Rumor on Amir Johnson interest by Spurs

[picnroll]

link (http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070712/SPORTS0102/707120333/1127)

second order of business, locking up 20-year-old power forward Amir Johnson, wasn't as swift.

Johnson was expected to join the summer league team in Las Vegas on Wednesday afternoon -- an indication a deal was imminent -- but he did not play.

The deal is still not done. The Pistons are believed to have offered a three-year deal worth as much as $10 million. It's possible that Bill Duffy, Johnson's agent, might have had interest from another team, maybe San Antonio. But the Pistons have made it clear they will match any offer.

What if the Spurs are trying to dumpo Butler to use money for Johnson?

[Darkwaters]

Maybe we can include Butler in a S&T for Johnson?

[drmvp]

What if the Spurs are trying to dumpo Butler to use money for Johnson?

What if the Spurs are trying to use Butler to acquire Johnson in a sign & trade?

Detroit could use a big body like Butler, couldn't they?

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

I think you're reading too much into it. If you pay attention to all the sound bites on free agents, SA is a popular name to drop by agents so they can get better offers elsewhere.

[picnroll]

Given the SPurs track record on spending for FAs of late I think their name would be the last one agents would be dropping. Rasho, Finley, Barry all signed for less than they could get elsewhere. That said I'd pack Butler's bags if he could get the Spurs the ultra-athletic and somewhat skilled Johnson, probably a much better prospect than Mahinmi. Pistons certainly seem to have it all over the Spurs when it comes to talent evaluation (minus the Darko fiasco).

[pad300]

link (http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070712/SPORTS0102/707120333/1127)

second order of business, locking up 20-year-old power forward Amir Johnson, wasn't as swift.

Johnson was expected to join the summer league team in Las Vegas on Wednesday afternoon -- an indication a deal was imminent -- but he did not play.

The deal is still not done. The Pistons are believed to have offered a three-year deal worth as much as $10 million. It's possible that Bill Duffy, Johnson's agent, might have had interest from another team, maybe San Antonio. But the Pistons have made it clear they will match any offer.

What if the Spurs are trying to dumpo Butler to use money for Johnson?

Stealing Amir would probably be a good deal. It's always nice to steal a good prospect (like we did to the knicks with Butler). However, to make space, my reccomendation would be to deal Elson (who would be roughly the correct amount of cap space at 10 mil/3 yrs) to the NJ nets who might be interested in replacing Mikki Moore, as he wants more money to resign than they are willing to offer. Amir would be a better fit in Elson's spot anyway - he's much more of a face-up runner than a back to the basket banger, if reports are to be believed...

Assorted Articles that mention Johnson (particularly the D-League Reports)
http://www.draftexpress.com/viewprofile.php?p=293&page=links

[Gros Membres!]

Don't catch any NBADL. What's his deal? He's 6'10" PF whose game is still rough. He addresses none of our needs, as this board sees them.

[BacktoBasics]

I think you're reading too much into it. If you pay attention to all the sound bites on free agents, SA is a popular name to drop by agents so they can get better offers elsewhere.Excellent point. I often feel the same way.

[SenorSpur]

link (http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070712/SPORTS0102/707120333/1127)

second order of business, locking up 20-year-old power forward Amir Johnson, wasn't as swift.

Johnson was expected to join the summer league team in Las Vegas on Wednesday afternoon -- an indication a deal was imminent -- but he did not play.

The deal is still not done. The Pistons are believed to have offered a three-year deal worth as much as $10 million. It's possible that Bill Duffy, Johnson's agent, might have had interest from another team, maybe San Antonio. But the Pistons have made it clear they will match any offer.

What if the Spurs are trying to dumpo Butler to use money for Johnson?

Don't forget to read the fine print on that last line of the excerpt....

....But the Pistons have made it clear they will match any offer.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Given the SPurs track record on spending for FAs of late I think their name would be the last one agents would be dropping. Rasho, Finley, Barry all signed for less than they could get elsewhere. That said I'd pack Butler's bags if he could get the Spurs the ultra-athletic and somewhat skilled Johnson, probably a much better prospect than Mahinmi. Pistons certainly seem to have it all over the Spurs when it comes to talent evaluation (minus the Darko fiasco).

I don't see it happening with all free agents. I do see it happening with those who play point guard and SF, two places most people agree the Spurs have a need.

[Marklar MM]

Don't catch any NBADL. What's his deal? He's 6'10" PF whose game is still rough. He addresses none of our needs, as this board sees them.

he is 6'11" now.

[Marcus Bryant]

Why would the Spurs offer more than 3 yrs, $10 mil guaranteed to someone who has played a total of 163 minutes in the NBA?

[MoSpur]

I think the statement about Detroit matching any offers is the agent trying to get a lot more $$$$

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

He could be our long SF we need, but nothing over 3M a year.

[Big P]

I think the statement about Detroit matching any offers is the agent trying to get a lot more $$$$

No, its about Detroit scaring off any potential teams that might have interest in Johnson.

[Kori Ellis]

Amir Johnson is who I wanted this summer as the athletic 4/long 3 - he's a better rebounder than anyone on the Spurs outside Duncan. But it looks like (unless something weird happens) Detroit will keep him.

[picnroll]

This could be the guy that is the Dirk solution. It would be nice to see the Spurs break form and go after him but little chance of that.

[pad300]

Looking at this long-term, this works fairly well, even if we unload Elson instead of Butler. Consider the squad has room for 6 bigs (Note Johnson is not an SF - he's not got much of a jumpshot. He does however, play face-up rather than back to the basket).

Guaranteed contracts, () indicates the Spurs might move him to make space
07-08 Duncan, Oberto, Horry, Bonner, (Elson), (Butler)
if we move either Elson or Butler we have room. If we further subdivide into Back to the Basket and Face-up bigs, we get
Duncan, Oberto, (Butler) - BtBB
Horry, Bonner, (Elson) - FuB
For optimum fit, moving Elson for space would be optimum, as I suggested above. Assuming trade Elson for space and bring both Mahnimi and Splitter, we get

This would give 07/08
Duncan, Oberto, Butler - BtBB
Horry, Bonner, Johnson - FuB

Next year there is a roster crunch
08/09
Duncan, Oberto, (Butler) - BtBB
Bonner, Johnson - FuB
Splitter (almost guaranteed to bring over, due to buyout structure) (BtBB or FuB, I don't know), Mahnimi (FuB) - Strong Prospects to bring over
Scola (BtBB) - Lower likelyhood prospect to bring over

We would have 3 strong prospects and 1 spot.
Duncan, Oberto, Butler, Splitter - BtBB
Bonner, Johnson, Mahnimi - FuB

if we traded Butler for space:

Duncan, Oberto, Splitter - BtBB
Bonner, Johnson, Mahnimi - FuB

The first option leaves us with only 8 spots for Wings and PGs, which might be less than optimal. The second option, moving Butler instead of Elson, we would have a better situation, but it might jeopardize our repeat chance in 07/08 (due to fit).

09/10
Duncan, Oberto (team option?), Splitter (almost certain) - BtBB
Bonner (team option?), Johnson?, Mahinmi?

If we resign Butler, and let Oberto go/Trade him,
Duncan, Butler, Splitter - BtBB
Bonner, Johnson, Mahinmi

Clearly in all of this, we would need to move Scola's rights, as he becomes caught in the numbers crunch. Does anyone think a 3 way S&T might work -

Nets Get - rights to Scola, Elson
Nets Give - Trade Exception, 08 First

Detroit Get - Nets 08 First, Trade Exception
Detroit Gives - Johnson S&T (?12 million/3 yrs?)

SA Get - Johnson S&T (?12 million/3 yrs?)
SA Gives - rights to Scola, Elson

[Marcus Bryant]

I think the likelier scenario is that Mahinmi replaces Butler this summer and Splitter replaces Elson next summer. Their rookie contracts are much too tempting for the Spurs.

[timvp]

I like Amir Johnson. I think he's going to be a good player down the line. There's a chance he blows up Jermaine O'Neal style.

However, he doesn't make a huge amount of sense on the Spurs. He's more 4 than 3. And his negative attributes are concerning his rawness, slow rotations defensively and a low basketball IQ.

The Spurs and their fans would never give him time to develop. The Spurs got Jackie Butler in a similar situation and a couple weeks into having him, everyone in town was ready to throw him away. You sign Amir Johnson, you have to baby him for three or four more years.

But all that would end up happening on the Spurs is everyone would get impatient because he wouldn't be David Robinson out of the box and he wouldn't have much playing time to try to improve on the court. And the Spurs would end up trading him for a second round pick in 2009.

On top of that, he's going to cost $3-4M per year at least to actually steal him away from the Pistons. Not worth the gamble giving this team and this city's willingness to let a player develop.

[El_Mago]

Spurs should look at Jarvis Hayes.

Wizards are not going to sign him.

[picnroll]

Last year in the NBA Amir played 8 games:
MPG - 15.5
PPG - 5.9
FG% - .545
FT% - .786
RPG - 4.6
BPG - 1.6

Now translate that into 25 MPG or even 30. And this is a 20 year old.

Something tells me the Spurs wouldn't have to "baby him for three or four more years". If he were a Spur now fans here would be creaming themselves and calling Pop an idiot for not playing him more.

Supposedly, at least one report has it, one hang up in the Pistons signing him is that he only wants a three year deal and they want to lock him up for five.

Butler is never going to be agile. He's never going to be even an average defender. He's never going to have elevation. Christ he makes Rasho look like a dunking machine. Highly questionable he'll be motivated and God forbid what he's like if he ever lands a solid long term contract.

[Marcus Bryant]

That's too little to give someone $10 million.

[picnroll]

http://aol.nba.com/media/act_matt_bonner.jpg
That's too little to give someone $10 million.
MPG - 11.7
PPG - 4.9
FG% - .447
FT% - .711
RPG - 2.8
BPG - 0.2

Then again not sure Marcus would say this guy was worth $10 million either. :lol

[Marcus Bryant]

Bonner's shown he can play in the league. Johnson hasn't done that. All we have is 163 minutes in 11 games. Would Johnson be worth say, $5 mil over 2 years with a team option for the 2nd year? Perhaps.

[objective]

Can Johnson stay in good shape?

If so, that's a plus over Butler.

[lotr1trekkie]

Elson isn't going anywhere to be replaced by someone who will spend the season on the IL. Our FO likes mature Euros who KNOW how to play team ball . I like White but he can't shoot from outside, he is almost 25 and can't be sent to the Toros. As far as the Pistons being a better evaluator of talent. Didn't they give Nazr about 20 mill to sit on the bench and sign CWebb. Maybe they will take Butler off our hands!

[Marcus Bryant]

Elson knows how to play team defense?

[timvp]

Last year in the NBA Amir played 8 games:
MPG - 15.5
PPG - 5.9
FG% - .545
FT% - .786
RPG - 4.6
BPG - 1.6

Now translate that into 25 MPG or even 30. And this is a 20 year old.

Something tells me the Spurs wouldn't have to "baby him for three or four more years". If he were a Spur now fans here would be creaming themselves and calling Pop an idiot for not playing him more.

Supposedly, at least one report has it, one hang up in the Pistons signing him is that he only wants a three year deal and they want to lock him up for five.

Butler is never going to be agile. He's never going to be even an average defender. He's never going to have elevation. Christ he makes Rasho look like a dunking machine. Highly questionable he'll be motivated and God forbid what he's like if he ever lands a solid long term contract.

Research more on Amir. There are people within the Pistons organization who say he'll never be more than a bit player because he's too dumb and his basketball IQ is too low to ever amount to anything. Does that sound like someone who would work on the Spurs?

Butler might be slow and out of shape but he at least has decent to good basketball IQ. Some Pistons staffers say Amir is a lost cause.

[Mr. Body]

A player who puts up good stats like that but can't find more playing time - there must be something wrong either with his attitude or his basketball knowledge.

[picnroll]

Research more on Amir. There are people within the Pistons organization who say he'll never be more than a bit player because he's too dumb and his basketball IQ is too low to ever amount to anything. Does that sound like someone who would work on the Spurs?

Butler might be slow and out of shape but he at least has decent to good basketball IQ. Some Pistons staffers say Amir is a lost cause.
Dumars has publicly commented a number of times that after signing Billups resigning Johnson is the next priority. They are foregoing using their MLE this year and if they didn't target resigning Johnson that money could be used. Doesn't sound like a guy that the Pistons don't want around.


A player who puts up good stats like that but can't find more playing time - there must be something wrong either with his attitude or his basketball knowledge.
Tough to break into a lineup with Wallace, Webber, McDyess, Maxiell. Even Maxiell wasn't getting a lot of playing time. Then you have Nazr taking up another big man roster spot.

[timvp]

Dumars has publicly commented a number of times that after signing Billups resigning Johnson is the next priority. They are foregoing using their MLE this year and if they didn't target resigning Johnson that money could be used. Doesn't sound like a guy that the Pistons don't want around.


Tough to break into a lineup with Wallace, Webber, McDyess, Maxiell. Even Maxiell wasn't getting a lot of playing time. Then you have Nazr taking up another big man roster spot.

Okay, I'll do your research for you then:


And I am telling you, there is a major division within the organization about Johnson's future. Joe Dumars and John Hammond believe the kid could be something very special. Some on the coaching staff believe he will never be more than an end of the bench reserve. Coach Flip Saunders has steadfastly refused to make any final determination, giving the 20-year-old ample time to mature. But Johnson has to get stronger. He has to get tougher and he has to start showing some court judgment. He still relies on his inate athleticism to get him through. He forgets plays and assignments. He has enough physical tools to make an impact. But he has to learn how to play the game -- otherwise, he could end up like Rodney White.


http://info.detnews.com/pistonsblog/index.cfm

If you think Butler's bad, I can't imagine what you'd be saying if the Spurs have $10M+ invested in Rodney White, Jr. :lol

[timvp]

And you do you trust, Joe Dumars who thought Darko was the white David Robinson, or Dave Cowens who actually knows what it takes to be a bigman in the NBA and thinks Amir Johnson is an end of the bench scrub?

[Marcus Bryant]

I'd much rather see the Spurs give 3 years and $10 million to a player like Ime Udoka. At least you know he can perform well over the course of an entire season.

[timvp]

Let's get rid of Jackie Butler's fat ass because he gets tired and pay 5 times more for a guy who forgets plays on team that got swept in six games by a team the Spurs swept.

:lmao

[objective]

Let's get rid of Jackie Butler's fat ass because he gets tired and pay 5 times more for a guy who forgets plays on team that got swept in six games by a team the Spurs swept.

:lmao

somebody wants to pay Amir Johson 12.5 million a year?

that's madness!

[timvp]

somebody wants to pay Amir Johson 12.5 million a year?

that's madness!

:rolleyes

Would you sign Rodney White to a three-year, $12.5M contract?

[picnroll]

Okay, I'll do your research for you then:



If you think Butler's bad, I can't imagine what you'd be saying if the Spurs have $10M+ invested in Rodney White, Jr. :lol
At the very worst that makes him an Elson with much more upside. Did Dumars and Hammond blow it on Maxiell, Prince, or Stuckey or Afflalo, even Samb as it appears? I'll take the Pistons' talent assessment over the Spurs of late every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

[objective]

:rolleyes

Would you sign Rodney White to a three-year, $12.5M contract?

hmmmmmmm.

maybe. That's only paying less than 2 times what Butler is getting, not 5. So that seems reasonable. He wasn't on the team that was swept in six games was he?

:lol

Regardless, anyone who has actually heard the Dumars radio interview where he gushed uncontrollably over Amir Johnson, as I have, should be fairly certain that the Pistons would match anything up to the MLE.

[timvp]

At the very worst that makes him an Elson with much more upside. Did Dumars and Hammond blow it on Maxiell, Prince, or Stuckey or Afflalo, even Samb as it appears? I'll take the Pistons' talent assessment over the Spurs of late every day of the week and twice on Sunday.If the Pistons don't match the Spurs offer for Amir Johnson, you'd be going with the Spurs talent assessment over the Pistons.

[timvp]

That's only paying less than 2 times what Butler is getting, not 5.

If Butler sucks, the Spurs lose $2.3M. If Amir Johnson sucks, the Spurs would lose $12-15M.

Let me know how much more the Spurs would lose with Butler compared to Amir.

Thanks :)

[picnroll]

If the Pistons don't match the Spurs offer for Amir Johnson, you'd be going with the Spurs talent assessment over the Pistons. Pistons will match an offer it appears unless the Spurs would make an offer that causes pain which is about as likely as Marcus Williams making the all star team next year.

[Kori Ellis]

Regardless, anyone who has actually heard the Dumars radio interview where he gushed uncontrollably over Amir Johnson, as I have, should be fairly certain that the Pistons would match anything up to the MLE.

Yeah Dumars has man love for Amir. So I think they'll match. But there were some grumblings about the luxury tax, Johnson's inability to remember the basics, etc. that might hold them back.

By the way, I completely disagree with timvp. I'd sign Amir for 3 years/$10M with an option on the third year. I think he's talented enough to overcome any low basketball IQ :lol But hey, I'm not a GM.

[timvp]

Pistons will match an offer it appears unless the Spurs would make an offer that causes pain which is about as likely as Marcus Williams making the all star team next year.Then what are we debating about? :smokin

Amir Johnson isn't coming to the Spurs because he would cost too much for a player who could be Francisco Elson with a bad attitude. Agreed?

[timvp]

Yeah Dumars has man love for Amir. So I think they'll match. But there were some grumblings about the luxury tax, Johnson's inability to remember the basics, etc. that might hold them back.

By the way, I completely disagree with timvp. I'd sign Amir for 3 years/$10M with an option on the third year. I think he's talented enough to overcome any low basketball IQ :lol But hey, I'm not a GM.

I'd sign him for that amount, too. I think he has a chance to be good.

I'm just pointing out the double standard. Butler is still learning how to play and isn't there yet so the Spurs want to ship him off. In his place, Spurs fans want to get a guy who makes twice as much per year (or five times as much total) for a guy who is even further away from contributing with Elson-like characteristics.

The same Spurs fans would be wanting to trade Amir Johnson away for a second rounder by this time next year after he fails to live up to expectations while rotting on the bench for a year.

[picnroll]

Then what are we debating about? :smokin


Beats watching replays of the Spurs SL team.

[Kori Ellis]

I'd sign him for that amount, too. I think he has a chance to be good.

I'm just pointing out the double standard. Butler is still learning how to play and isn't there yet so the Spurs want to ship him off. In his place, Spurs fans want to get a guy who makes twice as much per year (or five times as much total) for a guy who is even further away from contributing with Elson-like characteristics.

The same Spurs fans would be wanting to trade Amir Johnson away for a second rounder by this time next year after he fails to live up to expectations while rotting on the bench for a year.

Some people see Butler as more of a throw away because the Spurs have other centers. The reason I'd want Amir is because the Spurs don't have an athletic power forward who could sometimes play the 3.

That's a huge difference to me.

[timvp]

Beats watching replays of the Spurs SL team.
Amen.

:hat

[Marcus Bryant]

Butler needs to change his name to Jacques Butliér. Then maybe Spurs fans would love him.

[Spurs Brazil]

Sources: Pistons, forward Johnson agree to 3-year deal
ESPN.com news services

Updated: July 12, 2007, 4:53 PM ET
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Restricted free-agent forward Amir Johnson has agreed to re-sign with the Detroit Pistons for an estimated $12 million over three years, NBA front-office sources told ESPN.com on Thursday.




Johnson

The Pistons have now realized their top two offseason priorities by retaining the promising young Johnson and keeping 2004 NBA Finals MVP Chauncey Billups.

The Pistons have hardly used Johnson since taking him with the 56th pick in the 2005 NBA draft. In two seasons with Detroit, Johnson has played in just 11 games.

He posted a career-high 20 points on 10-for-14 shooting in this season's finale against the Celtics.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2934290

[Ken Loomis]

:lmao :lmao

[Marcus Bryant]

3 yrs/$12 mil? If that is fully guaranteed you have a contract to add to those 'bad contracts' lists that pop up from time to time.

[MoSpur]

There goes that.

[MoSpur]

I think he would be great at small ball as the PF.