Bulter/Scola/Manhimni/Toros/vets

[lotr1trekkie]

The Spurs purchased the Toros so that the 3 guys who don't suit up nightly will get some real playing time. The want the league to change the rule that only lets them assign a player 3 times a year. I suspect they will assign 2 or 3 players every time they go on an extended roadtrip. I expect Mahimni to be one of those players. Then White and Williams. Guys to replace Horry, Barry and Finley after next season.
I don't really understand some contibutors passion for Butler and Scola next season. Butler has no chance of beating out Elson. From what I've seen he's lumbersome with no vertical lift or shot blocking ability. He doesn't complement Tim like Elson does. As for Scola his value in trades seems to decrease yearly. If he did come here who's minutes would he take at 6'9". Bonner? Pop really like's Bonner' game and will give him increased minutes this season. He's as tall as Butler, more mobile to rebounds and can drill the 3 which is what Pop likes in PF's. Has anyone noticed how Matt bulked up or just got more defined when he was injured. That's what Pop likes. Can't play then work on the parts of your body that need improvement.
If either White and/or Williams pans out as a possible replacements for Bowens/Finley, I suspect that the Spurs will try and package Udrih, Butler and the rights to Scola for a hi draft pick or a young PG[think Portland] who will not mind learning behind Vaughn who learned the Spurs system in record. We really don't need a guy like Duhon who will demand more playing time than Beno got because he's not going to get in barring an injury to Tony. Finally, with Splitter coming in 2008 Butler absolutely has no future here. Tiago is taller, more mobile and has a better inside game than Butler. He also has played Euro ball for 4 years compared to Butler playing at a HS prep school and then with the Knicks[which is about the same thing]. Eventually, Mahimni and Splitter will be seeing major minutes together.

[Kori Ellis]

So, you think both White and Williams make the team?

And you think they'll sign Mahinmi.

I doubt it. No roster room.

[texasqb2]

I keep saying it....I will be shocked if Butler ever plays significant minutes for the Spurs....we have too many better options

[Big P]

The league is going to change the rule about assigning a player only 3 times because the Spurs want them to? Pretty sure that wont happen...the rule might eventually get changed, but its going to take more than the Spurs wanting it to happen.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Lots of ignorant rookies on this thread (Kori excluded obviously).

Still waiting on the Lord of the Rings dork to explain to me how we sign Williams, White, and Ian to two roster spots. That must be some new math.

[lotr1trekkie]

Udrih gets traded to Cleveland or Portland. Butler gets cut or included with Udrih. Either White or Williams is kept but not both. Ely is gone. We now have 3 roster spots for Ian, Williams or White, and a young PG prospect like Koponen from Portland. We can wait on a pg because Manu or Barry can fill in minutes after Tony and Vaughn.
I think Beno is viewed favorably but several other teams that don't play as structured as we do and he would fit in well with his shooting and court sense. If we keep him on the bench next year I believe we lose him and get nothing in return.
As far as the developmental league changing the rules for the Spurs, I think those discussions took place before Holt put up the $$$. Otherwise why buy a team that has little value to you. The Spurs would have simply done what they did last year. I also think a lot of other teams would like that rule changed for the same reason---players on the IL need playing time not time in suits behind the bench cheerleading. Makes sense for most teams. The league changed the rule making all 15 roster players playoff eligible because the other rule was stupid and so is this one.

[lotr1trekkie]

I guess we always have to get some ignoramus who has to get insulting whenever they disagree with someone. I figure the Aggie designation says it all.

Count: Ely gone. Udrih gone. Butler gone{ Cut or traded for picks.]
THREE roster spots. As I wrote in non-aggie English we will only keep White OR Williams not both. Two roster spots. Perhaps Mahimni because he really needs to get NBA type experience at Spurs practice or in Austin. ONE spot. That might go to White/Williams or to Udrih's replacement as 3rd point guard. Just speculating but I think Mahimni's growth would be accelerated here rather then another year in France.
I guess insulting a book that was voted by most top tier, literary journals as " the most influential novel of the 20th century" is beyond intelligent thought. What did that have to do with what I wrote?

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Why would Portland trade for Beno when

1) you have an ex-Spur front office guy in Pritchard who knows enough about Beno to stay away

2) Portland already has Jack, Koponen, and Taurean Green at point (with Rodriguez able to play some minutes there)?

Hypothetically I guess Cleveland could be a trade option, but the supposed deal for the draft didn't go down, so that's looking doubtful.

We cut Butler? :lmao Yeah, the Spurs are going to cut a 22 year old big man with potential just to appease lotr trekkie and bring in Williams and Ian to go with White.

I'm not insulting you because I disagree with you, I'm insulting you because you have to be smoking crack to come up with the personnel moves that you have.

I don't care if it's Aggie English, non-English, or whatever other cute dialect it takes to communicate in your language, you're making an awful lot of assumptions about the activities of a front office not known for the type of moves you're advocating.

And I didn't insult the book (how did we even get on that topic?), I was calling out you (with your user name). :lol

I'll call out anyone who thinks that Portland is going to hand us Koponen for the steaming pile of dog shit that is Beno Udrih, much less think the Spurs can pull off that deal and then would turn around and waive Jackie Butler.

Stick to reading books.

[yavozerb]

Parker/Duhon/Vaughn
Finley/Barry/white
Bowen/Manu/Sanikidze
TD/Horry/Bonner
Oberto/Elson/Mahinmi
- I like the trade of butler/Beno/Scola for Chic. Duhon and future #1 for the reason of getting butlers 2.5 mil off the books for 2008/2009. (I know it doesnt look great but it nets the spurs future pick and saves $ for next off-season)
- With 1 spot still open on the roster I would to maybe even bring in Sankidze.
- My 3 to Austin would be Mahinmi , Sank. and white.

[Big P]

Duhon is not worth Scola/Butler and Beno..the Bulls are an up & coming team & the future first will most likely be in the later part of the first round...that is an absolute horrible deal for the Spurs..to give all that up to rent Duhon for 1 year..no thanks.

[lotr1trekkie]

IMO:
1] The Spurs purchased the Toros to accelerate the development of those players they are counting on to replace Horry, Barry and Finley by 2008. That really doesn't work when you can only send them their 3 times.
2] Beno may suck according to some future NBA GM's but he was as good as what the Cavs showed us in games 3 and 4.
3] I simply think Mahimni will develop faster if he plays here and in Austin.
4] I think the Spurs are looking for a SF who can do what Bruce has done. Play unrelenting D and hit the open 3. Neither White or Williams can do that right now so I think the Spurs will keep the guy who is most committed to playing D first.
5] Pop is a very smart guy who likes smart players. Butler was not smart coming in out of shape on day one. His playing minutes were less than his weight. Will he stay in shape after the summer leagues? He has also not been too impressive in the summer league so far playing against guys who don't even have contracts.
Our top 12 spot are set unless we get an offer we can't refuse[book reference]. I think #'s 13 to 15 will be young players we will need in 2008-2009---not dead end players.

[yavozerb]

Duhon is not worth Scola/Butler and Beno..the Bulls are an up & coming team & the future first will most likely be in the later part of the first round...that is an absolute horrible deal for the Spurs..to give all that up to rent Duhon for 1 year..no thanks.

First off do you really think Butler is going to get much PT with the Spurs? I would glady get ride of his contract for FA signing in 2008..

Secondly, have you heard of anyone wanting to give a 1st rd pick for scola? I havn't so if the bulls give us theirs (I could care less where in the 1st, still better than the second) I would gladly accept!!

Third, Beno vs. Duhon.I will take my chances with duhon for 1 year since the last couple yrs Beno has sucked..

[Big P]

Butler has a TO after this year, so if we want to drop him to sign someone else in 08 we can.

Secondly, if we cant get a DECENT first rounder for him, I would rather Scola stay in Europe & never come to the NBA.

We are talking about the third PG, so I dont think it matters if its Beno or Duhon...unlike Beno, Duhon has documented problems with alcohol & I doubt the Spurs would be stupid enough to give up Scolas rights to get a 3rd string PG with personal problems for 1 year...find a better trade for Scola, Duhon is not it.

[lotr1trekkie]

Bottom line:
Beno, Butler and whomever replaces Ely[White /Williams] will get virtually no playing time again next season[barring injury]. Agreee or Disagree?

Therefore why keep those two useless contracts rather then replace them with players who will be functional in 2008-20009? IMO whomever fills those last three spots should have future value not just playing out the contract string. After the 2008 season Barry, Finley and Horry will be gone and Bruce will be a year older. You really can't bring in 3 or 4 young players in one season the way we play. Two this year and 2 next season. That's the purpose in buying the Toros. They certainly will not be a big money maker of Holt.

[Loose Cannon]

aggy calling someone a dork. I've officially seen it all.

http://www.bevosports.com/images/aggies-squeeze-small.jpg

[MajorMike]

aggy calling someone a dork. I've officially seen it all.


:rollin

[Mr. Body]

aggy calling someone a dork. I've officially seen it all.

http://www.bevosports.com/images/aggies-squeeze-small.jpg

:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :clap

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

aggy calling someone a dork. I've officially seen it all.

http://www.bevosports.com/images/aggies-squeeze-small.jpg

Yeah, because the stereotypical dumbasses in the Corps exemplify us all :rolleyes

[Help A Brother Out]

http://www.bushisantichrist.com/longhorn.jpg

[lotr1trekkie]

I'm thrilled that my last post led to such inspired dialogue and amusing pictures. It led to a greater understanding why Shiites and Sunnis do what they do.
Now about Mahimni: IMO he should take Ely's roster position. Ian will learn more in practice from Horry, Tim & Zab then he ever will in France. In France he is not getting max minutes, they play twice a week and like 50 games a year. Double that in the NBA. Sign him, practice him, send him to Austin when necessary[on long roadtrips] and let Will Severing condition him for the rigors of the NBA. Let Chip improve his shooting.From the footage I've seen of him he exhibits the same kind of athleticism that Robinson displayed at the Naval Academy. He runs like a gazelle and has quick feet down low & has a quick vertical leap. If kept could be NBA ready by late next season or certainly by 2008-2009. Finally, he also needs time to assimilate into our culture. If we don't do it now he may very well become the next Luis Scola--like waiting for Godot!

[Darkwaters]

I think that Marcus Williams is a bigger priority than Mahinmi for this season as far as that last roster spot goes. Mahinmi plays a position that looks to be filled for the time being. With Duncan, Oberto, Bonner and Butler all under contract for at least 2 more seasons (and a much more NBA ready Tiago Splitter waiting in the wings) Mahinmi isn't as high of a priority now. On the other hand, Finley, Barry, Bowen and White could all walk next season leaving us with, essentially, no wings. A player like Williams might be able to step in, learn the system, and play a role next year out of necessity. Also, while Mahinmi can be stashed overseas, Williams will likely not take kindly to the notion and result in us forfeiting his rights if we don't sign him. If we had 16 rosters spots, Mahinmi would instantly be here. But without a trade or a cut I think the priority goes to Williams.

[FromWayDowntown]

I think a lot of fans overestimate what a player "learns" in practice.

[peewee's lovechild]

I think that Marcus Williams is a bigger priority than Mahinmi for this season as far as that last roster spot goes. Mahinmi plays a position that looks to be filled for the time being. With Duncan, Oberto, Bonner and Butler all under contract for at least 2 more seasons (and a much more NBA ready Tiago Splitter waiting in the wings) Mahinmi isn't as high of a priority now. On the other hand, Finley, Barry, Bowen and White could all walk next season leaving us with, essentially, no wings. A player like Williams might be able to step in, learn the system, and play a role next year out of necessity. Also, while Mahinmi can be stashed overseas, Williams will likely not take kindly to the notion and result in us forfeiting his rights if we don't sign him. If we had 16 rosters spots, Mahinmi would instantly be here. But without a trade or a cut I think the priority goes to Williams.

I completely and totally agree.

[BacktoBasics]

This guy has done alsolutely nothing against second and third rate competition.

[lotr1trekkie]

Let's assume Darkwaters is correct and we send Ian back and sign Williams to a roster spot. How many games will he play in--a handful at garbage time? And if Waydowntown is correct how will Williams improve enough to earn playing time? Draft night analysis stated that Williams was a natural scorer, poor defensively, not a 3point shooter at all and had some maturity issues. Seems like he would get even less time than White did who was 24 when we signed him and played 4 years college. Do you think we keep both White and Williams?
With the top 12 all returning I can't see much playing time for #'s 13-15. Would you agree?

[mountainballer]

I think a lot of fans overestimate what a player "learns" in practice.

word.

Ian is so far away from being NBA ready, on a scale from 1 to 10 it would be a 0.
bringing him over right now is wasting a spot and some money.
(as mentioned, this spot will be Splitters next year, who will provide some impact from the beginning)
some practise and some D league games won't help that much.
playing for a good European team (and for the French team) will give him much more chance to improve, but he will have to do it for maybe another 3 years.
Splitter will be 23 when he comes, Ian will turn 21 in some months. so it's not a problem to wait.

[Darkwaters]

Draft night analysis stated that Williams was a natural scorer, poor defensively, not a 3point shooter at all and had some maturity issues.

By that I sure hope you don't mean Steven A. Smith.

And in regards to the "poor defensively" and "not a 3 point shooter" comments let me ask you this, have you ever seen a perfect prospect? Have you ever seen a player that didn't have objections about them? Kevin Durant isn't strong enough. Greg Oden has an underdeveloped offensive game. But they're not getting cut because they're not perfect. The fact is that with a 20 year old kid you can work some of these problems out of them. It's called "player development".


How many games will he play in--a handful at garbage time?

He'll probably spend a large amount of time in Austin and only play big minutes at the end of the season, like Butler and White did this year, when we don't care about W's anymore. Hes glued to the inactive list so long as injuries don't plague us.


And if Waydowntown is correct how will Williams improve enough to earn playing time?

By the 08-09 season, who knows? But the only risk we're taking is losing a roster spot to an ineffective player but we pose to gain quite a bit if he comes through. Besides, the money is hardly an issue for a 2nd rounder and he can be dropped after one season if he flops. You act like every player that comes into the NBA is ready to contribute and the fact that Williams isn't makes him undesirable. The fact is that most teams have a couple of projects that they're tinkering with on their roster at any given time. Ours last year were Butler and White.


With the top 12 all returning I can't see much playing time for #'s 13-15. Would you agree?

I see zero time for players 13-15. It's hard to get minutes when you're inactive and therefore inelligible to play.

[Mr. Body]

Marcus Williams has Ely's spot.

[ploto]

If we don't do it now he may very well become the next Luis Scola
Now this is funny- when he has done half of what Scola has done, get back to me.

[sandman]

http://www.bushisantichrist.com/longhorn.jpg

That is not the Hook Em Horns hand salute. :rolleyes

[Bruno]

Mahinmi going back in europe is far from sure. We're on july 9th and I haven't seen a single rumor linking Mahinmi with an european team. We can asume that Spurs still haven't said to him that they haven't a roster spot for him next year.

Spurs should consider him to be their 6th bigman. The 6th bigman spot is for the moment Butler and the fact that he hasn't been really good in SL so far doesn't help him. Spurs trading Butler to create a roster spot for Mahinmi isn't that unlikely.

[Spurs Brazil]

Mahinmi going back in europe is far from sure. We're on july 9th and I haven't seen a single rumor linking Mahinmi with an european team. We can asume that Spurs still haven't said to him that they haven't a roster spot for him next year.

Spurs should consider him to be their 6th bigman. The 6th bigman spot is for the moment Butler and the fact that he hasn't been really good in SL so far doesn't help him. Spurs trading Butler to create a roster spot for Mahinmi isn't that unlikely.

I think his injury killed any chance to come to San Antonio now. He'll wait one more year

[tmtcsc]

Ian is a borderline waste right now. That's how underdeveloped he is skills wise. He needs to gain weight, stop fouling everything that comes near him and just get better. He would be eaten alive right now if he came to the NBA. Hell, he'd get beat up in college.

[Bruno]

I think his injury killed any chance to come to San Antonio now. He'll wait one more year

You can think that if you want but there isn't so far a single fact pointing to Mahinmi back in europe.

[Spurs Brazil]

You can think that if you want but there isn't so far a single fact pointing to Mahinmi back in europe.


That's true

Does he still have contract in France?

[Bruno]

That's true

Does he still have contract in France?

He is still maybe under contract with Pau (depending on how his contract is made) but he won't play with them next year : he said to them that he wouldn't be back with them next year and they have signed players who take his roster spot.

[Spurs Brazil]

He is still maybe under contract with Pau (depending on how his contract is made) but he won't play with them next year : he said to them that he wouldn't be back with them next year and they have signed players who take his roster spot.

I know this is off topic but do you think Victor can play for a good europe team next season?

[Solid D]

Thusfar, Ian's foot speed has translated into him catching up to players faster so that he can foul them sooner.

:smokin

[Bruno]

I know this is off topic but do you think Victor can play for a good europe team next season?

He signed a two years contract with a spanish team last summer. If he is back with them next year, he could get more playtime with them (spanish verison of the Stephen Jackson plan).

[Spurs Brazil]

He signed a two years contract with a spanish team last summer. If he is back with them next year, he could get more playtime with them (spanish verison of the Stephen Jackson plan).

Thanks

[Darkwaters]

He signed a two years contract with a spanish team last summer. If he is back with them next year, he could get more playtime with them (spanish verison of the Stephen Jackson plan).
Estudiantes, right?

How high of a level of competition does Estudiantes play at?

[Bruno]

Estudiantes, right?

How high of a level of competition does Estudiantes play at?

Estudiantes plays the spanish league (acb) : it's the best domestic league in europe.

[Darkwaters]

Estudiantes plays the spanish league (acb) : it's the best domestic league in europe.

Do they play the Euroleague this next year?

[Bruno]

Do they play the Euroleague this next year?

No. They won't too play the ULEB cup (second best european competition).

Even if it's a domestic competition, the ACB level is very high. Euroleague level is higher but the ACB level is higher than the ULEB level.

[lotr1trekkie]

I recently read somewhere in a Euro publication that Mahamni did not expect to resign in Europe next season. Maybe his injury changes that. Either way I don't understand the orgasmic joy over Butler glued to the bench for another year and then being replaced by Splitter next season. At 23 Spiltter may also need a year of tutoring to play our style.When we drafted Ginobile most people gasped at the choice. That pick was made about intangibles in his game. I suspect Mahimni was chosen by the same people for the same reasons. If Mahimni is a 0 for next year then Butler is Antarctic subzero.

[wildbill2u]

Professional coaches and scouts and FO people are paid thousands and sometimes millions of dollars to make these decisions.

Our team's professionals have made more right decisions than wrong ones and so we'v wound up with 4 Championships. Some of these guys are getting a chance to show what they can do in Summer League and aren't doing so hot.

If they leave Javtokas or Mahimimi or Sanizwhatever in Europe then I trust they are making informed decisions.

[jaespur21]

The league is going to change the rule about assigning a player only 3 times because the Spurs want them to? Pretty sure that wont happen...the rule might eventually get changed, but its going to take more than the Spurs wanting it to happen.

Im sure the Lakers are asking for a change in the rule as well, due to the fact that they also own a DLeague team. hopefully this rule does get changed in our favor