Interview by Spanoulis in a Greek newspaper

[spurscenter]

This is a little old from jan. but says alot


A new interview by Spanoulis in a Greek newspaper:

http://www.enet.gr/online/online_text/c=115,id=23616948

"Things weren't as I expected them in Houston. If I knew that, I would have probably stayed in Europe this year. I was promised a guaranteed playing time, that's how they convinced me to come. The GM of the team was in Athens frequently, they were calling me on the phone every day. So much money, so much attention, so much interest, just for me to play for 1 minute or not at all? Even now, (the administration people) approach me all the time, they tell me they believe in me, they encourage me, they show me that they love me. If they didn't count on me they would just ignore me but they care a lot about me. When I talked to Van Gundy, he told me that the GM chose the players and not him. "I'm just coaching the team" he said. This sounds like a lack of communication between him and the administration, like they're playing ego games. You want to know the craziest thing? If I judge from what the coach asks of me, he doesn't know at all what kind of player I am! He tells me he wants to make me into a "spot shooter". He wants my teammates to create open shots for me. Everyone knows though that my game is based on creation, not execution. I never said I was an authentic shooter. This isn't my strength nor do I enjoy playing like that. This situation irritates me. There has to be a solution but I don't know what it will be.

Since I'm not enjoying what I'm doing, yes, I might return to Europe. I don't believe the Rockets will let me go so easily though. They wouldn't want to admit that they made a mistake with me. The GM told me that I belong here and that they want to keep me for years. They can't put chains on me though. We're talking about my life and my career. I knew how difficult things were for other great European players, like Jasikevicius, Macijauskas, even for the late Petrovic, but I feel like I was cheated since they promised me that I would have a leading role on the team.

I don't believe that I had my chance and blew it. My coach praised me everytime I played. From what my teammates told me, never in the past has he been so positive and said so many good words about a "rookie". There's always the possibility that I might leave, it doesn't depend on me but they can't keep me a prisoner here either. Anything is possible, even going to another NBA team. The thought of giving up so soon makes me even more stubborn and willing to try but my main concern is feeling good with myself wherever I am, even if I was on the Moon. I don't want to violate my own values, especially since I feel I was deceived. It doesn't make me feel good.

I don't regret coming to the NBA. I wouldn't be Vasilis if I hadn't come. I would have it as a repressed desire for the rest of my life. I'm proud to be in the NBA. Now I know how it is. I came and saw it from the inside. In the future I'll be able to judge situations better now that I know first-hand what playing in the NBA means for a player. They say to me that things would be better if I was here in the summer and worked with the team but that was impossible since we had the World Cup.


I talk often with Panathinaikos people. They call me to learn how I'm doing, to wish me on holidays, that kind of stuff. We are connected by love and there isn't the slightest difference between us. Panathinaikos respected my decision to go to the NBA and didn't try to stop me, so they'll be my first choice if I ever come back. I don't think this will happen now though, in the middle of the year. The GM wouldn't want to lose face by letting me go only after 4 months.

I never had so much free time to improve my game. I'm spending all my time on the court, so don't worry about the national team, you'll see a Spanoulis who will be even better than last year. I'm working on aspects of the game I wasn't good enough and I'm in the mood for even more work and improvement. I'm on a very good physical condition right now and emotionally I don't have any problems. At this point in my life, only basketball interests me. I don't have any confidence problems. Quite the opposite. I'm just being patient until the better days come.

I'm an egoist and a stubborn person and I'll fight to the end for any chance I can get. If I was in a different team, I could even have been "rookie of the year". So it's a matter of luck and coincidence as well. It's not right to give up on your ambitions so easily. Even the greatest players in history had difficult moments in their careers."

[spurscenter]

Read this, pretty insightful too

He didnt get along with JVG.



Spanoulis struggles with lack of playing time
Rockets rookie growing impatient with inactivity

By FRAN BLINEBURY
Copyright 2007 Houston Chronicle

RESOURCES
James Nielsen: Chronicle
Vassilis Spanoulis had his best workout against the Warriors last month.
SPANOULIS' MINUTES
SEASON HIGHS
23 vs. Golden State on Dec. 5
19 vs. LA Lakers on Dec. 23
17 vs. Washington on Nov. 22
SEASON LOW
Zero, many times including the last five games. (Spanoulis has played only a total of two minutes in the 11 games since Dec. 29.)
more rockets links

Vassilis Spanoulis was right in the middle of the action that afternoon in Japan last summer, driving the lane, making slick passes, running the pick-and-roll, nailing 3-pointers to help Greece bring down Team USA at the World Basketball Championship.

Now, on most nights, he loosens up before the national anthem, then sits on the Rockets' bench.

Spanoulis left Athens and his hometown fans with Panathinaikos to make the step up to the NBA, figuring his emotion, his energy, his overwhelming confidence would carry him straight to the top on the game's biggest stage.

Spanoulis came to Houston to join Yao Ming and Tracy McGrady and, in his mind, put the Rockets over the top.

Now Yao is sidelined with a broken leg, and the rookie guard feels like he's hit bottom.

"I came here to help my team, to put my talent on it and do many things," Spanoulis said. "I am a patient person. But I don't want to stay on the bench for the season. I came here to work hard and to play in the games."

Spanoulis says he is puzzled why the Rockets drafted him and worked so hard to sign him to a three-year contract in the first place. He believes coach Jeff Van Gundy is trying to change him from a penetrating creator into a spot shooter.

"It is like asking a doctor to be a lawyer," Spanoulis said, smiling and shaking his head at his own analogy.

"Maybe they don't know what my strength is. Because every time I play, I don't play to my strength. I was used to playing good defense, pressing all over the court, running on offense, playing a lot of pick-and-rolls and creating. Now they want me to be a spot shooter, and this is a different experience. "

He was quoted over the weekend in a Greek newspaper as saying: "There's always the possibility that I might leave. It doesn't depend on me, but they can't keep me a prisoner either."

When asked in the Rockets' locker room, Spanoulis would not go that far.

"It is far too early to say I want to leave," he said. "But I get a lot of calls. It is hard for me. I have 10 million people in Greece and people all over Europe — they expected me to play and to succeed."

So, too, do the Rockets, who gave Spanoulis $3.7 million in guaranteed money for this season and next. But their timetable is different. The Rockets see him as someone who will be valuable in the future, and he wants to play right now.

"This is what I've told him," said Van Gundy. "It is absolute naivete about how hard this league is to think that it's going to be an easy ride for any young player. Especially a young player who is going to a pretty good team with pretty good perimeter players.

"What Billy's going through is exactly what I expected would happen when I spoke to him over the summer. His response was one that worried me. 'Basketball is basketball.' As I said to him, no, I played basketball. This is a whole different animal."

Rockets general manager Carroll Dawson likely could trade Spanoulis to a handful of other NBA teams today, but he isn't looking to do that.

"We like the player we signed," Dawson said. "But there's a process you go through. (Dirk) Nowitzki had to go through it. Look at guys like (Toronto's Jose) Calderon, (Orlando's Carlos) Arroyo. Even the late Drazen Petrovic, who they all look up to. It took him four years to make an impact. We want this kid here."

Spanoulis has averaged just 10 minutes in 18 of the Rockets' first 41 games. He's shooting 31.1 percent and has 20 assists and 18 turnovers. He has been out of the regular rotation since Dec. 14, when he shot 0-for-5 in 17 minutes at Golden State.

"I work to get better," he said. "But how do I get better if I do not play? I know I can play. I know what I can do. I can make great things here."

Van Gundy nods his head.

"(Spanoulis) says, 'I was McGrady back home.' Great. McGrady is McGrady here," Van Gundy said.

"I feel badly for him. He feels he was misled. Frankly, he's been his own worst enemy in many ways. Some of it is excuses. His turnovers have been high; his fouls have been high; his shooting percentage has been low. I would rather anybody start out with self-evaluation — what can I do better? — versus lash out and blame.

"Because I'm not playing him now doesn't mean he won't play in the future or we don't feel he could be a good player. I think he's allowed his disappointment to go to discouragement, which has, at times, stunted his improvement. We'll see. We'll see."

[email protected]://images.chron.com/photos/2006/12/23/4882668/311xInlineGallery.jpg

[TDMVPDPOY]

him comparin himself to tmac?

prime or broke back tmac > yawho?

[whottt]

A PG has to have a huge ego...if you don't think Tony has one...you are wrong.



Secondly...I was reading the Wiki article...

Check this out...where the bad blood started:

This meant that Spanoulis essentially agreed to play for Houston at a price of $1,944,000 per season for 3 years, passing up on Panathinaikos's offer of $3,300,000 per season over 5 years,


This dude turned down some serious freaking Euro jack to play in the NBA. 6 million vs 15 million...


just for a chance of playing in the NBA. Eventually, there was a falling out between Spanoulis and the team's coach Van Gundy, after Van Gundy benched Spanoulis after he played very poorly, citing that rookie players are dangerous for coaches that are in contract years


I'm sorry but that's an asshole comment by JVG...and it's not the first one he's made...hanging his career failure on a rookie...

Man up.

I'm not calling this kid Vaginis anymore...

Dude gives up 9 mil to be in the NBA....



and that Spanoulis was too foul prone and lacking in outside shooting touch to be a good fit in Van Gundy's offensive system.


You know what...every one says he's 6'3 shooting guard that can't shoot...



You know what the means he is?

Tony Fucking Parker part 2....with Manu's creativity.

A traditional PG sucks on our team because all Pop wants them to do is slash to the basket...that's why every PG on the roster does it.

But a slashing shooting guard? The perfect PG for this team.


The Spurs were high on this dude..timvp and AHF were high on this dude.

The article you posted said the execs were all in love with him...


I wonder if one of those execs just happened to be Lindsey...and I wonder if that wasn't part of the reason the Spurs hired Lindsey in the first place.



There's more here than meets the eye...


And the best thing about this kid having a huge ego and mark for the NBA?


It's going to be irresistable for him to refuse the call of the NBA champs....

It got to stroke this kids ego and the chance of showing Van Gundy up has got to be irresistable to him.

On top of that...the Spurs have the type of international roster this kid is used too...all the damn guys on it played in Europe and for those same teams he played on.


The kid talks unusual for to us...but he's Greek...they are emotional like that.



To me it is not out of hte realm of possibility that the Spurs wanted this dude all along.

I know they want to move Beno and Barry...and I know the reason they didn't was because they didn't have a PG...and they still don't.

I do not think the Spurs are satisfied with Vaughn as their back up...and Beno is long since done in SA.

IF the Spurs want this guy...I think can get him...


And if they get him...and Udoka...guess what? Brent and Beno are gone...and they save even more money in the process....not to mention whatever they can get for Beno and Barry.



I just don't think this offseason is over and I don't see how anyone can draw that conclusion...

Whether the Spurs are being cheap..or whether they are trying to improve...the path is the same....more is going to be done.




Hmmm...


What made him tradeable was the fact that he said he didn't want to play in the NBA anymore period...

I wonder if that happened before or after Lindsey was hired by the Spurs...

Interesting..indeed.


One thing is for sure...the way the Rockets didn't want to lose this kid, even with him saying he wasn't going to play for the Rockets anymore...it was hell getting him out of them...he must have some serious game.






All this of course ignores the fact that he says he wants guranteed pt...that's a problem. He's a lot like Scola....he's just not our Scola...he's the Rockets Scola. Nontheless...we need a back up PG more than we need Scola.

[sabar]

JVG broke him.
I think he'd be a perfect backup, but I doubt he'll stay in the U.S.

[spurscenter]

whott nice post. i liked it.

Yea, my feelings for the dude have changed.

He NEVER complained about MONEY it was about playing basketball.

you gotta respect that.

he wants to play and Win.

period.

Ill take him on my team anyday.

except Ill take Scola first and then him.

[whottt]

Something else is interesting too...

I read that Sandick has already gone gack to Georgia...


Isn't it fucking weird how all the Spurs top prospects are suddenly invisible?

White...Ian..Sandick.

It's almost like...thes Spurs don't want anyone asking for them.


I mean they couldn't hide Sanikidze fast enough and he's already out of the country. They brought him here and didn't play him...


And that kid looked fucking good...if you ask me, he was the best looking player on the Summer League team.


It's like...they got something working...and they don't want anyone holding out for their top guys.

The only one that is exposed is Williams....who sucks.


And he's being featured...just like Jackie was.

[spurscenter]

like Robertas Javtokas , he is also really good but hidden.

I dont understand the drafting of the kid from arizona at all. I wish we got Glen Davis or someone else.

I saw that kid play UCLA alot and he was just average for college IMO.

I think james White is going to be a very good player but the spurs have little room and little PT for people like him to develop.

I wish EVERY TEAM had a TRIPLE AAA, that each team owns and can put 12 people in that roster and not count agaisnt your salary cap.

Its all backwards. really.

NBA needs a true minor league system at least 1 level , a triple aaa and all 12 players belong to that team.

Granted u cant pay millions but u can then keep james white there for a year, send down beno udrich a couple of times if u like to work on his game.

J. Williams would be starting PG for the Toros and he could develop. Sandiske too. Robertas Javtokas too.

Know what we have.

I guess thats where the Euroleagues come in and where they can pay more$$$$. but

a triple aaa system in cities where it can support the fan base is something long over due.

NBDL is great and slowly getting there but its still stubbornly applying rules that just hurt it, i.e. salary cap counts agaisnt your team, etc.

I sent Stern a letter like 2 years ago with a detail minor league plan for NBDL and then this past year we saw the expansion from just the eastern area, NC area to a much wider appeal. NO it wasnt because of my stupid letter of course, but at least I got a letter back from them saying, keep spending money at the games. thanks. lol

to me, its like they got some interns and C crew running the NBDL operations because the bread and butter is the NBA. OF COURSE.

I bet though, that each team if told, they can own and operate their own triple AAA, would so so if they can develop and keep at 12 players.

This shared system of 3 teams sharing one NBDL is stupid.

You cant teach your system , say Seattle cant go in there and teach their offense with Durant , etc.

Its just for them to play ball and put up stats, no true help for the NBA team.

Spurs did great buying the Toros. I think Pop saw the true value of doing this.

And of course, NOW every team will follow and buy their own NBDL team and we will see a true MINOR LEAGUE system in say, 2-3 years.

other teams copy the spurs all the time and their moves.

[Streakyshooter08]

I wonder if the Spurs already wrote off Spanoulis, or if they are trying to convince him to come back. Did Spanoulis or his agent already make a official annoucement about his future?

[spurscenter]

I wonder if the Spurs already wrote off Spanoulis, or if they are trying to convince him to come back. Did Spanoulis or his agent already make a official annoucement about his future?

I think 99.9 percent he is not coming to the USA to play at least for a year or two.

The only way he will come and I think its a long shot is if Pop directly calls Spino and tells him.

But Pop wont promise him PT just like JVG. But I think Pop will be a better teacher for him than JVG.

Even with Pop calling , its still 001. percent he will come.

I think he knows he burned some bridges even if only in Houston.

But I dont think he got a good shake from JVG.

[Streakyshooter08]

I also don't expect him to suit up but I wonder why there has been no official statement yet.

[whottt]

I wonder if the Spurs already wrote off Spanoulis, or if they are trying to convince him to come back. Did Spanoulis or his agent already make a official annoucement about his future?


Nope...not yet. And that's interesting too...AFAIK. Would the Spurs even make an official announcement over something like this?

You are German streaky..closer to Europe than we are...is there anything on the Euroleague sites?

I am sure the first thing we will hear is that Pathanikos is going to sign him.


Then again...today might be the day they buy him off.


I can see a lot of primadonnish qualities in this kid that will turn the Spurs off...and me. At the same time...if he's talented enough, the Spurs will kiss his butt to get him here to get a better look at him.

I've seen the Spurs and Pop...kiss butt like there's no tomorrow to get talent here...that's where Pop is different from guys like Van Gundy...he's been a GM, so he's done the schmoozing part...I mean Pop spent the first 3 years of Duncan's career kissing Duncan's butt like it was Marilyn Monroe.

Pop is able to pull off the hardazz thing because he suceeds in getting the players to believe he truly cares about him.


...and he knows how to be a hardazz without alienating the players in the process.

[AFBlue]

I wonder if the Spurs already wrote off Spanoulis, or if they are trying to convince him to come back. Did Spanoulis or his agent already make a official annoucement about his future?

This situation is made more interesting by the fact that the Spurs are apparently still looking to add pieces to this roster. If the purpose had been to dump salary, I don't think that'd be the case.

I think in regards to Spanoulis it's a no-lose situation. If the Spurs convince him to come back over, they ditch Beno's contract and essentially backfill him with an upgrade in Spanoulis. If they can't convince him to come over that's cap space for the future.

[whottt]

If this kid is so talented though...wouldn't it be pretty stupid on the part of the Spurs to not at least try to get him to sign?

And all this stuff about him not wanting to play in America is BS...that wasn't what he was saying at first....his problems were 100% with the Rockets. And he gave up 9 million dollars to be in the NBA...how could that kind of dream die so easily?


Scola said similar stuff about being happy to stay with Tau and not caring about the NBA...

Plus he's greek so a lot of his statements sound exaggerated to us.

I just don't know...

I just think the Spurs would be stupid to throw away a talented PG without at least trying to sign him...if he's this good. So good that the Rockets fired Van Gundy and hired an uptempo coach, that plays his style of basketball, to tempt him to return? Perhaps?

So good that the Spurs hired a FO executive just for the purpose of increasing their chances of aquiring and signing him?

Talent is scarce...I wouldn't put anything past the Spurs...

They just bought a damn d-league team....for someone.

A PG to gurantee pt to maybe?

What would the Spurs be willing to do to get a second Manu?





I mean if Greg Oden said he didn't want to play in the NBA would the Spurs just say feh...buy him off and take the money....hell no.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Great thread, fellas.

Pop went to Slovenia to woo Rasho, but that was for a starting centre not a guy who could be anything from backup PG to behind Brent Barry in the rotation.

Pity it seems he'll stay in Europe, because I'd like to see what he has to offer our team, but there was all sorts of money in the trade to buy him out so I guess if he'll ever come back to the NBA it will be in a few seasons.

[whottt]

Great thread, fellas.

Pop went to Slovenia to woo Rasho, but that was for a starting centre not a guy who could be anything from backup PG to behind Brent Barry in the rotation.

Pity it seems he'll stay in Europe, because I'd like to see what he has to offer our team, but there was all sorts of money in the trade to buy him out so I guess if he'll ever come back to the NBA it will be in a few seasons.


How often to backup PG's get 15 million dollar contracts in Europe?


And last I checked...the Greeks just kicked every team in the World's butt in WC's...was this kid part of the reason? Was he the reason?


I already know Diamantos is a bad azz...

Although it does seem like the Greeks are kind of difficult to actually get out of Greece...

[Streakyshooter08]

@whottt: There has been absolutly nothing on Euro Sites.(Besides the regular trade announcement). No word on his future yet. Maybe it was because it was weekend an nobody was available.:) There are a few greek posters in a german forum that think Spanoulis could consider playing for the Spurs but I doubt they are insiders. I think we gonna hear somthing within the next few days.

[whottt]

The Spurs aren't in a position to just let Manu Parker type talent slip through their fingers.....

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

I also particularly agree that the NBA needs a true AAA system. I think it would benefit the league too, adding another level of depth to keep fans interested. For example, the draft could be expanded and a lot more College players given an opportunity to develop in a AAA league that paid players a living wage, bringing with them the attention of some College basketball fans who follow marginal players that don't make the NBA. It would also improve the quality of American basketball by allowing more players to develop in strongly structured environments, allowing diamonds in the rough or late developers to emerge.

[whottt]

Well he's obviously got a huge ego...it's got to be tempting to him.


And the Spurs are the international franchise in the NBA...with lots of happy players that played in Europe and understand the culture. And Pop understands it too...


Parker
Manu
Oberto
Bonner
Bowen
Elson

I am sure we had some other guys play in Europe I just can't think of right now.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

The Spurs aren't in a position to just let Manu Parker type talent slip through their fingers.....

Let's not overblow him, but you're absolutely right. They should make every effort to convince him to stay and give him a year in our system. If it's not working out for either party they can reach a buyout later.

His potential is intriguing... never enough good slasher types on a team, and we could do with another to put next to Tony and Manu given that Fin and Barry are spot-up shooters and Bowen travels every second time he puts it on the floor going to the hole! :lol Still love ya Bruce! ;)

[whottt]

Something else to think about...

The Spurs do play uptempo...

Van Gundy had the ugliest offense in the NBA...and with Yao...there is no way that team was ever going to be uptempo with Yao on it...even if Van Gundy left...and I been saying this to people as well about the problems the Rockets are going to have fitting Adelman, Yao and Scola together.

Adelman does like to have his bigmen run the offense in the half court...but he also likes to run...and you just can't do that with Yao. I don't care what you do...it aint happening.

Contrary to what BSPN says..the Spurs have arguably the best uptempo guard tandem in the NBA, eh probably second after Barbosa and Nash...but anyone that knows basketball knows they can play uptempo...it's just the idiots here that don't realize it.

It's possible this kid did not want to play with Yao...and Yao is the keystone of the Rockets...for better or for worse.

[Streakyshooter08]

One thing is for sure, the trade would make more sense if Spanoulis came over. Like timvp pointed out: as it looks right now the trade is hard to rationalize assuming Spanoulis does not come over. They would have dumped a lot more salary by trading Barry/Beno. It will be interesting how this thing turns out.

[whottt]

If I was the Spurs the guys I would have talking to him are Manu and Parker...they all speak the same basketball language.

[inconvertible]

if anyone had a right to talk shit like that it would be manu.....and he never has.

this dude is a loser.

[whottt]

but there was all sorts of money in the trade to buy him out so I guess if he'll ever come back to the NBA it will be in a few seasons.


And that money could also be as insurance in case the Spurs can't get him.


If you are looking at it through Vassilis eyes...

The NBA Champions just gave up the European MVP for a chance to sign him....

[whottt]

if anyone had a right to talk shit like that it would be manu.....and he never has.

this dude is a loser.

Have you seen him play? I haven't. If he's talented enough...he can do it..

Scola isn't...as is obvious by watching him play.


besides, what shit is he talking? He wants to go home?

After Van Gundy scapegoated him? After he gave up 9 million to be there?

After they promised him PT and then renegged on the deal?

Van Gundy sounds like the asshole to me...

Don't promise the kid PT and get him to give up 9 million dollars and then not follow through with it...that's bullshit.


Just don't promise him the PT...

Obviously...he wanted to be in the NBA badly if he gave up 9 million to do it. They could have gotten him without that promise...

And I can promise you that the Spurs won't do something fucked up like that...


He hasn't talked shit about the Spurs yet...

I'd rather get him here...see him play...then decide if he can talk shit like that...whatever that was.

[mountainballer]

when I first heard about the trade of Scola and Butler for V-Span, I was like "of course, makes perfect sense" and I was sure, that he had agreed to come back again to play for the Spurs.

looking at the Spanoulis of 2006, it would have been a wash when considering the talent.
Spanoulis was simply great and he played his best games against Tau in the quaterfinals (which Panathineikos lost in 3 close games). so it did make sense that the Spurs back then did get a great impression, assuming that they scouted Scola. Scola also played good in that series (at least in two of the three games, the third was very bad), but Spanoulis was the best player on the court in each of the three games. (averaging 16.3 PPG on ridiculous 71%FG along with 3.6 APG)
I'm sure that the Spurs back then thought like: wow, if we somehow could trade this Spanoulis guy for Scola, we would do it in a second.
so, no matter how bad he did this season in Houston, I'm still sure Spanoulis could do quite well in the NBA, because I can't see him have lost all his talent on the trip over the atlatic.

so, it was just the second impression, when I learned, taht it is very unlikely that he will come to SA and that the whole deal was about dumping salary in the first place.
in other words: the whole trade looks ugly, when he stays in Europe. but if the FO thought they find a way to get him here, the trade might have a huge upside for the Spurs.

but as the most comments tell, it's an almost zero chnce that he will come. very sad though. I think he might have fit great.
(btw. if not mentioned before. Spanoulis can defend with the best. at least in Euroleague he did so.)

[magic]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XT7uOvKGvR8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3BBKdtcCG_I
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-MiH4LEYp8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0PVgv_0gLo

[whottt]

. (averaging 16.3 PPG on ridiculous 71%FG along with 3.6 APG)

Spanoulis can defend with the best




Holy shit...there's not a chance in fucking hell the Spurs aren't trying to get this guy...


He is Parker part 2...he might be better.

[Kermit]

Holy shit...there's not a chance in fucking hell the Spurs aren't trying to get this guy...


He is Parker part 2...he might be better.
So wait, you went from Vaginas to "this guy is better than TP" in less than 24 hours. That's got to be a record.

Nevermind. I think I see your facetiousness shining through.

[whottt]

So let's see...

Gets drafted with the 50x pick:

Rockets FO: Hi Vasillis we sure are excited to have you on our team.

Vasillis: Well thank you. I love to play in the NBA, it's my dream, but Pathanikos has just offered me nearly 3 times the amount I can make in the NBA to stay here and I have my family to think about.

Rockets FO: mutters to self*coughfuckmecough* 15 million Vasillis? That's nothing, in just 3 years you can be a star signing a 100 million dollar contract...and play in the NBA, with Yao and TMac.

Vasillis: Well that's very tempting, but I am not sure how I fit on your team and what happens if I wind up on the bench like so many European PG's do?

Rockets FO: That won't happen. You'll start, we promise.

Vasillis: I am there but I have to represent my country first.

RocketS FO: Not a problem.

Vasillis: It's done then, see you in September.

Rockets FO: Ok Vassy baby..see you then.

Calls Van Gundy

Rockets FO: Jeff, great news, we got your starting part guard, he's like a 6'3 version of Manu.

JVG: Great

Rockets FO: You have to play him and start him. And he's not going to be there for the Summer.

JVG: Go fuck yourself.

Weeks later...as he's benching Vasillis...

JVG: As he thinks to himself: this little primadonna fucker demanding PT is going to get me fired. Says out loud: Rookie PG's can get coaches fired in contract years.


Vasillis: I hate you and hte Rockets. You lied to me and I gave up 9 million dollars.



It was probably something along those lines..that's what happens when the coaches don't have autonomy...

[AFBlue]

So wait, you went from Vaginas to "this guy is better than TP" in less than 24 hours. That's got to be a record.

Nevermind. I think I see your facetiousness shining through.

No, he's serious....

While I don't think this kid is the second coming of Manu, I do think that he would be an upgrade over Beno and has the ability to play both guard spots.

If the Spurs land this kid and he ends up contributing in the next couple seasons, the trade might not look so ugly...

I'm all for trying to bring this kid over and dumping Beno on some team for trade exception $$$.

[Pero]

And last I checked...the Greeks just kicked every team in the World's butt in WC's...was this kid part of the reason? Was he the reason?


I think timvp also thinks that :lol
But last I checked, Spain is the world champion, not Greece. :lol

[AFBlue]

So let's see...

Gets drafted with the 50x pick:

Rockets FO: Hi Vasillis we sure are excited to have you on our team.

Vasillis: Well thank you. I love to play in the NBA, it's my dream, but Pathanikos has just offered me nearly 3 times the amount I can make in the NBA to stay here and I have my family to think about.

Rockets FO: mutters to self*coughfuckmecough* 15 million Vasillis? That's nothing, in just 3 years you can be a star signing a 100 million dollar contract...and play in the NBA, with Yao and TMac.

Vasillis: Well that's very tempting, but I am not sure how I fit on your team and what happens if I wind up on the bench like so many European PG's do?

Rockets FO: That won't happen. You'll start, we promise.

Vasillis: I am there but I have to represent my country first.

RocketS FO: Not a problem.

Vasillis: It's done then, see you in September.

Rockets FO: Ok Vassy baby..see you then.

Calls Van Gundy

Rockets FO: Jeff, great news, we got your starting part guard, he's like a 6'3 version of Manu.

JVG: Great

Rockets FO: You have to play him and start him. And he's not going to be there for the Summer.

JVG: Go fuck yourself.

Weeks later...as he's benching Vasillis...

JVG: Rookie PG's can get coaches fired in contract years.

Vasillis: I hate you and hte Rockets.



It was probably something along those lines..that's what happens when the coaches don't have autonomy...

I understand that the system in SA is different, but I'm not so sure Pop could guarantee V-Span enough time to satisfy him either.

As of right now, the guy who he would likely replace (Beno), gets spot minutes in blowout games. IF he came over and proved himself worthy of additional minutes, I'm sure the Spurs would explore trading away a guy like Barry in order to get him minutes...but that's no guarantee, and it might not be enough to get him to come overseas.

Bottom Line: Unless the Spurs pull the same lines as the Rockets, I'm pretty sure V-Span isn't in a Spurs uni next year, if ever. :(

[TDMVPDPOY]

this clown reminds me of that lithu guy who was drafted by the pacers short dude who only knows how to shoot 3s, was once best in europe and got exposed in the nba.

had this greek dude played out or came to the nba earlier, he be just another peja dude

[whottt]

So wait, you went from Vaginas to "this guy is better than TP" in less than 24 hours. That's got to be a record.

Nevermind. I think I see your facetiousness shining through.



I'm not being facetious...

You know what I knew about him prior to this trade?

That he was some guy that made timvp and aggie look like dumbasses in the d-league.

I have never seen the kid play...I had no clue about his problems with the Rockets.


I looked into it more...and I change my stance..this kid is not in the wrong IMO...


I was wrong...plus the mother fucker shot 71% in the Euroleague finals.

Would you rather me be obstinate and try and defend a wrong opinion?

I am not Chump...when new info becomes available...I will change my opinon based on it...being right is not a novelty to me, so I do not try to force it as if it is.

Promising him PT to get him to give up 9 million dollars and then renegging on the deal and having the coach scapegoat him for his own failures is what was wrong.

Don't promise the kid PT to get him to give up 9 million dollars if you arne't going to keep that promise.

[AFBlue]

this clown reminds me of that lithu guy who was drafted by the pacers short dude who only knows how to shoot 3s, was once best in europe and got exposed in the nba.

had this greek dude played out or came to the nba earlier, he be just another peja dude

Except V-Span is a slashing guard and not a super-shooter like Jasikevicius...

Spanoulis MAY never be a stud NBA player, but if the Spurs don't at least make an attempt to bring him over, this trade looks worse than it could be if they got something other than $$$ out of the deal.

[whottt]

I understand that the system in SA is different, but I'm not so sure Pop could guarantee V-Span enough time to satisfy him either.

. :(



Pop would never gurantee him PT...and neither will RC, and if RC does...Pop will fire him. See how it's different?

Pop runs this show.

This kid thinks he's the total shit...like a good PG should...I imagine the dialogue that lead to this was something along those lines of a lack of communication as I parodied...that shit does not happen with the Spurs because Pop is the Spurs. Chief big Jefe. Numer uno. The Big Kahuna. He and RC are on the same page...everyone is on Pop's page...and if they aren't...they are gone.

That's what makes the Spurs unusual, and IMO, so efficient and unfucked up...Pop was the GM and then became the coach., and then fired himself as the GM. Pop is in charge of this mofo..he answers to Holt and no one else.


Pop is not that great of coach...but he just might be the best organizational architect/GM in NBA history. Hell...in pro Sports history.

[AFBlue]

I'm not being facetious...

You know what I knew about him prior to this trade?

That he was some guy that made timvp and aggie look like dumbasses in the d-league.

I have never seen the kid play...I had no clue about his problems with the Rockets.


I looked into it more...and I change my stance..this kid is not in the wrong IMO...


I was wrong...plus the mother fucker shot 71% in the Euroleague finals.

Would you rather me be obstinate and try and defend a wrong opinion?

I am not Chump...when new info becomes available...I will change my opinon based on it...being right is not a novelty to me, so I do not try to force it as if it is.

Promising him PT to get him to give up 9 million dollars and then renegging on the deal and having the coach scapegoat him for his own failures is what was wrong.

Don't promise the kid PT to get him to give up 9 million dollars if you arne't going to keep that promise.

I'm glad you're sticking up for the "victim" in this case, but aren't you going a bit overboard with his pro prospects?

Scola has had better, more consistent production over the long-haul of his Euroleague career, and yet you think he will not be a good NBA player.

But, you're willing to throw out Ginobili comparisons for a kid you've admittedly never seen?

Again, I think the Spurs should make an attempt to bring this kid back over and give him a shot at legit PT, but I'm just not sure it's going to happen....I'm not sure the Spurs will ever get to find out if he's the next Ginobili.



BTW, does anyone know how much longer the Spurs own his rights for? Could he conceivably play one year overseas, then come back to the NBA next summer when the Spurs have less of a roster crunch?

[BeerIsGood!]

The kid would definitely be a better backup PG than Beno and would probably relegate Vaughn to 3 PG IF he can handle the point at the NBA level and play D.

But let's not get carried away comparing him to Parker. This kid's not in the same league as Parker from what I've seen - much slower, doesn't handle as well, and probably doesn't shoot as well as what Parker has shown recently. I don't even think there is any question about mental toughness - Pop shit all over Parker for his first few seasons and Parker took it and got exponentially better. Van Gundy shits on this kid for one year and he's crying to go home to mama. Parker's a tough guy mentally and physically, and I don't think this Greek kid has it mentally. If your dream is to play in the NBA, you don't tuck your tail between your legs and run to mama after one season of getting shit on. You ride it out and bust your ass and maybe a better situation arises - which has happened now. He showed he may not have the balls to be a contributor to this Spurs team, and I'm sure Pop has picked up on that.

[whottt]

I'm sure the Spurs would explore trading away a guy like Barry in order to get him minutes...but that's no guarantee, and it might not be enough to get him to come overseas.

This kid thinks he's good...I bet he never asked for a gurantee of PT...I bet he just had concerns about fitting in on the Rockets and someone in their FO guranteed him the PT, to get him out of Greece...he was probably more than willing to stay in Greece rather play in that ugly thing the Rockets called an offense....without Van Gundy being given a say..the Rockets probably shit a brick when they found out their second round draft pick had a 15 million dollar contract in europe.


Just tell the kid...try it one more year...if it doesn't work out you're free. Hell just try it for a training camp.

The kids wants to play in the NBA...he wouldn't have given up 9 million dollars if he didn't.

[AFBlue]

Pop would never gurantee him PT...and neither will RC, and if RC does...Pop will fire him. See how it's different?

Pop runs this show.

This kid thinks he's the total shit...like a good PG should...I imagine the dialogue that lead to this was something along those lines of a lack of communication as I parodied...that shit does not happen with the Spurs because Pop is the Spurs. Chief big Jefe. Numer uno. The Big Kahuna. He and RC are on the same page...everyone is on Pop's page...and if they aren't...they are gone.

That's what makes the Spurs unusual, and IMO, so efficient and unfucked up...Pop was the GM and then became the coach., and then fired himself as the GM. Pop is in charge of this mofo..he answers to Holt and no one else.


Pop is not that great of coach...but he just might be the best organizational architect/GM in NBA history. Hell...in pro Sports history.

I think you could look at this one of two ways....

1) Spanoulis is so confident that it's eating away at him that he didn't get to prove himself on the NBA stage and that he'll look anxiously to get back and do exactly that.

2) Spanoulis is so egocentric that he'd rather be the big fish in the small pond than table his ego for the good of the team. Especially when he can stay in his homeland and be beloved by all.

Personally, I hope V-Span is more #1 than #2....

Either way, I think the Spurs approaching him is the least they can do. What's the worst he's going to tell them...no?

[AFBlue]

This kid thinks he's good...I bet he never asked for a gurantee of PT...I bet he just had concerns about fitting in on the Rockets and someone in their FO guranteed him the PT, to get him out of Greece...he was probably more than willing to stay in Greece rather play in that ugly thing the Rockets called an offense....without Van Gundy being given a say..the Rockets probably shit a brick when they found out their second round draft pick had a 15 million dollar contract in europe.


Just tell the kid...try it one more year...if it doesn't work out you're free. Hell just try it for a training camp.

The kids wants to play in the NBA...he wouldn't have given up 9 million dollars if he didn't.


Just curious what you make of his initial reaction to the trade, saying it has changed nothing and that he still wants to stay overseas, back in Greece....

[BeerIsGood!]

This kid thinks he's good...

So did Uncle Rico, but that didn't get him jack shit.

[BeerIsGood!]

Just curious what you make of his initial reaction to the trade, saying it has changed nothing and that he still wants to stay overseas, back in Greece....


If your dream is to play in the NBA, you don't tuck your tail between your legs and run to mama after one season of getting shit on. You ride it out and bust your ass and maybe a better situation arises - which has happened now. He showed he may not have the balls to be a contributor to this Spurs team, and I'm sure Pop has picked up on that.

[spurster]

He already thinks he's an all-star, and he would be 3rd PG on the Spurs, so the chances of him playing on the Spurs are zero.

[whottt]

I'm glad you're sticking up for the "victim" in this case, but aren't you going a bit overboard with his pro prospects?

Scola has had better, more consistent production over the long-haul of his Euroleague career, and yet you think he will not be a good NBA player.

But, you're willing to throw out Ginobili comparisons for a kid you've admittedly never seen?

I read about the Ginobili comparisons...I didn't come up with them. And the stats sound like Manu.

You know what...you're right. I never get burned on players I have seen play and I always do when I try to jock ones I haven't...I've seen Scola play...he's not all that. This kid may not be either...

But those stats are eyepopping...and the Rockets sure as hell do want him, and they lied to him. And he's got a huge ass contract...


But I stand by what I have said about Scola...he's not going to be near as good in the NBA as he was in Europe. It's just not there for him physically...you need either size or speed to play that position in the NBA, and he has neither. Speed kills...in all sports, it kills. Why did Parker and Manu make the jump?

Because they are fucking fast...why makes Dirk, Dirk? Because he is fucking quick and agile.

Is Scola? No he isn't. He's not fast...at all.

And the Spurs know it...if he was that great? They wouldn't have traded him to the Rockets...I've seen him play, and I'm not afraid of him on the Rockets.


Would you be afraid of a non defending and rebounding version of Oberto being traded to the Rockets? Because that's what Scola is. He''s a bad defensive player...a bad one. By European standards he's a bad defender...you think about that for a second.

How good is Oberto's offense when defense focus on him? It sucks. But he can still do stuff...well Scola is going to get a lot more attention that Oberto does...and he's going to get owned.

And I did see Oberto play first time in 02...and I wanted him to replace Drob after seeing him play over anyone we were likely to get....




Again, I think the Spurs should make an attempt to bring this kid back over and give him a shot at legit PT, but I'm just not sure it's going to happen....I'm not sure the Spurs will ever get to find out if he's the next Ginobili.



BTW, does anyone know how much longer the Spurs own his rights for? Could he conceivably play one year overseas, then come back to the NBA next summer when the Spurs have less of a roster crunch?

Ex Rockets FO...Rocket player wants out...how hard would it be to swing that? You know what I mean right? And if you were swinging it...wouldn't you try to make it as unobvious as possible? And the only reason Beno and Barry are still here is because we didn't have another PG last year.

[whottt]

Just curious what you make of his initial reaction to the trade, saying it has changed nothing and that he still wants to stay overseas, back in Greece....


When did he say that? I haven't heard that he has said anything yet...

The only comments I have seen were made prior to the trade right?


Besides...he can change his mind.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

like Robertas Javtokas , he is also really good but hidden.


Javtokas sucks. That's why he'll never be in the NBA.

[justanotherspursfan]

He already thinks he's an all-star, and he would be 3rd PG on the Spurs, so the chances of him playing on the Spurs are zero.
It's not like JV is impossibly good. If he can play D as well as slash to the basket, VSpan could take Vaughn's minutes.

[IronheadSpur]

Did I just read this right? whottt thinks that:

-The Rockets fired Van Gundy to tempt Spanoulis to return.
-The Spurs hired Lindsey just to try to improve their chances of signing Spanoulis.
-The Spurs bought the Toros just for Spanoulis.

I am certainly not an insider on any of these teams, but I am willing to bet that:

-The Rockets were looking for a coach that can best integrate Tracy McGrady, Yao Ming and others into the best possible team, so that they can try to win a championship. I don't think the Rockets fired their coach and hired a new one to increase their chances of keeping their backup PG.
-The Spurs hired Lindsey because they thought he would do a good job over the next few years in the FO and help the Spurs remain a championship-caliber organization. Not to get one player.
-The Spurs bought the Toros because they thought it would be in their long-term best interests by helping them develop all of their younger players. I don't think they bought an entire basketball team just for Spanoulis.

In other words, I don't think the major organizational decisions of these two franchises revolve around Vasilis Spanoulis.

It doesn't sound to me like he has the type of attitude that fits the Spurs and with which the organization has been successful. If he changes his attitude and is willing to put in his time, I think he could be a good prospect as a backup PG. Not another Manu or TP. If he doesn't have the right attitude, void his contract and spend the money elsewhere.

[whottt]

I watched you tube...he does have NBA speed....he's got Nash speed...and he'd instantly be moved ahead of Vaughn in the rotation...just like Beno would be...if he cared. Plus he's got an attitude..he's not a pussy. At least not based on those clips I saw. I don't if his D is as good as the one guy said.

If his D was bad Van Gundy would certainly have mentioned it...he said it was the TO's that bothered him...


Pop learned how to deal with that thanks to Manu.


The job would be his to lose...

The bigger question is how would he and Parker feel about playing with each other...Parker probably isn't worried about such things anymore...but PG's generally don't like other PG's.

[YODA]

a few thoughts on this:
1. Manu's rookie year was up and down. Pop about lost most his hait the first year he was here. ill give pop credit for eventually letting Manu play his style of play.
2. Parker was basically hand fed his rookie season. Remember pop giving PARKER the plays everytime he came up the court?

With this is mind, I think he expected be like parker, manu, and Dirk, but how they play now. I dont think he was pateint enough to learn the NBA a timely fashion in Hoyuston, then pouted when things didnt go his way. He looks like he has the ability, but does he have the patience?

With San Antonio, Its obvious if he came over,he would be the 3rd string PG, but its also obvious that Vaughn is only a short term solution to the backup PG position. Wouldnt it be nice to give him this year to learn the system, then get some playing time when Vaughn is not up to par? He then could thrive next year as the official backup pg. All of this is contengent of course of Beno being gone.

your thoughts??

Yoda
Do or do not,,,there is no try

[Solid D]

Did I just read this right? whottt thinks that:

-The Rockets fired Van Gundy to tempt Spanoulis to return.
-The Spurs hired Lindsey just to try to improve their chances of signing Spanoulis.
-The Spurs bought the Toros just for Spanoulis.

I am certainly not an insider on any of these teams, but I am willing to bet that:

-The Rockets were looking for a coach that can best integrate Tracy McGrady, Yao Ming and others into the best possible team, so that they can try to win a championship. I don't think the Rockets fired their coach and hired a new one to increase their chances of keeping their backup PG.
-The Spurs hired Lindsey because they thought he would do a good job over the next few years in the FO and help the Spurs remain a championship-caliber organization. Not to get one player.
-The Spurs bought the Toros because they thought it would be in their long-term best interests by helping them develop all of their younger players. I don't think they bought an entire basketball team just for Spanoulis.

In other words, I don't think the major organizational decisions of these two franchises revolve around Vasilis Spanoulis.

It doesn't sound to me like he has the type of attitude that fits the Spurs and with which the organization has been successful. If he changes his attitude and is willing to put in his time, I think he could be a good prospect as a backup PG. Not another Manu or TP. If he doesn't have the right attitude, void his contract and spend the money elsewhere.

The voice of reason and sound thinking.

[whottt]

Did I just read this right? whottt thinks that:

-The Rockets fired Van Gundy to tempt Spanoulis to return.

Oh I am pretty sure if they told Spanolis he was going to get minutes and JVG refused to give him to them, and the kid no longer wanted to play for them because of it...Van Gundy would get fired over that...it's not like his stock was high.

And if they aren't high on him...then how come he outlasted Van Gundy?



-The Spurs hired Lindsey just to try to improve their chances of signing Spanoulis.

Um...you do realize the Spurs once hired someone just so Mengke Bateer would have some one to talk too...

They hired a coach to make Tony shoot better...


-The Spurs bought the Toros just for Spanoulis.

Ok I was stretching it there...

They bought the Toros for the draft picks already in their system...

But they could gurantee him minutes and keep that promise...via D-league. I doubt they would though...


I am certainly not an insider on any of these teams, but I am willing to bet that:

-The Rockets were looking for a coach that can best integrate Tracy McGrady, Yao Ming and others into the best possible team, so that they can try to win a championship.

Playing in a shitty offense is player repellent...you notice the Spurs started getting more FA as their offense opened up...it's not a coincidence.





I don't think the Rockets fired their coach and hired a new one to increase their chances of keeping their backup PG.

What makes you think they wanted him to be their back up PG?

And you don't think players get coaches fired? Even rookies?



-The Spurs hired Lindsey because they thought he would do a good job over the next few years in the FO and help the Spurs remain a championship-caliber organization. Not to get one player.

You don't understand the NBA...the Spurs had a vacancy...this guy potentially had insight into aquiring a Manu type talent...

I gurantee you the Spurs would hire a motherfucker if it could get them another Manu.




In other words, I don't think the major organizational decisions of these two franchises revolve around Vasilis Spanoulis.

Who says it's major for the Spurs...

I think what went down with this kid definitely had something to do with Van Gundy being fired...definitely.




It doesn't sound to me like he has the type of attitude that fits the Spurs and with which the organization has been successful. If he changes his attitude and is willing to put in his time, I think he could be a good prospect as a backup PG. Not another Manu or TP. If he doesn't have the right attitude, void his contract and spend the money elsewhere.


And it doesn't sound to me like you spend a lot of time following the Spurs...they've tried to sign dog fighters, wife batterers, coach chokers, Karl Malone...

The Angels left with Drob...If Satan was interested in playing for the Spurs...Pop would invite him to camp to find out if he had game.

[AFBlue]

Spanoulis said in a telephone interview with Houston television station KRIV from Greece that the trade didn't change his mind.

"Nothing changes my mind. I still want to stay in Greece," he said.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2934887

I think I've seen another comment elsewhere, but it does appear that his initial reaction was not positive if you're looking for him to come over.

Having said that, there are plenty of times when players pull 180's from one week to the next.


I also got some clarification on his contract situation. If he wants to play in Greece next year, he'll have to be bought out of his contract (presumably with the cash the Spurs received in the deal), but that would mean the Spurs no longer owned his rights and he would be free to sign with anyon....Euroleague, NBA, or otherwise.

It'll be interesting to see how this situation develops....

[whottt]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2934887

I think I've seen another comment elsewhere, but it does appear that his initial reaction was not positive if you're looking for him to come over.

Having said that, there are plenty of times when players pull 180's from one week to the next.

Ehh...I am running out of energy to argue about it. He'll probably be released from his contract today...



I also got some clarification on his contract situation. If he wants to play in Greece next year, he'll have to be bought out of his contract (presumably with the cash the Spurs received in the deal), but that would mean the Spurs no longer owned his rights and he would be free to sign with anyon....Euroleague, NBA, or otherwise.

It'll be interesting to see how this situation develops....


I don't think they have to buy him out do they? He's the one refusing to play...they can just release him right? And he's off their budget. Anyway...the Rockets probably gave them the money to do that with if that's what they have to do.

The Spurs probably will make some kind of token effort...just to see.

I have a really hard time believing they aren't interested in that kid if he wants to play here....really interested. He's got talent....and the Spurs want a back up PG. And I don't think he's the bad guy in this deal either...the Rockets lied to him to get him over here...and he gave up 9 mil. I'd be pissed too.

It's not like he said it'd have been better off if he hadn't been drafted after they drafted him or anything...


You never know though...it may turn out that the Rockets were the desperate ones...I think that kid is more of an NBA caliber talent than Scola....or Butler. I think that's pretty obvious.

[IronheadSpur]

This just in...

Insurgent Attacks in Iraq Linked to Spanoulis

[nkdlunch]

LMAO, this guy is a scrub that will probably will be no better than Beno.

I cannot fucking beleive we let Scola go for this piece of shit :pctoss :pctoss :pctoss :pctoss :pctoss :pctoss

[whottt]

The voice of reason and sound thinking.


So how was Horry's retirement party? Did he smile yet?

[drmvp]

I don't think they have to buy him out do they? He's the one refusing to play...they can just release him right? And he's off their budget.

IIRC...The Rockets paid their usual portion of $500K when they helped buy out V-Span's overseas contract. If V-Span doesn't live up to his contract, his contract calls for him to pay back $350K of the Rockets' portion of the buyout. I believe this clause in his contract is transferable to any team to which he's traded.

Hence, he would owe the Spurs $350K if he stays in Greece.


BTW, good job in making the case for V-Span.

[bigfan]

The bottom line is this; is he better than Beno and will he play for the Spurs? If he's better than Beno bring him over and get rid of Beno. Since Beno lost his minutes to Vaughan, he needs to be sent someplace where he can get another shot, he will never get out of the doghouse here and he still has talent.

[thekingrobert]

this guy destroyed some good nba defenders on smaller spaced court

[pad300]

About Spanoulis's contract. As I understand it, Spanoulis can't sign a contract with a Euro team, until his current NBA contract is bought out/expires. What happens if the Spurs play hardball? Currently, Spanoulis is in Europe saying he ain't coming back. If the Spurs just ignore what he is saying, when the season starts and he doesn't show up, can they just take it to the NBA (and/or a real court) and dump the guy for non-performance (ie. they wouldn't have to pay his salary or buy him out, keep the money from the rockets, and open up a slot)? What are the implications of this wrt to the salary cap (do the Spurs get some sort of exception)?

[Mr. Body]

whottt wants to go sign Macijauskas to a long deal. Claims these guys were just 'misunderstood', poor, beleaguered guys whose sensitive feelings should be catered to at every turn.

Nah. Spanoulis is a prima donna who couldn't cut it in a better league and is trying to save face at every turn. He went whining home.

The fact some are managing to overlook is that this deal makes sense only if Spanoulis does not come over. On the roster, he'd be deadweight, occupy a roster spot they burned a very good PF to buy, and they would suddenly owe him all of $1.9M.

No, the Rockets included money in the deal explicitly to buy him out. He's not coming, and thank God.

[ploto]

The fact some are managing to overlook is that this deal makes sense only if Spanoulis does not come over. On the roster, he'd be deadweight, occupy a roster spot they burned a very good PF to buy, and they would suddenly owe him all of $1.9M.
Thank you- back to reason. The Spurs wanted to shed Butler's salary. First option is to find a team under the cap who can absorb the salary. Second- to find a guy like Spanoulis whose salary matches under the CBA but who is never expected to play and who will either mutually agree to get out of the contract or who will agree to be bought out for significantly less. The Spurs did not give up Butler and Scola to get a third string PG for $2M per season. They did it to save $$$.

[drmvp]

No, the Rockets included money in the deal explicitly to buy him out.

Huh? Where did you hear that?

Why would the Spurs need to buy out V-Span's contract? It's he who has vowed to never play in NBA again. So being in violation of his contract, the Spurs wouldn't owe him anything, and he'd, in fact, owe the Spurs $350K. Check out the soup on Aisle 62.

Furthermore, in order to release him totally from his NBA contract and allow him to play in Greece, the Spurs might demand even more than $350K from V-Span.

I don't always trust the Spurs' talent-evaluation skills, but when it comes to making money...

[Mr. Body]

Huh? Where did you hear that?

It's in the contract. Cash considerations intended to buy out Spanoulis's contract of the amount he requests.


Why would the Spurs need to buy out V-Span's contract? It's he who has vowed to never play in NBA again. So being in violation of his contract, the Spurs wouldn't owe him anything, and he'd, in fact, owe the Spurs $350K. Check out the soup on Aisle 62.

In the NBA they have guaranteed contracts. The Spurs are legally obligated to pay him his full salary this year. True, if he does want to play in Europe, he will need to be bought out, but this is a give-and-take relationship. He has them over the barrel as much as they do him, since they don't want to pay him the entire $1.9M. He, of course, wants to play for another team, so they will strike some kind of equilibrium value for his current contract higher than $0 and lower than $1.9M that satisfies both parties. There is a chance he walks away from the contract completely, which he said in a time of anger, but he could easily request it all for a negotiation point.

An important question is whether his contract, if 'voided', would remain for salary cap purposes. I believe it still remains, meaning technically the Spurs are not saving a whole lot in luxury tax - only the difference between Butler and Spanoulis's contracts.

[drmvp]

In the NBA they have guaranteed contracts. The Spurs are legally obligated to pay him his full salary this year.

I hear what you're saying, and you do a thorough job of presenting your case.

But I don't for one minute believe that the Spurs would owe V-Span a dime if he violates his contract, guaranteed or not. And, as I stated, he would, in fact, owe the Spurs $350K under those conditions.

How his contract violation would affect roster spots, cap space, etc., I don't know. So there may be some give and take necessary. But the financial ball is certainly in the Spurs' court, in my opinion.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Actually, the conditions of the trade were cash considerations to the Spurs. It does not state the money included in the deal is explicitly for buying out Spanoulis, but it's obvious the Spurs would use some of the money they received from Houston to do so if necessary.

[Mr. Body]

Spanoulis hasn't really violated his contract, he's just not coming back to the NBA. There's no such thing as voiding it for non-play or whatever; a guarantee is a guarantee. When Macijauskas came over and proved to not be worthy for the NBA, New Orleans bought him out to send him back to Europe.

So the question is whether Spanoulis will hold the contract over the Spurs' head, knowing they don't want to give him any of the money. The see-saw of negotiation is certainly tipped in the Spurs' direction, since they can prevent him from playing at all, but he can play hardball if he wishes. (For my money, he won't, but who knows.) I still wonder whether his contract can be cut from the salary roll, but don't think so, which means the luxury tax dump wasn't that great.

[Mr. Body]

Actually, the conditions of the trade were cash considerations to the Spurs. It does not state the money included in the deal is explicitly for buying out Spanoulis, but it's obvious the Spurs would use some of the money they received from Houston to do so if necessary.

One of the MySA articles did say the money was intended for that purpose, but I'm too lazy to find it.

[spurster]

Spanoulis hasn't really violated his contract, he's just not coming back to the NBA. There's no such thing as voiding it for non-play or whatever; a guarantee is a guarantee. When Macijauskas came over and proved to not be worthy for the NBA, New Orleans bought him out to send him back to Europe.

So the question is whether Spanoulis will hold the contract over the Spurs' head, knowing they don't want to give him any of the money. The see-saw of negotiation is certainly tipped in the Spurs' direction, since they can prevent him from playing at all, but he can play hardball if he wishes. (For my money, he won't, but who knows.) I still wonder whether his contract can be cut from the salary roll, but don't think so, which means the luxury tax dump wasn't that great.

Are you serious? If Spanoulis violates his contract by not showing up, I'm pretty sure the Spurs could just drop him without paying him anything.

[Mr. Body]

Are you serious? If Spanoulis violates his contract by not showing up, I'm pretty sure the Spurs could just drop him without paying him anything.

He is owed the money.

[drmvp]

Spanoulis hasn't really violated his contract, he's just not coming back to the NBA. There's no such thing as voiding it for non-play or whatever; a guarantee is a guarantee.

Is there a head-scratching symbol around? Gee, I hope you own a company and give me a guaranteed contract. I'll take a nice long trip to Greece at your expense.

I know the Rockets were certainly not going to pay his salary if he had arbitrarily stayed in Greece, and they were going to demand back $350K of their initial $500K overseas buyout.



When Macijauskas came over and proved to not be worthy for the NBA, New Orleans bought him out to send him back to Europe.

Totally different situation. The Hornets were the motivated party and Macijauskas didn't quit playing for the team, afaik.

[Bruno]

If Spanoulis violates his contract by not showing up, I'm pretty sure the Spurs could just drop him without paying him anything.

I'm not sure if Spurs can just drop him but the cba has changed about players who fails to report after a trade after the Mourning story with Raptors.
The league will penalized Spanoulis with a fine, suspension or by voiding his contract.
Spanoulis can't too sign a contract with an european team if eh has a nba contract.

[Mr. Body]

Is there a head-scratching symbol around? Gee, I hope you own a company and give me a guaranteed contract. I'll take a nice long trip to Greece at your expense.


That's the way it is in the NBA. That's the meaning of a guaranteed contract. There are measures the league can take, but they are not hugely significant. Suspensions, suspensions of pay, etc., but any team should be prepared for a legal fight with the Players' Union.

Of course I wouldn't give you a guaranteed contract owning my own company. Why are you suggesting I made the rules? The NBA is different, where labor is much more valuable and has a lot more clout, because they drive the product. Nobody should protect NBA owners from signing awful contracts. They have to pay up themselves.

[smrattler]

V-Span is not coming to SA.

His first taste of the NBA was under JVG. No promised playing time, nothing given you have to earn everything and you have to play IN the system. This isn't Phoenix.

Pop comes with an even bigger rep than JVG. If he reacted like that to JVG, he has to think Pop would be worse for him. Pop yells at TD, Manu, TP... he doesn't care. No way he thinks he gets on the floor.

And on the other end, for Pop, this can't be a good fit for him either. I mean, look back to two recent young PGs and how they reacted to his TOUGH love. A 19 yr old frenchy kept his mouth shut, took the verbal punishment and took something from it to improve his game and consistency little by little. Made himself stronger. Wanted to prove him wrong. The result? 3 time champ, 2 time all-star and NBA Finals MVP.

A certain Slov also kept his mouth shut and took the verbal abuse but made nothing of it, and crawled into a shell.

V-Span took some harsh benching and was publicly complaining about his lack of PT a couple of months into his rookie year? He's not a soldier Pop needs at that position. Like Beno, doesn't take the verbal assault to make himself stronger and better. But worse than Beno, he doesn't keep his mouth shut in the process. Weak.

No way. Not a good fit here at all.

[drmvp]

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/4943775.html


Spanoulis' agent, Miodrag Raznatovic ... said Spanoulis, who earned $1.8 million as a rookie last season, would repay the $350,000 buyout the Rockets paid Panathinaikos last season out of his next contract.

All this little guy wants for Christmas is to be released from his contract so that he can sign with a Greek team, and he'll be tickled pink to pay back the $350K buyout if that's what it takes.

[drmvp]

That's the way it is in the NBA. That's the meaning of a guaranteed contract. There are measures the league can take, but they are not hugely significant.

Hey everybody,

Off to Rio, baby! Permanently. With a 105 big ones on the way!

To quote my buddy, Frankie Elson, ''Time to party like a rock star!"

Haha, I never liked basketball anyway (as you could probably tell).

Sincerely,
Rashard Quovon Lewis


O.K., granted, I was working willy-nilly with the ordinary, common sense definition of "guaranteed," while you were working with what you believe to be its precise definition in the context of the NBA CBA. You were right to do so.

Can you, or anybody, show me the NBA CBA definition of a "guaranteed" salary and what it means in terms of obligations on the part of the player? I'd genuinely like to see that.

Can you explain why Rashard Lewis (or any other player) doesn't just write that letter above if there are no "hugely significant measures the league can take?"

I simply cannot believe that the NBA CBA was skewed that heavily in favor of the player's union.

[ploto]

Totally different situation. The Hornets were the motivated party and Macijauskas didn't quit playing for the team, afaik.
Where did you hear that? The situation is almost identical. Macijauskas wanted to go home and said that he would not play for the Hornets again. He was owed $2.5M per season and worked out a buy out. I can not remember if the second year he had left was a team option- or a player option. Either way, I think he got about $1M from the Hornets and then went and signed a HUGE contract in Europe. He had many not so nice things to say about the NBA- just like Spanoulis.

Spurs tried to trade for him. Remember the Barry trade to the Hornets. Maybe they planned on buying him out and saving money the same way back then, too.

[timvp]

whottt went off the deep end in this thread. And others aren't really understanding V-Span's position right now.

I guess I'll start from the beginning since whottt brought up timvp earlier in this thread. . .

V-Span is a good player. I've watched him play in Europe and he was a top three guard over there. He was basically a shorter version of Manu. Very creative with natural basketball skills. Then in the World Championships, he was the best player on the Greek team that beat the US. When he ran pick-and-rolls, the US simply couldn't stop him.

Fast forward to rookie orientation. Rookie orientation is an NBA sanctioned event in New York that all NBA rookies must attend. And since there are a bunch of basketball players in one place, pickup games are bound to break out.

I talked to a couple guys who were there and asked who the most impressive rookie was during those pickup games. The unanimous best player there according to the other rookies was V-Span. Multiple people told me he just owned everyone else there.

(So yeah, that is how timvp got "owned" according to whottt in a fantasy league by drafting V-Span in the 45th round. [For the record, timvp finished 2nd out of 20 teams while big bad super scout whottt finished 20th out of 20])

Would I like V-Span on the Spurs? Yeah, I would. He's creative and he's one of the best freelance guards in the world. The problem is he's extremely, extremely untamed ... to the point that Pop might strangle him by the second preseason game.

And that brings me to the other erroneous take in this thread. The Spurs do not have to buy out V-Span's contract. He wants out of his contract Derek Fisher style. I've read a bunch of articles regarding the subject and he just wants to tear up his NBA contract. The reason being is that he can't sign with the Greek team that is offering MORE money until his NBA contract is voided. He's not asking for any sort of buyout. He just wants the contract gone.

While he's not better than Tony Parker or any of other the other outlandish crap super scout whottt threw at the wall, V-Span is a player with massive untapped potential. He was in the absolute wrong system under Van Gundy.

That said, I'd be shocked if he ever steps foot in the United States again. There is a 99.999% chance the Spurs void his contract and let him sign in Greece. If that 0.001% chance comes to fruition and V-Span wants to play for the Spurs, I'd gladly take him.

I think if Pop can get passed V-Span's wild ways, he'd be a dynamic guard option that would thrive in pick-and-rolls in the Spurs system. And there had to be something to his fellow rookies saying he was the best one out there. On that alone I think he'd be worth his contract to see what he could do.

[spurster]

http://www.nbpa.com/cba_exhibits/exhibitA.php

16.TERMINATION.
(a) The Team may terminate this Contract upon written notice to the Player if the Player shall:

...

(iv) at any time, fail, refuse, or neglect to render his services hereunder or in any other manner materially breach this Contract.

...

(g) Upon any termination of this Contract by the Player, all obligations of the Team to pay Compensation shall cease on the date of termination, except the obligation of the Team to pay the Player’s Compensation to said date.

[drmvp]

Where did you hear that? The situation is almost identical. Macijauskas wanted to go home and said that he would not play for the Hornets again. He was owed $2.5M per season and worked out a buy out. I can not remember if the second year he had left was a team option- or a player option. Either way, I think he got about $1M from the Hornets and then went and signed a HUGE contract in Europe. He had many not so nice things to say about the NBA- just like Spanoulis.

Spurs tried to trade for him. Remember the Barry trade to the Hornets. Maybe they planned on buying him out and saving money the same way back then, too.

akaik = "as far as I know"

I never really paid attention to the Hornets/Macijauskas ordeal. I was simply going on the words here from Mr. Body: "When Macijauskas came over and proved to not be worthy for the NBA, New Orleans bought him out to send him back to Europe."

1) V-Span never proved himself unworthy for the NBA in that the Rockets were trying hard to retain him.

2) Did Macijauskas actually leave the team?

That does seem different from V-Span's situation. He's not holding anybody hostage. He's given up all his leverage by staying in Greece and announcing (not simply threatening) his intentions to breach the terms of his contract.

The difference, it seems to me, is that both the Hornets and Macijauskas were desperate to end their relationship. However, only V-Span showed any desperation in his situation (at least with the Rockets).

[Mr. Body]

However, only V-Span showed any desperation in his situation (at least with the Rockets).

I don't know. It seems like Houston was only too happy to hear he was leaving and not wanting the contract. They drafted Aaron Brooks and traded for Mike James, indicating a jubillant mood.

Spanoulis could put up a cry for his owed money, but perhaps he'd have a tough time getting it without showing up. There are two best options for the Spurs right now: 1) he disappears forever, including his contract, or 2) he comes over for them.

In the first case, they get all the money they wanted out of the trade. This is by far the likeliest scenario and what the Spurs wanted. In the second case, as some here suggest, Spanoulis may be an NBA player yet. But boy did he suck last year. He was awful.

[whottt]

whottt went off the deep end in this thread. And others aren't really understanding V-Span's position right now.

I guess I'll start from the beginning since whottt brought up timvp earlier in this thread. . .

V-Span is a good player. I've watched him play in Europe and he was a top three guard over there. He was basically a shorter version of Manu. Very creative with natural basketball skills. Then in the World Championships, he was the best player on the Greek team that beat the US. When he ran pick-and-rolls, the US simply couldn't stop him.

Fast forward to rookie orientation. Rookie orientation is an NBA sanctioned event in New York that all NBA rookies must attend. And since there are a bunch of basketball players in one place, pickup games are bound to break out.

I talked to a couple guys who were there and asked who the most impressive rookie was during those pickup games. The unanimous best player there according to the other rookies was V-Span. Multiple people told me he just owned everyone else there.

(So yeah, that is how timvp got "owned" according to whottt in a fantasy league by drafting V-Span in the 45th round. [For the record, timvp finished 2nd out of 20 teams while big bad super scout whottt finished 20th out of 20])

Would I like V-Span on the Spurs? Yeah, I would. He's creative and he's one of the best freelance guards in the world. The problem is he's extremely, extremely untamed ... to the point that Pop might strangle him by the second preseason game.

And that brings me to the other erroneous take in this thread. The Spurs do not have to buy out V-Span's contract. He wants out of his contract Derek Fisher style. I've read a bunch of articles regarding the subject and he just wants to tear up his NBA contract. The reason being is that he can't sign with the Greek team that is offering MORE money until his NBA contract is voided. He's not asking for any sort of buyout. He just wants the contract gone.

While he's not better than Tony Parker or any of other the other outlandish crap super scout whottt threw at the wall, V-Span is a player with massive untapped potential. He was in the absolute wrong system under Van Gundy.

That said, I'd be shocked if he ever steps foot in the United States again. There is a 99.999% chance the Spurs void his contract and let him sign in Greece. If that 0.001% chance comes to fruition and V-Span wants to play for the Spurs, I'd gladly take him.

I think if Pop can get passed V-Span's wild ways, he'd be a dynamic guard option that would thrive in pick-and-rolls in the Spurs system. And there had to be something to his fellow rookies saying he was the best one out there. On that alone I think he'd be worth his contract to see what he could do.



Jealousy over giving up Biedrens aside...


Would the Spurs be interested in this guy?


After watching the guy play, I don't for one second think the Spurs aren't interested in signing him....

The Spurs are resourceful...they aren't just going to let talent slip through their hands. And they want a back up PG.


See everyone is spinning this like the Spurs gave Scola away...well from their POV, they traded out one unsignable guy with personal issues with them, for a more talented unsignable guy...a guy that doesn't have personal issues with them.


From what I have seen this guy smokes Butler and Scola combined.


Plus his story does read like Manu's...

[timvp]

Where did you hear that? The situation is almost identical. Macijauskas wanted to go home and said that he would not play for the Hornets again. He was owed $2.5M per season and worked out a buy out. I can not remember if the second year he had left was a team option- or a player option. Either way, I think he got about $1M from the Hornets and then went and signed a HUGE contract in Europe. He had many not so nice things to say about the NBA- just like Spanoulis.

Spurs tried to trade for him. Remember the Barry trade to the Hornets. Maybe they planned on buying him out and saving money the same way back then, too.

Macijauskas was a totally different situation. He was willing to sit at the end of the bench and collect the payment for the final year of his contract. V-Span has already moved back to Greece and already has a contract offer from a Greek team. He's just waiting to be released from his NBA contract so he can sign it.

V-Span would actually lose money by trying to force the Spurs to buy him out.

[whottt]

And you wanna be GM's with your divisional rival crap are lame....save it...

Go talk to Mitch Kupchak. Go see what passing up better deals because you don't want to trade to a divisional rival does...

[Mr. Body]

From what I have seen this guy smokes Butler and Scola combined.

:blah

[drmvp]

http://www.nbpa.com/cba_exhibits/exhibitA.php

16.TERMINATION.
(a) The Team may terminate this Contract upon written notice to the Player if the Player shall:

...

(iv) at any time, fail, refuse, or neglect to render his services hereunder or in any other manner materially breach this Contract.

...

(g) Upon any termination of this Contract by the Player, all obligations of the Team to pay Compensation shall cease on the date of termination, except the obligation of the Team to pay the Player’s Compensation to said date.

Thanks for your research. :tu

[whottt]

Bottom line is that this kid an ego...I've been reading interviews and he's got a huge EGO...the fact that the NBA Champions just traded the European MVP isn't lost on him...I don't care what he says...he's thinking about it right now. That's the way EGO works.

[Mr. Body]

Bottom line is that this kid an ego...I've been reading interviews and he's got a huge EGO...the fact that the NBA Champions just traded the European MVP isn't lost on him...I don't care what he says...he's thinking about it right now. That's the way EGO works.

But what about a GREEK Ego? Egos started in Greece, after all.

But not Eggos.

Those start in the toaster.

[whottt]

And his skill set is the perfect one to play PG on this team.

[ploto]

Did Macijauskas actually leave the team?

That does seem different from V-Span's situation.

He's given up all his leverage by staying in Greece and announcing (not simply threatening) his intentions to breach the terms of his contract.
I am not sure what you mean by this? Macijauskas went home to Europe in the summer like most of them do and said he was not coming back.

Admittedly, the Hornets were happier about that than the Rockets are about Spanoulis but he still managed to get the Hornets to agree to give him $1M. Spanoulis has said he just wants out but who knows what happens when agents and a new team get involved. Sure, he wants free to sign in Greece, but the Spurs want free of the contract obligation to him, too, which can't happen until October if they don't work something out with him.

[whottt]

Must be nice to think Javtokas deserved 3 mil per year and not have died of shame yet. I've never talk again if I did that.

[timvp]

Jealousy over giving up Biedrens aside...20th place out of 20.


Would the Spurs be interested in this guy? Read the post you quoted.


After watching the guy play, I don't for one second think the Spurs aren't interested in signing him....YouTube doesn't count.


The Spurs are resourceful...they aren't just going to let talent slip through their hands. And they want a back up PG. The chances that he changes his mind are extremely small.


See everyone is spinning this like the Spurs gave Scola away...well from their POV, they traded out one unsignable guy with personal issues with them, for a more talented unsignable guy...a guy that doesn't have personal issues with them.:rolleyes

He'll probably be released within the upcoming week.


From what I have seen this guy smokes Butler and Scola combined. Again, you didn't even know who he was two days ago. I don't know how you can claim to be a V-Span expert now.

But yes, if he were open to playing in the NBA again, I would have liked the trade on a talent level. But unless something crazy happens and he changes his mind, that's not even worth mentioning


Plus his story does read like Manu's...Except for the fact that Manu is much better and came to the US for pennies compared what V-Span came for. And Manu was never scared and didn't go running back home to mommy.

V-Span would be a nice prospect. But he's not better than Tony Parker or Manu Ginobili no matter how much you'd want him to be. Then again, that type of scouting got you where you were last year . . .

[BeerIsGood!]

Must be nice to think Javtokas deserved 3 mil per year and not have died of shame yet. I've never talk again if I did that.

"Cavs in 5!!" seems just as bad to me.

And yet you're still here.

[Mr. Body]

And his skill set is the perfect one to play PG on this team.

We can make room on the roster for a guy who shoots 31% from the floor, 17% from three point range, notched more turnovers than assists last year, and his TO/48 min. stat would be above 5.0 TOs per game - but wouldn't, because he'd foul out before then.

[timvp]

I am not sure what you mean by this? Macijauskas went home to Europe in the summer like most of them do and said he was not coming back.

Admittedly, the Hornets were happier about that than the Rockets are about Spanoulis but he still managed to get the Hornets to agree to give him $1M. Spanoulis has said he just wants out but who knows what happens when agents and a new team get involved. Sure, he wants free to sign in Greece, but the Spurs want free of the contract obligation to him, too, which can't happen until October if they don't work something out with him.What is so hard to understand?

The Hornets didn't want Macijauskas back. If the Hornets didn't buy out his contract, Macijauskas could have theoretically just reported to camp and got his money that was due to him.

If V-Span said that he'd report to Spurs camp, the Spurs would welcome him aboard.

That's the difference.

[Mr. Body]

If V-Span said that he'd report to Spurs camp, the Spurs would welcome him aboard.


You think? I'd think we'd hear grousing about, "There goes $1.9 million down the drain."

[whottt]

"Cavs in 5!!" seems just as bad to me.

And yet you're still here.


Hey...it was a dirty job but somebody had to do it...


I also said if Bowen can keep the LeBron in the realm of mortals, the Spurs will sweep.

[timvp]

The only remotely decent take whottt-span has in this thread is the take that the Spurs should go to Greece to see if they can talk V-Span into giving it one more try. If perhaps Pop and Duncan went to Greece and had a talk with him, could they talk him out of giving up?

99% chance not ... but might be worth the shot. Then again, being a quitter who runs home to mommy isn't what has won the Spurs four championships.

[BeerIsGood!]

Hey...it was a dirty job but somebody had to do it...


I also said if Bowen can keep the LeBron in the realm of mortals, the Spurs will sweep.

:)

[yavozerb]

Then again if running to mommy gets you onto a championship team like the spurs you say to yourself, "Damn, why didn't I think of that!!"

[Mr. Body]

99% chance not ... but might be worth the shot. Then again, being a quitter who runs home to mommy isn't what has won the Spurs four championships.

The day he gets moved behind Vaughn in the rotation, he'd go into a psychotic, tear-soaked rage.

[timvp]

You think? I'd think we'd hear grousing about, "There goes $1.9 million down the drain."

Nah, V-Span is good and the Spurs have be high on him in the past. Pop would need to reign in his wildness but he's a quality prospect. You put him in a pick-and-roll and he'd thrive.

Van Gundy turned him into a spot up shooter. That's exactly the wrong way to use this guy.

Either way, the Spurs come out ahead. If he comes over, he's a solid prospect. If he stays in Europe, the Spurs won't be on the hook for his contract.

[BeerIsGood!]

The only remotely decent take whottt-span has in this thread is the take that the Spurs should go to Greece to see if they can talk V-Span into giving it one more try. If perhaps Pop and Duncan went to Greece and had a talk with him, could they talk him out of giving up?

99% chance not ... but might be worth the shot. Then again, being a quitter who runs home to mommy isn't what has won the Spurs four championships.

That's definitely what I think Pop sees more than the talent, and I wouldn't expect the Spurs to do anything more than gleefully void his contract. No need to replace one mentally and emotionally soft PG with another - but this time one that's disgruntled, hates the USA, and could be a problem in the locker room. At least Beno doesn't cause problems. That's the one good by-product of his laziness.

[whottt]

20th place out of 20.

What can I say...I've think like Pop...sometimes.




Read the post you quoted.

YouTube doesn't count.

You tube is plenty for me to see how fast he is...the key ingredient to transfer to the NBA...the kid is lightning fast with the ball, especially his first step.


The chances that he changes his mind are extremely small.

:rolleyes

He'll probably be released within the upcoming week.

As opposed to Scola...which was a chance of absolute nil.




Again, you didn't even know who he was two days ago. I don't know how you can claim to be a V-Span expert now.


I've never missed on a talent I've actully seen play..

Not a single time...I don't need much more than youtube...

I've never claimed to be an expert on all players...I readily admit, I don't even watch college ball.


But yes, if he were open to playing in the NBA again, I would have liked the trade on a talent level. But unless something crazy happens and he changes his mind, that's not even worth mentioning


Thanks you...that's what I wanted to hear, so you agree with me.

Where we diverge is that you have now become so cynical about about the defending champ Spurs that you think the idea of signing this guy didn't even cross the Spurs minds...

When I can take one look at him and tell you that it's crossing Pop's mind.





Except for the fact that Manu is much better and came to the US for pennies compared what V-Span came for. And Manu was never scared and didn't go running back home to mommy.

Have you read his story?

He's not scared...Scared players don't give up 9 million...he got lied to by the Rockets...and whether you realize it or not...Pop is one of the most powerful coaches in the NBA...JVG wasn't. You've lost your perspective because you don't think miscommunication happens between coaches and GM's...because you never see it on the Spurs.



V-Span would be a nice prospect. But he's not better than Tony Parker or Manu Ginobili no matter how much you'd want him to be. Then again, that type of scouting got you where you were last year . . .

I never claimed he'd be bettter....but he's right there on talent...he's got speed. And Manu was wild once upon a time too...why do you think he didn't get here till he was 24.

[ploto]

Macijauskas was a totally different situation. He was willing to sit at the end of the bench and collect the payment for the final year of his contract. V-Span has already moved back to Greece and already has a contract offer from a Greek team. He's just waiting to be released from his NBA contract so he can sign it.
Huh? Macijauskas went home and said horrid things about the NBA- implied Byron Scott was basically a racist. He had waiting for him a huge contract back in Europe- signing for about 10 million Euros after his buy out.


Sound similar:


The promises of the NO/OC “Hornets” he would be one of the main players on court have evaporated like last year’s snow after the club parted its ways with its General Manager Allan Bristow. It was mainly Allan Brisow who convinced Arvydas Macijauskas to wear the “Hornets” jersey.


Even in the case I would be promised the mountains of gold, I see no sense whatsoever staying with the “Hornets.”

[ploto]

If V-Span said that he'd report to Spurs camp, the Spurs would welcome him aboard.

I do not think they traded Butler and Scola for a $4 M back up point guard. That is why you and I will never agree on this. I think they took this trade specifically because he would not come.

[timvp]

I've never missed on a talent I've actully seen play..

Not a single time...I don't need much more than youtube...Says the Kevin McHale of fantasy basketball.



I never claimed he'd be bettterDo you read what you post?


Holy shit...there's not a chance in fucking hell the Spurs aren't trying to get this guy...


He is Parker part 2...he might be better.

[Mr. Body]

I do not think they traded Butler and Scola for a $4 M back up point guard. That is why you and I will never agree on this. I think they took this trade specifically because he would not come.

You mean $4M because of luxury tax, right? Yeah, it probably didn't matter if it was Grandma Moses at the end of that contract, so long as it was being voided.

[AFBlue]

Either way, the Spurs come out ahead. If he comes over, he's a solid prospect. If he stays in Europe, the Spurs won't be on the hook for his contract.

Said exactly that a few pages back....

Good take :tu

[timvp]

Huh? Macijauskas went home and said horrid things about the NBA- implied Byron Scott was basically a racist. He had waiting for him a huge contract back in Europe- signing for about 10 million Euros after his buy out.


Sound similar:I assume your hatred for the Spurs is making it impossible for you to think.

Carefully re-read the post you just quoted and try to piece together the different in the two scenarios. I'm not going to explain it again for the fifth time in this thread.

[ploto]

You mean $4M because of luxury tax, right? Yeah, it probably didn't matter if it was Grandma Moses at the end of that contract, so long as it was being voided.
Yes- I think if he said he wanted to come Holt would be saying %$#@ not yippee!

[whottt]

Says the Kevin McHale of fantasy basketball.


Do you read what you post?



http://www.answers.com/topic/might

[ploto]

I assume your hatred for the Spurs is making it impossible for you to think.

Carefully re-read the post you just quoted and try to piece together the different in the two scenarios. I'm not going to explain it again for the fifth time in this thread.
I do not agree with your belief that the Spurs want him so therefore the situations are not that different. Spurs want rid of his contract just like NO did.

[whottt]

Says the Kevin McHale of fantasy basketball.


How the hell am I Kevin McHale...did all his players get injured too?

[AFBlue]

Yes- I think if he said he wanted to come Holt would be saying %$#@ not yippee!

I honestly don't think the Spurs FO felt more one way or the other. I'm pretty sure they knew that Spanoulis felt disenfranchised, but I'm pretty sure they'll pick up the phone just to guage his interest.

Beno makes $200K less than V-Span this year. If they brought V-Span over, they could just pawn Udrih off to another team for a trade exception and be at square one cap-wise.

Still...I think it's a longshot.

[timvp]

http://www.answers.com/topic/might

http://www.answers.com/topic/whottt (http://www.nba.com/media/timberwolves/mchale_0506_150.jpg)

[whottt]

There's not an uptempo PG alive that's going to want to play with Yao and Van Gundy...that was a factor. Yao still is.


Right now the biggest factors IMO...are Beno and Parker.

[drmvp]

...the Spurs want free of the contract obligation to him, too, which can't happen until October if they don't work something out with him.

I agree that the dynamics have changed somewhat now that the Spurs hold his rights. Assuming that the Spurs do want free of his contract (very likely), then we now have two motivated parties to dissolve a contractual relationship.

In the Rockets' situation, V-Span was the sole motivated party and was going to pay back the Rockets initial overseas buyout and probably a release fee. He desperately wanted his release so that he could sign a lucrative Greek contract.

It could be an interesting real-world example in game theoretical strategy to see what posturing the Spurs and V-Span take. But I do believe that V-Span is too desperate to engage in any buyout sportsmanship.

[yavozerb]

:lol
http://www.answers.com/topic/whottt (http://www.nba.com/media/timberwolves/mchale_0506_150.jpg)

[whottt]

I honestly don't think the Spurs FO felt more one way or the other. .



You must have missed it when Pop felched Karl Malone publicly.

[whottt]

Anyway...I realized something last season...

I realized, and this was not easy to concede...that the Spurs FO is smarter than me...they are smarter than timvp and MB and baselinebum...and everyone on this forum.


When it comes to resourcefulness...they are second to none.

The only flaw I see in the Spurs FO...and what has lead to them getting owned by me in the past...is that they are so greedy when it comes to talent, they throw the baby out with the bath water...hence, Kidd.

Kidd was the only time I haven't seen them about 10 steps ahead of everyone on this forum...in offseason manuevering.

Now you think about that flaw, and think about their strenghts...

[Mr. Body]

Anyway...I realized something last season...

I realized, and this was not easy to concede...that the Spurs FO is smarter than me...they are smarter than timvp and MB and baselinebum...and everyone on this forum.


When it comes to resourcefulness...they are second to none.

The only flaw I see in the Spurs FO...and what has lead to them getting owned by me in the past...is that they are so greedy when it comes to talent, they throw the baby out with the bath water...hence, Kidd.

Kidd was the only time I haven't seen them about 10 steps ahead of everyone on this forum...in offseason manuevering.

Now you think about that flaw, and think about their strenghts...

I look forward to whottt's next dissertation, "The 10 Steps of Marcus Williams."

[timvp]

Anyway...I realized something last season...

I realized, and this was not easy to concede...that the Spurs FO is smartJust out of curiosity, what move made you change your mind? Was it overpaying Denver's 12th man to watch him choke in the playoffs? Was it watching them sign a project out of New York and then give up on him 11 months later?

The Spurs have had some good summers but 2006 wasn't one of them. Salary dumping Rasho while at the same time getting quality pieces back was a fantastic move, but we all knew that at the time. Letting Nazr walk was pretty expected.

Other than that, the Spurs signed two centers who basically were a bust and a third string point guard who didn't screw up enough to cost the team a championship.

The Spurs have a good front office but 2006 wasn't the summer to be wowed.

[whottt]

Just out of curiosity, what move made you change your mind? Was it overpaying Denver's 12th man to watch him choke in the playoffs? Was it watching them sign a project out of New York and then give up on him 11 months later?

The Spurs have had some good summers but 2006 wasn't one of them. Salary dumping Rasho while at the same time getting quality pieces back was a fantastic move, but we all knew that at the time. Letting Nazr walk was pretty expected.

Other than that, the Spurs signed two centers who basically were a bust and a third string point guard who didn't screw up enough to cost the team a championship.

The Spurs have a good front office but 2006 wasn't the summer to be wowed.


The fact that they pulled the RFA card out of their pocket and played it to perfection...going after not one, but two RFA bigmen and getting them both...for pennies, on short term deals. That's Robert Horry as the clock expires perfection.

Elson is a great deal for the money he makes...I know you don't like him...but he's extremely talented.

Butler is not quite as good of a deal...people can say what they want about Isiah...but I wanted him hired as head North American scout when he gets fired from the Knicks. Still..just the fact they got a Knicks RFA for so little was impressive...that's not something you see done to the Knicks often.

And no one saw it coming...that they'd all of a sudden go to the RFA card...that they'd actually get both of them...with such little contracts.


And people can say what they want...but I didn't miss Rasho or Nazr last year...and I like Elson and Oberto better.



As for Scola...


You know...I don't think Manu and Scola like each other...Scola did not want to be here from the night he was drafted...he's got two teamates that love it here...and yet he wants no part of it...


I'd be willing to bet that they asked Manu which one would be a better fit for the Spurs and Manu told them Oberto...which one is more like Manu?

[whottt]

Oh and I don't think they actually wanted Butler and Elson...they wanted Elson, he's fast enough to guard Dirk. Butler was just the fall back, he is obviously the bigger project...they probably assumed Isiah was still high on Butler...because he was at one time...and LB was too.

And we do know Elson can stay with Dirk...


And BTW, timvp...you get props for jocking Butler like he's Wilt on one hand and then at the same time using his signing as an example of the Spurs being a crappy FO and unable to judge talent. That's covering both sides of the argument shamelessly...blatantly.

I OTOH...have never said Butler wasn't talented...he's just not a here and now player, he's a 5 years down the road player, he's also going to be a fitness issue for the rest of his career. And the Spurs have bigger needs.


And I don't ever expect you to like Elson...

[Gros Membres!]

I'll take Vaughn over Spanoulis every time - dude's a backup PG. We're not looking for a Tony replacement just a counterpunch.

[Mr. Body]

You know...I don't think Manu and Scola like each other...Scola did not want to be here from the night he was drafted...he's got two teamates that love it here...and yet he wants no part of it...


I don't think you've picked up anything in the last week or so. Not at thing.

[justanotherspursfan]

Oh and I don't think they actually wanted Butler and Elson...they wanted Elson, he's fast enough to guard Dirk. Butler was just the fall back, he is obviously the bigger project...they probably assumed Isiah was still high on Butler...because he was at one time...and LB was too.
Well, if they hadn't wanted Butler, wouldn't it have made more sense to not sign him? If they only wanted to sign him if Elson fell through, why not try and wait a week?

I just think they weren't sure what they had in Oberto, so they potentially needed 2 guys, but on a budget. Those were the best guys on the market, so they took the plunge. You can debate how it turned out, but I don't see that they could have done anything better without overpaying for someone.

[Chickendog]

the word in houston is that spanoulis was a turnover machine and he couldn't play defense, and that drove van gungy crazy.

[genghisrex]

the word in houston is that spanoulis was a turnover machine and he couldn't play defense, and that drove van gungy crazy.
I'm not sure how much JVG knew about Spanoulis before he signed with the Rockets (did he play in the Summer Leagues in previous seasons?), but it doesn't sound like he had an open mind going into last season. This was posted over on ClutchFans (http://clutchfans.net/news/1350/spanoulis_rockets_agree_to_terms/) right after the Rockets signed Spanoulis last July:


One source has told me for weeks that Jeff Van Gundy is not a big Spanoulis fan and can't figure out why Rockets brass is, so the "one" is going to be an interesting position to watch this year.

[whottt]

Well, if they hadn't wanted Butler, wouldn't it have made more sense to not sign him? If they only wanted to sign him if Elson fell through, why not try and wait a week?

Because they were both restricted Free Agents and teams have like up to a week or two weeks to match offers.

I don't think they counted on much from Butler last season...but he obviously wasn't adapting to the program...

Butler has some nice offensive skills and seems like a good kid...but that's all he has going for him...and he's got nothing to contribute to a team contending for titles. And it doesn't look like he was responding to anything Pop was asking of him...so the Spurs decided not to invest anymore time and effort into him.


I just think they weren't sure what they had in Oberto, so they potentially needed 2 guys, but on a budget. Those were the best guys on the market, so they took the plunge. You can debate how it turned out, but I don't see that they could have done anything better without overpaying for someone.

It doesn't matter...it's they went after two restricted Free Agents and got them both...that's rare. Especially without overpaying for them. But I don't for a second think they were expecting Butler to contribute as much last season as Elson...hoping yes...expecting no.

[justanotherspursfan]

Butler has some nice offensive skills and seems like a good kid...but that's all he has going for him...and he's got nothing to contribute to a team contending for titles. And it doesn't look like he was responding to anything Pop was asking of him...so the Spurs decided not to invest anymore time and effort into him.

It doesn't matter...it's they went after two restricted Free Agents and got them both...that's rare. Especially without overpaying for them. But I don't for a second think they were expecting Butler to contribute as much last season as Elson...hoping yes...expecting no.
I don't think they were expecting Butler to be a huge part of the rotation last year, but they also weren't expecting for his lazy ass to show up out of shape and not ready to play either.

When they saw he wasn't going to work out they figured out how to cut bait. They took a gamble on the guy, and he didn't work out, so they had to dump him. It's a risk that didn't pan out, so let's call it for what it was: a screwup; but I'd rather they throw him overboard now than carry him along on the bottom of the roster for another couple of years like Beno.

[spurscenter]

Butler will shine in HOuston under adelman. he made stars of Mark Bryant, jerome kersey for god sakes.

[Rainman]

I'm not sure how much JVG knew about Spanoulis before he signed with the Rockets (did he play in the Summer Leagues in previous seasons?), but it doesn't sound like he had an open mind going into last season. This was posted over on ClutchFans (http://clutchfans.net/news/1350/spanoulis_rockets_agree_to_terms/) right after the Rockets signed Spanoulis last July:


He didn't play summer league because he had national team obligations. JVG sealed his fate when he decided to play what was basically a seven man rotation leaving V-span and Novak on the bench among other players. This created a rift between him and the FO including the team owner.

V-span has deceptive speed. When you see him get to the basket you think no way this guy can do that on a consistent basis, but he does. He's big enough to finish or use his body to ward off defenders. JVG played this guy like he was Steve Kerr and never gave him a chance to create off the dribble which is V-span's strength.

I hope the guy does give it a go in the NBA because he never got a real shot in Houston.

[Marcus Bryant]

I'd like for him to join the Spurs just so The Trade doesn't suck...that bad.

[spurscenter]

i think the spurs will make a trade in mid season and are gonna roll with the same team and if things need changing they will this time by the trade deadline.

[Marcus Bryant]

i think the spurs will make a trade in mid season and are gonna roll with the same team and if things need changing they will this time by the trade deadline.

Who will they deal?

[ducks]

tp 15 other point guards could have replaced tp and spurs still would have won the titles
just ask findog

[justanotherspursfan]

Who will they deal?
Barry will never be worth more than he will in February when his deal is a few months form expiring. A team also might be willing to take a low-risk half-season flyer on Beno at that point, as well.

[Marcus Bryant]

Barry will never be worth more than he will in February when his deal is a few months form expiring. A team also might be willing to take a low-risk half-season flyer on Beno at that point, as well.

The one thing about that theory is that the Spurs will have $20 mil coming off the books after next season, so they might be willing to take back a contract. Of course, they may prefer to enter next summer with some cap flexibility.

[justanotherspursfan]

The one thing about that theory is that the Spurs will have $20 mil coming off the books after next season, so they might be willing to take back a contract. Of course, they may prefer to enter next summer with some cap flexibility.
My guess is that while they won't take garbage back just to trade Barry and Beno, if they can get someone they really value, why not lock in a player for the stretch run as well as future seasons instead of waiting to roll the dice during the summer? The chance of a superstar falling into our laps over the summer is pretty low, and finding good supporting pieces can happen just as well in February as over the summer.

[Marcus Bryant]

My guess is that while they won't take garbage back just to trade Barry and Beno, if they can get someone they really value, why not lock in a player for the stretch run as well as future seasons instead of waiting to roll the dice during the summer? The chance of a superstar falling into our laps over the summer is pretty low, and finding good supporting pieces can happen just as well in February as over the summer.

I don't know man. You would think the Spurs would lay it all out for the next couple of seasons while TD and Manu are still close to their primes.

[ducks]

manu is past his prime

[justanotherspursfan]

I don't know man. You would think the Spurs would lay it all out for the next couple of seasons while TD and Manu are still close to their primes.
If Duncan follows the path of Kareem and a number of other big men who don't depend on athleticism for their game, he could have another 5 solid years left. That says to me that you still need to build for the long haul -- 5 years is an eternity in sports. Even though guys like Splitter, Mahinmi, and Sanikidze may not help us this year or next, they may be key pieces of a title team before Timmy hangs em up.

[Marcus Bryant]

If Duncan follows the path of Kareem and a number of other big men who don't depend on athleticism for their game, he could have another 5 solid years left. That says to me that you still need to build for the long haul -- 5 years is an eternity in sports. Even though guys like Splitter, Mahinmi, and Sanikidze may not help us this year or next, they may be key pieces of a title team before Timmy hangs em up.

I think an overlooked aspect of the Spurs' success over the last 5 seasons has been Ginobili. Once his career hits the wall, so will the Spurs' postseason runs. That's why the next 2 seasons are crucial, in my view.

[justanotherspursfan]

I think an overlooked aspect of the Spurs' success over the last 5 seasons has been Ginobili. Once his career hits the wall, so will the Spurs' postseason runs. That's why the next 2 seasons are crucial, in my view.
That's a legit concern. Parker definitely hasn't demonstrated he can be Kobe to Duncan's Shaq on a 2-man team surrounded by role players.

It may be that the limited minutes that Manu is playing these days can extend his career, or the Spurs might somehow find a way to land another legit star when Manu starts wearing out. If neither of these happens, you'll be dead right.

[Marcus Bryant]

Lay it all on the line today. Plus it's not like they wouldn't be able to pare down payroll a little next summer with the ending contracts.

[Rick Von Braun]

Lay it all on the line today. Plus it's not like they wouldn't be able to pare down payroll a little next summer with the ending contracts.

Exactly! Most people don't realize how extremely difficult is to win a championship, let alone, build a championship team that could last many years. I would rather win 2-3 more championships in the next 4-5 years than playing it safe financially and perhaps not win shit ever again.

With TD and Manu in their primes: Win now, worry later.

[whottt]

WTF is up with the Sato avatar?

[spurscenter]

Manu is very inconsistent, the spurs go by how he plays. When its an off nights, spurs win by 2-8 or lose by 10. Its scary when Manu struggles

Duncan and Parker are gonna be the steady horse. but Manu needs to be more consistent like James Worthy was to Magic and Kareem.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

I don't know man. You would think the Spurs would lay it all out for the next couple of seasons while TD and Manu are still close to their primes.

I guess it comes down to how important the team's net income is vs. winning. If you can be a contender and save millions by being under the cap is that better than making the team stronger and making less money?

The financial side of the equation is that after the Big 3 is past their prime are people going to still buy tickets to see the Spurs play? Maybe the thinking is let's make a lot of $$$jack while we can and stay as competitive as possible.

[Marcus Bryant]

I guess it comes down to how important the team's net income is vs. winning. If you can be a contender and save millions by being under the cap is that better than making the team stronger and making less money?

The financial side of the equation is that after the Big 3 is past their prime are people going to still buy tickets to see the Spurs play? Maybe the thinking is let's make a lot of $$$jack while we can and stay as competitive as possible.

Yet most of the free agents the Spurs could sign (Udoka, Barnes) and conceivably could have signed (Scola) will be on at most 3 year deals. Plus another item which seems to go unnoticed in this forum is that the Spurs will have $20 mil coming off the books next summer in Horry, Finley, Barry, Elson, and Udrih, with Splitter and Mahinmi stuck on rookie contracts at $700K starting when they join. The Spurs will have plenty of payroll relief coming down the pike next summer.

[coopdogg3]

Gotta save up during the fat years, to pay off the lean years. Joseph, Egypt, and the whole Bible thing taught me that.

[Marcus Bryant]

$20 mil's coming off next "fat" year.

[coopdogg3]

$20 mil's coming off next "fat" year.

Well they may try to resign Bowen, maybe Finley too. They will also have to spend between 5-8 million (whatever they have left under the cap) to replace all those fat contracts. They only have a couple cheap contracts (Splitter, possibly Mahinmi, whatever their draft pick is) coming on board to replace all those players that are leaving. Meaning they may only save about 8 million or so out of that 20 million. Still in good shape for Holt, but that "fat" year is becoming quite a bit leaner.

[Marcus Bryant]

Well they may try to resign Bowen, maybe Finley too. They will also have to spend between 5-8 million (whatever they have left under the cap) to replace all those fat contracts. They only have a couple cheap contracts (Splitter, possibly Mahinmi, whatever their draft pick is) coming on board to replace all those players that are leaving. Meaning they may only save about 8 million or so out of that 20 million. Still in good shape for Holt, but that "fat" year is becoming quite a bit leaner.

Splitter at $700K replaces Elson at $3.3 mil. Bonner will replace Horry. Barry's gone and it's unlikely the Spurs pay $5 mil for the next 4th swingman.

You aren't going to be able to come up with anything close to $12 mil, let alone $20 mil. And an $8 mil reduction would put them well out of sight of the lux tax threshold.

[coopdogg3]

Splitter at $700K replaces Elson at $3.3 mil. Bonner will replace Horry. Barry's gone and it's unlikely the Spurs pay $5 mil for the next 4th swingman.

You aren't going to be able to come up with anything close to $12 mil, let alone $20 mil. And an $8 mil reduction would put them well out of sight of the lux tax threshold.

Well if they resign Bowen to about a 3 million per year deal, Splitter and Mahinmi (assuming he comes over) comes to about 1.5 million combined, if they spend 5-8 million on FA (depending on their cap room), that brings us to 9.5-12 million of that 20 already spoken for, if they replace all the lost contracts with minimum deals we're well into the 12 million dollar range, quite possible a good bit over. Still safely under luxury tax, Holt is still doing fine, but they aren't gonna lose $20 million worth of contracts and pocket the money. They'll have to be replaced. Maybe they don't resign Bowen, maybe they don't spend 5-8 million on FAs. But that's for next year to decide. Right now, however, a lot of that 20 million is spoken for. Guess we'll see.

[Marcus Bryant]

So $9 to 12 mil is gone if they spend $5 to 8 mil in free agency and $8 to 11 mil will be off the books. That's a bit less than "most" of it being spoken for.

[coopdogg3]

Plus they'll have a few minimum deals that will have to round out the roster, that could bring that 9-12 to 11-15 depending on which minimum deals they work out. Shrug. Don't know what you call most or whatnot, but there it is.

[Marcus Bryant]

They will enjoy a substantial payroll reduction next summer which should knock them well below the lux tax threshold and that's with them addressing most of the talent lost.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Yet most of the free agents the Spurs could sign (Udoka, Barnes) and conceivably could have signed (Scola) will be on at most 3 year deals. Plus another item which seems to go unnoticed in this forum is that the Spurs will have $20 mil coming off the books next summer in Horry, Finley, Barry, Elson, and Udrih, with Splitter and Mahinmi stuck on rookie contracts at $700K starting when they join. The Spurs will have plenty of payroll relief coming down the pike next summer.

You're right, and I'm just reaching for answers at this point anyway. Losing Butler and Scola...for nothing...to the Rockets no less, goes against all rational thought. I feel like someone's reprogramming the matrix from underneath me. Trading the potential of two good future contributors for a short term $6M savings makes no logical sense. Especially when it conceivably could make the Rockets that much better.

Heck, Butler might plug nicely into the 5 spot if Yao goes out because Houston is used to playing with a center who isn't lightning quick down the floor. Scola is going to be a great compliment to Yao. I think any decent tweener forward would do fine next to Yao.

[spurscenter]

i really think its because we signed Lindsey.