Ludden: Barry's troubles in deep

[Kori Ellis]

Barry's troubles in deep
Web Posted: 12/06/2004 12:00 AM CST

Johnny Ludden
Express-News Staff Writer

http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/basketball/nba/spurs/stories/MYSA120604.1D.BKNspurs.bulls.adv.c5a3de22.html

CHICAGO — Brent Barry has weathered the occasional slump in his 10-season NBA career. The kind of 2-for-11 night where his shot feels a little off. Or where he needs longer than usual to find his rhythm.

But this? Barry hasn't hit a 3-pointer in six consecutive games, a big 0 for 17.

With Barry still adjusting to his new team's defensive philosophies, Spurs coach Gregg Popovich recently has given some of his minutes to Devin Brown. Barry, who played six minutes in Friday's victory over Detroit, doesn't blame him.

"It's basically on me," Barry said. "It's just a mental challenge for me to settle down.

"If a guy is in a slump, nobody wants to give him a high five because they're afraid it will rub off on them.

"I'll just find my way out of it, and we'll go from there."

Barry knew there would be a transition after spending the previous five seasons in Seattle. But he thought he left his shooting woes in the preseason. He made at least one 3-pointer in 11 of the first 12 games while averaging 9.9points.

As it turned out, the worst was yet to come. For the season, he has made 29.9 percent of his 3-point attempts. He shot 45.2percent last season, second-best in the league.

More than one factor may be contributing to the decline. Barry has played most of his recent minutes without Tim Duncan, whose ability to draw double-teams opens up shots for others. He also has had to adjust to not having the ball in his hands as much as he did with Seattle.

When Barry plays with the second unit, most of his shots come out of the offensive flow. And he and Beno Udrih, the backup point guard, are learning how to play with each other.

"There's no doubt I've gotten great attempts and great looks at the basket," Barry said. "I just think I'm pressing too much and putting too much pressure on myself."

'Not going to jail'


Though Barry's easygoing nature fits well in the locker room, he can be his own worst critic. After watching Barry hang his head one too many times in Wednesday's victory over Philadelphia, Popovich gave him a pep talk.
"He needs to lighten up, get over it and realize when he misses a jumper, he's not going to jail," Popovich said. "His contract doesn't stop. He still gets to go home to his family, and life goes on.

"The sooner he figures that out, the better he'll play."

Brown was the first guard off the bench against the Sixers, but Popovich gave Barry a brief opportunity in the second quarter the past two games. He stuck with Brown, who has averaged 14.4 points the past five games, in the second half.

"I feel like I have to make every shot, that that's what I'm supposed to do," Barry said. "And it's just not that way.

"Now, I've got to start back at square one and try and earn back some minutes by playing, first of all, better on the defensive end. Then, hopefully, my offensive game will find itself again."

Other end of court


If Barry figured to struggle anywhere, it was on defense. He turns 33 at the end of the month and wasn't considered a good individual defender at 23.
Though Barry doesn't seem to fit with Popovich's you-play-defense-or-you-don't play philosophy, Danny Ferry and Steve Kerr came to the Spurs with similar reputations and at a similar age. Both played quality team defense after they learned the Spurs' system.

"Even with Danny and Steve it took them a whole season to figure some of this stuff out," Popovich said. "The phase Brent's in now is, when he makes a mistake he realizes it. That's good. At the beginning he didn't even know what ... he did wrong.

"That's the important phase; it will help condition himself to get it right. If he can't do that, he just can't be on the floor."

Popovich has little doubt Barry will prove to be as valuable as the Spurs thought when they signed him to a four-year contract worth a little less than $20 million. His passing and selflessness already have been contagious. Sean Elliott, who played 11 seasons with the Spurs before becoming their TV analyst, said he can't remember the team moving the ball better.

Barry also helped close out Friday's victory over the Pistons with a pair of free throws after coming off the bench cold with 7.9 seconds left.

"Offensively, he's in a little bit of a funk that's self-imposed," Popovich said. "But we're not in a funk about it.

"This hasn't diminished what I believe he's going to be for us. He's just going through a little bit of a rough spot."

If there's been any consolation for Barry, it's that his poor shooting hasn't hurt the team: The Spurs carry a seven-game winning streak into tonight's game with the Chicago Bulls.

His teammates also haven't stopped looking for him.

"We want him to shoot every shot he gets, and I think there's no better support than that," Duncan said. "We know what kind of shooter he is. We know what he's capable of. It's only a matter of time before he gets it going."

[anonymous poster]

you know, that's a great point, play brent barry while Tim is on the floor. Position him on the block where Tim is and when he's getting doubled, kick it out to Brent. It'll give him an open shot and if he starts hitting them, everything else will follow.

[ducks]

"There's no doubt I've gotten great attempts and great looks at the basket," Barry said. "I just think I'm pressing too much and putting too much pressure on myself."

[Jimcs50]

Maybe the Starbucks coffee in SA is the problem. Someone make a trip up to Seattle and get him the good stuff.

Have you guys noticed a trend lately? Used to be, when players came to SA, they would have their best 3 pt shooting of their careers(Bowen, Smith) but lately, the players have been HORRIBLE here.(Hedo, Barry, Horry)

[Jimcs50]

More than one factor may be contributing to the decline. Barry has played most of his recent minutes without Tim Duncan, whose ability to draw double-teams opens up shots for others. He also has had to adjust to not having the ball in his hands as much as he did with Seattle.


dejevu for Manu? Manu off the bench, Barry start?

[ducks]

is barry trying to play a hedo me have to start?

[T Park]

Pop's experiment failed miserably last year, and I doubt hell do it again this year.

Manu is the Starter, Barry come soff the bench.

Barry was playing in the first half with Duncan in Milwaukee and at home against Detroit so I dont understand that not playing with Duncan bs.

[Solid D]

is barry trying to play a hedo me have to start?

?

[boutons]

"Have you guys noticed a trend lately?"

Yes, and it's extremely mysterious, like the collapse vs Lakers.

I can see Barry taking a few months to learn how to play (Spurs') defense, but WTF is so hard about hitting the shots at a %age that has distinguished his, and the others', entire career?

I hope this shuts up the boring "we need a shooter" crowd, once they realize it takes 2 years for a new player to re-learn how to hit the side of the SBC after joining the Spours (if then).

The 15-3 Spurs are again, like last year, hitting a very respectable team FG%:

1 LAC 0.483
2 UTA 0.479
3 PHX 0.474 << 60 dunks by Amare
4 MIA 0.467
5 MIN 0.463
6 SAS 0.462
7
8
9
9 SEA 0.451 <<<< a team of "shooters"

[ducks]

hedo had to start because if he did not he did not have confidence

it was reported here

barry should be able to come off the bench and produce
he is playing 2 string not first string

[BigVee]

Defense has never been a Spurs problem in the playoffs. What was the .04 game, something in the low 70's, right? Pop should quit talking about Barry not being on the floor if the D isn't perfect. Because of Pop's obsession with the defense, a great shooter who misses becomes worthless to Pop and finds himself back on the bench. He isn't Kerr and he isn't Smith, and he isn't Hedo. He can do much more than those guys did as Spurs. Will he? Don't know, but, he needs to play more than 6 minutes or 15 minutes....mostly at garbage time. And he can't be looking over his shoulder after every shot.

[Karl Mundt]

Brent and Devon for Hedo?

[GoSpurs21]

fact is Devin is just better right now and deserves to get the minutes

[Manu20]

Tonight against the Bulls Barry is going to be on fire. 5 for 5 from three point range.

SLUMP WILL BE OVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[2centsworth]

Devin Brown is turning into the man off the bench. Super strong, great defender, decent shooter, and a killer instinct. Brent is going to have problems finding playing time.

[ducks]

I would rather barry goes off against sonics then bulls

[CosmicCowboy]

damn it sucks to be a Spurs fan...

being so deep that it is hard to find Brent Barry minutes is a hell of a problem to have...:lol

[Jimcs50]

damn it sucks to be a Spurs fan...

being so deep that it is hard to find Brent Barry minutes is a hell of a problem to have...:lol


Kind of like you and me CC, when we have to decide which hottie loses out on going home with us, huh? :p

[CosmicCowboy]

Kind of like you and me CC, when we have to decide which hottie loses out on going home with us, huh?

well thanks to Shellys advise I have finally figured out the tie-breaker...once you have had the "no teeth special" there is just no going back...:lol

[exstatic]

Brent never had a Tim Duncan in the post in Seattle, either. Never stopped him from being a shooting machine. Nut it up, Brent.

[Jimcs50]

It will be good to watch Luol Deng play tonight, I was a fan of his play at Duke.

[Duff McCartney]

More than one factor may be contributing to the decline. Barry has played most of his recent minutes without Tim Duncan, whose ability to draw double-teams opens up shots for others. He also has had to adjust to not having the ball in his hands as much as he did with Seattle.

That's bullshit...he's been in with Tim, and he's had wide open looks and has missed them. Terribly. He's in a huge shooting slump and it has nothing to do with who he is playing with.

[CosmicCowboy]

t will be good to watch Luol Deng play tonight, I was a fan of his play at Duke.

I picked him up late in my fantasy basketball team...he has been doing OK but I am still hoping he gets better...he's been doing OK but I actually expected him to do better than he has....

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

I would argue that maybe with the second team we run some plays to get Barry shots. Maybe some baseline screens to get him free in the corner, something like that.

[Kori Ellis]

Barry needs to stop pressing on offense and learn how to play Spurs D, or we'll continue to see a lot more Devin than Barry. The Spurs are deep enough they don't need to risk playing him when he's not knocking anything down.

In the end, I think he'll be fine. But not playing with Duncan is a poor excuse for his shooting woes. As many already pointed out, there was no post presence in Seattle and he was second in the league in 3-pt FG% last season.

What sucks is this ... If he's already pressing when there's no real pressure, what's he going to do when the playoffs arrive?

[Solid D]

The Spurs are actually really good with both Brent and Devin in there together with Beno.

This lineup doest nottest stinketh:
Beno, Brent, Devin, Rose, Rasho.

Talk about getting the ball up court in .6 seconds, watch Devin and Brent leak out and run the wings after Rasho and Leaky get the ball to Beno.

[Kori Ellis]

I like that lineup, as well as that same one but Manu exchanged for Brent. Beno/Devin have a great chemistry on the court.

[picnroll]

In blowouts, when the Spurs reserves are getting garbage minutes, Barry should be looking for his shot, the go to guy, make them or not, until he gets it out of his system.

[BigVee]

I think he is pressing by the pressure being applied by his coach. Pop can say anything he wants, but yanking him and keeping him on the bench speaks much louder. Either is going to be there at playoff time or not. If he is, then he should be playing now. If not, fine. But you cannot expect him to play sproradic minutes, usually with a second unit, knowing that additional playing time depends on making shots and then not expect him to feel the pressure to not miss. I will say again, lack of defense did NOT knock the Spurs out of the playoffs last year.

[Kori Ellis]

Well Barry only got his minutes cut back in the last few games. He played over 20 minutes a game for the first 14 games of the season and was the first swingman off the bench. But he still wasn't knocking down shots.

And with Devin playing well in his limited minutes, you have to reward Devin with playing time.

[Manu20]

I just hope Barry does not end up on Pop's dog house like Malik last year.

I think it won't happen but you never know.

[BigVee]

I don't think it is about rewarding anyone for anything. It has always been about preparing for the playoffs. It is a chicken and egg thing. Did Brent start to drop off first or did the minutes or was it simultaneous. Pop is going to ruin this guy, and it will be a shame. Barry is not a role player, and if the Spurs thought they could bring him in to sit on the bench and drop some miracle threes, it aint goin happen. Bowen can sit and come in and play defense, but it is not the same with a shooter.

[Spurminator]

Can't be sure... It worked for Steve Kerr, after all.

[Kori Ellis]

Did Brent start to drop off first or did the minutes or was it simultaneous.

Again, Barry's minutes were only really cut back over the last few games (really majorly in just in the last two). He's shooting 29 percent from 3 on the season.

This is not on Pop -- it's on Barry.

[Solid D]

Big Vee, Pop rewards current behavior (including attitude) and results. I don't think Pop views Brent as just a shooter but as a "basketball" player with a high BBall IQ. Devin wasn't getting major minutes before 5 games ago against Utah. That's when the minutes changed in Devin's favor. Brent's lack of scoring and softer perimeter D coinciding with Devin giving Pop a choice for improvement is when the change was made. Very recent stuff.

[Solid D]

Good points, Kori.

[BigVee]

I hear you, I just don't agree. I don't see Brown's defense as that much better than Barry's. And I don't think a few games long enough for a fair analysis. Watch Barry's body language....he is becoming Hedo before our eyes. What is the common denominator for every guy that has gone through this? i.e. Rose, Barry, Smith, Horry, Hedo....Pop. It is not on Barry. You simply cannot produce under a microscope. Barry has long since passed the point of being motivated by internal competition. If this keeps on for much longer he will be a bust for the season. And then, when the real season starts, and the play is different and the ref's swallow their whistles in the fourth quarter, a discouraged and non-confident Barry will be asked to save the day when the offense is bogged down.

[Kori Ellis]

I don't see Brown's defense as that much better than Barry's

I guess we'll just disagree on that part.


And I don't think a few games long enough for a fair analysis.


How many games should the Spurs have waited? He was shooting 30 percent from 3 after 15 games -- that's about 1/5 of the season.

[Jimcs50]

barry will break out...I have faith.

[ChumpDumper]

You simply cannot produce under a microscope.Simply being in the NBA puts you under a microscope. Devin has definitely been under the same microscope and he's performing. Hedo was accomodated last season because there simply was no alternative.

This season there is.

[Manu20]

barry will break out...I have faith.

Starting with the Bulls tonight. 5 for 5 from 3 point land mark my words.

[Useruser666]

I hear you, I just don't agree. I don't see Brown's defense as that much better than Barry's. And I don't think a few games long enough for a fair analysis. Watch Barry's body language....he is becoming Hedo before our eyes. What is the common denominator for every guy that has gone through this? i.e. Rose, Barry, Smith, Horry, Hedo....Pop. It is not on Barry. You simply cannot produce under a microscope. Barry has long since passed the point of being motivated by internal competition. If this keeps on for much longer he will be a bust for the season. And then, when the real season starts, and the play is different and the ref's swallow their whistles in the fourth quarter, a discouraged and non-confident Barry will be asked to save the day when the offense is bogged down.

So should he get more minutes or first minutes over a better player like Hedo over Gino? Brown is a much better defender than Barry. I think he will get out of his slump after a while. Beno is playing well and so is Brown. I don't mind having these kind of problems.

[BigVee]

Well I guess the way I look at it is: If you are 3-12 maybe you should try something different. When you are 12-3 and you gave a proven veteran a $22 million contract you might want to wait a little longer. 10 year stats mean a bunch. I doubt if you signed a lifetime .300 hitter during the off season and after 30 games he was hitting .220 you would pull him out of the line-up. I have great respect for your knowledge of this game, but I totally disagree about this.

[CHAMPS AGAIN]

Kind of funny,I had just told my son if I want someone to make free throws at end of the game I want BARRY to be that player. He can miss 3ptrs. just don't miss free thows. BARRY will be back.

[ChumpDumper]

How long should we wait?

Til we fall behind Dallas?

[BigVee]

How long should we wait?

Til we fall behind Dallas?

You honestly feel that if Barry had more minutes the team will fall out of first place?

[Solid D]

Steve Kerr struggled off and on in his stints with the Spurs. He went out on a high note and Barry can too.

Devin's just been a beast lately, though.

[Kori Ellis]

I think Barry will come out of the slump very soon and I think he's a vital cog in the Spurs machine this year. But I just don't see any fault in cutting back his minutes a little bit when he can't hit a shot to save his life and Devin is coming on strong on both ends of the court.

[BigVee]

Okay, I'm done. I have just seen too many guys come to the Spurs and for whatever reason Pop gets down on them in a hurry....I just hate seeing it happening to Barry.

[Kori Ellis]

The list you made of guys Pop "put down" didn't make much sense. The only one on the list that was really valid was Malik.

[BigVee]

The list you made of guys Pop "put down" didn't make much sense. The only one on the list that was really valid was Malik.

Well I thought I was done. They make sense to me. Each was supposed to be an answer to a need. I could add Charley Ward to the list. For some reason....the players fault or whatever, they just don't seem to perform the way we all expected. Is it always the players fault? Or does Pop insist on fitting everyone neatly in a similar package? Just couldn't there be some shared blame?

[Kori Ellis]

I'm asking, for example, how was Hedo put down by Pop? He was coddled by Pop and put in the starting lineup. How much more of a position to succeed could he have been put in?

[Solid D]

Charley Ward stunk out loud on defense. I was so glad Pop sat him.

[BigVee]

I'm asking, for example, how was Hedo put down by Pop? He was coddled by Pop and put in the starting lineup. How much more of a position to succeed could he have been put in?

Fair enough. I concede on Hedo. Bad example on my part.

[BigVee]

Charley Ward stunk out loud on defense. I was so glad Pop sat him.

My point exactly. Why was he signed? Pop had watched him play for years.

[Manu20]

Hedo just sucked period you can't blame that on Pop.

Ward seem to be glued to the floor when he played defense he was really slow.

[ChumpDumper]

You honestly feel that if Barry had more minutes the team will fall out of first place?With only a three game lead?

Sure.

Feel the same way about overplaying Horry now too.

Makes no sense if you have another team member who can actually do the job. Pop is a system coach and a very successful one. He is by no means perfect but it's hard to argue with the results. If a freewheeler like Manu can't fit into the system, there's no reason Barry can't. I believe he will.

[BigVee]

Time will tell. I sure hope you are right.

[whottt]

I'm more worried about maintaining the confidence of Beno and Devin than I am about Barry right now...they are playing well and it would make our season much easier if they continue to do so.

I just have a feeling Barry will be ok though...I disagree with this article on one thing...Barry is getting wide open looks at the basket...I can sit here and look at old games and see that he is, he's getting enough time to think and you can see him thinking before he shoots...this is what is new to him...

I think this is a problem for a lot of shooters who are used to just shooting quick, I think Barry is that type of player...

Jax on the other hand was different, when Jax would get wide open you could see him just stop and think about it and set himself up...Jax was a guy that was better when he got time to think.

I think Barry is thinking about it too much and I think he is trying to hard to make every shot..

I'm not that worried about it though, Barry is a veteran who has an all around excellence to his game, he will figure out his problems...and I think he will be better in the post season because he struggled early and had to work through his problems.

I tend to get mad at Pop when he lets good players get stuck on the bench, either because he is pissed at them or because they don't play D like Michael Cooper...but this is one time I agree with Pop...We can't sacrifice the progress and momentum of Devin Brown right now to wait on Barry's shot...we need Devin to shoot well too...

Besides, I thought Pop was pretty smart about the way he put Barry in for the FT's...that should have answered any questions to most fans about Barry's ability to come through in the clutch...it also stood a good chance to get Barry's confidence going and let him know the team trusts him, but IMO he still hasn't made the adjustment to being open, and he still hasn't adjusted to the fact that he doesn't actually have to be like Steve Kerr. IMO Barry will be fine when it is all said and done...and he will get minutes no matter what because he is such a smart player.

[Useruser666]

^^^Ditto

[boutons]

I think Stephen has better shooting mechanics than Brent. Stephen shoots with more of his his body involved, good hang time, release a TDC, a better use of the arm and wrist working smoothly together, and gets himself well "under" ball to put up those beautiful work-or-art rainbows. I was watching Steve Nash. Big soft, slow rainbows, even at short-range, often cocking the right leg to ballast/correct his "platform".

Brent, like Tim, Rasho and other flat/wristy shooters, have such poor mechanics that the margin of error is very small. The more the body, shoulders, arm are involved and under the ball in the longest possible stroke, the more/different muscles can work together with a greater range of adjustment possibiliities to make corrections. Wrist-snapping/wristy shooters with poor full-arm extension have almost no margin of error.

Of course, mid-season is no time to start dicking aroiund with your shot (or with your swing in baseball), esp when you haven't messed with your shot in years and it has worked. I'd love to know if Brent is doing anything in practice.

One of these night, Brent will finally see the basket as "huge" (like tennis and baseball players see the balls as huge when they are on their hitting game), he'll shoot 8 for 12 from 3pt range like QRich last night, and the forum will be able to move onto something else. :)

[Useruser666]

I think Stephen has better shooting mechanics than Brent. Stephen shoots with more of his his body involved, good hang time, release a TDC, a better use of the arm and wrist working smoothly together, and gets himself well "under" ball to put up those beautiful work-or-art rainbows. I was watching Steve Nash. Big soft, slow rainbows, even at short-range, often cocking the right leg to ballast/correct his "platform".

Brent, like Tim, Rasho and other flat/wristy shooters, have such poor mechanics that the margin of error is very small. The more the body, shoulders, arm are involved and under the ball in the longest possible stroke, the more/different muscles can work together with a greater range of adjustment possibiliities to make corrections. Wrist-snapping/wristy shooters with poor full-arm extension have almost no margin of error.

Of course, mid-season is no time to start dicking aroiund with your shot (or with your swing in baseball), esp when you haven't messed with your shot in years and it has worked. I'd love to know if Brent is doing anything in practice.

One of these night, Brent will finally see the basket as "huge" (like tennis and baseball players see the balls as huge when they are on their hitting game), he'll shoot 8 for 12 from 3pt range like QRich last night, and the forum will be able to move onto something else. :)

Brent is a far better shooter than SJax. He will come around.

[milkyway21]

Barry>Devin. Reason:outside shooting & he can pass. The sooner he get used to Spurs' offensive/defensive plays, the better. We had Devin last season, still we lost in the 2nd round of the playoffs. And that's why we signed Barry.

[boutons]

Barry shot a midrange jumper too long, a frickin airball, jeez is this guy spooked.

[boutons]

Brent has been a better career shooter, agreed, but if Stephen was having Brent's troubles, I'd much rather work to help SJAx rather than Brent, since SJax has better mechanics, easier to fix, adjust.