Mavs Bench - are we kidding ourselves?

[monosylab1k]

Amid all the Devean George re-sign news, I keep hearing the same thing over and over "George returns to a very solid (or deep) Dallas bench" and I've gotta wonder just what the fuck everyone is smoking if they think we have a "deep" or "solid" bench in any way, shape, or form.

This bench was so godawful during the majority of the regular season and in the playoffs that I see no way people can say we are a "deep" team. We have 6 good players (Harris, Terry, Howard, Dirk, Diop, Stack) and a gaggle of spares. I'd compare our depth to that of the Suns, meaning we have none.

Stack is a solid 6th man, so I'm not gonna get into his bench contributions. He's a good. The rest of the bench is the problem.

This bench WAS solid back when we had legitimate scoring options like Daniels and Van Horn, along with true defensive stoppers (Griffin) and strong veteran leadership (Armstrong).

Instead we have an overrated defender who bricks everything he throws up there (George), an even more overrated defender who bricks everything he throws up there that we signed to a multi-year deal (Buckner), The Vagina That Wears 25, Austin Combover (probably gone though), and a gaggle of rookies and 2nd year players that Avery isn't gonna play anyways.

Where is this bench strength we keep getting sold to us?

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

I never looked at it that way before. But then again, I've never looked into the Mavs with that much detail.

[sribb43]

and if the Mavs sign a guy like PJ Brown, the bench will be even weaker on the offensive end. Even FA that are out there wont provide much offense off the bench, ie Posey. Maybe a guy like Matt Barnes, Mo Pete would provide offense off the bench. But after resigning Stack and George, I dont see why the Mavs would target a SG/SF now . I dont want anyone to say Zeke, Ager, R. Terry, Barea; those guys are unproven and shouldnt be considered rotation guys

[Ken Loomis]

Mavs are fine. That bench is great. Pops Mensah-Bonsu and Juan Jose Barea are young studs with serious potential. Barea is a poor mans Nash/Boykins while Pops was the MVP of the NBDL if I am not mistaken. Backup pg/pf along with inside issues solved. Plus Pops can be the answer to our low post problems if he keeps getting better and better. Add in a tough vet like George and Stack and we are fine on the wings for the bench. Still have Diop along with Ager. Hell Buckner comes in and gives hustle, 3 point shooting, and solid defense. The Mavs can just stand pat. Use more of Ager,Barea, and Pops and the Mavs offseason comes to an end in terms of needs to win a title.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Who are you guys referring to when you say "Zeke"?

[j-6]

Who are you guys referring to when you say "Zeke"?

Nick Fazekas.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Oh.

[monosylab1k]

Who are you guys referring to when you say "Zeke"?

Nick Fazekas, this season's "Honorary Big Slow White Guy Who Shoots From The Perimeter To Back Up Dirk". He'll be looking to do at least as good a job as Croshere did for us, which means putting in a solid 4 points a game or so on offense and letting opponents go flying by him uncontested on defense.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

I don't know much about Pops or Ager, but I saw a special of Barea a couple days ago. And I kept thinking to myself Dallas got a major steal with this guy. This guy was on fire and can dish out really nicely. I think they said he averaged 27.8 ppg and 7.6 apg in the D-League. No doubt in my mind he can already be a starter for some teams in the NBA.

[stretch]

I don't know much about Pops or Ager, but I saw a special of Barea a couple days ago. And I kept thinking to myself Dallas got a major steal with this guy. This guy was on fire and can dish out really nicely. I think they said he averaged 27.8 ppg and 7.6 apg in the D-League. No doubt in my mind he can already be a starter for some teams in the NBA.
yea, Barea is a pretty talented player actually. he just needs more time to learn the NBA game. but when he gets more playing time, he has the potential to be a pretty solid NBA PG.

[sribb43]

Barea could be a solid back-up, Ager could help, Pops is an athlete, but thats about it. To say anything more than this about these guys if homerism. I like Barea but to say he is a poor mans Nash is far fetched. By the way Im still looking to see Buckners 3pt shooting that everyone has been talking about the past year. Offensively the Mavs bench is weak, if Stack is off which is highly possible, they will struggle to score points.

[sribb43]

Nick Fazekas, this season's "Honorary Big Slow White Guy Who Shoots From The Perimeter To Back Up Dirk". He'll be looking to do at least as good a job as Croshere did for us, which means putting in a solid 4 points a game or so on offense and letting opponents go flying by him uncontested on defense.
Zeke is slower than Big Z of the Cavs, if you can believe that. He makes Big Z look like a gazzle

[stretch]

Barea could be a solid back-up, Ager could help, Pops is an athlete, but thats about it. To say anything more than this about these guys if homerism. I like Barea but to say he is a poor mans Nash is far fetched. By the way Im still looking to see Buckners 3pt shooting that everyone has been talking about the past year. Offensively the Mavs bench is weak, if Stack is off which is highly possible, they will struggle to score points.
I'm not saying Barea is going to be great, or a starter or anything. But in terms of basketball ability and talent, hes a pretty good talent, especially for someone undrafted.

[Nashfan]

I'm not saying Barea is going to be great, or a starter or anything. But in terms of basketball ability and talent, hes a pretty good talent, especially for someone undrafted.

I was impressed with Barea's court vision in the one game I saw him play in.

[Holmes_Fans]

I think with how young the bench is, you will see alot more of them during the regular season. Guys like Barea, pops and ager need to get 10-15 minutes a night. We bring in all these young guys who are tremendous athletes, but they never get to play.

I have no idea why we didn't resign Adrian Griffin, he was one of the main reasons we beat SA last year. He was one of the biggest hustlers on the court.

[mavs>spurs2]

I have no idea why we didn't resign Adrian Griffin, he was one of the main reasons we beat SA last year. He was one of the biggest hustlers on the court.

We thought we signed a similar player in Buckner, but he never really worked out for us.

[leemajors]

I have no idea why we didn't resign Adrian Griffin, he was one of the main reasons we beat SA last year. He was one of the biggest hustlers on the court.
elaborate?

[Findog]

elaborate?

Yeah, that's what I was thinking...he started Game 1, we lost, Devin was inserted into the lineup in Game Two and Griffin got mop-up minutes after that.

Griffin was a key role player during the regular season, one of those guys who does things that don't show up in the box score, but that's as far as it goes.

[Findog]

We thought we signed a similar player in Buckner, but he never really worked out for us.

It especially blows considering he doesn't get off the bench for Chicago.

[monosylab1k]

Griffin was a key role player during the regular season, one of those guys who does things that don't show up in the box score, but that's as far as it goes.

that's still alot more than what Buckner gave us.

[mavs>spurs2]

I always liked Buckner his first run as a Mav but damn he sure sucked this past season.

[monosylab1k]

I like some things about Barea, but I'd rather see Harris get big-time PG minutes than see what Barea has (at least for this upcoming season). Although giving Terry zero minutes at PG and giving whatever backup-PG minutes are leftover to Barea might be nice.

I'd really like to see Ager get 15-20 minutes a game. I really think this kid has got something, but he was never allowed to make a mistake by Avery last season. It would be great to see him get all the minutes Buckner usually gets, and just throw Buckner in the D-League where he belongs.

As far as Pops goes, his athleticism amazes me but i've become convinced that he's never going to be a meaningful contributor. I've seen all the Summer League games so far and I don't think I've ever seen a player who is more careless with a basketball than Pops. It's pretty cringeworthy to see him get contantly stripped by guys who are gonna be bag boys at HEB come fall time.

[mavs>spurs2]

I like some things about Barea, but I'd rather see Harris get big-time PG minutes than see what Barea has (at least for this upcoming season). Although giving Terry zero minutes at PG and giving whatever backup-PG minutes are leftover to Barea might be nice.

I'd really like to see Ager get 15-20 minutes a game. I really think this kid has got something, but he was never allowed to make a mistake by Avery last season. It would be great to see him get all the minutes Buckner usually gets, and just throw Buckner in the D-League where he belongs.

As far as Pops goes, his athleticism amazes me but i've become convinced that he's never going to be a meaningful contributor. I've seen all the Summer League games so far and I don't think I've ever seen a player who is more careless with a basketball than Pops. It's pretty cringeworthy to see him get contantly stripped by guys who are gonna be bag boys at HEB come fall time.


Only problem with this is that Terry is too small to guard big point guards, much less long athletic shooting guards. So if Terry doesn't play point then when we play teams with a big shooting guard we would have to completely bench our 3rd best player.

[Findog]

that's still alot more than what Buckner gave us.

Not disagreeing...he couldn't guard Wade, but then again, Buckner couldn't guard Davis or Richardson.

[confined]

I like what i've seen so far out of Rayshawn Terry and Barea...Ager still needs a little work and Zeke just plain sucks...if everyone thinks Dirk's defense is bad you should check this guy out

[SenorSpur]

Mavs are fine. That bench is great. Pops Mensah-Bonsu and Juan Jose Barea are young studs with serious potential. Barea is a poor mans Nash/Boykins while Pops was the MVP of the NBDL if I am not mistaken. Backup pg/pf along with inside issues solved. Plus Pops can be the answer to our low post problems if he keeps getting better and better. Add in a tough vet like George and Stack and we are fine on the wings for the bench. Still have Diop along with Ager. Hell Buckner comes in and gives hustle, 3 point shooting, and solid defense. The Mavs can just stand pat. Use more of Ager,Barea, and Pops and the Mavs offseason comes to an end in terms of needs to win a title.

If you really believe that, then - like the title of this thread - you really ARE kidding yourself.

[Ken Loomis]

If you really believe that, then - like the title of this thread - you really ARE kidding yourself.

I REALLY believe Barea and Pops will be studs for this team. This team is flat out loaded. They just burnt themselves out during the regular season, but they will learn like all great teams tend to do. The Mavs literally don't have to do anything. All the Mavs need is for Avery to involve Barea, Pops and Ager as part of the rotation then call it a Summer.

[SenorSpur]

I REALLY believe Barea and Pops will be studs for this team. This team is flat out loaded. They just burnt themselves out during the regular season, but they will learn like all great teams tend to do. The Mavs literally don't have to do anything. All the Mavs need is for Avery to involve Barea, Pops and Ager as part of the rotation then call it a Summer.

Would you like to see the Mavs add a big like, say P.J. Brown?

[Ken Loomis]

Would you like to see the Mavs add a big like, say P.J. Brown?

If he can be had for the minimum why not? :drunk :drunk

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

I don't know about Pops but Barea should definitely be put in the rotation next season.

[mardigan]

Pops has looked great in summer league so far, kid has all kinds of game. And Barea has looked like a better point guard prospect than Harris

[Cry Havoc]

The problem I see with the Mavs bench isn't the depth, it's how the pieces fit.

Devin Harris might be fine as a backup to someone like Billups or Deron Williams, but with Terry, the Mavs have no one to play hard defense against a great PG without help. If Terry was a great defender, the flop-D style of Harris would be a perfect compliment. As it is, the PG position is more than a bit of a concern for Mavs. The PG who can shoot and isn't afraid to step up, plays decent D, or the PG who flops as his only defensive ability, has a questionable outside shot, and no size to match up with anyone out West? Barea might solve this issue, but until I see tangible results, that's a huge question mark. The Mavs cannot win a title with a "?" at the point.

More later, as I intend to break down every reserve, but... I gotta get back to work.

[ATRAIN]

maybe you should suit him up for off the bench playhttp://markramsey.com/wp-content/dirkcuban.jpg

[StylisticS]

Pops has looked great in summer league so far, kid has all kinds of game. And Barea has looked like a better point guard prospect than Harris

Eh....Devin looked the same way a couple years ago in the summer league. That said, Barea has looked great out there. I hope Pops is on the team next year. He can be a solid player off the bench for us. Very athletic and grabs rebounds like a man. The player I'm kind of disappointed in is Ager. He looks off and on and shows little consistency. He really needs a ton of work.

[mardigan]

Eh....Devin looked the same way a couple years ago in the summer league. That said, Barea has looked great out there. I hope Pops is on the team next year. He can be a solid player off the bench for us. Very athletic and grabs rebounds like a man. The player I'm kind of disappointed in is Ager. He looks off and on and shows little consistency. He really needs a ton of work.
Harris has never diplayed the ability to get others involved the way Barea does. He gets scrubs shots they can make and puts them in great position, Harris hasnt shown the ability to distibute the way a point should. Barea is also a much better shooter.


And your right about Pops, guys is a mad rebounder and doesnt back down. Mavs def need to find a spot for him

[ShoogarBear]

http://markramsey.com/wp-content/dirkcuban.jpgMark Cuban demonstrates his "do-it-yourself-colonoscopy" technique.

[J21]

http://www.cadenhead.org/workbench/gems/dallas-mavericks-nba-champs-2006.jpg

[Kriz-Maxima]

oh thats cold.

I think the young guys should get a bit of playing time. Barea and Pops have really looked great and they have worked hard. Barea's size could be a problem but if Boykins did it, maybe he can. The good thing about Barea is that he works hard and is a willing student, plus being undrafted he might put that much effort into it.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Mavs interested in Webber and Francis


The Mavericks also have some interest in veteran center-forward Chris Webber and point guard Steve Francis, who got a $30 million buyout from Portland on Wednesday and became a free agent.

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/spt/stories/071207dnspomavs.34e20be.html

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Mavs looking at James Singleton


Sources tell RealGM that Chicago, Dallas, Miami, Milwaukee, Minnesota and Phoenix have all expressed interest in Singleton.

As is the case at this point in the free agency season, players like Singleton must be patient as the interested teams put other pieces in place.

Singleton will turn 26 this month and is known as one of the most efficient rebounders in the NBA, with a career rebound rate of 15.8.

http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/47088/20070712/singleton_drawing_interest_from_several_teams/

[ShoogarBear]

:lmao

Webber and Francis?

:lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao

[Johnny RIngo]

Although Webber and Francis used to be very good players they seem to jinx almost every team they play on these days. Still, If they can come cheap the Mavs should consider it anyways. Their frontcourt is lacking and their guard position could use some help.

[monosylab1k]

I wouldn't totally hate having Webber, but Francis? hell fucking no.

[wildchild]

Would you like to see the Mavs add a big like, say P.J. Brown?

P.J.Brown? not kidding!

[Findog]

I wouldn't totally hate having Webber, but Francis? hell fucking no.

Webber has his flaws at this point in his career, but if he's willing to play for 15-20 minutes a night for peanuts, isn't he an upgrade as a replacement for Van Suck or Croshere?

Francis I'd have to pass on, even if he comes at a bargain price. Too many concerns about his health and his attitude.

[Dalhoop]

Right now, I like what the Mavs have.

What is not being brought up here is this

Harris is a 24
Ager is 23
Barea is 23
Diop is 25
Howard is 27
Pop's is 24

Your prepared to give up on Harris when even now is close to being the youngest on the team. Your willing to give everyone else time to develop, but for Harris no? He does play the most difficult position to learn in the NBA.

Although not all those players on the above list will see meaningful minutes this coming year, Howard will improve, as will Harris and Diop. The bench is young, this is true, but to say that they are not talented in not the truth.

What the mavs are trying to do is remake the bench on the fly. They have youth, some of those are going to stick in the NBA. The have vets in Stackhouse and George that have been there before.

At this point, the mavs are standing pat in the FA market. This is not like we are saying the Knicks are staying pat. The Mavs are coming off a 67 win season and Finals appearance the year before, staying pat at that level is not a bad play.

Staying pat with that number of youth that can improve their games and with the success that the team has had resently is a VERY good move.

We may not have five starters coming off the bench like a few years ago, but this bench has a great mix of youth and experiance.