Bogut takes shot at NBA players, U.S. culture

[fitzgerald]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19548613/

You know, I kind of agree with him. Modesty and class doesn't exist anymore. It is all about showboating and flaunting. Not all players are like that but lots of them are.

[ObiwanGinobili]

I totally agree with his comments.
most people will be just be mad because he is not an American and is saying this (like it;s ok to comment about your own, but not comment about others mentality) but he;s speaking the truth.
The whole show-off wealth, bling bling, Cribs, look! look! at me ! see what I got ! it;s bigger and shinier than all the rest! attitude is pervasive and destructive.

Props to him.

thast why I am a Spurs fan.

[cornbread]

Sounds like Matt Bonner with an attitude. I like it!

[PM5K]

He said he bought a car himself so what the fuck?

Why make millions of dollars if you aren't going to spend some of it?

[DarkReign]

He said he bought a car himself so what the fuck?

Why make millions of dollars if you aren't going to spend some of it?

Most will be broke 5 years after retiring.

[Findog]

He said he bought a car himself so what the fuck?

Why make millions of dollars if you aren't going to spend some of it?

He's not criticizing people for making money.

[PM5K]

But he is for spending it, why make money if you aren't even allowed to spend it?

Most will be broke, since when did he become an economics professor, since when does he know how much guys save, or donate to charities, etc?

[MI21]

:lol

Bogut is funny. He comes across very arrogant, but it's kind of just how many Australians are. We tend to tell each other how it is, and that doesn't go down when we tell people of other cultures how it is.

Anyway, I don't know if I agree with him or not, I can't be bothered deeply thinking about it. But it's funny to read his quotes.

Related note, he is a very good player, who is not being utilised correctly in Milwaukee. I'd love to see him on another team where some of the offense is run through him, he is an incredible passer. He'd fit the triangle in LA very well.

[Findog]

But he is for spending it, why make money if you aren't even allowed to spend it?

Most will be broke, since when did he become an economics professor, since when does he know how much guys save, or donate to charities, etc?

I think he's criticizing the NBA lifestyle, ostentatious displays of wealth, having no social conscience, etc. He didn't call out anybody by name.

[Extra Stout]

He said he bought a car himself so what the fuck?

Why make millions of dollars if you aren't going to spend some of it?
Many Americans think wealth is the possession of material luxuries.

This plays right into the hands of those who understand how to accumulate real, sustainable wealth. They separate the fools from their money, in exchange for trinkets.

You don't have wealth when you buy a Benz or move into a mansion. You have wealth when you have so much money that it makes its own money.

The smart athletes have enough capital when they retire to be businessmen and investors.

[Extra Stout]

I think he's criticizing the NBA lifestyle, ostentatious displays of wealth, having no social conscience, etc. He didn't call out anybody by name.
If more athletes could achieve real, sustainable wealth, this also would increase their leverage for social action.

[Findog]

If more athletes could achieve real, sustainable wealth, this also would increase their leverage for social action.

Seriously, give me a million dollars, and with the right financial planning, I'll turn it into $10 million. I'd get nice things for sure, but I wouldn't blow it all so I could show off something ridiculous on Cribs.

[Findog]

If more athletes could achieve real, sustainable wealth, this also would increase their leverage for social action.

Except I think that not a lot of athletes give a shit about social issues. For every Etan Thomas or Adonal Foyle, there's a Michael Jordan, who refused to endorse Jesse Helm's opponent for Senate, because as he said "Republicans buy shoes too." Or LeBron James, who refused to sign the Darfur petition, because Phil Knight owns his ass. Interesting that it's the fringe guys like Thomas, Foyle and Ira Newble who are taking stands and not the guys who have so much money they could never spend it all even if they tried.

LeBron is building an amusement park/casino for his residence, for god's sake. I think this is exactly what Bogut is talking about, even though he didn't mention or had LeBron in mind specifically. He doesn't respect the game enough to work on his flaws, he wants to be a "global icon," whatever that means. LeBron has the talent to be the best player to ever lace up sneakers, but right now he's too distracted by all the side bullshit.

[Spurminator]

Give me a million dollars and I'd never work another day in my life.

[Extra Stout]

Give me a million dollars and I'd never work another day in my life.
You mean working for someone, right? Managing your portfolio isn't exactly a leisure activity.

[Spurminator]

I don't know... I feel like I could live off the interest of some pretty low-risk mutual funds.

Can't say I've given it much thought.

[E20]

This is true that since I've been living in the States I constantly want money, which is a bad thing........I guess. I mean I'm fucking buying 2 lotto tickets every week. LMAO

[Leetonidas]

If he doesn't like it then he should take his ass back to Australia. I don't necessarily disagree with Bogut, but what's next? Damir Markota is going to start saying McDonald's sucks and Bill Gates is evil? If you don't like the culture or the state of the NBA, then don't be a hypocrite and go back home.

[Extra Stout]

If he doesn't like it then he should take his ass back to Australia. I don't necessarily disagree with Bogut, but what's next? Damir Markota is going to start saying McDonald's sucks and Bill Gates is evil? If you don't like the culture or the state of the NBA, then don't be a hypocrite and go back home.
That doesn't make any sense. If I criticize some aspect of American culture, do I then have to enter some kind of self-imposed exile?

[E20]

If he doesn't like it then he should take his ass back to Australia. I don't necessarily disagree with Bogut, but what's next? Damir Markota is going to start saying McDonald's sucks and Bill Gates is evil? If you don't like the culture or the state of the NBA, then don't be a hypocrite and go back home.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't the USA done that a lot? Criticize and give their opnions on how other people run their culture and country? And even gone to the extreme to reform them to their own ideals?

[Findog]

That doesn't make any sense. If I criticize some aspect of American culture, do I then have to enter some kind of self-imposed exile?

According to right-wing fucktards, yes.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

If he doesn't like it then he should take his ass back to Australia. I don't necessarily disagree with Bogut, but what's next? Damir Markota is going to start saying McDonald's sucks and Bill Gates is evil? If you don't like the culture or the state of the NBA, then don't be a hypocrite and go back home.awww thats nice! haven't you ever heard about freedom of expression Einstein? its only what your nation is built on. Seriously, some of you folks should start investigating some more on that whole "Land of the free" thing you like to throw around... its not the land of the free from criticism that's for damn sure.

and what he's saying is entirely true, specially in the NBA. Everyone knows it, and those who claim they don't are lying

[Leetonidas]

awww thats nice! haven't you ever heard about freedom of expression Einstein? its only what your nation is built on. Seriously, some of you folks should start investigating some more on that whole "Land of the free" thing you like to throw around... its not the land of the free from criticism that's for damn sure.

and what he's saying is entirely true, specially in the NBA. Everyone knows it, and those who claim they don't are lying
I realize that, but if you were so much in disagreement with the way things were done, you'd most likely leave. Like I said, I don't disagree with the man, and I certainly respect his right to express himself, but really, if he's going to criticize the league and the people who play in it as being too vain and materialistic, he shouldn't play in it.

[Findog]

if he's going to criticize the league and the people who play in it as being too vain and materialistic, he shouldn't play in it.

Well, at least you're being consistent..i.e. Mark Cuban and his constant criticisms of league policy. But I don't get it...who cares?

[MaNuMaNiAc]

I realize that, but if you were so much in disagreement with the way things were done, you'd most likely leave. Like I said, I don't disagree with the man, and I certainly respect his right to express himself, but really, if he's going to criticize the league and the people who play in it as being too vain and materialistic, he shouldn't play in it.first of all, he didn't criticize the league, he criticized the players, and some of them not all them. Second, what does one thing have to do with the other? He's got an opinion, thats all, it has nothing to do with him playing or not playing in the league.

[PM5K]

I'm glad I'm also a Spurs fan OBI, because all of the Spurs live on the Southside and drive Ford Pintos.....

It's so stupid to invest your money in a crib, everyone knows realestate is a bad investment, and spending 80K dollars on a car when you only make 16 Million is absurd...

And I am SOOO tired of hearing about all of the players from five years ago who are broke, they don't even get a pension or anything....

:rolleyes

[Leetonidas]

Eh, Bogut can have his own opinion, I will have my own opinion on it, and you can have an opinion on that. Fair enough?

[PM5K]

Bogut can have an opinion when he starts playing like a number one draft pick, he can't go around and showboat because he doesn't play well enough...

[DarkReign]

I realize that, but if you were so much in disagreement with the way things were done, you'd most likely leave. Like I said, I don't disagree with the man, and I certainly respect his right to express himself, but really, if he's going to criticize the league and the people who play in it as being too vain and materialistic, he shouldn't play in it.

Im not trying to pile on here, but that last sentence is golden.

I assume you work at a company full of people you adhore and admire?

Because most people hate their jobs, hate the people they work with but still do their job without quitting because its a job they need.

Where else can Bogut make millions of dollars in the world?

Same kinda thing.

[Leetonidas]

Im not trying to pile on here, but that last sentence is golden.

I assume you work at a company full of people you adhore and admire?

Because most people hate their jobs, hate the people they work with but still do their job without quitting because its a job they need.

Where else can Bogut make millions of dollars in the world?

Same kinda thing.
I'm 17 dude, and I quit my last job like 8 months ago because it conflicted with school.

[Findog]

I'm 17 dude.

Your posting history makes so much more sense now.

[bdictjames]

Bogut should do this when he averages a consistent 20 and 10 a game. Then people will actually look at him as a role model, and not just one random person's opinion

[PM5K]

Bogut should do this when he averages a consistent 20 and 10 a game. Then people will actually look at him as a role model, and not just one random person's opinion

That's what I'm saying, you gotta be rich, and be good first, how can he talk about show boating when he isn't that good (yet) and he certainly as a rookie isn't very rich either (rookie contract I mean)...

[MaNuMaNiAc]

I'm 17 dude, and I quit my last job like 8 months ago because it conflicted with school.dude... a disclaimer like that should always precede any post you make. In fact, I think you should just put the above post in your signature.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

That's what I'm saying, you gotta be rich, and be good first, how can he talk about show boating when he isn't that good (yet) and he certainly as a rookie isn't very rich either (rookie contract I mean)...
right... because only rich people can voice their opinion huh? rest of us should just shut up. He's an NBA player, I'd say he probably knows more about the subject than you, does that mean you should just shut up about him?


EDIT: wait... how old are you?

[Findog]

right... because only rich people can voice their opinion huh? rest of us should just shut up. He's an NBA player, I'd say he probably knows more about the subject than you, does that mean you should just shut up about him?


EDIT: wait... how old are you?

In other words, Tim Duncan and Kobe Bryant are the only people in the NBA qualified to comment on anything. I'd love to hear Kobe's thoughts on consent. :p:

[cornbread]

That's what I'm saying, you gotta be rich, and be good first, how can he talk about show boating when he isn't that good (yet) and he certainly as a rookie isn't very rich either (rookie contract I mean)...
Wrong. There are plenty of players who are not as good as Bogut, get paid less than Bogut, but who are still showboaters.

[PM5K]

What I'm saying is that it's easy to say for example:

When I get rich I'm going to stay grounded, not go out and party all night, spend my money on junk, and act like an arrogant ass, but I think it means a lot more when you are actually rich and back up what you say.

[samikeyp]

I wish I "only" made the money in an NBA rookie contract. :)

[cornbread]

$10 million over the last 2 years, plus endorsements, for a 22 year old kid is not rich enough to back it up???

[MaNuMaNiAc]

What I'm saying is that it's easy to say for example:

When I get rich I'm going to stay grounded, not go out and party all night, spend my money on junk, and act like an arrogant ass, but I think it means a lot more when you are actually rich and back up what you say.you mean the kind of money he's making now is not rich enough for ya?? I think you should just quit while you're behind bro

[TDMVPDPOY]

I
And I am SOOO tired of hearing about all of the players from five years ago who are broke, they don't even get a pension or anything....

:rolleyes

i think players who qualify teh amount of years in the league gets the pension from the nba.....

[leemajors]

damn why did he have to be taken off all ignore?!!?

[judaspriestess]

Bogut blames the U.S. culture of greed and arrogance for part of the problem, the newspaper reported.

I hear this quite a bit from foreign nationals that I meet here in Vegas. They say they like America but the arrogance is really annoying.


Bogut is funny. He comes across very arrogant, but it's kind of just how many Australians are. We tend to tell each other how it is, and that doesn't go down when we tell people of other cultures how it is.

Funny, every Australian I've ever met here in Vegas are beyond arrogant and just mean. Could be the alcohol talking. I did work with one Aussie guy who was a complete prejudice dickhead and he thought he was so hot bucktoothed and all. He teeth were so fucked up.

[whottt]

It's good to know Bogut isn't here for the money and prestige like all the other players. And it's equally good to know he is above mass stereotyping and generalizations...

[whottt]

I'm also pretty impressed by Bogut not taking the easy way out by staying in college...like all the other bling bling ballas do.

[whottt]

We are so lucky that Bogut, even though he's too good for us and above American greed...was kind enough to sacrifice his college education and NBL career to educate us on how fucked up we are. Thanks Andy...

[whottt]

Where else can Bogut make millions of dollars in the world?

Same kinda thing.


So basically...he's just like every other guy in the NBA...all about the bling.

[td4mvp21]

Bogut is just the perfect player.

[G-Money]

And he is come kind of saint right? If he doesn't like it here then he can leave.

[RighteousBoy]

"Bogut blames the U.S. culture of greed and arrogance for part of the problem, the newspaper reported."

U.S. called a culture of greed and arrogance, after giving nearly $300 billion in charitable donations in 2007.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/06/25/charitable.giving.ap/index.html

I guess I can't expect him to be the most informed person - could always take him to New Laredo and Southcross, give him a quick education on how alot of the arrogant/greedy americans really live.

[whottt]

awww thats nice! haven't you ever heard about freedom of expression Einstein? its only what your nation is built on. Seriously, some of you folks should start investigating some more on that whole "Land of the free" thing you like to throw around... its not the land of the free from criticism that's for damn sure.

and what he's saying is entirely true, specially in the NBA. Everyone knows it, and those who claim they don't are lying




Why do you have a problem with EssaySpur utilizing his freedom of speech?


Oh I get it...Freedom of speech is a one way street...Bogut is allowed to be critical but we aren't allowed to be critical back...or have an opinion on what he should do...

I get it.


And no...what everyone knows...is it's jealousy, because we frequently get called decadent and arrogant by the most decadent and arrogant countries in the world, that can't handle being surpassed. Socially, economically...technologically. And we are nowhere near as arrogant, elitist, or decadent.


Anyway...many of the things Bogut was being critical of were aspects of the hip hop culture which is largely a black movement...and definitely in terms of origination...

Why doesn't he just say he doesn't like Black People?

I know he's not used to them since they don't have them in Australia...or Argentina...and if they do they probably aren't wealthy.


We already had that culture clash decades ago, and accepted the diffences...to each their own.

[whottt]

"Bogut blames the U.S. culture of greed and arrogance for part of the problem, the newspaper reported."

U.S. called a culture of greed and arrogance, after giving nearly $300 billion in charitable donations in 2007.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/06/25/charitable.giving.ap/index.html

I guess I can't expect him to be the most informed person - could always take him to New Laredo and Southcross, give him a quick education on how alot of the arrogant/greedy americans really live.


They always cite that the US Government doesn't give as great a PCT of it's wealth as a lot of the other mega economies...and they never print the astronomical contributions of the private sector of Americans give...that put us as a country far and away the most charitable country on Earth PCT wise.


And the contributions from the US Citizens completely destroy those of any other citizens countries in the Western World. PCT and Gross.

Good job of finding that info. Doesn't keep us from being hated or called greedy and arrogant(by the greedy and arrogant)...but at least we know they're wrong and are either jealous or uninformed(both is my guess).


My advice...beware of the mega millionaire lecturing you on the evil decadence of greed...he is speaking of the battle in his own heart. Ditto citizens of countries that elect those types of individuals as their leaders.

[Leetonidas]

Why do you have a problem with EssaySpur utilizing his freedom of speech?


Oh I get it...Freedom of speech is a one way street...Bogut is allowed to be critical but we aren't allowed to be critical back...or have an opinion on what he should do...

I get it.


And no...what everyone knows...is it's jealousy, because we frequently get called decadent and arrogant by the most decadent and arrogant countries in the world, that can't handle being surpassed. Socially, economically...technologically. And we are nowhere near as arrogant, elitist, or decadent.


Anyway...many of the things Bogut was being critical of were aspects of the hip hop culture which is largely a black movement...and definitely in terms of origination...

Why doesn't he just say he doesn't like Black People?

I know he's not used to them since they don't have them in Australia...or Argentina...and if they do they probably aren't wealthy.


We already had that culture clash decades ago, and accepted the diffences...to each their own.

:tu

My posting history is a lot better than a lot of you douches anyway. Most posters wouldn't even know I was 17 unless I actually mentioned it. Besides, I'd take the words of a more respected forum member more to heart than some newbie...


:tu :tu Well said!

You've always been on of my favorites on here ES1001, and based on your posts I never even questioned how old/young you are. I just recently found out, and was quite suprised.

RedLion, you should indeed listen to his post, and learn from it.

So yeah, quit telling me I can't have an opinion and Bogut can.

[Obstructed_View]

Many Australians don't like foreigners, particularly Americans. Since they also don't like black people, American black people are going to be more of a target. Bogut's playing to his audience, and he's got the right to say whatever he likes. Much ado about nothing, IMO.

[whottt]

Many Australians don't like foreigners, particularly Americans. Since they also don't like black people, American black people are going to be more of a target. Bogut's playing to his audience, and he's got the right to say whatever he likes. Much ado about nothing, IMO.

And we've got the right to blast him for his comments...


Why does everyone think freedom of speech only applies to the initial person speaking their mind...

[Leetonidas]

Do they have freedom of speech in Argentina? :lmao

[Findog]

Why do you have a problem with EssaySpur utilizing his freedom of speech?


Oh I get it...Freedom of speech is a one way street...Bogut is allowed to be critical but we aren't allowed to be critical back...or have an opinion on what he should do...

I get it.



Uh no. I just happen to disagree with EssaySpur and am telling him so. One can counter by marshaling facts to back up the point they're trying to make, or they can ridicule that which they don't agree with. Free exchange of ideas and all that. Nobody's taking away your right to spout off ignorant, ill-informed and considered opinions, Precious. Tell us how you feel, sweetie.

[resistanze]

:lol @ whottt shutting this thread down.

[whottt]

Uh no. I just happen to disagree with EssaySpur and am telling him so.

I don't give a fuck what you were doing...I don't read your posts.


Why?


Because you can't read for one thing...which pretty much gurantees your opinion to be a stupid and uninformed one...


As in this case...EG: You taking offense at comments not directed at you...that were directed at someone that seemed to have a problem with anyone being critical of Bogut and using their right to free speech to criticize him using his.


Do you get it...stupid?

I wasn't talking to you...you didn't make the comments I was responding too...yet here you are, putting your ass in front of my foot in a colossal act of illiteracy and stupidity.





One can counter by marshaling facts to back up the point they're trying to make, or they can ridicule that which they don't agree with. Free exchange of ideas and all that. Nobody's taking away your right to spout off ignorant, ill-informed and considered opinions, Precious. Tell us how you feel, sweetie.



I feel that you should probably withold your stupid and uninformed opinion, and avoid calling others out, until you learn to read.....

[judaspriestess]

Many Australians don't like foreigners, particularly Americans. Since they also don't like black people, American black people are going to be more of a target. Bogut's playing to his audience, and he's got the right to say whatever he likes. Much ado about nothing, IMO.

This is very, very true. They also don't like Hispanics or Minority women in general. As much as I love foreign men (preferably English) I just hate Australian men because they are jerks. go figure.

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

Before this thread continues to burrow deeper and deeper, maybe we should all read the original article.

------

http://www.smh.com.au/news/basketball/the-bling-and-i/2007/06/16/1181414603971.html?page=fullpage#contentSwap1

The bling and I

June 17, 2007

Although he is surrounded by the trappings of fame, future NBA All-Star Andrew Bogut remains a modest all-Australian boy, David Sygall writes.

In MANY ways they seem a perfect match. An Australian NBA star with a predilection for poker and nice cars, and the United States, a land where success is lauded and riches are flaunted.

But while Andrew Bogut's peers easily drop six figures for a piece of jewellery, indulge in tattoos, outrageous cars, gigantic houses - and exude an attitude to match - Bogut lives a quite different life.

Maybe it's because he's new to this environment of private planes, Hummers and bling. Maybe it's because he's been reared well.

But the 213-centimetre 22-year-old Milwaukee Bucks centre, widely anticipated to become Australia's greatest basketballer, prefers simpler pleasures and the kind of lifestyle that keeps him in touch with his past.

It's not that Bogut forbids himself to enjoy the rewards of his success. But everything's relative.

"I like to go to casinos," he says in a deep but youthful voice. "We have a casino in Milwaukee with a poker room. You don't want to be playing too often, of course, but I probably play once a week."

The poker craze sweeping the US caught Bogut last year. He often plays against "the boys". But he does the real business at the casino. You might expect him to play in a separate room for high rollers and famous people. But he doesn't.

"People know who I am when I walk in," he says. "But I'm not the kind of person to expect a private table. I like to play against regular people. When you sit at a table, for the first half an hour you're an NBA star. But, after that, everyone forgets that and just plays cards. I think that's pretty cool.

"Like anywhere, you get good people and there's the people who want to try to take your money. Some people want to play you so they can talk to you. Others want to try to put you in your place."

Bogut has learnt a lot about humanity over the past couple of years. Well before he became the first Australian player to be nominated the No.1 pick in the NBA's draft, wheelers, dealers and agents besieged him, trying to tap into his huge earning potential.

Finally, he signed with smooth-talking David Bauman, of management group SFX, which looks after some of the game's biggest names, including Kobe Bryant.

Yes, there are massive sponsorship deals being negotiated, even though Bogut has a long way to go to truly live up to the hype. He works in an environment in which modesty is secondary, but some light chat with the massive Melburnian reveals a sportsman proud of his foundations and achievements, one who finds solace in normality in spite of the temptations around him.

"We'll finish practice each day around 2 or 3pm and I'll always have some errands to run before the close of business," he says, explaining his average day when the team isn't travelling. "I'm always sending something back to Australia or getting something repaired.

"Then I'll have a nice meal and relax for a while, maybe play cards or go out with friends for a drink.

"I don't really plan my week. I like to be able to do whatever I feel like doing. Other times I'll just stay home and watch a DVD or get on the internet for a few hours and read about cars, poker players, basketballers, read the Australian newspapers …

"When I arrived they gave me a cheque and I got myself an apartment. I've set myself up pretty comfortably. But I really miss Australia, because I have a house with a backyard.

"I'm looking for a house in Milwaukee because I just got a dog, a husky, and I'm not allowed to keep it in my apartment.

"I always wanted a husky when I was growing up. It's a lot of work and they're hard to look after. But that's all part of it, I guess."

This is an unprecedented insight into the life of one of Australia's most private sports stars. Bogut speaks sharply and with conviction. He is mostly serious but does laugh. The apparently rehearsed lines disappear as he relaxes.

"I don't mind talking to journalists if the questions are different," he says. "It's a chance to get your point across, which is a good thing. It gets a bit hard when you're answering the same questions over and over."

It's questions about Bogut's work environment that get him fired up. His sentiments are well thought out, fearless, yet far from complimentary. He is clearly determined not to get swept up and spat out by the system in which he now finds himself.

"The public's image of NBA players is true," he says. "A lot of them get caught up in the hype and do video clips with rappers and all that crap. They want bling bling all over themselves and drive fast cars. But that's just the way the culture is in America - if you've got it flaunt it and if you don't, you can't."

Bogut catches himself. He bought some nice wheels recently and he collects old cars. His father was in the motor trade and recalls how, as a youngster, he and his father would give the thumbs up to people driving cool cars.

"But that's where it stops for me," he says. "I'm not into jewellery. I've got some earrings but they're not too expensive. There are guys who drop a hundred grand for a chain. The public's got it right - a lot of NBA stars are arrogant and like to spend lots of money and have lots of girlfriends and all that.

"The smarter guys don't do that. They like to live a regular life and want to retire and be set up. About 80 per cent of them go broke by the time they retire or come close to it.

"We have compulsory tutoring each week where they teach you to manage your money and they tell you about all the things that can happen to you, people trying to take advantage of you, but it's amazing how many guys totally ignore it. I guess if you're a normal person and suddenly you're getting $10 million a year, it can go to your head.

"But it's just the culture over there. I would never want my child to be brought up in an environment like that, where if you have money you're supposed to flaunt it and make everyone jealous.

"The American attitude is 'We're the best'. That's why the NBA guys who come from other countries, the Europeans, all sort of stick together away from the game."

Bogut may loathe aspects of American culture. But it's not as though he thinks Australia's tall poppy syndrome is a healthy alternative.

"I don't know why, but people do try to cut you down in Australia," he says. "Look at Lleyton Hewitt. From all the things I read about him, I thought he was an idiot. But then you get to a similar position, being around a big sport, and you start to see things a bit differently.

"Whenever I used to read about Hewitt, I'd read that he was all just for himself. But then you start to have people say that about you and you realise it's just the way the media portrays you and there's nothing much you can do about it."

So, what kind of image would you like people to have of you?

"I'd like people to think of me as someone who works very hard, who has gone through a lot of crossroads along the way," he says.

"I clashed with a lot of coaches and people along the way, I've worked a lot and I'm proud of who I am and where I've got to.

"I don't want to be seen as arrogant but I know that sometimes that's how it will come across. I have a lot of respect for the game and I hope it respects me back.

"There are people who can't accept it when you say that you've given up a lot to get where you are. They only see that you're getting paid millions of dollars to play basketball. But as a 15-year-old it's very different. You can't go out, you have to give up friends, you lose childhood friendships because you don't have any time and suddenly you're left with one or two friends. As a young guy, that's pretty hard to get your head around.

"I always wanted to make it in basketball. But then I missed out on the state team and it was turning into a nightmare. I wondered whether it was all worth it and when I was about 16 I wanted to quit. Before that point my dad had said I could stop if I wanted to. But by that time he'd realised my potential and wouldn't let me give up. It all went from there."

Within four years, Bogut went from Victorian junior team reject to NBA star.

"It is an amazing world I'm living in - more crazy than you think," he says, before recounting the draft, his first real taste of his new life.

"The two days leading up to the draft were ridiculous. When you're a top-10 pick there are so many obligations. You have to do a lot of media, promotions for the NBA, promotions for this, that …

"It was a buzz in a way, but I'd never want to relive it."

Our conversation is over and we now know this giant of Australian sport a little better. "One more thing," he says, before saying goodbye. "Can you let me know when this story's going in the paper? I want to let my mum know."

Source: The Sun-Herald

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

For those saying Bogut hasn't done anything to say anything, at what point can a player speak out about something in your eyes?

Ira Newble is trying to raise awareness of the genocide in Darfur, I don't remember him on any All-NBA teams.

EDIT: I'd missed Findog's earlier statement with the same point. What he said.

[Obstructed_View]

And we've got the right to blast him for his comments...
Of course you do.


Why does everyone think freedom of speech only applies to the initial person speaking their mind...
What on earth would make you think that I thought that?

Actually, I was matching his over-generalization with one of my own. I didn't know I could be subtle, let alone TOO subtle.

[E20]

Well one fact that everybody has to accept is that USA is the greediest country in the World, but does greed always have to be a bad thing? Excessive greed yes, but some greed, leads to innovation, new industry, new jobs/more for the economy, more wealth and easier ways of living. So, my point is that America is number 1, because they are greedy and are never satisfied, which leads to new ways of doing shit to make new jobs/inventions, so it goes around. And I'm not talking about trickle-down economics, but something else.

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

If he doesn't like it then he should take his ass back to Australia. I don't necessarily disagree with Bogut, but what's next?

So where will we be telling you to take your ass back to?

[Findog]

I don't give a fuck what you were doing...I don't read your posts.


I generally don't care what you do either, but it IS annoying to scroll through your diarrhea to get to more worthwhile comments.



Why?

I don't recall asking. Thanks for sharing though, Precious.




You taking offense at comments not directed at you...

No, correcting the record. Nobody is muzzling EssaySpur. Just arguing with him. Perhaps you should familiarize yourself with basic concepts of literacy.




Do you get it...stupid?

You seem angry. Off your meds?


I wasn't talking to you...you didn't make the comments I was responding too...yet here you are, putting your ass in front of my foot in a colossal act of illiteracy and stupidity.

I didn't realize you were the forum etiquette police and I can't weigh in on one side of an exchange, especially considering I had taken the same position earlier in the thread as those with whom EssaySpur was debating. You accused others of attempting to "silence" and "muzzle" EssaySpur when all they were doing is arguing on the high road and ridiculing him on the low road.









I feel that you should probably withold your stupid and uninformed opinion, and avoid calling others out, until you learn to read.....

And I feel that you should seek the immediate attention of a cognitive behavioral therapist if you are this argumentative and angry offline. Good luck with your various pathologies, Sweetcakes.

[Kamnik]

It is hard for Americans (at least some of them) to accept how their general culture is percieved in the world.

I basicly agree with Bogut and one of the things why i am the Spurs fan is their mentality. I got on board when Spurs signed Rasho.

But the class (Pop,Tim,everyone...), modesty, skill and organisation is what i truly respect in this organisation.

Tim Duncan is GOD! Rich as hell, skilled as hell but damn modest and doesnt feel the need to showcase anything. (except his uber basketball skills :D )


Anyways... I am from Slovenia. Culture here is diferent. (lived in socialism 20 years ago) But the crazy capitalistic culture is more and more common.

People here buy cars with huge loans just so they can showcase them to their friends, neighbours etc.

I find that sick and replusing.



Money is the important so you can take care of your family, materalistic needs (normal ones) etc. Maybe even a bit of luxury sometimes. But not because you feel you need to show it to the others.



Do you think Tim Duncan would swap for rings for a billion dollars?

Happines he probably gets with his children for a hundred extra billion?



Bogut surely isnt perfect as isnt any of us. But man speaks the truth. He would love playing for the Spurs.



Oh another thing..... Do players in bad/loosing teams showcase and bling more than those in wining situations? (on average) I think they do.

Succes and positive image can be as much as a lure and motivator than the allmighty $$$.

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

Well one fact that everybody has to accept is that USA is the greediest country in the World, but does greed always have to be a bad thing? Excessive greed yes, but some greed, leads to innovation, new industry, new jobs/more for the economy, more wealth and easier ways of living. So, my point is that America is number 1, because they are greedy and are never satisfied, which leads to new ways of doing shit to make new jobs/inventions, so it goes around. And I'm not talking about trickle-down economics, but something else.

I think the point others are trying to make is that the U.S. isn't the only country with innovation, new industry and job growth. I know you're not saying that specifically, but your statements tend to lend credence to the thought that Americans don't recognize the quality of life beyond our borders.

[Kamnik]

Well one fact that everybody has to accept is that USA is the greediest country in the World, but does greed always have to be a bad thing? Excessive greed yes, but some greed, leads to innovation, new industry, new jobs/more for the economy, more wealth and easier ways of living. So, my point is that America is number 1, because they are greedy and are never satisfied, which leads to new ways of doing shit to make new jobs/inventions, so it goes around. And I'm not talking about trickle-down economics, but something else.

there is truth in what you wrote

there are many good things in greed (capitalism)


problem is that the wealth, power and innovation get used SO WRONG

per say.... looking at the ammount of money used by world armies combined is fucking incredible; if that would be turned to better purposes world could be a "heaven" (not that this is possible bu nevertheless)

and per say.... (i dont know the exact information) i believe a big part of the population in the states doesnt have general medical insurance (meaning you are screwed if anything serious happens to you)




for most of us (im guessing im not alone) Bush is an obviouss puppet of some people/organisations in the background who are basicly all about greed

a poster boy, a spokesman

and to understand why most of the world sees America as Bogut does is we have a hard time understanding how a man like that can be elected for the second time

[whottt]

For those saying Bogut hasn't done anything to say anything, at what point can a player speak out about something in your eyes?

Ira Newble is trying to raise awareness of the genocide in Darfur, I don't remember him on any All-NBA teams.

EDIT: I'd missed Findog's earlier statement with the same point. What he said.


Kids a millionaire, here for the money, whose hobby seems to be throwing his money away on cars and gambling.

He can say he's better than all the greedy famous millionaries in the NBA all he wants...

He's just going to look like a douche when he himself is one, when he himself took the path to instant wealth...and that's just the way it is.


In short...I'll be more impressed with his depth and social awareness when he's doing something more than taking the money, buying cars, and gambling.


Until then...this guy is a country boy that can't handle living in a culturally and ethnically diverse country like America. He hasn't had to do that living in Australia...

[E20]

I think the point others are trying to make is that the U.S. isn't the only country with innovation, new industry and job growth. I know you're not saying that specifically, but your statements tend to lend credence to the thought that Americans don't recognize the quality of life beyond our borders.
Oh, no I totally agree that innovation is found all over the industralized world, but what makes America's economy a cut above the rest? I think it's the fact that we're never satisfied with what we have and we always need that new jacket or shoe or game or TV. And with us so eagerly wanting to spend, business in America never stops in finding new ways of having us to empty our wallets. I think that quote "America's buisness is buisness" sums it up.

[whottt]

I guess I agree with Kamnik, Bogut and Blaze...


Black people need to start acting white. Like they do in Australia(the two that live there). Edit: And Argentina...these guys come from countries where many cultures and skin colors live together in perfect harmony...:rolleyes

[Kamnik]

I know you're not saying that specifically, but your statements tend to lend credence to the thought that Americans don't recognize the quality of life beyond our borders.

good point

i see "happines" as the ultimate currency in every persons life (in my life)

and this can be achieved by people somewhere in remote places where they maybe dont even have runing water from the pipes

they live long, happy and without much stress


and most of the world is just just pushing in the BIGGER, MORE and "BETTER" direction with a crazy pace

i sometimes feel pushed in this direction (getting an university education, later a job with a good salary);
but in the end.... you can be just depressed by all the pressure, stress, etc.

:wakeup

[timvp]

I guess Bogut has to do whatever it takes to shift the focus away from the fact that a number one overall draft pick is putting up Rasho numbers for a team that can't win 30 games in the Eastern Conference.

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

Kids a millionaire, here for the money, whose hobby seems to be throwing his money away on cars and gambling.

He can say he's better than all the greedy famous millionaries in the NBA all he wants...

He's just going to look like a douche when he himself is one, when he himself took the path to instant wealth...and that's just the way it is.


In short...I'll be more impressed with his depth and social awareness when he's doing something more than taking the money, buying cars, and gambling.


Until then...this guy is a country boy that can't handle living in a culturally and ethnically diverse country like America. He hasn't had to do that living in Australia...

I fail to see where I've argued any different or given you any reason to back up your second statement towards me. I've only said that the kid can say whatever he wants and doesn't need to put up numbers to have original opinions, whatever they may be.

[Kamnik]

I guess Bogut has to do whatever it takes to shift the focus away from the fact that a number one overall draft pick is putting up Rasho numbers for a team that can't win 30 games in the Eastern Conference.

doesnt have anything to do what it is being discussed here

even though it is the truth he is nowhere near where a #1 pick should be on average and we all know it (as does the rest of the league/people)

[whottt]

I fail to see where I've argued any different or given you any reason to back up your second statement towards me. I've only said that the kid can say whatever he wants and doesn't need to put up numbers to have original opinions, whatever they may be.


You come off as a Bogut apologist...whether that was your intent or not...

[PM5K]

I guess Bogut has to do whatever it takes to shift the focus away from the fact that a number one overall draft pick is putting up Rasho numbers for a team that can't win 30 games in the Eastern Conference.

That's what I'm saying, how is he going to act arrogant or "American" when he isn't even one of the premier players in the league....

[PM5K]

And Bogut is a pussy and he sucks, he should have been a second round pick, end of story...

:)

[Kamnik]

I guess I agree with Kamnik, Bogut and Blaze...


Black people need to start acting white. Like they do in Australia(the two that live there). Edit: And Argentina...these guys come from countries where many cultures and skin colors live together in perfect harmony...:rolleyes

Are you black? (im not mocking you; a serious question)

[timvp]

Are you black? (im not mocking you; a serious question)

No, whottt doesn't waste money.

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

You come off as a Bogut apologist...whether that was your intent or not...

And here I was thinking you were smart enough to have recognized where my statements were intended to fall on and to take me for what I say (and not what you infer).

[whottt]

So if Bogut can't say what he wants (again, whatever he wants and as ill-advised of an opinion that it is),


Bogut can say he what he wants...and others can base their opinion of him based on his comments, and speak about it, as well.



what gives you the right as a failed real estate agent to offer your opinions?

You see me offering any Real Estate Opinions?

[Obstructed_View]

I seem to recall France trying to make a law allowing people under 26 to be fired from their job in an attempt to increase job competition and productivity. People rioted in the streets to kill the attempt. That sounds pretty selfish to me.

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

Bogut can say he what he wants...and others can base their opinion of him based on his comments, and speak about it, as well.

Do you see me saying you guys can't?




You see me offering any Real Estate Opinions?

No, but I see you offering opinions on society in general...like one Andrew Bogut is doing.

[whottt]

What's funny is people somehow thinking that because Bogut is a millionaire from Australia he's some how in touch and has his finger on the pulse of hte NBA and this country...when he doesn't...and we should somehow fix this country so he won't have the wrong, generalized and culturally intolerant and uninformed opinion of it any longer.

He doesn't. He's a millionaire and is about as in touch with the average American as Michael Jackson is. And experience in being accepting of other cultures as anything other than lipservice might get him into the KKK and that's about it. And I'd say he has a generalizing mindset about the NBA as well...

There are ton of guys that are about more than just bling and greed in the NBA...

[Kamnik]

No, whottt doesn't waste money.

im asking because he seems so damn emo about it

from my own experience i found black people way more resentful, racist, touchy, whatever (from time when i was in the UK)

where i live there is not a single black person

but when a from time to time someone comes along he is treated almost as a rock star :lol

racism doesnt exist here; maybe just nationalism :toast :p:

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

There are ton of guys that are about more than just bling and greed in the NBA...

No shit.

[Kamnik]

There are ton of guys that are about more than just bling and greed in the NBA...

this is a spur fans forum.....


people here probably dont know a single player who is like that
:lol

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

this is a spur fans forum.....


people here probably dont know a single player who is like that
:lol

I know you're trying to be funny, but did you read the Derek Fisher thread in the Spurs forum?

[whottt]

im asking because he seems so damn emo about it

from my own experience i found black people way more resentful, racist, touchy, whatever (from time when i was in the UK)

where i live there is not a single black person


Racism is a sign of a lack of education, and cause of the ignorant...no matter where you find it, and no matter what color it is. It's a primitive method of unification...the most primitive I'd say. The lesser the education, the more likely you are to find it in an individual.



but when a from time to time someone comes along he is treated almost as a rock star :lol

racism doesnt exist here; maybe just nationalism :toast :p:

Racism doesn't exist in so many countries because there isn't much racial diversity in many countries...how can it exist when the factors behind it aren't there, and it never has to be dealt with?





America is the least racist country in the World IMO. That doesn't mean it doesn't exist here...but it has to be confronted here more than most...it's definitely the largest country that has to confront these differences.


I wish I had a dollar for evey time some guy from a country that's all white or black or brown lent his bleeding heart to the poor minorities of some country 3000 miles away, while completely missing the forest for the trees(actually, the complete lack of a forest) in his own...

[Kamnik]

I know you're trying to be funny, but did you read the Derek Fisher thread in the Spurs forum?

i just checked it out and i can just say Derek Fisher has my eternal respect

i also loved when Horry said he will just teach his daughter learn how to drive a bycicle instead of watching the game when asked about the christmas LAL-miami matchup

like anyone cares about that; i found it as almost as stupid then as i see the Paris Hilton situation now

media sucks more and more everywhere

[Obstructed_View]

racism doesnt exist here; maybe just nationalism :toast :p:
I don't know where "here" is, but :lmao.

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

Racism is a sign of a lack of education, and cause of the ignorant...no matter where you find it, and no matter what color it is. It's a primitive method of unification...the most primitive I'd say. The lesser the education, the more likely you are to find it in an individual.




Racism doesn't exist in so many countries because there isn't much racial diversity in many countries...how can it exist when the factors behind it aren't there, and it never has to be dealt with?





America is the least racist country in the World IMO. That doesn't mean it doesn't exist here...but it has to be confronted here more than most...it's definitely the largest country that has to confront these differences.


I wish I had a dollar for evey time some guy from a country that's all white or black or brown lent his bleeding heart to the poor minorities of some country 3000 miles away, while completely missing the forest for the trees(actually, the complete lack of a forest) in his own...

Well, at least there's something we agree on (for the most part).

[Kamnik]

Racism doesn't exist in so many countries because there isn't much racial diversity in many countries...how can it exist when the factors behind it aren't there, and it never has to be dealt with?



true

average person here per say hates the "gipsies" (dont know the spelling or the correct word)

that is just as bad as being racist... so yeah, people are similar everywhere

stupid/uneducated atleast

[whottt]

Well, at least there's something we agree on.



SO why are you defending Bogut because he never had to live with Black People in Austrailia? It doesn't make him smarter...and he's not speaking from a position of experience...


I know you are on some side issue about how the fact that he sucks shouldn't prevent him from having an opinion...it shouldn't...but the opinion is a stupid and generalizing one...and there is plenty there to criticize, whether he sucks as a player, or not.

[Kamnik]

I don't know where "here" is, but :lmao.


Slovenia

and no... were not all pussies like Rasho and Beno :lol

[Kamnik]

SO why are you defending Bogut because he never had to live with Black People in Austrailia? It doesn't make him smarter...and he's not speaking from a position of experience...



in most foreign countries (like Slovenia or Australia) you are being soaked with American (and diferent sub-cultures in it) on daily basis

you see films, documentaries, talk to many people who travel there and today many people go there for a vacation etc

he got a lot of experience before and even more now as he lives there

he knows what he is talking about if you ask me

you dont need to be a geniuss to get to know a county and its mentality in a couple of years :donkey

[whottt]

There are ton of guys that are about more than just bling and greed in the NBA...



Addendum:

And Bogut's not one of them based on this interview. Not even close. Basically he doesn't show off...BFD, I'd rather a guy not suck and showoff than suck and not.

[Kamnik]

I'd rather a guy not suck and showoff than suck and not.

your honor, i object! :nope

just joking.... everyone has his own opinion


per say-i cant stand Gilbert Arenas and on the other hand i love Brent Barry

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

SO why are you defending Bogut because he never had to live with Black People in Austrailia? It doesn't make him smarter...and he's not speaking from a position of experience...


I know you are on some side issue about how the fact that he sucks shouldn't prevent him from having an opinion...it shouldn't...but the opinion is a stupid and generalizing one...and there is plenty there to criticize, whether he sucks as a player, or not.

I'm not defending him.

Show me where I've flat-out defended his thoughts. You know why you won't, because you can't.

You're exactly right in your second statement, I am on a side issue. I'm always on the side issue of allowing people to say whatever they want, however bad it may be. I always will be on that side and I will always defend people on those side to say whatever the hell they want.

Yes, everybody has their god-given right to their opinions, however ill-informed or unpopular they might be. Defending those rights are not and will never be outright defense of those opinions, but of the people's rights to say them - whether they be first-round draft busts or guys on message boards.

You're smarter than that, whottt, and you know it. Maybe one of these days, I'll probably stop jumping at people coming after me stupidly, but I doubt it.

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

Addendum:

And Bogut's not one of them based on this interview. Not even close. Basically he doesn't show off...BFD, I'd rather a guy not suck and showoff than suck and not.

What about guys that suck and showoff?

[whottt]

in most foreign countries (like Slovenia or Australia) you are being soaked with American (and diferent sub-cultures in it) on daily basis

Oh really?

Would you mind telling me which posters on this forum are the Black Slovenians and Australians?

Thanks...in advance.


See..you just learned something you never had to think about before.





you see films, documentaries, talk to many people who travel there and today many people go there for a vacation etc

he got a lot of experience before and even more now as he lives there

LMAO...I know you guys watch American movies...those aren't real. And neither are most of the documentaries.




he knows what he is talking about if you ask me

He doesn't have a clue of having to deal with it in the same way as Americans do...

Exactly where is he supposed to glean that experience from...aside from movies and tourists I mean...


you dont need to be a geniuss to get to know a county and its mentality in a couple of years :donkey

Yeah...just direct me to a Black Slovenian(or Australian or Argentine for that matter) that isn't a novelty, and I'll concede the point. And don't bring up Aboriginees or Native Americans either...because we have those too, and those aren't what I am talking about...those are 1/50th of what I am talking about.

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

(I'm not trying to go either way on this point, but you learn something new everyday).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afro-Argentines

[whottt]

What about guys that suck and showoff?

They suck the worst :tu

At least Bogut has the decency to not showoff when he sucks...now if he'd just learn to shut up and keep his backwater social commentary to himself...I wouldn't blast him for being an Aussie hick.

[Kamnik]

So your point is i cant ever even remotley understand a black person and why he acts as he does if im not black?

sorry for this word but: BULLSHIT

Black Americans are just as special or unspecial as many other nations, ethnic groups,religions etc.

And yes i have black friends and have regular contacts with them. Maybe not in person but nevertheless.

Then you cant ever comment on how Slovenians are because you are not Slovenian and dont have any Slovenian/German/Russian/whatever friends in person.

Thats narrow minded my friend.

[whottt]

So your point is i cant ever even remotley understand a black person and why he acts as he does if im not black?

sorry for this word but: BULLSHIT

I'm saying you haven't got a fucking clue about dealing with racial and ethnic diversity compared to the average American. On an every day basis, on a social basis. It's not even fucking close. No country in Europe does...and neither does Australia or Argentina.



Black Americans are just as special or unspecial as many other nations, ethnic groups,religions etc. /quote]

And you miss the point entirely...which proves my point.




[quote]And yes i have black friends and have regular contacts with them. Maybe not in person but nevertheless.

Then you cant ever comment on how Slovenians are because you are not Slovenian and dont have any Slovenian/German/Russian/whatever friends in person.

Thats narrow minded my friend.

I'm sure Bogut has a ton of BlackFriends...but he what he doesn't have is a background of coming from a country with 1/10th of the ethnic, racial and cultural diversity of America...and it shows. The same as it does with you. I don't care how many Black Friends you have.

[Kamnik]

I'm saying you haven't got a fucking clue about dealing with racial and ethnic diversity compared to the average American. On an every day basis, on a social basis. It's not even fucking close. No country in Europe does...and neither does Australia or Argentina.

Not even fucking close,huh?

So i guess you been allover Europe huh?
:dramaquee

You heard about a place called Balkans?




And compared to an average American me and Bogut can find the NY city on a world map :toast

[whottt]

If a Black Slovenian is too hard to find...how about an Oriental? or a Hindu? That isn't a novelty...


Are you getting it yet?

[whottt]

Not even fucking close,huh?

So i guess you been allover Europe huh?
:dramaquee


Actually I have.


You heard about a place called Balkans?




And compared to an average American me and Bogut can find the NY city on a world map :toast


You know what I can find in America...


More Jews than Israel...


Even more than Europe...why do you think that is?


Becuase you guys are so culturally tolerant. That's why.

[Kamnik]

If a Black Slovenian is too hard to find...how about an Oriental? or a Hindu? That isn't a novelty...


Are you getting it yet?

Ok.... you win. America is 9999x more diverse than Europe.

Good night.


p.s.

funny shit but we have quite some orientals and Hindus here

[whottt]

You probably think getting along with other Europeans is a sign of cultrual tolerance...

[ArgSpursFan]

To have a big diversity of ethnics groups doesn´t make Americans much better,since most of Imigrants go to the U.S to do the dirty work,like working on the field under the sun for 10 hours a day,or doing housekeeping for less tham minimal hourly pay ,etc.
And the funny thing is that when they are not needed anymore,just make a big ass wall in the border line ,and have a special border line patrol.Not homophobics at all.

[whottt]

Classic...

[ArgSpursFan]

but trully

[E20]

LMAO It's Whott vs The Rest of the World.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

wow :lol I just came back and man did this thread blow up. First of all Whottt I think you're overreacting to what most people are saying here.

It was my understanding that what Bogut did was talk about NBA players and their need to show off and attract attention. This is blatantly evident, weather one chooses to look at that fact as a bad thing or a good thing is a different issue. As far as the freedom of expression goes, I was criticizing Essay's claim that just because Bogut has a point of view on the subject he should just leave. That's bullshit. I never said Essay doesn't have the right to say anything. In the end though it is the way Essay says its all opinions, its just that the only one advocating someone just leave if they don't like the way things are is Essay there.

Having said that, every American I've met without exception is utterly and completely convinced of their superiority as a nation and isn't ashamed to throw that fact in your face. I don't mean they get in your face about it, but it sure keeps coming up in every conversation. Its not the fact that you think your country is the best that bothers people, its the fact that you never get tired of telling us. Plus there's the bombardment of American nationalism in songs, movies, etc. People get tired of it all. I agree part of it is jealousy, no doubt. However, from your posts, it seems as though you seriously don't get why people think American's are arrogant. Arrogance with reason of course, but reasonable arrogance is still arrogance and its annoying.

On the other hand, there is a lot of hate towards the US that isn't warranted. Weather its due to ignorance, jealousy or some other reason, the US seems to garner a lot of blame that isn't particularly theirs. US seems to be the popular scapegoat for world problems now a days, and therefore it does seem as if it can do no good in the world's eyes, effectively overshadowing the enormous amount of good this nation does every day. This is not to say I believe the US can, actually, do no wrong. God knows I disagree with a ton of things Bush's administration is doing, but I do believe the US should receive as much credit for their good deeds as they seem to get for their mistakes. Right now, that isn't happening.

Everybody here knows I'm from Argentina, or at least the ones I'm speaking to, do, and I think most Argies here aren't deluded enough to think we can compete with the US in anything other than perhaps a little culture and sports. Does that mean I can't criticize the US? Nobody is above criticism. I know my country sure as hell isn't. The list of whats wrong with my country probably comprises the first ten chapters of the "How to fuck up your country without anybody knowing it" manual. I can see whats wrong with my country, and I like to think I'm doing my part to fix these things.

What I'm saying is just because the man is from Australia, doesn't mean he can't express his opinion about how he sees the NBA and America, and it also means he should be able to express his opinion without people telling him to leave the country. Of course this is all theory. In the end telling is not forcing, Essay wasn't forcing Bogut into anything, which is, I think what, you're talking about whottt. As far as I'm concerned I was criticising that way of thinking.

[ArgSpursFan]

I aint against nobody,but I hate people saying ¨I´m not Homophobic¨when most of people in the world tends to be that way.that doesnt mean you can´t have friends from other ethnics groups.But to say I don´t discriminate it´s just pure homerism.
there´s always someone saying,this fucking whity,this fuking ######,this fucking mexican,or whatever,and when you say that you are discriminating,you like it or not.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

I aint against nobody,but I hate people saying ¨I´m not Homophobic¨when most of people in the world tends to be that way.that doesnt mean you can´t have friends from other ethnics groups.But to say I don´t discriminate it´s just pure homerism.
there´s always someone saying,this fucking whity,this fuking ######,this fucking mexican,or whatever,and when you say that you are discriminating,you like it or not.hey bro, homophobic isn't the word you're looking for. Homophobic means fear of homosexuals :lol

[ArgSpursFan]

hey bro, homophobic isn't the word you're looking for. Homophobic means fear of homosexuals :lol

OK,Now I know why I don´t like you.
I´m an Homophobic my self. :lol

[O-Factor]

[QUOTE=PM5K
It's so stupid to invest your money in a crib, everyone knows realestate is a bad investment, and spending 80K dollars on a car when you only make 16 Million is absurd...


:rolleyes[/QUOTE]

ARE YOU F'N KIDDING ME!

[MaNuMaNiAc]

OK,Now I know why I don´t like you.
I´m an Homophobic my self. :lolno, you don't like me because you're an ignorant fucker that spews bullshit take after bullshit take and doesn't like when people call him on it, THAT's why you don't like me. As far as the part about you being homophobic, I suppose you know yourself better than anybody, so I'd say you're probably right. By the way, homophobia could stem from sexual confusion and denial, you think that's your problem? think about it

P.S. I'll be looking forward to the imminent private message threat as usual, should be fun to read

[ArgSpursFan]

no, you don't like me because you're an ignorant fucker that spews bullshit take after bullshit take and doesn't like when people call him on it, THAT's why you don't like me. As far as the part about you being homophobic, I suppose you know yourself better than anybody, so I'd say you're probably right. By the way, homophobia could stem from sexual confusion and denial, you think that's your problem? think about it

ouch,Did I hurt your feelings,...... Homo?

[ArgSpursFan]

. By the way, homophobia could stem from sexual confusion and denial, you think that's your problem? think about it



It looks like you already came out of the closet.Good for you.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

Seriously, is that the best smack you can bring? you embarrass yourself sis :lol

[MaNuMaNiAc]

(I'm not trying to go either way on this point, but you learn something new everyday).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afro-Argentinesno shit, I didn't even know that term existed :lol I've never heard it before

[Findog]

LMAO It's Whott vs The Rest of the World.

Same shit, different verse. He's one of the last koolaid drinkers when it comes to Iraq. Definitely some sort of pathology there.

[Leetonidas]

So where will we be telling you to take your ass back to?
America?

[v2freak]

If he doesn't like it then he should take his ass back to Australia. I don't necessarily disagree with Bogut, but what's next? Damir Markota is going to start saying McDonald's sucks and Bill Gates is evil? If you don't like the culture or the state of the NBA, then don't be a hypocrite and go back home.

I agree. Let's be serious here, what's the real reason he wanted to come to the NBA? Top level competition? It's plausible.

I'm willing to bet it's because of the money. What league in Australia would pay him so much? I agree that it's ridiculous how athletes get paid so much, or that anyone should get paid that much. He's in the lucky percentile of well-paid people who contribute very little to society. If he doesn't like it, then EssaySpur is correct - he should pack his bags and go home. There are two ways to deal with something you don't like: change it, or learn to live with it. There is no in between (like complaining, nonstop Mavs fans...). And no, bitching about it to a newspaper is not "doing something about it."

He should be glad that he's making more than any of us probably will. AND, he'll get to retire at 40. Is it fair? Not at all, but I've learned to live with it. Additionally, it's ignorant of him to conclude that the actions of a group of NBA players amount to what American culture is all about. If you've got it, flaunt it? Generalize much?

[MI21]

Until then...this guy is a country boy that can't handle living in a culturally and ethnically diverse country like America. He hasn't had to do that living in Australia...

Thats crap. Do you live in Australia? No. Australia is full of different cultures and races of people. I date a Sri Lankan girl born in Australia. My best mate is Kiwi. I play Basketball in a team with some Aussies, 2 Serbians, 1 Asian and a Saudi Arabian. There is a family of Africans living on my street. There is a Lebanese family on my street. Italians next door, and Australians the other side... My street is all of 300 meters long, there could be all sorts of people in the other houes.

What I am trying to say is you are full of shit if you think Australia isn't diverse in the people we have living here. You wouldn't know, you don't live here.

So yeah, I'm not reading most of the other crap, and you could be right in regards to what you are arguing, but that little statement stood out like a sore thumb and it needed correcting.

[Leetonidas]

I agree. Let's be serious here, what's the real reason he wanted to come to the NBA? Top level competition? It's plausible.

I'm willing to bet it's because of the money. What league in Australia would pay him so much? I agree that it's ridiculous how athletes get paid so much, or that anyone should get paid that much. He's in the lucky percentile of well-paid people who contribute very little to society. If he doesn't like it, then EssaySpur is correct - he should pack his bags and go home. There are two ways to deal with something you don't like: change it, or learn to live with it. There is no in between (like complaining, nonstop Mavs fans...). And no, bitching about it to a newspaper is not "doing something about it."

He should be glad that he's making more than any of us probably will. AND, he'll get to retire at 40. Is it fair? Not at all, but I've learned to live with it. Additionally, it's ignorant of him to conclude that the actions of a group of NBA players amount to what American culture is all about. If you've got it, flaunt it? Generalize much?

At least someone sees it from my point of view. :clap

[Kamnik]

Thats crap. Do you live in Australia? No. Australia is full of different cultures and races of people. I date a Sri Lankan girl born in Australia. My best mate is Kiwi. I play Basketball in a team with some Aussies, 2 Serbians, 1 Asian and a Saudi Arabian. There is a family of Africans living on my street. There is a Lebanese family on my street. Italians next door, and Australians the other side... My street is all of 300 meters long, there could be all sorts of people in the other houes.

What I am trying to say is you are full of shit if you think Australia isn't diverse in the people we have living here. You wouldn't know, you don't live here.

So yeah, I'm not reading most of the other crap, and you could be right in regards to what you are arguing, but that little statement stood out like a sore thumb and it needed correcting.

whott will now probably convince you that 30 diferent nationalities live in his neighbourhood and only 29 in yours

i basicly stopped commenting on his silly statements because he just comes back with even more ridicoulos ones

[ArgSpursFan]

I agree. Let's be serious here, what's the real reason he wanted to come to the NBA? Top level competition? It's plausible.

I'm willing to bet it's because of the money. What league in Australia would pay him so much? I agree that it's ridiculous how athletes get paid so much, or that anyone should get paid that much. He's in the lucky percentile of well-paid people who contribute very little to society. If he doesn't like it, then EssaySpur is correct - he should pack his bags and go home. There are two ways to deal with something you don't like: change it, or learn to live with it. There is no in between (like complaining, nonstop Mavs fans...). And no, bitching about it to a newspaper is not "doing something about it."

He should be glad that he's making more than any of us probably will. AND, he'll get to retire at 40. Is it fair? Not at all, but I've learned to live with it. Additionally, it's ignorant of him to conclude that the actions of a group of NBA players amount to what American culture is all about. If you've got it, flaunt it? Generalize much?

Of course He did,But for what I understand He didnt critiziced People making money but throwing it away.

[DarkReign]

Most worthless thread of the year.

[Mark in Austin]

I realize that, but if you were so much in disagreement with the way things were done, you'd most likely leave. Like I said, I don't disagree with the man, and I certainly respect his right to express himself, but really, if he's going to criticize the league and the people who play in it as being too vain and materialistic, he shouldn't play in it.


...or, he could speak up and try to change it. It is possible to have a positon between blind follower of the status quo and voluntary exile.

[aaronstampler]

You probably think getting along with other Europeans is a sign of cultrual tolerance...

Um, it is. That just shows how ignorant you are. You can't lump all white people together. People have different cultures. I don't think Bogut for example identifies himself as a white person, he identifies himself as an Australian.

[ambchang]

lol at people thinking that the states is culturally tolerant. It only takes an OJ Simpson or Rodney King to tip the scales.

[DarkReign]

lol at people thinking that the states is culturally tolerant. It only takes an OJ Simpson or Rodney King to tip the scales.

...or the fact the US is the most culturally diverse country on the planet.

You foreigners have no idea what youre talking about. Tolerance to you is putting up with minorities.

America's ethnic demograhpic FAR exceeds any other country in terms of diversity.

Conflict is/was inevitable.

[MI21]

There is a lot of people in this thread talking about things they know nothing about and just generally making up bullshit and treating the opinion they hold as fact.

It doesn't surprise me though.

[ShoogarBear]

Did everyone miss the amazing irony in this statement?


"I don't know why, but people do try to cut you down in Australia," he says. "Look at Lleyton Hewitt. From all the things I read about him, I thought he was an idiot. But then you get to a similar position, being around a big sport, and you start to see things a bit differently.

"Whenever I used to read about Hewitt, I'd read that he was all just for himself. But then you start to have people say that about you and you realise it's just the way the media portrays you and there's nothing much you can do about it."


So it's okay for him to rip other people, but if he gets ripped, it's "just the way the media portrays you".

[ShoogarBear]

Also good to see noted cultural expert ArgSpursFan weighing in here with his expertise:

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1760444&postcount=20


thanks God there´s no Black People in Argentina. http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1768963&postcount=32


never said it was acceptable.Just thanked God for not bringing the monkeys down here.http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1769192&postcount=37


Come on now.I aint racist,but I know for a fact that most Black young men in the US don´t give a shit about going to school,getting educated and having a decent life.They just want to get high and fuck.Don´t missunderstand me,I said MOST,not all of them.

[ArgSpursFan]

Also good to see noted cultural expert ArgSpursFan weighing in here with his expertise:

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1760444&postcount=20

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1768963&postcount=32

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1769192&postcount=37

Actually,I was the one on this thread who said that everybody in the world discriminates one way or another(and that includes me)
And also said that Americans wanna pretend that they´re opened minded and tolerants with other Cultures while that isn´t true.
BTW,thanxs for taking the time to look at all my posts,It looks like My words made an impact on somebody.

[resistanze]

Actually,I was the one on this thread who said that everybody in the world discriminates one way or another(and that includes me)
And also said that Americans wanna pretend that they´re opened minded and tolerants with other Cultures while that isn´t true.
BTW,thanxs for taking the time to look at all my posts,It looks like My words made an impact on somebody.
What does that gotta do with the racist shit you said?

Bottom line is that any credibility you try to pass off in this thread about cultural issues is fucking laughable.

The only reason why your idiotic posts were dug up is because you actually had the balls to post in this thread. :lol

[ArgSpursFan]

The only reason why your idiotic posts were dug up is because you actually had the balls to post in this thread. :lol

I do,and they´re bigger tham what you imagine,Fuckface.

[v2freak]

Of course He did,But for what I understand He didnt critiziced People making money but throwing it away.

Of course it'd be nice if a lot of that money went to charity. What's he expect, that everyone hoard that money? That would deal a tremendous blow to the economy. He's mad that people are throwing away money when he should be equally mad that people have that much money to throw away. I wonder what he does with most of his? He admitted that he bought a nice car. I bet it doesn't stop there

[rr2418]

If he doesn't like it then he should take his ass back to Australia. I don't necessarily disagree with Bogut, but what's next? Damir Markota is going to start saying McDonald's sucks and Bill Gates is evil? If you don't like the culture or the state of the NBA, then don't be a hypocrite and go back home.


I guess you can't handle the truth, eh essay?

[resistanze]

I do,and they´re bigger tham what you imagine,Fuckface.
Okay.

[san antonio spurs]

I've never seen whottt this full of shit.
Seriously, when did this became a black people (way of living) criticizing thread?? it is this kind of insecure mentality that hurt most minorities. (wether you're black or not, I can't see anywhere in that article any criticism of the black culture).
Can you tell me where it is written that every black man should bling bling(show off).
By directly targeting the black community as you did, you are being a racist your self. Racism can have so many forms, and overprotecting is surely one of them.
I'm african living in canada, and completely agree with what bogut said. Class and humility is in every culture and mostly in the black culture (which the majority is in africa).
What you are defending is the hip hop culture, or the new black american business WHICH IS NOT A CULTURE. (did you see bowen show off?? how about duncan??? but you did see some white teens wanabees show off right!!! It is what the new black american living style is intended to do. SHOW OFF BECAUSE WE'RE GONNA MAKE MONEY OUT OF IT.)
Bogut critisism were probably against the hip hop culture, but I, as a black man, never felt concerned.
You're defending a business culture, not the black culturer and stop calling other people racists, because you were the first one to pull the race card, which is lame considering the article above didn't make such insinuations.
________
E-CIGARETTES (http://www.ecigarettes123.com/)

[ambchang]

...or the fact the US is the most culturally diverse country on the planet.

You foreigners have no idea what youre talking about. Tolerance to you is putting up with minorities.

America's ethnic demograhpic FAR exceeds any other country in terms of diversity.

Conflict is/was inevitable.
Is the US really the most culturally diverse country in the world? What makes you say so? How about Canada? Australia, despite all of whottt's claim about having no black people (or very few), is actually made up of many different cultures. Is it tolerant of other cultures? I don't know, I experience great hospitalities there, but I have also encountered some pretty nasty stuff just because I am a visible minority. The same could be said of the States. And what about Hong Kong (not really a country), Dubai? Singapore? These cities are built on expats and are probably overly culturally tolerant.
Is the US one of the better countries dealing with foreigners? Sure, I am not going to argue that, but I have doubts about it being the best, and I doubt the picture of it being painted as a utopian society where race is not called into question no matter the circumstances.
Just read the Yi Jianling threads, although I am not sure where the posters originate from, but there seems to be a strong sense of "this guy must suck because he is a soft Chinese". It took Yao how long to gain acceptance as one of the better players in the league now? Shawn Bradley didn't even get as much crap as Yao did when they first came into the league.
The US's cultural tolerance is based on just that, tolerance. Race is a very sensitive subject in the States, and given the harrassment Muslims have been enduring the last few years, where innocent people have encountered troubles at the border strictly due to their creed and appearance, you do not make a strong case that the US is indeed culturally accepting at all.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

Also good to see noted cultural expert ArgSpursFan weighing in here with his expertise:

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1760444&postcount=20

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1768963&postcount=32

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1769192&postcount=37
wow... I must have missed those. I knew ArgSpursFan was somewhat of a jackass, but a racist jackass? that's a new development :lol SO... so far, he's a homophobic, racist, ignorant douche...

Hey Shoog, be careful, next thing you know you'll be getting a private message threat from this imbecil. Turns out he's violent as well :lol

[MaNuMaNiAc]

Actually,I was the one on this thread who said that everybody in the world discriminates one way or another(and that includes me)
And also said that Americans wanna pretend that they´re opened minded and tolerants with other Cultures while that isn´t true.
BTW,thanxs for taking the time to look at all my posts,It looks like My words made an impact on somebody.of course they did you moron, and I bet you still don't even get why

[Ronaldo McDonald]

Why doesn't he just say he doesn't like Black People?

Were/are all black people proponents of Hip Hop when it started and where it is currently?

Because that's what you are saying, and that's a generalization



We already had that culture clash decades ago, and accepted the diffences...to each their own.

Culture clash?

He isn't being exclusively critical to any culture, other than the American one.

This is what he said:

A lot of (NBA players) get caught up in the hype and do video clips with rappers and all that crap," Bogut said, the Sydney (Australia) Morning Herald reported. "They want bling bling all over themselves and drive fast cars. But that's just the way the culture is in America: If you've got it, flaunt it and if you don't, you can't

He criticizing American culture as whole, you dumb shit.

He makes a statement about how some guys appear in music videos, flaunt their bling, drive fast cars and you're turning it into a racial attack.

If he does have hatred for the hip hop lifestyle - like many people do - does that make him racist? No.

If he was black and had a problem with white emo kids, or white hippies would it be considered an attack on white people?

[Ronaldo McDonald]

Kids a millionaire, here for the money, whose hobby seems to be throwing his money away on cars and gambling.

Do you have a stack of all his receipts?


He can say he's better than all the greedy famous millionaries in the NBA all he wants...

He's just going to look like a douche when he himself is one, when he himself took the path to instant wealth...and that's just the way it is.

So because he took a path to instant wealth, he's a douche?

So then I guess, according to what you just said, David Robinson's a douche also, even though he's given what, like millions to build a school and everything else he's been involved with?

Same for Dikembe, huh?

How do you know he won't use the money (or if he hasn't already) for the reasons they chose?


Until then...this guy is a country boy that can't handle living in a culturally and ethnically diverse country like America. He hasn't had to do that living in Australia

I could be wrong, but being seven foot and skilled, he probably had a bunch of opportunites to travel to racially and culturally diverse basketball camps around the world.

I bet he isn't as blind to diversity as you are to making sense.

[Capt Bringdown]

I think if you're an expat living and working in a foreign country, you should keep your opinions about your host country to yourself.

[KidCongo]

Up the Aussies

[justanotherspursfan]

you dont need to be a geniuss to get to know a county and its mentality in a couple of years :donkey
Perhaps, though if the impressions you come away with are exactly the same stereotypes you started out with, perhaps you haven't been as interested in getting to know the country as you thought.

[conversekid]

what's wrong with being rich and flaunting it? Jealous mother fuckers. boo hoo... i'm not rich so i'm going to hate on those who are. Kill yourself already.