Everyone but Minne wants their cake and to eat it too...

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

It strikes me as fascinating that all of the trades we are hearing about involve teams trying to acquire another team's PRIMARY STAR for secondary players and filler.

What ever happened to swapping your star player for someone else's and a finding a few role players who fill out the team better? For example, Dallas choked in 2006 and then got handed their heads in 2007, yet they are saying that Dirk is off limits... why? Isn't he a large part of the reason they can't get over the hump? Hell, if I were them I'd be shopping Dirk and JET and rebuilding around Howard. You could make the same comment about the 2000-02 Spurs and why they didn't shop Duncan, however you'd be an idiot because it was clearly the guard play and perimeter defence that killed those teams (and improved vastly with the arrival of Manu and Tony), as we around here all know...

Minne seems to be the only team dangling its primary guy out there. I guess the reason other teams don't want to swap their primary guy for KG is his proven inability to improve the players around him. He is also not the clutchest of players, although he makes the odd amazing shot to clinch a game. KG is an odd commodity - a fantastic balla with a HoF game who seems not to have what it takes to win. Make him second banana on Dallas or Phoenix and it'll be a tough year for us next year, but i don't see who can deliver enough to Minne to get that done.

[spurscenter]

spread the word nigs

[Bear Grylls]

Amare is now a "secondary player"?

:drunk :elephant :cheer :sombrero: :flypig :bike: :gpower :monkey :sequ :bking

[Cry Havoc]

Amare is now a "secondary player"?

:drunk :elephant :cheer :sombrero: :flypig :bike: :gpower :monkey :sequ :bking


No post defense with Steve Nash on your team pretty much guarantees you aren't the go-to guy. Way to respond intelligently though. All those smilies really get your point across.

[genghisrex]

Amare is now a "secondary player"?
By all accounts, Phoenix is trying to trade Marion, not Amare, for KG. And I don't see Marion as even a second banana on a championship-level team, although he's paid like a franchise player.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

By all accounts, Phoenix is trying to trade Marion, not Amare, for KG. And I don't see Marion as even a second banana on a championship-level team, although he's paid like a franchise player.

Thank you Genghis. All the word I've been reading says Amare is not on the table, Marion is the guy who's being shopped. That's my point, 10 years ago the Suns would've swapped KG for Amare or the Lakers KG for Kobe, shuffled their role players and had another shot, but this offseason everyone is trying to get a superstud player for 50c on the dollar.

I guess it is partly because it is early in the trade season, partly because it's pre-draft, and partly because there are so many superstud and solid franchise players on the market this year, and finally so many teams who know they have to improve to have a chance against us.

I don't understand why the Suns don't accept a KG for Amare and say Ricky Davis-type swap. Nash, Bell, Marion, KG, Thomas with Davis/Barbosa/Diaw and Banks to spark off the bench - ouch! After Nash declines, which is only a max of 3 years away, Amare is not going to carry your franchise - he's great and exciting but he'll never be Duncan - so you may as well put KG with Nash and see if they can get it done.

I can see the other side of that too - Amare is a crowd pleaser, young, who knows where he'll go, but I think their immediate window closes with Nash, who is in the class of Stockton and Thomas as great PGs of the last 30 years.

[MadDog73]

but I think their immediate window closes with Nash, who is in the class of Stockton and Thomas as great PGs of the last 30 years.

Don't forget to add Parker to that list.

And no, I'm not being a homer - I think Tony Parker is as important player for San Antonio as Tim, Bruce and Manu.

We don't win 3 Championships without Parker.

[Bear Grylls]

By all accounts, Phoenix is trying to trade Marion, not Amare, for KG. And I don't see Marion as even a second banana on a championship-level team, although he's paid like a franchise player.


Nope, Amare is part of the deal that is being talked about.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Hey, I love Tony, and I think he took a leap into the top 5 PGs in the league this year, but I'm not sure he's in the Stockton/Thomas/Nash echelon yet... but then he has two rings and two of those guys don't have one, so maybe he should be there.

Let's put it this way, I think Tony will be in that class in a few years, but I'm hesitant to put a 5th year player in that group.

And none of that is Tony-hating. I've never been a Tony hater. In fact, I've vastly enjoyed watching as each year he has added to his game and presence, and this is his year. VIVA LA TEEPEE!!! :tu :D

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Nope, Amare is part of the deal that is being talked about.

Nope, Marion has been in at least three deals that I have read on ESPN and Truehoop AND HAVE REFERENCED (LINKED) IN OTHER THREADS. :rolleyes

Amare is what Minne WANTS, Marion is what the Suns are willing to part with (at this early stage of negotiations).

[2centsworth]

I'm predicting Amare to Atlanta, Atlanta's #3 and #11 to Minnesota, Garnett to Suns.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

I'm predicting Amare to Atlanta, Atlanta's #3 and #11 to Minnesota, Garnett to Suns.

Haven't heard that one, and it doesn't make much sense. Atlanta need a point guard and probably want to take Conley or Law. If the Suns are willing to part with Amare, why not simply swap him for KG and whatever filler satisfies both teams? Say Amare, Banks and X for KG and Davis?

[duncan228]

Hey, I love Tony, and I think he took a leap into the top 5 PGs in the league this year, but I'm not sure he's in the Stockton/Thomas/Nash echelon yet... but then he has two rings and two of those guys don't have one, so maybe he should be there.
Let's put it this way, I think Tony will be in that class in a few years, but I'm hesitant to put a 5th year player in that group.

And none of that is Tony-hating. I've never been a Tony hater. In fact, I've vastly enjoyed watching as each year he has added to his game and presence, and this is his year. VIVA LA TEEPEE!!! :tu :D

Did I misread? Parker has 3 rings.

[JMarkJohns]

I'm predicting Amare to Atlanta, Atlanta's #3 and #11 to Minnesota, Garnett to Suns.

There's no way the Suns do the trade as rumored where they trade both Amare and Thomas in one fell swoop, losing both their centers. Also, that 2008 Atl 1st becomes next to nothing if they choose to help the Hawks.

That's not happening. They'll cut their losses on the Garnett trade, do the rumored Charlotte deal and draft a young replacement like Noah or Brewer. If Brewer, then they'll look to move Diaw to the for an additional top-20 pick.

[Bear Grylls]

Nope, Marion has been in at least three deals that I have read on ESPN and Truehoop AND HAVE REFERENCED (LINKED) IN OTHER THREADS. :rolleyes

Amare is what Minne WANTS, Marion is what the Suns are willing to part with (at this early stage of negotiations).

Kori posted this last night. They even talked about this on ESPN this morning saying that Phoenix has now put Amare in the trade talks.


Garnett talks now include Suns' Stoudemire and third team
By Chad Ford and Marc Stein
ESPN.com


There was a growing sentiment around the league Tuesday night that the Kevin Garnett sweepstakes are nearing a conclusion and that the Phoenix Suns are the most likely winners, with two trade scenarios emerging that could potentially land Garnett in the desert by draft night.

With the Los Angeles Lakers' attempts to construct a multi-team deal or a direct trade with the Minnesota Timberwolves collapsing, ESPN's Jim Gray reports that talk of a potential three-team trade that would involve Minnesota, Boston and Phoenix has been rekindled, in which the primary cost to the Suns would be All-Star forward Shawn Marion moving to the Celtics.

Yet an even bigger trade concept, ESPN.com has learned, was hatched Tuesday by the Wolves, in which Phoenix would likely be asked to trade away the player it has been trying not to trade, All-NBA center Amare Stoudemire, who would go to the Atlanta Hawks.

Either way, indications from various NBA front-office sources suggest that Garnett being moved in conjunction with Thursday's draft looks more likely than ever before, with the Suns -- identified by ESPN.com last week as KG's first choice for a new home -- in prime position to make the big score.

In the scenario reported by Gray, Garnett would go to Phoenix, Boston would land Marion and the Wolves would receive a package featuring the No. 5 overall pick in Thursday's draft along with undisclosed players from the Celtics and Suns.

The key stumbling block for Boston would be Marion's reluctance to play for the Celtics, which sources say was conveyed to both teams last week when the idea of a three-team trade involving these clubs was first made public. With Marion possessing the right to opt out of his contract after next season and become a free agent in July 2008, Boston would undoubtedly be seeking assurances from Marion's camp that he's interested in signing an extension with the Celtics, even though league rules technically would preclude such negotiations until after July 1 (and after the trade).

Another possible stumbling block: Minnesota, sources say, has been adamant that any trade with Boston would include Al Jefferson. The Celtics, in turn, are willing to part with Jefferson only if they're the team that gets Garnett. It remains to be seen if either side softens its stance in the final hours before the draft.

In the newer trade scenario, sources say, Minnesota is looking to acquire Atlanta's No. 3 and No. 11 picks in the draft along with several cap-friendly contracts from the Hawks and Suns. To participate, Atlanta wants Stoudemire from Phoenix.

Such a trade would hold significantly greater appeal to Minnesota than any Celtics' offer that didn't include Jefferson. The Hawks, meanwhile, would be able to reunite Stoudemire with ex-Suns teammate Joe Johnson and immediately field a promising big-and-small core to build around and make Atlanta competitive, given the current state of the Eastern Conference.

The Suns, though, are understandably reluctant to part with Stoudemire after he made the All-NBA first team in what appears to be the most successful comeback from microfracture knee surgery that the NBA has ever witnessed.

The Lakers, meanwhile, haven't abandoned all hope of partnering Garnett with the increasingly frustrated Kobe Bryant just yet. Another concept in circulation Tuesday raised the possibility of a multi-team trade in which the Indiana Pacers' Jermaine O'Neal would go to Atlanta, with Lakers forward Lamar Odom and young center Andrew Bynum heading to the Pacers. That package, at worst, would send the No. 3 pick in the draft to Minnesota as the main payoff for Garnett.

But the Suns increasingly look like the favorites, given that Phoenix is Garnett's preferred destination if he has to leave the only NBA city he has ever known and with the Suns clearly possessing more trade assets. The Wolves are looking for a combination of high draft picks, top young talent and expiring contracts to provide cap relief. The Lakers don't have a draft pick higher than No. 19 to offer and Minnesota, sources say, is not interested in Odom because of the two years and nearly $28 million left on the lanky lefty's contract.

It's believed that the Suns will continue trying to keep Stoudemire out of any deal, but sources say that the athletically gifted 24-year-old is not untouchable -- not with the Wolves having finally made the philosophical commitment to end the Garnett Era after years of speculation and with Phoenix feeling as though there is no better player it could acquire to counter San Antonio's Tim Duncan, who is seen as the Suns' biggest obstacle to getting out of the Western Conference playoffs.

Sources say Minnesota, furthermore, clearly hopes to complete a Garnett trade before the draft begins in hopes of securing a pick in first half of the lottery to go with its own No. 7 selection. The fact that Wolves owner Glen Taylor left the country for China on Tuesday afternoon for his honeymoon doesn't appear to have slowed the Wolves down at all.

Yet it remains to be seen if the Hawks, who have been notoriously reluctant to make roster moves of any sort for months because of their uncertain ownership situation, will actually commit to join in on a trade of this magnitude.

In any case, it's a trade that, even without completion, has seemingly eclipsed one of the most anticipated drafts in years.

[Marcus Bryant]

If Phoenix wants KG they will have to part with Stoudemire.

[JMarkJohns]

If Phoenix wants KG they will have to part with Stoudemire.

That's all good and fine, but that's not necessarily truth. However, if it comes down to it, they'll either trade Amare to Boston, rather than Atlanta, therefore not weakening their 2008 Atl 1st, or they'll pull out of talks.

There's NO WAY Amare goes to Atlanta. On top of everything, JJ left Phoenix because of Amare. He hates his attitude and desire to be the man. It directly conflicts with JJ's desire to be the man. They clashed on several occasions and with Amare being louder, he was always the one shouting down the softer-spoken Johnson. I don't see that working.

Minnesota keeps acting like it has leverage. They don't. Or at least, not much. Garnett has the no-trade clause which he can evoke if he feels the destination is crap, or if the acquiring team is giving up too much to get him. If I'm Garnett and I'm hearing of Phoenix as a possibility, I want to play with Nash and Amare. He can impose his will to make it so. We'll have to see, however.

And by the way, anyone remember the sign-n-trade deals of Penny Hardaway to Phoenix and Grant Hill to Orlando? Each player was at his peak. Neither player was acquired for a star in return. Simple packages based upon picks and young players. Rembmer the trades of Shaquille O'Neal? Yeah, I know he was past his prime, but not even one expiring contract, nor All-Star was included in that deal.

There are plenty of examples where a star is acquired for next to nothing and picks.

[The Red Hood]

If Phoenix wants KG they will have to part with Stoudemire.

Shouldn't PHX have to trade someone else with Amare I don't think he is enough for KG

[Marcus Bryant]

That's all good and fine, but that's not necessarily truth. However, if it comes down to it, they'll either trade Amare to Boston, rather than Atlanta, therefore not weakening their 2008 Atl 1st, or they'll pull out of talks.

There's NO WAY Amare goes to Atlanta. On top of everything, JJ left Phoenix because of Amare. He hates his attitude and desire to be the man. It directly conflicts with JJ's desire to be the man. They clashed on several occasions and with Amare being louder, he was always the one shouting down the softer-spoken Johnson. I don't see that working.

Minnesota keeps acting like it has leverage. They don't. Or at least, not much. Garnett has the no-trade clause which he can evoke if he feels the destination is crap, or if the acquiring team is giving up too much to get him. If I'm Garnett and I'm hearing of Phoenix as a possibility, I want to play with Nash and Amare. He can impose his will to make it so. We'll have to see, however.

And by the way, anyone remember the sign-n-trade deals of Penny Hardaway to Phoenix and Grant Hill to Orlando? Each player was at his peak. Neither player was acquired for a star in return. Simple packages based upon picks and young players. Rembmer the trades of Shaquille O'Neal? Yeah, I know he was past his prime, but not even one expiring contract, nor All-Star was included in that deal.

There are plenty of examples where a star is acquired for next to nothing and picks.

Sign and trade deals tend not to yield much due to the fact that the player involved is a free agent.

[Findog]

Isn't he a large part of the reason they can't get over the hump?

No. Did he guard Wade? Did he guard Baron Davis?


Hell, if I were them I'd be shopping Dirk and JET and rebuilding around Howard.

That's why you're posting on Spurstalk and Donnie Nelson is president of basketball operations for the Mavericks. Why does a team with a Finals apperance, an average of 62 wins over the past three seasons and the only team in the League that has demonstrated an ability to take San Antonio out need to "rebuild"?

[JMarkJohns]

Sign and trade deals tend not to yield much due to the fact that the player involved is a free agent.

Well, with Garnett being able to walk at year's end, this is closer to such than it is to a player being held hostage by situation and having zero say in the matter.

[Marcus Bryant]

Well, with Garnett being able to walk at year's end, this is closer to such than it is to a player being held hostage by situation and having zero say in the matter.

If he wants his salary to stay at its grandfathered level he'll cooperate.

[Shred]

Charles Barkley for Tyrone Corbin and Jeff Hornacek, what?

[JMarkJohns]

At what point does wanting to win a Title matter? At what piont is well over 100 million made in your career worth taking less for a chance at a ring? He may not be at that point yet, but he's always been a fierce competitor, someone who wants to win, and these past three years may have just pounded home how he'll never do it when making that much money. Even Shaq had to take a paycut.

[JMarkJohns]

Charles Barkley for Tyrone Corbin and Jeff Hornacek, what?

It was actually Jeff Hornacek, Tim Perry and Andrew Lang. Not even a pick was thrown in...

[Marcus Bryant]

At what point does wanting to win a Title matter? At what piont is well over 100 million made in your career worth taking less for a chance at a ring? He may not be at that point yet, but he's always been a fierce competitor, someone who wants to win, and these past three years may have just pounded home how he'll never do it when making that much money. Even Shaq had to take a paycut.

Shaq was traded and then signed an extension. If Garnett walks he'll have to find someone with roughly $19 million in cap room to give him the max deal allowable under the CBA.

[ambchang]

The main reason is because Garnett can choose to walk after this season like what Shaq did in 96, and it would leave the wolves with nothing. Teams are picking up on that, and hopes to be the team that is known to for trading fillers for Garnett, much like what the Suns did with Barkley back in 92.
Other teams have done similar things, see Wilt to LA, Moses Malone to 6ers, Shaq to Miami, and to lesser extent Elliott back to the Spurs for Curley.

[rascal]

Phoenix should try to pair Amare and Garnett if they can. Garnett will be traded and if Minn gets desperate enough Phoenix can ponce on a good deal.

This is something the spurs never seem to be able to pull off. A steal of a star player. Not saying Phoenix will pull it off but star players have been stolen before for next to nothing in return.

[Marcus Bryant]

The main reason is because Garnett can choose to walk after this season like what Shaq did in 96, and it would leave the wolves with nothing. Teams are picking up on that, and hopes to be the team that is known to for trading fillers for Garnett, much like what the Suns did with Barkley back in 92.
Other teams have done similar things, see Wilt to LA, Moses Malone to 6ers, Shaq to Miami, and to lesser extent Elliott back to the Spurs for Curley.

Which team will have $19 million in cap room next summer?

[JMarkJohns]

I don't think Garnett is as concerned about maintaining is mid-20 million salary. If he walked, and their happened to be a team 10-to-12 million under the CAP that was competative, then I'm sure Garnett would listen.

Garnett is going to have to face facts and realize he can't have both winning and his money. Maybe for the short term in a place like Phoenix, but longterm, going forward if he isn't traded and opts out, he needs to realize he's made a mountain of money, but hasn't done jack in the playoffs. Sacrafice the prior to make a run to change the latter.

[Marcus Bryant]

$7 million here, $7 million there. Sooner or later that will add up to real $.

[Shred]

It was actually Jeff Hornacek, Tim Perry and Andrew Lang. Not even a pick was thrown in...

My mistake proves my point. Anyway, Amare's not going anywhere.

[K-State Spur]

I don't think Garnett is as concerned about maintaining is mid-20 million salary.

Based on what? The altruism of the modern athlete?

[JMarkJohns]

Based on what? The altruism of the modern athlete?

Based on his talk of opting out. Maybe it's all talk? Maybe he's not there yet, figuring he can be a latcher on and win a Title late in his career? Fact is he's mentioned the opt-out clause. He's used it to work potential trades to contenders. He's mentioned Phoenix as his top choice, a team owned by a man who's constant fear of the luxery tax consumes his every personel move.

If he was more concerned with money than winning, we wouldn't even be discussing him being moved.

[michaelwcho]

My gut tells me KG and Marion is a much better 'court than KG and Amare. With the former you have a really excellent defense, with the latter you lose a lot. Marion is a unique player who contributes in all the little ways. People say that he's overrated, that he's overpaid--I'm not sure that's true. He doesn't score as consistently as Amare of course, but he does so many other things at a Pippen-like level. He gives them so much flexibility and fills up the stat sheet.

Amare is an incredible offensive machine with maturity problems and lack of D. On that team, that is a losing proposition. O is not their problem.

I think Amare is a media superstar. A superior scorer and athlete, but not as good as he looks. Marion is better than he looks.

I also don't think Amare can possibly carry the Suns once Nash is gone. He will be something like Abdur-Rahim, put 30 a night on the worst team in the league. No, the Suns' time is now, while Nash is leading them, and the piece to give up in this trade would be Amare. Their offense would end up being just as good, since everyone on their team can shoot after all, and their D would have a chance of taking another step (let's not pretend their D did not improve last year).

[Marcus Bryant]

I think that's more posturing on his part than anything. He'd have to take a substantial paycut to walk. From Minnesota's perspective, you get one more season of Garnett and if he walks (unlikely) then you blow it up and you just freed up $20 mil in cap room. Not pleasant, but I haven't exactly seen a stellar offer thusfar. The Wolves can string this out until someone comes correct with a better offer. If not, then next season they can opt for a sign and trade deal and get something back for the rebuilding process.

[Vito Corleone]

That's all good and fine, but that's not necessarily truth. However, if it comes down to it, they'll either trade Amare to Boston, rather than Atlanta, therefore not weakening their 2008 Atl 1st, or they'll pull out of talks.

There's NO WAY Amare goes to Atlanta. On top of everything, JJ left Phoenix because of Amare. He hates his attitude and desire to be the man. It directly conflicts with JJ's desire to be the man. They clashed on several occasions and with Amare being louder, he was always the one shouting down the softer-spoken Johnson. I don't see that working.

Minnesota keeps acting like it has leverage. They don't. Or at least, not much. Garnett has the no-trade clause which he can evoke if he feels the destination is crap, or if the acquiring team is giving up too much to get him. If I'm Garnett and I'm hearing of Phoenix as a possibility, I want to play with Nash and Amare. He can impose his will to make it so. We'll have to see, however.

And by the way, anyone remember the sign-n-trade deals of Penny Hardaway to Phoenix and Grant Hill to Orlando? Each player was at his peak. Neither player was acquired for a star in return. Simple packages based upon picks and young players. Rembmer the trades of Shaquille O'Neal? Yeah, I know he was past his prime, but not even one expiring contract, nor All-Star was included in that deal.

There are plenty of examples where a star is acquired for next to nothing and picks.

Minnesota has all the cards, The Lakers what Garnett as much as Phoenix does and they have the ability to make it happen just as much as Phoenix does. The big difference between the two is Stoudimire who is the Sun's ace-in-the-hole. He can trump anything anyone else can offer. The fact is Garnett is not being vocal about wanting out of Minnesota, that means he can probably stay and then work out a sign and trade next season.

The other card Minnesota has is that they can offer Garnett a contract worth around 300 million, he is exempt from the rules given to other players in the CBA. Garnett knows if he ever leaves Minnie outside of a sign and trade he loses that money. He needs to leave via trade or S&T to keep that money, or at lease the option of getting that money.

When it is all said and done it is Minnie that holds the cards not Garnett and not Phoenix.

[EDIT] Another thing to keep in mind is that it is not always a bad thing to let someone walk with no compensation. If Minnie were to do that it would put them almost instantly in the free agent market with about 20 million to spend. That is probably more valuable than any player outside of Stoudimire anyone can offer.

So don't think it is a bad decision to not take another teams worthless crap for Garnett, losing his contract is like losing ones mortgage payment.

[JMarkJohns]

The only way Minnesota holds any cards is if Garnett doesn't opt out of his contract. He says he will... we'll have to see. I don't see how a team potentially one year away from losing him for nothing has the upper hand in negotiations. Especially when they don't even know what the hell they want. Picks... NO! Amare... NO! Picks and prospects... NO! Picks, cap space... Maybe!

What the hell...

[K-State Spur]

They may not have the upper hand, but the deals that most Suns fans seem to be comfortable with are still deals that Minne can get at the trading deadline next year.

[Marcus Bryant]

Unless he's willing to give up half of what he could get he's not walking. Plus right now the most the TWolves will get back is one top 10 pick. They'll wait until they find a deal that's right for them.

[Shred]

They may not have the upper hand, but the deals that most Suns fans seem to be comfortable with are still deals that Minne can get at the trading deadline next year.

But at that point, won't KG be an unrestricted FA?

[Marcus Bryant]

Sure, he'll be unrestricted with teams able to offer him half of what he could get in a sign and trade.

[michaelwcho]

Yes, but will Minn offer him that much when his contract is up?

[Vito Corleone]

Yes, but will Minn offer him that much when his contract is up?

Free agency means nothing at this point, the teams that have money to offer him a max deal when he becomes a FA are teams that will not win with or without him. Everyone knows this except Suns fan. Do you Suns fans think he would sign with you for the mid-level exemption? Garnett must be moved through trade or sign and trade. Now explain again what the motivation is for the Twolves to make a deal for your crap? The longer they wait the better the deals will get, marion is a guy that would be around for exactly the same amount of time as Garnett, so why make the trade? They can still get the picks by moving him next season for picks and expiring contracts next year.

For Phoenix to make it happen they need to bring something more to the table than what they have right now.

[Marcus Bryant]

Someone else might, which is why a sign and trade is much more preferable for Garnett than walking.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

No. Did he guard Wade? Did he guard Baron Davis?



That's why you're posting on Spurstalk and Donnie Nelson is president of basketball operations for the Mavericks. Why does a team with a Finals apperance, an average of 62 wins over the past three seasons and the only team in the League that has demonstrated an ability to take San Antonio out need to "rebuild"?

Because Dirk has had what, 6 shots, at taking that team to the championship and hasn't gotten it done. It's irrelevant whether he guarded Baron Davis, he was schooled by Stephen Jackson and a bunch of smart double teams. Do you see that happening to Timmy? No, he finds a way to win even when his game is shut down.

Now if Dirk had won in 2006 as he should have (up 2-0 and 15pts in the 3rd of game 3), you'd plug away with him until the end of his career, but he strikes me as another Karl Malone - great during the regular season, but lacking the killer instinct to get it done when it matters.

I'd swap Dirk for KG or Amare, get a better PG, and give it another shot.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Charles Barkley for Tyrone Corbin and Jeff Hornacek, what?

Don't forget Andrew Lang.

Exactly, I think the same thing is happening this year, surely no-one is dumb enough to repeat that sort of stupidity??? Uh, no, sorry, this is the NBA isn't it? :lmao

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

My gut tells me KG and Marion is a much better 'court than KG and Amare. With the former you have a really excellent defense, with the latter you lose a lot. Marion is a unique player who contributes in all the little ways. People say that he's overrated, that he's overpaid--I'm not sure that's true. He doesn't score as consistently as Amare of course, but he does so many other things at a Pippen-like level. He gives them so much flexibility and fills up the stat sheet.

Amare is an incredible offensive machine with maturity problems and lack of D. On that team, that is a losing proposition. O is not their problem.

I think Amare is a media superstar. A superior scorer and athlete, but not as good as he looks. Marion is better than he looks.

I also don't think Amare can possibly carry the Suns once Nash is gone. He will be something like Abdur-Rahim, put 30 a night on the worst team in the league. No, the Suns' time is now, while Nash is leading them, and the piece to give up in this trade would be Amare. Their offense would end up being just as good, since everyone on their team can shoot after all, and their D would have a chance of taking another step (let's not pretend their D did not improve last year).

Way to repeat my post #6 on page 1! :lol

[michaelwcho]

Way to repeat my post #6 on page 1! :lol

Come on man, I think I brought a _little_ to the table! :)

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Come on man, I think I brought a _little_ to the table! :)

Yeah, fair enough, you went into more detail... ;) :lol

It's nice to know that someone else out there sees Amare for what he is.

[MannyIsGod]

The CBA happend. The biggest hurdles and reasons for trades in today's NBA are financial not talent oriented.

[genghisrex]

They even talked about this on ESPN this morning saying that Phoenix has now put Amare in the trade talks.
If Amare were on the table, KG would be a Sun done already. Did you read the article you posted? It clearly says that Minnesota wants Amare to be part of the deal, but Phoenix doesn't want to include him. Hence the, "everyone wants their cake and to eat it too." Maybe there's other news to the contrary, but not in your posting.

[ambchang]

Which team will have $19 million in cap room next summer?
Cap space is useless (in terms of making a winning team) unless you can attract high-caliber free agents. The Bulls failed miserably on this a while back, and had to go with the youth movement, and I believe Memphis and Toronto failed as well. Unless you are in a large metropolis (read Lakers, NY) or have unbelievably good weather (read Miami, Phoenix), it is very difficult to land top free agents even with cap room.
Now if you are the ONLY team with cap room that summer, it could make a difference.