TrueHoop: The Spurs Won't Pay the Luxury Tax

[Marcus Bryant]

http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-26-38/The-Spurs-Won-t-Pay-the-Luxury-Tax.html

The Spurs Won't Pay the Luxury Tax

July 13, 2007 11:36 AM

Posted by Kelly Dwyer

I struggled with a way to take this post for a while, but things are starting to make sense now. The San Antonio Spurs, fat and sassy with their fourth title in nine years and their ability to make TV magic, passed on paying the luxury tax during the 2007-08 season. Why else would they trade the right to sign Luis Scola - considered the finest overseas prospect in these here hills - and an emerging pivot talent for a player who won't spend another minute in the NBA?

After signing Matt Bonner and Fabricio Oberto to extensions that will combine to add nearly six-million caucasoid clams to their payroll next season, the Spurs sought to trim payroll enough to eke their way below the tax threshold. Scola is essentially a free agent, but all signs pointed against this potential Loy Vaught-clone (that's a good thing, cats and kittens) staying away from the Spurs due to a toxic mix of lack of minutes and lack of funds being sent his way. Enter Houston; a desperate rival stuck inside the same division, but also one that boasts an unhappy Greek point guard who can't shoot and won't shave and had Jeff Van Gundy turn him off the whole stateside appearance.

Vassilis Spanoulis has absolutely zero leverage, his name sounds like a dish that would include pine nuts, and his agent actually told the Houston Chronicle last week that the Rockets could "trade him to San Antonio and he could be the starting point guard, and he would he would say, No, I cannot.'" So, no; he cannot, and the Spurs will buy him out. Jackie Butler's guaranteed contract will lope over to Houston-town and for some reason the Spurs decided to throw Scola's rights in as a sweetener.

From there, we ask questions; to the cat, because nobody else is in the house right now.

Was Scola's situation so dire that the Spurs were about to lose all leverage and they had to dump the guy? Jackie Butler for V-Span is already a huge steal for Houston - Butler is a darn good pivot prospect whose per-minute numbers (even at power forward, which surprised me) were quite encouraging even as a part of the New York Knick mess in 2004-05 and 2005-06. Isn't that deal, even with Bonner and Oberto's extensions, enough to miss the cap threshold once you buy Spanoulis out? Why throw in Scola? Was I wrong about RC Buford? I'd never seen him with sunnies on until that column was published. Should I have gone with Donnie Nelson? Nelson's signed Devean George - twice. The whole thing just shakes my faith.

Either way, the trade is an absolute home run for the Rockets. Scola's reps already told the Houston Chronicle's Jonathan Feigen that he's well on his way toward coming over for 2007-08. I only wish the Rockets could send Butler to a team that could use his touch in the pivot. Stuck behind Yao Ming and Dikembe Mutombo in Rick Adelman's rotation; that's not a good start. And yet, it hardly changes what looks on paper to be one of the more lopsided NBA deals in the last decade.

[Budkin]

I normally think Kelly Dwyer is a fucking retard but reading this just makes it hurt even more. FUUUUUUUUUCKK!!!!

[texasqb2]

Butler and Scola have not done a damn thing in the NBA....how is this a lopsided trade? You don't realize how much money the spurs saved plus another 2nd round pick and extra cash....yeah it's not a deal the spurs wanted to make but scola's buyout practically forced it along with Jackie Butler's appetite.

[Marcus Bryant]

Butler and Scola have not done a damn thing in the NBA....how is this a lopsided trade? You don't realize how much money the spurs saved plus another 2nd round pick and extra cash....yeah it's not a deal the spurs wanted to make but scola's buyout practically forced it along with Jackie Butler's appetite.

Actually the payroll expense reduction plus cash works out to $6.8 mil. Maybe they take $700K of that and bring Mahinmi in. Yippee.

[Mitch Cumsteen]

The Spurs Won't Pay the Luxury Tax
Water is wet.

[Soul_Patch]

This deal completely defies everything that is good about the spurs, unless they have bigger plans to do something, and this is just the beginning.


Somehow i doubt it, but god please i hope so. How can you throw your two best tradable assets (not great but still) for basically nothing but money.

[Marcus Bryant]

This deal completely defies everything that is good about the spurs, unless they have bigger plans to do something, and this is just the beginning.


Somehow i doubt it, but god please i hope so. How can you throw your two best tradable assets (not great but still) for basically nothing but money.

The Spurs have been about doing things on the cheap for some time now.

[AFBlue]

Butler and Scola have not done a damn thing in the NBA....how is this a lopsided trade? You don't realize how much money the spurs saved plus another 2nd round pick and extra cash....yeah it's not a deal the spurs wanted to make but scola's buyout practically forced it along with Jackie Butler's appetite.

Your powers of observation are stunning...

You mean to tell me that an international player and a 22yr old kid who's never been in the right situation haven't done anything in the NBA? That's insight...

Of course, what you failed to look at is that both have the TALENT to be significant contributors in the NBA if given the opportunity. To trade them away for cap relief is unbelievably stupid.

In two years, people will say "I can't believe the Spurs let both of these guys go for a second round pick....rediculous."

In case your powers of interpretation are failing you...

Here's the bottom line: It's not what these guys have done in the past or what they wouldn't have done for the Spurs in the future (likely never getting the opportunity)....it's what they WILL do in the future for a team on the cusp of becoming a legitimate title contender.

[Real Tomato Ketchup]

Butler and Scola have not done a damn thing in the NBA....how is this a lopsided trade? You don't realize how much money the spurs saved plus another 2nd round pick and extra cash....yeah it's not a deal the spurs wanted to make but scola's buyout practically forced it along with Jackie Butler's appetite.


That was going to be my only point. This is the best franchise in SPORTS much less the NBA, I am anything but worried.

[celldweller]

Wow, now I'm really sick! :depressed - :cry - :oops - :vomit: - :huh - :cuss

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Vassilis Spanoulis has absolutely zero leverage, his name sounds like a dish that would include pine nuts
:lol

[Marcus Bryant]

The Spurs know this was a bad deal based on talent. What remains to be seen is if $6.8 mil in payroll savings and cash received plus what the talent that they chose over Butler and Scola was worth it.

Instead of paying Butler $2.5 mil per and Scola $3 mil per they will pay Mahinmi and Splitter each $700K per.

[Real Tomato Ketchup]

The Spurs know this was a bad deal based on talent. What remains to be seen is if $6.8 mil in payroll savings and cash received plus what the talent that they chose over Butler and Scola was worth it.

Instead of paying Butler $2.5 mil per and Scola $3 mil per they will pay Mahinmi and Splitter each $700K per.

Sounds pretty savy to me, but hey I am no NBA GM so what the F would I know.

[Marcus Bryant]

It's savvy if Butler and Scola aren't worth the difference.

[Solid D]

http://usediron.point2.com/Photo/Equipment/468544-1-M.jpg

Luis Scola and Jackie Butler

[AFBlue]

The Spurs know this was a bad deal based on talent. What remains to be seen is if $6.8 mil in payroll savings and cash received plus what the talent that they chose over Butler and Scola was worth it.

Instead of paying Butler $2.5 mil per and Scola $3 mil per they will pay Mahinmi and Splitter each $700K per.

How is it $6.8M in payroll savings?

My count is $5M....which is JB's $2.5M salary doubled because of lux tax implications.

This also assumes that the Spurs will not have to pay Spanoulis ANY of his guaranteed contract.

How did you arrive at $6.8M?

[Marcus Bryant]

How is it $6.8M in payroll savings?

My count is $5M....which is JB's $2.5M salary doubled because of lux tax implications.

This also assumes that the Spurs will not have to pay Spanoulis ANY of his guaranteed contract.

How did you arrive at $6.8M?

$4.9 mil for Butler (his salary is around $2.45 mil if I am not mistaken).

The Rockets included cash in the deal to cover Sppannnnisslsouous' salary next season, which will be $1.9 mil. Assuming he walks away from the contract, that's a benefit.

$6.8 mil.

[AFBlue]

Sounds pretty savy to me, but hey I am no NBA GM so what the F would I know.

Neither Splitter nor Mahinmi have the level of low-post talent that Butler and Scola had. I understand the reasoning behind getting rid of one of them, but to get rid of both leaves the Spurs without that capability outside of Duncan. IMO, that's a big hole...

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

http://usediron.point2.com/Photo/Equipment/468544-1-M.jpg

Luis Scola and Jackie Butler
:lol

[Spurs Dynasty 21]

Either way, the trade is an absolute home run for the Rockets. Scola's reps already told the Houston Chronicle's Jonathan Feigen that he's well on his way toward coming over for 2007-08.



:lol :lol :lol :lol

:drunk :drunk :drunk :drunk :drunk :drunk


:pctoss :pctoss :pctoss :pctoss :pctoss :pctoss :pctoss :pctoss






The Spurs FO are truly geniuses

[AFBlue]

$4.9 mil for Butler (his salary is around $2.45 mil if I am not mistaken).

The Rockets included cash in the deal to cover Sppannnnisslsouous' salary next season, which will be $1.9 mil. Assuming he walks away from the contract, that's a benefit.

$6.8 mil.

So we've confirmed the "cash considerations" as t$1.9M money to pay off Spanoulis?

And then we're making the assumption that Spanoulis' agent won't try to get the money he is still owed? I wonder how feasible that is...though I saw the comments about how adamant V-Span was about staying in Greece.

Either way, those cash considerations would not have the benefit of counting against the cap....they'd just line the pockets of the organization.

[GhostofAlfrederickHughes]

Your powers of observation are stunning...

You mean to tell me that an international player and a 22yr old kid who's never been in the right situation haven't done anything in the NBA? That's insight...

Of course, what you failed to look at is that both have the TALENT to be significant contributors in the NBA if given the opportunity. To trade them away for cap relief is unbelievably stupid.

In two years, people will say "I can't believe the Spurs let both of these guys go for a second round pick....rediculous."

In case your powers of interpretation are failing you...

Here's the bottom line: It's not what these guys have done in the past or what they wouldn't have done for the Spurs in the future (likely never getting the opportunity)....it's what they WILL do in the future for a team on the cusp of becoming a legitimate title contender.
Jackie Butler wasn't "in the right situation"? Um, lessee, the Spurs threw an unbelievable contract at him, freed him from the mess in NY, gave him a chance to compete with Elson in camp----and he showed up out of shape.

As for Scola, I don't think we've heard the whole story. If this guy was so hot to join his Argentinian mates in S.A., his agent would have found a way to get out of his contract. Suddenly, he's raving about Houston and how excited he is to join a team that can't get out of the first round, as opposed to joining the defending champs, becoming heir to Robert Horry and lining up alongside Duncan?

[101A]

Bang for the buck. THAT is what keeps the Spurs succeeding year after year. Duncan, Ginobilli, Parker & Bowen offer it.

Neither Butler nor Scola did (or Rasho, Malik, et al - at least by somebody's standard)

The Spurs, and any small market (and relatively small budget) team that wants to compete with the big spenders, MUST be carefull with every dollar, and that means, yes, saving whenever you can for a rainy day fund. Most of us look at the cap and every avenue to stretch MORE dollars available to spend under it, or over it, or whatever, and amass all the talent possible. The Spurs don't have that luxury. They are dealing with REAL dollars, and finite ones at that. 4 rings in 9 seasons don't lie - being called cheap pretty much all the while.

There is a difference between "cheap" and "prudent". Do the Spurs want to hand Houston a title? No. Do they want to continue to win championships? Yes. Only history will tell EXACTLY how bad this trade was for the Spurs; everything else is speculation. I can only assume that they have done what they've done for basketball business reasons; and all that implies.

[Bruno]

And yet, it hardly changes what looks on paper to be one of the more lopsided NBA deals in the last decade.

On paper, yes.

Now, back to the reality :

- Scola was ready to sign an extension with Tau. He didn't want to sign with Sprus (and Spurs didn't want him) and wanted to play for a limited number of teams.

- Butler is a so-so project who hasn't played for a year, was paid $2.4M. Pop didn't like him and wanted to get rid of him.

Spurs weren't at all in a good position to get a good deal and they didn't get a good deal.

[Marcus Bryant]

So we've confirmed the "cash considerations" as t$1.9M money to pay off Spanoulis?

And then we're making the assumption that Spanoulis' agent won't try to get the money he is still owed? I wonder how feasible that is...though I saw the comments about how adamant V-Span was about staying in Greece.

Either way, those cash considerations would not have the benefit of counting against the cap....they'd just line the pockets of the organization.

Yeah, what makes this deal worse is when Spannissslououous starts making noise about wanting to join the Spurs so they're forced to pay him something to go away.

[Real Tomato Ketchup]

Neither Splitter nor Mahinmi have the level of low-post talent that Butler and Scola had. I understand the reasoning behind getting rid of one of them, but to get rid of both leaves the Spurs without that capability outside of Duncan. IMO, that's a big hole...


I still say neither of them have been tested to any degree so not a big deal IMO. I just think that the FO is pretty good at what they do, but it does seem like they gave and got nothing.

[Darkwaters]

Butler and Scola have not done a damn thing in the NBA....how is this a lopsided trade? You don't realize how much money the spurs saved plus another 2nd round pick and extra cash....yeah it's not a deal the spurs wanted to make but scola's buyout practically forced it along with Jackie Butler's appetite.

Potential is everything in the NBA and bigs are expensive. The Rockets just got two cheap bigs (one with high potentianl) for a second rounder. And on top of it, they ditched Spanoulis. How is that anything but lopsided?

[AFBlue]

Jackie Butler wasn't "in the right situation"? Um, lessee, the Spurs threw an unbelievable contract at him, freed him from the mess in NY, gave him a chance to compete with Elson in camp----and he showed up out of shape.

As for Scola, I don't think we've heard the whole story. If this guy was so hot to join his Argentinian mates in S.A., his agent would have found a way to get out of his contract. Suddenly, he's raving about Houston and how excited he is to join a team that can't get out of the first round, as opposed to joining the defending champs, becoming heir to Robert Horry and lining up alongside Duncan?

Jackie may have shown up out of shape, but he worked his ass off to get back into shape....or rather, to get into shape for the first time in his life. Pop & Co. were too busy raving about how fast Elson could run to give Butler a legitimate shot at competing for a slot, so I don't want to hear that nonsense.

Look, obviously the Spurs FO saw enough of Jackie to think that he would never live up to his $2.5M contract with the Spurs. I just don't agree....and I think he'll surpass the expectations that come with a sub-$3M contract when he plays with the Rockets. He may have been the "filler", but I think he'll be a welcomed suprise for Rocket fans.

And on Scola, I understand that he would never have played for the Spurs, having felt spurned and disrespected (legitimate or not). But wouldn't it be better for the Spurs to just keep Scola overseas, rather than facing him 4 times a year? Is facing him 4 times a year really worth a 2009 second round pick? IMO, the answer is no.

[Marcus Bryant]

Potential is everything in the NBA and bigs are expensive. The Rockets just got two cheap bigs (one with high potentianl) for a second rounder. And on top of it, they ditched Spanoulis. How is that anything but lopsided?

Both have pretty good potential. Spurs just sold it for $6.8 mil. We'll see if they were correct.

[judaspriestess]

The Spurs have been about doing things on the cheap for some time now.
The ghost of Red McCombs and Bob Bass haunting the Spurs? No one did it cheaper than them.

[Marcus Bryant]

Holt was ready to let Parker walk over a couple mil. Beno could've been starting for the last couple of seasons. Think about that.

[Spurs Dynasty 21]

Holt was ready to let Parker walk over a couple mil. Beno could've been starting for the last couple of seasons. Think about that.




w/o Duncan begging for him to stay he'd be long gone




and w/o Bowen taking LESS money Manu would be in Denver

[AFBlue]

I still say neither of them have been tested to any degree so not a big deal IMO. I just think that the FO is pretty good at what they do, but it does seem like they gave and got nothing.

This trade was lopsided for the last reason you gave (Spurs got nothing in return)...

It will be absolute highway robbery if Scola and/or Butler turn out to be productive players for a team in the division.

[101A]

Holt was ready to let Parker walk over a couple mil. Beno could've been starting for the last couple of seasons. Think about that.

Tony Parker was finals MVP - at a steal of a price. Think about THAT.

[Marcus Bryant]

Tony Parker was finals MVP - at a steal of a price. Think about THAT.

After Pop, no less, went public.

[Mr. Body]

Yeah, what makes this deal worse is when Spannissslououous starts making noise about wanting to join the Spurs so they're forced to pay him something to go away.

Fully expect this to happen. He'd be nuts to walk away from money legally owed him.

[Marcus Bryant]

Fully expect this to happen. He'd be nuts to walk away from money legally owed him.

Spurs won't call his bluff.

[Nathan Explosion]

Everyone that comes into the league has potential. The draft if full of upside potential. How many of those guys live to see a day in the NBA?

Look, if we all got paid based on our potential, I would have convinced someone by now that I'm worth at least 6 figures annually. I have the potential to do the job I swear.

Luckily (not for me) in the real world you don't get paid for potential, you get paid for ability.

Everyone is acting like Scola is the greatest thing since sliced bread. Um, you do realize the best player on the planet plays on our team, right?

As someone said earlier, the Spurs are working with real dollars, and made a choice based on those real dollars. Put any of us in their situation, and we probably get fleeced really badly. Anybody swears they can be a great GM, but the fact that there are so few in the NBA proves it's not realistic.

[Supergirl]

Neither Splitter nor Mahinmi have the level of low-post talent that Butler and Scola had. I understand the reasoning behind getting rid of one of them, but to get rid of both leaves the Spurs without that capability outside of Duncan. IMO, that's a big hole...

This statement is very much up for debate, and it's the key to understanding the whole trade.

IF Butler, Scola, Splitter, and Mahinmi wind up playing next year, we'll see.

I'm surprised to see Scola is suddenly ready to pack his bags. That just confirms for me that he was dicking the Spurs around, and never really wanted to come here in the first place. Which suprises me, since Manu and Oberto are here, and I thought they were all good friends. But whatever.

Mahinmi could wind up being better than either Scola or Butler. On the other hand, Scola or Butler could blossom and make the Spurs pay for this trade. The reality is, all 4 are raw talented big men, and all 4 haven't done shit to prove they can be NBA players. We'll have to see how this plays out.

Personally, I'm going to trust the Spurs FO on this one. I think after 4 titles they've earned a LITTLE bit of trust.

[Mr. Body]

I'm surprised to see Scola is suddenly ready to pack his bags. That just confirms for me that he was dicking the Spurs around, and never really wanted to come here in the first place. Which suprises me, since Manu and Oberto are here, and I thought they were all good friends. But whatever.

He always wanted to come play for the Spurs. His biggest desire was to play in the NBA, for whatever team, but the Spurs didn't want him. It's no big surprise that he's coming over the instant an NBA team wants him and is able to get him (not blocked by the Spurs org).

The dicking was done by San Antonio.

[Bruno]

He always wanted to come play for the Spurs.

Scola didn't want to play for SA this summer and has said that he only wanted to play for certains teams.
knowing that, you shouldn't be surprised that Spurs get almost nothing for him.

[Mr. Body]

Scola didn't want to play for SA this summer and has said that he only wanted to play for certains teams.
knowing that, you shouldn't be surprised that Spurs get almost nothing for him.

He changed his tune when it was clear the Spurs wore the dunce cap. There were several other offers for Scola on the table, if you failed to read about them. Trading him to a division rival badly in need of him was worse than senseless.

[judaspriestess]

Perhaps this is severence pay to the Rockets for luring away Dennis Lindsey.

[SenorSpur]

He always wanted to come play for the Spurs. His biggest desire was to play in the NBA, for whatever team, but the Spurs didn't want him. It's no big surprise that he's coming over the instant an NBA team wants him and is able to get him (not blocked by the Spurs org).

The dicking was done by San Antonio.

Does anyone know when and why "the milk turned sour" between Scola and Spurs management?

[Supergirl]

He always wanted to come play for the Spurs. His biggest desire was to play in the NBA, for whatever team, but the Spurs didn't want him. It's no big surprise that he's coming over the instant an NBA team wants him and is able to get him (not blocked by the Spurs org).

The dicking was done by San Antonio.

As other people have said in this thread, Scola has balked at coming over for the Spurs, Tau has made his contract impossible to get out of for 3 years now, and the Spurs have been shopping him to teams for the last 2 years, with NO TAKERS.

I don't think Scola is worth the headache they've gotten, and there's no proof he's going to be as great as everyone is hoping. The NBA is different than Tau, and I think Scola is going to be in for a rude awakening. Big men have to play a very different style of game over here. At best, it will take him (and Mahinmi and Splitter) a year to adjust. At that point, Scola will be almost 28(?) while our guys will be 22, 23.

Butler worked his ass off to get into shape, but let's see how well that lasts. Big men who struggle to stay in shape have a poor legacy in the NBA: Jerome James, Eddy Curry come to mind. Shaq has fared the best, obviously, but it's arguable that he could be a much, much better player (defensively, at least) if he could stay in shape.

The more I think about this, the more I think the Spurs probably did the right thing here.

[Gros Membres!]

The Spurs know this was a bad deal based on talent. What remains to be seen is if $6.8 mil in payroll savings and cash received plus what the talent that they chose over Butler and Scola was worth it.

Instead of paying Butler $2.5 mil per and Scola $3 mil per they will pay Mahinmi and Splitter each $700K per.
Exactly. We talk about developing talent a lot on this board and it just seems to be that the faces changed for less money. Good, right? I certainly think so.

For me, I'll take the ? of Mahinmi over Butler simply because he is working and obviously wants to be here. I like his style and he will be a cheap Elson replacement once he's shipped out next year (?). Splitter fits the mold and we don't have to put up with Scola's bitching for minutes. Maybe he won't bitch but you have to think that "the most highly touted" PF, Euro prospect of the last 2-3 years will want some minutes. Eh, we have Timmy and last time I checked he's pretty good. Still.

I'll take the salary dump for an exchange of players and the opportunity to take a few more chances on the end of the bench and, hopefully, sign a nice FA that can be a real contributor either this summer or next.

[Bruno]

There were several other offers for Scola on the table.

How do you know that ?
Bulls were interested but it's nto sure that Scola was interested in them.
The cavs/Spurs/Kings failled but Spurs likely weren't the team that say no in this thread.

[Marcus Bryant]

How do you know that ?
Bulls were interested but it's nto sure that Scola was interested in them.
The cavs/Spurs/Kings failled but Spurs likely weren't the team that say no in this thread.

Because the Spurs couldn't have received a 2nd round pick for Scola's rights from the Bulls or Cavs? Come on. It's clear why the Spurs went with this deal. At least 6.8 million reasons why.

[ploto]

Mahinmi could wind up being better than either Scola or Butler.

Ian is at least 2 or 3 years from even being a borderline NBA quality player. Scola will start next season for the Rockets.

[boutons_]

"The dicking was done by ... "

Scola's 10-year contract and exorbitant contract buy-outs.

[Bruno]

Because the Spurs couldn't have received a 2nd round pick for Scola's rights from the Bulls or Cavs?

It's far from sure.
The Cavs offer was likely linked to Gooden leaving for Sacramento.
I can imagine Scola saying no to Chicago (cold city, defense first team and not a lot of playtime available).
And Scola+Butler for a 2nd round pick is a better deal than Scola for a 2nd round pick.

[lotr1trekkie]

This was purely a dump Butler move. Rockets asked what will you give us to take this guy off your hands. Spurs respond by sending them someone who was never going to play here anyway. One more roster space and some extra change to spend on a FA. I'll be shocked if Bulter is with the Rockets by opening nite.

[Bruno]

Ian is at least 2 or 3 years from even being a borderline NBA quality player. Scola will start next season for the Rockets.

How many times have you seen him play ?

[Vito Corleone]

People seem to forget that Butler is in a fix, he will not get better in San Antonio, he can't play in the D-league, all he can do is sit the bench, play in blowouts and get screwed in his development sending him packing is the best thing for him, who cares about Scola, he was dead to me last year.

Fact is Butler would never be a good player for us and unless we get a 1st which obviously no one wanted to offer then I would rather have the cap space

[Mr. Body]

How do you know that ?
Bulls were interested but it's nto sure that Scola was interested in them.
The cavs/Spurs/Kings failled but Spurs likely weren't the team that say no in this thread.

Numerous teams would have taken him for a 2nd rounder before the draft, which the Spurs laughed at. Then they turned around and threw him in as filler to the Rockets. I don't know why you aren't getting this.

As for the buyouts, it's clear now that Scola wasn't lying that he could get out of his contract last year, the Spurs were. The Rockets are about to sign him for the figure he's been asking for all along. Proof is in the pudding. I don't know why you're not getting this.

[ploto]

How many times have you seen him play ?
I have people I trust who have seen him play- what little that was last season. He surely does not compare to Luis Scola as the poster claimed.

[Bruno]

Numerous teams would have taken him for a 2nd rounder before the draft, which the Spurs laughed at. Then they turned around and threw him in as filler to the Rockets. I don't know why you aren't getting this.

First, they traded him in a better deal than Scola for a 2nd round pick.
Second, teams likely wouldhave asked to talk to Scola before doing the deal and Scola could ahve said no to them.
i don't knwo why you aren't getting this.



As for the buyouts, it's clear now that Scola wasn't lying that he could get out of his contract last year, the Spurs were.

:wtf
Spurs have never said that Scola couldn't sign with them next summer but they have decided to go with Elson/Butler over him.

[Mr. Body]

Look at this from the Rockets' point of view. They made out like felons.

That's what you're not getting. Perhaps you've heard of the Rockets? Division rivals? Why aren't you grasping that this was a piss poor trade in the face of a number of other trades? The Spurs could have gotten far more for Butler and Scola, together or separately, in a number of other basketball-positive deals, but wanted the money instead.

Stop painting lipstick on this pig. I won't fuck it.

[Bruno]

I have people I trust who have seen him play- what little that was last season. He surely does not compare to Luis Scola as the poster claimed.

He isn't Scola but I'm just amazed how people can say "Ian is at least 2 or 3 years from even being a borderline NBA quality player" while they barely know him.
Mahinmi isn't nba ready for the moment but he has a lot of qualities and could be a good nba player in 08-09 if everything goes well. He is a very good prospect.

[Marcus Bryant]

Look at this from the Rockets' point of view. They made out like felons.

That's what you're not getting. Perhaps you've heard of the Rockets? Division rivals? Why aren't you grasping that this was a piss poor trade in the face of a number of other trades? The Spurs could have gotten far more for Butler and Scola, together or separately, in a number of other basketball-positive deals, but wanted the money instead.

Stop painting lipstick on this pig. I won't fuck it.

They didn't have to trade Butler, that's for certain. Scola's situation has always been somewhat murky but if the Spurs really wanted him on the team he would have made it over earlier. Gifting those two within the division is rather questionable, even with them pulling netting $6.85 mil out of the deal.

[Bruno]

Continue to live in your fantasy world Mr. Body.

Fact is that you (baring you aren't RC Buford) and I haven't a clue about that "The Spurs could have gotten far more for Butler and Scola, together or separately, in a number of other basketball-positive deals, but wanted the money instead."
It's your POV, I respect it but it's far from being a sure thing.

[ploto]

He isn't Scola but I'm just amazed how people can say "Ian is at least 2 or 3 years from even being a borderline NBA quality player" while they barely know him.
Mahinmi isn't nba ready for the moment but he has a lot of qualities and could be a good nba player in 08-09 if everything goes well. He is a very good prospect.

Even you said he was a couple of years away from the NBA but now that has changed!

As it is, I do not even think the Spurs are going to bring him over this season.

[Bruno]

Even you said he was a couple of years away from the NBA but now that has changed!

:wtf
I've never said that Mahinmi couldn't start to help Spurs in 08-09.

[SMSpur]

Look at this from the Rockets' point of view. They made out like felons.

That's what you're not getting. Perhaps you've heard of the Rockets? Division rivals? Why aren't you grasping that this was a piss poor trade in the face of a number of other trades? The Spurs could have gotten far more for Butler and Scola, together or separately, in a number of other basketball-positive deals, but wanted the money instead.

Stop painting lipstick on this pig. I won't fuck it.

Here are a few FACTS for you.

#1.) Scola was only going to accept being traded to a few certain teams.

#2.) We had until July 15th to deal him, or lose all value for him as he was going to sign a longterm deal with Tau that had no buyout.

#3.) NO ONE was offering more than a second round DP for Scola.

The Spurs were the ones with ZERO leverage. And despite having zero leverage, they were not only able to still get the EXACT same thing in return for Scola that all the other teams were offering a second round DP, they were also able to save themselves $7 million dollars.

Even going with the idea that everyone has that we could have gotten a second round DP for Butler, is a second round DP really more advantageous to the team than $7 million dollars to work with?

[justanotherspursfan]

:wtf
I've never said that Mahinmi couldn't start to help Spurs in 08-09.
A year ago you said he was a couple years away, now you claim he's not -- why can't you be more consistent!?! :lol

[velik_m]

At least this trade opens up a roster spot for spurs to sign Slokar.

[Bruno]

A year ago you said he was a couple years away, now you claim he's not -- why can't you be more consistent!?! :lol

Because he has had a bad year with Pau in France.
BB wise, he lost a year.
The only postive of his year with Pau Orthez is that his body is more nba ready now and that he should be mentally stronger after this difficult year.
And the sooner Spurs sign him, the sooner he will be ready to help them.

[justanotherspursfan]

Because he has had a bad year with Pau in France.
BB wise, he lost a year.
The only postive of his year with Pau Orthez is that his body is more nba ready now and that he should be mentally stronger after this difficult year.
And the sooner Spurs sign him, the sooner he will be ready to help them.
Sorry, I was kidding.

If you were dead right about 08-09 all along, he would have been a couple of years away a year ago. :spin

[Bruno]

My bad, I haven't read your post carefully. :)

[timvp]

Before the trade:

The Spurs should get more than a second round pick for Butler.


The Spurs should get at least a first round pick for Scola. If they get less, they should just keep him

After the trade:

And Scola+Butler for a 2nd round pick is a better deal than Scola for a 2nd round pick.



These takes aren't adding up.

[EVAY]

The Spurs have been about doing things on the cheap for some time now.

Now that is the understatement of all time.

[Bruno]

These takes aren't adding up.

I haven't said that Butler > 2nd round pick.
I have said that dumping Butler makes sense for Spurs and after his good showing in SL, that it maybe doesn't make less sense.

Today, we learned that Pop was fed up with Butler. Dumping his contract was the thing to do.

About Scola : keeping or signing Scola wasn't a solution available. Scola didn't want to sign with Spurs and was going to sign an extension with Tau. The fact that he wanted to play only for a limited number of team should has hurted a lot his trade value.

[texasqb2]

How many significant minutes did you all realistically see Butler and Scola playing? We already have TD, Oberto, Elson, Horry, and Bonner. We have Ian and Tiago who the spurs felt were just as good if not better for our system than these two, so why not make the path easier for them to get to us at the same time free up some money and allow Luis to play in the NBA like he wanted. I think we made a pretty good deal, b/c basically this deal was Udoka/2nd Rd/$$$ for Butler/Scola.

[reydawg]

Why is sports writing so bad, in general?