You know, with 4 titles...

[dknights411]

...you would think that we would have complete trust with the Spurs FO. Oh well, there's no pleasing everyone, I guess.

[Budkin]

Not when they just give shit away for nothing. I don't have blind faith in anything.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

20 titles wouldn't make them free of criticism for stupid ass trades like the one they made today.

[Marcus Bryant]

Could have been more...

[Nathan Explosion]

I love that these people think they know more than the best GM and coach in the NBA. Go figure.

[Marcus Bryant]

So what makes this the bestest trade ever?

[Nathan Explosion]

I didn't say it was the best trade ever. But that doesn't make it the worst. Who's to say that Butler was going to pan out? Who's to say that Scola would play for the Spurs.

Remember, you all keep saying that it's the worst trade ever. Since you started the argument, you have to back it up. You have to prove you know more than the Spurs FO.

Well, now would be a good place to start. What makes you more qualified than the Spurs FO when judging talent, and what would you have done that would have made this team better this season, and season beyond next? How would you land a player that would significantly improve the Spurs for many years to come? And which GMs would you convince to take our garbage for their gold?

Inquiring minds want to know.

[Marcus Bryant]

Let's shut this forum down now.

Obviously the deal was motivated by financial considerations. Scola's been regarded as NBA ready and an impact player in a number of articles quoting NBA scouts. He's played extremely well in the ACB league as well as in the Olympics.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

I love that these people think they know more than the best GM and coach in the NBA. Go figure.

I love the people that think this is the greatest trade ever, particularly when it gives a division rival a starter and the first big off the bench. Go figure.

[Switchman]

Seeing as none of you are actually working in the NBA, I'll trust Pops and the 4 time champion FO's decision.

[Nathan Explosion]

Seeing as none of you are actually working in the NBA, I'll trust Pops and the 4 time champion FO's decision.

As do I. It's easy to be an armchair GM. It's not so easy when it's your job to actually do these things, and it's your ass on the line if you screw it up.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

No one in the front office's ass is on the line. As long as they make Holt money they keep their jobs. If they ever fuck up a player acquisition, they spin him as some sort of malcontent, the Express News passes on the story (this would be your spin, spinboy), and San Antonio de Bexar laps it all up.

[Nathan Explosion]

No one in the front office's ass is on the line. As long as they make Holt money they keep their jobs. If they ever fuck up a player acquisition, they spin him as some sort of malcontent, the Express News passes on the story (this would be your spin, spinboy), and San Antonio de Bexar laps it all up.

My spin would be the first one, to call the guy a cancer. If you're going to try and insult me, at least get it right.

However, again, these guys get paid lots of money to make tough decisions. When it's not your money, the job is easy. But when you have to make the call, and negotiate the deals, the job becomes a pressure cooker.

How many of us would be able to do at least one significant trade in the NBA, for any team? I don't think a single one here could do it.

[Mr. Body]

More lipstick on the pig, Nathan.

[gaKNOW!blee]

I cant wait till the Spurs win 57-58 games next year and make a run deep in the playoffs and perhaps a title. And if they lose in the WCF to the Mavs,Suns, or Jazz it wont be because we lost 2 players that havent even fucking played for the Spurs.


So everyone quit acting like you are smarter than the front office and quit your damn complaining. The Spurs will be fine.

[Mr. Body]

I cant wait till the Spurs win 57-58 games next year and make a run deep in the playoffs and perhaps a title. And if they lose in the WCF to the Mavs,Suns, or Jazz it wont be because we lost 2 players that havent even fucking played for the Spurs.


So everyone quit acting like you are smarter than the front office and quit your damn complaining. The Spurs will be fine.

Read a little. No one's saying it will be a major impact next year. Down the line it most certainly will be.

[Nathan Explosion]

I cant wait till the Spurs win 57-58 games next year and make a run deep in the playoffs and perhaps a title. And if they lose in the WCF to the Mavs,Suns, or Jazz it wont be because we lost 2 players that havent even fucking played for the Spurs.


So everyone quit acting like you are smarter than the front office and quit your damn complaining. The Spurs will be fine.

What I want to know is, how many of these people, who are complaining now, were calling for a trade at midseason and then bitching when it didn't happen?

And how would you use Scola and Butler to make this team, a team that lost 4 games the entire playoffs (including a sweep in the Finals), much better now and in the future?

[Nathan Explosion]

Read a little. No one's saying it will be a major impact next year. Down the line it most certainly will be.

Really. How so? Everyone keeps saying down the line, but no one knows now do they?

If Butler bombs, what then? If Scola never shows, then what? The Spurs have tons of assets overseas. Losing these two guys won't do anything to make this team better long term, or short term.

And people are saying that this trade costs the Spurs the title next year, so yes there are people claiming it will impact the team this year.

[Marcus Bryant]

I cant wait till the Spurs win 57-58 games next year and make a run deep in the playoffs and perhaps a title. And if they lose in the WCF to the Mavs,Suns, or Jazz it wont be because we lost 2 players that havent even fucking played for the Spurs.


So everyone quit acting like you are smarter than the front office and quit your damn complaining. The Spurs will be fine.

Whether or not Scola was a part of past championships has no relevance for his current value or impact on this Spurs' team.

[Mr. Body]

Really. How so? Everyone keeps saying down the line, but no one knows now do they?


Do you see any other salable assets on this team? Neither do I.

[vander]

Seeing as none of you are actually working in the NBA, I'll trust Pops and the 4 time champion FO's decision.

we have 4 championships because of the 97 NBA draft lottery, don't fool yourself. the FO hasn't engineered any of the spurs success.

LA went out and GOT shaq and kobe
Detroit went out and GOT just about every player on their championship team
Miami made that huge trade and were rewarded with a title

all those other Front offices BUILT their teams

the Spurs had TD fall in their lap and lucked out with Manu, TP was their only successful first round pick in the last 9 years. 1/9 isn't anything special.

this was a pathetic, cost cutting, arrogant move. a total snub to us fans

[Nathan Explosion]

The Spurs have built a culture of winning around this team. You know, it seems that every player that comes here has a career year with the Spurs. Where would Stephen Jackson be without the Spurs? Hedo turned his Spurs tenure into a fat contract with the Magic. Barry looks much better now than he did in Seattle, what with his two rings and all.

Vaughn all of a sudden is a heady backup, Finley a great addition with his timely shooting. And everyone forgets Horry, owner of 7 rings, including two with the Spurs. But wait, I guess everyone forgets about shots like the one against the Pistons in Game 5.

Yep, this front office doesn't have a clue what it's doing.

[J.T.]

Pop said it best. The reason we have four titles is "David Robinson followed by Tim Duncan."

Fuck the FO.

This is almost as bad the day we lost Jack.

[vander]

The Spurs have built a culture of winning around this team. You know, it seems that every player that comes here has a career year with the Spurs. Where would Stephen Jackson be without the Spurs? Hedo turned his Spurs tenure into a fat contract with the Magic. Barry looks much better now than he did in Seattle, what with his two rings and all.

Vaughn all of a sudden is a heady backup, Finley a great addition with his timely shooting. And everyone forgets Horry, owner of 7 rings, including two with the Spurs. But wait, I guess everyone forgets about shots like the one against the Pistons in Game 5.

Yep, this front office doesn't have a clue what it's doing.


yeah, the role players performing well has nothing to do with playing with TD. its all the FO.
you may not have noticed, but TD makes everyone around him better, and what are you trying to say anyways, that the reason we have championships is because of guys like jackson, barry, hedo and vaughn? are you kidding me?

[judaspriestess]

I think there is a method to their madness. I'm just going to watch it play out. Stick to my teams decisions and enjoy the ride no matter if it brings joy or sadness.

The glass is always half full for me.

[BeerIsGood!]

Why is this a bad trade - they gave them to the ROCKETS!!! If they didn't want them and just let Scola rot in Europe and traded Butler to the EC for a 2nd rounder and cash - not that big of a deal. But they gave them to the Enemy. To a division rival. This is just as bad as giving them to the Mavs. You do not make your division rival stronger, ever.

[sabar]

I didn't say it was the best trade ever. But that doesn't make it the worst. Who's to say that Butler was going to pan out? Who's to say that Scola would play for the Spurs.

Remember, you all keep saying that it's the worst trade ever. Since you started the argument, you have to back it up. You have to prove you know more than the Spurs FO.

Well, now would be a good place to start. What makes you more qualified than the Spurs FO when judging talent, and what would you have done that would have made this team better this season, and season beyond next? How would you land a player that would significantly improve the Spurs for many years to come? And which GMs would you convince to take our garbage for their gold?

Inquiring minds want to know.Ok, here is one point that you have to submit to:

Trading them to division rivals (none-the-less, a starter) is a poor choice.

It is obviously better for the health of the Spurs to let Scola rot instead of make the Rockets stronger than they already are.

You're right about one thing, Holt does better at his job than I would -- his job of making money. This is obviously a cost-cutting move. I would make moves to improve the team at any cost, not my personal wealth. So no, I am not like Holt.

Sometimes I wish we had Cuban. He's a jerk, but he doesn't mind absorbing the luxury tax.

And our front office hasn't won 4 championships, it was pure luck in Tim Duncan, David Robinson, Tony Parker, and Manu. We would be a 30 win team without them.

[Beno Udrih]

And our front office hasn't won 4 championships, it was pure luck in Tim Duncan, David Robinson, Tony Parker, and Manu. We would be a 30 win team without them.
Bingo! Some people are to stupid to realize this. Tim has basically made Pop and R.C. look way overrated.

[Ocotillo]

Why is this a bad trade?

1) Scola for all intents and purposes will be an NBA player. How good is up for debate until he laces them up and we all see. The chances are he will be a good player. He was traded to the Houston Rockets who are a pretty good team, are in our division, and their primary need was power forward.

Scola should have had more value but if all you can get is a second round pick and some cash, it would be better to get nothing by letting him stay in Europe than giving him to one of the better Western Conference teams. We get nothing but they get potentially better.

2) Butler may or may not pan out but again, why let a strong rival find out on the cheap? If the team was set on getting something for Butler, ship him to the East where he might have a better chance as weak as the East is and we won't have to see him but twice a year.

3) People have been clamoring for a trade because that is what fans do. Butler and Scola were certainly tradeable assets but for the most part the team would have been best served moving Beno and Barry. To sweeten a deal to move those guys, one could throw in Bulter or Scola.

This trade makes so little sense that I am holding my breath waiting for the other shoe to drop to find out what else they have in mind because this just can't be all there is.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Bingo! Some people are to stupid to realize this. Tim has basically made Pop and R.C. look way overrated.

Yeah, all the front office suckups are right, it takes a great and talented front office to draft Tim Duncan #1. They should all get a billion dollar raise for that one.

[ShoogarBear]

:lol

This thread was sooo predictable.

[samikeyp]

Nathan,

So you are saying we as fans and paying customers do not have the right to voice our opinions?

[George Gervin's Afro]

...you would think that we would have complete trust with the Spurs FO. Oh well, there's no pleasing everyone, I guess.


I 100% agree with you..

[Loose Cannon]

It's no wonder the AT&T center is such a milquetoast basketball environment with spoiled pussy ass fans like 90% of you. Get over it. Butler was a scrub and Scola wasn't coming to San Antonio. Neither was going to make any impact on the team.

The entire playoff roster that won the title only losing FOUR GAMES in the playoffs is returning. We have the best and most succesful professional sports franchise since the 90s Bulls and you crybags still find some way to bloody an entire truck full of tampons every offseason. Jesus Christ.

[SAGambler]

...you would think that we would have complete trust with the Spurs FO. Oh well, there's no pleasing everyone, I guess.

You would think, but then again, why should this off season be any different from every other one, when all the wannabe GMs get to put on their new hat, and let the world know how THEY would have done it, IF THEY had a say in how the operation is run.

I suppose after 4 NBA titles, we can only thank the powers that be that THEY don't have dog in that race.

[genghisrex]

People who believe this was a trade based on basketball decisions are so cute! Cute and naive. This trade doesn't help our team talent this year and doesn't help our talent or flexibility in the future.

:cat :bling

[degenerate_gambler]

I love the people that think this is the greatest trade ever, particularly when it gives a division rival a starter and the first big off the bench. Go figure.


Damn I didn't realize Scola was already signed, sealed and delivered....and guaranteed a spot in the starting lineup.

Oh, and Jackie Butler....first big off the bench?? You're a moron.

[SAGambler]

Ok, here is one point that you have to submit to:

Trading them to division rivals (none-the-less, a starter) is a poor choice.

It is obviously better for the health of the Spurs to let Scola rot instead of make the Rockets stronger than they already are.

You're right about one thing, Holt does better at his job than I would -- his job of making money. This is obviously a cost-cutting move. I would make moves to improve the team at any cost, not my personal wealth. So no, I am not like Holt.

Sometimes I wish we had Cuban. He's a jerk, but he doesn't mind absorbing the luxury tax.

And our front office hasn't won 4 championships, it was pure luck in Tim Duncan, David Robinson, Tony Parker, and Manu. We would be a 30 win team without them.

Unless you have been there, done that, don't even pretend to know what you would do. I'll repeat again. It always amazes me how quick people are to spend someone elses money for what THEY want.

Wasn't it the FO that assembled this particular group of guys? You think maybe they "just got lucky"? Or maybe that they actually knew what they were doing? Now I'll give you it was pure luck of the draw that landed Duncan here, but as for Manu and Tony that statement just doesn't hold true.

[urunobili]

we have 4 championships because of the 97 NBA draft lottery, don't fool yourself. the FO hasn't engineered any of the spurs success.

LA went out and GOT shaq and kobe
Detroit went out and GOT just about every player on their championship team
Miami made that huge trade and were rewarded with a title

all those other Front offices BUILT their teams

the Spurs had TD fall in their lap and lucked out with Manu, TP was their only successful first round pick in the last 9 years. 1/9 isn't anything special.

this was a pathetic, cost cutting, arrogant move. a total snub to us fans

man.. i couldn;t agree more... maybe 5 championships in a row counting last year's would make me blindly believe in the Spurs FO...

[gaKNOW!blee]

we have 4 championships because of the 97 NBA draft lottery, don't fool yourself. the FO hasn't engineered any of the spurs success.

LA went out and GOT shaq and kobe
Detroit went out and GOT just about every player on their championship team
Miami made that huge trade and were rewarded with a title

all those other Front offices BUILT their teams

the Spurs had TD fall in their lap and lucked out with Manu, TP was their only successful first round pick in the last 9 years. 1/9 isn't anything special.

this was a pathetic, cost cutting, arrogant move. a total snub to us fans
You can just say they lucked out with Manu and TP, they took risks with those picks. They were thinking everyone underrated these guys and they can help the team. And they were right.

[gaKNOW!blee]

man.. i couldn;t agree more... maybe 5 championships in a row counting last year's would make me blindly believe in the Spurs FO...
yeah, 5 championships in a row is completley possible in today's world or sports.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Damn I didn't realize Scola was already signed, sealed and delivered....and guaranteed a spot in the starting lineup.

Oh, and Jackie Butler....first big off the bench?? You're a moron.

They wouldn't have done the deal if they hadn't already reached an understanding with Scola.

Yep, Butler will get significant run, unless you are arguing that Houston will trot out 80 year old Dikembe Mutumbo.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

nm

[Marcus Bryant]

Damn I didn't realize Scola was already signed, sealed and delivered....and guaranteed a spot in the starting lineup.

Oh, and Jackie Butler....first big off the bench?? You're a moron.


Who will start over Scola? Hayes? Landry?

I think Butler beats out Mutombo for the backup 5 spot. Shouldn't be that difficult.

[Extra Stout]

Tim Duncan -- 1997 draft pick
Manu Ginobili -- 1999 draft pick
Tony Parker -- 2001 draft pick
Bruce Bowen -- 2001 free agent acquisition
Robert Horry -- 2003 free agent acquisition
Brent Barry -- 2004 free agent acquisition
Beno Udrih -- 2004 draft pick
Fabricio Oberto -- 2005 free agent acquistion
Michael Finley -- 2005 free agent acquisition
Francisco Elson -- 2006 free agent acquisition
Jacque Vaugn -- 2006 free agent acquisition
Matt Bonner -- 2006 trade acquisition

By my reckoning, the fruit of the Spurs' labors in draft and trades over the past five years has been:

Beno Udrih
Matt Bonner

The jury naturally is still out on Tiago Splitter and Marcus Williams.

Other than that, the Spurs' roster consists of free agents signed over the age of 30. It has been a very long dry spell for R.C. Buford.

[Spurminator]

They wouldn't have done the deal if they hadn't already reached an understanding with Scola.

Yep, Butler will get significant run, unless you are arguing that Houston will trot out 80 year old Dikembe Mutumbo.


Butler was a salary dump to go along with Scola. I'd be surprised if he appears in more than 20 games all year, unless Yao gets injured. Remember, this is an Adelman team now. They'll play Chuck Hayes at center before they trot out Jackie Butler.

[Marcus Bryant]

Tim Duncan -- 1997 draft pick
Manu Ginobili -- 1999 draft pick
Tony Parker -- 2001 draft pick
Bruce Bowen -- 2001 free agent acquisition
Robert Horry -- 2003 free agent acquisition
Brent Barry -- 2004 free agent acquisition
Beno Udrih -- 2004 draft pick
Fabricio Oberto -- 2005 free agent acquistion
Michael Finley -- 2005 free agent acquisition
Francisco Elson -- 2006 free agent acquisition
Jacque Vaugn -- 2006 free agent acquisition
Matt Bonner -- 2006 trade acquisition

By my reckoning, the fruit of the Spurs' labors in draft and trades over the past five years has been:

Beno Udrih
Matt Bonner

The jury naturally is still out on Tiago Splitter and Marcus Williams.

Other than that, the Spurs' roster consists of free agents signed over the age of 30. It has been a very long dry spell for R.C. Buford.

Who was the intern who came up with the idea to draft Ginobili? We know Parker was Presti's idea.

They deal Rose and two picks who became David Lee and Mardy Collins for a year's rental of the current Pistons' 12th man. Rasho was sent out for Bonner and eventually Melvin Ely. They did get Turkoglu and Mercer for the rotting corpse of Danny Ferry's contract. They did get 20 games of Speedy Claxton back in '02 for John Salmons and a 2nd round pick. Oh and they passed on Josh Howard and dealt Barbosa to the Suns for a future 1st round pick that they traded to the Knicks and was used to draft David Lee (IIRC).

The only way to understand the deal the Spurs made was that they will likely make out $6.1 mil to the good due to it. The FO knows it sucks from a basketball perspective, but they were willing to do it for $6.1 mil.

[Ocotillo]

Adelman is a good coach and a flexible coach. He adapts to the players he has. His Portland team of the early 90s were quite different from the Sacto teams of recent years. Houston is going to be stronger. They will have a bit of adjustment to Adelman v. Van Gundy but Bonzi is coming back to life as he and Adelman worked in Sacto, they have Mike James to help with the point which is still a weak spot for them, and the Spurs just spotted them a couple of bigs to cover their other weak spot.

[Marcus Bryant]

The only thing left to parse is how much moves such as these are driven by Holt. Supposely Holt is hands-off, but then again are RC and Pop going to say anything negative about the lead owner in public?

[spurQ]

Spurs Fans. I would like to say as a longterm SPURS! fan i would say i don't like the trade to a certain point. I've read some of the threads on here and some people on here do have the right to be mad But! you have to trust the FO on what they are doing. You can't give away something for nothing. But we have to trust what they are doing. We have a long off season and everybody has to catch us not us catching them. I believe that the FO has a plan that we just don't know yet. And when it is said and done we will be much happier with the results. So don't get crazy yet. Be like the team and stay humble and focus. Enjoy the summer like are buddy Parker. (Lord knows he is) And let FO do their jobs. :fro

[Spurs Dynasty 21]

nothing good will come out of this



whoever they sign prob wont even break the rotation

[Nathan Explosion]

The guys they gave away wouldn't have broken the rotation either.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

This really needed to be in a new thread?

[callo1]

I think the problem most people are having with this trade is the fact that we didn't really get anything in return. With Butler playing good ball in the NBDL right now there had to be a better deal out there somewhere. Reports were that Bulter's recent play had garnered interest from other GM's around the league. Add the fact that we toss in Scola and it is a bitter pill to swallow. Essentially we lose two decent (possibly really good) talents for cap and roster space. Even if Butler and Scola don't have a big impact for Houston the trade still stinks because right now Butler and especially Scola are considered to be much more talented than what we got for them.

I hope the Spurs have something in the works to bring a long SF in, but I dunno after this debacle.

I still have faith in the Spurs front office, simply because even the smartest have brain farts from time to time, but damn, this one is gonna leave a mark.