Killing our cap flexibility for next summer [Archive]

twilo73

07-04-2007, 07:49 AM

timvp

07-04-2007, 07:52 AM

Spurs could still have about $8M in cap room next summer:

http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=73111

anakha

07-04-2007, 08:00 AM

As many of you know there will be some amazing players available next summer, and the Spurs would have significant room to go after at least one. But now I keep reading how we are going to sign totally secondary players like Bonner and Vaughn to multi-year contracts!!!!!!!!!!!!! Why, why, why????

Sign them to one year or go after other players for one year and try to get another superstar next summer!!! After all Bonner and Vaughn are actually not that good at all.

Very few players are willing to accept one-year contracts when they could push for job stability by asking for contracts over multiple years.

Besides, this FO doesn't sign just anybody - they have to be willing to buy into and play within Pop's system. And risking antagonizing these 'secondary players' - most of who were instrumental in the championship run - for the sake of chasing after a big-name free agent - who may or may not sign with this team - is a bonehead move for any FO to do.

Vito Corleone

07-04-2007, 08:23 AM

For those of us who don't know, who are the FA in 2k8?

exstatic

07-04-2007, 09:52 AM

Spurs could still have about $8M in cap room next summer:

http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=73111
Not to mention that the TV/media deal just went up 20%. That takes effect next summer, and could significantly bump both the cap and LTax figures upwards.

Aggie Hoopsfan

07-04-2007, 10:10 AM

As many of you know there will be some amazing players available next summer, and the Spurs would have significant room to go after at least one. But now I keep reading how we are going to sign totally secondary players like Bonner and Vaughn to multi-year contracts!!!!!!!!!!!!! Why, why, why????

Sign them to one year or go after other players for one year and try to get another superstar next summer!!! After all Bonner and Vaughn are actually not that good at all.

First, most of those 'amazing' players will probably sign extensions with their current squads thsi summer.

Second, when have the Spurs ever landed a big free agent with free cap room? Cap room for the Spurs is fool's gold. See: Jason Kidd, Jermaine O'Neal, Chris Webber, etc.

The Spurs are doing the right thing.

mowgli

07-04-2007, 11:12 AM

Second, when have the Spurs ever landed a big free agent with free cap room? Cap room for the Spurs is fool's gold. See: Jason Kidd, Jermaine O'Neal, Chris Webber, etc.

I always wonder why that happens. Is it because San Antonio is a small-market team. Over and over, these players figure they can lead a lesser team to a title as long as they are getting paid more, as if the extra money will somehow enhance their abilities. Playing on a team with Tim Duncan is like hitting the lottery - is it that blindingly obvious? I don't think these players care about winning as much as they say they do.

SequSpur

07-04-2007, 11:33 AM

Bonner is not a secondary player, he is a beer seller

Aggie Hoopsfan

07-04-2007, 11:47 AM

I always wonder why that happens. Is it because San Antonio is a small-market team. Over and over, these players figure they can lead a lesser team to a title as long as they are getting paid more, as if the extra money will somehow enhance their abilities. Playing on a team with Tim Duncan is like hitting the lottery - is it that blindingly obvious? I don't think these players care about winning as much as they say they do.

Uh, yeah, it took you this long to figure it out?

Most of the guys would rather have an extra two million a year than play an extra 16 games in the playoffs and win a ring.

You see it time and again in pro sports. Guys take the money first, then they sign up for the title joy ride late in their career when they've been reduced to a role player.

SA is a small market, and honestly, for a lot of these guys, it's about the ego and being the alpha dog. How can you be the alpha dog on the Spurs when it's got Tim Duncan on it?

Spurs Dynasty 21

07-04-2007, 11:59 AM

I've been saying this all along, players like Vaughn and Bonner and garbage

and will prevent the Spurs from throwing big money at any goo players

SCUST @ Vaughn in a Spurs uni for 2 more seasons

T Park

07-04-2007, 12:24 PM

I've been saying this all along, players like Vaughn and Bonner and garbage

who is this new player garbage?

Aggie Hoopsfan

07-04-2007, 12:32 PM

I've been saying this all along, players like Vaughn and Bonner and garbage

and will prevent the Spurs from throwing big money at any goo players

SCUST @ Vaughn in a Spurs uni for 2 more seasons

Look, I know you're one of the dumbest posters on this site, but when have the Spurs ever landed a marquee FA with big money?

Spurs front office is finally learning from past mistakes - Jason Kidd, Jermaine O'Neal, Chris Webber, among others - those were all guys offered big money (in the case of Kidd and O'Neal, they were offered the max), who didn't come.

The secret to the Spurs success comes in landing hidden talent in the draft and as part of trades, and making them better players.

Bonner arguably would have been the first big off the bench in the playoffs this year if he hadn't gotten hurt. And I'll take the talent evaluation capabilities of Pop and Co. over your dumb ass.

Switchman

07-04-2007, 12:58 PM

This sucks. I want Nocioni for the Spurs so baaaaaaad.

Bonner....bah.

No fucking chance at a repeat :imo

Vito Corleone

07-04-2007, 02:24 PM

Look, I know you're one of the dumbest posters on this site, but when have the Spurs ever landed a marquee FA with big money?

Spurs front office is finally learning from past mistakes - Jason Kidd, Jermaine O'Neal, Chris Webber, among others - those were all guys offered big money (in the case of Kidd and O'Neal, they were offered the max), who didn't come.

The secret to the Spurs success comes in landing hidden talent in the draft and as part of trades, and making them better players.

Bonner arguably would have been the first big off the bench in the playoffs this year if he hadn't gotten hurt. And I'll take the talent evaluation capabilities of Pop and Co. over your dumb ass.

So what you are saying is the Spurs should just accept they can't get anyone and just go for the crap guys and hope we can be a .500 team?

I guess that means the Jazz are a better organization in a better city?

they were about 20 million under the cap about 3 years ago when they landed two of the top free agents in that years crop, Boozer and Okur.

The Spurs have a winning organization with a winning attitude, all they need is the cap space and they will get some big name FA. The big difference between what happened from 2k1 - 2k3 is irrelevant today because NBA players now know the San Antonio Spurs are the premier organization in the league and those other organizations that mimic us are also having the same great success, (see Cleveland).

koopa

07-04-2007, 02:44 PM

lol @ ppl actucally thinking we can sign another superstar in 08, young ppl don't want to play in SA, and we already have 3 superstars, why the fuck do we need more??? we don't need another superstar, we need younger role players that complement tim, tony, and manu, not someone that is gonna come in and want to take over.......... ppl need to realize that young star players don't want to come here no matter how much money we have, the only way to get a young star player is if we pick in the lottery

the spurs are doing a decent job in keeping the team together and giving out contracts that won't make much of an impact on our supposed 08 plan..........

El_Mago

07-04-2007, 02:59 PM

8 million is not enough for a superstar next summer.

if darko is asking for 10 million this summer...the likes of Brand, Arenas, etc...are definitely out of the question....

StoneCutter

07-04-2007, 03:02 PM

While we don't know all the details of the Oberto, Vaughn, and Bonner contracts yet, they will probably be reasonable. Even if the Spurs could land a big name free agent next year, they would still have to put together a full roster. The FO had a good look at these players and liked what they saw, so they signed them for a fair price. Sounds good to me.

ManuTastic

07-04-2007, 03:24 PM

So what you are saying is the Spurs should just accept they can't get anyone and just go for the crap guys and hope we can be a .500 team?

I guess that means the Jazz are a better organization in a better city?

they were about 20 million under the cap about 3 years ago when they landed two of the top free agents in that years crop, Boozer and Okur.

The Spurs have a winning organization with a winning attitude, all they need is the cap space and they will get some big name FA. The big difference between what happened from 2k1 - 2k3 is irrelevant today because NBA players now know the San Antonio Spurs are the premier organization in the league and those other organizations that mimic us are also having the same great success, (see Cleveland).

Cleveland is having 'great success'? :dizzy

I think you're wrong in believing that the league is split between 'big name free agents' and 'crap guys.'
Quite often, big names turn out to be just as crappy, and cost you a lot more. Starbury, Francis, Webber, jeezus the list gets long fast...

And as for Boozer and Okur, yes Boozer is a catch, but Okur is a crap guy (or at least way overpaid). So I don't see how you can use the Jazz for your argument.

Most of the 'big names' would not fit in here because they'd have to defer to Tim too much. They like being the highest-paid big dog, because they believe this equals "respect." The fact that it rarely leads to championships seems to elude them entirely. So fuck 'em. We don't need 'em. SA does a good job getting guys who know their roles--i.e., always subordinate to TD--and play hard.

K-State Spur

07-04-2007, 03:53 PM

lol @ ppl actucally thinking we can sign another superstar in 08, young ppl don't want to play in SA, and we already have 3 superstars

There's not much evidence to back this up. Sure, we haven't signed a superstar since we drafted Duncan - but A LOT of teams haven't either. The Mavs haven't signed a superstar outright in a long time, Phoenix got Nash and hasn't landed a huge free agent since, and the Lakers - supposedly the top destination in the NBA - haven't landed a prime free agent since Shaq in the late 90s.

The way the CBA is situated nowadays, it's a relatively rare occurence for a truly great player to move teams via free agency.

The way most great players move teams is a) via trade or b) they are signed to a contract vastly above their actual production, then explode in their new location (i.e. Boozer). Of course, for every Boozer there are 5 Dalembert's who remain long on potential, but never do get it together.

Spurs Dynasty 21

07-04-2007, 04:09 PM

koopa

07-04-2007, 04:31 PM

There's not much evidence to back this up. Sure, we haven't signed a superstar since we drafted Duncan - but A LOT of teams haven't either. The Mavs haven't signed a superstar outright in a long time, Phoenix got Nash and hasn't landed a huge free agent since, and the Lakers - supposedly the top destination in the NBA - haven't landed a prime free agent since Shaq in the late 90s.

The way the CBA is situated nowadays, it's a relatively rare occurence for a truly great player to move teams via free agency.

The way most great players move teams is a) via trade or b) they are signed to a contract vastly above their actual production, then explode in their new location (i.e. Boozer). Of course, for every Boozer there are 5 Dalembert's who remain long on potential, but never do get it together.

well i'm basing it off the fact that when we tried to get a big name guy, they didn't come, one year we had to settle for derek anderson, and another time we had to settle for rasho......... so i doubt we'll get any superstar.......... and i don't get why everyone thinks we need one, we just need younger role players, which we'll be able to do next year with nice cap space......

Spurs Dynasty 21

07-04-2007, 04:34 PM

There's not much evidence to back this up.

LOL

Jermain O'Neal, Jason Kidd, hell even Sharif Abdul Rahim didn't want any part of SA

no one like to come to SA, the Spurs needed picks like Parker and Manu to pan out

koopa

07-04-2007, 04:34 PM

thanks for proving to everyone how stupid you are

stick to the WNBA moron

i'm guessing you didn't watch much spurs games, cause what aggie said there isn't a reach........... bonner was playing pretty badass, he was scoring, he was rebounding, he was playing decent defense

BeerIsGood!

07-04-2007, 05:00 PM

Bonner's lack of defensive positioning and cohesiveness is his biggest obstacle to overcome next season. If his defense improves to the level the Spurs need, he'll be a big addition in the playoffs next year over this year given he's healthy.

coachmac87

07-04-2007, 05:26 PM

Cleveland is having 'great success'? :dizzy

I think you're wrong in believing that the league is split between 'big name free agents' and 'crap guys.'
Quite often, big names turn out to be just as crappy, and cost you a lot more. Starbury, Francis, Webber, jeezus the list gets long fast...

And as for Boozer and Okur, yes Boozer is a catch, but Okur is a crap guy (or at least way overpaid). So I don't see how you can use the Jazz for your argument.

Most of the 'big names' would not fit in here because they'd have to defer to Tim too much. They like being the highest-paid big dog, because they believe this equals "respect." The fact that it rarely leads to championships seems to elude them entirely. So fuck 'em. We don't need 'em. SA does a good job getting guys who know their roles--i.e., always subordinate to TD--and play hard.

hey buddy im pretty sure going to the finals is pretty damn successful...they just ran into the big bad wolf(spurs). it all depends if the spurs repeat...if the spurs repeat 5 rings in 10 years!!!(4 out of last 6) i dont see why anybody wouldnt want to play for the spurs..it depends who they go after but dont expect them to get a gilbert arenas, or kg, or those big time superstars....spurs can easily get a shawn marion type caliber player...somebody whos been the 2nd or 3rd option..and th spurs can offer a pretty decent contract to go along with a chance for a title..only an idiot will turn down that...aka kidd and webber...havent done a damn thing since turning down the spurs..if the spurs offer u a chane to get pt and money..u better fucking take advantage of that oppurtunity..bitches

lrrr

07-04-2007, 05:32 PM

It isn't about players not wanting to play in SA. As another poster says, its about the CBA. How many big name free agents have been lured away from their current team? People keep talking about Kidd and JOneal, did they change teams? Exactly how many big name FA's have CHOSEN to sign with a new team? Nash? It was pretty clear Dallas wasn't trying particularly hard to re-sign him after Bibby owned his ass.

K-State Spur

07-04-2007, 06:53 PM

well i'm basing it off the fact that when we tried to get a big name guy, they didn't come, one year we had to settle for derek anderson, and another time we had to settle for rasho......... so i doubt we'll get any superstar.......... and i don't get why everyone thinks we need one, we just need younger role players, which we'll be able to do next year with nice cap space......

Except that "big name guy" stayed with his current team because he could sign for more money there.

Look at the history of really "big time" free agents. The vast majority of them re-sign with their current team. And not always because they love that team, but because that team can pay them more than anybody else.

K-State Spur

07-04-2007, 06:55 PM

LOL

Jermain O'Neal, Jason Kidd, hell even Sharif Abdul Rahim didn't want any part of SA

no one like to come to SA, the Spurs needed picks like Parker and Manu to pan out

O'Neal & Kidd - hrmmm, sounds like two guys who took THE MONEY. We couldn't - by CBA rules - offer them as much as Indy and NJ. It had nothing to do with them preferring those towns over SA. In fact, since Kidd considered the Spurs very strongly despite the fact that he would have had to play here for a bit of a discount - doesn't that say the exact opposite about players' feelings towards the SAS?

As for Rahim - a) since when was he a top free agent? b) how much did we offer him compared to SAC?

mystargtr34

07-04-2007, 07:18 PM

Call me crazy but wouldnt Artest be avavilable next season assuming he excercises his ETO for about 8-9 million. Wow lol teams wouldnt be able to get over the 75 point mark with him here.

Ok i just overlooked his one million negatives but yeh, i think the Spurs will sign a youngish star next season in the 8-9 million range depending on how this TV agreement affects the cap.

Russ

07-04-2007, 07:24 PM

Vaughn I agree with. Bonner is a bit of a mystery. He was just a throw-in the Spurs had to take be rid of Rasho's contract. Now he's Malik Rose?

SAGambler

07-04-2007, 07:28 PM

Spurs win championship in '05. Should have won it again in '06 and did win it again in '07.

So why is it that we need some "big name" that may not even fit in, to continue down the path the Spurs have been on?

It's like I always say about people not being satisfied with where they are, they always want to "go" somewhere else. In the same vain, people aren't satisfied unless they land a "big name" player on their team. They can't just be happy with the group they have that are winning and winning and winning.

Human nature is a weird duck.

exstatic

07-04-2007, 07:36 PM

mowgli

07-04-2007, 07:54 PM

exstatic

07-04-2007, 08:15 PM

The best bet next year is some up-and-comer that doesn't have a marquee name and is just waiting to be paired with Duncan so he can break into the top tier. Any suggestions?

As for Artest, I'm all for him being a Spur. Sadly, he is a nut, but his intensity on the court is unquestionable. And in a team-first environment, you never know. He could be our Rodman.
Rodman crashed and burned here because he clashed with the team culture. I would expect the same from Artest. You joke about him being a "nut", but I think he really is crazy, like certifiable.

Kori Ellis

07-04-2007, 08:19 PM

O'Neal & Kidd - hrmmm, sounds like two guys who took THE MONEY. We couldn't - by CBA rules - offer them as much as Indy and NJ. It had nothing to do with them preferring those towns over SA. In fact, since Kidd considered the Spurs very strongly despite the fact that he would have had to play here for a bit of a discount - doesn't that say the exact opposite about players' feelings towards the SAS?

As for Rahim - a) since when was he a top free agent? b) how much did we offer him compared to SAC?

O'Neal stayed in Indiana out of loyalty to the Pacers. Kidd's issue had to do a lot with his wife, and also wanting to stay loyal to NJ.

Anyway ...

What's funny to me is that Spurs fans want all of our own star free agents (Tim, Tony, Manu) to stay in San Antonio and not shop around during free agency. But then if another team's free agent chooses to stay in their home city and not come to S.A., then Spurs fans cry about them being greedy.

T Park

07-04-2007, 08:21 PM

O'Neal stayed in Indiana out of loyalty to the Pacers

and a promise that Isaih Thomas would be the coach :lol

Like what, 3 weeks after the official signing they fire Thomas and hire Carlisle?

Aggie Hoopsfan

07-04-2007, 08:31 PM

So what you are saying is the Spurs should just accept they can't get anyone and just go for the crap guys and hope we can be a .500 team?

We haven't gotten 'crap' guys the last 3 years. We've gotten role players that fit our system. .500? We have two rings in the last three years, dumbass.

The Spurs have a winning organization with a winning attitude, all they need is the cap space and they will get some big name FA. The big difference between what happened from 2k1 - 2k3 is irrelevant today because NBA players now know the San Antonio Spurs are the premier organization in the league and those other organizations that mimic us are also having the same great success, (see Cleveland).

We had won two titles already at the point where we went after Kidd and O'Neal. Kidd didn't want to come because his dike wife didn't like SA. O'Neal wanted to be the alpha dog on his team, which he knew he wouldn't have been playing alongside DUncan.

Fuck, not much has changed since that date other than the Spurs winning two more titles. The same alpha dog personalities still wouldn't come because they would still be playing Robin to Tim Duncan's Batman.

Aggie Hoopsfan

07-04-2007, 08:32 PM

thanks for proving to everyone how stupid you are

stick to the WNBA moron

WNBA? I'm so stupid that Bonner was getting the second most minutes of any big man off the bench (behind Oberto) before he got hurt, and with the demotion of Elson later in the year in favor of Oberto, you can argue that Oberto would have started with Bonner backing him up.

I think you're the candy ass who needs to head over to the WNBA board.

Aggie Hoopsfan

07-04-2007, 08:33 PM

O'Neal stayed in Indiana out of loyalty to the Pacers. Kidd's issue had to do a lot with his wife, and also wanting to stay loyal to NJ.

Anyway ...

What's funny to me is that Spurs fans want all of our own star free agents (Tim, Tony, Manu) to stay in San Antonio and not shop around during free agency. But then if another team's free agent chooses to stay in their home city and not come to S.A., then Spurs fans cry about them being greedy.

She shoots, she scores....

samikeyp

07-04-2007, 08:35 PM

The formula of having three superstars and an effective supporting cast has worked so far. I would love to see a "big name" FA come in but its stupid to make a deal for the sake of making a deal.

AHF said it best......Pop and RC have been pretty successful....I trust them.

justanotherspursfan

07-04-2007, 08:48 PM

We haven't gotten 'crap' guys the last 3 years. We've gotten role players that fit our system.
Finley and Oberto have clearly proven themselves. The jury's still out on last year's class.

As you pointed out, Bonner has shown promise, but his injury prevented him from doing anything more when it counted. Elson's been on the fringe of the rotation, and Butler and White had redshirt years. This will be the season that proves whether any of those guys really is Spurs material.

That's why I'm not all that worried about the Spurs seemingly standing pat this offseason -- there's a whole bunch of guys who we've already invested a year in that we need to give a shot. Throwing those guys away for virtually nothing to bring in more unproven guys seems like a waste. Unless we can really land someone proven like Nocioni without destroying our cap, standing pat looks pretty okay.

A.H 21-50

07-04-2007, 09:59 PM

The spurs will have something like 8 mo $ they can bring someone with that money
not a superstar but a good player who want to play for the title

IMO bonner is'nt a bad player : 2.7 mo $ for him is more than i expected but not too much

clubalien

07-04-2007, 10:17 PM

I don't think we are going to get a superstar in 08. I think winning this season might of changed tim's mind with tony as the MVP. our best chance of getting a superstart is signing hill this season.
allstart finals MVP Tony, Defense all team Bowen,Hill allstart,goldmedal winner, 10 tripe doubles in a season, MVP timmy , and Gold medal oberto(man wish we still had david here but time must go on)

I think that would be a prety good team.

you best chance of a superstart shake up is getting Hill before he is snapped up by others or the rumoured trade of timmy for the #1 draft pick that feel through

wildbill2u

07-04-2007, 10:28 PM

With a superstar like Duncan surrounded by two All-stars like Manu and Parker and a former all-star like Finley and a perrenial defensive All_NBA player like Bowen, why do we need another big name.?

I have faith that the FO will find replacements for Bowen and Finley while the Big 3 are still in their prime.

Marcus Bryant

07-04-2007, 11:28 PM

What about 2015 when Tim Duncan is 39 years old?

RuffnReadyOzStyle

07-04-2007, 11:37 PM

I love how so many people around here know so much more than the front office that put together 4 rings in 9 years... :rolleyes

Vaughn, while not great, was solid as fuck after the first round of the playoffs. His jumper has improved after working with Chip, especially from the corners (I saw them practicing this together back in Jan when I went to practice).

Oberto has shown how beautifully he fits with this system, and what a clutch performer he is.

Bonner is perfect to reduce Horry's reg season minutes and learn from Horry to take over his position at the same time.

We signed V for the vet min, the other 2 for about 3mil/yr each, which is bugger all in the NBA. What's the problem again???

This year's championship was the utter triumph of TEAM over all other factors. We played 9 or 10 guys most of the playoffs and consistently handed the other team's bench their heads. Why? Guys like Oberto, Vaughn and Bonner. We stand pat and we are still a contender EVERY YEAR because we have the best constructed, most flexible and cohesive UNIT in the NBA.

A little more appreciation is deserved methinks.

PS I'm sure the team knows exactly what it will do in 2008 and beyond, and that none of this is getting in the way. We have visionaies in the FO who plan 2-5 years ahead, and I'm sure their plan is intact despite these peripheral signings.