some_user86
07-13-2007, 05:17 PM
The following is a post by a poster on Spursreport.com. If any of you guys follow both sites like I do, you know that the poster, Amente, is believed to be an insider. I thought this was very interesting and brought something to the discussion, so I copied and pasted it here. Anyhow, here it is:
== ==
Allow me to interrupt.......
FYI.
Scola was ready to extend his contract with Tau if he wasn't going to come to the NBA this summer and had until the 15th to tell Tau whether he would be coming to the NBA or not.
Here's the kicker, most all the GMs KNEW THIS so they were not going to give the Spurs anything of real value for SCOLA. They were in no way going to help the Spurs in any way in this Scola situation, for them it was either you accept our cheap offers for you don't get him or anything else for him. The Spurs took the best they could do.
For the Spurs it was either sign Scola, take whatever they could for him or just lose him and get nothing in return.
The Spurs had tried for two years to try and get a first round pick for Scola with no takers. Chicago was only offering a 2nd round pick for Scola and nothing more. Nocioni, a first round pick or Duhon were never offered by Chicago.
Spurs weren’t getting any good offers for Butler either and they knew Butler wouldn’t find playing time on the Spurs this season and was to be paid $2.5 million to be the 13th or 14th guy on the roster and they were unlikely to keep him beyond 2008 anyway.
There was a deal in the works yesterday for Butler to go to Sactown and Scola to Cleveland and it fell through but the Spurs weren’t getting anything more in that deal than they did with Houston.
Not even a big man needy New Jersey was willing to give the Spurs anything of value for Butler.
As far as the luxury tax goes, yes the Spurs now are under the luxury tax threshold by a bit but the Butler move was also to open a roster spot and some salary as well as for tax purposes.
Note: The luxury tax a team has to pay is not determined until the last game of the regular season. In this case, April 2008. It’s difficult for teams to do this in April as all contracts are guaranteed by then so it’s more like Feb. 2008 when the trading deadline occurs as that is the last time to move players out. So Butler didn’t have to be moved now to get under the tax threshold. But he did have to be moved now to drop $2.5 mil and at the same time create a roster spot and some wiggle room on signing someone that may be of more value to the team in 2007-2008 than in 2009 or never.
The Spurs have paid small tax in the last 3 years or so but they are going to pay too much over the tax threshold as most teams are now going that route as well, especially with the CBA and luxury tax changes made in the last CBA.
Now back to Scola. The Spurs no longer wanted Scola as a Spur. I have never gotten a straight answer as to their reasoning but it was never about his buyout or him asking for too much money.
Tau dropped his buyout in 2005 and again in 2006 to $3 mil which was reasonable and doable. Nocioni had a similar buyout and received a contract from Chicago that allowed Nocioni to pay the buyout. Scola wanted a 3 year/ $9 million deal last year but the Spurs said that it was too much for a first year player from Europe since they felt they were burned with Oberto after his first year in the NBA. That was the Spurs excuse anyway.
And now it appears Scola will sign a similar deal with the Rockets. It wasn’t about the buyout.
I’ll add more later if I remember if I left out anything.
I’ll let you all digest this before I open this thread up for replies.
I hope he doesn't mind but I am posting coyote_geeks reply to the following question.
Originally Posted by kaji157:
what i don´t understand is why instead of getting spunoulis and a draft pick why the spurs didn´t send butler to one team and scola to another getting 2 different 2nd rounders.
C_G reply:
Because the entire goal behind moving Butler was to get his salary off of the payroll without having to add anyone else's salary in return. That really narrows the field of teams who can help the Spurs because you now have to find a team who A.) wants Butler AND B.) has either cap room, a trade exception, a non-guaranteed contract, or a whiny point guard from Greece who wants to take his ball and go home who can be bought out for damn near nothing.
I believe we're down to Charlotte and Milwaukee as far as teams under the cap and neither of them need a guy like Butler. Cleveland had a trade exception but they've got their own luxury tax issues to deal with so they didn't want him. Seattle and Golden state have big TE's but they're thinking things much grander than Jackie Butler.
Enter Houston. They've got the whiny Greek PG who can be bought out cheaply, and they need a power forward. The Spurs happen to have a power forward in Scola, for whom the best offer received is a 2nd round pick. The rockets don't want Butler, but they need to get Spanoulis off their team and need a PF. The Spurs want a guy like Spanoulis who they can ditch cheaply, they want to get Butler off their team and they need to get something for Scola.
So Houston agrees to pay market value, a 2nd rounder, for Scola and they agree to take Butler in return for the Spurs taking Spanoulis. The rockets even kick in the cash to cover a possible buyout and lux tax hit for Spanoulis, possibly even kicking in some extra cash just to sweeten the pot a bit. The rockets get their power forward, the Spurs get market value for Scola and the ability to make Jackie Butler's contract vanish. Rocket fans rejoice, Spurs fans rebel, but in the end both teams accomplished exactly what they set out to do.
== ==
http://www.spursreport.com/forums/showthread.php?t=71863
== ==
Allow me to interrupt.......
FYI.
Scola was ready to extend his contract with Tau if he wasn't going to come to the NBA this summer and had until the 15th to tell Tau whether he would be coming to the NBA or not.
Here's the kicker, most all the GMs KNEW THIS so they were not going to give the Spurs anything of real value for SCOLA. They were in no way going to help the Spurs in any way in this Scola situation, for them it was either you accept our cheap offers for you don't get him or anything else for him. The Spurs took the best they could do.
For the Spurs it was either sign Scola, take whatever they could for him or just lose him and get nothing in return.
The Spurs had tried for two years to try and get a first round pick for Scola with no takers. Chicago was only offering a 2nd round pick for Scola and nothing more. Nocioni, a first round pick or Duhon were never offered by Chicago.
Spurs weren’t getting any good offers for Butler either and they knew Butler wouldn’t find playing time on the Spurs this season and was to be paid $2.5 million to be the 13th or 14th guy on the roster and they were unlikely to keep him beyond 2008 anyway.
There was a deal in the works yesterday for Butler to go to Sactown and Scola to Cleveland and it fell through but the Spurs weren’t getting anything more in that deal than they did with Houston.
Not even a big man needy New Jersey was willing to give the Spurs anything of value for Butler.
As far as the luxury tax goes, yes the Spurs now are under the luxury tax threshold by a bit but the Butler move was also to open a roster spot and some salary as well as for tax purposes.
Note: The luxury tax a team has to pay is not determined until the last game of the regular season. In this case, April 2008. It’s difficult for teams to do this in April as all contracts are guaranteed by then so it’s more like Feb. 2008 when the trading deadline occurs as that is the last time to move players out. So Butler didn’t have to be moved now to get under the tax threshold. But he did have to be moved now to drop $2.5 mil and at the same time create a roster spot and some wiggle room on signing someone that may be of more value to the team in 2007-2008 than in 2009 or never.
The Spurs have paid small tax in the last 3 years or so but they are going to pay too much over the tax threshold as most teams are now going that route as well, especially with the CBA and luxury tax changes made in the last CBA.
Now back to Scola. The Spurs no longer wanted Scola as a Spur. I have never gotten a straight answer as to their reasoning but it was never about his buyout or him asking for too much money.
Tau dropped his buyout in 2005 and again in 2006 to $3 mil which was reasonable and doable. Nocioni had a similar buyout and received a contract from Chicago that allowed Nocioni to pay the buyout. Scola wanted a 3 year/ $9 million deal last year but the Spurs said that it was too much for a first year player from Europe since they felt they were burned with Oberto after his first year in the NBA. That was the Spurs excuse anyway.
And now it appears Scola will sign a similar deal with the Rockets. It wasn’t about the buyout.
I’ll add more later if I remember if I left out anything.
I’ll let you all digest this before I open this thread up for replies.
I hope he doesn't mind but I am posting coyote_geeks reply to the following question.
Originally Posted by kaji157:
what i don´t understand is why instead of getting spunoulis and a draft pick why the spurs didn´t send butler to one team and scola to another getting 2 different 2nd rounders.
C_G reply:
Because the entire goal behind moving Butler was to get his salary off of the payroll without having to add anyone else's salary in return. That really narrows the field of teams who can help the Spurs because you now have to find a team who A.) wants Butler AND B.) has either cap room, a trade exception, a non-guaranteed contract, or a whiny point guard from Greece who wants to take his ball and go home who can be bought out for damn near nothing.
I believe we're down to Charlotte and Milwaukee as far as teams under the cap and neither of them need a guy like Butler. Cleveland had a trade exception but they've got their own luxury tax issues to deal with so they didn't want him. Seattle and Golden state have big TE's but they're thinking things much grander than Jackie Butler.
Enter Houston. They've got the whiny Greek PG who can be bought out cheaply, and they need a power forward. The Spurs happen to have a power forward in Scola, for whom the best offer received is a 2nd round pick. The rockets don't want Butler, but they need to get Spanoulis off their team and need a PF. The Spurs want a guy like Spanoulis who they can ditch cheaply, they want to get Butler off their team and they need to get something for Scola.
So Houston agrees to pay market value, a 2nd rounder, for Scola and they agree to take Butler in return for the Spurs taking Spanoulis. The rockets even kick in the cash to cover a possible buyout and lux tax hit for Spanoulis, possibly even kicking in some extra cash just to sweeten the pot a bit. The rockets get their power forward, the Spurs get market value for Scola and the ability to make Jackie Butler's contract vanish. Rocket fans rejoice, Spurs fans rebel, but in the end both teams accomplished exactly what they set out to do.
== ==
http://www.spursreport.com/forums/showthread.php?t=71863