As It Stands: Spurs Salaries [Archive]

timvp

07-04-2007, 02:59 AM

After agreeing with Oberto, Bonner and Vaughn, the salary cap picture is beginning to clear up. Here are the projected salaries for the 2007-08 season:

Tim Duncan -- $19,014,188
Tony Parker -- $10,500,000
Manu Ginobili -- $9,079,811
Brent Barry -- $5,544,370
Bruce Bowen -- $4,125,000
Robert Horry -- $3,630,000
Fabricio Oberto -- $3,167,420
Michael Finley -- $3,103,000
Francisco Elson -- $3,000,000
Matt Bonner -- $2,750,000
Jackie Butler -- $2,350,000
Beno Udrih -- $1,747,096
Jacque Vaughn - $1,219,590
James White -- $687,456
Marcus Williams -- $427,163
TOTAL -- $70,345,094

For purposes of the luxury tax threshold, Vaughn will only count $770,610 toward it, since he's a 10+ year veteran on a minimum contract. However, White will also count $770,610 since he was also signed as a free agent. With those adjustment, it looks like the team's salary is $69,979,268.

Last season, the luxury tax threshold was $65,420,000. This upcoming season that number is expect to be somewhere between $67,000,000 and $70,000,000. If it comes in at the high estimate, the Spurs should avoid paying the tax. If it comes in low, that'd make the team even more willing to ship off a player such as Beno Udrih.

However, this also means that the Spurs are highly unlikely to use their mid-level exception this year. If they do, the salary for that player will actually be doubled due to the luxury tax. For San Antonio to alter their roster from now to the beginning of the season, it's much more likely that they'd do so via trade.

The supposed 2008 plan, which called for the Spurs to get under the salary cap enough to sign a free agent to go with the Big Three, looks less promising with the re-signings of Oberto and Bonner. However, it appears that the Spurs should still have some room to operate. For the 2008-09 season, the following salaries are on the books:

Tim Duncan -- $20,598,704
Tony Parker -- $11,550,000
Manu Ginobili -- $9,905,248
Fabricio Oberto -- $3,500,000
Matt Bonner -- $3,038,750
Jacque Vaughn -- $1,262,275

After adjusting Vaughn's salary again, that's $49,363,312 on the books. Adding in the six minimum salary spots (because you have to have at least 12 player spots counting against the cap) and assuming that San Antonio renounces the rights to all the other players, the Spurs total charge against the 2008-09 salary cap looks to be $51,926,290.

If the salary cap for the 2008-09 season comes in at $58,000,000 or more (which isn't too unlikely due to the new TV contract), the Spurs should have more than the mid-level exception to try to acquire a marquee player, even after the moves they made this summer.

timvp

07-04-2007, 03:00 AM

My CBA knowledge is a little rusty so feel free correct any mistakes. :smokin

picnroll

07-04-2007, 03:03 AM

Maybe not likely but Duncan could opt out and sign a longer deal staring at a lower salary to help out, no?

Streakyshooter08

07-04-2007, 03:20 AM

Well the good thing is that with Oberto/TD/Manu/Tony you have 4 out of the starting 5 already under contract.

Do you think Bowen will play after next season? If so, will he still start? I think 08 might be the right year to get a good starting SF. Splitter might come over and Butler could still be on the team (he signed for 3 years iirc), Maybe White develops into a solid rotation player. So you have:

TP/Vaughn
Manu/ White
???/???
TD/Bonner
Oberto/Splitter/Butler

The frontcourt looks solid. Maybe Mahinmi could come over as well. I wonder who the Spurs target if it comes down to a SF. I think they might be interested in Diaw. But he did not play that well last year. With Finley/Barry you lose a lot of outside shooting. If I look at the lineup above there are no real shooters anymore (only Bonner) on the team so I guess they will also take a look at good/great shooters.

1. Long defensive SF who is able to hit the 3
2. Perimeter shooting

whottt

07-04-2007, 03:34 AM

Don't the Spurs kind of have to sign Scola this summer...or lose him for good? Or at least for his prime?

timvp

07-04-2007, 03:44 AM

Maybe not likely but Duncan could opt out and sign a longer deal staring at a lower salary to help out, no?It's possible. However, I think it's more likely that he just signs a two-year extension this summer.

Do you think Bowen will play after next season? If so, will he still start?Tough to tell. He's at the age where a player can look fine one day and then be finished the next. We'll have to readdress this after the upcoming season.

If I look at the lineup above there are no real shooters anymore (only Bonner) on the team so I guess they will also take a look at good/great shooters.

1. Long defensive SF who is able to hit the 3
2. Perimeter shootingAgreed. As far as the shooting goes, that might be a reason they are looking at someone like Matt Carroll. After Bowen, Finley and Barry are no longer Spurs, they'll need to replace them with some sharpshooters. A Tim Duncan team without shooters is an ugly sight.

Don't the Spurs kind of have to sign Scola this summer...or lose him for good? Or at least for his prime?No, he becomes a free agent from Tau Ceramica on June 30th, 2008. That is the point when it becomes most likely that Scola will finally reach the NBA.

Tiago Splitter has an option next summer to buy out his contract to go to the NBA for $1M. If he doesn't do that next summer, his contract gets automatically extended until 2112.

Bruno

07-04-2007, 03:45 AM

If Bonner get a $9M contract wit a 10.5% raise, his first year salary will be $2,714,932.
Vaughn second year salary will be $1,262,275, the minimum salary for 10+ vet in 08-09.
White will too count $770,610 against the luxury tax.

The salary cap should raise by $2.7M only with the new TV deal.

timvp

07-04-2007, 04:06 AM

If Bonner get a $9M contract wit a 10.5% raise, his first year salary will be $2,714,932.The Ludden article said "about $9M". Starting at $2.75M like I have it has Bonner making a little over $9.1M. Until we see a definite figure, it's still a guess. But it's probably safe to say it's between $8.8M-$9.2M.

Vaughn second year salary will be $1,262,275, the minimum salary for 10+ vet in 08-09.I got $1,317,157 by giving him an 8% raise on what he'll make next year. That's not how it works for veteran minimums?

It's reported he'll earn $2.5M over two years. My way, he makes a tad bit more. Your way, he makes a tad bit less.

White will too count $770,610 against the luxury tax. You sure? Even though his salary will be less?

The salary cap should raise by $2.7M only with the new TV deal.What do you think the cap will be this year and in '08-09? Thanks.

Manudona

07-04-2007, 04:31 AM

Tiago Splitter has an option next summer to buy out his contract to go to the NBA for $1M. If he doesn't do that next summer, his contract gets automatically extended until 2112.

Wow! This guy must be not from Brazil, but from Valinor! :p:

Bruno

07-04-2007, 04:31 AM

I got $1,317,157 by giving him an 8% raise on what he'll make next year. That's not how it works for veteran minimums?

No. You had to respect the minimum salary scale. If you don't do it, Spurs will have to pay teh whole salary and the whole salry will count agaisnt the luxury tax and salry cap.

http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#19

Teams can offer players minimum salary contracts even if they are over the cap. Contracts can be up to two years in length. For two year contracts, the second season salary is the minimum salary for that season.

You sure? Even though his salary will be less?

Yes.
http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#16

For players who signed as free agents (i.e., not draft picks), and make less than the two-year minimum salary, the minimum salary for a two-year veteran is used in place of their actual salary.

What do you think the cap will be this year and in '08-09?

I've read a lot of things for this year from $54.5M to $57M.
$55M seems to be the consensus.
We should have a better idea of what will be the cap for 08/09 when the cap for 07/08 will be released.
If the 07/08 cap is at $55M, $60M for the 08/09 cap seems reasonable.

timvp

07-04-2007, 04:38 AM

No. You had to respect the minimum salary scale. If you don't do it, Spurs will have to pay teh whole salary and the whole salry will count agaisnt the luxury tax and salry cap.

http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#19

Yes.
http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#16

Thanks for the info. I forgot to factor in the Spurs didn't draft White. I'll change it :tu

Do Mahinmi and Splitter count anything right now? Or would they next summer if the Spurs are trying to open up cap room?

I thought I remember that unsigned first round draft picks count against the cap somehow, but I can't find it in the CBA.

I've read a lot of things for this year from $54.5M to $57M.
$55M seems to be the consensus.
We should have a better idea of what will be the cap for 08/09 when the cap for 07/08 will be released.
If the 07/08 cap is at $55M, $60M for the 08/09 cap seems reasonable.

So it's possible that the Spurs could have $8M to spend under the cap next summer. That could land a pretty nice player.

timvp

07-04-2007, 04:40 AM

Wow! This guy must be not from Brazil, but from Valinor! :p:

:lol Tau is ruthless. :hat

(Should say 2012)

Bruno

07-04-2007, 04:46 AM

Do Mahinmi and Splitter count anything right now? Or would they next summer if the Spurs are trying to open up cap room?

Unsigned first round picks are included in team salary immediately upon their selection in the draft. They count as 100% of the scale salary for that pick, unless there is a verbal agreement for a higher salary.

http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#43 :)

timvp

07-04-2007, 04:53 AM

Unsigned first round picks are included in team salary immediately upon their selection in the draft. They count as 100% of the scale salary for that pick, unless there is a verbal agreement for a higher salary.

http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#43

Does that mean that they will count this year in regards to the luxury tax? And do you know if Mahinmi will count 100% of the scale in the year he was drafted or the current scale?

Thanks again :lol

xapatan2

07-04-2007, 04:59 AM

hi you all,

Timvp, just a little thing to edit in your first post : brent Barry instead of the second Manu ?

Xap'

timvp

07-04-2007, 05:03 AM

Does that mean that they will count this year in regards to the luxury tax? And do you know if Mahinmi will count 100% of the scale in the year he was drafted or the current scale?

Thanks again :lol

It looks like Mahinmi and Splitter do currently count in respect to the luxury tax threshold. If that is the case, each would count about $750,000 and that would push the Spurs past any hope of coming under the luxury tax threshold.

I'll wait for Bruno confirmation that but that's what I gather from the CBA.

Trading away Beno and bringing in Mahinmi this summer makes even more sense if Mahinmi is costing them money anyways and Beno is what separates the Spurs from not having to pay tax.

timvp

07-04-2007, 05:04 AM

hi you all,

Timvp, just a little thing to edit in your first post : brent Barry instead of the second Manu ?

Xap'

Thanks. Can always count on French Spurs fans. :tu

Bruno

07-04-2007, 05:06 AM

Does that mean that they will count this year in regards to the luxury tax? And do you know if Mahinmi will count 100% of the scale in the year he was drafted or the current scale?

No, unsigned first round picks, who are udner contract with a non nba team (like Splitter and mahinmi), count against the cap only between July 1st and the first day of the regular season.
The Luxury tax is based on the team total salary at the last day of the season. So, when the luxury tax is calculated, unsigned first round picks doesn't count against the cap.

Thanks again :lol

You're welcome ;)

timvp

07-04-2007, 05:09 AM

No, unsigned first round picks, who are udner contract with a non nba team (like Splitter and mahinmi), count against the cap only between July 1st and the first day of the regular season.
The Luxury tax is based on the team total salary at the last day of the season. So, when the luxury tax is calculated, unsigned first round picks doesn't count against the cap.

Okay, I will trust what you say. That's easier than trying to look it up again :dizzy

greens

07-04-2007, 05:12 AM

I don't get why people think that Bruce might not play after next season...As far as I've heard, he hasn't talked about retiring anytime soon. I only read about Horry saying that the upcoming season will be his last, more than likely. As for Bruce, he just had a phenomenal playoff and finals run. He was absolutely superb. His defense on Lebron was just amazing. Not to mention his clutch 3 in Game 5 agains the Suns. And also some 3s during a finals game when the big 3 were struggling. Why would he retire after next year?

I think he can play for another 3 years. I'm hoping the Spurs will give him another contract. I just cannot imagine the Spurs without Bruce. He is the best defender...Who is going to guard Kobe, AI, Carmelo, etc? So I sure hope he'd want to stay for a while longer. And I'd really hope the Spurs will give him a contract if he wants to play longer.

Bruno

07-04-2007, 05:15 AM

Being just above the Luxury tax won't be a big problem this year.

Being $1 over the Luxury tax threshold costed $2.4M in 05-06, $1.8M in 06-07 and will cost around $1M in 07-08.

Bruno

07-04-2007, 05:19 AM

Okay, I will trust what you say. That's easier than trying to look it up again :dizzy

If you want all details about that :
http://www.nbpa.com/cba_articles/article-VII_4.php

(e) First Round Picks.

(1) A First Round Pick, immediately upon selection in the Draft, shall be included in the Team Salary of the Team that holds his draft rights at 100% of his applicable Rookie Scale Amount, and, subject to Section 4(e)(2) below, shall continue to be included in the Team Salary of any Team that holds his draft rights (including any Team to which the player’s draft rights are assigned) until such time as the player signs with such Team or until the Team loses or assigns its exclusive draft rights to the player.

(2) In the event that a First Round Pick signs with a non-NBA team, the player’s applicable Rookie Scale Amount shall be excluded from the Team Salary of the Team that holds his draft rights, beginning on the date he signs such non-NBA contract or the first day of the Regular Season, whichever is later, and shall be included again in his Team’s Team Salary at the applicable Rookie Scale Amount on the following July 1 or the date the player’s contract ends (or the player is released from his non-NBA contractual obligations), whichever is earlier, unless the Team renounces its exclusive rights to the player in accordance with Article X, Section 4(f). If, after such following July 1, or any subsequent July 1, the player signs another, or remains under, contract with a non-NBA team, the player’s applicable Rookie Scale Amount will again be excluded from Team Salary beginning on the date of the contract signing or the first day of the Regular Season commencing after such July 1, whichever is later, and will again be included in Team Salary at the applicable Rookie Scale Amount on the following July 1 or the date the player’s contract ends (or the player is released from his non-NBA contractual obligations), whichever is earlier, unless the Team renounces its exclusive rights to the player in accordance with Article X, Section 4(f).

(3) For purposes of this Section 4(e), in the event that a First Round Pick does not sign a Contract with the Team that holds his draft rights during the Salary Cap Year immediately following the Draft in which he was selected (or during the same Salary Cap Year in which he was drafted if the Draft occurs on or after July 1), the “applicable Rookie Scale Amount” for such First Round Pick means, with respect to any subsequent Salary Cap Year, the Rookie Scale Amount that would apply if the player were drafted in the Draft immediately preceding such Salary Cap Year at the same draft position at which he was actually selected.

timvp

07-04-2007, 05:23 AM

If you want all details about that :
http://www.nbpa.com/cba_articles/article-VII_4.php

Appreciate it :tu

Too bad you weren't on the forum back in 2001 thru 2004 when the Spurs performed salary cap gymnastics all summer. Would have saved me a lot of reading :)

ATRAIN

07-04-2007, 08:22 AM

good job timvp......im still a little rusty on the NBA's cap. I have been doing simulated season's on NBA 2k7 and Im always in cap trouble.

bigfan

07-04-2007, 08:37 AM

Didnt realize Barry was paid that much. A great team player and a great shooter at times, he needs to be traded (as does Beno). Trade Scolas rights with one (or both of these guys) for Nocioni.

Solid D

07-04-2007, 09:10 AM

This is a very fine thread guys. It offers a nice feel for how things shape-up over the next couple of seasons. I know it's not easy coming up with accurate data. It makes you see and appreciate what professional sports organizations have to go through and their limitations in building them.

Not many people were completely satisfied with the talent the Spurs had throughout most of the 2006-07 season...even as the last game was played. The Spurs still won as one tough unit and that can only be done on wood, not paper.

duncan228

07-04-2007, 09:18 AM

The money side of the NBA still confuses me and I consider myself fairly educated!

I've learned so much from the hard work you guys put into bringing this information to us and putting it in language that's understandable.

Thank to timvp, Bruno, and all the others that continue to help us laymen stay educated on how it all comes together. :toast

ploto

07-04-2007, 09:28 AM

After adjusting Vaughn's salary again, that's $49,363,312 on the books. Adding in the six minimum salary spots (because you have to have at least 12 player spots counting against the cap) and assuming that San Antonio renounces the rights to all the other players, the Spurs total charge against the 2008-09 salary cap looks to be $51,926,290.

If the salary cap for the 2008-09 season comes in at $58,000,000 or more (which isn't too unlikely due to the new TV contract), the Spurs should have more than the mid-level exception to try to acquire a marquee player, even after the moves they made this summer.
This is where Ian and Splitter matter- I believe. They count against the cap space available to sign players in the summer, unless of course you sign them to one of those 12 spots.

Aggie Hoopsfan

07-04-2007, 10:24 AM

greens

07-04-2007, 03:29 PM

People think he won't play because he's getting fucking old and can't keep doing what he's doing forever.

Duh.

Has he shown signs of weaknesses and slowing down in the finals? Could he have guarded Lebron any better?

I get that he's getting older...but I just don't see any signs of him getting worse at the moment. I think it all depends on whether he wants to play for a few more years or whether he'd want to retire. And I've never heard him say a word about retiring soon or anything like that.

spurster

07-04-2007, 03:43 PM

After adjusting Vaughn's salary again, that's $49,363,312 on the books. Adding in the six minimum salary spots (because you have to have at least 12 player spots counting against the cap) and assuming that San Antonio renounces the rights to all the other players, the Spurs total charge against the 2008-09 salary cap looks to be $51,926,290.

If the salary cap for the 2008-09 season comes in at $58,000,000 or more (which isn't too unlikely due to the new TV contract), the Spurs should have more than the mid-level exception to try to acquire a marquee player, even after the moves they made this summer.
What is the MLE nowadays? I suppose the Spurs can outbid other MLE offers, but that's about it.

Solid D

07-04-2007, 04:04 PM

What is the MLE nowadays? I suppose the Spurs can outbid other MLE offers, but that's about it.

It is based on average player salary. That value exception isn't determined until the start of the free agent signing period...according to Cox.

It was $5 Million in 2005-06. Last year it was $5.215 million.

exstatic

07-04-2007, 04:07 PM

Has he shown signs of weaknesses and slowing down in the finals? Could he have guarded Lebron any better?

Actually he has, and we had a big man soft doubling Lebron the whole series. Bowen could never shut him down. He's too damn strong.

Solid D

07-04-2007, 04:16 PM

Actually he has, and we had a big man soft doubling Lebron the whole series. Bowen could never shut him down. He's too damn strong.

Even when LeBron was a rookie, Bruce could only provide the first-front in James' face. LeBron is too strong.

Exstatic is right regarding helping with a Big. Oberto actually did his best work all year during the Finals helping Bruce on traps, hedges and what-have-you.

SequSpur

07-04-2007, 05:11 PM

Bonner should've been offered a 2 year minimum contract. There isn't a team out there that would've beat it. The Spurs suck at negotiation.

Twisted_Dawg

07-04-2007, 05:14 PM

My CBA knowledge is a little rusty so feel free correct any mistakes. :smokin

Does a team have to pay the luxury tax if they go $1.00 over the cap? Or, is there another level where the tax does kick in dollar for dollar? For example, if the cap is $70 million, is there another level say $72 million where if breached the tax kicks in? So if a team was at $71.5 millioon they would not pay a tax? They would not get the rebate from the league by staying under the $70 million level though. Seems like I recall some buffer zone that allowed this.

Solid D

07-04-2007, 05:24 PM

Bonner should've been offered a 2 year minimum contract. There isn't a team out there that would've beat it. The Spurs suck at negotiation.

The painting isn't finished, Mr. Impatient.

Ocotillo

07-04-2007, 05:58 PM

Bonner should've been offered a 2 year minimum contract. There isn't a team out there that would've beat it. The Spurs suck at negotiation.

For all the strengths of the front office, they seem to be a bit sentimental when dealing with our own free agents. See Rose, Malik or Jackson, Jaren.

pad300

07-04-2007, 06:11 PM

For all the strengths of the front office, they seem to be a bit sentimental when dealing with our own free agents. See Rose, Malik or Jackson, Jaren.

Don't know. We may actually have gotten quite the discount.

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1832064&postcount=32

Even the cheapest of the good contracts listed are ~4,000,000/year. Bonner's getting 3,000,000/year.

Ocotillo

07-04-2007, 06:16 PM

The other thing to consider to is these 3 million a year contracts help when cap filler is needed for trades, if necessary.

SequSpur

07-04-2007, 06:25 PM

Bonner put them in the luxury cap threshold, therefore, they are going to pay 6 million dollars for a bench player who hands out water during the playoffs.....

while leaving there midlevel unused on a player who can actually contribute.

Aggie Hoopsfan

07-04-2007, 08:35 PM

Has he shown signs of weaknesses and slowing down in the finals? Could he have guarded Lebron any better?

I get that he's getting older...but I just don't see any signs of him getting worse at the moment. I think it all depends on whether he wants to play for a few more years or whether he'd want to retire. And I've never heard him say a word about retiring soon or anything like that.

Bowen showed signs during the regular season, particularly when it came to back to backs, of slowing down.

He played about as well as he could during the Finals, but still had a soft double coming on every play from the play side big to help defend LeBron.

And he's only going to get slower from here on out.

Aggie Hoopsfan

07-04-2007, 08:36 PM

For all the strengths of the front office, they seem to be a bit sentimental when dealing with our own free agents. See Rose, Malik or Jackson, Jaren.

Have you seen what other FAs are getting this year so far? Matt Carroll. Kapono. Etc. This is a bargain.

Solid D

07-04-2007, 08:47 PM

Mr. Body

07-04-2007, 09:06 PM

Bonner is going to be near the bottom third of the payscale for the Spurs. Complainers complain. Players play. :smokin

Matt Bonner -- $2,750,000
Jackie Butler -- $2,350,000
Beno Udrih -- $1,747,096
Jacque Vaughn - $1,219,590
James White -- $687,456

While I'm not against the Bonner signing, that's hardly the greatest endorsement for the deal. How many players in that list are worth a damn? If what you're saying is the Spurs just inked a guy to bolster the very end of their bench, I'm not sure that's a ringing plus.

texasqb2

07-04-2007, 09:13 PM

My CBA knowledge is a little rusty so feel free correct any mistakes. :smokin

I thought you don't get the MLE if you're under the cap

texasqb2

07-04-2007, 09:15 PM

Solid D

07-04-2007, 09:26 PM

Players under $3M per year are usually either injury insurance players, players in their first contracts (rookie), or veteran minimums. Bonner is more than just a $2.7M insurance policy for Robert Horry. Bonner can really contribute at both ends of the court, providing scoring, rebounding and infectious hustle. He's a great value for a rotation player and, if healthy, he WILL be a rotation player in 2007-08.

SequSpur

07-04-2007, 11:52 PM

Marcus Bryant

07-04-2007, 11:53 PM

SequSpur

07-04-2007, 11:56 PM

Kobulingam

07-05-2007, 12:59 AM

9 million dollars of nothing.

Only 9 since that list had Barry missing from it.

Bruno

07-05-2007, 03:40 AM

Does a team have to pay the luxury tax if they go $1.00 over the cap? Or, is there another level where the tax does kick in dollar for dollar? For example, if the cap is $70 million, is there another level say $72 million where if breached the tax kicks in? So if a team was at $71.5 millioon they would not pay a tax? They would not get the rebate from the league by staying under the $70 million level though. Seems like I recall some buffer zone that allowed this.

There is a luxury tax threshold. As soon as you are above it you pay $1 for each $1.
If the luxury tax threshold is at $70M, a team with a $71M total salary will pay $1M in luxury tax, a team will a $80M total salary will pay $10M in luxury tax.

The luxury tax money recolted is redistributed between teams (the league tooko too a part fo it) and teams under the luxury tax get a bigger part of it.
For example, 5 teams have paid the tax, 25 teams haven't paid the tax and the luxury tax recolted is $60M. the 25 teams under the tax will get 1/30th of the $60M ($2M per team). The $10M left will be devided between the league and nba teams.
As soon as a team is 1$ above the tax, a lot of money is lost (1/30th of the recolted luxury tax).

A team above the tax has two penalties :
- A dollar for dollar tax.
- Less luxury tax money redisdributed to them.

timvp

07-10-2007, 09:45 PM

The luxury tax threshold came in at $67,865,000. The Spurs have $69,979,268 in salary that counts toward the luxury tax threshold. That means the Spurs are $2,114,268 over the luxury tax threshold.

This probably isn't the greatest news because that means that the Spurs will be looking to dump some salary. Then again, they paid the tax last year so maybe they'll just pay it again. It's not everyday you can be in the championship hunt.

But it probably officially ends the dream that the Spurs would use the MLE this summer.

ducks

07-10-2007, 10:00 PM

trade beno for trade exception
spurs could then use some of that mle

timvp

07-10-2007, 10:05 PM

trade beno for trade exception
spurs could then use some of that mle

If you trade Beno to a team that can absorb his salary, the luxury tax number of $2,114,268 would shrink to $367,172. But that assumes the Spurs that the Spurs don't bring in anyone to fill that 15th roster spot.

And it'd still mean that the Spurs wouldn't use their MLE.

Mr. Body

07-10-2007, 10:05 PM

trade beno for trade exception
spurs could then use some of that mle

I think I found a flaw in your cunning plan: no one wants him.

ducks

07-10-2007, 10:07 PM

ferry owes the spurs a favor
and he has a trade excetion
besides james deserves beno

Mr. Body

07-10-2007, 10:08 PM

If you trade Beno to a team that can absorb his salary, the luxury tax number of $2,114,268 would shrink to $367,172. But that assumes the Spurs that the Spurs don't bring in anyone to fill that 15th roster spot.

And it'd still mean that the Spurs wouldn't use their MLE.

I can see shedding Beno in some manner - maybe pulling a semi-favor and give him to Cleveland - then doing a patented 'tax shaver' special and send out Barry for a smaller one year contract using some cash and maybe next year's Orlando pick as sweetener.

Mr.Bottomtooth

07-10-2007, 10:09 PM

The luxury tax is surrounded by Barry. Trade him to a team with cap space (Bobcats, Bucks?) and we're fine.

SequSpur

07-10-2007, 10:09 PM

i hope the spurs go out of business.

paying bonner 3 mill was fucking stupid.

Mr. Body

07-10-2007, 10:11 PM

i hope the spurs go out of business.

paying bonner 3 mill was fucking stupid.

Agree.

Resigning Bonner = good.

Outbidding yourself to do it = not good.

They probably overpaid him by half.

SequSpur

07-10-2007, 10:13 PM

yeah dude, that dude was worth less than minimum

Mr. Body

07-10-2007, 10:14 PM

Trade idea: Barry to Milwaukee for Damir Markota.

Come home, Damir!

SequSpur

07-10-2007, 10:16 PM

Trade idea: Barry to Milwaukee for Damir Markota.

Come home, Damir!

markota sucks.

brent barry is fricking awesome.

Mr. Body

07-10-2007, 10:17 PM

No way. Dr. Naismith was Croatian, like Damir Markota.

yavozerb

07-10-2007, 10:25 PM

Barry = 5.5 mil for Pietrus =5 mil (S&T) saves 500K
Beno= 1.9 mil for Trade exemption to cavs= 1.9mil. saved
===========================================2.4 mil saved and no tax

yavozerb

07-10-2007, 10:27 PM

How much would it cost to probably bring these players over: Mahinmi and Sanikidze

Mr. Body

07-10-2007, 10:27 PM

I don't see Barry drawing Pietrus for us. Milwaukee is a real possibility, if Mo Williams bolts for Miami. They're below the cap, so can absorb salary. They also have Ersan Ilyasova we might like to pry away to take a look at.

timvp

07-10-2007, 10:29 PM

How much would it cost to probably bring these players over: Mahinmi and Sanikidze
Sanikidze would probably be the minimum at $427,163 as long as he doesn't have a Euro buyout. I believe Mahinmi's rookie scale contract begins at about $800,000.

SequSpur

07-10-2007, 10:34 PM

Can somebody give me an exact break down of all the salaries and the cap figure, the tax max and the available dollars left to sign a brotha who can play some ball?

Kori Ellis

07-10-2007, 10:36 PM

Can somebody give me an exact break down of all the salaries and the cap figure, the tax max and the available dollars left to sign a brotha who can play some ball?
No money left. Salary cap is $55.630 million.

The luxury tax threshold came in at $67,865,000. The Spurs have $69,979,268 in salary that counts toward the luxury tax threshold. That means the Spurs are $2,114,268 over the luxury tax threshold.

SequSpur

07-10-2007, 10:38 PM

Thanks, that's fricking crazy. Has anybody let Peter Holt know about this?

Solid D

07-10-2007, 10:39 PM

Somebody didn't wear their helmet on the bus today.

SequSpur

07-10-2007, 10:41 PM

How in the hell did somebody let RC run the salaries above the tax bracket? And most of all sign Bonner to a contract 3 times the amount that he is worth? I told you they were making money and not disclosing it.

ducks

07-10-2007, 10:46 PM

Can somebody give me an exact break down of all the salaries and the cap figure, the tax max and the available dollars left to sign a brotha who can play some ball?
are you the investor or a customer or a fan

mystargtr34

07-10-2007, 11:14 PM

What about at the end of next season?

Bruno

07-11-2007, 03:02 AM

Teams should pay around $45M in luxury tax, the penalty for being $1 above the tax threshold will be around $1.5M.

RuffnReadyOzStyle

07-11-2007, 06:53 AM

Great job, guys.

Thankfully shooters are pretty numerous, although the long defensive 3 we need will be harder to find.

Can we acquire a second round draft pick or two in next year's draft to spend on swingmen in the second round? Might be a way to acquire cheap players to fill out the roster.

50 cent

07-11-2007, 11:10 AM

I'm sure we will trim that $2M away. Hopefully it will be trading Scola and Beno for a 1st rounder or something.

SAGambler

07-11-2007, 12:58 PM

People think he won't play because he's getting fucking old and can't keep doing what he's doing forever.

Duh.

Many times I would agree with that. But Bruce looks to be as fit as any 25 year old. Maybe he found that fountain of youth somewhere and is just keeping it a secret.

I know age can creep up on you and cost you a step or two, but right now Bruce looks as good as he did any of the past 3 or years. I would guess he probably has another 2 or 3 in him if he desires it.

Ed Helicopter Jones

07-11-2007, 01:36 PM

Moving Barry would solve the cap issues.

I guess that would actually require another team wanting Barry.

But his price tag really isn't that high, and I think he's still capable of bringing a lot to a team.

Bruno

07-13-2007, 05:18 AM

A post Butler analysis of the luxury tax situation:

Tim Duncan -- $19,014,188
Tony Parker -- $10,500,000
Manu Ginobili -- $9,079,811
Brent Barry -- $5,544,370
Bruce Bowen -- $4,125,000
Robert Horry -- $3,630,000
Fabricio Oberto -- $3,167,420
Michael Finley -- $3,103,000
Francisco Elson -- $3,000,000
Matt Bonner -- $2,750,000
Beno Udrih -- $1,747,096
Jacque Vaughn - $1,219,590 ($770,610 against the luxury tax)

$66,431495 against the tax for 12 players
The Luxury tax threshold is $67.865M, Spurs are $1.43M.
Mahinmi should cost $938,760 (he could cost less but it's unlikely).
Marcus Williams cost $427,163.
James White cost $770,610.

So if Spurs wants to go under the tax and if they sign Mahinmi, they had to waive James White but they can keep Marcus Williams. :)

timvp

07-13-2007, 05:23 AM

So if Spurs wants to go under the tax and if they sign Mahinmi, they had to waive James White but they can keep Marcus Williams. :)

Which fits right in with Ludden bashing White and praising Williams.

Expect that to be the next move and then summer over.

timvp

07-24-2007, 01:50 AM

Tim Duncan -- $19,014,188
Tony Parker -- $10,500,000
Manu Ginobili -- $9,079,811
Brent Barry -- $5,544,370
Bruce Bowen -- $4,125,000
Robert Horry -- $3,630,000
Fabricio Oberto -- $3,167,420
Michael Finley -- $3,103,000
Francisco Elson -- $3,000,000
Matt Bonner -- $2,750,000
Beno Udrih -- $1,747,096
Jacque Vaughn - $1,219,590 ($770,610 against the luxury tax)
Ian Mahinmi -- $938,760
Marcus Williams -- $427,163

NBA's Luxury Tax Threshold: $67,865,000
Current Salaries + Williams and Mahinmi: $67,797,418

If the Spurs go with the above 14 players for 2007-08 season, they'll be under the NBA's luxury tax threshold by $67,582.

That roster might not be good enough but Holt will be happy. :elephant

timvp

07-24-2007, 02:02 AM

YODA

07-24-2007, 02:29 AM

Has anyone noticed the the amount of players we should be losing next year? It looks like we will lose almsot half the team. sheesh
1. Horry already said he is gone
2. Barry contract year,,pretty much in horry mode
3. Bowen,, 50-50...i woner
4. Beno doubt he even survives training camp
5. Finley last year up in 08...how long cna he go?
6. Vaughn Probably look for a back sometime during the year

Thats a ton of holes to fill for the next year. ok, , so we have splitter an Ian, still alot of work to do.

Yoda

Mr. Body

07-24-2007, 02:31 AM

venitian navigator

07-24-2007, 03:11 AM

I think that all the players above mentioned (with the only more than probable exclusion of Udrih, who's already "en trein" of being traded for nothing) could receive an offer to stay for the minimum...or something little more.
So, in case some of our "old men" don't break during the season I don't see reasons for the management not to give them an offer and, if they like the enviroment, like I think they all do, they all could stay...they know the system, their market value will not be too high ('cause of age) and they could be still more valuable to the team, expecially come play off time - that some young player with no experience.

mountainballer

07-24-2007, 03:31 AM

If the Spurs trade away Beno for nothing, the Spurs could sign Udoka to a three-year, $5.84M contract and stay under the luxury tax threshold. You can bet that's the deal the Spurs have on the table for Udoka ... and that's why he's hesitating signing with the Spurs.

yes, that's pretty much like a LLE deal with an addional 3rd year.
it's better than playing for the minimum, but for sure much less than Udoka is expecting.
and it leaves one question: the Blazers have the LLE left, the best what they could offer Udoka. they might have already offered it to him and IMO for the same money, he would stay in his hometown.
(yes, the Blazer have no open spots, but there are some rumors about Miles not comming back and also about a LaFrentz buyout, so there might be a spot for Udoka left soon)

mountainballer

07-24-2007, 04:07 AM

another thought.
we expect the Spurs to sign a FA, even more since they now waived White.
but is it completly out of discussion, that a trade will happen? (a S&T?)
not that the Spurs did own good assets, even less since they gave away Scola and Butler, but I'm just guessing.
the Pavlovic situation in Cleveland for example is still undecided, we know there were talks about Beno and also about Scola, I wonder if some other options have also been discussed.
(of course nothing will happen, till the Varejao question is solved)

Bruno

07-24-2007, 04:44 AM

I wouldn't be surprised to see Spurs going slight over the luxury tax threshold.
After all, they were over it for these last two years.

Bruno

08-19-2007, 05:41 PM

Post Udoka update :

- Espn trade machine is saying that Oberto salary is $3.5M (flat contract) and Bonner salary is $2.7M. I think espn gets this number from the nba front office, they should be accurate.
- Udoka contract is slightly above $2M for 2 years. let's say it's $1M for the first year and $1.08M for the second year.
- I assume Spurs will release Spanoulis and won't have to give him money.

Tim Duncan -- $19,014,188
Tony Parker -- $10,500,000
Manu Ginobili -- $9,079,811
Brent Barry -- $5,544,370
Bruce Bowen -- $4,125,000
Robert Horry -- $3,630,000
Fabricio Oberto -- $3,500,000
Michael Finley -- $3,103,000
Francisco Elson -- $3,000,000
Matt Bonner -- $2,700,000
Beno Udrih -- $1,747,096
Ime Udoka -- $1,000,000
Jacque Vaughn - $1,219,590 ($770,610 against the luxury tax)

Spurs team salary : $67,714,075 against the tax for 13 players.
The Luxury tax threshold is $67.865M, Spurs are $150K under it.

If Spurs want to sign other player like Mahinmi and Williams without paying the tax, they will have to dump a player (likely Beno) for a trade exception or for a player with a lower salary.

timvp

08-19-2007, 05:46 PM

Nice work. It looks like if the Spurs trade away Beno for nothing and then sign Mahinmi and Williams, they'll be under the threshold. However, we've seen the Spurs over the threshold in the past so perhaps they'll opt to keep Beno while adding those two other players.

Once V-Span is officially decided one way or another, I'd expect the next domino to drop to be Mahinmi. Although I do find it suspicious that Buford is so non-committal whenever he speaks of Mahinmi.

ploto

08-19-2007, 05:50 PM

Spurs could definitely use another big man and a younger wing player- even if just for practice. I think they want to keep someone to be a real third PG- so if they trade Beno away, they need someone. Whatever happened with the Hudson story?

Bruno

08-19-2007, 06:25 PM

If Spurs dump Beno somewhere, they will be $1.9M under the tax.

Williams will cost $427K against the tax.
The 3rd PG will cost $771K against the tax.
Mahinmi will cost between $626K and $939K (first round picks could sign between 80% and 120% of the rookie scale.

If Spurs want to stay under the tax, they can :
- Sign a PG, Williams and Mahinmi for $702K. I'm not sure Mahinmi and his agent will agree to that.
- Sign Mahinmi to $939K, Williams and a PG without guaranteed contract for the training camp. If Williams sucks, Spurs keep the PG and waive Williams. If Williams plays well, Spurs keep Williams and waive the PG. Spurs could still sign a PG (the PG cut at the training camp or another one) at the middle of the season and stay under the tax.

Anyway, Spurs must first find someone ready to take Beno.

Brutalis

08-19-2007, 06:27 PM

Probably already mentioned but you forget Udoka's 2 year deal in there as well.

RuffnReadyOzStyle

08-19-2007, 08:49 PM

FO must be annoyed at themselves that they picked up Beno's option... :lol :oops

urunobili

08-20-2007, 04:40 PM

FO must be annoyed at themselves that they picked up Beno's option... :lol :oops
you never know when one of your PG's might get injured and out of the roster for some games.. so it's almost like an insurance policy... but now for another NBA team to pay that for him... UNTRADABLE :madrun

phxspurfan

08-20-2007, 06:03 PM

Tim Duncan -- $19,014,188
Tony Parker -- $10,500,000
Manu Ginobili -- $9,079,811
Brent Barry -- $5,544,370
Bruce Bowen -- $4,125,000
Robert Horry -- $3,630,000
Fabricio Oberto -- $3,167,420
Michael Finley -- $3,103,000
Francisco Elson -- $3,000,000
.
.
.

For some reason, that Barry salary really bothers me. Maybe it's because of it's relative location on the list.

Bruno

10-29-2007, 06:38 PM

Bump.
Update :
- Espn trade machine is saying that Mahinmi salary is $625,840 (80% of the rookie scale). Realgm trade machine is too saying that.
- I assume Marcus Williams, Kris Lang, Lever Pedroza and Keith Langford contracts were fully non guaranteed but it's likely false.

Tim Duncan -- $19,014,188
Tony Parker -- $10,500,000
Manu Ginobili -- $9,079,811
Brent Barry -- $5,544,370
Bruce Bowen -- $4,125,000
Robert Horry -- $3,630,000
Fabricio Oberto -- $3,500,000
Michael Finley -- $3,103,000
Francisco Elson -- $3,000,000
Matt Bonner -- $2,700,000
Ime Udoka -- $1,000,000
Jacque Vaughn - $1,219,590 ($770,610 against the luxury tax)
Ian Mahinmi - $625,840
Darius Washington - $427,163($770,610 against the luxury tax)

Spurs team salary : $67,363,429 against the tax for 14 players.
The Luxury tax threshold is $67.865M, Spurs are $500K under it.

If the guaranteed salary for training camp invite was below $75K, Spurs could have kept Williams and stay bellow the tax threshold.

timvp

10-29-2007, 06:47 PM

Nice. I was just about to go update this thread. Great job :tu

Espn trade machine is saying that Mahinmi salary is $625,840 (80% of the rookie scale). Realgm trade machine is too saying that.Just as I expected. Mahinmi had absolutely no leverage in this situation.

Gotta give props to the Spurs because I don't know of another player in NBA history who received only 80% of the rookie scale.

I assume Marcus Williams, Kris Lang, Lever Pedroza and Keith Langford contracts were fully non guaranteed but it's likely false.Yeah, I highly doubt any of those guys got guaranteed money. Maybe one or two of them got like $15K but no more than that.

If the guaranteed salary for training camp invite was below $75K, Spurs could have kept Williams and stay bellow the tax threshold.Wow. This means either one of two things:

1) This Beno trade developed fast.

2) Williams was horrible. Even worse than timvp said he was.

I don't really think the Beno trade happened overly fast. Although if that didn't, it wouldn't make any sense to have waived Williams. Unless, of course, he was so horribly inept that he wasn't worth spending a few bucks on to send to DLeague.

I knew Williams was bad but to waive just for pure scrubness without any monetary or roster size concern even surprises me.

whottt

10-29-2007, 06:53 PM

I knew Williams was bad but to waive just for pure scrubness without any monetary or roster size concern even surprises me.

Then again...the Spurs might have someone else they want in that spot.

timvp

10-29-2007, 06:55 PM

Then again...the Spurs might have someone else they want in that spot.But anyone else will push the Spurs back over the luxury tax threshold. Williams wouldn't.

ChumpDumper

10-29-2007, 06:55 PM

But anyone else will push the Spurs back over the luxury tax threshold. Williams wouldn't.Would Viktor? :spin

whottt

10-29-2007, 06:58 PM

But anyone else will push the Spurs back over the luxury tax threshold. Williams wouldn't.

Contrary to the way you've been painting of them of late...Spurs have peeped over the lux tax threshold before...

Perhaps they genuinely didn't want Williams because he sucks...and perhaps they want someone else.

Then again...they might just keep it at 14...but they have gone over the lux tax before....I don't know why you'd be so suprised if they did it again.

timvp

10-29-2007, 06:58 PM

Would Viktor? :spinGood point.

Bring him aboard

:smokin

picnroll

10-29-2007, 06:59 PM

Spurs should hold the spot open and see who comes on strong in D-league like Azubuike last year.

whottt

10-29-2007, 07:00 PM

By the way...this deal could have been in the works for a while...

Perhaps there was more to the Spanoulis trade than many think...

To me it was obvious Pop was counting the minutes till he could get someone to replace Beno...for most of last year.

timvp

10-29-2007, 07:02 PM

By the way...this deal could have been in the works for a while...

Perhaps there was more to the Spanoulis trade than many think...:lol Still holding out hope that the Spanoulis deal was more than a salary dump.

This deal couldn't have been in the works for that long considering the T'Wolves just got the trade exception as part of the Ricky Davis trade.

timvp

10-29-2007, 07:03 PM

Spurs should hold the spot open and see who comes on strong in D-league like Azubuike last year.I think I'd rather the Spurs Sanikidze now than rely on their domestic scouts to pick a solid DLeaguer.

Mr. Body

10-29-2007, 07:04 PM

ChumpDumper

10-29-2007, 07:06 PM

I think I'd rather the Spurs Sanikidze now than rely on their domestic scouts to pick a solid DLeaguer.If they listen to McHone at all they should be a little stronger in that department -- but there's no one head and shoulders over Viktor in terms of upside available right now. Bring him in.

Bruno

10-29-2007, 07:06 PM

Wow. This means either one of two things:

1) This Beno trade developed fast.

2) Williams was horrible. Even worse than timvp said he was.

I don't really think the Beno trade happened overly fast. Although if that didn't, it wouldn't make any sense to have waived Williams. Unless, of course, he was so horribly inept that he wasn't worth spending a few bucks on to send to DLeague.

I knew Williams was bad but to waive just for pure scrubness without any monetary or roster size concern even surprises me.

I don't believe at all in the first one because Spurs dumped Williams way before the deadline.

You have too the rule saying that you can't have more than 2 players in the D-League at the same time.

Mahinmi, Washington and Williams need to play in Austin.

If you keep Williams, you had two choices :
- Rotate the three players between Austin and Spurs IL. In this case Williams will hurt Mahinmi's and Washington's development.
- Give Mahinmi and Washington the priority to go in Austin. In this case Williams won't play a lot in Austin.

It's possible that Spurs thinks that :
1) Washington and Mahinmi are way better prospects than Williams and that they don't to see Williams hurting their development.
2) Without playing in Austin, Williams chances to become a good player are very slim.

timvp

10-29-2007, 07:07 PM

If the Spurs needlessly dumped Williams just because he sucked, I now wonder if the Spurs/Toros will even pick him in the D-League draft. I'm suddenly not so sure they will.

whottt

10-29-2007, 07:07 PM

:lol still clinging to the belief that Pop isn't 100% the impetus behind this move, and didn't want Beno gone.

Damn...even Sequ saw it.

whottt

10-29-2007, 07:09 PM

needlessly dumped Williams just because he sucked,

Does not compute.

And why wouldn't they still take him in the D-league draft? Why pay him when they can d-league him?

Holt's Cat

10-29-2007, 07:09 PM

So who's out there looking for a home?

timvp

10-29-2007, 07:12 PM

:lol still clinging to the belief that Pop isn't 100% the impetus behind this move, and didn't want Beno gone.

Damn...even Sequ saw it.:wtf

Link to where I claimed otherwise? I said this had nothing to do with Spanoulis.

Spanoulis != Pop

Does not compute.

And why wouldn't they still take him in the D-league draft? Why pay him when they can d-league him?Because he sucks? And because he refused the Spurs' recommendation to go to Europe?

A scrub who won't listen isn't exactly a guy the Spurs will bend over backwards for.

So who's out there looking for a home?Jumaine Jones got cut. He has always made sense for this team.

picnroll

10-29-2007, 07:15 PM

I think I'd rather the Spurs Sanikidze now than rely on their domestic scouts to pick a solid DLeaguer.
Why can't Snaikidze get time on a weaker Spanish league team or even picked up by a 2nd tier Euro team this year? I'm not convinced he's all that hot. He had a few nice plays in SL most of the time he didn't stand out.

Holt's Cat

10-29-2007, 07:16 PM

Jumaine Jones got cut. He has always made sense for this team.

He'd be nice insurance for an aging 2/3 rotation.

ChumpDumper

10-29-2007, 07:20 PM

Why can't Snaikidze get time on a weaker Spanish league team or even picked up by a 2nd tier Euro team this year? I'm not convinced he's all that hot. He had a few nice plays in SL most of the time he didn't stand out.There's one sure way to find out....

remingtonbo2001

10-29-2007, 07:24 PM

Good point.

Bring him aboard

:smokin

We could give him Beno's house. :spin

Party at Beno's ol' place (Viktor's Place) ! :smokin

Holt's Cat

10-30-2007, 04:44 PM

Spurs team salary : $67,363,429 against the tax for 14 players.
The Luxury tax threshold is $67.865M, Spurs are $500K under it.

So is this accurate or not?

T Park

10-30-2007, 04:50 PM

ChumpDumper

10-30-2007, 04:51 PM

So is this accurate or not?
I have no reason to doubt Bruno.

Keep in mind that a minimum-salaried free agent would actually count $770,610 for luxury tax purposes.

mystargtr34

11-03-2007, 08:02 AM

Just thought i would bump this thread. How can i have a look at Spurs salaries in future years, anyone have a good site? I just wanna see what were lookin at with Duncan's new contract in 09/10???

Thanks

biba

11-03-2007, 08:10 AM

http://www.hoopshype.com/salaries/san_antonio.htm

- Duncan extension not added -

mystargtr34

11-03-2007, 08:46 AM

ah gotcha i was searchin on insidehoops but all i could find was individual salaries....thanks

dbreiden83080

11-03-2007, 02:46 PM

ChumpDumper

11-03-2007, 02:49 PM

What bench?

dbreiden83080

11-03-2007, 02:50 PM

What bench?

Did they get rid of him i did not hear that?

Mr.Bottomtooth

11-03-2007, 02:51 PM

Did they get rid of him i did not hear that?
Yup.
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/5256115.html

dbreiden83080

11-03-2007, 02:57 PM

Yup.
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/5256115.html

Thanks, well he is still getting paid anyway, wish i could make 2.4 mil to suck so bad no team will put me in a game.

ploto

11-04-2007, 02:11 PM

Tim Duncan -- $19,014,188
Tony Parker -- $10,500,000
Manu Ginobili -- $9,079,811
Brent Barry -- $5,544,370
Bruce Bowen -- $4,125,000
Robert Horry -- $3,630,000
Fabricio Oberto -- $3,500,000
Michael Finley -- $3,103,000
Francisco Elson -- $3,000,000
Matt Bonner -- $2,700,000
Ime Udoka -- $1,000,000
Jacque Vaughn - $1,219,590 ($770,610 against the luxury tax)
Ian Mahinmi - $625,840
Darius Washington - $427,163($770,610 against the luxury tax)

Spurs team salary : $67,363,429 against the tax for 14 players.

The Luxury tax threshold is $67.865M, Spurs are $500K under it.

If the guaranteed salary for training camp invite was below $75K, Spurs could have kept Williams and stay bellow the tax threshold.
Wasn't there a claim that the Spurs paid Spanoulis something- like maybe about $500,000.

Bruno

11-04-2007, 04:18 PM

Wasn't there a claim that the Spurs paid Spanoulis something- like maybe about $500,000.

There have too been some rumor that Panathinaikos give Spurs under the table money (which is against the CBA) but nothing really reliable.
We don't know for sure if Spurs have given some money to Spanoulis.

I think that Spurs haven't given money to Spanoulis because it's the most logical choice. There is too a strong hint of that : Spanoulis has been "released" and not "waived" like other players. The only other player "released" this summer was Derek Fisher and he has left Utah without getting a dollar from them.

ShoogarBear

11-04-2007, 08:26 PM

Did they get rid of him i did not hear that?:lmao

Scola Thread!

tinysands

12-01-2007, 04:55 AM

If the season ended today, 11 teams would be taxpayers, with the Lakers now carrying the 10th-highest tax bill from that group. There are an additional six teams less than $1 million away from the $67,865,000 threshold, with San Antonio closest to the line at just under $30,000 away after shedding Beno Udrih's contract just before the season started.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/dailydime?page=dime-071201-02

Bruno

12-01-2007, 07:39 AM

Thanks for the info.
After a little research, they have a different number of mine because I've made a mistake. :)
Vaughn salary doesn't count for $770,610 against the tax/cap but for $1,219,590.
Vets with more than 2 years of service count as vet with 2 years of service against the cap only if they have signed a contract for one year or less (ten days or remaining of the season). Vaughn signed a two years contract and doesn't enter in this category.
With this mistake corrected, Spurs salary is $67,812,409. Spurs are $55K under the tax. the number is close to espn's one, it's possible that they have given some guaranteed money to training camp invite or that one salary is wrong by a small margin.

It put a new light on some choices made by Spurs this summer :
- Spurs low-balling Mahinmi by giving him 80% of the rookie scale makes more sense because it has allowed Spurs to go under the tax.
- Spurs waiving Marcus Williams makes also more sense. It was him or Washington. Spurs couldn't have kept both and stay under the tax.

With Spurs being that close of the luxury tax, they won't sign a 15th player. Even a 10 days contract will put them over the tax. If Spurs do a trade or waive Washington they will have the financial flexibility to sign someone else. However I don't see Spurs waiving Washington after what he has done with Spurs during the training camp and the start of the regular season and if he continues to play well in D-League. I don't see Spurs doing a trade unless there is a big weakness in the team or Spurs have a great opportunity. The only thing Spurs could maybe do is to sign someone something like two days before the playoffs but it seems very unlikely. Barring a surprise, Spurs will be one more year without a long SF.

mystargtr34

12-01-2007, 07:49 AM

Interesting... surely RC would pay a 15th guy on a 10-dayer if there was an injury :lol... probly not..

Were in a good position

timvp

12-01-2007, 01:27 PM

with San Antonio closest to the line at just under $30,000 away after shedding Beno Udrih's contract just before the season started.That sucks. Basically the Spurs have no roster flexibility at all. Even if a player on Austin explodes, they'd cost too much to sign.

For the Spurs to sign someone, they'd either have to waive Washington or salary dump someone like Mahinmi.

:td

Nice find though, tinysands :)

Barring a surprise, Spurs will be one more year without a long SF.It does make me wonder why the Spurs would sign DerMarr Johnson to the Toros. If they have no room to potentially sign him to the big league team, why stunt the growth of other small forwards who could develop in the system like Bow2n and Williams? That doesn't make sense to me. Unless the Spurs/Toros just aren't high on either Bow2n or Williams and want to actually win games.

What's the latest estimate of how much of a penalty it will be to go over the luxury tax threshold this year? If the Spurs sign someone like Johnson, how much will that actually end up costing them after adding up all the penalties?

Thanks.

Bruno

12-01-2007, 02:07 PM

Unless the Spurs/Toros just aren't high on either Bow2n or Williams and want to actually win games.

He could be the explanation of the Johnson signing.

About Spurs being low on Williams :
When you look at Spurs move this summer, after the July moves( Oberto, Vaughn, Bonner and The Trade), Spurs have sign Udoka and Mahinmi.
First, they have low-balled Udoka and Mahinmi with and end up $820K under the threshold (outside Udrih who was on the trading block). It likely means that Spurs were envisaging the possibility to have a 14th player paid the min and who would cost $770K against the tax and not Williams who cost $427K against the tax.
Second, they signed Udoka, that is to say a defensive SG/SF. Williams was introduced as a defensive SG/SF. I tend to think that Spurs wouldn't have signed Udoka if they were high on Williams. It was the same thing that Spurs drafting Williams meaning that they weren't high on White.
They had maybe given up on him as fast as you that is to say during summer leagues.

I don't see something hinting that Spurs are high on Bow2n. Chumpdumper is high on him but he isn't Spurs.

What's the latest estimate of how much of a penalty it will be to go over the luxury tax threshold this year? If the Spurs sign someone like Johnson, how much will that actually end up costing them after adding up all the penalties?

I think the penalty for being $1 above the tax will be around $2M.
Signing someone like Johnson will cost something like $3M.

Bruno

12-01-2007, 02:25 PM

Spurs/Toros could also have signed Johnson as an insurance policy.
In the case Spurs do a trade at the deadline, they could be happy to have a cheap long SF solution available with Johnson.
It is not the likely case for the moment but who knows what will happen in 2 months. Spurs could decide to dump Mahinmi, Bonner or Udoka.

ChumpDumper

12-01-2007, 02:45 PM

I think the Spurs are using some shotgun techniques to fill pretty much all positions on the Toros like they did the point guard slot. They're just taking the most talented players they have available to them and seeing if they can play in a Spurs system. I believe they were pretty low in the order of teams to pick up newly available players like DerMarr in the first place. LA and Colorado are now at the top of the list since they had players called up -- we might not have even gotten DerMarr if Jelani McCoy had been called up any sooner.

I doubt the Spurs are concerned about a minutes crunch in any position on the Toros. After getting the assignees their 30-35 minutes, they'll probably just give the minutes to whomever they like or want to see in a particular game. It's not like the players are on big contracts or in a position to complain to the press.

As far as the luxury tax goes, Holt has been talked into going over before though breaking it for a D-Leaguer is a pretty hard sell. We should always keep in mind the possibility of some cap room and/or open roster spots resulting from a trade.

Darkwaters

12-01-2007, 04:09 PM

We should always keep in mind the possibility of some cap room and/or open roster spots resulting from a trade.

The two most likely to be moved at this point are probably Elson and/or Bonner.

anakha

12-08-2007, 03:31 AM

ChumpDumper

12-08-2007, 03:36 AM

If the Spurs keep winning over 80% of their games, I don't see why they would do anything.

Bruno

12-08-2007, 08:01 AM

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/dailydime?page=dime-071208-09

Just found this interesting - the Spurs are just $27,591 under the threshold.

Does this pretty much mean that the last roster spot will remain unfilled, assuming no trades?

Thanks for the link.

Filling the last spot will cost a lot money. Teams are paying $77M in Luxury tax, so signing a min player for the rest of the season will cost :
- $2.6M less in luxury tax redistribution.
- At least $320K in salary (more if it is a vet).
- $500K in luxury tax.
The $500K and $320K will lower because it's prorated on the season but the $2.6M won't change a lot. Even signing a player in March will cost more than $3M. Spurs will spend $3M on a player only if he is only a hell of a prospect and finding that kind of players in the middle of a season seems very unlikely.

It looks like also that Spurs had guaranteed $30K to players cut at the end of the training camp. Washington guaranteed money should also have been under $25K.
Spurs have been lucky to find a player like Washington given that they have spend little money on their training camp players.

Bruno

02-08-2008, 07:53 PM

With all the trade talks, I figure it was a good time to make an update about Spurs luxury tax situation.

So, Spurs salaries against the luxury tax are :
Tim Duncan -- $19,014,188
Tony Parker -- $10,500,000
Manu Ginobili -- $9,079,811
Brent Barry -- $5,544,370
Bruce Bowen -- $4,125,000
Robert Horry -- $3,630,000
Fabricio Oberto -- $3,500,000
Michael Finley -- $3,103,000
Francisco Elson -- $3,000,000
Matt Bonner -- $2,700,000
Ime Udoka -- $1,000,000
Jacque Vaughn -- $1,219,590
Ian Mahinmi -- $625,840
Darius Washington -- $290,112
Marcus Williams -- $31,731
Keith Langford -- $58,929
Dermarr Johnson -- $54,396
Jeremy Richardson -- $90,660
Damon Stoudamire -- $335,442
Money given to training camp players -- $25,000

Spurs total salary against the luxury tax -- $67,928,069

The luxury tax threshold is $67.865M, Spurs are $63,069 over it.

timmy21_4rings

02-08-2008, 10:14 PM

Spurs' reckless experiments with D-League make them to go above luxury tax threshold
Marcus Williams -- $31,731
Keith Langford -- $58,929
Dermarr Johnson -- $54,396
Jeremy Richardson -- $90,660

exstatic

02-08-2008, 11:38 PM

Spurs' reckless experiments with D-League make them to go above luxury tax threshold
Marcus Williams -- $31,731
Keith Langford -- $58,929
Dermarr Johnson -- $54,396
Jeremy Richardson -- $90,660
If they really didn't want to go over, they wouldn't have signed Damon. So much for "The Spurs won't pay the tax!!". Won't be the first time, either, but they still have time to dump Elson for a cheaper ending contract.

timmy21_4rings

02-09-2008, 12:41 AM

If they really didn't want to go over, they wouldn't have signed Damon. So much for "The Spurs won't pay the tax!!". Won't be the first time, either, but they still have time to dump Elson for a cheaper ending contract.

Spurs signing Damon is not a calculated move, it is a desperate move. I am not saying Spurs never paid tax..So far Spur's D-league music chair play has not worked.

With Shaq's signing, I do not see Elson moving anywhere. Even if he goes, we will get back a center..I am not sure the final product would be better than what we lose. It is because not many people will be willing takers of Elson. Most probably, he will go with another player that may be a contributor to our team which we may or may not compensate with the incoming player.

Bruno

02-21-2008, 04:55 AM

An update after the Kurt Thomas trade :

So, Spurs salaries against the luxury tax are :
Tim Duncan -- $19,014,188
Tony Parker -- $10,500,000
Manu Ginobili -- $9,079,811
Kurt Thomas -- $8,091,188
Bruce Bowen -- $4,125,000
Robert Horry -- $3,630,000
Fabricio Oberto -- $3,500,000
Michael Finley -- $3,103,000
Matt Bonner -- $2,700,000
Ime Udoka -- $1,000,000
Jacque Vaughn -- $1,219,590
Ian Mahinmi -- $625,840
Darius Washington -- $290,112
Marcus Williams -- $31,731
Keith Langford -- $58,929
Dermarr Johnson -- $54,396
Jeremy Richardson -- $90,660
Damon Stoudamire -- $335,442
Money given to training camp players -- $25,000

Spurs total salary against the luxury tax -- $67,474,887

The luxury tax threshold is $67.865M, Spurs are $390,113 under it.

If Spurs sign a player today for the reminder of the season, it will $253,848 cost against the tax.

The soonest Spurs are allowed to sign Barry (if he is waived and don't sign with another team) is March 22nd. If they sign him that day for the reminder of the season with a min salary, it will cost them $117,858.

So Spurs can sign now a player and keep the possibility to sign Barry when it will be allowed by the CBA without going over the tax.

We will see what Spurs will decided to do, signing D-League players to 10 days contract, signing a vet who doesn't play or who will be waived by his team before March 1st or doing nothing. Spurs have the financial flexibility to do what they want.

timvp

02-21-2008, 08:34 AM

Phenomanul

02-21-2008, 08:39 AM

Thanks for the update. I was about to go through those numbers myself.

I'd like to see the Spurs bring in a fifth swingman with this money they saved. The best option is a Barry return, however I don't think that's a sure bet. A team like the Suns or the Mavs may throw more money at Barry than the Spurs will. Plus if Barry wasn't made aware of such a plan, he could see this trade a slap in the face.

If a team like the Suns promises him a spot in the rotation plus more money, why would Barry return to the Spurs for less money and the very likely possibility that Pop would rather use Udoka ahead of him?

If Barry isn't brought back, there needs to be someone brought in. From the Toros, Keith Langford would make the most sense but I'm far from being sold on him. I'd rather a veteran player. Hell, bringing in Latrell Sprewell as an emergency fifth swingman might not be a bad option if Barry doesn't pan out . . .

Another swingmen who might get bought out who'd make a decent amount of sense is Gordon Giricek. Giricek sucks but for a minimum paid fifth wing, you can do a lot worse.

Barry going to Phoenix or the Lakers would be deadly against the Spurs.

Bruno, was Barry's value above the combination of his salary with Elson's?

101A

02-21-2008, 08:40 AM

Thanks for the update. I was about to go through those numbers myself.

I'd like to see the Spurs bring in a fifth swingman with this money they saved. The best option is a Barry return, however I don't think that's a sure bet. A team like the Suns or the Mavs may throw more money at Barry than the Spurs will. Plus if Barry wasn't made aware of such a plan, he could see this trade a slap in the face.

If a team like the Suns promises him a spot in the rotation plus more money, why would Barry return to the Spurs for less money and the very likely possibility that Pop would rather use Udoka ahead of him?

If Barry isn't brought back, there needs to be someone brought in. From the Toros, Keith Langford would make the most sense but I'm far from being sold on him. I'd rather a veteran player. Hell, bringing in Latrell Sprewell as an emergency fifth swingman might not be a bad option if Barry doesn't pan out . . .

Another swingmen who might get bought out who'd make a decent amount of sense is Gordon Giricek. Giricek sucks but for a minimum paid fifth wing, you can do a lot worse.This whole deal is within the family. If Seattle immediately wants to buy Barry out; and the Spurs make overtures to sign him; I'm pretty sure he would know what's what.

Why would he choose SA over Dallas or Phoenix, despite possibly more $$$? He and his family live here, for one. He's a popular player, knows the system; and gets thirty days off.

I don't know that that will happen, but if he gets bought out, and the Spurs want him back; I'm betting he comes back.

Bruno

02-21-2008, 12:01 PM

Bruno, was Barry's value above the combination of his salary with Elson's?

It is Kurt Thomas. I've changed salaries without changing names. :)
Thanks for pointing it.

Ed Helicopter Jones

02-21-2008, 12:08 PM

Spurs total salary against the luxury tax -- $67,474,887

The luxury tax threshold is $67.865M, Spurs are $390,113 under it.

If Spurs sign a player today for the reminder of the season, it will $253,848 cost against the tax.

The soonest Spurs are allowed to sign Barry (if he is waived and don't sign with another team) is March 22nd. If they sign him that day for the reminder of the season with a min salary, it will cost them $117,858.

So Spurs can sign now a player and keep the possibility to sign Barry when it will be allowed by the CBA without going over the tax.

We will see what Spurs will decided to do, signing D-League players to 10 days contract, signing a vet who doesn't play or who will be waived by his team before March 1st or doing nothing. Spurs have the financial flexibility to do what they want.

Amazing. The Spurs sure know how to balance their checkbook.

Ed Helicopter Jones

02-21-2008, 12:14 PM

The Thomas move allows them to sign two more deals and still be $19K under the cap.

Unfreakingbelievable.

ChumpDumper

02-29-2008, 03:53 PM

So the Spurs can take on another player if they choose without paying the tax. Hopefully they audition some more young swingmen in the coming weeks.

Holt's Cat

02-29-2008, 03:54 PM

So the Spurs can take on another player if they choose without paying the tax. Hopefully they audition some more young swingmen in the coming weeks.

Giricek.

ROFL.

timvp

02-29-2008, 03:55 PM

The only piece this team needs now is the elusive Long Small Forward. Which means the Spurs will sign a short shooting guard.

:pctoss

Holt's Cat

02-29-2008, 03:56 PM

The only piece this team needs now is the elusive Long Small Forward. Which means the Spurs will sign a short shooting guard.

:pctoss

DerMarr?

ChumpDumper

02-29-2008, 04:03 PM

I don't know what happened to DerMarr between last Friday and Saturday, but he sure looked like an NBA player that second game. I'll see if he continues that tonight.

Otherwise it's kind of the usual D-League suspects -- Keith Langford (last chance, I guess), Marcus Williams (also improving), Sean Banks (getting pretty consistent this season), Kasib Powell (quite good on offense and defense) -- that's about all that's left worth looking at.

Ghost Writer

02-29-2008, 04:07 PM

If I am Manu, I demand contract renegotiations after this season.

How can he be making less than Parker?

ChumpDumper

02-29-2008, 04:08 PM

If I am Manu, I demand contract renegotiations after this season.I suppose he could demand it, but I can't see why since it isn't allowed.

Holt's Cat

02-29-2008, 04:10 PM

I suppose he could demand it, but I can't see why since it isn't allowed.

ROFL. Perhaps an extension?

jcrod

02-29-2008, 04:13 PM

Bruno

02-29-2008, 04:13 PM

So the Spurs can take on another player if they choose without paying the tax. Hopefully they audition some more young swingmen in the coming weeks.

If Barry sign a multiyear contract, he will cost more against the luxury tax ($186,526).
Spurs will be $203,587 under the tax. If they sign a player on March 4th or after, he could be kept for the reminder of the season.

Maybe they will sign a D-leaguer (Marcus Williams ;) ) on March 4th to a 10 days contract. With Spurs deep roster, the 15th spot could be dedicated to a prospect.

Ghost Writer

02-29-2008, 04:14 PM

ROFL. Perhaps an extension?
Yes. Whatever...

Is Chump right? If so, just another reason why the NBA is better than other leagues.

Plaxico Burress want to renegotiate on the strength of his playoffs in the NFL.

MajorMike

02-29-2008, 04:15 PM

So Brent is going to get a pro-rated vet min?

Quasar

02-29-2008, 04:18 PM

Otherwise it's kind of the usual D-League suspects -- Keith Langford (last chance, I guess), Marcus Williams (also improving), Sean Banks (getting pretty consistent this season), Kasib Powell (quite good on offense and defense) -- that's about all that's left worth looking at.

Wasn't Langford signed by some European team??

ChumpDumper

02-29-2008, 04:18 PM

I think the only way a contract could be renegotiated is if the team is under the cap.

jcrod

02-29-2008, 04:19 PM

Yes. Whatever...

Is Chump right? If so, just another reason why the NBA is better than other leagues.

Plaxico Burress want to renegotiate on the strength of his playoffs in the NFL.

Yeah, well the NFL salary structure is screwed up. Why do you think you don't see many trades.

ChumpDumper

02-29-2008, 04:19 PM

Wasn't Langford signed by some European team??I think he is supposed to leave for Italy today. We'll find out in a few hours if that actually happened.

timvp

03-01-2008, 02:32 AM

The only piece this team needs now is the elusive Long Small Forward.He's not really that long but Ira Newble was waived by the Sonics today. He pretty much sucks but as a 14th man who could be called upon to defender stronger perimeter players, you won't find much better right now.

tinysands

03-02-2008, 08:41 AM

Spurs managing just fine

I've long thought the San Antonio Spurs were the best-run franchise in the NBA and maybe in all of sports. This season's cap situation illustrates why:The defending-champion Spurs' payroll is $67.3 million -- just $500,000 below that luxury-tax threshold that will make nine other teams pay that financial penalty to the league.

So the Spurs held together that championship core, and added a veteran big man (Kurt Thomas) at the trade deadline, and they still sidestep the tax. Sure, life is easier when you're building around Tim Duncan, but that is great management.

http://www.charlotte.com/bobcats/story/518247.html

doldrums

03-02-2008, 09:14 AM

He's not really that long but Ira Newble was waived by the Sonics today. He pretty much sucks but as a 14th man who could be called upon to defender stronger perimeter players, you won't find much better right now.

A "14th man" :lol

MagnusKrauss

05-30-2008, 12:45 PM

bump for the offseason.

(free agent restriction)name - position (age) salary against the salary cap.

c - c/f

tim duncan - f/c (32) $20,598,704
ian mahinmi - c (21) $625,840
fabricio oberto - c (33) $3,500,000
matt bonner - c/f (28) $3,038,750
(UFA)kurt thomas - c/f (35) $8,091,188
(UFA)robert horry - f/c (37) $3,630,000

f, f/g

bruce bowen - f (36) $4,125,000
ime udoka - f (30) $1,000,000
(UFA)dermarr johnson - f/g (28) $54,396

g, g/f

tony parker - g (26) $11,550,000
manu ginobili - g (30) $9,905,248
(UFA/P)brent barry - g (36) $117,858 //is this figure right?//
(UFA)damon stoudamire - g (34) $335,442
(UFA)michael finley - g/f (35) $3,103,000
(UFA/P)jacque vaughn - g (33) $1,262,275

can anyone check if these figures are correct for the 08-09 season?

mystargtr34

07-22-2008, 08:19 PM

bump... update

MagnusKrauss

07-23-2008, 01:49 AM

(free agent restriction)name - position (age) salary against the salary cap.

c - c/f

tim duncan - f/c (32) $20,598,704
ian mahinmi - c (21) $625,840
fabricio oberto - c (33) $3,500,000
matt bonner - c/f (28) $3,038,750 //bonner ain't a c/f
kurt thomas - c/f (35) [Unknown]

f, f/g

bruce bowen - f (36) $4,125,000
ime udoka - f (30) $1,000,000

g, g/f

tony parker - g (26) $11,550,000
manu ginobili - g (30) $9,905,248
roger mason, jr. g (27) $3,750,000 //not sure about this amount
jacque vaughn - g (33) $797,581

Projected Rookie Contracts:
George Hill - $1,006,200
James Gist - $442,114 //austin-bound
Malik Hairston - $442,114 //stil not sure about him making the roster

Expired Contracts:
(UFA)damon stoudamire - g (34) $335,442 //gone
(UFA)michael finley - g/f (35) $3,103,000
(UFA)dermarr johnson - f/g (28) $54,396 //gone
(UFA)robert horry - f/c (37) $3,630,000 //not coming back