Damn

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

I had this nightmare that the Spurs front office got raped by the Houston front office in some stupid trade where we sent out Butler and the rights to Scola for some scrub hack guard that won't play in America, all to save Holt about 6 million next year.

I just got on here to post about it, and realized it actually happened. :madrun

Still can't believe they did this. Worst trade in franchise history.

[Findog]

They get an instant expiring contract with the Greek dude whom they'll buy out for $0 and IMO Butler is always going to be a defensive liability. The only aspect of it I don't understand is trading Scola to a division rival.

[lebomb]

Will this come back to haunt the Spurs?

[justanotherspursfan]

They get an instant expiring contract with the Greek dude whom they'll buy out for $0 and IMO Butler is always going to be a defensive liability. The only aspect of it I don't understand is trading Scola to a division rival.
Even if you see the rationale for it in terms of trading for open cap space -- and even if they somehow do brilliant things with the resulting cap space -- it's still a pretty lousy trade, all things considered.

They get a 2009 second rounder from a likely playoff team for Scola, which is about the lowest market value anyone could envision for him, and a far cry from the first rounder they were seeking. And in concert, they dump a player who is admittedly flawed defensively, but seems to have a legitimate NBA skill in terms of post scoring. Despite the fact that his contract is hardly exorbitant, instead of being able to realize any sort of value for Butler at all, all they receive back is his cap space.

The Rockets robbed us blind on this one.

[Darkwaters]

Will this come back to haunt the Spurs?

Yes

[Soul_Patch]

These kind of things make it so hard to be a spurs fan sometimes.


I despise shit like this.,

[Budkin]

Agreed Aggie, I felt the same way this morning. Worst fucking trade ever.

[Supergirl]

4 titles later, I have to put my trust in the Spurs FO.

I agree it doesn't make sense, esp with how well Butler has been progressing in the summer league. But I also know it was only a few months ago that Pop didn't seem to confident that Butler was going to work out. This trade definitely sends the message that they didn't think he could ever become their center of the future.

Getting rid of Scola could come back to bite them, if Houston decides to buy him out and bring him over next year. But they put in their time for Scola, and got screwed by Tau and his agent over and over. At this point he's already 26 or 27, has been playing for awhile. The life of NBA big men is shorter than other players, foreign players typically come with more years, and take a couple years to develop into strong players. So it is quite likely they weren't going to get much out of him anymore.

I think if anything, this trade also signals high hopes they have for Tiago Splitter, who is younger and apparently has an easier contract to get him out of, so he can come over sooner.

[midgetonadonkey]

Will this come back to haunt the Spurs?

No. I bet Scola never plays an NBA game and Jackie Bulter will spend more time at the buffet line than the starting line. up.

[ducks]

I had this nightmare that the Spurs front office got raped by the Houston front office in some stupid trade where we sent out Butler and the rights to Scola for some scrub hack guard that won't play in America, all to save Holt about 6 million next year.

I just got on here to post about it, and realized it actually happened. :madrun

Still can't believe they did this. Worst trade in franchise history.
damm just what spurstalk.com needed another thread about the same thing :clap :clap :clap :clap :clap :clap :clap :clap :clap :clap :clap :clap

[Marcus Bryant]

No. I bet Scola never plays an NBA game and Jackie Bulter will spend more time at the buffet line than the starting line. up.

We can hope. I don't see the Rockets giving up the benefit of Spannisssloouuis walking away from his contract plus cash if Scola wasn't coming over.

[thispego]

spurs are just so confident with the team they have now that they can beat anybody in a seven game series that they are trading good players to good teams in their own conference just to make the competition that much harder for everyone else. Hell, Let there be 5 POWERHOUSES in the west next year. SPurs will come out on top again. Pop has finally figured out the winning formula for an NBA season... he's got it alllll figured out, i'm confident.

[BacktoBasics]

Although I don't exactly think it was a great trade I don't know why we care some much with what we do with the 11th or 12th man on the roster and some dude with zero trade value.

[Dave McNulla]

I had this nightmare that the Spurs front office got raped by the Houston front office in some stupid trade where we sent out Butler and the rights to Scola for some scrub hack guard that won't play in America, all to save Holt about 6 million next year.

I just got on here to post about it, and realized it actually happened. :madrun

Still can't believe they did this. Worst trade in franchise history.maybe you forgot the thread that you started and the thirty or so posts you made. http://spurstalk.com/forums/images/smilies/wakeup.gif

if scola goes to the rockets and contributes more than juwan howard did, which i doubt he will, i still don't think this is that big of a deal. scola is not going from 14ppg in the el (30 games at 40 m/ea) to slamming the nba. and his defense is not good.

[peewee's lovechild]

I don't see how this hurts the Spurs at all. Why's everyone so pissed. Scola is not going to play in the NBA for at least another year. He's 27 now, he'll be at least 28 when he finally enters the league and it's gonna take him a year or two to become acclimated to the league.

He's done.

Butler's defense sucked. He was a decent insurance policy, and that may be a bit overstated.

I really don't see how this hurts the Spurs if it leaves cap space for the future.

[Loose Cannon]

They get a 2009 second rounder from a likely playoff team for Scola, which is about the lowest market value anyone could envision for him, and a far cry from the first rounder they were seeking.

"Lowest market value" doesn't even make sense. Market value is what you can get for an asset on the open market. As you can see, market value for Scola was a 2nd round draft pick. Otherwise, the Spurs would have gotten more than that pick for him. Unless you believe the front office purposely took a lesser offer than they received from another team, in which case you're an idiot.

Market value for Scola was exactly what we got for him. The main issue here was unrealistic value placed on our asset(s), Scola in particular, by posters on this site. They've been shopping the pick for two years or more, and haven't received an offer of a first rounder. Market value = second round pick.

[urunobili]

maybe you forgot the thread that you started and the thirty or so posts you made. http://spurstalk.com/forums/images/smilies/wakeup.gif

if scola goes to the rockets and contributes more than juwan howard did, which i doubt he will, i still don't think this is that big of a deal. scola is not going from 14ppg in the el (30 games at 40 m/ea) to slamming the nba. and his defense is not good.

Jawa Juice Howard is a goddamn noone in the Basketball world... Luis Scola... Big Time winner... if he stays in Spain i promise i will never say anything wrong about the Spurs FO again in my whole life... but if he goes to the Rockets.. this will be remembered as the worst fucking trade ever...

[J.T.]

This will be rectified if Houston is bounced en route to #5.

[Dave McNulla]

Jawa Juice Howard is a goddamn noone in the Basketball world... Luis Scola... Big Time winner... if he stays in Spain i promise i will never say anything wrong about the Spurs FO again in my whole life... but if he goes to the Rockets.. this will be remembered as the worst fucking trade ever...are you going to remember that statement when scola goes 7pts 6 reb for the rockets? i think scola has to beat the spurs in the playoffs for this trade to get the worst trade ever rating.

[SAGambler]

spurs are just so confident with the team they have now that they can beat anybody in a seven game series that they are trading good players to good teams in their own conference just to make the competition that much harder for everyone else. Hell, Let there be 5 POWERHOUSES in the west next year. SPurs will come out on top again. Pop has finally figured out the winning formula for an NBA season... he's got it alllll figured out, i'm confident.
1. How many times since Butler arrived here have fans said he would never make it in the NBA?

Answer: Practically everyone

2. How many minutes has Scola logged on an NBA team?

Anser: None, nada, nil.......

And NOW they are suddenly GOOD PLAYERS? That would have helped the Spurs immensely?

And going to a good team? Maybe if they could keep Yao and Tmac healthy for an entire season. But I don't see that happening. Even IF, and that's a big IF, somehow they managed to actually bring Scola, I don't see any big immediate improvement teamwise. I see the Rockets as being a fairly decent RS team finishing as 7 or 8 seed. Remember when they acquired TMac, and he was supposed to "take them to elite status"? Well, he didn't, he won't and I can't see Scola doing it either. I mean, you're talking about a team with a huge lead that let Beno come in and take the game away from them.

[SAGambler]

Jawa Juice Howard is a goddamn noone in the Basketball world... Luis Scola... Big Time winner... if he stays in Spain i promise i will never say anything wrong about the Spurs FO again in my whole life... but if he goes to the Rockets.. this will be remembered as the worst fucking trade ever...

I'm sure there has to be some rationale behind that statement.

I don't believe it....Convince me.

[ArgSpursFan]

No. I bet Scola never plays an NBA game and Jackie Bulter will spend more time at the buffet line than the starting line. up.

Get ready to see Scola in a Rocket´s uniform next season.
His buy out is about 2.5 M this year,and Tau will negociate it coze they know If they don´t do it,they´ll get shit for him next year when his contract ends up.

[ArgSpursFan]

I'm sure there has to be some rationale behind that statement.

I don't believe it....Convince me.

We don´t have to.Just sit down and watch him play next season.And them convince your self instead.

[thispego]

1. How many times since Butler arrived here have fans said he would never make it in the NBA?

Answer: Practically everyone

2. How many minutes has Scola logged on an NBA team?

Anser: None, nada, nil.......

And NOW they are suddenly GOOD PLAYERS? That would have helped the Spurs immensely?

And going to a good team? Maybe if they could keep Yao and Tmac healthy for an entire season. But I don't see that happening. Even IF, and that's a big IF, somehow they managed to actually bring Scola, I don't see any big immediate improvement teamwise. I see the Rockets as being a fairly decent RS team finishing as 7 or 8 seed. Remember when they acquired TMac, and he was supposed to "take them to elite status"? Well, he didn't, he won't and I can't see Scola doing it either. I mean, you're talking about a team with a huge lead that let Beno come in and take the game away from them.
sure, i'd say they're good players. but i never said that they would have helped the spurs... did you read my post? or just misunderstand it?

[Mr. Body]

Will this come back to haunt the Spurs?

Yes. It's like an instant, lingering haunting. Blood out of the asshole kind of thing.

[florige]

Hey look at it this way, at least we didn't make this trade with the Mavericks. I can understand Butler, but I'm kind of curious to find out their reasoning for all of the sudden dumping the Scola project. :wtf

[Marcus Bryant]

Hey look at it this way, at least we didn't make this trade with the Mavericks. I can understand Butler, but I'm kind of curious to find out their reasoning for all of the sudden dumping the Scola project. :wtf

Instead of the experienced int'l big and the young bigman prospect who will cost at least a combined $6 mil per season they went with the experienced int'l big and young bigman prospect who will cost $1.5 mil per. That's what happened.

[spursfaninla]

I was pissed when I first heard about this trade.

Then I took some time to really think about it.

Butler was reported (I believe by ludden, saw it on a quote posted) to be complaining about playing time HERE. He is still a project, because:

1) His D is still lacking, the most important thing we need from a bigman,
2) His rebounding is still not great, the 2nd most important thing we need from him,
3) We don't really need him. He is NOT, repeat, NOT going to give us more than Oberto this year, given his minutes. Or next year. Maybe more points, but do you really want him taking touches in the post over Duncan?

So Butler was a cheap young big. We traded him for money now. If we get a good swingman to replace our vets for next year, mission accomplished.

The same can be said for Scola on just about every point above. He is a proven scorer, so yes that is an asset that goes beyond Butler's flashes of offense and "potential". But Scola still:

1) Was never going to work next to Duncan. He can't rebound, he can't score from outside, and would clog the lane for Duncan's inside game. He is not a great defender, either.

2) He has attitude about the Spurs, which is evident from his agent. Resentment. He would have been a cancer.

3) Market value was evidently low for him. Sure, we could let him stay in Europe, but why not get some $ now for him, which we can use for a sf now?

IF we get a sf with the jack we just got, I think we are ahead. Jackie was not going to get any playing time this year, and so his trade value would not go up. I think it is more likely than not that he does nothing in the league anyway. Scola is great on your team if you don't already have a low post scorer. Otherwise, his game will be limited here with bigger players. His scoring is negated by his limitations in rebounding and defending.

IF we don't get somebody this year, or spend some serious bank next, I'm pissed. Even if we wait for next summer to spend our rainy day money on going over the cap, I'm pissed because we didn't maximize our chances for a repeat with this aging team.

People seriously over-valued Scola and Butler, that is why this seems so bad. Considering the above, we got money to spend that makes acquisitions possible for players that would have never hit the floor for us.

[Mr. Body]

IF we get a sf with the jack we just got, I think we are ahead.

This isn't happening.

[Marcus Bryant]

Oh well, this is a good weekend to head out to the coast, kick back on a beach with a cold one in hand, fire up a Cohiba, and relax.

[justanotherspursfan]

"Lowest market value" doesn't even make sense. Market value is what you can get for an asset on the open market. As you can see, market value for Scola was a 2nd round draft pick. Otherwise, the Spurs would have gotten more than that pick for him. Unless you believe the front office purposely took a lesser offer than they received from another team, in which case you're an idiot.

Market value for Scola was exactly what we got for him.
Thanks, smart guy. I've never heard of economic theory before -- thank god you enlightened me.

If we can depart from the theoretical world where every market valuation is by definition perfect for a moment, there are generally a range of potential market values for an asset, depending on how things transpire. If you're trying to sell your house and you advertise "desperate seller -- must close within 30 days," expect to get a rather different price than if someone comes up to you and tries to convince you to sell it even though you technically don't have it on the market.

Everyone knew we were desperate to ship Scola out before time ran out with Tau on the 15th, and they saw us coming a mile away. Even second round picks have degrees of value -- one from a likely perennial playoff team is a pretty lousy return compared to, say, a pick from the Celtics. Also, all we got for Butler was his pure contract liquidation value, which is pretty weak, as well.


The main issue here was unrealistic value placed on our asset(s), Scola in particular, by posters on this site. They've been shopping the pick for two years or more, and haven't received an offer of a first rounder. Market value = second round pick.
I don't have any illusions that Scola is a gigantic asset. But IIRC, even the front office said earlier that they wanted more than a second rounder. I'm not one of those people who always blames the front office for not signed every single sleeper the league has known. Most of the time, I think they do a really good job. But this just sucked, and I think you're delusional if you think otherwise.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Butler was reported (I believe by ludden, saw it on a quote posted) to be complaining about playing time HERE.

Ludden is a lap dog for the front office. It's typical standard operating procedure when cutting costs and getting rid of a player for them to float a story about the player jettisoned either 1) complaining about playing time or 2) being a locker room cancer.

It's usually reported weeks or months in advance so that when it happens the E-N can say 'see, we reported this a while back'.

[Marcus Bryant]

Ludden is a lap dog for the front office. It's typical standard operating procedure when cutting costs and getting rid of a player for them to float a story about the player jettisoned either 1) complaining about playing time or 2) being a locker room cancer.

It's usually reported weeks or months in advance so that when it happens the E-N can say 'see, we reported this a while back'.

All that's left is for the article stating that White thought all Hispanics wore sombreros...

[timvp]

All that's left is for the article stating that White thought all Hispanics wore sombreros...

:lmao

[Marcus Bryant]

The Spurs have turned their investment in a couple of prospects into an investment in the Toros to sift through lesser prospects to find the one who sucks the least.

[luna8190]

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f146/luna8190/Vassilis-Spanoulis-1.jpg