10,000 B.c.

[peewee's lovechild]

Here's a link to the movie "10,000 B.C.":

http://movies.yahoo.com/movie/1809724938/video/3317950/

This is gonna piss off all the "pure hearted" Christians on Spurs Talk.

[Viva Las Espuelas]

Why would this piss of Christians? Oh by the way, The "C" in BC stands for Christ. If Christ wasn't real then why do we use BC and AD, or why did we use BC and AD? CE and BCE are now use. Common Era and Before Common Era. Oh well.

[Soul_Patch]

I dont think people debate whether he was real or not...I believe people just debate his significance.

[peewee's lovechild]

Why would this piss of Christians? Oh by the way, The "C" in BC stands for Christ. If Christ wasn't real then why do we use BC and AD, or why did we use BC and AD? CE and BCE are now use. Common Era and Before Common Era. Oh well.

Because Christian believe that the world was created 6,000 years ago, or 4,000 B.C. if that makes you feel better.

This movie takes place 4,000 years before the world began, according to Christians.

The movie will be condemned as heresy.

[BacktoBasics]

I'm not believing anything unless the chics have hairy armpits, legs, vagoo's.

[Spurminator]

The only thing that pisses me off about this is that the director of Independence Day and The Day After Tomorrow is still able to find work.

[Avitus1]

For the record only "Crazy Fundamental" Christians believe the world was created 6,000 years ago.

At any rate this movie looks kinda cool, dont really like the guys from Independence Day... remember Godzilla. Yeah....

*Sigh*

[peewee's lovechild]

I'm not believing anything unless the chics have hairy armpits, legs, vagoo's.

:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

[peewee's lovechild]

For the record only "Crazy Fundamental" Christians believe the world was created 6,000 years ago.

At any rate this movie looks kinda cool, dont really like the guys from Independence Day... remember Godzilla. Yeah....

*Sigh*

"Godzilla" wasn't all that bad . . . if you take away some of the acting, the plot, and the Godzilla creature.

[Avitus1]

Yea the New York aspect of Godzilla was pretty cool.

[Extra Stout]

Because Christian* believe that the world was created 6,000 years ago, or 4,000 B.C. if that makes you feel better.

This movie takes place 4,000 years before the world began, according to Christians*.

The movie will be condemned as heresy.
* excluding Roman Catholic, Orthodox, mainline Protestant, and non-conservative/fundamentalist evangelical Christians.

[inconvertible]

Christians don't believe the world is 6000 years old? the time and date is never given in Genesis. Adam never had a watch, from what I've read.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Because Christian believe that the world was created 6,000 years ago, or 4,000 B.C. if that makes you feel better.

This movie takes place 4,000 years before the world began, according to Christians.

The movie will be condemned as heresy.


I think you need to release your pent up anger towards our Lord. Do you remember the movie Forrest Gump where Lt. Dan rides out the storm on top of the ship and in so doing, in the words of Forrest, "made his peace with Gawd"?

Maybe you should go look for a shrimpin' boat somewhere.







Who knows, worst case maybe you'll become a millionaire shrimp boat captain.

[Avitus1]

Forrest Gump was a sweet movie.

[peewee's lovechild]

I think you need to release your pent up anger towards our Lord. Do you remember the movie Forrest Gump where Lt. Dan rides out the storm on top of the ship and in so doing, in the words of Forrest, "made his peace with Gawd"?

Maybe you should go look for a shrimpin' boat somewhere.







Who knows, worst case maybe you'll become a millionaire shrimp boat captain.

You're basing your theological discourse on Forrest Gump??

You're a wise and mystical sage my friend.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

You're basing your theological discourse on Forrest Gump??

You're a wise and mystical sage my friend.


Scientology is based on science fiction, so I figure I needed to get with the program.

Anyway, real science is constantly being disproven. You've already said literal interpretations of the Bible are not to be believed. So I've merely reverted to the only reliable source of truth left in the universe....Tom Hanks movies.

[peewee's lovechild]

Scientology is based on science fiction, so I figure I needed to get with the program.

Anyway, real science is constantly being disproven. You've already said literal interpretations of the Bible are not to be believed. So I've merely reverted to the only reliable source of truth left in the universe....Tom Hanks movies.

You're speaking to the choir in regards to Scientology. That's a piece of shit religion if I've ever seen one.

However, you are completely mistaken about science being disproven.
That's just the most idiotic statement I've ever heard.

Scientists are recreating body parts in peatree(sp) dishes, cloning animals, discovering planets with water, discovering new galaxies, etc. And, you come up with that??

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

You're speaking to the choir in regards to Scientology. That's a piece of shit religion if I've ever seen one.

However, you are completely mistaken about science being disproven.
That's just the most idiotic statement I've ever heard.

Scientists are recreating body parts in peatree(sp) dishes, cloning animals, discovering planets with water, discovering new galaxies, etc. And, you come up with that??

I am a big believer in science, don't misunderstand, but science is constantly re-writing itself as new things are discovered...that's been the story of science throughout history. Pick up any scientific or medical journal that's greater than 30 years old and a substantial portion of what you read will no longer be relevant based upon currently discovered truths.

Science is still in its infancy in my opinion. I'll bet there are multiple dimensions that are still untapped, and billions of discoveries yet to be made. A lot of what you believe as scientific "fact" today will probably be disproven more than once in your lifetime.

And I'd bet money that thousands of years from now, when humans have matured intellectually and scientifically, we'll probably see that there were intelligent forces at work directing everything the whole time.

The ultimate scientific discovery will be God.

[peewee's lovechild]

I am a big believer in science, don't misunderstand, but science is constantly re-writing itself as new things are discovered...that's been the story of science throughout history. Pick up any scientific or medical journal that's greater than 30 years old and a substantial portion of what you read will no longer be relevant based upon currently discovered truths.

Science is still in its infancy in my opinion. I'll bet there are multiple dimensions that are still untapped, and billions of discoveries yet to be made. A lot of what you believe as scientific "fact" today will probably be disproven more than once in your lifetime.

And I'd bet money that thousands of years from now, when humans have matured intellectually and scientifically, we'll probably see that there were intelligent forces at work directing everything the whole time.

The ultimate scientific discovery will be God.

No, in a thousand year the concept of God will be gone and done with.

You see, "God" was needed in the past to explain the things we did not know. Thunder, lightning, hurricanes, erupting volcanoes, earthquakes, etc. However, science has explained all this phenomena. With each new discovery, god is diminished.

The acceptance of human intelligence, independent of god, and the progress of science have made god irrelevant. Religion retards progress. Take for example Galileo. The "Church" was going to condemn him to death because he claimed that the Earth revolved around the Sun, not the other way around. Well, Galileo had to reverse his stance to avoid death, even though he muttered, "E por si move." (It still moves, referring to Earth moving). Each step of the way, religion has tried to hold science back. At first by killing and torturing those that made breakthroughs, and then by demanding that their flock turn their back on science. We see it now with our delisuional President that refuses to let our scientists do research on stem cells. Meanwhile, Europe's own research with stem cells has allowed scientists to grow heart valves, bladders, skin cells, etc.

Science has always proven religion wrong. And, it always will.

But, what I find real ironic is that if you or a close family member (a son/daughter perhaps) ever falls terminally ill and your only choice is to accept new scientific breakthroughs to save thier life, you would do it in a heart beat and forget about God real quick.

Funny thing is that you'd probably credit god rather than the actuall humans that made it possible.

Don't worry though, science isn't partial. It will always be there for you.

[Spurminator]

The Church <> Religion

George W. Bush <> Religion

[Extra Stout]

No, in a thousand year the concept of God will be gone and done with.
They always say that, but then it keeps not happening.

[inconvertible]

the sun will get bigger, turn red and then swallow the earths atmosphere in 1/2 billion years..................the clock is ticking.

[T Park]

sounds like peewee's lovechild is still bitter as his parents for making him go to church and wants to just be pissed at goduh.

[inconvertible]

journey back in time to discover.....nouns.

[peewee's lovechild]

journey back in time to discover.....nouns.

No shit, fucker can't write.

[peewee's lovechild]

sounds like peewee's lovechild is still bitter as his parents for making him go to church and wants to just be pissed at goduh.

Yes, I'm pissed that they made me waste my time as a kid.

[peewee's lovechild]

the sun will get bigger, turn red and then swallow the earths atmosphere in 1/2 billion years..................the clock is ticking.

LOL!!

True, very true.

[Pistons < Spurs]

You see, "God" was needed in the past to explain the things we did not know. Thunder, lightning, hurricanes, erupting volcanoes, earthquakes, etc. However, science has explained all this phenomena. With each new discovery, god is diminished.




:clap :clap :clap

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

No, in a thousand year the concept of God will be gone and done with.

You see, "God" was needed in the past to explain the things we did not know. Thunder, lightning, hurricanes, erupting volcanoes, earthquakes, etc. However, science has explained all this phenomena. With each new discovery, god is diminished.

The acceptance of human intelligence, independent of god, and the progress of science have made god irrelevant. Religion retards progress. Take for example Galileo. The "Church" was going to condemn him to death because he claimed that the Earth revolved around the Sun, not the other way around. Well, Galileo had to reverse his stance to avoid death, even though he muttered, "E por si move." (It still moves, referring to Earth moving). Each step of the way, religion has tried to hold science back. At first by killing and torturing those that made breakthroughs, and then by demanding that their flock turn their back on science. We see it now with our delisuional President that refuses to let our scientists do research on stem cells. Meanwhile, Europe's own research with stem cells has allowed scientists to grow heart valves, bladders, skin cells, etc.

Science has always proven religion wrong. And, it always will.

But, what I find real ironic is that if you or a close family member (a son/daughter perhaps) ever falls terminally ill and your only choice is to accept new scientific breakthroughs to save thier life, you would do it in a heart beat and forget about God real quick.

Funny thing is that you'd probably credit god rather than the actuall humans that made it possible.

Don't worry though, science isn't partial. It will always be there for you.

God will be there for you, too, if you ask.

I applaud science, and you're right, I'd bet there are forces at work guiding these men in their scientific discoveries.

For the record, I have beaten an illness that could easily have been terminal, and yes I gave credit to God who I know guided me to the right doctors with the knowledge to help me overcome.

I also gave some small credit to the Chopper, for being a badass with huge stones capable of overcoming anything.

peepee, I'll bet when you're about to kick it, you'll reach out to God, I have no doubt. I've been close, so I know first hand. I'd be glad to be there to collect when this happens. I'll be laughing all the way to the bank.

Deep in your heart you believe, that's why you try so adamantly to explain away this wonderful existence and amazing universe as being an accident. It's cool, I've been through it myself.

[peewee's lovechild]

God will be there for you, too, if you ask.

I applaud science, and you're right, I'd bet there are forces at work guiding these men in their scientific discoveries.

For the record, I have beaten an illness that could easily have been terminal, and yes I gave credit to God who I know guided me to the right doctors with the knowledge to help me overcome.

I also gave some small credit to the Chopper, for being a badass with huge stones capable of overcoming anything.

peepee, I'll bet when you're about to kick it, you'll reach out to God, I have no doubt. I've been close, so I know first hand. I'd be glad to be there to collect when this happens. I'll be laughing all the way to the bank.

Deep in your heart you believe, that's why you try so adamantly to explain away this wonderful existence and amazing universe as being an accident. It's cool, I've been through it myself.

Dude, you're dellusional. You give "credit to God" who you "know guided" you "to the right doctors with the knowledge" to help you overcome your illness???

That's a bullshit cop-out.
Keep in mind this: God wasn't the one who oversaw you back to health. It wasn't a winged angel. It wasn't Jesus in all his glory in the hospital with you.

Doctors. Human beings. Simple human beings that used the many, many years of research and expirementation. Simple human beings that used THEIR knowledge to help bring you back to health. And, you shit on them bringing you back from near death to give thanks to god????

It's a good thing that god likes you, and that he was there for you. Because, I'll tell you this: He doesn't like people in the Sudan, Ethiopia, Rawanda, Somalia, Guatemala, El Salvador, Honduras, Mozambique, India, Bangladesh, Tibet, Iraq, Afganistan, Yemen, Iran, Sri Lanka, Mongolia, and Malaysia just to name a few.

All these countries are suffering. People die every day. Children die at a rate of 5 every half hour. All these countries are lacking in modern medical care. All these countries are lacking scientists to lead the way. All these countries turn to their gods, and all their gods have cast a blind eye.

But, it's a good thing your god has a particular liking to Americans. It's a lucky break for you. I'm glad you can believe that bullshit. Good for you.

But, don't you for one second try to lecture me and tell me that deep down inside I believe in your pretentious, backward beliefs. I've never presumed to know what you believe. I'm at odds with what you believe, but I've never presumed to tell you what you believe.

Fuck you!!
I don't believe in your childish, selfish, vindictive god.

I never will.

[ashbeeigh]

Fuck you!!
I don't believe in your childish, selfish, vindictive god.

I never will.

EHJ was never asking you to believe in his God peewee, he was just sharing his experience. Yet again, there is no reason to get so angry with people about "our God." Spurstalk is a very diverse community. It wasn't until you started these last two threads that we've had these discussions (aside from one other one that I can remember..). We're a happy bunch that love basketball and love talking about movies, tacos, current events, NorCal's supposed blackness and a bunch of other assorted topics during the off-season. I'm surprised you haven't attacked SAButta's thread that asked for prayers yet. I respect your opinions, but not when they're spouted out for not reason. This was one of them.

[SCdac]

"10,000 BC" looks pretty cool. Sabertooth tigers are the shit. Any movie with an accurate portrayal of them, I'll probably see. The maker of "Independence Day" and "The Day After Tomorrrow" tackling this idea, I don't see as a downside in this particular case. Though I could understand the skepticism. Let's hope Emmerich learned from flops like "The Day After Tomorrow" and "Godzilla", and turns this movie into something worth watching more than once. His "Stargate" film was something I enjoyed much.

In other movie news, I'm excited to see "Sunshine". Getting a chance to watch it this upcoming tuesday. Been anticipating it for awhile, or since I've seen the trailer at least. Not only looking forward to the superb special effects, but it looks like such a drama piece.

Peewee, if it makes you feel any better, I couldn't agree with you anymore. Actually believing in a "God" is a scary notion to me too, let alone attributing every advancement or every morsel of success to "him". Not quite in line with reality in my opinion, but to each their own. Some people have been convinced, or convinced themselves, there is a "God", to the point of no return. Not even worth talking about in many cases. Dealing with something that people are so emotionally attached to, fact and reason go out the door. Belief and faith are end-all-be-all. I'm sure you don't need to be told any of this, just sayin, I see where you're coming from.

[Extra Stout]

Atheists who really are at peace with their beliefs are rarely so hostile about it as peewee here is.

[BacktoBasics]

Dude, you're dellusional. You give "credit to God" who you "know guided" you "to the right doctors with the knowledge" to help you overcome your illness???

That's a bullshit cop-out.
Keep in mind this: God wasn't the one who oversaw you back to health. It wasn't a winged angel. It wasn't Jesus in all his glory in the hospital with you.

Doctors. Human beings. Simple human beings that used the many, many years of research and expirementation. Simple human beings that used THEIR knowledge to help bring you back to health. And, you shit on them bringing you back from near death to give thanks to god????

It's a good thing that god likes you, and that he was there for you. Because, I'll tell you this: He doesn't like people in the Sudan, Ethiopia, Rawanda, Somalia, Guatemala, El Salvador, Honduras, Mozambique, India, Bangladesh, Tibet, Iraq, Afganistan, Yemen, Iran, Sri Lanka, Mongolia, and Malaysia just to name a few.

All these countries are suffering. People die every day. Children die at a rate of 5 every half hour. All these countries are lacking in modern medical care. All these countries are lacking scientists to lead the way. All these countries turn to their gods, and all their gods have cast a blind eye.

But, it's a good thing your god has a particular liking to Americans. It's a lucky break for you. I'm glad you can believe that bullshit. Good for you.

But, don't you for one second try to lecture me and tell me that deep down inside I believe in your pretentious, backward beliefs. I've never presumed to know what you believe. I'm at odds with what you believe, but I've never presumed to tell you what you believe.

Fuck you!!
I don't believe in your childish, selfish, vindictive god.

I never will.That was a great post!!!!!

I'm still interested in hairy pits and vaginas though.

[ShoogarBear]

the sun will get bigger, turn red and then swallow the earths atmosphere in 1/2 billion years..................the clock is ticking.Fortunately, I plan to make a rocket ship, swaddle my son in a red cape, and send him off to a planet with a different-colored sun.

[Avitus1]

Fortunately, I plan to make a rocket ship, swaddle my son in a red cape, and send him off to a planet with a different-colored sun.

That gives me a great idea for a bad movie!

[Avitus1]

Atheists who really are at peace with their beliefs are rarely so hostile about it as peewee here is.

Some people just like to stir the pot.

[scott]

Looks like a cool movie, despite the director. We just got to keep Michael Bay and Jerry Bruckheimer away from it...

[Avitus1]

Could be worse could be directed by Kurt Wimmer, or Uwe Boll. Ugh...

[Tippecanoe]

Dude, you're dellusional. You give "credit to God" who you "know guided" you "to the right doctors with the knowledge" to help you overcome your illness???

That's a bullshit cop-out.
Keep in mind this: God wasn't the one who oversaw you back to health. It wasn't a winged angel. It wasn't Jesus in all his glory in the hospital with you.

Doctors. Human beings. Simple human beings that used the many, many years of research and expirementation. Simple human beings that used THEIR knowledge to help bring you back to health. And, you shit on them bringing you back from near death to give thanks to god????

It's a good thing that god likes you, and that he was there for you. Because, I'll tell you this: He doesn't like people in the Sudan, Ethiopia, Rawanda, Somalia, Guatemala, El Salvador, Honduras, Mozambique, India, Bangladesh, Tibet, Iraq, Afganistan, Yemen, Iran, Sri Lanka, Mongolia, and Malaysia just to name a few.

All these countries are suffering. People die every day. Children die at a rate of 5 every half hour. All these countries are lacking in modern medical care. All these countries are lacking scientists to lead the way. All these countries turn to their gods, and all their gods have cast a blind eye.

But, it's a good thing your god has a particular liking to Americans. It's a lucky break for you. I'm glad you can believe that bullshit. Good for you.

But, don't you for one second try to lecture me and tell me that deep down inside I believe in your pretentious, backward beliefs. I've never presumed to know what you believe. I'm at odds with what you believe, but I've never presumed to tell you what you believe.

Fuck you!!
I don't believe in your childish, selfish, vindictive god.

I never will.

well said my friend.

:toast

[peewee's lovechild]

EHJ was never asking you to believe in his God peewee, he was just sharing his experience. Yet again, there is no reason to get so angry with people about "our God." Spurstalk is a very diverse community. It wasn't until you started these last two threads that we've had these discussions (aside from one other one that I can remember..). We're a happy bunch that love basketball and love talking about movies, tacos, current events, NorCal's supposed blackness and a bunch of other assorted topics during the off-season. I'm surprised you haven't attacked SAButta's thread that asked for prayers yet. I respect your opinions, but not when they're spouted out for not reason. This was one of them.

You know, I've run out of words to describe your stupidity. Here's what EHJ wrote, verbatim:


Deep in your heart you believe, that's why you try so adamantly to explain away this wonderful existence and amazing universe as being an accident. It's cool, I've been through it myself.

That's the beef I had with EHJ. The previous beef I had with you guys is that I started a thread talking shit to someone else who has a troll named "GOD". You would know that if you pay attention. You, and all your other bible touting, self rightous, fellow christians decided to make it into a relgious revival. No one ever asked for that. All it was, was two people talking shit to each other. Then, the Holy Police tried to take over. I just responed in kind.

I'm not angry at you "believers". I just think that you're dellusional sheep that believe what someone, who happens to make A LOT of money ripping off said sheep, tells you to believe.

[peewee's lovechild]

"10,000 BC" looks pretty cool. Sabertooth tigers are the shit. Any movie with an accurate portrayal of them, I'll probably see. The maker of "Independence Day" and "The Day After Tomorrrow" tackling this idea, I don't see as a downside in this particular case. Though I could understand the skepticism. Let's hope Emmerich learned from flops like "The Day After Tomorrow" and "Godzilla", and turns this movie into something worth watching more than once. His "Stargate" film was something I enjoyed much.

In other movie news, I'm excited to see "Sunshine". Getting a chance to watch it this upcoming tuesday. Been anticipating it for awhile, or since I've seen the trailer at least. Not only looking forward to the superb special effects, but it looks like such a drama piece.

Peewee, if it makes you feel any better, I couldn't agree with you anymore. Actually believing in a "God" is a scary notion to me too, let alone attributing every advancement or every morsel of success to "him". Not quite in line with reality in my opinion, but to each their own. Some people have been convinced, or convinced themselves, there is a "God", to the point of no return. Not even worth talking about in many cases. Dealing with something that people are so emotionally attached to, fact and reason go out the door. Belief and faith are end-all-be-all. I'm sure you don't need to be told any of this, just sayin, I see where you're coming from.

Well said.

And, I can't wait for Sunshine too.
Danny Boyle is a great director

[peewee's lovechild]

That was a great post!!!!!

I'm still interested in hairy pits and vaginas though.

So am I.

[Ronaldo McDonald]

all u morons are trying to play tug-of-war without a rope.

[peewee's lovechild]

all u morons are trying to play tug-of-war without a rope.

:lol :lol

[ashbeeigh]

I'm not angry at you "believers". I just think that you're dellusional sheep that believe what someone, who happens to make A LOT of money ripping off said sheep, tells you to believe.


You need to look into how much those in ministry make. It's a lot less than you think. A lot less.

[peewee's lovechild]

You need to look into how much those in ministry make. It's a lot less than you think. A lot less.

Do you remember Jim and Tammy Baker??
She's still making money ripping off people in the name of Christ and God.

You need to see how much Phil Graham has made. How much Jerry Falwell has made. How much the Pope and all his cronies have made for thousands of years. How the Christian network and Pat Robertson's 700 Club have raped the poor and the elderly out of their hard earned money by making them fear their fates after death.

Yea, I'm sure some in the ministry are honest and have a modest living. But, that's a very small percentage. The majority have a lust for money that is unmatchable.

[Burn531]

That flick looks pretty cool.

[ashbeeigh]

Yea, I'm sure some in the ministry are honest and have a modest living. But, that's a very small percentage. The majority have a lust for money that is unmatchable.


You contradicted yourself. How am I supposed to believe you?


Phil Graham, John Hagee, Tammy Fay, etc. are the exception to the rule. Coming from a person considering ministry instead of getting a license in a professional field, I seriously am asking you to look up the salary of an average Evangelical pastor. Not a mega-church, on tv preaching every day, on tour, writing books, preacher. I'm talking, going to hospitals to be with members of their congregation, up at the middle of the night answering pastoral calls and being at their home church every day trying to find the budget to get air conditioning for their church. Look into it.

[E20]

He doesn't like people in the Sudan, Ethiopia, Rawanda, Somalia, Guatemala, El Salvador, Honduras, Mozambique, India, Bangladesh, Tibet, Iraq, Afganistan, Yemen, Iran, Sri Lanka, Mongolia, and Malaysia just to name a few.

Most of those countries aren't Christian. :lol

Where is Hegamboa? LMAO

[peewee's lovechild]

Most of those countries aren't Christian. :lol

Where is Hegamboa? LMAO

You are right, most of those aren't christian nations.
But, they also believe in a given god.
Christian or not, all these countries are in the same boat.

That is, worshipping and killing themselves for a god that apparently doesn't care.

[peewee's lovechild]

You contradicted yourself. How am I supposed to believe you?


Phil Graham, John Hagee, Tammy Fay, etc. are the exception to the rule. Coming from a person considering ministry instead of getting a license in a professional field, I seriously am asking you to look up the salary of an average Evangelical pastor. Not a mega-church, on tv preaching every day, on tour, writing books, preacher. I'm talking, going to hospitals to be with members of their congregation, up at the middle of the night answering pastoral calls and being at their home church every day trying to find the budget to get air conditioning for their church. Look into it.

First of all, how is that staement a contradiction??

Second, I thought you were going to "turn the other cheek" as you posted before??

Too hard for you to do, isn't it??
You feel this insatiable need to defend god, don't you?

Oh, well.

[1369]

peewee=boutons?

[peewee's lovechild]

peewee=boutons?

The only boutons I know about are the ones on my shirts . . . oh, shit, that's buttons.

No, don't know what a boutons is.

My bad.

[TheSanityAnnex]

Yea, I'm sure some in the ministry are honest and have a modest living. But, that's a very small percentage. The majority have a lust for money that is unmatchable.I don't argue religion, I don't see the point. But this made gave me a good laugh. Pastors and Ministers get in their line of work because of their lust for money. :lmao

[peewee's lovechild]

I don't argue religion, I don't see the point. But this made gave me a good laugh. Pastors and Ministers get in their line of work because of their lust for money. :lmao

Do you even know how much these fuckers get paid???

I'm not talking about the ultra low level guys.
Find out for yourself.

Oh yea, and all that great art that we have in the world, all the great sculptures, all the great churches and basilicas . . . . all those were paid mostly through the patronage of the church.

They continue to build them, spending millions.

Meanwhile, they get a big fat check for their troubles.

Why does god need a big ass fancy church anyway??
What's the point to that?

[TheSanityAnnex]

Do you even know how much these fuckers get paid???

Yeah, my Grandpa was a Lutheran Pastor for over 40 years, he didn't make jack shit.

[peewee's lovechild]

Yeah, my Grandpa was a Lutheran Pastor for over 40 years, he didn't make jack shit.

He should've joined Pat Robertson's group. He would've been a millionare.

I used to manage a bank a few years ago.
So, I know what I'm talking about when I say they get paid a shit loads.
We're talking over $230,000 a year.

There was this catholic priest who had over $3,000,000 in his bank account.

Your grandfather was a good man but he was an exception, not the rule.

[atxrocker]

i hope joel osteen dies a slow, painful death for being such a piece of shit. just thought this comment would be appropriate in this here thread.

[peewee's lovechild]

i hope joel osteen dies a slow, painful death for being such a piece of shit. just thought this comment would be appropriate in this here thread.

It is.

I hope so too.

Maybe I should get Midge to pray cancer on him.
Colon cancer would be appropriate.

[Extra Stout]

The median salary for a senior pastor in the United States is around $60,000.

[ashbeeigh]

Do you even know how much these fuckers get paid???

I'm not talking about the ultra low level guys.
Find out for yourself.

Oh yea, and all that great art that we have in the world, all the great sculptures, all the great churches and basilicas . . . . all those were paid mostly through the patronage of the church.

They continue to build them, spending millions.

Meanwhile, they get a big fat check for their troubles.

Why does god need a big ass fancy church anyway??
What's the point to that?

Have you been to a church service in more than 10 years? Mainstream pastors/ministers/priests etc. get paid through their conferences/dioceses whatever its called in their religion. Those churches you named, such as Saint Paul's are grand because of their history. Of course they were built through patronage of the church. Those patronages are rich! In San Antonio I go to University United Methodist Church. Have you seen that sucker? It's so huge they're building across the street because of their patronage and growth (which is the whole point of a church! Growth and ministry!)! That's because the congregation is rich! I don't like it, but that's just how it works. The long and short of having fancy churches is to keep up with Joneses. That's all it is. If one church has something the other has to have it.

The pastor doesn't get paid anymore or any less because the majority of his congregation makes more than 200,000 a year. It's all figured out through the Southwest Conference. There's nothing individual about it. He gets paid the same as someone who works in Poteet would. You're just so wrong about the money. Dead wrong.

And troubles? Yet again, seriously? Look into a Masters of Divinity program and see how much "trouble" it really is.

[Extra Stout]

If we include only large churches in urban/suburban areas, then the median is about $90,000.

[peewee's lovechild]

Have you been to a church service in more than 10 years? Mainstream pastors/ministers/priests etc. get paid through their conferences/dioceses whatever its called in their religion. Those churches you named, such as Saint Paul's are grand because of their history. Of course they were built through patronage of the church. Those patronages are rich! In San Antonio I go to University United Methodist Church. Have you seen that sucker? It's so huge they're building across the street because of their patronage and growth (which is the whole point of a church! Growth and ministry!)! That's because the congregation is rich! I don't like it, but that's just how it works. The long and short of having fancy churches is to keep up with Joneses. That's all it is. If one church has something the other has to have it.

The pastor doesn't get paid anymore or any less because the majority of his congregation makes more than 200,000 a year. It's all figured out through the Southwest Conference. There's nothing individual about it. He gets paid the same as someone who works in Poteet would. You're just so wrong about the money. Dead wrong.

And troubles? Yet again, seriously? Look into a Masters of Divinity program and see how much "trouble" it really is.

I seem to remember Jesus getting pissed at the people trying to make money off of other people going to visit the temple. Remember? He overturned tables owned by merchants. Jesus even critized and condemned the religious heads of the time (saducees, pharasies, scribes, etc.) for their lust of money and material things.

Making churches grand to "keep up with the Joneses" seems to be contrary to the teachings of Jesus Christ. Funny, I don't remember Jesus asking for a tithe in the scriptures. As a matter of fact, Jesus urged all his followers to abandon all Earthly possessions. Didn't you quote me the scripture saying just that?

Truth is, grand churches and all sorts of works of art were built and paid for by the leading churches at the time as a show of wealth. If you don't believe it . . . I suggest you pick up a history book or two.

Two more things:

1. As I mentioned before, I used to be a Bank Manager so I KNOW what I'm talking about when I say they make a lot of money. Believe it or not, they (all denominations) make quite a bit of money.

2. My father was, still is, a minister when I was a kid. So, I'm well versed in the scripture. I just made the choice to stop believing in that fantasy when I reached the age of reason.

[peewee's lovechild]

Oh, and Asheeigh, "for their troubles" is a sarcastic figure of speech.

I'm sorry I didn't clarify that for you.

I'll keep it in mind to knock it down a couple of intellectuall levels for you.

P.S. You keep thinking I'm attacking your personal church, far from it. I'm arguing against Christianity as a whole. I don't know why you feel you have to defend your particular denomination. I swear, if god really is as all powerful as you believe he is . . . he doesn't need you to speak up for him.

Christianity as a whole makes millions upon millions, if not billions, by fleecing their flock. If you deny that there is plenty of $$$$$ to be made through religion, then you really are delusional and shouldn't continue arguing this point.

[peewee's lovechild]

Archdioses pays $660 million to abouse victims:

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20070715/D8QD519G1.html

I wonder where they got all that money, hmmmmmm . . . .

[TheSanityAnnex]

Archdioses pays $660 million to abouse victims:

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20070715/D8QD519G1.html

I wonder where they got all that money, hmmmmmm . . . .Who cares where the money came from, its being donated to a good cause. Those poor boys had their asses reamed.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Dude, you're dellusional. You give "credit to God" who you "know guided" you "to the right doctors with the knowledge" to help you overcome your illness???

That's a bullshit cop-out.
Keep in mind this: God wasn't the one who oversaw you back to health. It wasn't a winged angel. It wasn't Jesus in all his glory in the hospital with you.

Doctors. Human beings. Simple human beings that used the many, many years of research and expirementation. Simple human beings that used THEIR knowledge to help bring you back to health. And, you shit on them bringing you back from near death to give thanks to god????

It's a good thing that god likes you, and that he was there for you. Because, I'll tell you this: He doesn't like people in the Sudan, Ethiopia, Rawanda, Somalia, Guatemala, El Salvador, Honduras, Mozambique, India, Bangladesh, Tibet, Iraq, Afganistan, Yemen, Iran, Sri Lanka, Mongolia, and Malaysia just to name a few.

All these countries are suffering. People die every day. Children die at a rate of 5 every half hour. All these countries are lacking in modern medical care. All these countries are lacking scientists to lead the way. All these countries turn to their gods, and all their gods have cast a blind eye.

But, it's a good thing your god has a particular liking to Americans. It's a lucky break for you. I'm glad you can believe that bullshit. Good for you.

But, don't you for one second try to lecture me and tell me that deep down inside I believe in your pretentious, backward beliefs. I've never presumed to know what you believe. I'm at odds with what you believe, but I've never presumed to tell you what you believe.

Fuck you!!
I don't believe in your childish, selfish, vindictive god.

I never will.

Boutons, I wasn't really trying to convert you, I just wanted to get a rise out of you for my own personal enjoyment. It was fun, so thanks.

In reality I'm not what you'd call religious. I like to think of myself as spiritual. I have a hard time with organized religion because it too often tries to force a set of beliefs on people and make everyone choose sides.

I really do believe in a higher power, a collective mind, God. I've seen too many things that have convinced me of that. I believe we're spiritually eternal, but I also I totally understand why people can't grasp that concept.

But I think it's a copout to discount the existence of a higher power because there is suffering in the world. Why does the existence of God mean that no one should age, suffer, get sick, or die a physical death? Your parents raised you, and sometime in your childhood I'm sure you got sick and suffered in some way that your mom and dad could have prevented. Your parents, your creators, were real even though they couldn't take away all your suffering. Overcoming obstacles helps us to achieve maturity in this life. Perhaps, on a grander scale, life, or lives on earth is just a means to help us achieve spiritual maturity. I'm not sure. But if you believe that life is just this quick physical lifetime, this blip in eternity, then it really would suck for all those people that have had a miserable life. I don't believe this is all there is. I've seen too many things that fall outside the lines of our current scientific understanding of things to believe that.

But if you're happy with that acceptance, then more power to you my friend.

[TheZackAttack!]

Christians don't believe the world is 6000 years old? the time and date is never given in Genesis. Adam never had a watch, from what I've read.

Ha, you just got served Peewee!

[Flo-Rida]

Dude, you're dellusional. You give "credit to God" who you "know guided" you "to the right doctors with the knowledge" to help you overcome your illness???

That's a bullshit cop-out.
Keep in mind this: God wasn't the one who oversaw you back to health. It wasn't a winged angel. It wasn't Jesus in all his glory in the hospital with you.

Doctors. Human beings. Simple human beings that used the many, many years of research and expirementation. Simple human beings that used THEIR knowledge to help bring you back to health. And, you shit on them bringing you back from near death to give thanks to god????

It's a good thing that god likes you, and that he was there for you. Because, I'll tell you this: He doesn't like people in the Sudan, Ethiopia, Rawanda, Somalia, Guatemala, El Salvador, Honduras, Mozambique, India, Bangladesh, Tibet, Iraq, Afganistan, Yemen, Iran, Sri Lanka, Mongolia, and Malaysia just to name a few.

All these countries are suffering. People die every day. Children die at a rate of 5 every half hour. All these countries are lacking in modern medical care. All these countries are lacking scientists to lead the way. All these countries turn to their gods, and all their gods have cast a blind eye.

But, it's a good thing your god has a particular liking to Americans. It's a lucky break for you. I'm glad you can believe that bullshit. Good for you.

But, don't you for one second try to lecture me and tell me that deep down inside I believe in your pretentious, backward beliefs. I've never presumed to know what you believe. I'm at odds with what you believe, but I've never presumed to tell you what you believe.

Fuck you!!
I don't believe in your childish, selfish, vindictive god.

I never will.
My friend i will be praying for u because you need it

[peewee's lovechild]

Ha, you just got served Peewee!

Served?

Right.

Neither you nor inconvertible know anything on this subject.

Christians believe that you can trace man's lineage all the way back to Adam (you know, the first male), therefore comming up with the number of years since man was first created.

Genisis never gives a number.
The bible never gives a number.
But, this is what Christians believe in nonetheless.

It is how they counter the theory of evolution.

Zack, make sure you know what you are talking about before you post.

[peewee's lovechild]

Boutons, I wasn't really trying to convert you, I just wanted to get a rise out of you for my own personal enjoyment. It was fun, so thanks.

In reality I'm not what you'd call religious. I like to think of myself as spiritual. I have a hard time with organized religion because it too often tries to force a set of beliefs on people and make everyone choose sides.

I really do believe in a higher power, a collective mind, God. I've seen too many things that have convinced me of that. I believe we're spiritually eternal, but I also I totally understand why people can't grasp that concept.

I can agree with that.
And, I respect that.




But I think it's a copout to discount the existence of a higher power because there is suffering in the world. Why does the existence of God mean that no one should age, suffer, get sick, or die a physical death? Your parents raised you, and sometime in your childhood I'm sure you got sick and suffered in some way that your mom and dad could have prevented. Your parents, your creators, were real even though they couldn't take away all your suffering. Overcoming obstacles helps us to achieve maturity in this life. Perhaps, on a grander scale, life, or lives on earth is just a means to help us achieve spiritual maturity. I'm not sure. But if you believe that life is just this quick physical lifetime, this blip in eternity, then it really would suck for all those people that have had a miserable life. I don't believe this is all there is. I've seen too many things that fall outside the lines of our current scientific understanding of things to believe that.

But if you're happy with that acceptance, then more power to you my friend.



I've never said that I don't believe in some kind of higher power. What I did say was that I don't believe in "God", that being the god that christians, muslims, and jews.

The reason I used the suffering argument is that the god that these three religions pray to is SUPPOSED to be a benevolent god. A god that is SUPPOSED to so loving and attentive, that he/she/it would relieve people of their pain and suffering. But, that god doesn't do that. That's why I pointed it out. And, each of the religions I mentioned believes that "god" is exlusive to them.

I agree with what you said. But, I never said that I don't believe in something else. I just don't believe in the human concept/construct of god.

I think we have more in common than you think.

[peewee's lovechild]

My friend i will be praying for u because you need it

Go ahead, there's no one listening.

[O-Factor]

Dude, you really don't know dick. You've been trying and trying and trying to get a rise out of Christians but YOU in all your ignorance will never change someone's faith on here. Get used to that. You want to be a atheist, go right ahead, but don't try and trample on peoples beliefs. You claim you know all about religion and christianity but you are just a little man with no depth in your soul or mind. Basically you are just trolling. It says alot about your character. You are just trying to pick on people of faith, people who have overcome obstacles and illnesses in their life because it gets you off. What a sick fuck...:nutkick:

[peewee's lovechild]

Dude, you really don't know dick. You've been trying and trying and trying to get a rise out of Christians but YOU in all your ignorance will never change someone's faith on here. Get used to that. You want to be a atheist, go right ahead, but don't try and trample on peoples beliefs. You claim you know all about religion and christianity but you are just a little man with no depth in your soul or mind. Basically you are just trolling. It says alot about your character. You are just trying to pick on people of faith, people who have overcome obstacles and illnesses in their life because it gets you off. What a sick fuck...:nutkick:

And yet, you've provided no facts whatsoever about how I "don't know dick". You ranted and said aboslutely nothing at all. And, how can I be trolling if I started both threads that dealt with "god".

If I'm "just a little man with no depth in my soul or mind", then call me out on it. Give some examples. Don't just flap the flesh that covers that orifice in your face.

You said abolutely nothing of substance.
Nothing at all.

[boutons_]

Ed, you spiritual fucktard, pull your head out of the clouds, or out of your ass, levitate back to earth, and note that this is my first post in this thread. But I enjoy your pre-occupation with me. You, Yoni, Aggie dickless, and Wild Cobra should start boutons_ appreciation/pre-occupation club.

[peewee's lovechild]

Ed, you spiritual fucktard, pull your head out of the clouds, or out of your ass, levitate back to earth, and note that this is my first post in this thread. But I enjoy your pre-occupation with me. You, Yoni, Aggie dickless, and Wild Cobra should start boutons_ appreciation/pre-occupation club.

It's fun that they think you are me.

[O-Factor]

And yet, you've provided no facts whatsoever about how I "don't know dick". You ranted and said aboslutely nothing at all. And, how can I be trolling if I started both threads that dealt with "god".

If I'm "just a little man with no depth in my soul or mind", then call me out on it. Give some examples. Don't just flap the flesh that covers that orifice in your face.

You said abolutely nothing of substance.
Nothing at all.


Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah. Thats all I hear from you. Oh Im sorry you don't like when someone tramples on what you belive??? Oh I get it, you think you only have the right to do that. I see. Ha, Maybe if I respected your opinion on the matter I would delve further. Im not here to argue my faith because its not up for argument. End of story. Nothing you can say will ever prove otherwise to me or other Christians. That being said Im not a perfect Christian......Go fuck yourself. :flipoff

[peewee's lovechild]

Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah. Thats all I hear from you. Oh Im sorry you don't like when someone tramples on what you belive??? Oh I get it, you think you only have the right to do that. I see. Ha, Maybe if I respected your opinion on the matter I would delve further. Im not here to argue my faith because its not up for argument. End of story. Nothing you can say will ever prove otherwise to me or other Christians. That being said Im not a perfect Christian......Go fuck yourself. :flipoff

Oh yea, you trampled on my beliefs by saying that I "don't know dick" and that I'm "a little man with no depth in my mind or soul".

Yeah, I'm hurt. I don't know how I'm going to get over it.

Oh yea, and you flipped me off.
I'm really hurt now.

What are you, like 14?

You won't argue your faith because you have nothing to argue about.
You're nothing.
You have no substance.

You're meaningless.

And, I've wasted enough time on such an insignificant peon such as you are.

[DarkReign]

This thread delivers not.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Ed, you spiritual fucktard, pull your head out of the clouds, or out of your ass, levitate back to earth, and note that this is my first post in this thread. But I enjoy your pre-occupation with me. You, Yoni, Aggie dickless, and Wild Cobra should start boutons_ appreciation/pre-occupation club.

Boutons, you should wait more than a minute before logging back in as PeeWee, it's a little more believable that way.

By the way, I'm still waiting for that autographed picture that I PM'ed you for at least 600 times. I hope you liked the mixed tape I mailed you a few weeks ago.


Call me!!

[peewee's lovechild]

Boutons, you should wait more than a minute before logging back in as PeeWee, it's a little more believable that way.

By the way, I'm still waiting for that autographed picture that I PM'ed you for at least 600 times. I hope you liked the mixed tape I mailed you a few weeks ago.


Call me!!

:)

Honestly, I don't know who this Boutons dude/chick is.

It's all good anyway.

[O-Factor]

Oh yea, you trampled on my beliefs by saying that I "don't know dick" and that I'm "a little man with no depth in my mind or soul".

Yeah, I'm hurt. I don't know how I'm going to get over it.

Oh yea, and you flipped me off.
I'm really hurt now.

What are you, like 14?

You won't argue your faith because you have nothing to argue about.
You're nothing.
You have no substance.

You're meaningless.

And, I've wasted enough time on such an insignificant peon such as you are.

Ah so you resorted to calling me 14. That's what people do on fourms when they have nothing else to say. "What are you man 10 years old" LOL, makes me laugh everytime. Hey man, Im really not sorry I hurt your feelings

[Spurminator]

Peewee doesn't use nearly enough unnecessary adjectives to be boutons.

[peewee's lovechild]

Ah so you resorted to calling me 14. That's what people do on fourms when they have nothing else to say. "What are you man 10 years old" LOL, makes me laugh everytime. Hey man, Im really not sorry I hurt your feelings

Flipping off someone because you can't make any type of argument is supposed to show a level of maturity above a 14 year old??

Yeah, you make so much sense.

Come to me with some substance, or risk sounding like the idiot you are.

[O-Factor]

Flipping off someone because you can't make any type of argument is supposed to show a level of maturity above a 14 year old??

Yeah, you make so much sense.

Come to me with some substance, or risk sounding like the idiot you are.


No it doesn't :flipoff

[L.I.T]

The intelligent discourse in this thread rivals what is in the Political Forum.




I still think that movie looks like a piece of crap.

[DarkReign]

Peewee doesn't use nearly enough unnecessary adjectives to be boutons.

Very astute observation.

Case closed.

[E20]

Let me close this thread with my final thoughts:

People should be able to follow whatever they want in peace as long as it isn't threatning another person or alienating others. And others shouldn't blast or critcize others beliefs for a minority of the groups ideaology; or just to say it's silly to believe in a God living in the sky, so you must be stupid. After all, Einstien and Newton were religous. My genius math teacher also made a good point: Math is so complex, yet everything falls correctly in order and everything fits; their are many ways to solve different problems and it all meshes correctly together. The universe is said to be chaotic, but everything is in perfect harmony to support and balance everything and this couldn't have happend by some random chance which mathematics can't even give the probability.

[peewee's lovechild]

Let me close this thread with my final thoughts:

People should be able to follow whatever they want in peace as long as it isn't threatning another person or alienating others. And others shouldn't blast or critcize others beliefs for a minority of the groups ideaology; or just to say it's silly to believe in a God living in the sky, so you must be stupid. After all, Einstien and Newton were religous. My genius math teacher also made a good point: Math is so complex, yet everything falls correctly in order and everything fits; their are many ways to solve different problems and it all meshes correctly together. The universe is said to be chaotic, but everything is in perfect harmony to support and balance everything and this couldn't have happend by some random chance which mathematics can't even give the probability.

The problem is that most religions do impose on others. And, there is a facade of peace, but a history of hate and exlusivity. But, oh well, whatever.

And, I could argue everything else that you pointed out, but I'm about to leave work and I just don't have the time.

[ashbeeigh]

The problem is that most religions do impose on others. And, there is a facade of peace, but a history of hate and exlusivity. But, oh well, whatever.

And, I could argue everything else that you pointed out, but I'm about to leave work and I just don't have the time.

That's the jist of what you've been arguing for a week, and no one is falling for your bullshit. Get off you atheistic high horse and realize different beliefs are what makes the world go around.

[cornbread]

I know the purpose of this thread really has nothing to do with the movie but I thought the trailer kicked ass.

[E20]

The problem is that most religions do impose on others. And, there is a facade of peace, but a history of hate and exlusivity. But, oh well, whatever.

And, I could argue everything else that you pointed out, but I'm about to leave work and I just don't have the time.
A minority do. You're assuming that everybody who follows a religon the only thing they talk about is their religon and try to impose it and that is the logical fallacy called hasty generlization.

[peewee's lovechild]

A minority do. You're assuming that everybody who follows a religon the only thing they talk about is their religon and try to impose it and that is the logical fallacy called hasty generlization.

Ok, I'll play your game.

Answer this:

Do Christians believe that their god is the only god? And, within Christianity, does each sect/denomination think that theirs is the only "true" Christian faith?

So, if you answer truthfully, the answer would be "yes". Having said that . . . that fact has historically made way for an ambivalent attitude towards other people of different faith. Because, why would they care about people that are damned to hell anyway??

One of the things I found extremely disturbing happened after 9/11. A friend of mine told me about a speech his pastor gave at his church after 9/11. The pastor told the entire church that it was time that America strike the fear of all-mighty god into the hearts of the godless heathens in the Middle East.

That's the shit I'm talking about.

Now, there are people that call themselves Christian that really don't give a shit about any of that and try to live and let live. But, these are people that can be classified as "non-practicing" christians. Those that have been so because their parents were christian because their parents were christian, and so on, and so on. You know what I'm talking about. Those that wear a cross pendant on their necklaces yet get drunk every weekend and fuck everything in sight. Those that have a tatoo of Jesus or the Virgen Mary and yet sell drugs to little kids.

I'm not talking about these people.

Those who are the true believers, those that believe in the rapture and that god will come down from the heavens to rid the earth of all evil men . . . those are the ones I critisize. They like to say words like peace, love, forgiveness, etc. But, they want nothing more than for the rapture to come at any second, even if that means that people who are not evil at all die because they are not believers of the christian faith.

This does not only apply to Christians, by a long shot. It applies all religions that portray the same attitude (Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Sikhs, etc.). The only benevolent religion that I can think of, and that has caught my interest somewhat, is that of Hinduism.

[peewee's lovechild]

That's the jist of what you've been arguing for a week, and no one is falling for your bullshit. Get off you atheistic high horse and realize different beliefs are what makes the world go around.

"no one is falling for your bullshit"

First of all, I don't give a shit you stupid bitch. I'm not out to "convert" people like those of your faith do on a constant basis.

Secondly, if you read all of this thread, as well as the "GOD" thread, you'll find that there are others who share my view.

Furthermore, I'm not atheist. I'm more of an agnostic. I don't believe in your god. I don't want to. I don't like organized religion. I believe that there is something more . . . but to characterize this "thing", whatever it may be, as something that is more like man, complete with emotions, is just ridiculous.

I don't give a shit what you think. But, if I don't agree with it, and if you're going to make a push for it, I'm going to call you out for it.

If you don't like it, you can stop responding. But, I don't think you will. I might be wrong on that, but I don't think you'll stop because you've been conditioned to protect and defend your god like if you were a soldier of god. And, that's pretty sad.

[Flo-Rida]

"no one is falling for your bullshit"

First of all, I don't give a shit you stupid bitch. I'm not out to "convert" people like those of your faith do on a constant basis.

Secondly, if you read all of this thread, as well as the "GOD" thread, you'll find that there are others who share my view.

Furthermore, I'm not atheist. I'm more of an agnostic. I don't believe in your god. I don't want to. I don't like organized religion. I believe that there is something more . . . but to characterize this "thing", whatever it may be, as something that is more like man, complete with emotions, is just ridiculous.

I don't give a shit what you think. But, if I don't agree with it, and if you're going to make a push for it, I'm going to call you out for it.

If you don't like it, you can stop responding. But, I don't think you will. I might be wrong on that, but I don't think you'll stop because you've been conditioned to protect and defend your god like if you were a soldier of god. And, that's pretty sad.
No my friend your sad you obviously dont know anything and you need to go to church Lord knows how much that would help you

[Extra Stout]

The problem is that most religions do impose on others. And, there is a facade of peace, but a history of hate and exlusivity. But, oh well, whatever.

And, I could argue everything else that you pointed out, but I'm about to leave work and I just don't have the time.
Is the problem religion, or just the humans practicing it?

Will humans really become more peaceful without religion, or will they find some other rationalization for bloodlust, hatred, and greed?

Didn't the 20th century teach us that we can do a whole heck of a lot of killing, with ideology in place of religion as the motivation?

[peewee's lovechild]

No my friend your sad you obviously dont know anything and you need to go to church Lord knows how much that would help you

Your do-rag is on too tight.

If you have something remotely intelligent to say, I encourage you.
But, you're just a dumb ass.

Get back to me when you come up with something intelligent and original to say.

[peewee's lovechild]

Is the problem religion, or just the humans practicing it?

Will humans really become more peaceful without religion, or will they find some other rationalization for bloodlust, hatred, and greed?

Didn't the 20th century teach us that we can do a whole heck of a lot of killing, with ideology in place of religion as the motivation?

I agree with what you said.
The humans practicing it are part of the problem.

And, there are plenty of reasons for humanity to lapse into violence in the absence of religion.

But, would you agree that religion has served as a conduit for people to express thier hate? There are plenty of examples of this throughout history. And, there continues to be examples of it today (Hindus v. Muslims, Muslims v. Christians, Muslims v. Jews, Christians v. Christian . . . Ireland, etc.).

There will always be differences between people that will lead to violence. But, religious differences, and the philosophies/doctrines they believe in, exploit these violent tendecies.

[L.I.T]

"no one is falling for your bullshit"

First of all, I don't give a shit you stupid bitch. I'm not out to "convert" people like those of your faith do on a constant basis.

Secondly, if you read all of this thread, as well as the "GOD" thread, you'll find that there are others who share my view.

Furthermore, I'm not atheist. I'm more of an agnostic. I don't believe in your god. I don't want to. I don't like organized religion. I believe that there is something more . . . but to characterize this "thing", whatever it may be, as something that is more like man, complete with emotions, is just ridiculous.

I don't give a shit what you think. But, if I don't agree with it, and if you're going to make a push for it, I'm going to call you out for it.

If you don't like it, you can stop responding. But, I don't think you will. I might be wrong on that, but I don't think you'll stop because you've been conditioned to protect and defend your god like if you were a soldier of god. And, that's pretty sad.


I was reading through the thread, mainly for entertainment purposes, and then came across this post.

Earlier in the thread you used the classic 'problem of evil' to refute the existence of God (or Gods as the case may be). Now, the basis of the using evil as a refutation of the existence of God is that God, by nature, must be infallible and good, good hence cannot allow evil to exist.

Which if I note, is a very human problem, good and evil are human constructs. Applying dualistic concepts to God is the application of human construct to what should be an unknowable being.

However, here you indicate that applying human concepts to a "thing" is...what were your words..."ridiculous" correct?

So, which is it? Is the problem of evil an effective contradiction to the existence of God, or is God/First Mover unknowable by humans, and as such concepts of dualism cannot be applicable?

Just curious, respond or don't at your leisure.

[Avitus1]

So yeah this movie looks like a rental.

[O-Factor]

"no one is falling for your bullshit"

First of all, I don't give a shit you stupid bitch. I'm not out to "convert" people like those of your faith do on a constant basis.

Secondly, if you read all of this thread, as well as the "GOD" thread, you'll find that there are others who share my view.

Furthermore, I'm not atheist. I'm more of an agnostic. I don't believe in your god. I don't want to. I don't like organized religion. I believe that there is something more . . . but to characterize this "thing", whatever it may be, as something that is more like man, complete with emotions, is just ridiculous.

I don't give a shit what you think. But, if I don't agree with it, and if you're going to make a push for it, I'm going to call you out for it.

If you don't like it, you can stop responding. But, I don't think you will. I might be wrong on that, but I don't think you'll stop because you've been conditioned to protect and defend your god like if you were a soldier of god. And, that's pretty sad.

Such hatred for Christianity. :madrun What did your daddy the minister rape you when you were a kid. Is that where it all stems from?????Yeah that it isn't it. All this hatred bottled up because of daddy.

"I don't give a shit what you think" Then don't. The fact that you repond to every repy on here tells us you DO give a shit. It just bugs you that there are Christians who dare challenge you. Then you call people your silly little names like "bitch, dumbass, etc." and then tell people they are not responding inteligently. Don't be a bitch man and grow the fuck up. You are one of the more childish people on here.

"if you don't like it then you can stop responding" Ha, spoken like true coward. What a sad petty person you are.


:frying:Hello peewee. Hello!!!!! Are you deaf? Nobody gives a shit what you think little peewee...

[peewee's lovechild]

I was reading through the thread, mainly for entertainment purposes, and then came across this post.

Earlier in the thread you used the classic 'problem of evil' to refute the existence of God (or Gods as the case may be). Now, the basis of the using evil as a refutation of the existence of God is that God, by nature, must be infallible and good, good hence cannot allow evil to exist.

Which if I note, is a very human problem, good and evil are human constructs. Applying dualistic concepts to God is the application of human construct to what should be an unknowable being.

However, here you indicate that applying human concepts to a "thing" is...what were your words..."ridiculous" correct?

So, which is it? Is the problem of evil an effective contradiction to the existence of God, or is God/First Mover unknowable by humans, and as such concepts of dualism cannot be applicable?

Just curious, respond or don't at your leisure.

I said that there was so much suffering going on, not evil. My whole point is that there was this great, all powerful, loving god . . . then why is there so much suffering. Why would this great and benevolent god allow the creatures that he created to suffer so much? What is his purpose?? Isn't he supposed to be a loving god? Would a loving god just sit there and watch his own creations suffer while they clamor to him?

You're right. Good and evil are human constructs. Have you ever read the bible. The Old Scriptures have god being happy, jealous, angry, sad, vengeful, and violent. The New Scriptures don't show that much in terms of emotional range, but he does get pissed off when Jesus dies (something that he knew was going to happen) and he changes the weather and creates an earthquake in response. These are all human emotions, human constructs that have also been attributed to god.

So, it is ridiculous to make god out to be this great and magnificent being when he acts just like a human . . . and he sometimes acts childish (if you don't worship me I shall banish you to hell).

I hope I explained myself.
If I didn't, I'm sure you'll let me know.

[peewee's lovechild]

Such hatred for Christianity. :madrun What did your daddy the minister rape you when you were a kid. Is that where it all stems from?????Yeah that it isn't it. All this hatred bottled up because of daddy.

"I don't give a shit what you think" Then don't. The fact that you repond to every repy on here tells us you DO give a shit. It just bugs you that there are Christians who dare challenge you. Then you call people your silly little names like "bitch, dumbass, etc." and then tell people they are not responding inteligently. Don't be a bitch man and grow the fuck up. You are one of the more childish people on here.

"if you don't like it then you can stop responding" Ha, spoken like true coward. What a sad petty person you are.


:frying:Hello peewee. Hello!!!!! Are you deaf? Nobody gives a shit what you think little peewee...


If nobody gives a shit, why are you still responding?
The funny thing is that you're a dumb fuck and you don't even know it.

Me calling people silly names?? Yea, you got me there. Score one for you. Good job. But, what do you call all those stupid little angry smilies and the fact that you flipped me off? You're the child little one.

Anyway, I started this thread so I can check on it all I want and post and respond whenever I want. Even if I didn't start the thread, I still reserve that right.

But, you still haven't countered with anything at all.
Nothing.
You continue to be insignificant.

You're nothing.

Ed Helicopter Jones, L.I.T., Extra Stout and others have come up with logical arguements and have all posted very interesting and valid points. Meanwhile, all you can do is flip the finger and post angry smilies.

I'm impressed.

Really, find something else to do before you make a bigger ass of yourself.

[TheZackAttack!]

If nobody gives a shit, why are you still responding?
The funny thing is that you're a dumb fuck and you don't even know it.

Me calling people silly names?? Yea, you got me there. Score one for you. Good job. But, what do you call all those stupid little angry smilies and the fact that you flipped me off? You're the child little one.

Anyway, I started this thread so I can check on it all I want and post and respond whenever I want. Even if I didn't start the thread, I still reserve that right.

But, you still haven't countered with anything at all.
Nothing.
You continue to be insignificant.

You're nothing.

Ed Helicopter Jones, L.I.T., Extra Stout and others have come up with logical arguements and have all posted very interesting and valid points. Meanwhile, all you can do is flip the finger and post angry smilies.

I'm impressed.

Really, find something else to do before you make a bigger ass of yourself.

Dude, GET A GRIP. Sorry your Pop raped you.

[O-Factor]

If nobody gives a shit, why are you still responding?
The funny thing is that you're a dumb fuck and you don't even know it.

Me calling people silly names?? Yea, you got me there. Score one for you. Good job. But, what do you call all those stupid little angry smilies and the fact that you flipped me off? You're the child little one.

Anyway, I started this thread so I can check on it all I want and post and respond whenever I want. Even if I didn't start the thread, I still reserve that right.

But, you still haven't countered with anything at all.
Nothing.
You continue to be insignificant.

You're nothing.

Ed Helicopter Jones, L.I.T., Extra Stout and others have come up with logical arguements and have all posted very interesting and valid points. Meanwhile, all you can do is flip the finger and post angry smilies.

I'm impressed.

Really, find something else to do before you make a bigger ass of yourself.

:lmao, Its funny, this insignificant person I am sure did get your panties in a wad. EVERYTHING I told you in my previous post, you are repeating, or rather copying. Ahem...This is you in a nutshell :cry "No, you stop responding, No you are a child, you flipped me off, you are nothing, quit it" :dramaquee Thats you...thats what you sound like. So basicaly you want to berate people for being Christian, talk shit to them and call them names, whatever, but you don't want anyone to come back and berate you. Thats what's ideal for you right? :nope

And in my posts I will use smily faces whenever the fuck I want. :loser :nutkick: :idiot :owned :ihit :fight :flag: :D
I think I'll use them more often now.
And yeah I am trying to come off as an ass towards you, but I fear I may never be as big as one as you are. :(

So Im nothing and your an asshole. At least we have our titles now.

[atlfan25]

I said that there was so much suffering going on, not evil. My whole point is that there was this great, all powerful, loving god . . . then why is there so much suffering. Why would this great and benevolent god allow the creatures that he created to suffer so much? What is his purpose?? Isn't he supposed to be a loving god? Would a loving god just sit there and watch his own creations suffer while they clamor to him?

You're right. Good and evil are human constructs. Have you ever read the bible. The Old Scriptures have god being happy, jealous, angry, sad, vengeful, and violent. The New Scriptures don't show that much in terms of emotional range, but he does get pissed off when Jesus dies (something that he knew was going to happen) and he changes the weather and creates an earthquake in response. These are all human emotions, human constructs that have also been attributed to god.

So, it is ridiculous to make god out to be this great and magnificent being when he acts just like a human . . . and he sometimes acts childish (if you don't worship me I shall banish you to hell).

I hope I explained myself.
If I didn't, I'm sure you'll let me know.
Well because I feel like being devil's advocate for a moment I will respond. Why does the christian God allow suffering? I guess that would be assuming people want a God that controls what they think and do. That would be the only way to insure there is no suffering. So what do I think a christians response to the the question of why would God just sit there and let it happen? Because he gave us free will and he understands that true judgment comes in the next life.

But what you seem to be saying with all that is that you don't believe word for word how God is and acts based on what the Bible says. I would agree since a lot of it seems to simply be human interpretation of what they believed to be God way back in those times. Since he gave us free will it is illogical that he would interfere with us as much as it is stated in the Bible.

[peewee's lovechild]

Dude, GET A GRIP. Sorry your Pop raped you.

Yea, that was witty.
I don't know how to come back from that one.

[peewee's lovechild]

:lmao, Its funny, this insignificant person I am sure did get your panties in a wad. EVERYTHING I told you in my previous post, you are repeating, or rather copying. Ahem...This is you in a nutshell :cry "No, you stop responding, No you are a child, you flipped me off, you are nothing, quit it" :dramaquee Thats you...thats what you sound like. So basicaly you want to berate people for being Christian, talk shit to them and call them names, whatever, but you don't want anyone to come back and berate you. Thats what's ideal for you right? :nope

And in my posts I will use smily faces whenever the fuck I want. :loser :nutkick: :idiot :owned :ihit :fight :flag: :D
I think I'll use them more often now.
And yeah I am trying to come off as an ass towards you, but I fear I may never be as big as one as you are. :(

So Im nothing and your an asshole. At least we have our titles now.

A very intelligent retort.

And, if you can actually read (because your talking with your head up your ass) you will see that I'm talking about ALL organized religions.

So, yea, respond with taunts all you want . . . post cute little smilies all you want . . . don't say anything remotely intelligent . . . it's your perogative.

I'm done with you now.
I'll leave you to respond with some sort of nonsense.

[peewee's lovechild]

Well because I feel like being devil's advocate for a moment I will respond. Why does the christian God allow suffering? I guess that would be assuming people want a God that controls what they think and do. That would be the only way to insure there is no suffering. So what do I think a christians response to the the question of why would God just sit there and let it happen? Because he gave us free will and he understands that true judgment comes in the next life.

But what you seem to be saying with all that is that you don't believe word for word how God is and acts based on what the Bible says. I would agree since a lot of it seems to simply be human interpretation of what they believed to be God way back in those times. Since he gave us free will it is illogical that he would interfere with us as much as it is stated in the Bible.

I can agree with most of that.

It all comes down to free will and the "true judgement" that comes after death. Why give people free will and them condem them for what they do with it? And, why live your entire life here on Earth if it really doesn't matter because there is another member's only destination?

These are only some of the problems I have with religious doctrine/philosophy.

But, really, my biggest problem is: Why would a god that is supposed to be so benevolent, so loving, be so willing to let people suffer. I've never been given a concrete answer to that. The answer that god is testing people is a complete cop out. People are not meant to suffer. It is irrational to think that people will develop a sense of loyalty and love to someone that makes them suffer. "Free Will" doesn't explain suffering. Millions upon millions of people suffer in this world through absolutely no fault of their own. Why would god just sit back and let this happen if he truly loves his children?

And, just to make it clear, this applies to all the major religions of the world. They all think they have the only "true" god. And, they all believe that they are the exclusive chosen people of god, which makes it easier for them to be apathetic towards people who are not part of their faith.

[O-Factor]

A very intelligent retort.

And, if you can actually read (because your talking with your head up your ass) you will see that I'm talking about ALL organized religions.

So, yea, respond with taunts all you want . . . post cute little smilies all you want . . . don't say anything remotely intelligent . . . it's your perogative.

I'm done with you now.
I'll leave you to respond with some sort of nonsense.

Oh no peewee's done with me. I guess you've gone ahead and put me in my place then. All I've come away with from you is that you are just a little bitch of a man who can't take it when people talk shit back to you. You want to talk shit, but you don't want to take it. Thats fine if you are weak and all.


Oh, and here are some more smiles since you love them so much
:pctoss :corn: :soapbox: :stirpot: :monkey :cuss :hang :angel :bking :makemyday

[L.I.T]

I can agree with most of that.

It all comes down to free will and the "true judgement" that comes after death. Why give people free will and them condem them for what they do with it? And, why live your entire life here on Earth if it really doesn't matter because there is another member's only destination?

These are only some of the problems I have with religious doctrine/philosophy.

But, really, my biggest problem is: Why would a god that is supposed to be so benevolent, so loving, be so willing to let people suffer. I've never been given a concrete answer to that. The answer that god is testing people is a complete cop out. People are not meant to suffer. It is irrational to think that people will develop a sense of loyalty and love to someone that makes them suffer. "Free Will" doesn't explain suffering. Millions upon millions of people suffer in this world through absolutely no fault of their own. Why would god just sit back and let this happen if he truly loves his children?

And, just to make it clear, this applies to all the major religions of the world. They all think they have the only "true" god. And, they all believe that they are the exclusive chosen people of god, which makes it easier for them to be apathetic towards people who are not part of their faith.

I'm going to speak in a broader sense, ie the concept of God, as opposed to grounding this in one specific doctrine since that can get messy and a tad confusing. However, the Buddhism, Jainism and Zoroastrianism have some concrete explanations for the world as it is. There are a variety of philosophical explanations for suffering and the continued existence of suffering.

But again, since you bring up the Problem of Evil as your primary refutation of the existence of God, I'm going to have to focus on that.

I'm surprised that you continue to bring up the application of concepts such as love, suffering and duality to a being that, as you previously mentioned, is supposedly unknowable. Do you see the incredible irony there? If, as you say, God is unknowable, then how can you then argue that suffering means that God does not exist, or that God is 'not benevolent'? In a previous post, you brought up Old and New Testament examples of God behaving in a human way to say that God is then not all-good and benevolent, but capricious and vengeful. Ok, however, you are falling into the anthropomorphic trap, the same then if you take the Bible at face value. If you are unwilling to attribute concepts such as love and benevolence on the basis that he's unknowable, why then are you so quick to attribute concepts such as capriciousness, anger and vengefulness to God?

Ultimately, this is probably the simplest contradiction to the problem of evil: what constitutes evil? Is suffering evil? Why then is suffering evil. From our vantage point, disease, poverty all these concepts of suffering, are called evil, but are they really evil? Should they have been averted? A natural disaster here, a death there, in the short term looks bad, horrible, but is it necessary evil and should it have been prevented?

IF God is an omnipotent and unknowable being, why then are human sufferings and frailties attributed to God's lack of intervention? We are arguing from a human perspective, replete with human constructs of the universe (here I'm bringing in another area of study, excuse me). It is much like, attributing human expressions and emotions to non-human animals; it's not something to be done.

Anyway, I can continue to argue against the problem of evil for days on end. But, don't have the time. However, I did want to ask one thing, why do you attribute the concept of a one true God to all religions on the planet? Buddhism, for example, is open to the concept of different paths being taken to achieve God. The Catholic Church actually has a doctrine that is open to the idea that people can take different doctrinal paths to achieve 'Heaven' (naturally though, they think their path is the best). Be careful to not confuse human doctrinal paths to 'Heaven'/Enlightenment/Nirvana as evidence against the existence of God. The evidence is many religions espousing God can be construed, not as a refutation of God, but as evidence that a form of a Supreme Being does exist.

[peewee's lovechild]

I'm going to speak in a broader sense, ie the concept of God, as opposed to grounding this in one specific doctrine since that can get messy and a tad confusing. However, the Buddhism, Jainism and Zoroastrianism have some concrete explanations for the world as it is. There are a variety of philosophical explanations for suffering and the continued existence of suffering.

But again, since you bring up the Problem of Evil as your primary refutation of the existence of God, I'm going to have to focus on that.

I'm surprised that you continue to bring up the application of concepts such as love, suffering and duality to a being that, as you previously mentioned, is supposedly unknowable. Do you see the incredible irony there? If, as you say, God is unknowable, then how can you then argue that suffering means that God does not exist, or that God is 'not benevolent'? In a previous post, you brought up Old and New Testament examples of God behaving in a human way to say that God is then not all-good and benevolent, but capricious and vengeful. Ok, however, you are falling into the anthropomorphic trap, the same then if you take the Bible at face value. If you are unwilling to attribute concepts such as love and benevolence on the basis that he's unknowable, why then are you so quick to attribute concepts such as capriciousness, anger and vengefulness to God?

Ultimately, this is probably the simplest contradiction to the problem of evil: what constitutes evil? Is suffering evil? Why then is suffering evil. From our vantage point, disease, poverty all these concepts of suffering, are called evil, but are they really evil? Should they have been averted? A natural disaster here, a death there, in the short term looks bad, horrible, but is it necessary evil and should it have been prevented?

IF God is an omnipotent and unknowable being, why then are human sufferings and frailties attributed to God's lack of intervention? We are arguing from a human perspective, replete with human constructs of the universe (here I'm bringing in another area of study, excuse me). It is much like, attributing human expressions and emotions to non-human animals; it's not something to be done.

Anyway, I can continue to argue against the problem of evil for days on end. But, don't have the time. However, I did want to ask one thing, why do you attribute the concept of a one true God to all religions on the planet? Buddhism, for example, is open to the concept of different paths being taken to achieve God. The Catholic Church actually has a doctrine that is open to the idea that people can take different doctrinal paths to achieve 'Heaven' (naturally though, they think their path is the best). Be careful to not confuse human doctrinal paths to 'Heaven'/Enlightenment/Nirvana as evidence against the existence of God. The evidence is many religions espousing God can be construed, not as a refutation of God, but as evidence that a form of a Supreme Being does exist.

You have some very good and poignant points there.

However, I think you misunderstand me. I'm pointing out the fallacy that the major religions of the world believe in. Which, in turn, is exactly the argument you are making. I'm not saying that the presence of evil is proof that god doesn't exist. I'm pointing out the irony that the major religions say that god is benevolent and all loving, yet he insists on letting people suffer. That is the irony I have been pointing out, and that you have actually been agreeing to.

I agree with the point that you brought up on Buddhism, Jainism, Zoroastrianism (you can even include Taoism there). And, if you go back a couple of posts, you can read that I excluded Buddhism and like minded religions from the arguement. I have pointed out that I'm actually comfortable with Buddhism, and I even like some of the Taoist philosophy, because of it's stance on unconditional love and peace. But, neither of these religions have a true deity as the other major religions of the world. This is probably why they can afford to be so benevolent.

You have great points, however I think you misconstrue what I'm saying.

[ATRAIN]

You have some very good and poignant points there.

However, I think you misunderstand me. I'm pointing out the fallacy that the major religions of the world believe in. Which, in turn, is exactly the argument you are making. I'm not saying that the presence of evil is proof that god doesn't exist. I'm pointing out the irony that the major religions say that god is benevolent and all loving, yet he insists on letting people suffer. That is the irony I have been pointing out, and that you have actually been agreeing to.

I agree with the point that you brought up on Buddhism, Jainism, Zoroastrianism (you can even include Taoism there). And, if you go back a couple of posts, you can read that I excluded Buddhism and like minded religions from the arguement. I have pointed out that I'm actually comfortable with Buddhism, and I even like some of the Taoist philosophy, because of it's stance on unconditional love and peace. But, neither of these religions have a true deity as the other major religions of the world. This is probably why they can afford to be so benevolent.

You have great points, however I think you misconstrue what I'm saying.

Well even though I wanted to stay out of this conversation, I have been attending a bible study and in the study book there was a chapter on this. Basically it states that the WORLD we live in today is being run by guess who..........satan. During the time of Adam and Eve it was a paradise without sickness and death. They were supposed to live forever, but what happened, well we all know and with their original sin, we as the sons of adam inherited their sins and satan proving that we humans and our free will can be corrupted, so satan inherited the earth and has been trying to push our faith away and test us. It isnt until the end of this system and as read in revelations that satan will be tossed into the abyss, and we will once again have paradise. Im not preaching to anyone or trying to change what anyone believes in, just wanted to throw my 2 cents out there.

[peewee's lovechild]

Well even though I wanted to stay out of this conversation, I have been attending a bible study and in the study book there was a chapter on this. Basically it states that the WORLD we live in today is being run by guess who..........satan. During the time of Adam and Eve it was a paradise without sickness and death. They were supposed to live forever, but what happened, well we all know and with their original sin, we as the sons of adam inherited their sins and satan proving that we humans and our free will can be corrupted, so satan inherited the earth and has been trying to push our faith away and test us. It isnt until the end of this system and as read in revelations that satan will be tossed into the abyss, and we will once again have paradise. Im not preaching to anyone or trying to change what anyone believes in, just wanted to throw my 2 cents out there.

That would imply that god sent Satan down to earth to screw around with us. Once again, why would an all-loving, benevolent god want to do that to the creatures he created and loves so much. It just doesn't make sense.

Do you have any kids?? If you do, and even if you don't you can visualize this, would you have them live with a group of murderers, pedophiles, and sociopaths. I expect the answer would be no. That's the jist of what you just wrote.

God so loved his children that he sent Satan to torture them?

It just doesn't add up.

And, this whole Adam thing . . . about him sinning and therefore we inherit his sin and suffer because of it. How is that just?? Once again, would you pass judgement on your children the same way?? Would you be comfortable with people treating your children poorly because of something you did?? No, of course you wouldn't. It's a sorry explanation for the existence of suffering.

It doesn't make any sense.

[ATRAIN]

That would imply that god sent Satan down to earth to screw around with us. Once again, why would an all-loving, benevolent god want to do that to the creatures he created and loves so much. It just doesn't make sense.

Do you have any kids?? If you do, and even if you don't you can visualize this, would you have them live with a group of murderers, pedophiles, and sociopaths. I expect the answer would be no. That's the jist of what you just wrote.

God so loved his children that he sent Satan to torture them?

It just doesn't add up.

And, this whole Adam thing . . . about him sinning and therefore we inherit his sin and suffer because of it. How is that just?? Once again, would you pass judgement on your children the same way?? Would you be comfortable with people treating your children poorly because of something you did?? No, of course you wouldn't. It's a sorry explanation for the existence of suffering.

It doesn't make any sense.

Satan was an angel, he was envious of God and hated that adam and eve did not worship him instead of god. He wasnt sent here, he came here to go up against god and prove that we could lose our faith. Adam and eve ate from the tree of knowledge that was forbidden, so they inherited death and sickness, but your forgetting the equalizer here. Jesus Christ the son of god was sent here to serve as a sacrifice for OUR sins that we inherited from Adam and Eve. Through his sacrifice we have a chance to live in paradise. You said would I be comfortable for people treating my kids poorly for something that I did, well I wouldnt want it to happen but the fact is it does happen.

[peewee's lovechild]

Satan was an angel, he was envious of God and hated that adam and eve did not worship him instead of god. He wasnt sent here, he came here to go up against god and prove that we could lose our faith. Adam and eve ate from the tree of knowledge that was forbidden, so they inherited death and sickness, but your forgetting the equalizer here. Jesus Christ the son of god was sent here to serve as a sacrifice for OUR sins that we inherited from Adam and Eve. Through his sacrifice we have a chance to live in paradise. You said would I be comfortable for people treating my kids poorly for something that I did, well I wouldnt want it to happen but the fact is it does happen.

What you're saying has a familiar ring, are you a Jehova's Witness?

Anyway, using that rationale:

God creates Satan the Angel.
Satan get's jealous.
Satan convinces Eve to eat the apple, and Eve does the same to Adam.
Then all hell breaks loose and Jesus, God's son, has to die to equalize everything.

Couple of things here using that rationale:

Then, it's all God's fault because he created Satan the Angel with "feelings" and therefore he had the ability to get "jealous".

It's also God's fault, and him being extremely irrational, because he made a tree in the middle of "Paradise" that produced a fruit that was so irresistable that Adam & Eve were bound to fail.

Still doesn't make sense.

How 'bout you answer this question:

When did Satan come to Earth?
At what point was he sent to Earth to create suffering?
And, why didn't God just stop him, if he's all powerful and all that stuff?

[Avitus1]

Still looks like a rental to me.

[peewee's lovechild]

Still looks like a rental to me.

:lol :lol

I actually think it will be pretty good.

But, as someone else pointed out at the onset of this thread . . . cave girls with no hairy pussies and armpits just isn't realistic.

[E20]

Ok, I'll play your game.

Answer this:

Do Christians believe that their god is the only god? And, within Christianity, does each sect/denomination think that theirs is the only "true" Christian faith?

So, if you answer truthfully, the answer would be "yes". Having said that . . . that fact has historically made way for an ambivalent attitude towards other people of different faith. Because, why would they care about people that are damned to hell anyway??

One of the things I found extremely disturbing happened after 9/11. A friend of mine told me about a speech his pastor gave at his church after 9/11. The pastor told the entire church that it was time that America strike the fear of all-mighty god into the hearts of the godless heathens in the Middle East.

That's the shit I'm talking about.

Now, there are people that call themselves Christian that really don't give a shit about any of that and try to live and let live. But, these are people that can be classified as "non-practicing" christians. Those that have been so because their parents were christian because their parents were christian, and so on, and so on. You know what I'm talking about. Those that wear a cross pendant on their necklaces yet get drunk every weekend and fuck everything in sight. Those that have a tatoo of Jesus or the Virgen Mary and yet sell drugs to little kids.

I'm not talking about these people.

Those who are the true believers, those that believe in the rapture and that god will come down from the heavens to rid the earth of all evil men . . . those are the ones I critisize. They like to say words like peace, love, forgiveness, etc. But, they want nothing more than for the rapture to come at any second, even if that means that people who are not evil at all die because they are not believers of the christian faith.

This does not only apply to Christians, by a long shot. It applies all religions that portray the same attitude (Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Sikhs, etc.). The only benevolent religion that I can think of, and that has caught my interest somewhat, is that of Hinduism.

Let me state that I am not Christian.

Let me also state another fact: A minority percentage of every religous group is on the extreme side of there beliefs. They believe what they want, what I mean by that they will neglect part of their beliefs and glorify and spread another, you don't seem to get that.

Most Christian denominations, albiet the Mormons, all have the same concept, but choose to worship in a different way and I'm pretty sure a majority of Christians think that no matter what denomination of Christianity you are, you are Christian nonetheless.

For the part in bold, theyr'e non-practicing, as you said so, there is no point in bringing them up.

For the second part in bold, the one's screaming for the advent of Christ and hailing for the apocalypse are far from good Christians. In fact, doesn't it say in the bible that nobody knows when the resurrection is coming, as does the Torah and the Quran? So, the ones with gurantees about raptures aren't they putting themselves on the same level as their own God? And wouldn't that be blasphemous? And the ones casting out judgements on other people, doesn't that put them on the same level as God? And wouldn't that be blasphemous? Because doesn't it say in the Bible that God is the judge of every man and no one else, as does the Torah and the Quran? So, how are they the true believers? I guess there is a new rule that gives these priests this power or otherwise they're their opting with their own free will to astray from there own teachings. It always occured to me that Chrisitan teachings focused on doing good to others whether the person was Christian or not, same with the other Abrahamic religons, so I don't know what teachings you are being exposed to. A follower doesn't neccassarly correlate to the core and principles of the ideaology.

And I'm assuming you are atheiest, so I'll use the same fallacy as you are:
All Atheists put down/mock other religons and emphatically impose Science on religon.

Hinduism has commited it's acts of violence as well. I'm pretty sure some hardcore radical Hindu's f'ed up some Muslims back in the day.

[peewee's lovechild]

And I'm assuming you are atheiest, so I'll use the same fallacy as you are:
All Atheists put down/mock other religons and emphatically impose Science on religon.

Hinduism has commited it's acts of violence as well. I'm pretty sure some hardcore radical Hindu's f'ed up some Muslims back in the day.



You need to read all of my posts.
You'll see that I've already covered these things.