jacque vaughn...bye bye

[coachmac87]

please tell me why the spurs are trying to re-sign him??? he does nothing for us!!! he cant score or play defense...he tries..but still cant guard anybody...i dont understand why people are talking about grant hill and another swing...last time i checked spurs had all of their swings under contract and they are old..hill doesnt make us better...not having a good back up pg is a weakness...what if parker goes down?? dont tell me u feel comfortable starting jacque vaughn!!! the only thing he has going for himself is that he hussels...this isnt highschool..in the nba..need more than hussle...he got a championship now time to move on!!! RC better not settle for vaughn....spurs cant get too comfortable with themselves..just because they won the championship doesnt mean ur ok for next season...why cant the spurs try to get better??? nothing wrong about getting better!!!! if the spurs do not do anything this offseason and just shrug it off and re-sign two players who did nothing for us ( bonner, and vaughn) chances of us repeating are slim..every team needs improvement..

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Dude it's a day into free agency. Chill.

[Russ]

The Spurs do best with smallish quick point guards behind TP. Like Speedy Claxton and Jacque Vaughn. Usually teams want the backup to be a change of pace -- but the Spurs work best with TP lite coming off the bench.

JV will be back. :)

[coachmac87]

Dude it's a day into free agency. Chill.

i kno but its doesnt settle well when i hear rc say they want him back...just going by what i am hearing

[timvp]

This seems like as good a place as any to post this Jacque Vaughn feel good article :)


Vaughn hopes to keep his Spurs on
Muir grad happy with NBA champs
By Sean Moses Staff Writer

For the last few years, July 1 has been more than just another day on the calendar for Jacque Vaughn.

As the first day NBA teams can negotiate with free agents, it's a day he knows quite well. After all, he's been an unrestricted free agent for five of the past six off-seasons.

It's been a far cry for Vaughn, an all-world point guard during his days at Muir High School in the early '90s, and later a highly touted player and Sports Illustrated cover boy for college powerhouse Kansas and first-round draft pick by the Utah Jazz.

But coming off his first world championship as a member of the San Antonio Spurs, Vaughn is undaunted and hopeful that his first year with the Spurs won't be his last.

"I definitely love this organization," Vaughn said from his San Antonio home. "I wish every guy could get a chance to play here. I feel like my talents are appreciated here. The character guys that are in the locker room, that's why we won it this year.

"I love this team and organization and I hope the feelings are mutual. My whole goal is to win. This is a franchise where I want to be, where I can compete for a championship."

Considering he was playing in the 1998 Finals during his rookie
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season, it's hard to believe it took so long for him to get back.

The nine-year pro's career began so promisingly, being taken as the 28th pick in the 1997 draft by the Jazz as the heir apparent to Hall of Fame guard John Stockton.

It was exactly what was supposed to happen for Vaughn, who was a star for the Mustangs and the 1994 Star-News boys basketball Player of the Year.

"We noticed his ability in the process while I was recruiting him," said North Carolina coach Roy Williams, the former Kansas coach who was a mentor to Vaughn throughout his collegiate career. "There was the air about him. And he's so sincere about everything. It started when I was recruiting him and I think with each year our relationship got stronger."

From Muir, Vaughn moved on to play four years for the Jayhawks, where he was named a second-team AP All-American. He finished his Kansas career as the all-time leader in assists (804), was third in career starts (125) and eighth in total minutes played (3,807).

He was named Big Eight (now Big 12) Conference Newcomer of the Year following his freshman year and Conference Player of the Year after his 1996 campaign. At the beginning of that season, he'd been featured on the cover of Sports Illustrated's College Basketball Preview edition as the face of Kansas, which was the top-ranked team in the nation for most of the 1995-96 season.

In 1997, he was chosen the GTE Academic All-American of the Year with a 3.72 cumulative GPA and was named to GTE's first team All-Academic team two different times.

"I think he's one of the most amazing youngsters I've coached, and it's a very small class," Williams said. "I could make a list of all the best qualities and Jacque Vaughn would be there.

"Any parent would want their daughter to date Jacque Vaughn. He's the best athlete I've ever coached. When someone mentions Jacque, it still hurts me cause I still feel like I didn't help him get to the Final Four. It leaves a hole in my career, that I was not able to get that (1997) team to the Final Four ... Every time someone mentions that team, I feel like I failed Jacque Vaughn and nobody should fail Jacque Vaughn."

It was set up so perfectly. But playing behind a legend like Stockton wasn't all it was cracked up to be for Vaughn who, for the first time in his life, had to play a secondary role to another player. It taught him how to be a role player, something in which he now thrives.

"I think that was part of the process," said Vaughn, 32. "At the beginning of your career, you want to make a name for yourself, you want to make people respect you. Winning in an organization takes roles.

"I played behind John Stockton. He would come out and I'd be playing well and they'd bring him back in and I'd wonder why. I'd see him do things and I wanted to do them myself. I wanted the OK to do the wraparound pass, too."

Vaughn played as a reserve for Utah for four seasons, and with Stockton still around and Vaughn's rookie contract expired, he became a free agent.

So began his career as an NBA nomad.

From the Jazz, he signed a one-year contract with the Atlanta Hawks for the 2001-02 season, in which he started 16 games after not having started any in Utah. He averaged just over 22 minutes per game and a career-high 4.3 assists per game.

The next season, he was in Orlando, where he started 48 games for the Magic but was not re-signed. In 2003, he signed again with the Hawks, this time in a reserve role.

His next team was the New Jersey Nets, with whom he played for consecutive seasons from 2004-2006, but after having drafted Marcus Williams, the Nets decided not to re-sign Vaughn.

So in 2006, he signed with the Spurs, who needed a backup veteran point guard behind all-star Tony Parker.

As a reserve for San Antonio, Vaughn played just under 12 minutes per game and started four, but the crowning achievement came weeks ago in winning his first title.

"It's an amazing feeling," he said. "I think as a professional athlete you want to be the best in your craft. And to go through an NBA season as the best is a great feeling."

But Vaughn is defined by much more than his basketball prowess. An avid fan of reading and writing poetry, the married father of two puts a high priority on family and education.

His parents wouldn't have it any other way.

"I think my parents, my upbringing, my brothers, have given me that kind of direction in life," he said. "I've always been taught to treat people in a respectful way. I'm mindful of other peoples' feelings and because of that a lot of good has come my way."

Like his wife of five years, Laura, and his two children, 16-month-old Jeremiah and Jalen, who turns 3 in September. They are who Jacque comes home to and it keeps him from going out at night and/or getting caught up in questionable behavior while on the road.

"I was very blessed to have met her in college," he said of his wife. "She's been on this journey with me and she'll be with me as I'm tailing away from my career."

Relying on his family has kept Vaughn focused on being a professional, even with all the hardships.

Through it all, Vaughn has no regrets and is simply thankful for the profession that's given him so much.

"I really am thankful for where I'm at and all that I've been able to do," he said. "I've been to other countries, I have a wife, two beautiful kids. I'm able to monetarily put my kids in a good situation in life.

"If I look back, I'd be a little greedy. A lot of people come up to me and ask me how I'm doing and it wouldn't be right if I complained, it really wouldn't be."

http://www.whittierdailynews.com/sports/ci_6273302

[coachmac87]

The Spurs do best with smallish quick point guards behind TP. Like Speedy Claxton and Jacque Vaughn. Usually teams want the backup to be a change of pace -- but the Spurs work best with TP lite coming off the bench.

JV will be back. :)


jacque vaughn is a change of pace!! he cant do shit...teams ignore him whenever he is on the court!! teams would rather guard bruce bowen than jacque vaughn...im sure he is a good guy but he has gotta go

[yavozerb]

please tell me why the spurs are trying to re-sign him??? he does nothing for us!!! he cant score or play defense...he tries..but still cant guard anybody...i dont understand why people are talking about grant hill and another swing...last time i checked spurs had all of their swings under contract and they are old..hill doesnt make us better...not having a good back up pg is a weakness...what if parker goes down?? dont tell me u feel comfortable starting jacque vaughn!!! the only thing he has going for himself is that he hussels...this isnt highschool..in the nba..need more than hussle...he got a championship now time to move on!!! RC better not settle for vaughn....spurs cant get too comfortable with themselves..just because they won the championship doesnt mean ur ok for next season...why cant the spurs try to get better??? nothing wrong about getting better!!!! if the spurs do not do anything this offseason and just shrug it off and re-sign two players who did nothing for us ( bonner, and vaughn) chances of us repeating are slim..every team needs improvement..

They will find another pg, but do not expect anybody great for the title of back pg..As to what JV does for the spurs I guess you left the room when this guy busts his ass eveytime he play defense, goes for loose balls, and simply leads the team with his energy. This is a guy you want on your side during a game and the spurs will re-sign him like it or not!!

[coachmac87]

This seems like as good a place as any to post this Jacque Vaughn feel good article :)

:cry good article....he can ride the bench as our third string pg....

[BradLohaus]

Who should be the backup PG instead of Vaughn?

[mikejones99]

Jacque is a good and cheap backup you idiots. goddam they have a great team, Quit trying to think it should be changed.

[coachmac87]

They will find another pg, but do not expect anybody great for the title of back pg..As to what JV does for the spurs I guess you left the room when this guy busts his ass eveytime he play defense, goes for loose balls, and simply leads the team with his energy. This is a guy you want on your side during a game and the spurs will re-sign him like it or not!!


brevin knight will bust his ass and the spurs will actually benefit from it...

[coachmac87]

Who should be the backup PG instead of Vaughn?

sadly....wouldnt mind beno :drunk

[coachmac87]

Jacque is a good and cheap backup you idiots. goddam they have a great team, Quit trying to think it should be changed.


since when are good things cheap???

[mowgli]

Brevin Knight would be great, but it's probably not likely. Still, kudos to Vaughn for being an adequate backup to TP during a championship run.

[FromWayDowntown]

I get the feelign that some Spurs fans won't be satisfied until Steve Nash is signed to be Tony Parker's backup. To them, a backup point isn't any good unless he's good enough to make the All-Star team, or, at the very least, unless he's able to put up 10 and 5 while shooting 50% and playing exceptional defense.

I thought before last season started that the Spurs would be much improved if they found a backup point who was just marginally better than Van Exel had been in 2005-06. Jacque Vaughn was more than that. I thought a lot of Vaughn's contributions were intangible, but the most important of those intangibles is that he gained Pop's trust, which allowed Pop to give Parker additional rest even in big games. I think that helped Parker significantly in the playoffs. If that's all that Jacque Vaughn does -- if he maintains Pop's trust because he's doing the right things on the court -- it makes the Spurs better.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Sign Chucky Atkins.

[MarCowMar]

Vaughn plays good D, can bring the ball up the court, and hits the open jumper. What more do you want from a backup at minimum wage? Sheesh. :)

[SequSpur]

jacque vaughn was okay, but shit the Spurs could do alot better at the backup pg position,.

[coachmac87]

I get the feelign that some Spurs fans won't be satisfied until Steve Nash is signed to be Tony Parker's backup. To them, a backup point isn't any good unless he's good enough to make the All-Star team, or, at the very least, unless he's able to put up 10 and 5 while shooting 50% and playing exceptional defense.

I thought before last season started that the Spurs would be much improved if they found a backup point who was just marginally better than Van Exel had been in 2005-06. Jacque Vaughn was more than that. I thought a lot of Vaughn's contributions were intangible, but the most important of those intangibles is that he gained Pop's trust, which allowed Pop to give Parker additional rest even in big games. I think that helped Parker significantly in the playoffs. If that's all that Jacque Vaughn does -- if he maintains Pop's trust because he's doing the right things on the court -- it makes the Spurs better.


not asking for an all-star guard....just asking somebody who can do something productive...besides hit open shots that the defense is letting u take..he did a par job as a backup...but why settle for par???

[timvp]

Vaughn re-signed for the minimum is a very good deal. More than that, I'm not sure.

[coachmac87]

and people have to consider the spurs had a great year health wise...what if somebody gets hurt?? spurs need to address their needs of depth.. and pg is one of them

[spurtime]

Jacque Vaughn always brings energy. I prefer him every 3rd game he plays in where his midrange jumper is falling, but he always brings defensive pressure and he rarely turns the ball over. I don't think we can ask for a whole lot more from a player that we paying the vet min to.

[FromWayDowntown]

not asking for an all-star guard....just asking somebody who can do something productive...besides hit open shots that the defense is letting u take..he did a par job as a backup...but why settle for par???

Because par was good enough to win a championship while Tony Parker flourished. Is there something wrong with a point guard who just runs the team, plays some d, and hits jumpers that the defense lets him take?

[coachmac87]

I Want Brevin Knight!!!

[spurtime]

I Want Brevin Knight!!!

Brevin Knight doesn't want you...Not for $1 mil/year at least.

[coachmac87]

Because par was good enough to win a championship while Tony Parker flourished. Is there something wrong with a point guard who just runs the team, plays some d, and hits jumpers that the defense lets him take?

he doesnt run the team....and he attempts to play defense...he couldnt guard any pg we put him on during the playoffs....and when jacque vaughn takes a jumpshot..i consider that a bad possesion...u hold ur breath everytime

[mikejones99]

It is very hard to find a player as good as Vaughn who does not need to shoot or get mad if he getrs limited minuted. He is the perfect veteran for the spurs and is good not great. Role players are required. Besides beno will improve and get more time if he stays.

[coachmac87]

well if he stays pop needs to stop with the
pg-vaughn
sg-manu
sf-bowen
pf-horry/elson
c-oberto

no more of that

[mikejones99]

yeah, pop dont know what the fuck he doin

[mavs>spurs2]

well if he stays pop needs to stop with the
pg-vaughn
sg-manu
sf-bowen
pf-horry/elson
c-oberto

no more of that

No offense in that lineup AT ALL besides Ginobili. And he's not really a first option.

[mikejones99]

crackhead dallas, gino and oberto can score and bowen and vaughn can hit the open j. besides it is great for defense so they don't have to score much

[coachmac87]

No offense in that lineup AT ALL besides Ginobili. And he's not really a first option.

yes i kno..that was pops way of "getting manu going" i hated it when he would do that...ur basically giving the other team a chance to make a run...pick and roll with manu all night long...

[coachmac87]

crackhead dallas, gino and oberto can score and bowen and vaughn can hit the open j. besides it is great for defense so they don't have to score much


ya since vaughn is a lockdown, alongside with oberto and horry... :smokin

spurs should always have 2 of the 3 on the court at all costs..

[exstatic]

Brevin Knight's jumper is WAY worse than Jacques'. Someone with the (misplaced) word coach in their handle should at least know the games of the players he's pimping.

[coachmac87]

Brevin Knight's jumper is WAY worse than Jacques'. Someone with the (misplaced) word coach in their handle should at least know the games of the players he's pimping.


did i ever say he could shot alot better than jacques??

nope..

jacque vaughn dreams about being the point guard brevin knight is

[exstatic]

did i ever say he could shot alot better than jacques??

nope..

jacque vaughn dreams about being the point guard brevin knight is
Jacques Vaughn IS the PG that Knight is. They're the same fucking player: quick ,heady playmakers who couldn't make a jumper to save their lives.

[timvp]

Vaughn shots 46.2% on jumpers in his first season with Chip. That's better than most point guard in the league.

Where Vaughn gets in trouble is when he tries to drive the ball to the basket.

If you want to compare, Manu shot 33% on his midrange jumpers and Parker shot 42.2% on his. I have no problem with Vaughn shooting his midrange jumper as he's one of the best on the team at hitting that shot.

[FromWayDowntown]

well if he stays pop needs to stop with the
pg-vaughn
sg-manu
sf-bowen
pf-horry/elson
c-oberto

no more of that

Just for the sake of reference, here are the closest combinations I can find to that one and how they fared in playoff games:

1. Pop used a lineup of

Vaughn
Ginobili
Bowen
Horry
Oberto

in 8 games for a total of 15:09 of playing time during the playoffs. That group was +8 during that time.

2. Pop used a lineup of

Vaughn
Ginobili
Finley
Horry
Oberto

in 5 games for a total of 14:46 of playing time. That group was +9 during that time.

3. Pop used a lineup of

Vaughn
Ginobili
Bowen
Barry
Oberto

in 4 games for a total of 6:40 of playing time. That group was +6 during that time.

4. Pop used a lineup of

Vaughn
Ginobili
Barry
Finley
Oberto

in 4 games for a total of 5:20 of playing time. That group was +1 during that time.

5. Pop used a lineup of

Vaughn
Barry
Bowen
Elson
Oberto

in 1 game for a total of 4:08 of playing time. That group was +2 during that time.

6. Pop used a lineup of

Vaughn
Ginobili
Bowen
Finley
Oberto

in 1 game for a total of 1:46 of playing time. That group was +2 during that time.


Feel free to go searching for other combinations: http://www.nba.com/statistics/lenovo/lenovo_sort.jsp?pcomb=5&season=42006&split=9&team=Spurs&pager.offset=25

[coachmac87]

Just for the sake of reference, here are the closest combinations I can find to that one and how they fared in playoff games:

1. Pop used a lineup of

Vaughn
Ginobili
Bowen
Horry
Oberto

in 8 games for a total of 15:09 of playing time during the playoffs. That group was +8 during that time.

2. Pop used a lineup of

Vaughn
Ginobili
Finley
Horry
Oberto

in 5 games for a total of 14:46 of playing time. That group was +9 during that time.

3. Pop used a lineup of

Vaughn
Ginobili
Bowen
Barry
Oberto

in 4 games for a total of 6:40 of playing time. That group was +6 during that time.

4. Pop used a lineup of

Vaughn
Ginobili
Barry
Finley
Oberto

in 4 games for a total of 5:20 of playing time. That group was +1 during that time.

5. Pop used a lineup of

Vaughn
Barry
Bowen
Elson
Oberto

in 1 game for a total of 4:08 of playing time. That group was +2 during that time.

6. Pop used a lineup of

Vaughn
Ginobili
Bowen
Finley
Oberto

in 1 game for a total of 1:46 of playing time. That group was +2 during that time.


Feel free to go searching for other combinations: http://www.nba.com/statistics/lenovo/lenovo_sort.jsp?pcomb=5&season=42006&split=9&team=Spurs&pager.offset=25

those were pointless...and those numbers are not productive

[exstatic]

those were pointless...and those numbers are not productive
In the playoffs, those + numbers are fucking HUGE. The games are closer and much more tightly contested.

[FromWayDowntown]

those were pointless

Why? Because they just torpedoed your argument?

Anyway . . .


...and those numbers are not productive

That was Vaughn playing with the sort of bad offensive units that you're worried about. And, somehow, with those bad offensive units, the Spurs outscored their opponents.

I'll take a backup point guard who can give me a positive plus/minus every day of the week. If you don't understand the value of that, you didn't watch the 2006 Western Conference Semifinal series against Dallas very closely.

Even if it's only +1 or +2, it's substantially better than falling behind because Parker is on the bench -- particularly because the Spurs are generally going to outscore their opponents when Parker is on the floor.

[coachmac87]

Why? Because they just torpedoed your argument?

Anyway . . .



That was Vaughn playing with the sort of bad offensive units that you're worried about. And, somehow, with those bad offensive units, the Spurs outscored their opponents.

I'll take a backup point guard who can give me a positive plus/minus every day of the week. If you don't understand the value of that, you didn't watch the 2006 Western Conference Semifinal series against Dallas very closely.

Even if it's only +1 or +2, it's substantially better than falling behind because Parker is on the bench -- particularly because the Spurs are generally going to outscore their opponents when Parker is on the floor.



ok ok ok ok...all that said...JACQUE VAUGHN IS GARBAGE!!!

[FromWayDowntown]

ok ok ok ok...all that said...JACQUE VAUGHN IS GARBAGE!!!

Except when he's helping the Spurs win championships.

But please, front office, whatever you do this summer, be sure to bring in someone, anyone but Jacque Vaughn!!! Coachmac can't stand that the Spurs just have a very steady guy playing the point and that they get consistent but never spectacular play from that guy. We need some flash, baby -- more steals, more penetration, more threes!!!

[coachmac87]

Except when he's helping the Spurs win championships.

But please, front office, whatever you do this summer, be sure to bring in someone, anyone but Jacque Vaughn!!! Coachmac can't stand that the Spurs just have a very steady guy playing the point and that they get consistent but never spectacular play from that guy. We need some flash, baby -- more steals, more penetration, more threes!!!


ya spurs wouldnt have a title without jacque vaughn!! and hell yea ill take more steals, assists, penetration....and GO FOR 3!!!

[coachmac87]

:new word... torpedoed!! :lol :lol :lol thanks fromwaydowntown

[timvp]

ok ok ok ok...all that said...JACQUE VAUGHN IS GARBAGE!!!

Worst response in internets history. Bring it like you mean it couchmac87 or don't bring it at all.


:smokin

[timvp]

:new word... torpedoed!! :lol :lol :lol thanks fromwaydowntown

I spoke too soon.

[BradLohaus]

Where Vaughn gets in trouble is when he tries to drive the ball to the basket. I have no problem with Vaughn shooting his midrange jumper as he's one of the best on the team at hitting that shot.

Exactly. Dribble the ball up and pass it. If it comes back to you and you are wide open, shoot it. Never ever drive the ball to the basket. Play defense and hustle. If Vaughn does all of that next year then he will be a fine backup PG for this team. Plus it will be his second year in the system.

For everyone who wants to ship out Jacque - I don't know what you want from a backup PG. Their job is to run the offense, not turn the ball over, hit open shots, play at least decent defense, and just generally not screw things up. Vaughn did all of that well last year. Why bring in someone new who would be a marginal upgrade at best? Or maybe the new guy can't fit in at all. With Vaughn you know what you are getting.

[spurster]

After playing well in the second half of the regular season, Vaughn's offense sucked during the playoffs with the key advantage of not sucking as much as Beno. His defense was ok except that he couldn't even slow down Nash. But like almost every player that comes to the Spurs, he should be better in his second year. It is fool's gold to expect a new player to fully adapt to the Spurs in his first year.

[jag]

Not too sure why people prefer knight over vaughn, they have the same fuckin game. If you want different, then get chucky atkins, but i promise if you dont like Vaughn's game, youre not going to like Knights.

Vaughn will suffice.

[Loose Cannon]

ok ok ok ok...all that said...JACQUE VAUGHN IS GARBAGE!!!

Well, I'm convinced.

[mavs>spurs2]

crackhead dallas, gino and oberto can score and bowen and vaughn can hit the open j. besides it is great for defense so they don't have to score much

We all know Ginobili can score, but Oberto??? :lol

Vaughn can sometimes hit the open j, but Bowen can only hit it from the corners and that's if TD is in the game to draw double teams. No one in that lineup besides Ginobili can create their own shot to save their lives.

Why am I arguing with the village idiot again?

[dknights411]

Vaughn did what he was supposed to do last year, and gave us some quality minutes as well. He's fine. Get off his case!!!

Geez, this Vaughn hate is completley stupid.

[jag]

We all know Ginobili can score, but Oberto??? :lol

Vaughn can sometimes hit the open j, but Bowen can only hit it from the corners and that's if TD is in the game to draw double teams. No one in that lineup besides Ginobili can create their own shot to save their lives.

Why am I arguing with the village idiot again?

Someone's got to...

[bigdog]

jacque runs the point very well, and is a very good defender. he hustles and isnt afraid to take an open jumper. he isn't the best, but he does what the spurs ask him to do. i couldnt ask for more than that

[hsxvvd]

Keep Vaughn. A smart, reliable back-up. If it ain't broken? Why fix it?

[my2sons]

sadly....wouldnt mind beno :drunk
ya brevin had such an incredible year leading his team to the playoffs and winning so many games...oh nevermind

[Brutalis]

If there's no better option then just sign and clause 'no shooting'

[Nathan Explosion]

I thought I heard that Devin Harris was available, although I'm trying to confirm that and can't at the moment.

He'd be a nice fit I think. He's young, so mistakes will be made, but he's not a bad defender and he's just as quick as Parker. If you want Parker lite, Harris is it.

Again, not sure if he's available, but I wouldn't mind that signing were it to happen. Problem is, he may be too expensive if he's free to leave.

Just throwing it out there.

[Nathan Explosion]

Devin Harris, Dallas Mavericks (restricted)

It’s likely the Mavericks would match any offer made to Harris, but a team like the Atlanta Hawks could get a little crazy and make him an offer the Mavs would politely refuse. Harris hasn’t quite fulfilled all their expectations, but his inconsistency seems to be getting better – just not quite as fast as the team had hoped.

http://www.hoopsworld.com/article_22383.shtml

I see he's a restricted free agent. Even if the Spurs were dead set on getting him, it would be tough to get him because you know Cuban wouldn't want him to go to the Spurs unless they offered an outrageous deal.

Oh well. No big loss I guess.

[BeerIsGood!]

brevin knight will bust his ass and the spurs will actually benefit from it...

So you want to replace a reserve PG with proven Championship experience, proven endurance and resilience, and proven leadership skills who knows the offense with an injury prone, unproven PG with a worse jump shot?


There should be a pre-requisite class of Basketball 101 necessary to post here. You and quite a few others here know absolutely nothing about basketball and talk completely out of your ass. You should be the butt of an ESPN commercial about talking out of your ass.

[BeerIsGood!]

No one in that lineup besides Ginobili can create their own shot to save their lives.



I guess you've never seen Tony Parker play. His game is predicated on creating his own shot.

[Death In June]

Vaughn does need to go, he's a detriment and a liability to the team. He takes way too many shot attempts and makes too many mental errors/turnovers. Winning a championship has probably erased how awful this guy was from your mind, but he's easily the worst player on the squad.

[BeerIsGood!]

Basketball 101 sign up sheet - Class starts early so be on time

1) coachmac87
2) Death In June
3) ???

[mavs>spurs2]

I guess you've never seen Tony Parker play. His game is predicated on creating his own shot.

:lol He was talking about a lineup of vaughn, ginobili, bowen, horry, and oberto.

[T Park]

but he's easily the worst player on the squad.

hes not worse than elson and udrih

wrong wrong wrong

[cecil collins]

Vaughn plays good D, can bring the ball up the court, and hits the open jumper. What more do you want from a backup at minimum wage? Sheesh. :)
Every now and again. He deserves vet minimum, not 1.7 mill.

[cecil collins]

[QUOTE=BeerIsGood!]So you want to replace a reserve PG with proven Championship experience, proven endurance and resilience, and proven leadership skills who knows the offense with an injury prone, unproven PG with a worse jump shot?
QUOTE]
Championship experience? That means that teams should be fighting like mad for the services of Brent Barry. Why don't we trade our champions, Vaughn, Barry, and Elson for KG? He was a glorified babysitter. Why do people overplay his importance in the playoffs?

[BeerIsGood!]

[QUOTE=BeerIsGood!]So you want to replace a reserve PG with proven Championship experience, proven endurance and resilience, and proven leadership skills who knows the offense with an injury prone, unproven PG with a worse jump shot?
QUOTE]
Championship experience? That means that teams should be fighting like mad for the services of Brent Barry. Why don't we trade our champions, Vaughn, Barry, and Elson for KG? He was a glorified babysitter. Why do people overplay his importance in the playoffs?

I don't remember seeing Tony Parker play 48 minutes a game throughout the playoffs and the Finals, and during the time he wasn't in there was this little guy named Vaughn who was playing defense, running the offense, and being a leader on and off the court. He knocked down open jumpshots at a consistent pace as the playoffs went on. I don't see how you can downplay his importance.

I was responding to the guy who wanted Brevin Knight to replace Vaughn - the same Brevin Knight who has a worse jumpshot and is constantly injured. The thing about Vaughn is that we know that he can come in to spell TP and run the offense, play defense, and play close to mistake free. That's the Championship experience, and for a fraction of what Knight would cost. He knows the offense and has the confidence of his coach and team.

Look, I'm not saying that the Spurs shouldn't be looking for another reserve point guard, I just think they should retain Vaughn as long as the price is right and find a way to get another PG by way of getting rid of Beno. IMO this would be the perfect situation to take a chance on a young, big PG if the Spurs can find one. The Spurs don't need another PG scorer, and definitely don't need a PG chucker. They need a big PG who can run the offense during spot minutes and effectively match up against the bigger PG of the league (such as Utah's Deron Williams). Right now the Spurs have one star PG and one solid backup, but they're both small and have trouble defensively with bigger guards.

[cecil collins]

Royal Ivey is the answer. He has a subpar jumpshot, minimal dribbling skills, but he's athletic, 6'4, and very defensive minded. I don't mind Vaughn unless he starts getting more credit, and money then he deserves.

[Borosai]

Vaughn isn't spectacular, but he's solid.

Sign him up! He has BAROY written all over him.

[whottt]

Sign him up! He has BAROY written all over him.


Ok but only if he promises to wash it off...that's kind of a strange thing to have written all over him.

[whottt]

Hopefully Vaughn won't think he deserves to be paid more than he deserves to be paid...

I hated the guy in the early part of the season, in fact I think I disliked seeing him come into the game just about more than I have any player to suit up for the Spurs in the Duncan era, but he won me over during SPAM.

He hits his shots consistently when teams dare him to shoot...it's not that easy to find guys who can do that, and I think he surprised everyone, including the Spurs brass...with his ability to hit them consistently. TimVP posted his PCT on his midrange...I think his PCT when he was open and being dared to shoot was much higher...I think over 50% during the playoffs, and I was watching that pretty closely as that has been an important thing to me since the Drob era. IF you have role players that can simply hit their open shots on a team with Tim Duncan...Tim Duncan(and Parker and Manu) will take care of the rest.

Vaughn is a must sign unless he asks for more than he's worth. It'd be so nice if he would be an easy signing and eliminate that worry(and cap space issues) from the off season.

[GhostofAlfrederickHughes]

For the record:

Nick van Exel in 2006 playoffs:
133 min, 7-32 FG, 3-10 3ptFG, 17 assists, 5 turnovers.

Vaughn in 2007:

209 min, 20-50 FG, 0-0 3ptFG, 28 assists, 11 turnovers.
Oh, and one championship ring.


Point being, JV was far better suited to the backup PG role for the Spurs than the 'savvy veteran' NVE. And that doesn't even consider his defense---NVE had none in the '06 playoffs. Now, if you can get someone better for the same cost, who's willing to play that role, fine with me. But don't bash the guy over his allegedly poor stats----the facts don't bear that out.

[Solid D]

Thread needed clue implants.

[exstatic]

Every now and again. He deserves vet minimum, not 1.7 mill.
Uh, vet mil is like $1.4. When you factor in a standard raise, you're definitely within shouting distance of $1.7.

[michaelwcho]

It's unrealistic to expect better than Vaughn. He had some poor moments, but he also stepped up and hit some key shots and made some key decisions. I'd rather have someone who's proved he can sometimes make the right play under pressure than someone with "upside".

reading the article, it really brigngs up the mystery of the draft and talent. I wonder if he would have been a better player if he got PT on his first few years, instead of going to an elite team. what causes someone who was so dominant and good fall so much when he hits the NBA?

[AFBlue]

Bring back Vaughn for around the vet min and a two year deal with a team option in yr 2.

Then throw a little extra at the Bulls during the Nocion S&T talks to also grab Duhon.

[BigBeezie]

The Spurs need Vaughn to come back. If he gets complacent and stinks then just trade him.

[K-State Spur]

The weird thing is that despite the general consensus of this board being that Vaughn sucks and Claxton is near a deity, Vaughn basically did what everybody loved of Speedy. Hustled - played defense - hit open 15 footers when nobody was in the same zip code as him. And - a big difference - Vaughn did it over the entire season instead of half.

That said...I would love to upgrade the back-up PG and drop Vaughn back to 3rd string.

But if he can be had for near the minimum again, I think he should come back either way. And we can do (and have done) a lot worse than him as the primary back-up as well.

[whottt]

The weird thing is that despite the general consensus of this board being that Vaughn sucks and Claxton is near a deity, Vaughn basically did what everybody loved of Speedy. Hustled - played defense - hit open 15 footers when nobody was in the same zip code as him. And - a big difference - Vaughn did it over the entire season instead of half.

That said...I would love to upgrade the back-up PG and drop Vaughn back to 3rd string.

But if he can be had for near the minimum again, I think he should come back either way. And we can do (and have done) a lot worse than him as the primary back-up as well.


That's because Speedy Claxton is the most over-rated player in Spurs history...and you are right...Vaughn basically did the same thing Speedy did...only Vaughn did them more often.

[lotr1trekkie]

WAYDOWNTOWN hit a 3 pointer with time running out. We don't need a competion for #2 and #3 point guard[whoever that will be]. Vaughn is solid and he probably one of the only players I remember who could come in and master the system at point in his first year. We don't need a trainee next season.

[intlspurshk]

JV suck but no other good alternative at veteran minimum. SPURS doesn't want to pay more than veteran minimum unless Beno can be traded. So let's pray JV accepts minimum again.

[yavozerb]

Those JV haters on this site might like this:

Clippers looking for point guard help
Monday, Jul 2, 2007 12:52 pm EDT

Getty Images
The Los Angeles Clippers probably will not land a significant player unless they make a trade. They only have the $5.5 midlevel exception to sign a player, and it does not appear there is a key free-agent point guard they can get for that.

Among the free-agent point guards the Clippers could try to land are Steve Blake (Denver Nuggets), Chucky Atkins (Memphis Grizzlies) or Jacque Vaughn (San Antonio Spurs). They also have not closed the door on Jason Hart, who filled in well after the loss of Shaun Livingston to multiple knee injuries.

Source: L.A. Daily News

Related: Jason Hart, Steve Blake, Chucky Atkins, Jacque Vaughn, Denver Nuggets, Memphis Grizzlies, San Antonio Spurs

Email this Rumor More NBA Rumors

[spurster]

For the record:

Nick van Exel in 2006 playoffs:
133 min, 7-32 FG, 3-10 3ptFG, 17 assists, 5 turnovers.

Vaughn in 2007:

209 min, 20-50 FG, 0-0 3ptFG, 28 assists, 11 turnovers.
Oh, and one championship ring.


For comparison, Claxton in 2003:

326 min, 46-105 FG, 0-0 3ptFG, 33-44 FT, 45 assists, 24 turnovers

(NVE was 9-9 FT, JV was 3-6 FT)

Maybe not enough to be a deity, but certainly better than Vaughn offensively. I agree Vaughn is better defensively, so with his stats, he ended up being adequate at backup PG. We can always wish for more, but JV should be good enough for next season.

[whottt]

Maybe not enough to be a deity, but getting more minutes than Vaughn


Fixed...Speedy really only made an impact in one game. And in fact he helped not at all at other times, which was why Kerr got minutes.

[Solid D]

From a couple of weeks ago. http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=71212
Vaughn was one of the reasons Pop was able to use a 10-man rotation in the playoffs. Jacque had the best Assist/TO ratio on the team in the playoffs.