More trade justification & Udoka update

[SenorSpur]

I hope this hasn't already been posted, but more news on the recent Scola trade and the apparent inevitable signing of Udoka.

http://www.hoopsworld.com/article_22768.shtml

Spurs: Scola Trade Explained; Udoka Signing Imminent
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By Bill Ingram
for HOOPSWORLD.com
Jul 14, 2007, 14:12


San Antonio Spurs fans went through the roof when they heard about the trade. It's not official yet because Jackie Butler has to leave Las Vegas to fly to Houston and pass a physical with the Rockets, but pending that the Spurs have traded Butler and the rights to Luis Scola to Houston for Vassilis Spanoulis.

Spurs fans have been up in arms since hearing about the deal. Scola, after all, is an international powerhouse. He's been a big part of Olympic success and has built in chemistry with Spurs stars Manu Ginobili and Fabricio Oberto, who play alongside him for Argentina. He's a 20 and ten guy, and those just don't come along every day. Why would the Spurs trade him for a point guard that didn't play in Houston last year?

No disrespect to V-Span. He's an international star in is own right, and was sold a bill of goods by the Rockets that was cancelled by Jeff Van Gundy. He wound up riding the bench after being told he's be in the rotation, and that's not entirely his fault. He didn't play well in preseason, and for Van Gundy that was enough to justify benching him . . .forever.

This trade wasn't about Spanoulis, any way. It was about finding the heir apparent to Bruce Bowen, and the word out of Portland is that the Spurs have done that. Jason Fleming, who covers the Trail Blazers for Basketball News feels Udoka is the next premier defender in the NBA and often compares him to Bowen. Udoka has a knack for hitting the three (41% in 2006-07), has long arms and the quickness to disrupt passing lanes, and - bonus - he's a decent free throw shooter. Having spent time as both a Laker and a Knick, Udoka didn't really hit his NBA stride until he joined Portland, where he became a regular rotation player and averaged 8.4 points per game last season. He's been getting plenty of love on the free agent market, but it seems the Spurs will be the ones to nab him, offering three years and $12 million.

Of course, the Spurs don't have any cap space, so a trade was needed. Spurs scouts were certain that Scola was never going to join San Antonio. He wants to start, and that just isn't going to happen on a team with Tim Duncan, the league's top power forward. In Houston Scola will start and he'll play a significant role in their success. The Rockets were in desperate need a four, and Scola is exactly what they needed at that position. As a trade off they also took Butler, who is unlikely to be a rotation guy for Houston but could come in and give up a few fouls here and there.

Whether or not Spanoulis comes back to the NBA is really beside the point. He swears he won't, having packed up and moved back to Greece within minutes of the Rockets' season coming to an end. His stance may change if the Spurs say the right things, but ultimately it's not what this deal was about. The Spurs got the cap room they needed to sign their top free agent prospect and they did it by giving up a piece that was never going to be part of the team.

[John McClane]

Hoopsworld? U kiddin me?

[leemajors]

badass, i was waiting for hoopsworld confirmation.

[MrChug]

badass, i was waiting for hoopsworld confirmation.

I actually think Ingram knows where Hoffa is too...

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

I believe this story was linked to in the Ime Udoka thread.

[BacktoBasics]

This guy is the next heir apparent but he's already over 30. What a waste.

[thousandth]

Sorry, but I agree with:


Of course, the Spurs don't have any cap space, so a trade was needed. Spurs scouts were certain that Scola was never going to join San Antonio. He wants to start, and that just isn't going to happen on a team with Tim Duncan, the league's top power forward. In Houston Scola will start and he'll play a significant role in their success. The Rockets were in desperate need a four, and Scola is exactly what they needed at that position. As a trade off they also took Butler, who is unlikely to be a rotation guy for Houston but could come in and give up a few fouls here and there.

[samikeyp]

Remember...this is Bill "The Rocket Guy" Ingram. :blah

[Nathan Explosion]

Hmm, would I want a person people claim is the best PF not playing in the NBA as my starting 4, or do I want the greatest PF to ever play the game who also doubles as the best player on the planet as my starting 4?

Tough call.

The deal makes much more sense now since it seems Scola wouldn't have come over until after Duncan retired.

[thousandth]

C'mon. It's not true that Scola is going to be the next Duncan or Ginobili.
Scola needs always to have protagonism in his teams that Duncan, Ginobili and Parker have got in San Antonio.
And that in the Spurs is impossible now.

[Oh, Gee!!]

Scola will be 40 y.o. by the time he gets to Houston

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Hmm, would I want a person people claim is the best PF not playing in the NBA as my starting 4, or do I want the greatest PF to ever play the game who also doubles as the best player on the planet as my starting 4?

Tough call.

The deal makes much more sense now since it seems Scola wouldn't have come over until after Duncan retired.

I know you're a spin monkey, but Duncan has been our best center since Drob retired, you could start Scola next to Duncan and call Scola a center for purposes of announcing the starting lineup.

The posts (4/5) are interchangeable in the Spurs defense and offense, though obviously the plays are run through TD.

Keep spinning, you're still wrong about this trade.

[yavozerb]

Not to crazy about 3yr/12 mil$ portion of the article..Hope that is not the case, I hope an offer would be more like 3 yr/9-10.5 mil$

[ploto]

Not to crazy about 3yr/12 mil$ portion of the article..Hope that is not the case, I hope an offer would be more like 3 yr/9-10.5 mil$
Saturday's Portland newspaper:

Reports have indicated that Udoka is seeking a contract worth $4 million a year, so the Blazers likely will no longer have enough mid-level room to re-sign him.


http://www.columbian.com/sports/localNews/07142007news168379.cfm

[Mr. Body]

Udoka at $4M/yr is a bit crazy.

[ploto]

Scola will be 40 y.o. by the time he gets to Houston
Actually word is he is bound for Houston this week- literally- as in flying into Houston.

[Nathan Explosion]

I know you're a spin monkey, but Duncan has been our best center since Drob retired, you could start Scola next to Duncan and call Scola a center for purposes of announcing the starting lineup.

The posts (4/5) are interchangeable in the Spurs defense and offense, though obviously the plays are run through TD.

Keep spinning, you're still wrong about this trade.

If Scola could be half the player that Oberto was last year, then maybe I'd call it a dumb trade.

Fact is, Oberto is never going to be a feared player, but he made the plays that needed to be played, and had no ego about it. Scola seems to have an ego about it already. Plus, he wants to play PF, not center. Duncan is the PF. Duncan guards PFs for the most part. Scola would be forced to guard Cs for the most part. In the Spurs system, offensively, there isn't much of a difference. On defense there's a difference between guarding a bigger guy.

You think Scola would want any part of that?

[Mr. Body]

If Scola could be half the player that Oberto was last year, then maybe I'd call it a dumb trade.


It was a dumb trade because the Spurs got little basketball value for him. At some point they changed course and decided to sell him for money and nothing else. They converted a basketball asset into financial assets, which means they were being cheap during a championship run.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

First, I suspect Scola will greatly surpass being 'half the player' Oberto is. That's a lame take.

Second:


Scola would be forced to guard Cs for the most part. In the Spurs system, offensively, there isn't much of a difference. On defense there's a difference between guarding a bigger guy.

You think Scola would want any part of that?

Yeah, because there's so many huge guys in the league for him to have to deal with. :rolleyes Let's see, there's Shaq, and I guess you can call Yao big (though it's more height than girth), and who else is there? Shaq's almost retired.

I guess you can argue Oden, but let's be real here. You think a guy like him is going to go into the fetal position over having to guard someone bigger than him maybe 6-10 times a year?

You obviously don't know shit about what kind of mindset anyone making it to the NBA has, because I can guarantee you that your sorry logic of 'oh no, he's bigger than me' isn't exactly a cause for concern for those guys.

Like I said, you can spin it (and horribly I might add) all you want, it was still the worst trade in franchise history. If not for the basketball side of things as far as what the Spurs got out of it, certainly for their inability to leverage two tradeable assets into something more than a second round pick and 6 million in hooch for Peter Holt.

[jaespur21]

my first post about this trade..... Not ecstatic to see butler go but oh well. i could care less about Scola at this point. and im lookin forward to see Timmy school his ass. may i say F the Fiba refs. and now this talk about Udoka is cool. he played well against us in the january game, and hits the open jumper in the 2k7 videogame so u know thats leading to greatness

[ploto]

Duncan guards PFs for the most part. Scola would be forced to guard Cs for the most part.

Have you been watching the Spurs the past couple of years? Do you not know how many teams against which Duncan guards the center- because so many centers suck on offense and it saves Duncan fouls. Often the other big guy is the one guarding the PF's who are more of the focus on offense and Duncan gets so many of his blocks coming on help defense.

And as for those centers- did not people see last season, that Duncan guarded Yao better than any one else left on the team?

[Leetonidas]

This guy is the next heir apparent but he's already over 30. What a waste.
He's only 29 and will be 30 in August. Bowen was 30 when the Spurs got a hold of him, and look what he became. A 3-time champ. :dramaquee

[Supergirl]

I had no idea Udoka was already 29 years old. He's only been in the league 3 years (according to nba.com) but he actually graduated from college, unlike many NBA players. And it took him a couple years to work his way into the NBA.

He's an excellent defender, hard worker, and can hit the outside shot - 40% already and that's not even playing with Tim Duncan, which usually makes people's outside shooting touch improve.

Sound like anyone we know? This guy would be a solid back up to Bowen.

[ploto]

He's an excellent defender, hard worker, and can hit the outside shot - 40% already and that's not even playing with Tim Duncan, which usually makes people's outside shooting touch improve.

Sound like anyone we know? This guy would be a solid back up to Bowen.
Yes, but are you willing to give him more per season than Bruce got on his last contract? Because supposedly that is what he is asking for.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Have you been watching the Spurs the past couple of years? Do you not know how many teams against which Duncan guards the center- because so many centers suck on offense and it saves Duncan fouls. Often the other big guy is the one guarding the PF's who are more of the focus on offense and Duncan gets so many of his blocks coming on help defense.

And as for those centers- did not people see last season, that Duncan guarded Yao better than any one else left on the team?

Don't confuse him with facts like that ploto, it gets in the way of his perfect little world of BS.

[Supergirl]

Yes, but are you willing to give him more per season than Bruce got on his last contract? Because supposedly that is what he is asking for.

What players can expect for salary has skyrocketed since Bowen signed his contract.

Fact is, the Spurs have a pretty intact roster right now, and not a lot of playing time available. Udoka is a no-ego guy who plays hard and should fit in well, sharing time with Bowen.

Scola is all ego, near as I can tell. The more I hear about this situation, the more I think Scola didn't want to come here because he looked at the Spurs and saw a team that already had a superstar at his position. Yes, maybe he could start alongside Tim. But it requires a low ego kind of player to do that.
Now, will Scola get to be The Man over in Houston? I doubt it. He'll be competing with Yao and Tracy. But on the other hand, Tracy will be injured for 50% of the games, so then maybe Scola can take over. We'll see.

The point is, as I'm rambling, the Spurs don't really have a place for Scola, not the kind of place he wants. So the best thing they could do is clear the roster spot for someone they actually need - Udoka is that kind of player. Another back up PG would also be good. beyond that, I think the Spurs should be all set to repeat.

[SpursChampsIII]

Udoka at $4M/yr is a bit crazy.

Not at all crazy when you consider you are getting another shut down perimeter defender. NBA fans outside of San Antonio will REALLY think we're boring when we slap even more defense on their asses. Also, I would think he would be an even bigger 3-point threat here with Duncan in the middle. This guy is a tough SOB and well worth 4M per year...especially for only 3 years.

[zapanther]

why is butt-ler sooo liked...he lost 30 lbs and was still a fat ass .. he would have had no play time behind fab and elf-son.he is just a blob who can't move..rc was just talking him up for the trade.

[mystargtr34]

Im not sure about $12m for Udoka, we could probably get Outlaw for an extra $3m per - a guy with more defensive potential and borderline star potential.

[Mr. Body]

Not at all crazy when you consider you are getting another shut down perimeter defender.

He's not a shut down perimeter defender.

[clubalien]

Have you been watching the Spurs the past couple of years? Do you not know how many teams against which Duncan guards the center- because so many centers suck on offense and it saves Duncan fouls. Often the other big guy is the one guarding the PF's who are more of the focus on offense and Duncan gets so many of his blocks coming on help defense.

And as for those centers- did not people see last season, that Duncan guarded Yao better than any one else left on the team?


I do agree duncan does dog it on defense and plays the worst offensive player

man the days we had david robinson a skilled , athletic big man that coudl guard .. basicly david always shutdown shaq, duncan coudl never do that to shaq

[K-State Spur]

I do agree duncan does dog it on defense and plays the worst offensive player

man the days we had david robinson a skilled , athletic big man that coudl guard .. basicly david always shutdown shaq, duncan coudl never do that to shaq

he did dog it a bit in the regular season this past season, but that was really a first and wasn't the case after the new year.

and timmy also does not guard the worst offensive player. but he often plays the second best post man to save fouls and allow him to play more help defense - where he is arguably the best in the league. you also won't see him leave his man all alone for wide open dunks to pad his shot block totals like you would last year's 'defensive player of the year' Camby.

as for shaq, robinson did do a great job on him - but that corresponded with the admiral's prime vs. shaq's baby years. once shaq was in his prime, he got his against even a healthy admiral. but, on the rare occasion when timmy was matched up with shaq during the lakers' runs, tim still held his own.

i don't think anybody would claim that he is the defender that david was, but it's closer than you are making it out to be.

[ArgSpursFan]

C'mon. It's not true that Scola is going to be the next Duncan or Ginobili.
Scola needs always to have protagonism in his teams that Duncan, Ginobili and Parker have got in San Antonio.
And that in the Spurs is impossible now.

Not really,In the Arg National team Manu and Chapu are the 1st 2 options.them the rest.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Im not sure about $12m for Udoka, we could probably get Outlaw for an extra $3m per - a guy with more defensive potential and borderline star potential.

Don't let that little thing called the salary cap get in your way...

[mystargtr34]

dw i wont. s&t

[justanotherspursfan]

Don't confuse him with facts like that ploto, it gets in the way of his perfect little world of BS.
Oh come on. I love the world of PR and marketing where nothing is ever actually a fact that can be tested in the real world, and any claim is viable as long as it's not completely self-contradictory.

SI says the Spurs are the best front office in basketball. Therefore, every move they make is the best move. Therefore this was a good trade. QED.

[Spurs Dynasty 21]

badass, i was waiting for hoopsworld confirmation.



:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

[michaelwcho]

Oh come on. I love the world of PR and marketing where nothing is ever actually a fact that can be tested in the real world, and any claim is viable as long as it's not completely self-contradictory.

SI says the Spurs are the best front office in basketball. Therefore, every move they make is the best move. Therefore this was a good trade. QED.

Dude, you get it :)

[ploto]

What players can expect for salary has skyrocketed since Bowen signed his contract.

Fact is, the Spurs have a pretty intact roster right now, and not a lot of playing time available. Udoka is a no-ego guy who plays hard and should fit in well, sharing time with Bowen.

Scola is all ego, near as I can tell. The more I hear about this situation, the more I think Scola didn't want to come here because he looked at the Spurs and saw a team that already had a superstar at his position. Yes, maybe he could start alongside Tim. But it requires a low ego kind of player to do that.
Now, will Scola get to be The Man over in Houston? I doubt it. He'll be competing with Yao and Tracy. But on the other hand, Tracy will be injured for 50% of the games, so then maybe Scola can take over. We'll see.

The point is, as I'm rambling, the Spurs don't really have a place for Scola, not the kind of place he wants. So the best thing they could do is clear the roster spot for someone they actually need - Udoka is that kind of player. Another back up PG would also be good. beyond that, I think the Spurs should be all set to repeat.
Is that a yes or a no. Yes you will give him $4M per year or no?

[ploto]

and timmy also does not guard the worst offensive player. but he often plays the second best post man to save fouls and allow him to play more help defense - where he is arguably the best in the league.
You do realize that the "second best post man" many times is the worst offensive player- or at least the fourth or fifth option on offense. It is not an insult to Tim to admit the truth- even when Rasho was on the Spurs, he ended up guarding a lot of PF's. It is one of the misnomers about "small ball" versus Dallas. Truth is- Dallas does not play a small line-up; they play a 7' center and a 7' PF. Duncan guards the center like he does so many times. It is the nature of the 7' PF that is the challenge.

[K-State Spur]

You do realize that the "second best post man" many times is the worst offensive player- or at least the fourth or fifth option on offense.

That's often the case, but that doesn't mean that the intent is to match Timmy up with the worst offensive player on the other team. That just occurs depending on the match-up.

For example, against Utah, he was usually matched up with the first, second, or third offensive option on the floor.