Spurs: Team will buy NBDL's Austin Toros

[naico]

http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/basketball/nba/spurs/stories/MYSA062807.austintorros.e-n.22cb7d48.html (http://)

Good news...Great project!

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

"Spurs: Team will buy NBDL's Austin Toros"

Web Posted: 06/28/2007 02:17 PM CDT

Johnny Ludden
Express-News Staff Writer

The Spurs have reached agreement to purchase the Austin Toros of the NBA’s developmental league, an NBA source said Thursday afternoon.

The agreement means the Spurs will become the sole affiliate of the Toros and will be responsible for hiring the team’s management and coaching staffs.

The Toros are expected to continue playing in Austin for the foreseeable future, the source said.

The Los Angeles Lakers are the only other NBA franchise to own a D-League team.

Former University of Missouri coach Quin Snyder was named the Toros coach last month, replacing the late Dennis Johnson, who died midway through last season.

James White became the first Spurs player to play for the Toros last season.

NBA teams are allowed to assign first- and second-year players to the D-League up to three times per season.

[picnroll]

Great. Maybe they'll draft some players to stock it with.

[CubanMustGo]

James White!

[T Park]

FANTASTIC!!

This paves the way for guys like Mahinmi, Sanikidze, and others to play on the team and get "the system" built in.

Way to step up Holt :tu

[yavozerb]

excellent!!Now we can really get some work in on our young players. Great move for the spurs..

[VaSpursFan]

this is great news...instead of stashing players overseas, they can now bring them to the NBDL and get them used to the system, specifically the defensive sheme.

great move by the spurs :toast

[yavozerb]

Even players not signed by the spurs could be brought to play for the toro's for a closer look if needed. Also, I wonder if we integrate the Spurs system of defensive basketball to the team to bring along younger players faster to the system

[L.I.T]

Smooth move. Hopefully this will allow the Spurs to further leverage their scouting department and avoid situations where their foreign draft picks sign long-term deals.

[GINNNNNNNNNNNNOBILI]

Just load the team up with a couple of popular ex-horns and sell cheap beer, and you might be able to build a fan base and make some money

[timvp]

Sounds good. I wonder how the rules work. I'm assuming the Torros couldn't go out and sign the Sanikidzes and Karaulovs of the world in a way that it circumvents the rules.

However, it should be nice to have a place for players who aren't quite good enough to be on the Spurs but good enough to watch develop. Very nice :tu

First order of business should to fire Quin Snyder and hire a real coach.

[naico]

Even players not signed by the spurs could be brought to play for the toro's for a closer look if needed. Also, I wonder if we integrate the Spurs system of defensive basketball to the team to bring along younger players faster to the system


Good thought! Trying to bring in the same schemes would really help to get the younger players used to pop's system

[yavozerb]

Next years toro's:
Koponan,Bellineli, White, Traore,Mahinmi

[Darkwaters]

The Toros should definitely play a similar scheme to the one the Spurs play. I imagine a lot of former Longhorns will be on the team to sell tickets like someone said. We could really ship players down to this team and they could learn the Spurs system even while they're not in SA. Great idea.

What does an NBADL Max salary look like? Could we legitimately sign a player like Sanikidze on a Toros (not NBA Spurs) contract of say 1M a year and stash him in Austin? I'm just thinking outside the box here... If a player is not likely to crack the rotation of the Spurs...but still close to joining the team...and not really gaining anything from either their weak league abroad or their lack of PT...could we pay them a decent salary to play in Austin and we trained in our system and style? This scenario screams Ian Mahinmi. If he would spend his whole rookie season in the DL anyways, why not salvage the roster spot for a vet and pay him in Austin instead?

[ChumpDumper]

Sounds good. I wonder how the rules work. I'm assuming the Torros couldn't go out and sign the Sanikidzes and Karaulovs of the world in a way that it circumvents the rules.I'm not sure. That whole Ricky Sanchez situation really makes me wonder. I mean, I guess he can't be called up by anyone else because the Nuggets still own his rights -- so would it be different if Denver owned the Stampede?

This brings up alot of questions, but it's pretty awesome. Hopefully they don't turn over the entire staff so I'll still know folks there.

[samikeyp]

Great idea. :tu

Now get Snyder's ass outta there and it will be perfect.

[naico]

Toros Roster


2006-07 Roster
NUM PLAYER POS HT WT FROM
25 Justin Bowen F 6-7 210 Illinois-Chicago
22 Brad Buckman F 6-9 245 Texas
55 Marcus Campbell C 7-0 280 Mississippi State
15 Kris Clack F 6-5 225 Texas
20 BJ Elder G 6-4 205 Georgia Tech
44 Anthony Fuqua F 6-11 225 University of Texas-San Antonio
30 Cheyne Gadson G 6-2 205 Oklahoma State
7 Brock Gillespie G 6-2 190 Rice
6 Jamar Smith F 6-9 235 Maryland
Trent Strickland F 6-5 200 Wake Forest

[T Park]

first order of business.

Hire a former head coach thats now a low assistant, and knows the system to a point to coach the team.

Mario Elie?

Someone along those lines. Maybe a Paul Pressey.

[yavozerb]

Hmmm, a purchase such as this on draft day. Expect not to see any of our draft picks from this year on the roster for 2007-2008.

[Borosai]

This is a direct result of the man... yes, that one.

[samikeyp]

Elie would be a great choice.

[Mr. Body]

Can other teams pay to place their players on the team or something?

[ploto]

Sounds good. I wonder how the rules work. I'm assuming the Torros couldn't go out and sign the Sanikidzes and Karaulovs of the world in a way that it circumvents the rules.
My first thought- the Spurs basically through the Toros sign Ian- instead of his multi-year guaranteed first round contract from the Spurs, they get him to sign with the Toros and play there cheap. Then they don't have to waste a year of his rookie contract in the NBDL. Can they do that? Seems like they should not be able to...

[T Park]

Elie makes sense.

hes got coaching experience, he knows the system, he is a perfect Avery Johnson like player that had alot of adversity to deal with to teach the youngins.

It makes too much sense for him not to be the head coach.

Quinn Snyder makes Flip Saunders look like Red Auerbach and Phil Jackson rolled into one.

[ChumpDumper]

Toros Roster


2006-07 Roster
NUM PLAYER POS HT WT FROM
25 Justin Bowen F 6-7 210 Illinois-Chicago
22 Brad Buckman F 6-9 245 Texas
55 Marcus Campbell C 7-0 280 Mississippi State
15 Kris Clack F 6-5 225 Texas
20 BJ Elder G 6-4 205 Georgia Tech
44 Anthony Fuqua F 6-11 225 University of Texas-San Antonio
30 Cheyne Gadson G 6-2 205 Oklahoma State
7 Brock Gillespie G 6-2 190 Rice
6 Jamar Smith F 6-9 235 Maryland
Trent Strickland F 6-5 200 Wake Forest
The way the rules work, four of those players can be retained.

Bowen and Gadson would be definite keepers IMO. Smith and Elder could come back too if they don't go to Europe.

[ChumpDumper]

Can other teams pay to place their players on the team or something?If the D-Fenders model is followed, no.

[Vito Corleone]

This is better news than anything that can come out of the draft. Before baseball had a farm system, the Cinci Reds built a baseball dynasty in the 60's and 70's with their farm system and I'm really hoping that is what happens here. Not only that but we can begin to grow some management personnel as well, especially since most of the other teams seem to like our guys.

[spursincharge]

Toros Roster


2006-07 Roster
NUM PLAYER POS HT WT FROM
25 Justin Bowen F 6-7 210 Illinois-Chicago
22 Brad Buckman F 6-9 245 Texas
55 Marcus Campbell C 7-0 280 Mississippi State
15 Kris Clack F 6-5 225 Texas
20 BJ Elder G 6-4 205 Georgia Tech
44 Anthony Fuqua F 6-11 225 University of Texas-San Antonio
30 Cheyne Gadson G 6-2 205 Oklahoma State
7 Brock Gillespie G 6-2 190 Rice
6 Jamar Smith F 6-9 235 Maryland
Trent Strickland F 6-5 200 Wake Forest

Yeah Fuqua isn't good at all. He'll never make the NBA. I watched him play at UTSA for 2 years...lol....No need to bold his name

[Kori Ellis]

first order of business.

Hire a former head coach thats now a low assistant, and knows the system to a point to coach the team.

Mario Elie?

Someone along those lines. Maybe a Paul Pressey.

Elie was in the final two for the head coaching job there recently and he wasn't selected. So I don't know if they'd go back to him.

Just send Brett Brown down. :)

[T Park]

No kidding. Didn't know that. Well now that the Spurs own the team, it makes you wonder if theyd change their mind.

Brett Brown makes sense too, but, I don't know, Elie just seems like a perfect fit.

[naico]

The way the rules work, four of those players can be retained.

Bowen and Gadson would be definite keepers IMO. Smith and Elder could come back too if they don't go to Europe.

Gadson is for sure the guy to keep

[ChumpDumper]

My first thought- the Spurs basically through the Toros sign Ian- instead of his multi-year guaranteed first round contract from the Spurs, they get him to sign with the Toros and play there cheap. Then they don't have to waste a year of his rookie contract in the NBDL. Can they do that? Seems like they should not be able to...Again, with the fairly similar example of Ricky Sanchez, it seems like it could be conceiveble. It actually makes a certain amount of sense for the NBA to support this kind of arrangement.

[yavozerb]

I'm suprised that only 2 teams have purchased their own teams thus far!!

[ChumpDumper]

I'm suprised that only 2 teams have purchased their own teams thus far!!I was shocked the second one to buy wasn't Cuban -- but he could be next. The Fort Worth team (owned by the same company) is about to leave town due to poor attendance and they also have some outstanding debts.

[leemajors]

Hmmm, a purchase such as this on draft day. Expect not to see any of our draft picks from this year on the roster for 2007-2008.
instead they can play every game down in austin and learn the system, which could be a great thing.

[CubanMustGo]

Damn that cheap Holt! Now he won't spend any money on player contracts for the upcoming season.

/sarcasm

[Kori Ellis]

The way the rules work, four of those players can be retained.

Bowen and Gadson would be definite keepers IMO. Smith and Elder could come back too if they don't go to Europe.

Why is that the rule (that only four can be kept)?

[timvp]

Any idea how much Holt had to pay to buy this thing? I remember seeing a number somewhere about a D-League owner talking about the value of a franchise. IIRC, it was somewhere between $5-10M.

[yavozerb]

I was shocked the second one to buy wasn't Cuban -- but he could be next. The Fort Worth team (owned by the same company) is about to leave town due to poor attendance and they also have some outstanding debts.

The spurs will let the mavs send the players to the toros for development of practice team for spurs future players..

[T Park]

Once again.

Props to Holt :tu

[ChumpDumper]

Why is that the rule (that only four can be kept)?Dunno, that's just how it works. The rest of the players can be signed by any other team.

[Marcus Bryant]

Again, with the fairly similar example of Ricky Sanchez, it seems like it could be conceiveble. It actually makes a certain amount of sense for the NBA to support this kind of arrangement.

Would the NBPA be down with that?

[L.I.T]

Any idea how much Holt had to pay to buy this thing? I remember seeing a number somewhere about a D-League owner talking about the value of a franchise. IIRC, it was somewhere between $5-10M.

Luxury tax savings over the last five years. Frugality at it's best.

[Kori Ellis]

Dunno, that's just how it works. The rest of the players can be signed by any other team.

So, the DLeague won't assign players to the Toros like they do all the other teams? Or...

Sorry, I don't have a clue how it works.

[ChumpDumper]

The spurs will let the mavs send the players to the toros for development of practice team for spurs future players..They can't. The Mavs affilate will probably be the Rio Grande Valley team unless the Flyers find a new home soon.

[ChumpDumper]

Would the NBPA be down with that?Good question. They might push for mandatory 14-man NBA roster minimums or something like that.

[ChumpDumper]

So, the DLeague won't assign players to the Toros like they do all the other teams? Or...

Sorry, I don't have a clue how it works.Do you mean allocation like the cases of Brad Buckman and Kris Clack? They should continue to do that, but in think that's just a first year thing for each player.

[ChumpDumper]

Any idea how much Holt had to pay to buy this thing? I remember seeing a number somewhere about a D-League owner talking about the value of a franchise. IIRC, it was somewhere between $5-10M.That seems high. I'll have to check.

[timvp]

One reason for this I assume is that the Spurs farm team in Europe (Pau Orthez) got broken up. The head coach got fired and the team is moving in a new direction.

That was the team with Mahinmi, Melvin Sanders, Britton Johnsen, Aaron Miles and virtually everyone else the Spurs ever liked in the last couple years :lol

[yavozerb]

So its possible that the spurs could have a total of 6 players(White, mahinmi,sanikize,3 draft picks from today) play in austin sometime next season, right?

[spurQ]

Very! Very! Nice move by the Spurs. This should had been done long time ago.

[T Park]

Hopefully they can get Sanikidze, Mahinmi, Aaron Miles and others over, and see whos worth it.

[Kori Ellis]

I'm not sure how it would work with Mahinmi. I would think they'd have to sign him to the Spurs and then send him down. I think it would be a little crooked if they could just have him sign there directly with the Toros (and get paid peanuts) instead.

[Solid D]

http://iavbbs.com/gflinn/kiam.jpg

I liked the team so much, I bought the company!

[TDMVPDPOY]

hey so whats the salary like playin on the toros?

[Rogbok]

I'm not sure how it would work with Mahinmi. I would think they'd have to sign him to the Spurs and then send him down. I think it would be a little crooked if they could just have him sign there directly with the Toros (and get paid peanuts) instead.

If that is the case, would that mean, if Ian wanted to, he also would not be able to sign with any other NBDL team? I mean the NBDL is still a basketball league that does sign its own players to its own contracts, but also serves to allow NBA teams to send down players under NBA contracts. Should be interesting.

It would be pretty awesome if the Toros could sign who ever they wanted to as long as there is no NBA contract already signed.

[ChumpDumper]

I'm not sure how it would work with Mahinmi. I would think they'd have to sign him to the Spurs and then send him down. I think it would be a little crooked if they could just have him sign there directly with the Toros (and get paid peanuts) instead.I imagine they've discussed how these things would work with the league. If the player never gets called up, I'm not sure there would be much of a problem. I can only use Ricky Sanchez as an example, but 1st rounders might be a trickier situation.

[Aud21946]

Is Quinn Snyder really that bad .. I not to sure on that one ... He's not that bad .. Had some winning years in Mizzou

[Kori Ellis]

I imagine they've discussed how these things would work with the league. If the player never gets called up, I'm not sure there would be much of a problem. I can only use Ricky Sanchez as an example, but 1st rounders might be a trickier situation.

Yes, I was thinking because he's a first rounder that would make it complicated because of the salary situation.

[T Park]

Is Quinn Snyder really that bad .. I not to sure on that one ... He's not that bad .. Had some winning years in Mizzou

horrible.

[yavozerb]

Well, just like any other corporation in which new mgmt takes over there are def. going to be some changes. I also like the idea of Elie taking over as coach and who knows maybe when the hired Snyder that was the straw that broke the camels back and forced the Spurs into purchasing the team!!

[Aud21946]

I can allways think of worse coaches ... Terry Stotts anyone ?

[ChumpDumper]

Yes, I was thinking because he's a first rounder that would make it complicated because of the salary situation.Using the Sanchez exmple, I don't see a problem if he doesn't get called up. Seems like the first time they call him up, they'll be starting his rookie deal and if they send him back down he'll still be counted on the Spurs' roster. Now I can see the NBPA having a problem with that, and there might be some question about his being paid for the full season, but it at least seems to be doable.

[Kori Ellis]

Using the Sanchez exmple, I don't see a problem if he doesn't get called up. Seems like the first time they call him up, they'll be starting his rookie deal and if they send him back down he'll still be counted on the Spurs' roster. Now I can see the NBPA having a problem with that, and there might be some question about his being paid for the full season, but it at least seems to be doable.

That's what I'm thinking would be the problem if he got called up. But I guess they could have a rule where he'd get retroactive NBA pay dating back to the beginning of the season if they called him up at all.

[ChumpDumper]

As far as Snyder goes, I'm sure Southwest Basketball and the Spurs were in negotiations at the time of his hiring, so it was likely done with the Spurs' blessing.

[FromWayDowntown]

I would think that, at least to some degree, we're finally moving in the direction of having a true farm system with organizations being able to develop younger players in a developmental league on teams that are very closely associated with the parent franchise.

I can't see how the NBA would permit an organization to circumvent the CBA by signing players to NBDL deals without there being some penalty on the NBA level.

I also wonder a bit about the exclusivity of this arrangement. Does Spurs ownership of the Toros preclude other teams from attempting to call up players on the Toros roster who are not under contract with the Spurs? I don't suppose that all of the Toros players last year were allocated by NBA clubs, and I don't know if those unallocated players were eligible for call-up by any NBA team or whether they could only be called-up by teams affiliated with the Toros. Has that already been discussed without me catching it or, if not, can someone tell me how that works?

[ChumpDumper]

I can't see how the NBA would permit an organization to circumvent the CBA by signing players to NBDL deals without there being some penalty on the NBA levelBut if we are indeed moving in the direction of a farm system, wouldn't it make sense to allow it?
I also wonder a bit about the exclusivity of this arrangement. Does Spurs ownership of the Toros preclude other teams from attempting to call up players on the Toros roster who are not under contract with the Spurs?I don't know what the current arrangement is with the D-Fenders. No non-Lakers were called up from that team, but I can't say it was because of any rule. My gut tells me those players were available to any team.

[whottt]

The biggest benefit I can see from this is that the Spurs will have complete control over the offensive and defensive systems the Toros will run...like the Lakers do with the D-Fenders.

This means players that have played for the Toros called up to the Spurs will come in knowing exactly how the Spurs defensive schemes work, and won't have as much of an incubation period to pick up the D as they have previously.

I don't know exactly what they were running before, perhaps they were already doing what the Spurs were asking of them in an attempt to make them an attractive buy to the Spurs...

But now it's absolutely certain, that team will be running the D(and O) exactly according to the standards of Pop.


It's a great move...it's something that keeps the Spurs ahead of every team in the NBA, and I think it's going to pay dividends with Spurs projects immediately.

That's the #1 benefit I see with this purchase.


I remember reading how the D-Fefenders run the triangle and that was a major reason the Lakers bought them, because it is an unusual system and so they wouldn't have to take as long to pick up the triangle at the NBA level.


Props to Holt and the Spurs on a wise and forward thinking investment...and I am looking forward to seeing Sanikidze and Mahimimi play there this season(maybe even Karaulov). Big Market move....

[Kori Ellis]

ChumpD - What's the maximum that DLeaguers make these days? Similar to the CBA, just a few grand a month?

[pablo3po]

As far as Snyder goes, I'm sure Southwest Basketball and the Spurs were in negotiations at the time of his hiring, so it was likely done with the Spurs' blessing.


Quinn actually went with RC to the first game of the finals. One of the reasons they hired him was because of a friendship that Snyder and RC had.

Also the rio grande team will be affliliated with the Rockets.

Cheyne Gadson is actually hanging out this summer helping with the camps and learning the "business side" of basketball kind of as an intern.

The Spurs/Toros thing will be awesome. Unfortunatly the Rio Grande team has silver and black.

[ChumpDumper]

ChumpD - What's the maximum that DLeaguers make these days? Similar to the CBA, just a few grand a month?The salaries are all paid by the league and the amounts depend on criteria they don't make public, but apparently include experince. I think Lance Allred was talking about getting $10-15k for the season, but I'd have to check again. I'm assuming anywhere from $10-$30k. They do get housing for the season as well.

[whottt]

Hopefully the Spurs will be able to use this to increase their own virtually non-existent marketing presence in Austin as well. Austin is a rabid sports market once a team breaks through and catches the interest of the town.

[FromWayDowntown]

But if we are indeed moving in the direction of a farm system, wouldn't it make sense to allow it?

Absolutely. But since we're not all the way to a farm system yet, I'm not sure that it will fly yet.

It's an expensive gambit to avoid the cap and it certainly wouldn't do much to help franchises that are young at the NBA level and are using NBA games to develop players.

I think it would be wonderful if teams could sign 2nd round picks to what amount to minor league contracts (ala MLB) and assign them to a developmental team if they're unable to make the big league squad. But I don't think that the infrastructure exists in the CBA to allow that to happen now.

[Kori Ellis]

The salaries are all paid by the league and the amounts depend on criteria they don't make public, but apparently include experince. I think Lance Allred was talking about getting $10-15k for the season, but I'd have to check again. I'm assuming anywhere from $10-$30k. They do get housing for the season as well.

It's amazing the huge difference between the DLeague/CBA salary and the minimum NBA salary. I know it's a huge step. But the best guys in the lower leagues are so, so close to being the bottom tier players in the NBA.

[bob bass sucks]

wtf. Where did the Spurs come up with the money? They were just crying about barely making money the other week .

[ChumpDumper]

Quinn actually went with RC to the first game of the finals. One of the reasons they hired him was because of a friendship that Snyder and RC had.

Also the rio grande team will be affliliated with the Rockets.

Cheyne Gadson is actually hanging out this summer helping with the camps and learning the "business side" of basketball kind of as an intern.Yeah, RC was at the press conference introducing Snyder, which was a surprise at the time -- now I know why.

Cheyne is a nice guy and a decent point guard. He's pretty close to NBA quality. If he doesn't make it I hope to see him in Austin again.


The Spurs/Toros thing will be awesome. Unfortunatly the Rio Grande team has silver and black.I actually like the Toros' team colors. I bought enough merchandise that I don't want them to change.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

wtf. Where did the Spurs come up with the money? They were just crying about barely making money the other week .
2 words:

piggy bank.

[ChumpDumper]

Absolutely. But since we're not all the way to a farm system yet, I'm not sure that it will fly yet.

It's an expensive gambit to avoid the cap and it certainly wouldn't do much to help franchises that are young at the NBA level and are using NBA games to develop players.At the same time, more of your draft picks are staying in the states instead of playing for the benefit of foreign teams and leagues.


I think it would be wonderful if teams could sign 2nd round picks to what amount to minor league contracts (ala MLB) and assign them to a developmental team if they're unable to make the big league squad. But I don't think that the infrastructure exists in the CBA to allow that to happen now.I think it could easily be changed to do so. As long as there are enough players getting actual NBA roster spots and salaries, I don't see much of a problem.

[whottt]

I can't see how the NBA would permit an organization to circumvent the CBA by signing players to NBDL deals without there being some penalty on the NBA level.

?


I think the NBA is going to subsidize the NBDL in any way they can and as much as possible to ensure it's success. They want it to succeed...they want it to help stave off the Euroleagues catching up to them. The fact that the small market /udget tight Spurs have bought into it is going to make the NBA exceedingly happy IMO, and the other teams aren't going to have much of an excuse to not avail themselves of the resource. I think the NBA will probably be looking for a way to throw an advantage to the NBA teams buying into the NBDL, rather than attempting to penalize them.

[pablo3po]

Yeah, RC was at the press conference introducing Snyder, which was a surprise at the time -- now I know why.

Cheyne is a nice guy and a decent point guard. He's pretty close to NBA quality. If he doesn't make it I hope to see him in Austin again.

I actually like the Toros' team colors. I bought enough merchandise that I don't want them to change.


Yeah i think i have just about all of it to...even the kids stuff for my goddaughter.... but would love to at least see them do they affiliate night in silver and black austin toros alternate jerseys or even just spurs jerseys. Seeing them in the Rockets uniforms last year made me sick..lol

[FromWayDowntown]

I think the NBA is going to subsidize the NBDL in any way they can and as much as possible to ensure it's success. They want it to succeed...they want it to help stave off the Euroleagues catching up to them. The fact that the small market /udget tight Spurs have bought into it is going to make the NBA exceedingly happy IMO, and the other teams aren't going to have much of an excuse to not avail themselves of the resource. I think the NBA will probably be looking for a way to throw an advantage to the NBA teams buying into the NBDL, rather than attempting to penalize them.

Sure, but short of a unilateral change in the middle of the term of this CBA, there wouldn't appear to be any way to create special exceptions for NBDL use.

If the Spurs want to put 3 guys whose rights they hold in Austin, it seems to me that the Spurs have to sign them to NBA deals and then send them down -- that means, I think, that the Spurs have to keep the roster spots available for those guys even while they're in Austin (though I'll admit that I could be mis-remembering that part of the equation). I can't see that too many teams are going to be anxious to eat up NBA flexibility for the sake of NBDL development.

(I'm thinking aloud here, so pardon me if I'm slowly working around to logic that others have figured out a long time ago. )

I suppose that I could see, though, that the league might not balk at the Spurs using the Austin franchise to sign players who are Spurs property but not yet signed to NBA deals and using that means as, essentially, a basis to develop younger players. There wouldn't necessarily be an advantage for the Spurs, because if they wanted to obtain whatever benefits those players might offer, they'd have to relinquish an NBA player before calling up the NBDL kid and signing him to an NBA deal. That creates a systemic disadvantage to developing a shuttling system.

With guys like domestic 2nd rounders who go to camp with the team that drafts them, there would also be a requirement that the big club release the player at the end of camp before attempting to sign him to the NBDL deal. That gives the player a chance to catch on elsewhere and be in the NBA, I suppose, before settling for a spot on a development roster.

I'm convinced.

[ChumpDumper]

I should go to the draft party they are having downtown, but I get the feeling there will be some dead men walking among the staff.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Toros Roster


2006-07 Roster
NUM PLAYER POS HT WT FROM
25 Justin Bowen F 6-7 210 Illinois-Chicago
22 Brad Buckman F 6-9 245 Texas
55 Marcus Campbell C 7-0 280 Mississippi State
15 Kris Clack F 6-5 225 Texas
20 BJ Elder G 6-4 205 Georgia Tech
44 Anthony Fuqua F 6-11 225 University of Texas-San Antonio
30 Cheyne Gadson G 6-2 205 Oklahoma State
7 Brock Gillespie G 6-2 190 Rice
6 Jamar Smith F 6-9 235 Maryland
Trent Strickland F 6-5 200 Wake Forest


Whoa, my man Buckman is on the Toros???? I bet he's one of the best rebounders on the team.

[Budkin]

Kick ass! Living in Austin I love this move. See ya Celtics and Rockets! GO TOROS GO!

[ChumpDumper]

Whoa, my man Buckman is on the Toros???? I bet he's one of the best rebounders on the team.He was pretty awful actually.

[CubanMustGo]

According to an ESPN.com article:

"The starting salary is $27,500 and the highest anyone is paid is $40,000."

http://espn.go.com/page2/s/mckendry/020108.html

[theroc5]

Yes Freakn Great

[whottt]

I should go to the draft party they are having downtown, but I get the feeling there will be some dead men walking among the staff.



Me and the mookie crew are going to crash your D-League Show one of these days...it's been discussed, and plans are in the works...be ready for it..Anthony ;)

[whottt]

Sure, but short of a unilateral change in the middle of the term of this CBA, there wouldn't appear to be any way to create special exceptions for NBDL use.

If the Spurs want to put 3 guys whose rights they hold in Austin, it seems to me that the Spurs have to sign them to NBA deals and then send them down -- that means, I think, that the Spurs have to keep the roster spots available for those guys even while they're in Austin (though I'll admit that I could be mis-remembering that part of the equation). I can't see that too many teams are going to be anxious to eat up NBA flexibility for the sake of NBDL development.

(I'm thinking aloud here, so pardon me if I'm slowly working around to logic that others have figured out a long time ago. )

I suppose that I could see, though, that the league might not balk at the Spurs using the Austin franchise to sign players who are Spurs property but not yet signed to NBA deals and using that means as, essentially, a basis to develop younger players. There wouldn't necessarily be an advantage for the Spurs, because if they wanted to obtain whatever benefits those players might offer, they'd have to relinquish an NBA player before calling up the NBDL kid and signing him to an NBA deal. That creates a systemic disadvantage to developing a shuttling system.

With guys like domestic 2nd rounders who go to camp with the team that drafts them, there would also be a requirement that the big club release the player at the end of camp before attempting to sign him to the NBDL deal. That gives the player a chance to catch on elsewhere and be in the NBA, I suppose, before settling for a spot on a development roster.

I'm convinced.



Well you make some valid points...I'll just say that in this case...I expect the Spurs made this move for more reasons than just the obvious benefits. They always seem to know something no one else does.

[Spurs Brazil]

Spurs Purchase D-League’s Austin Toros
Posted Jun 28 2007 6:20PM

NEW YORK, June 28 – The National Basketball Association announced today that the 2006-07 NBA Champion San Antonio Spurs have signed an agreement to purchase the Austin Toros of the NBA Development League (“D-League”) from Southwest Basketball, LLC.
"The Spurs are one of the most respected and well-run organizations in sports,” said NBA Commissioner David Stern. “When the four-time champions understand the benefits of investing in the D-League, it’s a great referendum on our minor league's ability to develop players, coaches and front office staff for NBA teams.”

As owners of the Austin D-League franchise, the Spurs will oversee all aspects of the organization, including the offensive and defensive systems the Toros run in practices and games, the hiring of staff – including coaches – and ticket and sponsorship sales. San Antonio will also have exclusive rights to assign its players with one or two years of NBA experience to the Toros. Austin is coached by former University of Missouri coach Quin Snyder.

“The San Antonio Spurs organization is thrilled to add the Austin Toros to our family,” said Spurs General Manager R.C. Buford. “The D-League has a proven track record of developing talent both on and off the court. By owning our own team, we are now in a great position to develop our young players within our system and with our input. It’s a terrific opportunity for us and we can’t wait to get started.”

The Spurs are the second NBA team to own and operate their own D-League affiliate, joining the Los Angeles Lakers who own the Los Angeles D-fenders. During the 2006-07 season, the Lakers hired their own coaching staff to teach the “Triangle Offense” to the D-fender players and most notably used the assignment system to enable guard Jordan Farmar to become the first player to participate in an NBA game and D-League game in the same day.

"The D-League is a great source of talent and a terrific forum for young players and coaches to develop their skills," said Lakers General Manager Mitch Kupchak. "Our ownership of the D-Fenders has been a great opportunity for the Lakers organization and we are looking forward to continuing to develop our relationship with the D-League in the future."

Since the NBA began the assignment system with the D-League prior to the 2005-06 season, NBA teams have assigned 53 players a total of 77 times, including 30 selections from the 2005 and 2006 NBA Drafts. Last season, a total of 47 former NBA draft picks played in the D-League. Lottery selections such as Portland’s Martell Webster (6th pick overall in 2005), Golden State’s Patrick O’Bryant (9th pick, 2006) and Seattle’s Mouhamed Sene (10th pick, 2006) were assigned to their respective team’s D-League affiliate.

Entering its seventh season, the D-League – the NBA’s minor league established to develop talent across all disciplines for the NBA – will be relocating its headquarters from Greenville, S.C. to New York City to help foster the D-League's continued growth by giving it direct access to the support and resources of the NBA and WNBA. During the 2006-07 season, 19 NBA teams assigned 24 players to D-League rosters, and 14 NBA teams called-up 16 players (‘Gatorade Call-ups’) while 31 D-League alumni participated in the NBA Playoffs. Additionally, every referee hired by the NBA since 2002 has worked in the D-League, while coaches, athletic trainers and front office executives are also being developed.
http://www.nba.com/news/spurs_toros_070628.html

[Clutch20]

..........and so.........could we perhaps see some Sept. scrimmages between Toros team and Spurs rooks?


__________________________________________________

“They do a great job of their system and staying true to form,
making big plays in big moments,” Suns coach Mike D'Antoni
told reporters in Phoenix on Thursday. “That's what we're
trying to get. Mental toughness, being lucky, I don't know
what it is.”

The Spurs, D”Antoni added, just seem to “believe a little bit
more.”
“All the time,” he said.

[ChumpDumper]

The Toros won't even have their team together by then.

[pablo3po]

I should go to the draft party they are having downtown, but I get the feeling there will be some dead men walking among the staff.


I went and it was actually pretty packed...spirits were actually pretty high...tomorrow is the big meeting with the spurs at the toros office.

Most of the Toros front office and even the mascot worked for the spurs and even have some rings from their time with the spurs so i dont think there will be to much turnover at least not initially.

[dmac]

...Very nice :tu

First order of business should to fire Quin Snyder and hire a real coach.

i can't stand that greasy bastard. other wise, he's ok.

[ChumpDumper]

I went and it was actually pretty packed...spirits were actually pretty high...tomorrow is the big meeting with the spurs at the toros office.

Most of the Toros front office and even the mascot worked for the spurs and even have some rings from their time with the spurs so i dont think there will be to much turnover at least not initially.I'll believe it when I see it. I wouldn't be shocked by scorched earth save Da Bull and the trainer.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Go ahead and get rid of Quinn. Dude sucks.

[pad300]

Should've spent the money on pick #24 or #30 - both sold to Portland for Cash...

[ChumpDumper]

How many low draft picks does an NBA champion need?

[pad300]

How many low draft picks does an NBA champion need?

Those were Fernandez and Koponen respectively. Both of whom are real talent. Take talent where you can get it man. Not to mention they both fit on the draft and stash plan, not taking up roster spots until reasonably developed.

[ChumpDumper]

Take talent where you can get it man.We did.
Not to mention they both fit on the draft and stash plan, not taking up roster spots until reasonably developed.Not to mention we already have five guys doing that, and there's nothing to indicate they'll be any better than the guys already in the pipeline.

[Money316]

Peter Holt after tomorrow's hangover,

"I did what???"

[spurastic]

Hopefully the Spurs will be able to use this to increase their own virtually non-existent marketing presence in Austin as well. Austin is a rabid sports market once a team breaks through and catches the interest of the town.

I was thinking this too. Could be good marketing ploy to get Austin folks more interested in Spurs. I always wondered why Spurs were basically ignored in Austin. Dreaming----I still want a rail to go from Austin, pick up folks in Buda, Kyle, San Marcos, New Braunfels, etc. and drop off at ATT Center for games. I'm sure that's not in any pending plans.

[whottt]

I was thinking this too. Could be good marketing ploy to get Austin folks more interested in Spurs. I always wondered why Spurs were basically ignored in Austin. Dreaming----I still want a rail to go from Austin, pick up folks in Buda, Kyle, San Marcos, New Braunfels, etc. and drop off at ATT Center for games. I'm sure that's not in any pending plans.


It's the damn Spurs that do it...and the stupid KENS Blackouts because they are supposedly in our range...I think like 30 years ago you could pick up KENS here if you lived just outside of Buda(and had a big 30 foot antenna outside your house).

But anyway...the Spurs suck butt at marketing...I think I can remember two big marketing pushes here in Austin by the Spurs in my entire life...one was something having to do with Gervin making some appearances here back in 1981...and the other was they held a couple of scrimmages here about 15 years ago...I honestly can't think of anything else they have done...and if they have done other stuff, they need to fire the people that advertised it here in Austin, because they didn't advertise it much at all. Even the scrimmages I only found out about becuse I was living in SA at the time.


Tex Schramm >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Spurs FO

You think about it...the Spurs are going through a better dynastic period than the Cowboys have ever had...one of the best in history not by the Yankees or Celtics...and they can't even generate interest in a sports hungry town with no pro franchise 60 miles away. The Spurs are marketing morons. As good as they've been at putting together winning teams from day 1...they've been equally lousy at marketing.

Someone needs to put their foot up KENS azz and get the blackout restrictions lifted here in Austin...or else get KENS to boost their freaking signal.

The Mavs are actually taking this market away from the Spurs....

[polandprzem]

:lol

I'm laughing cause I cought myself again on that whott is black

[spurscenter]

every nba team should have a triple aaa team . and they can do whatever with those players unless they release them.

Like MLB but only 1 level. right now 2-3 teams share 1 team pool of players.

[Southwest Texas Fan]

The Spurs just keep finding ways to succeed. First in scouting international prospects and now having their very own minor type league.

[shelshor]

Me and the mookie crew are going to crash your D-League Show one of these days...it's been discussed, and plans are in the works...be ready for it..Anthony ;)
As long as their isn't a Spurs home game that night, spurastic & I may invite our selves to help crash that party


It's the damn Spurs that do it...and the stupid KENS Blackouts because they are supposedly in our range...I think like 30 years ago you could pick up KENS here if you lived just outside of Buda(and had a big 30 foot antenna outside your house).

But anyway...the Spurs suck butt at marketing...I think I can remember two big marketing pushes here in Austin by the Spurs in my entire life...one was something having to do with Gervin making some appearances here back in 1981...and the other was they held a couple of scrimmages here about 15 years ago...I honestly can't think of anything else they have done...and if they have done other stuff, they need to fire the people that advertised it here in Austin, because they didn't advertise it much at all. Even the scrimmages I only found out about becuse I was living in SA at the time.


Tex Schramm >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Spurs FO

You think about it...the Spurs are going through a better dynastic period than the Cowboys have ever had...one of the best in history not by the Yankees or Celtics...and they can't even generate interest in a sports hungry town with no pro franchise 60 miles away. The Spurs are marketing morons. As good as they've been at putting together winning teams from day 1...they've been equally lousy at marketing.

Someone needs to put their foot up KENS azz and get the blackout restrictions lifted here in Austin...or else get KENS to boost their freaking signal.

The Mavs are actually taking this market away from the Spurs....
Seems like in the first 4 or 5 years after the merger, there was talk of at least exhibition games in Austin, and after the Erwin Center was built, there was mention of some regular season games up here--don't know if any of those ever panned out, because I was out of Texas about then

Wasn't one of the minor Cuban-making-an-ass-of-hisself events during the 2006 playoffs that he wanted to make Austin a exclusive market for the Mavs? To the point of trying to badger Fox Sports into blacking out Spurs & Rockets games in Austin and showing only Mavs games here

But otherwise, you're right, Spurs marketing in Austin sucks

[lotr1trekkie]

I don't think it's coincidental that the Spurs bought their own farm team a year before the "big' transition' after next season. The obvious assumption is that they want to start developing players they can plug into their system next season and for years to come.
Does anyone have the info on how the league runs? Can the Spurs contract all the players? Can they assign a player from their regular roster there for an indefinite period or just for several games? Buford mentioned something about tweaking the rules to make it work for the Spurs? What was that about?

[ShoogarBear]

Why would a player ever want to play for a D-League team that's totally owned by an NBA franchise, unless he's already under contract to that franchise?

If I'm Joe Blow Freeagent, why would I want to play for the Toros if that prevents me from being called up by any other team except the Spurs?

[FromWayDowntown]

Why would a player ever want to play for a D-League team that's totally owned by an NBA franchise, unless he's already under contract to that franchise?

If I'm Joe Blow Freeagent, why would I want to play for the Toros if that prevents me from being called up by any other team except the Spurs?

I wonder that too. That's why I can't imagine that the Spurs would have exclusive rights to all of the players on the Toros roster -- I would imagine that they'll be exclusive with the guys that they send down; and I would imagine that they're trying to get the rules changed so that guys who are sent down won't occupy an NBA roster spot while in the NBDL. But I can't imagine that they get exclusive rights to every player on that roster; if they do, I can't imagine that they're going to get too many players to sign there.

[FromWayDowntown]

In looking at some of last year's call-ups, it seems clear that NBA teams can call-up any unallocated player in the D-League, whether there is an affiliation agreement between the NBA team and the D-League team. The Celtics, for example, were affiliated with the Austin club in 2006-07 (as far as I can tell) but called up a player from Bakersfield. With that said, I still am not sure about the effect on exclusivity of one NBA team owning the NBDL team; the Lakers' NBDL team didn't have any players called up last year, and the Lakers didn't (apparently) call up any D-League players.

[Fabbs]

Anyone have up to date info on this.
How many Austin Toros are "owned" by the Spurs?
How many can only sign with the Spurs?
I know Ian Manhimi is signed thru this season with the Spurs.
How about say All Stars Keith Langford and Jeremy Richardson, can any NBA team sign them or for now just the Spurs.

Chump is it still 4 players on the Toros can sign with only the Spurs exclusively while all others can sign with any NBA team.
Questions questions....

[ChumpDumper]

The only player on the Toros the Spurs "own" is Ian Mahimni. Any NBA team can sign any of the other Toros players. RC told me he eventually wants the NBA to change the rules to where the Spurs would have some rights to all the players on the Toros.

Jeremy Richardson is now back on Fort Wayne's D-LEague team and can also be signed by any team.

[Fabbs]

So the way it is now the Spurs are footing the bill but any team can pick (rob) the Toros fruit. I dont get it. The only real benefit the Spurs get is that its close by San Antone? Not saying that is a tiny benefit but since any team can sign any Toro (except Ian M), that seems strange, doesn't seem worth it for the Spurs to pay for the development of players that end up with other teams.
Earlier in the thread you were mentioning "4" per team.

[ChumpDumper]

That 4 per team was the number of players I thought the Toros were able to bring back from last season (the rule was changed : the number was raised and now includes allocated players in whatever ratio the team likes).

RC told me that that was one of he rules he wanted to have changed -- he would like to have some kind of right of first refusal over non-assigned Toros players. It seems like something that isn't going to change until a lot of teams run their own D-League teams - though I think if they changed the rule it could be used as an incentive for more NBA clubs to buy D-League teams.