So . . . why hasn't Mahinmi been signed?

[objective]

If the Butler move was supposed to help make room for Mahinmi, why isn't he under contract? Add to that the purchasing of the Toros, which you would think was made for guys like Mahinmi, so why isn't he signed?

It's not like there's a lot of negotiating going on with the 1st round scale in place. The salary cap is set, no mysteries there?

Is there still a fair chance that Mahinmi isn't signed by the Spurs for this next season?

[stéphane]

Being objective, because he's thousands miles away from the nba level.

[Mr. Body]

1) He's not good enough.

2) There are other headaches to put down first.

3) It's the weekend.

[Marcus Bryant]

Spurs are trying to sign him for 80% of the rookie scale salary.

[whottt]

The Spurs just spent 20 million on a d-league team for the hell of it...

They have no intention of using it develop their own players.

[timvp]

The Spurs just spent 20 million on a d-league team
:lol

You really think they bought it for $20M?

The Spurs are going to sign Mahinmi but first they need to bring down #50 from the rafters to give to him.

[whottt]

:lol

You really think they bought it for $20M?

The Spurs are going to sign Mahinmi but first they need to bring down #50 from the rafters to give to him.


I wouldn't go that far.

[timvp]

I wouldn't go that far.

Yeah, more like $5-6M tops.

[Chickendog]

guys from what I here the spurs believe they have a bust on their hands

[Chickendog]

mahinmi is not ready for the NBA

[Marcus Bryant]

guys from what I here the spurs believe they have a bust on their hands


Well, I'm convinced.

[objective]

ready or not, bust or not . . . I just think it interesting that he's not signed.

Would Mahinmi's agent be satisfied if Mahinmi left the USA for the french national team workouts (regardless if Mahinmi can play or not) without having a contract signed?

[Bruno]

Mahinmi and his agent should know if Spurs will sign Mahinmi this summer and it's the more important. The official signing (if there is one) can wait a little.

Don't forget too that the Butler trade has been anounced Thursday and was official Friday. Saturday and Sunday aren't working days. I wouldn't be surprised that Mahinmi sign tomorrow with Spurs.

[Bruno]

Would Mahinmi's agent be satisfied if Mahinmi left the USA for the french national team workouts (regardless if Mahinmi can play or not) without having a contract signed?

Mahinmi won't play with the french NT this summer. His roster spot has still be given to someone else.

[objective]

I know he won't play because of the injury, I was just thinking he'd be there in a suit just like he was at the summer league.

[Bruno]

I was just thinking he'd be there in a suit just like he was at the summer league.

No, he won't.

[jag]

mahinmi is not ready for the NBA

What else did you see about his game while scouting?

[whottt]

ready or not, bust or not . . . I just think it interesting that he's not signed.

Would Mahinmi's agent be satisfied if Mahinmi left the USA for the french national team workouts (regardless if Mahinmi can play or not) without having a contract signed?


It's called a roster slot....

Once they sign him, they are commited to it.

Those are in scarce supply these days...or didn't you notice they just gave a HOF'er to Houston to clear one...

[jéjé]

Mahimni is too injuried . He's with the spurs in the summer league but he doesn't play ;

I think the spurs will sign him when the summerleague finish or the spurs want an other workout by mahimni.

[ploto]

It's not defiinite that the Spurs will sign him. Even though they can send him to Austin- do they "waste" one year of his CHEAP rookie contract on that?

[whottt]

I'm pretty sure he can play in Austin without being under contract to the Spurs. Ditto Sanikidze and all their other draftees.

D-Leaguers don't have to be signed to an NBA contract.

[picnroll]

On another board some guy said he ran into Mahinmi at a bar in SA and Mahinmi told him the Spurs were signing him this year fwiw.

[objective]

I'm pretty sure he can play in Austin without being under contract to the Spurs. Ditto Sanikidze and all their other draftees.

D-Leaguers don't have to be signed to an NBA contract.

I couldn't find anything about it at the salary cap faq one way or another.

Has there been an example of it before?

I would think the players union would raise hell over a backdoor circumvention of union salaries and benefits for drafted players who haven't been renounced, while the league would view it as circumventing the salary cap.

[Spurs Brazil]

I hope Spurs sign Mahinmi

I think he won't get much better playing another year in Europe.Put him to work with the Spurs staff and let's hope he can contribute in 09

I don't want to see with him the same what happened with Tiago, who didn't improve his game a lot in his 5 years with Tau

I don't like how the Europe teams deal with young prospects

[Kori Ellis]

I'm pretty sure he can play in Austin without being under contract to the Spurs. Ditto Sanikidze and all their other draftees.

D-Leaguers don't have to be signed to an NBA contract.

I'm not sure about that - particularly for first rounders. Someone should email Larry Coon and ask.

[whottt]

I couldn't find anything about it at the salary cap faq one way or another.

Has there been an example of it before?

I would think the players union would raise hell over a backdoor circumvention of union salaries and benefits for drafted players who haven't been renounced, while the league would view it as circumventing the salary cap.


It's not circumventing anything really...the teams goal is to get them to the NBA...they can't bring them up without signing them. They aren't circumventing the cap or anything any more than if the guy plays in Europe for a year.


How is this any different than if the guy goes to Europe for a year?


Because the Spurs own the team?


I mean the Spurs basically put Mahinimi and Sanikidze where they wanted them already....last year.

They refused to sign them and told them to get better...

How is this any different?

[whottt]

See..there are different rules for European and American players...correct?


Isn't this true?

[whottt]

I just don't see why the Spurs would by a d-league team to develop a guy they are going to cut before the season(White).

If they bought it for one guy...they must be hella high on that guy.

[whottt]

I know the rules are different....

American can players can't be drafted until they've been out of highschool for at least a year or something like that...and the Euros don't have that restriction...they have like a 19 year old age limit or something.

There's probably a loophole in there somewhere.

[whottt]

To me it looks like the NBA would rather guys develop in their development league than in Europe...to maintain the gap...I think that's why they created it.

[Kori Ellis]

I would think that maybe they can sign on the DLeague team, but then they wouldn't be eligible to be called up or something for the season.

Because I would think they can't send them up and down throughout the season unless they are signing them (particularly first rounders because of the salary scale).

There's probably a specific rule for this but I looked in the actual collective bargaining agreement and I didn't see it.

[whottt]

I would think that maybe they can sign on the DLeague team, but then they wouldn't be eligible to be called up or something for the season.

Unless the Spurs sign them at some point during the season...at which point they take a slot, count against the cap...etc.


Because I would think they can't send them up and down throughout the season unless they are signing them (particularly first rounders because of the salary scale).

I agree..and that's why I don't think the NBA would have a problem with it...

Once they bring them up...they get draft pick benefits etc.


Until they bring them up though...I don't see why they couldn't play there to develop.


There's probably a specific rule for this but I looked in the actual collective bargaining agreement and I didn't see it.


Without having squat legal knowledge...my instinct is that any thing that fucks the Euroleague over and keeps them behind the NBA, is going to be something the NBA likes.


IF they count a slot once they get called up...there is no unfair advantage to it IMO...it's no different than the guy playing in Europe...except it's talent that could be in Europe that is instead in the NBA's league.

Europe is catching the NBA...they's been pushing for interleague play, partnership...the contracts in Europe are getting bigger and bigger...players are actually choosing to stay there...

The whole purpose of the D-league is stop that IMO.

[Kori Ellis]

Well I think the issue with a first rounder signing with the DLeague and then being called up is that they are guaranteed X amount of dollars in their first NBA season. So unless there's something like .. if you are called up you will be paid your NBA salary retroactively from the start of the season or something like that, then I'm not sure how it would work.

[whottt]

Well I think the issue with a first rounder signing with the DLeague and then being called up is that they are guaranteed X amount of dollars in their first NBA season. So unless there's something like .. if you are called up you will be paid your NBA salary retroactively from the start of the season or something like that, then I'm not sure how it would work.

I see no problem with that...I don't see that as an obstacle.


I am just not quite sure how it works...I just know teams draft European players all the time and don't sign them for years...including first rounders. Doesn't seem to matter where htye play until they get signed...as long as it's not for another NBA team.


I can't see any reason the NBA would penalize their own development league to encourage teams to leave their players in Europe.

[Kori Ellis]

Another question, you think guys like Mahinmi, Sanikidze, etc would be willing to start the year in DLeague making $2,000 a month rather than overseas making $50K a month?

[whottt]

Justin Williams did it...

[whottt]

Didn't Devin too?

[Kori Ellis]

Justin and Devin weren't drafted. I don't know if a first round pick who hasn't made his NBA money will just suck it up and take 2-3K a month.

[whottt]

The more I think about it the more I could see this being up to the two parties...

Yoiu can't force the player to do it if he doesn't want to do it...but it could be a way for them to reach the NBA more quickly...and that is usually their ultimate goal.


I don't see why it couldn't work that way...if the team stalls too long the kid will just go to Europe.

[whottt]

Justin and Devin weren't drafted. I don't know if a first round pick who hasn't made his NBA money will just suck it up and take 2-3K a month.


Yeah but that wasn't what you asked...you asked if guys would play in the D-league when they could be in Europe making 50k a month...


And players have elected to play in the D-league over Europe...I know for certain Justin Williams did.


Just depends on the guy and how bad he wants to play in the NBA...

I could very much see this being up to the player himself over where he wants to develop.


Team can't force him to do it...at the same time, he might get to the NBA faster if he does it.

[Kori Ellis]

Yeah but that wasn't what you asked...you asked if guys would play in the D-league when they could be in Europe making 50k a month...


And players have elected to play in the D-league over Europe...I know for certain Justin Williams did.

A lot of players have chosen DLeague or CBA when they could have gone to Europe. But I don't know if Mahinmi would.

[whottt]

You know...playing in Europe doesn't always guarantee PT...playing in the d-league will.

[whottt]

A lot of players have chosen DLeague or CBA when they could have gone to Europe. But I don't know if Mahinmi would.


I don't think Mahinimi was real happy about the minutes he got in Europe...but you are right, I don't know if he would or not...he sure does seem like he wants to be in the NBA and be a Spur though.

[Kori Ellis]

You know...playing in Europe doesn't always guarantee PT...playing in the d-league will.

Yeah I know. But there's big difference too ... bus rides and DLeague money might not bother some guys compared jet rides, taxfree money, condos and cars provided by Euroleague teams, etc.

To me, if a player is confident enough they are going to get called up - they should pick DLeague.

[whottt]

Let's look at what we do know...

#1. You don't have to have an NBA contract to play in the D-league. Whether this applies to draft picks or not, we don't know. But you don't have to if you are just Joe player...and teams can reccomend unsigned and undrafted players they are interested in play there....and they can even put them on their affiliated teams...with no NBA contract.


I can't see any rationale for if the guy says...I want to play for the Toros instead of Europe...and the NBA would go..no, you can't...only if you are undrafted.


#2. Teams don't have to sign draft picks right away.

#3. Drafted players go to Europe to develop all the time...with no NBA contract...and sometimes probably even play for the team that is reccomended by the team that drafted them.



Anything else?


You know...Ludden could probably get the answer to this.

[Russ]

Does anyone think Mahinmi's injury was a sham to hide the Spurs' intentions with him and to feature Jackie?

Hmmmm, me neither. :dizzy

[whottt]

The more I think about it...the more I am convinced it's up to the player.

Which means the Spurs could have one hell of a D-league team this year.

[timvp]

The NBA's player union would go buck wild if the NBDL became a place where teams could "force" first round picks to sign. A team could tell a first round pick that they aren't going to sign them and either sign in the NBDL or go to Europe. The only recourse a player has would be to sit out a year. Who many players would be willing to do that?

But let's say for example that Mahinmi signs with the Toros. Could he stay there for two or three years making $2K a month? And then when the Spurs sign him, do they have two more years to send him to the NBDL?

It actually makes sense for the NBA. You could use the NBDL exactly how MLB uses the minor leagues. Teams would stash all late first round picks and second rounders on their NBDL team. They could pay them peanuts as they decide whether they are worth anything.

But the players' association wouldn't go for it. That'd be a huge change in the current system. It'd take some bargaining to get rules in place regarding that. For example, I could see that eventually a player can be assigned to the NBDL without using an NBA roster spot ... but you have to pay them half of the amount they are due on the rookie scale. Plus players would need some option to become a free agent instead of staying in the NBDL for years.

The question I have right now is how it'll work out for next season. From what I can tell, it's not really covered anywhere. I don't think anyone in the league has tried to use the NBDL like the Spurs could potentially use it. My guess is that all of the ways we've come up with to circumvent the traditional rules are not allowed.

I'd be shocked if Mahinmi or even someone like Sanikidze were allowed to play for the Toros without having a contract with the Spurs. I guess we'll see though. Pop wouldn't have been able to convince Holt to buy the Toros if they weren't going to be useful.

[whottt]

I agree...the teams can't force the player to play there if he doesn't want too...anymore than they can force them to play in Europe if they don't want too.


But if it is something that is up to the player...as an alternative to Europe...and the teams are telling their players it might help them get to the NBA quicker if they play in the NBA's minor league instead of Europe...

That thundering noise you just heard was every other team in the NBA running to get a D-league team.


Edit: and that bright light you see is David Stern's smile at his instant minor league system that the teams themselves are footing the bill for...without him having to do so.

[whottt]

The NBA's player union would go buck wild if the NBDL became a place where teams could "force" first round picks to sign. A team could tell a first round pick that they aren't going to sign them and either sign in the NBDL or go to Europe. The only recourse a player has would be to sit out a year. Who many players would be willing to do that?

But let's say for example that Mahinmi signs with the Toros. Could he stay there for two or three years making $2K a month? And then when the Spurs sign him, do they have two more years to send him to the NBDL?

It actually makes sense for the NBA. You could use the NBDL exactly how MLB uses the minor leagues. Teams would stash all late first round picks and second rounders on their NBDL team. They could pay them peanuts as they decide whether they are worth anything.

But the players' association wouldn't go for it. That'd be a huge change in the current system. It'd take some bargaining to get rules in place regarding that. For example, I could see that eventually a player can be assigned to the NBDL without using an NBA roster spot ... but you have to pay them half of the amount they are due on the rookie scale. Plus players would need some option to become a free agent instead of staying in the NBDL for years.

The question I have right now is how it'll work out for next season. From what I can tell, it's not really covered anywhere. I don't think anyone in the league has tried to use the NBDL like the Spurs could potentially use it. My guess is that all of the ways we've come up with to circumvent the traditional rules are not allowed.

I'd be shocked if Mahinmi or even someone like Sanikidze were allowed to play for the Toros without having a contract with the Spurs. I guess we'll see though. Pop wouldn't have been able to convince Holt to buy the Toros if they weren't going to be useful.


What if the player flat out says...I want to play in the d-league, not in Europe...

The NBA is going to say no? You gotta go to Europe?

I don't think they created the D-league for that purpose.

[Gros Membres!]

Makes even more sense why we now have a bunch of second round draft picks for next year - send 'em to the Toros and maybe one of them will pan out.

[ploto]

I have a philosophical problem with it--

If the team drafts you and chooses NOT to sign you, then that team really should have no control over where you choose to play. The team with your draft rights should not be able to exert that kind of control and pressure on you- by saying that you have to play for their NBDL team if you ever want the "parent" NBA team to sign you.

I also wonder about the wording-- it says a non-NBA team- which technically an NBDL team is not an NBA team- but was that the intention.

[x_roux_x]

hmm...why was this asked again?

[pad300]

Justin Williams did it...

Didn't Devin too?

Your examples are Americans - people who have lived in the US all their lives, speak the language, and understand/enjoy the local culture. Hell, they might have trouble getting visas to enter and stay in European countries, depending on what their records look like; lots of kids have possession of Marijuana charges on their records... Not to mention, most European leagues have quotas on the number of foreigners who can play, as well as the need for European work permits, which can be difficult if you are not a superior talent (ie. if there is the possibility that a Euro player can be as good a prospect. For example, the Mexican youth soccer player, Carlos Vela, his rights are owned by Arsenal (bought them when he was 17 I think), but they have yet to be able to get him a work permit to play in Britain, as he had not played for the Mexican senior national team).

On top of this, there is the money thing. The wages in the NBDL are pitiful compared to most of the Euro leagues, and there are no guarantees that any player will ever make the NBA - they could have a crippling injury tomorrow. Until the NBDL wages are competitive, I can't see you getting kids who can get proffesional contracts in Europed...

[spurster]

I thought NBA teams were required to sign their 1st round draft picks. In the case of Euro players, it would be when they become available. So if Mahinmi is free, the Spurs have to offer a contract. If he ends up being a lousy pick, that's just business as usual in the NBA.

[BacktoBasics]

He isn't going to bring anything to the table anyhow. Who cares.

[whottt]

Your examples are Americans - people who have lived in the US all their lives, speak the language, and understand/enjoy the local culture. Hell, they might have trouble getting visas to enter and stay in European countries, depending on what their records look like; lots of kids have possession of Marijuana charges on their records... Not to mention, most European leagues have quotas on the number of foreigners who can play, as well as the need for European work permits, which can be difficult if you are not a superior talent (ie. if there is the possibility that a Euro player can be as good a prospect. For example, the Mexican youth soccer player, Carlos Vela, his rights are owned by Arsenal (bought them when he was 17 I think), but they have yet to be able to get him a work permit to play in Britain, as he had not played for the Mexican senior national team).

On top of this, there is the money thing. The wages in the NBDL are pitiful compared to most of the Euro leagues, and there are no guarantees that any player will ever make the NBA - they could have a crippling injury tomorrow. Until the NBDL wages are competitive, I can't see you getting kids who can get proffesional contracts in Europed...


Oh I agree..but I'm trying to figure out the NBA rules on the issue....not how attractive it is going to be to players, international or otherwise.

It's like anyting else...some guys will do it, and some guys won't...not just International Players, but Americans as well.

It definitely wouldn't be a long term scenario, something they would do for years...we're talking a span of months, to familiarize yourself with the teams system etc. It's an incentive to the guys who want to play in the NBA above and beyond, that are close to the NBA and have a good relationship with the teams that drafted them. If the guys primary concern is financial...he's going to go to Europe...not just interntaional players, but Americans too. The reason Justin Williams did it is because he was mere months away from the NBA.

There will be guys that don't even want to play in the NBA, that won't touch it...some of them Americans...but I wouldn't a blanket statement that no International player would be willing to do it either...if the guy is burning to get into the NBA... he just might, especially if the team is telling him it will speed up the process.

By the same token...some teams may actually want their playerss to develop in Europe because the talent and level of competition are better.

I'm just saying it's an option and an incentive teams can use...and it's one that benefits the NBA, and I'm wondering if the rules allow for it..not if every international player is going to want to to do it. I imagine quite a few of them won't.

[BIG z]

He's injured...