that, or he's taken the Scola situation badly to heart. :lol You are really reading way too much into everything here.

[timvp]

Oberto not taking his player option is pretty bad news for the Spurs. Depending on how in love the Spurs are with The 2008 Plan, I could see the Spurs losing Oberto. And after what he did in the playoffs, it'd actually be a pretty devastating blow to the team.

Now all a team has to do to really hurt the Spurs is to offer Oberto something outrageous. Even the full MLE for two years makes the Spurs decide whether to keep Oberto and scrap The 2008 Plan, or go with Elson and continue The 2008 Plan.

It sounds like a no-brainer to keep Oberto, but this front office loves opening up cap space and has done so over re-signing some pretty quality players (Speedy, SJax, not to mention trading first round draft picks). If another team forces the Spurs to pick either cap space or Oberto, I don't think it's a slam dunk that the Spurs pick Oberto. Knowing the front office, they have the image of Elton Brand dancing in their heads for the 2008-'09 season.

Matching something like a two-year $11M or even a three-year $17M offer for Oberto isn't automatic, to say the least.

And I highly doubt Oberto will give the Spurs some sort of Manu/winning discount. He almost signed with the Memphis Grizzlies before the Spurs upped their offer. If he was willing to sign with the Grizzlies then, he'd be willing to go anywhere now that he has to bank in on his last pay day.

Bottomline is this could turn into an interesting situation if a team wants to overpay Oberto (even with a shorter contract). Plus there are enough teams out there who'd love to put the Spurs in a tough spot and could use Oberto (Dallas, Phoenix, Chicago, etc.).

[Solid D]

oberto sucks

:lol He was in there for almost the entire 4th quarter of Game 4 (instead of Horry). Good point.

[BradLohaus]

Matching something like a two-year $11M or even a three-year $17M offer for Oberto isn't automatic, to say the least.

If it comes to that, I have to think Fab is gone. I'd love to keep him, even for a little more money, but he is not greater than the Plan. No one is greater than the Plan. All hail the Plan! :clap

[Borosai]

As much as I like Oberto and appreciate his performance during the playoffs when it counted the most, he does not deserve a major raise. Elson makes more at the moment, so a reasonable raise and a couple of years would be a no-brainer. But if he's looking to cash in big or a long deal, the Spurs should just let him walk and find another center to stick in the rotation.

I hope it all works out and he plays in SA next year.

[Spurs Brazil]

Matching something like a two-year $11M or even a three-year $17M offer for Oberto isn't automatic, to say the least.

I think $11 is too much for Oberto and I'd not blame the Spurs to not match

I want Oberto to stay and I think a $8 for 2yrs is a fair deal. Elson got $6 for 2

The Spurs don't need to use the MLE on him, do they?

[GhostofAlfrederickHughes]

As valuable as he's been, if some other team wants to overpay for him, c'est la vie. The Spurs' organization has always been pretty astute when it comes to knowing when to hold 'em and knowing when to fold 'em. How'd that Nazr Mohammed do when he took the money and ran, anyway?

For all of you crying about us losing S-Jax, Claxton, Malik Rose, etc. over the years, try to remember we've won as many championships without those guys as we did with them. I'm not trying to minimize the role those people played, I'm simply pointing out the reality of the situation, which is that role players come and go. The core of the team is there, and if we lose Oberto, I think we can survive it.

You would think 4 championships would inspire some confidence in the Spurs front office, no?

[ChumpDumper]

The Spurs don't need to use the MLE on him, do they?No. I actually see the Spurs trying to use the early Bird exception to overpay Oberto for one season -- equal to the full midlevel. Oberto can take it or leave it.

I do like Oberto, but I kind of see him like AJ -- overrated because he was the first competent player in his position after years of suck. Losing him would hurt, but it wouldn't make a repeat impossible.

[El_Mago]

I would let Oberto walk and stick to the 08 plan if he wants a bigger deal than the Spurs are willing to give.

Although Oberto is a key component to our team, he is not vital.

I suppose this might throw a wrench into our draft scenarios.

Do the Spurs now go for a PF/C in the draft?

To the Spurs give the reigns to Jackie Butler?

Or do the Spurs fold their 08 plan and give into Oberto?

I highly doubt the latter will reign supreme.

[ploto]

When you look at the deals that other big men got last summer, I can see Oberto being offered the MLE by some team.

Supposedly the Spurs were willing to give that much to Przybylla last summer so why shouldn't Oberto expect close to the same for himself. Remember the contract extension offered by the Spurs to Nazr the summer after the 2005 championship. Oberto contributed more to this championship than Nazr did to that one.

Some team will make Oberto an offer he can't refuse and that the Spurs won't match.

[coopdogg3]

I would let Oberto walk and stick to the 08 plan if he wants a bigger deal than the Spurs are willing to give.

Although Oberto is a key component to our team, he is not vital.

I suppose this might throw a wrench into our draft scenarios.

Do the Spurs now go for a PF/C in the draft?

To the Spurs give the reigns to Jackie Butler?

Or do the Spurs fold their 08 plan and give into Oberto?

I highly doubt the latter will reign supreme.

I don't think there is an 08 plan, so it wouldn't surprise me at all if Oberto is resigned.

[GINNNNNNNNNNNNOBILI]

Any news on Finley?

[Solid D]

Oberto has now thrown down the handkerchief to Luis Scola. The challange is out there with no barriers. Mano e mano. It's a bake-off!!!

[ChumpDumper]

WSupposedly the Spurs were willing to give that much to Przybylla last summer so why shouldn't Oberto expect close to the same for himself.Because he's 32 and can't jump over a phone book.
Some team will make Oberto an offer he can't refuse and that the Spurs won't match.Possible, but not a problem that can't be overcome.

[steppy]

I get the feeling their beloved '08 plan is going to blow up in their face.

I think Oberto is one of those players that has intangibles and a pretty good basketball IQ that doesn't necessarily show up in a box score. He seems to know where to be on the floor with relation to Tim. He and Manu had a great connection from playing together for so long. There was more than once where they completed a nice play at a crucial point.

Hopefully he'll return. Then again, I can see someone else throwing huge money at him just to screw up the Spurs.

[ploto]

Oberto has now thrown down the handkerchief to Luis Scola. The challange is out there with no barriers. Mano e mano. It's a bake-off!!!
Maybe Oberto leaves and Scola can come then. Nice deal among friends to get them both what they want. :stirpot:

[Mitch Cumsteen]

Now all a team has to do to really hurt the Spurs is to offer Oberto something outrageous. Even the full MLE for two years makes the Spurs decide whether to keep Oberto and scrap The 2008 Plan, or go with Elson and continue The 2008 Plan.

It sounds like a no-brainer to keep Oberto, but this front office loves opening up cap space and has done so over re-signing some pretty quality players (Speedy, SJax, not to mention trading first round draft picks). If another team forces the Spurs to pick either cap space or Oberto, I don't think it's a slam dunk that the Spurs pick Oberto. Knowing the front office, they have the image of Elton Brand dancing in their heads for the 2008-'09 season.

Matching something like a two-year $11M or even a three-year $17M offer for Oberto isn't automatic, to say the least.

And I highly doubt Oberto will give the Spurs some sort of Manu/winning discount. He almost signed with the Memphis Grizzlies before the Spurs upped their offer. If he was willing to sign with the Grizzlies then, he'd be willing to go anywhere now that he has to bank in on his last pay day.

Bottomline is this could turn into an interesting situation if a team wants to overpay Oberto (even with a shorter contract). Plus there are enough teams out there who'd love to put the Spurs in a tough spot and could use Oberto (Dallas, Phoenix, Chicago, etc.).

I just can't see anybody offering a guy who averaged 4 and 4 the full MLE just to keep him from the Spurs. Even as idiotic as half of the current NBA GMs are, I just can't see it happening. Oberto doesn't fit in at all in Phoenix with their running game. He's not going to get minutes over Ben Wallace in Chicago and he certainly doesn't solve their low post scoring problems. Same thing in Dallas --- what is he worth to any of those teams? They all need to improve their teams and it doesn't look like Fabricio would be on their short list of answers. He's a nice role player with a limited domestic resume. I'd be stunned if anybody shot their MLE load to sign him. And if they do... good luck with that and see you next year when you collect your ring on a road trip to SA.

[TMTTRIO]

could easily see him moving to Chitown to team with Nocioni. That would give the Bulls a very strong Argentine connection and a viable center

[ploto]

See how quickly Spurs fans will turn on him for simply looking after himself and his wife and 2 kids. It's a business- right?

[timvp]

As it stands, if the Spurs don't add anymore contract on the books outside of The Big Three, it looks like the Spurs will have room to add a max free agent next summer. That's a pretty huge asset to have, especially in a year where there will be a couple of players out there that would look nice in silver and black.

If someone offers Oberto a two-year, $11M contract and the Spurs match it, that eliminates virtually all the cap room the Spurs had and pushes their cap space back down to just over the MLE. And really, Oberto is good enough to justify a team offering him a big, short term contract. A team will notice that Oberto was the Spurs' best plus/minus player in the playoffs and could view him as a capable center for a team wanting to make a championship push.

If the Spurs think Elson can take the second year jump in production and if they believe Butler is ready for a backup role, I can pretty easily imagine a scenario where the Spurs let Oberto go.

[coopdogg3]

See how quickly Spurs fans will turn on him for simply looking after himself and his wife and 2 kids. It's a business- right?

We're not turning on him. He's only worth so much to the Spurs, if another team is willing to offer more - best of luck to him.

[ChumpDumper]

He's already a millionaire several times over, so the tired "feeding my family" cliche simply doesn't fly. If he wants the most money, he can take it.

[coopdogg3]

As it stands, if the Spurs don't add anymore contract on the books outside of The Big Three, it looks like the Spurs will have room to add a max free agent next summer. That's a pretty huge asset to have, especially in a year where there will be a couple of players out there that would look nice in silver and black.

If someone offers Oberto a two-year, $11M contract and the Spurs match it, that eliminates virtually all the cap room the Spurs had and pushes their cap space back down to just over the MLE. And really, Oberto is good enough to justify a team offering him a big, short term contract. A team will notice that Oberto was the Spurs' best plus/minus player in the playoffs and could view him as a capable center for a team wanting to make a championship push.

If the Spurs think Elson can take the second year jump in production and if they believe Butler is ready for a backup role, I can pretty easily imagine a scenario where the Spurs let Oberto go.

Yeah, that's just it. They'll have the big 3, and nothing else. Then they need to sign 12 more players with about $15 million in cap room or so. Ain't gonna happen. There is no Master 2008 Plan.

[steppy]

I'm confused. How many players will be under contract after next season? Three? If we add another max player, that makes four? Are the Spurs going to fill in the rest of the roster with scrubs or what?

[timvp]

Some team will make Oberto an offer he can't refuse and that the Spurs won't match.

Yeah, if some team offers Oberto a deal that is half of what Rasho is on the books for, that could make the Spurs look elsewhere.

[Mitch Cumsteen]

Supposedly the Spurs were willing to give that much to Przybylla last summer so why shouldn't Oberto expect close to the same for himself. Because Pryzbilla is 5 years younger, 3 inches taller, is a real shot blocker, and averaged better numbers. He's got a much higher market value that Oberto.

[timvp]

Yeah, that's just it. They'll have the big 3, and nothing else. Then they need to sign 12 more players with about $15 million in cap room or so. Ain't gonna happen. There is no Master 2008 Plan.


I'm confused. How many players will be under contract after next season? Three? If we add another max player, that makes four? Are the Spurs going to fill in the rest of the roster with scrubs or what?

If the Spurs actually landed a max free agent next summer (Brand?), they could surround The Big Four with NBDL talent and take home the championship. It wouldn't matter.

The Spurs would have been faced with the same issues if they would have landed Jason Kidd.

[Solid D]

Oberto might need to factor-in added security back home in the Cordoba area if he gets much more than he has now. He won't get anything close to Manu money but with greater net worth and notoriety, unfortunately, comes the threats of foul play.

[GINNNNNNNNNNNNOBILI]

I'm confused... ESPN is saying this about Finley

No Word From Finley
Jun 25 - Michael Finley has yet to inform the Spurs whether he will opt out of his contract and become a free agent. He has until Saturday to decide.

I thought today was the deadline?

[ducks]

spurs could be forced to trade elson
get a trade exection

[coopdogg3]

I'm confused. How many players will be under contract after next season? Three? If we add another max player, that makes four? Are the Spurs going to fill in the rest of the roster with scrubs or what?

They have the big 3, Butler, and whatever they do with the draft picks this year. Beno is a possibility as well, though he's probably gone. There just won't be enough room to fill a team with competent role players, a max or near-max guy, and be competitive. It WILL be a chance to create a younger team to prepare for the next phase of the Spurs. They can hopefully add 3-4 youngers guys this year, and complete the process next off-season. Hopefully Holt is willing to take a steep luxury tax hit this year (for resigning Oberto and the MLE) since next year he should be OK.

[Kori Ellis]

Oberto will probably sign a 3-year/$10M deal with the Spurs. He probably only opted out to get years.

[whottt]

Planning to sign a max FA in 08 is stupid...been there, done that, never works.

We don't really need a max FA anyway...there's only one ball...and Oberto realizes that.

Every time this happens the Spurs struggle to replace the guy...for at least a year.

I'd rather not do that this time...the object is to win titles, not attempt and fail to sign Max FA's...not to win the cap room trophy. To win titles...this team needs to keep it's core and add to it's supporting cast...not try and fit another superstar into the mix...it's already hard enough to get enough shots for Duncan, Manu and Parker.

[ploto]

That is the same reason I question whether or not the Spurs are really going to be in the market much for trades. All those guys coming off the books next summer- I do not think they want to trade their expiring deals for ones that last past next season.

[Borosai]

Elson will play better next year, but that's not saying too much. The Spurs could really use Oberto's headiness, but not while overpaying him. I'd say a two-year, 4mil per extension is ideal.

Oh, and stop with the wife-and-kids charity talk. These guys make more money per year than most people will ever see. If they can't take care of their families with their salaries, they failed at life.

[coopdogg3]

If the Spurs actually landed a max free agent next summer (Brand?), they could surround The Big Four with NBDL talent and take home the championship. It wouldn't matter.

The Spurs would have been faced with the same issues if they would have landed Jason Kidd.

This is the plan that Phoenix is trying - and failing spectacularly. You need role players, plain and simple.

[SequSpur]

:lmao

oberto isn't worth 1 mill....

u guys r frickin high...

[ChumpDumper]

Oberto will probably sign a 3-year/$10M deal with the Spurs. He probably only opted out to get years.Entirely possible. If the cap is a real problem in 08 we could just trade Butler for a pick.

[timvp]

I'm confused... ESPN is saying this about Finley

No Word From Finley
Jun 25 - Michael Finley has yet to inform the Spurs whether he will opt out of his contract and become a free agent. He has until Saturday to decide.

I thought today was the deadline?

Finley has until Saturday to decide. Oberto's was a special case.

[Borosai]

Oberto will probably sign a 3-year/$10M deal with the Spurs. He probably only opted out to get years.

That sounds even better.

[timvp]

Entirely possible. If the cap is a real problem in 08 we could just trade Butler for a pick.

The Spurs have a team option for Butler that year. No need to trade.

[ploto]

He's already a millionaire several times over, so the tired "feeding my family" cliche simply doesn't fly. If he wants the most money, he can take it.
Who said feed his family- I said take care of his family.

Why is it applauded when ownership looks out for the bottom line but individuals are berated for caring about it for themselves. It is the Spurs PR at its best to villify those who won't sacrifice $$ for the team.

[K-State Spur]

Yeah, that's just it. They'll have the big 3, and nothing else. Then they need to sign 12 more players with about $15 million in cap room or so. Ain't gonna happen. There is no Master 2008 Plan.

Vet mins, rookie deals, etc. The cap room will be mainly for what we can bring in from another team, not every dollar of the payroll needs to fit within the cap number. How do you think teams go over?

I don't know why some people assume that there is no 2008 plan. Maybe bitterness from the 2003 summer, but the Spurs made every effort to get Kidd that year, it just didn't work out.

I'll personally be somewhat surprised if - barring a change in the way things look for next year as of right now - we do NOT offer Elton Brand a max deal. Now obviously a lot can happen between now and then. And he could go the Kidd route (although we're talking about the Clips here, not a NJ team that just made 2 straight Finals appearances).

But I'm not quite sure what the front office has done in recent years to make anyone distrustful of them having foresight towards the future.

[Solid D]

:lmao

oberto isn't worth 1 mill....

u guys r frickin high...

Borrow a Rascal and catch up with the group.

http://toyletbowlbbs.home.att.net/park2.jpg

[Bruno]

Yeah, that's just it. They'll have the big 3, and nothing else. Then they need to sign 12 more players with about $15 million in cap room or so. Ain't gonna happen. There is no Master 2008 Plan.

Spurs can't have more than $11M in cap space in 2008.

[ChumpDumper]

Who said feed his family- I said take care of his family.Same difference. It doesn't make him less of a multimillionarie.
Why is it applauded when ownership looks out for the bottom line but individuals are berated for caring about it for themselves. It is the Spurs PR at its best to villify those who won't sacrifice $$ for the team.Why should I shed a tear for multimillionaires who want more multimillions from richer multimillionaires? How many yachts can Rasho water ski behind?

[coopdogg3]

Vet mins, rookie deals, etc. The cap room will be mainly for what we can bring in from another team, not every dollar of the payroll needs to fit within the cap number. How do you think teams go over?

I don't know why some people assume that there is no 2008 plan. Maybe bitterness from the 2003 summer, but the Spurs made every effort to get Kidd that year, it just didn't work out.

I'll personally be somewhat surprised if - barring a change in the way things look for next year as of right now - we do NOT offer Elton Brand a max deal. Now obviously a lot can happen between now and then. And he could go the Kidd route (although we're talking about the Clips here, not a NJ team that just made 2 straight Finals appearances).

But I'm not quite sure what the front office has done in recent years to make anyone distrustful of them having foresight towards the future.

That's the problem. Do you want a Big 4 and then a bunch of veteran minumum guys, and some rookies surrounding them?? That won't work. At all. Spurs have success because they have the Big 3 AND role players. You need guys to fit a system. We don't need 4 all-stars and a bunch of losers. They MAY have a enough room for some decent level deals, but I doubt it. If we resign Oberto, and use our MLE for a multiyear deal, that 2008 cap space is just about gone.

[whottt]

For those that weren't here back in 03...like TimVP and Chump...


The last time we tried to sign a Max FA we wound up trading Leandro Barbosa and David Lee for Malik Rose and Nazr Mohammed, and replaced David Robinson with Hedo Turgoglu, Anthony Carter and Rasho.


Just stop it.


Just get someone that can d on LeBron and Dirk...and let's do it again.


Edit: and the last time we tried to sign a Max FA before that we traded Steve Kerr and Antonio Daniels for Steve Smith, and almost traded the 03 title and David Robinson for Chris Webber and or Derek Anderson...




If we never again attempt to sign a Max FA in the Duncan era...I'll be thrilled.

[timvp]

Planning to sign a max FA in 08 is stupid...been there, done that, never works.

Agreed. But do you really think the Spurs would sacrifice The 2008 Plan for Oberto? I would like to just keep this team together, add some young pieces and go on.

But if someone thinks thats for sure what the Spurs will do, they haven't been following the team that long. If it wasn't for a near revolt, the Spurs were willing to sacrifice David Robinson for The 2001 Plan. If they would hang David Robinson out to dry, they'd hang Oberto in a second.

Let's be real.

[MannyIsGod]

I believe you're right - it's for an extension.

Either that, or he's taken the Scola situation badly to heart.Thats a fantastic leap based on nothing.

[ChumpDumper]

I don't care about the cap plan. We can win with it or without it. Just like we can win with or without Oberto.

[Bruno]

For the moment, Spurs offseason isn't far of a worse case scenario :
- Oberto opting out.
- Finley will likely do the same.
- Scola case is very complicate with some rumors than he can stay in europe forever.
- Mahinmi injured making his evaluation by Spurs staff more difficult.
- Presti leaving.
- PJ maybe leaving.

The only good news is Horry deciding to come back.

[Spurs Brazil]

Oberto will probably sign a 3-year/$10M deal with the Spurs. He probably only opted out to get years

I think it's fair, but I'd like to see the 3rd year as a team option

[timvp]

Spurs can't have more than $11M in cap space in 2008.

They could. Depends on what the cap comes in at. I have them at around $42M on the books right now. If the cap comes in at $55M (which would be a couple million dollar jump in two years), that'd be enough for a max FA.

[whottt]

Agreed. But do you really think the Spurs would sacrifice The 2008 Plan for Oberto? I would like to just keep this team together, add some young pieces and go on.

But if someone thinks thats for sure what the Spurs will do, they haven't been following the team that long. If it wasn't for a near revolt, the Spurs were willing to sacrifice David Robinson for The 2001 Plan. If they would hang David Robinson out to dry, they'd hang Oberto in a second.

Let's be real.

Yeah...but Oberto is the cheap route...Spurs are always willing to save money if given the opportunity.

Oberto is not really who we need to replace to improve.

[Mr. Body]

Thats a fantastic leap based on nothing.

Dude, you're as much a fucking idiot as ever. Second sentence = sarcasm.

Go back in your hole, little dude.

[SequSpur]

parker, duncan, manu and lebron... book it...

lmao@ploto

I am in reno and I just called 911 cuz the spurs r raping oberto :lol

[Bruno]

IMO, the 2008 plan doesn't exist.

Spurs have offered Pryz a 4 years deal one week before Elson and Butler signing.
Spurs just wnated to give Elson and Butler only 2 years contract and the 2008 plan excuse was a good way to give them only 2 guaranteed years without hurting them.

[Marcus Bryant]

For the moment, Spurs offseason isn't far of a worse case scenario :
- Oberto opting out.
- Finley will likely do the same.
- Scola case is very complicate with some rumors than he can stay in europe forever.
- Mahinmi injured making his evaluation by Spurs staff more difficult.
- Presti leaving.
- PJ maybe leaving.

The only good news is Horry deciding to come back.

I can easily see some rivals feigning interest in Finley (assuming he opts out) and Oberto simply to drive up their price tags for the Spurs.

[Solid D]

For the moment, Spurs offseason isn't far of a worse case scenario :
- Oberto opting out.
- Finley will likely do the same.
- Scola case is very complicate with some rumors than he can stay in europe forever.
- Mahinmi injured making his evaluation by Spurs staff more difficult.
- Presti leaving.
- PJ maybe leaving.

The only good news is Horry deciding to come back.

Even taking the glass-half-empty approach, the doom and gloom fears should go on ice until after the draft...

[kyleo]

For the moment, Spurs offseason isn't far of a worse case scenario :
- Oberto opting out.
- Finley will likely do the same.
- Scola case is very complicate with some rumors than he can stay in europe forever.
- Mahinmi injured making his evaluation by Spurs staff more difficult.
- Presti leaving.
- PJ maybe leaving.

The only good news is Horry deciding to come back.
Another bit of good news: Manu not playing for the national team.

If this is seriously a "worst case scenario," the Spurs have it pretty good.

[Bruno]

They could. Depends on what the cap comes in at. I have them at around $42M on the books right now. If the cap comes in at $55M (which would be a couple million dollar jump in two years), that'd be enough for a max FA.

When you have less than 12 players under contract, you had to add min salaries to fill the roster when you compute the team salary. Spurs will be at $46M.

[timvp]

For those that weren't here back in 03...like TimVP and Chump...


The last time we tried to sign a Max FA we wound up trading Leandro Barbosa and David Lee for Malik Rose and Nazr Mohammed, and replaced David Robinson with Hedo Turgoglu, Anthony Carter and Rasho.


Just stop it.


Just get someone that can d on LeBron and Dirk...and let's do it again.


Edit: and the last time we tried to sign a Max FA before that we traded Steve Kerr and Antonio Daniels for Steve Smith, and almost traded the 03 title and David Robinson for Chris Webber and or Derek Anderson...




If we never again attempt to sign a Max FA in the Duncan era...I'll be thrilled.

You are preaching to the choir. I was against The 2001 Plan and The 2003 Plan. I'm also against The 2008 Plan.

But if a fan doesn't think a plan exists, that fan hasn't followed the Spurs cap situation for that long. Some of us have seen the writing on the wall for The 2008 Plan for a couple years now.

You'd think the Spurs would scrap a plan to retain players who have a history of winning championships on the Spurs, but it hasn't worked that way to date.

[whottt]

For the moment, Spurs offseason isn't far of a worse case scenario :
- Oberto opting out.

Was a no-brainer he would do it after the way he played in the post season.



- Finley will likely do the same.

Adios



- Scola case is very complicate with some rumors than he can stay in europe forever.

Vaya Con Dios



- Mahinmi injured making his evaluation by Spurs staff more difficult.

C'est la vie...il ne big deal pas



- Presti leaving.

Hopefully he'll trade for Beno and Karaulov.



- PJ maybe leaving.

The only thing besides Oberto that concerns me...I think he has quite a bit to do with the Spurs much improved offense during the 3 titles in 5 years run....still, he's been here long enough to where the offense should run itself as long as we have Duncan, Parker and Manu to run it.




The only good news is Horry deciding to come back.


That's just the first bit of good news...

[K-State Spur]

That's the problem. Do you want a Big 4 and then a bunch of veteran minumum guys, and some rookies surrounding them?? That won't work. At all. Spurs have success because they have the Big 3 AND role players. You need guys to fit a system. We don't need 4 all-stars and a bunch of losers. They MAY have a enough room for some decent level deals, but I doubt it. If we resign Oberto, and use our MLE for a multiyear deal, that 2008 cap space is just about gone.

It doesn't matter what I WANT, you said that there is definitely no plan. Based upon what we tried to do in 2003, I see no reason to believe that the FO doesn't have something in mind - potentially big considering that the last couple years of duncan & ginobili's prime will staring them in the face. Maybe it will work, maybe it won't, but there is no reason to say that there is no plan.

And if they sign a max guy, give this FO some credit for an ability to be creative with filling out the rest of the roster.

[Marcus Bryant]

They could. Depends on what the cap comes in at. I have them at around $42M on the books right now. If the cap comes in at $55M (which would be a couple million dollar jump in two years), that'd be enough for a max FA.

The possibility is there, but at this point with precious few years remaining in TD's career you have to lean towards what makes you better today. If the Spurs set themselves up to have, say $8 mil in cap room in '08 that'd be enough.

[CubanMustGo]

ESPN's Hollinger thinks it'll end up being 3 yr, $12M, pretty close to what Kori said.

[timvp]

When you have less than 12 players under contract, you had to add min salaries to fill the roster when you compute the team salary. Spurs will be at $46M.

Good point. But it's impossible to tell what the cap will be in 2008 so that'd give the Spurs' FO hope to continue on with the plan.

[Bruno]

Even taking the glass-half-empty approach, the doom and gloom fears should go on ice until after the draft...

Agree, I will even wait July and the start of the FA period.

[pad300]

Spurs can't have more than $11M in cap space in 2008.


Even if they work some sort of opt-out deal with TD? ie that summer he opts out, taking ~ 20 million off the payroll. The Spurs sign FA's as appropriate, up to the salary cap (~57 million in 08), and then resign Duncan using his bird rights. Something like $15 million/year for 6 years, is worth much more than the remaining 2 years of his contract (08/09 $20,598,704 09/10 $22,183,220).

[Marcus Bryant]

Good point. But it's impossible to tell what the cap will be in 2008 so that'd give the Spurs' FO hope to continue on with the plan.

I think you use your full MLE this summer if it will make you better, '08 be damned. Assuming $13 mil in '08 cap room before that, that would give them about $8 mil in cap room in '08 after, which is enough to give them an edge over teams which will only have the MLE then.

[Marcus Bryant]

Even if they work some sort of opt-out deal with TD? ie that summer he opts out, taking ~ 20 million off the payroll. The Spurs sign FA's as appropriate, up to the salary cap (~57 million in 08), and then resign Duncan using his bird rights. Something like $15 million/year for 6 years, is worth much more than the remaining 2 years of his contract (08/09 $20,598,704 09/10 $22,183,220).

I think you extend TD this summer if he is amenable.

[Marcus Bryant]

ESPN's Hollinger thinks it'll end up being 3 yr, $12M, pretty close to what Kori said.

Until Phoenix decides to give him a call...

[coopdogg3]

It doesn't matter what I WANT, you said that there is definitely no plan. Based upon what we tried to do in 2003, I see no reason to believe that the FO doesn't have something in mind - potentially big considering that the last couple years of duncan & ginobili's prime will staring them in the face. Maybe it will work, maybe it won't, but there is no reason to say that there is no plan.

And if they sign a max guy, give this FO some credit for an ability to be creative with filling out the rest of the roster.

Fine, I'll re-phrase:

I do not think there is any sort of 2008 Plan.

[Bruno]

The Spurs sign FA's as appropriate, up to the salary cap (~57 million in 08), and then resign Duncan using his bird rights.

You can't do that.
Read that :
http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#30

[SequSpur]

finley is opting out also... duh

[ChumpDumper]

Until Phoenix decides to give him a call...Aren't they trying to cut payroll?

[Bruno]

Good point. But it's impossible to tell what the cap will be in 2008 so that'd give the Spurs' FO hope to continue on with the plan.

I hope Spurs FO isn't dumb enough to have a plan based on an unlikely event like a big cap raise.

[whottt]

I don't care about the cap plan. We can win with it or without it. Just like we can win with or without Oberto.


Sorry, but the bit pieces are not easily replaced, and they are important...it took us 3 years to replace Mario Elie...it took us a year to replace Jack.

Oberto became a key part of the rotation at the end of this season...unless you can show me who is going to do the job as well as he did...I'd say he's a must re-sign. And it's not about stats when you are talking role players on this team...it's about chemistry and wins...Oberto is proven.

[Marcus Bryant]

Aren't they trying to cut payroll?

Allegedly. If not them, then Dallas, Houston, LA or whoever.

[Solid D]

I don't look at the Oberto move as a lost opportunity. He has just tipped the offensive rebound back out to the PG to reset the shot clock....that's all. :smokin

[K-State Spur]

Fine, I'll re-phrase:

I do not think there is any sort of 2008 Plan.

Fair enough - but what are you basing that on? You may not always like what we've done in the offseason over the past 5 years (I don't), but Pop/RC usually seem to have a pretty good idea of what they want to do, even after their first options fall through.

[timvp]

The Spurs should no doubt be in a win now phase. Then again, I've been saying the same thing for seven years now.

If I were in control, I'd re-sign Oberto and Bonner. I'd be more hesitant to re-sign Finley than I would Oberto and Bonner. Finley is replaceable in the draft or in free agency since he plays the position that easiest to fill. Big guys who are willing and capable of fitting into the Spurs system are much tougher to find.

I'd also use the MLE to add talent to the team. If the Spurs have The 2008 Plan in mind, they won't use the MLE this summer.

We'll see how the Spurs proceed this summer but I'd be surprised if they abort The 2008 Plan. But we'll see.

[AFBlue]

Sorry, but the bit pieces are not easily replaced, and they are important...it took us 3 years to replace Mario Elie...it took us a year to replace Jack.

Oberto became a key part of the rotation at the end of this season...unless you can show me who is going to do the job as well as he did...I'd say he's a must re-sign. And it's not about stats when you are talking role players on this team...it's about chemistry and wins...Oberto is proven.

Luis Scola....who is more talented, younger, and now...he's more likely cheaper.

[Spurminator]

3 years, $6 million

[Bruno]

I'd be surprised if they abort The 2008 Plan.

They haven't even started the 2008 plan.

[whottt]

Luis Scola....who is more talented, younger, and now...he's more likely cheaper.


He's also unproven(but wants to be paid like he is proven), talks a lot of shit, and can't play C, rebound, or defend as well as Oberto...and it took Oberto a year to get the system.

[Marcus Bryant]

I suspect he will get a significant raise. 3 years/$14 mil would work out to a starting salary of about $4.5 mil or so.

[timvp]

One thing to add to the equation is how all of this will effect the team this season in terms of the luxury tax. If you give Oberto a raise, re-sign Bonner, add a first round pick and use the MLE, I think that would push them far over the luxury tax threshold.

I don't know the exact numbers though.

[Marcus Bryant]

One thing to add to the equation is how all of this will effect the team this season in terms of the luxury tax. If you give Oberto a raise, re-sign Bonner, add a first round pick and use the MLE, I think that would push them far over the luxury tax threshold.

I don't know the exact numbers though.

Sounds right for 2007-08.

[timvp]

They haven't even started the 2008 plan.

You think it's magic that only three Spurs are on the books after this coming season?

[whottt]

Exactly what makes Bonner a must sign again?


I'm not hating...it's just that he contributed exactly jack shit to this title...and I haven't seen him hit a basket under anything remotely resembling pressure, yet, in his career....and we got PF projects coming out the Wazzoo(and will likely have another after this draft).

[timvp]

Exactly what makes Bonner a must sign again?


I'm not hating...it's just that he contributed exactly jack shit to this title...and I haven't seen him hit a basket under anything remotely resembling pressure yet in his career.

What did Oberto or SJax do in their first season with the Spurs?

[coopdogg3]

Fair enough - but what are you basing that on? You may not always like what we've done in the offseason over the past 5 years (I don't), but Pop/RC usually seem to have a pretty good idea of what they want to do, even after their first options fall through.

Oh, I've liked what RC and Pop have done. Can't argue with 3 championships in 5 years. I just don't think this makes any sense at all. I think the idea of the plan is mainly coming from fans, and not from the FO. If we re-sign Oberto and use our MLE on at least a 2 year deal, then a lot of that cap space is gone. I just don't think it makes good sense to have the big 3, throw in a high-dollar 4th (who may not mesh), and then surround them all with scrubs.

The Spurs just seem to re-boot every few years, and that's all 2008 will be. I highly doubt they sign anybody to big-dollar deal.

[Marcus Bryant]

The Spurs should no doubt be in a win now phase. Then again, I've been saying the same thing for seven years now.

If I were in control, I'd re-sign Oberto and Bonner. I'd be more hesitant to re-sign Finley than I would Oberto and Bonner. Finley is replaceable in the draft or in free agency since he plays the position that easiest to fill. Big guys who are willing and capable of fitting into the Spurs system are much tougher to find.

I'd also use the MLE to add talent to the team. If the Spurs have The 2008 Plan in mind, they won't use the MLE this summer.

We'll see how the Spurs proceed this summer but I'd be surprised if they abort The 2008 Plan. But we'll see.


Let Finley walk if his price is too high and sign DBrown.

[Brutalis]

Bye Fin, Bonner, and Oberto!

Don't really need ya. Can be easily replaced.

[Bruno]

You think it's magic that only three Spurs are on the books after this coming season?

Last summer they offered Pryzbilla a 4 years contract.
It's not like Spurs have only try to get last summer players for only 2 years.

[whottt]

What did Oberto or SJax do in their first season with the Spurs?


:lmao

That kind of logic is the quick route to Clipperdom.


I'll be honest...I don't trust Bonner taking shots in big games. And I saw him play enough to feel pretty confident in my lack of trust...he's a hustle guy, but he's no freaking Robert Horry replacement...believe this.


Not a must sign IMO.

[Slinkyman]

One thing to add to the equation is how all of this will effect the team this season in terms of the luxury tax. If you give Oberto a raise, re-sign Bonner, add a first round pick and use the MLE, I think that would push them far over the luxury tax threshold.

I don't know the exact numbers though.

maybe it becomes a toss up, do we resign oberto or bonner? not both.

[AFBlue]

He's also unproven(but wants to be paid like he is proven)

There's so much speculation about what his buyout was ($3M, $9M, $15M), and what his actual contract demands were (seperate from buyout $$ or buyout $$ included) that I honestly don't think you can assess how much he was really asking....but my guess is that it's less than the $4M/yr that Oberto will likely get.


talks a lot of shit

I don't get this one. He's a talented guy that deserves a shot to play in this league and he was pissed off when he didn't get that opportunity. I look at him as being competitive, not as being a jerk. Plus, if he truly is a shit-talker, let him try to back it up wiht play...


and can't play C, rebound, or defend as well as Oberto...and it took Oberto a year to get the system.

True, he can't play C, but the other bigs on the Spurs are versatile enough to...so he can play with them. I don't know whether or not he's a better defender, but he's at least a legitimate option on offense.

I look at Oberto alot like I look at Vaughn. Both play extremely hard and utilize their limited talent to the utmost...but in the end, there are just better options out there.

[ChumpDumper]

PFs that can hit the three make the Spurs offense work. Horry won't be around forever -- and will only be playing about 15mpg this coming season -- and I don't know of any other free agent who can do it.

If you don't care about 08, just bring everyone back. They are proven.

[Solid D]

PFs that can hit the three make the Spurs offense work. Horry won't be around forever -- and will only be playing about 15mpg this coming season -- and I don't know of any other free agent who can do it.

If you don't care about 08, just bring everyone back. They are proven.

Can you spell Nick Fazekas?

[timvp]

2006-07 Salaries
Duncan - 19M
Parker - 10.5M
Ginobili - 9.1M
Barry - 5.6M
Bowen - 4.1M
Horry - 3.6M
Elson - 3M
Butler - 2.4M
Udrih - 1.7M
White - .4M
Total = $59.4M

The luxury tax will probably kick in at around $67M. That means the Spurs have $7.6M to re-sign Oberto, Finley, Bonner and Vaughn. Also add in the cost of the first round draft pick if the Spurs decide to keep it.

It's going to be tough to do all that ... and that's not even considering using the MLE to improve the team.

I think that unless the Spurs let Oberto and Finley walk, there is no way they will use the MLE. Holt isn't going to okay the idea of going millions over the luxury tax threshold.

[ChumpDumper]

Can you spell Nick Fazekas?If it weren't written in front of me, probably not.

Like I said -- free agent. I'm not crazy about using a first rounder on anyone slow.

[whottt]

PFs that can hit the three make the Spurs offense work. Horry won't be around forever -- and will only be playing about 15mpg this coming season -- and I don't know of any other free agent who can do it.


Um....guys that can't hit shots under pressure are usually useless to the Spurs and liking them is the same as hating Tim Duncan. Smitty, Porter, Hedo, Ferry...




If you don't care about 08, just bring everyone back. They are proven.

I do want everyone that was part of the core brought back...except for maybe Finley...and I want to add a SF that isn't a bean pole to the mix as well.

[coopdogg3]

You think it's magic that only three Spurs are on the books after this coming season?

Substitute "coincidence" for "magic" and yeah, that's kinda what I think.

[timvp]

IMO.

Is that the same opinion that thought the Cavs would win in five?

[ChumpDumper]

Um....guys that can't hit shots under pressure are usually useless to the Spurs and liking them is the same as hating Tim Duncan. Was Bonner ever in those situations?


I do want everyone that was part of the core brought back...except for maybe Finley...Fine. See you in November.

[timvp]

and I want to add a SF that isn't a bean pole to the mix as well.

With what money? Maybe you can ask Santa.

[AFBlue]

I know the Finley opt out has been mentioned, but has he made it official? He has until the end of the week right?

[whottt]

There's so much speculation about what his buyout was ($3M, $9M, $15M), and what his actual contract demands were (seperate from buyout $$ or buyout $$ included) that I honestly don't think you can assess how much he was really asking....but my guess is that it's less than the $4M/yr that Oberto will likely get.

Hm...you think the unproven Scola is better than Oberto, because of that, your opinion is suspect IMO....on paper, Rasho and Nazr are better than Oberto too.




I don't get this one.

Join Date: 07-24-2006




He's a talented guy that deserves a shot to play in this league and he was pissed off when he didn't get that opportunity. I look at him as being competitive, not as being a jerk. Plus, if he truly is a shit-talker, let him try to back it up wiht play...

He talked shit the night we drafted him and hasn't stopped talking it since...

I mean the idea of adding him to the team is intriguing...but he's not a must sign in any way shape or form. Meanwhile...Oberto just started for an NBA champion and his performance was universally lauded.




True, he can't play C, but the other bigs on the Spurs are versatile enough to...so he can play with them. I don't know whether or not he's a better defender, but he's at least a legitimate option on offense.

I look at Oberto alot like I look at Vaughn. Both play extremely hard and utilize their limited talent to the utmost...but in the end, there are just better options out there.

Join Date: 07-24-2006

[Kori Ellis]

Substitute "coincidence" for "magic" and yeah, that's kinda what I think.

Well it's not a coincidence. The Spurs have intentionally not been offering contracts past next summer for a reason. That's the summer of big named free agency and they wanted to be in mix.

Anyway, a 3M/year contract to Oberto won't ruin that.

I'm guessing the Spurs will offer their standard 3 year/$9-11M contract that they offer most of their role players and then if he walks (ala SJax) they move on.

[whottt]

With what money? Maybe you can ask Santa.


Draft or Trade..............


SF is not the need position in the NBA...it's the surplus position in the NBA...

[ChumpDumper]

Who has all the surplus 6'9"+ SFs to give away?

[picnroll]

They could. Depends on what the cap comes in at. I have them at around $42M on the books right now. If the cap comes in at $55M (which would be a couple million dollar jump in two years), that'd be enough for a max FA.
Conceivably Duncan can opt out and sign a longer deal with less yearly money increasing the Spurs cap space.

[Slinkyman]

i wonder if the spurs will offer him a contract first or let another team give him a deal and then decide to match or not.

[whottt]

Is that the same opinion that thought the Cavs would win in five?

Yeah...but it's different now.

[AFBlue]

Hm...you think the unproven Scola is better than Oberto, because of that, your opinion is suspect IMO....on paper, Rasho and Nazr are better than Oberto too.





Join Date: 07-24-2006





He talked shit the night we drafted him and hasn't stopped talking it since...

I mean the idea of adding him to the team is intriguing...but he's not a must sign in any way shape or form. Meanwhile...Oberto just started for an NBA champion and his performance was universally lauded.





Join Date: 07-24-2006

If your best rebuttal is stating when I joined the Spurs Forum as if I was born on 7-23-2006, you're not worth debating. I don't know if it's ever occured to you that I lived in San Antonio my whole life, followed the Spurs my whole life, and didn't find this little community of Spurs fans until I was forced to live outside the Beloved State of Texas and had to seek out fellow Spurs fans on the internet.

Contrary to the opinion of Whottt the reject, I was NOT born yesterday...

[timvp]

Draft or Trade..............


SF is not the need position in the NBA...it's the surplus position in the NBA...

There's no SF in the draft that the Spurs can get that fits that mold.

Trade who? The Spurs don't have much to entice teams to give up a player who would fit on the Spurs as a Long Three.

Step out of fantasy world and enter real world.

Tanks.

:smokin

[whottt]

Who has all the surplus 6'9"+ SFs to give away?


I'll be happy with 6'8...or 6'7 225lbs+ and under the age of 34.

[ChumpDumper]

I'll be happy with 6'8...or 6'7 225lbs+ and under the age of 34.So put James White (!) on the Hedo burrito diet.

[timvp]

Yeah...but it's different now.

What's different now? You don't think the Cavs can win in five anymore? :lol

[kris]

Resigning Oberto to another deal seems like a bad move to me. I'll be the first to admit, he was vital to this championship one. He played way above his head and made smart/timley plays throughout the playoffs. But 3m on the books for 3 more years with Oberto isn't wise.

Why I think this:

1. Resigning Oberto doesn't mean the Spurs are in a great position to win the coming championship. The Spurs will probably have to meet Dallas in 07-08 and they barely escaped Phoenix who looks like they are revamping their team. Resigning Oberto keeps the Spurs stagnant, old, and unathletic.

2. Oberto's magic came at the opportune time, but maybe he was looking at it as a contract situation. I don't completely endorse this given his demeanor, but it's a possibility. Also, what if he was playing above his head to win a NBA championship but now that he has one, he relaxes. The Spurs can't forget Oberto was horrible for long stretches before this championship run.

3. He's 32, 6'9'', as unathletic as they come and has no consistant jumper. The truth is he was an overachiever and fortunate even at that to be a starting center on a championship team. Some guys get away with being 6'9'' at center but not without being burly or having some athleticism - at least on a top 7 team.

4. On that note, Oberto can't matchup against certain people/teams. That's a pretty big knock.

5. The Spurs made Oberto and not the other way around. Oberto did what he did because of his surroundings and the great talent stretching system Pop uses. He helped the Spurs with his back tips and by making his open layups, but that can be replaced.

6. The Spurs need a shotblocker. The Spurs defense is awesome, but they would be a lot better if there starting center could block 1.5 shots/game.

Against those points, you can say Oberto knows the system and fits it well, Manu is his friend and plays great with him, and the Spurs have let go of people before and its burned them.

To that I reply other people have known the system and will pick it up again. Manu does have a great repoire with Oberto, but he would probably develop a great passing relationship with a more athletic center. Third, Oberto isn't a clutch young dead-eye like Steven Jackson or a young, hustling Malik Rose that can effectively guard all types of difficult covers - from Shaq to Dirk. Although Rose's value can be questioned, what can't is that Oberto has neither the age or potential of either when the Spurs let them go.

What I don't know is the other available options for the Spurs at center/converted PF. This could change my degree of conviction, but in the end I still believe you let Oberto walk. He won't burn you if he goes to a WC rival and the Spurs have to look to improve at the center spot.

It's not that I disagree with win now mode. It's that I think Oberto is very far from solidifying the win now mode translates to winning in 07-08.

[Bruno]

I think that unless the Spurs let Oberto and Finley walk, there is no way they will use the MLE. Holt isn't going to okay the idea of going millions over the luxury tax threshold.

The luxury tax for next year is a real concern to me too.
I think Spurs will try to do a S&T with Barry for a SF instead than spending the MLE on a fre agent because of that. Trading Beno for a trade exception can too help Spurs.

Somethign to notice about the luxury tax : being above the threshold will be less painfull for an owner than last year because teams won't play less luxury tax next year than alst year. This year the penalty for being $1 above the threshold was $2M, next year it should be around $1M.

[Marcus Bryant]

Resigning Oberto to another deal seems like a bad move to me. I'll be the first to admit, he was vital to this championship one. He played way above his head and made smart/timley plays throughout the playoffs. But 3m on the books for 3 more years with Oberto isn't wise.

Why I think this:

1. Resigning Oberto doesn't mean the Spurs are in a great position to win the coming championship. The Spurs will probably have to meet Dallas in 07-08 and they barely escaped Phoenix who looks like they are revamping their team. Resigning Oberto keeps the Spurs stagnant, old, and unathletic.

Yet the Spurs' postseason success is predicated on executing well in the halfcourt more than anything else. When it comes to athleticism, I think that matters more on the perimeter than in the frontcourt.

[AFBlue]

If your best rebuttal is stating when I joined the Spurs Forum as if I was born on 7-23-2006, you're not worth debating. I don't know if it's ever occured to you that I lived in San Antonio my whole life, followed the Spurs my whole life, and didn't find this little community of Spurs fans until I was forced to live outside the Beloved State of Texas and had to seek out fellow Spurs fans on the internet.

Contrary to the opinion of Whottt the reject, I was NOT born yesterday...


To piggyback,

On your first statement regarding Rasho and Nazr on paper.....On Paper they made TWICE what Oberto made, so that is what made them expendable. Were Oberto's # that much better than Nazr or Rasho? So that argument is moot.

To your second point....I think Scola is MORE TALENTED than Oberto and he deserves a chance to see if he can be more productive on this level.

If I had a choice between offering a long-term (3yr or more) contract to a 31yr old with no athleticism and limited skill (even if he is a team guy), and offering a similar length contract for likely less money to a MORE TALENTED (and this is NOT speculation, with Oberto himself calling Scola better!) player who is younger and seeing how he'll fit into the system....

I'm taking the younger, more talented guy with the smaller contract....

[whottt]

So put James White (!) on the Hedo burrito diet.


No...because he's still a 2 guard...and I want to see him dunk.

[whottt]

If your best rebuttal is stating when I joined the Spurs as if I was born on 7-23-2006, you're not worth debating. I don't know if it's ever occured to you that I lived in San Antonio my whole life, followed the Spurs my whole life, and didn't find this little community of Spurs fans until I was forced to live outside the Beloved State of Texas and had to seek out fellow Spurs fans on the internet.

Contrary to the opinion of Whottt the reject, I was NOT born yesterday...


Ok...tell me what Scola said the night he was drafted..........after being drafted.

[ChumpDumper]

No...because he's still a 2 guard...and I want to see him dunk.So who then?

[Solid D]

Chump, I know you said FA. You must still await what presents itself in the draft and stir the results into the soup. Also, I wasn't suggesting Fazekas as a 1st rounder...he may be there at #33 in one of the deeper drafts for college players in recent memory.

[whottt]

There's no SF in the draft that the Spurs can get that fits that mold.

Trade who? The Spurs don't have much to entice teams to give up a player who would fit on the Spurs as a Long Three.

Step out of fantasy world and enter real world.

Tanks.

:smokin


You're wrong...there are some teams looking to move SF's to fill a need instead of facing playing time issues...and there aren't many teams seeking to aquire one.

I can't tell you right now Chicago has chemistry issues due to their glut at SF. Any of their SF's would be more of a must sign to me than Bonner..or Scola.

[AFBlue]

Ok...tell me what Scola said the night he was drafted..........after being drafted.

Educate me Almight Whottt.... :rolleyes

Tell me the thing he said that let you know right then, by that one statement, what kind of character he had....

[ChumpDumper]

Chump, I know you said FA. You must still await what presents itself in the draft and stir the results into the soup. Also, I wasn't suggesting Fazekas as a 1st rounder...he may be there at #33 in one of the deeper drafts for college players in recent memory.I'd be fine with him at #33 if we got a backup point or a long SF with #28.

[timvp]

Fazekas I never really liked but I watched him some more and his rebounding ability to go along with his shot making ability I think could make him an NBA player. If the Spurs think Bonner's asking price is too high, Fazekas could be a good replacement.

Good point :smokin

Yeah, I think Fazekas could fit the Bonner role if Bonner is let go.

Going forward, the Spurs need a bigman in the fold who can replace Horry's ability to spread the floor. Be that Bonner or someone like Fazekas.

[El_Mago]

Let's see:

The Spurs should let Oberto walk.

He will not be worth jeopardizing the 08 plan.

Believe me, the Spurs do have an 08 plan and are planning on sticking to it (whether it involves Oberto at a price they feel will not jeopardize their plan or not).

The Spurs draft a Euro with #28.

Stash the Euro away for a year, whether it be Koponen, Fernandez, Belinelli, etc....

They can sign him a year from now when the Spurs have the cash with the cap room.

Draft Nick Fazekas with the 33.

He is the younger version of Oberto. Not very athletic, can rebound, score, soft hands, high IQ, and is aggressive.

Fazekas would come cheap and not make a huge dent on the 08 plan.

The Spurs can start Elson, bring off Butler, and here and there throw in Fazekas for insurance purposes.

[whottt]

Educate me Almight Whottt.... :rolleyes

Tell me the thing he said that let you know right then, by that one statement, what kind of character he had....



You see...if you had been here, I wouldn't have to tell you.



He bitched about getting drafted in the second round.

I can't recall the exact quote but it was something along the lines of I wish I hadn't been drafted since I didn't get taken in the first round. Obviously...this was related to his buyout.

Now even if you don't see the character flaw inherent in that statement...you have to at least acknowledge that it's kind of a stupid statement to make publicly, that serves no productive purpose....it's just simple whining and pouting.

[timvp]

You're wrong...there are some teams looking to move SF's to fill a need instead of facing playing time issues...and there aren't many teams seeking to aquire one.

I can't tell you right now Chicago has chemistry issues due to their glut at SF. Any of their SF's would be more of a must sign to me than Bonner..or Scola.

:blah

Name some names. Who is available and what would you offer?

Thanks.

[timvp]

With Oberto opting out, that means that if Splitter is available at 28, you probably gotta take him. Fazekas at 33 would be a nice pick. McRoberts at 28?

Perhaps.

[ChumpDumper]

Yeah, I think Fazekas could fit the Bonner role if Bonner is let go.

Going forward, the Spurs need a bigman in the fold who can replace Horry's ability to spread the floor. Be that Bonner or someone like Fazekas.Yeah, we just need one -- even if they apparently aren't clutch -- since Horry's minutes will continue to drop.

[whottt]

:blah

Name some names. Who is available and what would you offer?

Thanks.


For the 1 trillionth time...

Chicago and Golden State both have a glut at SF and not enough minutes to go around...and they don't want to part with their main SF's...and no one is going to give them much for their deep bench SF's.


Just tell me...who is our competion for Kryhapa, or Pietrus? How much are those teams willing to give? What do they have to give?


And what we have available is Butler, Mahinimi, Scola, Sanikidze, Barry(depending on what Finley does) and Beno...not to mention 3 draft picks.

[ChumpDumper]

Just tell me...who is our competion for Kryhapa, or Pietrus? How much are those teams willing to give? What do they have to give? Well the Daily News says the Raptors are putting aside their MLE for Pietrus.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/2007/06/24/2007-06-24_the_lonely_wolf.html

[spurscenter]

Oberto will probably sign a 3-year/$10M deal with the Spurs. He probably only opted out to get years.


if you were oberto, you would do the same thing. Everyone just relax.

Pop will talk to him and manu and things will work itself out.

Oberto did the right move for Oberto and thats that.

If he leaves, he leaves a champion.

stop talking shit about him

[timvp]

For the 1 trillionth time...

Chicago and Golden State both have a glut at SF and not enough minutes to go around...and they don't want to part with their main SF's...and no one is going to give them much for their deep bench SF's.


Just tell me...who is our competion for Kryhapa, or Pietrus? How much are those teams willing to give? What do they have to give?


And what we have available is Butler, Mahinimi, Scola, Sanikidze, Barry(depending on what Finley does) and Beno...not to mention 3 draft picks.

Khryapa? :lol

Yeah, he's decent but I don't even know if he's better than James White.

Pietrus is going to get max MLE offers. You down with that?

[whottt]

Well the Daily News says the Raptors are putting aside their MLE for Pietrus.


And Pietrus is saying he wants to play for a winner....and wants to play for the Spurs. Still lots of stuff doable here...and GS still has a SF glut.

[El_Mago]

With Oberto opting out, that means that if Splitter is available at 28, you probably gotta take him. Fazekas at 33 would be a nice pick. McRoberts at 28?

Perhaps.

I was in favor of the Spurs trading up before the Oberto dilema and drafting either a point (Fernandez) or a long small forward (young).

However, now, I believe the Spurs could possibly shift to PF/C.

Now, I was going to mention Tiago as a possible pick (probably the best international PF in the draft), but I think he will be gone by the 28th.

However, I would be okay if the Spurs trade up and grab him and sign him (eventhough it would be a multi-year deal). The reason I would be okay is because he has the potential, youth, and skills to become a above average player....unlike Oberto who is old, and already tapped his potential level.

Yet, I don't believe that scenario plays out.

The best best would probably be the Spurs going international with the 28th and stashing him away, and going with Fazekas at a cheap contract.

OR....

The Spurs roll the dice and bring in Ian, and then take a domestic PG (dowdell) with the 28th.

[whottt]

Khryapa? :lol

Yeah, he's decent but I don't even know if he's better than James White.

At worst he's Matt Bonner at the SF position. He's in the most talented SF rotation in the NBA(except for maybe the Suns).



Pietrus is going to get max MLE offers. You down with that?


Pietrus also wants to play for the Spurs...maybe he'll take less...

And why can't we do a S&T for him anyway? Thus saving our MLE...

[ChumpDumper]

And Pietrus is saying he wants to play for a winner.Toronto arleady won their division and look to do more next season.
and wants to play for the Spurs.I remember Jack saying he would never play for any coach but Pop, too.
Still lots of stuff doable here...and GS still has a SF glut.With the lineups Nelly runs? Not really.

[timvp]

Pietrus also wants to play for the Spurs...maybe he'll take less...

How much less? I'm not too comfortable giving Pietrus much more than a four-year, $20M contract ... but that doesn't even come close to a full MLE offer.

And didn't you just post the other day that you don't want Pietrus?

[whottt]

How much less? I'm not too comfortable giving Pietrus much more than a four-year, $20M contract ... but that doesn't even come close to a full MLE offer.

You know...I just don't know, there is no accounting for stupid teams.








And didn't you just post the other day that you don't want Pietrus?

Hmmm...I don't think that was me...and if it was, it's more a case of there are other SF's I would rather try to get first. Nocioni, Kyrhapa...Barnes, etc.

[picnroll]

Summer was getting boring. Nice to finally have something to panic over.

[MannyIsGod]

Dude, you're as much a fucking idiot as ever. Second sentence = sarcasm.

Go back in your hole, little dude.:lol

Yeah, I'm the idiot Mr. "The Spurs will never land a forgien free agent due to Javawho?"

[MannyIsGod]

if you were oberto, you would do the same thing. Everyone just relax.

Pop will talk to him and manu and things will work itself out.

Oberto did the right move for Oberto and thats that.

If he leaves, he leaves a champion.

stop talking shit about himNo one is talking shit about Oberto. I don't know where you and Ploto get off with this bullshit.

Spurs fans want him to stay.

[timvp]

In this weak FA class, some team is going to offer Pietrus a max MLE deal. He'll get his 5-year, $35M offer from someone.

I don't even want the Spurs competing with that for a player like Pietrus who is good but not good enough to warrant that type of commitment.

Nocioni is a long shot. Barnes is going to be overpaid. Khryapa isn't really worth trading for.

Perhaps the only person on the market that makes sense is Posey. But after his DUI recently, he might already be crossed off the list.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

If Oberto leaves, trade for Camby! :smokin

[whottt]

Toronto arleady won their division and look to do more next season.

They couldn't beat GS.


I remember Jack saying he would never play for any coach but Pop, too.

That was dfferent...can't you tell?



With the lineups Nelly runs? Not really.


Yes really...even Nelly...I am sure he loves beating the Mavs...but would probably like to beat someone else(other than Toronto).

[timvp]

If Oberto leaves, trade for Camby! :smokin

I feel sorry for whatever team ends up trading for Camby. No telling how many games an aging Camby will miss per season.

[whottt]

Nocioni is a long shot. Barnes is going to be overpaid. Khryapa isn't really worth trading for.
.

Kryhapa would have been getting minutes ahead of Finley and Barry if he'd been on this team.

[ChumpDumper]

They couldn't beat GS. :lol So you're saying he wouldn't go to Dallas for a full MLE deal.
That was dfferent...can't you tell? Not different at all. Players lie.
Yes really.Nah. it's Nelly.

[AFBlue]

Kryhapa would have been getting minutes ahead of Finley and Barry if he'd been on this team.

You're making comments like this and you question the validity of MY arguments.... :lol

[Man In Black]

I'm down with White Fundamental Nick Fazekas.

Obby can stay or go. His skills fit well with what the Spurs do and contrary to the opinion that what Obby does can be trained to other bigs, THEY HAVE TO WANT TO WORK AT IT. That was the problem that both Rasho and Nazr had, while they had the physical tool neccesary, they lacked the mental tenacity. I mean would those guys have stood in to take a hit from JHO that caused their heartbeat to go out of whack? Hell naw, they would've puffed up their cheeks and then fallen down.

But the combination of the Big 3 plus the SYSTEM, makes the Spurs go. I truly feel that if the Spurs got 1 other AS level player, that they could win a title using the Big 4 and the merry minimum plan.

[timvp]

Kryhapa would have been getting minutes ahead of Finley and Barry if he'd been on this team.

Khryapa has had trouble getting playing time with players like Richie Frahm and Charles Smith ahead of him. Are we talking about the same Khryapa?

[picnroll]

Linton Johnson could be a place holder for a year.

[whottt]

:lol So you're saying he wouldn't go to Dallas for a full MLE deal.
Hi stupid...I knew you'd be showing up soon.




Not different at all.

Completely different...Jack was euphoric.



Players lie.

And you think he's lying about saying he wants to play for the Spurs?

Why would he lie about that?



Nah. it's Nelly.

No...it's Nelly playing what he has and doing well with it...not playing what he wants...and if I'm wrong, I guess he'll be staying with GS, right?

[stxspurs]

anything over 3mil is too much for fabby. even though he was good at times his performance during the season wasnt more than 5pts maybe and about 6 in the playoffs. i would like for him to stay but not at a crazy price.
we dont want to mess up our cash for next offseason

[whottt]

Khryapa has had trouble getting playing time with players like Richie Frahm and Charles Smith ahead of him. Are we talking about the same Khryapa?

He's got Luol Deng, Tyrus Thomas and Adres Noccioni ahead of him...

If that's not the best SF rotation in the NBA...it's damn close.

And Portland didn't want to trade him.

[Solid D]

Linton Johnson could be a place holder for a year.

No thanks. I'd rather the Spurs call Administaff and get a temp from them.

[Mr. Body]

Linton Johnson could be a place holder for a year.

Yikes.

[Kori Ellis]

if you were oberto, you would do the same thing. Everyone just relax.

Pop will talk to him and manu and things will work itself out.

Oberto did the right move for Oberto and thats that.

If he leaves, he leaves a champion.

stop talking shit about him

Are you telling me to stop talking shit about him??? (You quoted me, so I assume so.)

Where did I talk shit? I just said he'll get a standard offer from the Spurs and take it or not.

I don't really care one way or another.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

If Oberto leaves, cue Jackie Butler.

[timvp]

And you think he's lying about saying he wants to play for the Spurs?

Why would he lie about that?

Pietrus said it while on Tony Parker's French radio show. What did you expect him to say?

Parker: "Yo best friend buddy ol' pal, you should come play with me in San Antonio next year!"

Pietrus: "No I'm going to the team that offers me the most money."

Parker: "Ok."

:rollin

[zekes]

Hell naw, they would've puffed up their cheeks and then fallen down.

:lol That just gave me a funny flashback to Rasho.

[whottt]

You're making comments like this and you question the validity of MY arguments.... :lol


Um...Finley sucked for just about all of the regular season and Pop hates Barry....he'd have played ahead of them if he'd been here, the fact that Barry actually was playing ahead of Finley(without Finley being hosplitalized) after the AS break is indicative of this...he's a better defensive player than either of them...way better. That counts with Pop...

And question the validity of my arguments all you want...just know the Spurs aren't exactly thrilled with Scola and I'd say about 90% of that is because of comments he has been making pretty much every offseason since they drafted him.

[whottt]

Pietrus hates the Spurs and there's absolute no reason he could conceivably want to play here


My bad...how could I not realize that...

[timvp]

I didn't know Pietrus made those comments on Parker's radio show.

[ChumpDumper]

Hi stupid...I knew you'd be showing up soon.Are you saying it or not? Just answer the question. Would Pietrus turn down a full MLE deal from Dallas just because they were beaten by Golden State?


Completely different...Jack was euphoric.Maybe Pietrus was high.


And you think he's lying about saying he wants to play for the Spurs?

Why would he lie about that?Who knows? Maybe he would like to. Maybe not. Whatever the case, it's HIGHLY doubtful he would play fewer minutes in SA for less money.


No...it's Nelly playing what he has and doing well with it...not playing what he wants...and if I'm wrong, I guess he'll be staying with GS, right?If they want him back, it's their choice. Certainly they would match an I-want-to-play-with-the-Spurs discount offer. They have no tax issues and plenty of roster spots to fill.

[whottt]

Pietrus: losing>winning


Got it :tu

[pad300]

With Oberto opting out, that means that if Splitter is available at 28, you probably gotta take him. Fazekas at 33 would be a nice pick. McRoberts at 28?

Perhaps.

If either McRoberts or Splitter is available at 28 (barring Car accidents or other injury between now and the draft), you take them - even if Oberto didn't opt out... That pair has real talent. In most drafts (say 2006) they would be lottery picks (leaving aside buyout issues for Splitter). At 28 you grab and say thank you...

Fazekas is interesting. At 33, with Oberto opting out, assuming we didn't pick another big at #28, he's a serious option. He's a really good shooter, likes to play high post (matching well with Duncan playing low post). They key is can he defend against NBA caliber atheletes?

[Bruno]

The rumor about Pietrus wanting to go in SA started before the radio show with Parker.

[whottt]

Are you saying it or not? Just answer the question. Would Pietrus turn down a full MLE deal from Dallas just because they were beaten by Golden State?

Maybe Pietrus was high.

Who knows? Maybe he would like to. Maybe not. Whatever the case, it's HIGHLY doubtful he would play fewer minutes in SA for less money.

If they want him back, it's their choice. Certainly they would match an I-want-to-play-with-the-Spurs discount offer. They have no tax issues and plenty of roster spots to fill.



Going to go see 1408...I'll be back later, and since irridium has a slow decay rate...I imagine we'll be able to pick this up at that time with you not having changed much...

TTFN

[timvp]

The rumor about Pietrus wanting to go in SA started before the radio show with Parker.

Link?

And how much would you pay Pietrus to join the Spurs?

And how long before whottt jumps back on or off the Pietrus bandwagon?

Thanks.

[ChumpDumper]

What need does Pietrus fill?

[ChumpDumper]

I surrender.

[AFBlue]

So what was the amount of the qualifying offer that the Spurs matched in order to prevent him from being an outright FA?

In other words, what will he be making if no team offers him a contract and the Spurs don't offer him an extension?

[whottt]

I don't have any problems whatsoever beliving Pietrus wants to play for the Spurs...

Now how badly he wants that is up to debate...but however much that is...that hardly qualifies him as a liar.

[ChumpDumper]

So what was the amount of the qualifying offer that the Spurs matched in order to prevent him from being an outright FA?

In other words, what will he be making if no team offers him a contract and the Spurs don't offer him an extension?$3.125 million

[AFBlue]

$3.125 million

Thanks...

[Marcus Bryant]

You can hope that by now NBA GM's would be wise enough to avoid overpaying a 3rd year swingman with promise but mixed early performance. But someone always flinches...

[Bruno]

Link?



http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=63937&highlight=pietrus



And how much would you pay Pietrus to join the Spurs?

I'm not a fan of him at all. I wouldn't give him more than a $12M/3 years contract. I would be shocked if a team offer him a full MLE contract and I would hate it if this team is SA.

[joeyjfive]

I really hope Oberto doesnt go to the damn Mavs, Oberto guards Tim everyday in practice and did a good job on him in Fiba. This would give the Mavs an even better chance of beating the Spurs, IMHO.

[Marcus Bryant]

I really hope Oberto doesnt go to the damn Mavs, Oberto guards Tim everyday in practice and did a good job on him in Fiba. This would give the Mavs an even better chance of beating the Spurs, IMHO.

So if you're Donn Nelson you make the call.

[El_Mago]

If either McRoberts or Splitter is available at 28 (barring Car accidents or other injury between now and the draft), you take them - even if Oberto didn't opt out... That pair has real talent. In most drafts (say 2006) they would be lottery picks (leaving aside buyout issues for Splitter). At 28 you grab and say thank you...

Fazekas is interesting. At 33, with Oberto opting out, assuming we didn't pick another big at #28, he's a serious option. He's a really good shooter, likes to play high post (matching well with Duncan playing low post). They key is can he defend against NBA caliber atheletes?

Fazekas is not a huge physical presence on the defensive end.

In the past, Fazekas has been noted as being soft, but he has come off aggressive this past year playing for Nevada. He can block shots, but he is not a blocking machine.

[Solid D]

Going to go see 1408...I'll be back later...

Room 1408? Are you sure you'll be back?

[timvp]

http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=63937&highlight=pietrus


I don't see a Pietrus quote in there. Looks to me like a French person linking anyone French to play with Parker.

Then again, my French is a little rusty. :hat


I'm not a fan of him at all. I wouldn't give him more than a $12M/3 years contract. I would be shocked if a team offer him a full MLE contract and I would hate it if this team is SA.

Yeah, there's no way a $12M/3 year contract will be enough to get Pietrus. I'm with you in regards to not wanting the Spurs to spend close to what it'd take to land him.

[picnroll]

Maybe Spurs can use Oberto in a S&T if it comes to it.

[pad300]

Fazekas is not a huge physical presence on the defensive end.

In the past, Fazekas has been noted as being soft, but he has come off aggressive this past year playing for Nevada. He can block shots, but he is not a blocking machine.

I know he's not going to be a "physical presence" neither is Horry or Oberto or Bonner - The question is can he be at the right spots on the floor in the Spurs scheme, and not be overpowered. It's not like Any of our bigs outside Tim is a "huge physical presence" since the Admiral retired, and we have won 2 championships. The question is he going to become a victim/weak point in our defensive scheme that other teams will attack continuously - eg. A Spurs version of Steve Nash on the Suns; they have to rearrange themselves on the defensive end to hide him every possession.

[ChumpDumper]

What need does Pietrus fill?

[bigdog]

Maybe Spurs can use Oberto in a S&T if it comes to it.

not if someone else offers oberto more $$$ than the Spurs would want to give him. the Spurs dont exactly want to spend too much money, and if Oberto signs an offer sheet with another team, the Spurs might not be able (or want to) match it. I think Oberto is a goner. This was probably the best time for him to shine, and other teams I'm sure have noticed. His agent will probably try to get him alot more money, and he will end up somewhere else. bring in Butler

[picnroll]

not if someone else offers oberto more $$$ than the Spurs would want to give him. the Spurs dont exactly want to spend too much money, and if Oberto signs an offer sheet with another team, the Spurs might not be able (or want to) match it. I think Oberto is a goner. This was probably the best time for him to shine, and other teams I'm sure have noticed. His agent will probably try to get him alot more money, and he will end up somewhere else. bring in Butler
Spurs could offer up to MLE and trade him and Oberto isn't gettting more than MLE, guaranteed. Once he signs Spurs can shop him and the contract around. Maybe they see an attractive player with a year left on their contract that would fill a need, like a backup PG or long 3, and still fit in the '08 plan.

[Marcus Bryant]

Oberto is the best center the Spurs have had since DRob retired. Consider the price tag of other would-be DRob replacements...

Nesterovic 6 years/ $42 mil expiring in '09 , $7.3 mil in 2006-07
Mohammed 5 years/$32 mil expiring in '11, $5.2 mil in 2006-07

[TMTTRIO]

doesn't Oberto have the same agent Manu. I don't know if I like this. I remember the agent tried very hard to get Manu this huge deal with Denver even though Manu told his agent he wanted to stay. I wonder if Manu's talked to Fab about it.

[timvp]

Oberto is the best center the Spurs have had since DRob retired. Consider the price tag of other would-be DRob replacements...

Nesterovic 6 years/ $42 mil expiring in '09 , $7.3 mil in 2006-07
Mohammed 5 years/$32 mil expiring in '11, $5.2 mil in 2006-07

Exactly. The price tag for a center who can walk and chew gum is higher than what Spurs fans are speculating so far.

Hopefully the fact that Oberto is older, non-athletic and more of a system player makes him unappealing to other teams. But I wouldn't exactly count on it.

[Darkwaters]

doesn't Oberto have the same agent Manu. I don't know if I like this. I remember the agent tried very hard to get Manu this huge deal with Denver even though Manu told his agent he wanted to stay. I wonder if Manu's talked to Fab about it.

Frankly, the team that concerns me is Chicago. If PJ Brown decides to retire then they might be looking for a player to bring veteran leadership. Add into the equation the fact that Nocioni is there and it might interest Fabs.

[Marcus Bryant]

Exactly. The price tag for a center who can walk and chew gum is higher than what Spurs fans are speculating so far.

Hopefully the fact that Oberto is older, non-athletic and more of a system player makes him unappealing to other teams. But I wouldn't exactly count on it.

Other teams know what Oberto meant to the Spurs in the postseason. Picking off Oberto would be a nice summer move. In addition, his game fits in well with other contenders...

Phoenix - Oberto doesn't need the ball to be effective. Good passer, good at finding the open seam to flash to the basket, and pulling down the timely offensive board. Plug him in as the garbage man up front with Amare.

Dallas - Rationale along the same lines as Phoenix. Oberto knows how to play great team defense.

Utah - He'd fit in well up front with Boozer. Current Utah offensive schemes are oriented towards a perimeter oriented 5, but that can change.

Cleveland - Should they lose Varejao in free agency Oberto would be a nice fit.

Houston - Wouldn't be bad up front with Yao.

And then others...

Lakers - Jackson loves smart big game players.

[ArgSpursFan]

Frankly, the team that concerns me is Chicago. If PJ Brown decides to retire then they might be looking for a player to bring veteran leadership. Add into the equation the fact that Nocioni is there and it might interest Fabs.

thats fine.They can keep him,and we get Nocioni. :cooldevil

[AFBlue]

Frankly, the team that concerns me is Chicago. If PJ Brown decides to retire then they might be looking for a player to bring veteran leadership. Add into the equation the fact that Nocioni is there and it might interest Fabs.

And PJ Brown is also technically a FA, so even if he did come back there's no guarantee that it would be to the Bulls. They are also losing Michael Sweetney. Losing that amount of depth, no matter how untalented, has to hurt.

I could definitely see the Bulls go after Oberto with some MLE...

[Fabbs]

Door/butt to both Oberto and Finley if they try getting years and bucks from the Spurs. Sincere thanks for going 1-2 on Championships and hasta.
As earlier posts have noted, it's the Spurs that made Fabs, not vice versa.
If he can get on a contending team and contribute to a Finals again, best wishes. I think they both should stay on the Spurs for the hometown price and title for one more year. Fabs could still get his new contract after that and Finley, don't make us laugh anymore on the money front.

[Marcus Bryant]

I'll add that since the Spurs remain the postseason bogeyman for both the Suns and Mavs, both of those teams might also target Oberto to give hope to their respective fanbases. Given the postseason the Mavs had, they might be a little more willing to throw a big offer at Oberto.

[ChumpDumper]

Other teams know what Oberto meant to the Spurs in the postseason.Well, what did he mean really? Will his nonperformance against Phoenix have any influence on GMs' decisions, for example?

It's difficult to point at any one thing and say "that's what we need Oberto for."

I think Houston would be the last place he ends up. They want to be more athletic.

[AFBlue]

Other teams know what Oberto meant to the Spurs in the postseason. Picking off Oberto would be a nice summer move. In addition, his game fits in well with other contenders...

Phoenix - Oberto doesn't need the ball to be effective. Good passer, good at finding the open seam to flash to the basket, and pulling down the timely offensive board. Plug him in as the garbage man up front with Amare.

Dallas - Rationale along the same lines as Phoenix. Oberto knows how to play great team defense.

Utah - He'd fit in well up front with Boozer. Current Utah offensive schemes are oriented towards a perimeter oriented 5, but that can change.

Cleveland - Should they lose Varejao in free agency Oberto would be a nice fit.

Houston - Wouldn't be bad up front with Yao.

And then others...

Lakers - Jackson loves smart big game players.


I know the Raps can't have him and Pietrus, but they don't have any inside defenders outside of Rasho, and we all know about their affinity for international players of late.

S&T, Oberto for Graham + filler...throw in Beno if you want.