Ron Paul

[Soul_Patch]

From a little blurb i heard on NPR about this guy, i am thuroughly impressed. Could some of you more politically aware people speak about this guy, and what he brings to the table.


I am alway sort of in the middle when it comes to being left or right, but this guy seems to hit the strings i like. Wondering if i just dont know the whole story on him, or is he the real deal?

[Yonivore]

From a little blurb i heard on NPR about this guy, i am thuroughly impressed. Could some of you more politically aware people speak about this guy, and what he brings to the table.


I am alway sort of in the middle when it comes to being left or right, but this guy seems to hit the strings i like. Wondering if i just dont know the whole story on him, or is he the real deal?
He talks a good game and, like you, I used to be impressed with his apparent lack of hypocrisy on his stated positions -- even when I disagreed with him. However, as we found out last week -- he's like the rest of 'em.

Ron Paul likes earmarks.

[Extra Stout]

Yeah, he requests earmarks for the spending bills, then votes against them. :lol That way, when the bills pass anyway, his district gets its share of pork, but he gets to look "principled."

I especially enjoyed John Culberson's defense of earmarks, saying it was the only way to ensure that "elected representatives" could direct federal dollars, rather than "unelected bureaucrats." Culberson might as well be a Depression-era Dixiecrat.

Most Southern Republicans might as well be Dixiecrats. They've completely trashed the party.

[Soul_Patch]

im sooo disinterested in the big front runners though. i am so sick of mainstream politics lately, i honestly don't think anyone will bring anything of substance to the table.


This guy was my beacon of hope...ill have to pay closer attention.

[Extra Stout]

im sooo disinterested in the big front runners though. i am so sick of mainstream politics lately, i honestly don't think anyone will bring anything of substance to the table.


This guy was my beacon of hope...ill have to pay closer attention.
There never has been a "pure" candidate in any election, and this one will be no different.

[Soul_Patch]

I have a very hard time usually standing with a candidate. Mostly because i really dispise a lot of the basic fundamentals of both parties.

I really REALLY have a hard time backing a republican candidate at all mostly because of so many of the "christian coalition" type ties they hold. Regardless of how their issues may resonate with me, i cannot back a fundamentalist group of any religion, and i feel a republican vote is just that.


democrats are a whole other set of short comings, but i can overlook a lot of them i guess, since most dont try to instute their set of morals on me.

i think Ron Paul was / is a good mix of what i am looking for.

[Spurminator]

You may want to know that Ron Paul is a staunch pro-lifer (http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=h109-776), and he opposes Gay Marriage (though he also opposed the Federal Marriage Amendment which would have defined marriage as between a man and a woman).

From what I can tell, Ron Paul is every bit as religious, if not more, than George W. Bush. And he's the choice of a lot of the Fundamentalist fringe like Gary North (http://www.lewrockwell.com/north/north538.html).

[Soul_Patch]

Well see i dont mind so much an individuals views on things like abortion or gay marriage (both of which i approve of)

I just dont want someone feeling like they need to enforce their views on the masses, as if we need saving or something.


I believe people are smart enough to make their own damn decisions, and its no place for government to make moral decisions for me or anyone else.

[braeden0613]

Yeah, he requests earmarks for the spending bills, then votes against them. :lol That way, when the bills pass anyway, his district gets its share of pork, but he gets to look "principled."

I especially enjoyed John Culberson's defense of earmarks, saying it was the only way to ensure that "elected representatives" could direct federal dollars, rather than "unelected bureaucrats." Culberson might as well be a Depression-era Dixiecrat.

Most Southern Republicans might as well be Dixiecrats. They've completely trashed the party.
He does that because he figures if the money is going to go somewhere, it might as well be his district. Ron Paul is the only constitutionalist in the race, and the only one opposed to big government and globalism. That alone will get my vote.

[Yonivore]

He does that because he figures if the money is going to go somewhere, it might as well be his district.
That works until you realize Ron Paul is always preaching that he stands on principle.


Ron Paul is the only constitutionalist in the race, and the only one opposed to big government and globalism. That alone will get my vote.
If he were that committed, he'd be a Libertarian.

[braeden0613]

That works until you realize Ron Paul is always preaching that he stands on principle.


If he were that committed, he'd be a Libertarian.
How is that not standing on principle?? You've got corruption at an all-time high in the Republican party, and you're trying to find anything wrong with the only true conservative in the race. Neoconservatives will never make any since to me.

He ran for president as a Lib in 1988. He actually wanted a chance to win this time.

Im gonna go ahead and put this in for good measure:
Ron Paul is a constitutionalist.

Ron has never voted to raise taxes.
Ron has never voted for an unbalanced budget.
Ron has never voted for the Iraq War.
Ron has never voted for a federal restriction on gun ownership.
Ron has never voted to increase the power of the executive branch.
Ron has never voted to raise congressional pay.
Ron has never taken a government-paid junket.

Ron voted against the Patriot Act.
Ron votes against regulating the Internet.
Ron voted against NAFTA and CAFTA.
Ron votes against the United Nations.
Ron votes against the welfare state.
Ron votes against reinstating a military draft.

Ron votes to preserve the constitution.
Ron votes to cut government spending.
Ron votes to lower healthcare costs.
Ron votes to end the war on drugs.
Ron votes to protect civil liberties.
Ron votes to secure our borders with real immigration reform.
Ron votes to eliminate tax funded abortions and to overturn Roe v Wade.
Ron votes to protect religious freedom.

[braeden0613]

As far as practicing what you preach, as a doctor he never took Medicare or Medicaid, never took his congressional pension, and would not allow his kids to take financial aid for college. Is that standing on principle, yoni?

[Soul_Patch]

Ron has never voted to raise taxes.
Ron has never voted for an unbalanced budget.
Ron has never voted for the Iraq War.
Ron has never voted for a federal restriction on gun ownership.
Ron has never voted to increase the power of the executive branch.
Ron has never voted to raise congressional pay.
Ron has never taken a government-paid junket.

Ron voted against the Patriot Act.
Ron votes against regulating the Internet.
Ron voted against NAFTA and CAFTA.
Ron votes against the United Nations.
Ron votes against the welfare state.
Ron votes against reinstating a military draft.

Ron votes to preserve the constitution.
Ron votes to cut government spending.
Ron votes to lower healthcare costs.
Ron votes to end the war on drugs.
Ron votes to protect civil liberties.
Ron votes to secure our borders with real immigration reform.
Ron votes to eliminate tax funded abortions and to overturn Roe v Wade.
Ron votes to protect religious freedom.


all of which are reasons i find this guy appealing.

[xrayzebra]

I have a very hard time usually standing with a candidate. Mostly because i really dispise a lot of the basic fundamentals of both parties.

I really REALLY have a hard time backing a republican candidate at all mostly because of so many of the "christian coalition" type ties they hold. Regardless of how their issues may resonate with me, i cannot back a fundamentalist group of any religion, and i feel a republican vote is just that.


democrats are a whole other set of short comings, but i can overlook a lot of them i guess, since most dont try to instute their set of morals on me.

i think Ron Paul was / is a good mix of what i am looking for.


What is it about you I don't trust? You sound more
like a troll than a poster. :stirpot: :stirpot:

[Soul_Patch]

What is it about you I don't trust? You sound more
like a troll than a poster. :stirpot: :stirpot:



lol...k :oops

[Extra Stout]

From what I can tell, Ron Paul is every bit as religious, if not more, than George W. Bush. And he's the choice of a lot of the Fundamentalist fringe like Gary North (http://www.lewrockwell.com/north/north538.html).
Ron Paul is religious, but his views on the relationship between church and state differ markedly from the views of the Republican mainstream, and also from those of Gary North, no matter how much North appears to admire him.

North does have a point, I think, when he says that the groundswell of support behind Paul marks the beginning of a migration away from big-government "conservatism" and neo-conservative empire-building to a less intrusive and less interventionist form of conservatism, and that it will take a few decades for that migration to come to fruition.

[Soul_Patch]

North does have a point, I think, when he says that the groundswell of support behind Paul marks the beginning of a migration away from big-government "conservatism" and neo-conservative empire-building to a less intrusive and less interventionist form of conservatism, and that it will take a few decades for that migration to come to fruition.


if this is true, and i hope it is, i think i may finally find a party i can stand behind.

[braeden0613]

Here is the link to ron paul's youtube page...you will find alot of good videos there if you are interested.
http://youtube.com/profile?user=RonPaul2008dotcom

[BradLohaus]

He does that because he figures if the money is going to go somewhere, it might as well be his district. Ron Paul is the only constitutionalist in the race, and the only one opposed to big government and globalism. That alone will get my vote.

Exactly. Okay, everybody knows about Ron Paul refusing all these government handouts, but that is his personal decision. The people in his district pay federal income taxes don't they? What right does he have to deny them some of their own money back in the form of federal spending? It would be selfish of him to impose his own beliefs on people in these situations. He fights the bills but if they pass he has to put his own beliefs aside and try to get some of his constituents' money back. Otherwise, as a member of the federal government, he would be stealing from them.

I can't believe anyone would see this as a knock against the man's character. I'm against social security, bet you better believe I will cash my checks when they start coming in. When someone takes something from me and then offers to give it back I'm not going to turn them down. I would want my congressman to try to get rid of SS, but if he can't, how is it noble of him to tell me I can't have my check? This is a weak argument against Ron Paul. I would like to know a how he could handle these situations better. I honestly can't think of a way that he could.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

That works until you realize Ron Paul is always preaching that he stands on principle.


If he were that committed, he'd be a Libertarian.



Your stupidity is only surpassed by the smallness of your chode.

The funds are going to be released, might as well use them if he's getting them.....furthermore he's flat out said over and over again its absolutely impossible for any 3rd party candidate to be taken seriously in a presidential election unless you're ross perot.

[Ocotillo]

Ron Paul: 'Nuff said......... (http://www.crooksandliars.com/2007/07/08/open-thread-525/)

This is at least his second run at President. He ran as a Libertarian, that rare creature the conservatives embrace when conservative Republican policies fail as they always do..........

All of a sudden the "movement conservatives" are saying Bush is not really a conservative. They were strangely silent about that opinion prior to him becoming the most unpopular President in any of our lifetimes.

[Nbadan]

This is at least his second run at President. He ran as a Libertarian, that rare creature the conservatives embrace when conservative Republican policies fail as they always do..........

Brilliant. Conservative policies have never, ever worked.

[Extra Stout]

Ron Paul: 'Nuff said......... (http://www.crooksandliars.com/2007/07/08/open-thread-525/)

This is at least his second run at President. He ran as a Libertarian, that rare creature the conservatives embrace when conservative Republican policies fail as they always do..........

All of a sudden the "movement conservatives" are saying Bush is not really a conservative. They were strangely silent about that opinion prior to him becoming the most unpopular President in any of our lifetimes.
Depends upon which part of the "movement" you are talking about. The "paleo-cons" jumped off his bandwagon four years ago.

[PixelPusher]

Who died and annointed Yonivore the last word on what makes someone a Libertarian? Yoni loves unfettered Executive authority way too much to be tut-tuting other people's Libertarian views.

[possessed]

How is that not standing on principle?? You've got corruption at an all-time high in the Republican party, and you're trying to find anything wrong with the only true conservative in the race. Neoconservatives will never make any since to me.

He ran for president as a Lib in 1988. He actually wanted a chance to win this time.

Im gonna go ahead and put this in for good measure:
Ron Paul is a constitutionalist.

Ron has never voted to raise taxes.
Ron has never voted for an unbalanced budget.
Ron has never voted for the Iraq War.
Ron has never voted for a federal restriction on gun ownership.
Ron has never voted to increase the power of the executive branch.
Ron has never voted to raise congressional pay.
Ron has never taken a government-paid junket.

Ron voted against the Patriot Act.
Ron votes against regulating the Internet.
Ron voted against NAFTA and CAFTA.
Ron votes against the United Nations.
Ron votes against the welfare state.
Ron votes against reinstating a military draft.

Ron votes to preserve the constitution.
Ron votes to cut government spending.
Ron votes to lower healthcare costs.
Ron votes to end the war on drugs.
Ron votes to protect civil liberties.
Ron votes to secure our borders with real immigration reform.
Ron votes to eliminate tax funded abortions and to overturn Roe v Wade.
Ron votes to protect religious freedom.
Oh damn. This is my guy.

[Wild Cobra]

From the one time I heard him speak for sometime with others, I liked everything he had to say except his views on the Military and Iraq. I missed how he felt about border enforcement.

Consideing that besides the president being the executor of law, his other most promenent job is "Commander in Chief," I cannot support or vote for him. A Commander in Chief must respect the military in full.

[PixelPusher]

Consideing that besides the president being the executor of law, his other most promenent job is "Commander in Chief," I cannot support or vote for him. A Commander in Chief must respect the military in full.
Running our military into the ground is a piss-poor way of showing respect for our military.

...not to mention the Walter Reed Scandal, condensing memorial services to "one a month" at Fort Lewis, Rummy's infamous "You fight with the Army you have" retort to the serviceman who asked about armour...

...and the most telling of all,

White House opposes military pay raises (http://rawstory.com/news/2007/White_House_opposes_military_pay_raise_0517.html)

[BradLohaus]

From the one time I heard him speak for sometime with others, I liked everything he had to say except his views on the Military and Iraq. I missed how he felt about border enforcement.

Consideing that besides the president being the executor of law, his other most promenent job is "Commander in Chief," I cannot support or vote for him. A Commander in Chief must respect the military in full.

He is very strong on border enforcement. As for the rest...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ron_Paul#Military_service

"Paul's medical training was interrupted when he was drafted during the Vietnam War into the United States Air Force.[9] He served as a flight surgeon at Kelly Air Force Base in San Antonio, Texas from 1963 to 1965. He then served in the Air National Guard from 1965 to 1968 while completing his medical residency in Pittsburgh."

Ron Paul's take on foreign policy can be summarized with George Washington's warning against getting involved in foreign entanglements.

Washington said, “The great rule of conduct for us in regard to foreign nations is, in extending our commercial relations, to have with them as little political connection as possible.”

Washington certainly respected the military in full, and so does Ron Paul.

[Wild Cobra]

Running our military into the ground is a piss-poor way of showing respect for our military.

Can you justify that?


...not to mention the Walter Reed Scandal,
One off campus location is not a scandal.

condensing memorial services to "one a month" at Fort Lewis,
I'm not aware of that one. Fill me in please.

Rummy's infamous "You fight with the Army you have" retort to the serviceman who asked about armour...

Simple factual statement. So?


...and the most telling of all,

White House opposes military pay raises (http://rawstory.com/news/2007/White_House_opposes_military_pay_raise_0517.html)
I would have to see the current pay scales. I tend to agree with president Bush on this, but I could be wrong. Besides, he does want a 3% raise, just not a 3-1/2% raise. That 1/2% really adds up.

When I left the Army in 1992, my pay was the equivalent to just over $18.00 per hour. I didn't make that much but I was only taxed on my base pay. Add clothing allowance, COLA, food allowance, housing allowance, and a few others, and I was paid pretty good.

I would have had to make $18.00+ per hour just to have the same net income after taxes!

Anyone who has the charts or wishes to look them up, E-5 11 years. I made E-5 in 4 years but as a 29V, someone had to die or retire for opening an E-6 slot. I had a great job in the Army.

[Wild Cobra]

One more thing. If you actually read the Army Times story, the pay is not a reason threatened for a veto. However, if the two privisions that may lead to a veto happen, that is how the news will report it:

"President vetos military pay increase"

I would suggest provisions are in the bill just to get a veto, and make him look bad!

[Soul_Patch]

Well...in GW's defense...and i really dont like GW....Military Officers make damn good money.


There was a Major i worked with at Randolph (he recently retired) but he was making a tad over 75k a year. And, although he was a good guy, he was worthless as a worker.

One of my best friends is a recently Promoted E3 and makes close to 40k a year. an E3! whoa..i always thought enlisted military guys were broke....