Are the Rockets now a big threat to the Spurs?

[The_Game]

Are Houston now contenders?

Adding Scola, James and a new coach who will help them more offensively. Can we add Houston as title contenders?

[Findog]

God, the way you guys go on about Scola, he's the GOAT. Trade Duncan instead and give his starting spot to Scola.

[Testing]

No, they have yet to prove they can get out of the first round...experience plays a big role in the postseason, just ask the Cavs.

[ducks]

yeah they are so dangerous
because mcgrady and ming always stay healthy
and scola is a proven nba player!

[Mister Sinister]

Are Houston now contenders?

Adding Scola, James and a new coach who will help them more offensively. Can we add Houston as title contenders?

If you're asking for this year, I'm going to have to give a rather emphatic "Aw, hell, nah." There's always the chance that Scola won't transition well into the NBA (and, for the record, if that happens, I will have to laugh myself silly), and good offense doesn't necessarily mean jack. -CoughPHOENIXCough-

[ducks]

No, they have yet to prove they can get out of the first round...experience plays a big role in the postseason, just ask the Cavs.
true
no team that has never gotten out of the first round gets to the finals that year
houston has but not any of the houston players there now

[Findog]

They had James before, the dude is a schizo and is extremely overrated. So he scored 20 ppg for a shitty Toronto team. Color me awestruck. JVG to Adelman is a step down. At least under the Chrome-domed one they could play defense.

And honestly, what are Scola's numbers in Spain? 14 ppg? How much of an upgrade over Juwan Howard is he gonna be?

[RiverwalkParade]

As long as the Rockets have T-Mac they are not legitimate playoff contenders. Watch out for the day that Yao gets 20+ shots a game, that is when you need to worry about the Rockets. Not because Yao is so good, but because this is still a big mans league and they refuse to run their offense through their big man. Now if the Rockets dumped T-Mac for a quality point guard and some role players, now you have a team

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Ask me in April.

[Solid D]

Of course they are a threat. The Rockets had the 5th best record in the NBA last season. The Pistons were the only Eastern Conference team with a better record than Houston.

They upgraded at the PG position with Aaron Brooks, who should shine in Adelman's system. Scola will help them. They were, and are, a threat to the Spurs.

[Bruno]

Wells is the only player who cna make them really better.
Mike James is a ballhog, Brooks will be a rookie and Scola won't be in his rookie year an upgrade over Juwan Howard.

[Mr. Body]

Yes, for Solid D's reasons. Everyone else in the thread is a ponce.

If Houston gells, they have scoring options everywhere. I'd lock them into the second round at this point. They're not championship contenders, but they've improved more than any other significant team at this point.

[lotr1trekkie]

Scola will score the winning basket to eliminate the Mavs in next years playoffs while Butler is punking Dampier. That's the untown strategy behine the trade.

[degenerate_gambler]

God, the way you guys go on about Scola, he's the GOAT. Trade Duncan instead and give his starting spot to Scola.


alot of 'm are all over his nutsack for sure.


same ones that will be the first to say 'i told you so..' when he proves himself to be only an avg at best nba player.

[Mr. Body]

same ones that will be the first to say 'i told you so..' when he proves himself to be only an avg at best nba player.

A lot of clueless people on these boards. Even if he's above average, or even average, he's far better than what Houston had at that position. So why don't you make them pay for him?

He was a league-wide asset with good potential, All-Star or not (and it's a Bush-like strawman argument to claim anybody here ever said he was GOAT or an All-Star), yet the Spurs elected to sell him for cash rather than basketball value.

[Fabbs]

Adleman is 5 million times better then Van Grunty. That Van Grunty even got this gig is a sad testimony to the good ole boys coaching circle.

Yes, a healthy Rockets team will be a threat in the playoffs.

[AFBlue]

Houston is closer to being a title contender this upcoming season than they were last season....and that's not something any of the top 3 (Spurs, Mavs, Suns) can say.

Anytime you add players to your roster and count on players to stay healthy that normally have issues, there is certainly room for error.

But, based on their talent I would say that they do have a legitimate shot at the title.

[Oh, Gee!!]

Houston is closer to being a title contender this upcoming season than they were last season....and that's not something any of the top 3 (Spurs, Mavs, Suns) can say.

Anytime you add players to your roster and count on players to stay healthy that normally have issues, there is certainly room for error.

But, based on their talent I would say that they do have a legitimate shot at the title.


won't scola still be under contract with his Spanish team this upcoming season?

[MrChug]

No.

2 words: Tracy McGrady

and Mike James!...that's 4...okay gimme 4...wait: Bonzi Wells....shit that's 6, I'm done




....WAIT WAIT WAIT----2 more! Rafer Alston.

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

The Rockets are still the least predictable team in the league, IMO. Last year I wouldn't have been surprised to see them make the conference finals. I also wouldn't have been surprised to see them get destroyed by injuries again and not make the playoffs.

While I still think the Spurs could have gotten a lot more for Butler and Scola, I don't think those guys are going to be big difference makers any time soon. A lack of front court athleticism cost them dearly last year as Boozer pretty much had his way with anyone they put on him. What I know and have seen of both of them is that while they might bring some scoring punch down low, they aren't very athletic or great defenders.

Overall I think the Rockets made some solid acquisitions this summer. They needed depth and youth everywhere and they've certainly gotten some. They still remain a monster question mark in mind though, particularly in regards to Yao being in a up tempo offense. If he can become a guy who can find a streaking guard right off of a rebound then there's hope, but otherwise he's not going to beat anyone up the floor.

[smrattler]

I think that coaching move will have more of a negative effect this year than a positive. I think the Rockets will eventually become a good scoring team that has guys that can play some defense too. A good rebounding team too. But the transition is huge going from JVG's to Addelman's style and playbook.

They might win as many or maybe a few more than they did last season, but they won't be clicking enough this year to be a real threat in the playoffs. Especially defensively, which is one thing JVG did well in preparing his team to do. And that spells playoff trouble.

Just my opinion.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

No they are not contenders.

[mardigan]

The added the one thing that had plagued this team, depth and scoring off the bench.
I dont know if they are title contenders, but they have had a great off-season

[AFBlue]

won't scola still be under contract with his Spanish team this upcoming season?

Nope, he's working on a buyout with Tau and contract with Houston as we speak.

95% he'll be a Rocket and 85% he'll be the starting PF on Opening Day.

[hater]

scola is nothing more but a decent addition to a mediocre injury prone team. The rockets ain't shit.

[samikeyp]

No.

[Findog]

Okay, who would win a game of one-on-one: Duncan vs. Mini-Scola? If they play to 12 and each basket counts as one, I say Mini-Scola over Duncan 12-2.

I got another one: Scola vs a Category Four Hurricane? I gotta go with Scola.

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

Okay, who would win a game of one-on-one: Duncan vs. Mini-Scola? If they play to 12 and each basket counts as one, I say Mini-Scola over Duncan 12-2.

I got another one: Scola vs a Category Four Hurricane? I gotta go with Scola.
But the name of the hurricane is Hurricane Scola...

[spursreport]

While the Rockets are a tough draw for the Spurs, the Mavs are still our toughest. They know how to beat us and Dirk tends to have a comfort zone playing the Spurs especially at the AT&T center.

[Findog]

But the name of the hurricane is Hurricane Scola...

:tu

[Dalhoop]

Alright, the Rockets are still missing a PG, they have the bodies (Alston, Brooks and James) but if you ranks NBA PG's none of those three would rank very high on the list.

The are set at SG and SF with T-Mac, Battier, and Hayes. Although only T-mac strikes fear, he is enough)

PF could be a problem if Scola does not instantly pick up the NBA game, if he doesn't insert the undersized Hayes back into the starting line-up and there is a big hole.

Center is set Yao, though a back-up will still be a problem.

The same problem that has been with the Rockets the last few years will be a question this coming year. Their two ALL STAR players are injury prone, without eith Yao or T-mac for any length of time and the team crumbles.

This was not to complete case last year as the team had the defense to stay in games, under Adlmen (Spelling?) that will not be the case. They will want to score and their best players at scoring are injury prone ...

They can compete when healthy with the Spurs, Mavs, Suns. Its that health that is their biggest question. To me, the Rockets are hard to read because of the health issues .... I'm going to say that they are not "Contenders" because too many things that do not normally go their way, will have to go their way for them to be contenders.

[CharlieMac]

We're talking the Houston Rockets right?

[Slinkyman]

how can Houston be title contenders when they can't get out of the 1st round?

[sprrs]

A lot of clueless people on these boards. Even if he's above average, or even average, he's far better than what Houston had at that position. So why don't you make them pay for him?

He was a league-wide asset with good potential, All-Star or not (and it's a Bush-like strawman argument to claim anybody here ever said he was GOAT or an All-Star), yet the Spurs elected to sell him for cash rather than basketball value.

No one was going to offer more than a second round pick for him. At least bring up the division rival argument if you're still pissed about the trade. Even so, the move opened up a roster spot which (though still undetermined) could potentially make the Spurs better.

[mystargtr34]

I was looking at Span's Euroleague stats today. His scoring/slashing game is impressive as he scores at a good rate with a GREAT percentage for a guard. The main problem, turnovers - his Ass/TO ratio was nearly 1-1 which is ridiculous.

[mystargtr34]

Oh and no, the Rockets are not 'contenders' because they have more againsts than fors

[Sweetey]

Are Houston now contenders?

Adding Scola, James and a new coach who will help them more offensively. Can we add Houston as title contenders?
Not only NO, but HELL NO !!

[itzsoweezee]

yeah. they were a threat last year too. and now they've significantly upgraded their biggest liability - the pf position. is it enough to beat the spurs? i don't know. but if james plays well, they've got as good a shot as anyone.

[Hemotivo]

yeah. they were a threat last year too. and now they've significantly upgraded their biggest liability - the pf position. is it enough to beat the spurs? i don't know. but if james plays well, they've got as good a shot as anyone.
:tu

[davi78239]

No!

[DOMINATOR]

i think some of you are forgetting the rockets will practically be adding a real 6th man, since Bonzi will be playing this year (stupid JVG) so it'll be like picking up a hopefully average PF and 2 scorers off the bench: bonzi+James >>> Head+Howard
rockets lost to the jazz because there was no bench.

[tmtcsc]

Who was the last coach to take his team to the Finals in his first year ?

Pat Riley ?

[MrChug]

Alright, the Rockets are still missing a PG, they have the bodies (Alston, Brooks and James) but if you ranks NBA PG's none of those three would rank very high on the list.

The are set at SG and SF with T-Mac, Battier, and Hayes. Although only T-mac strikes fear, he is enough)

PF could be a problem if Scola does not instantly pick up the NBA game, if he doesn't insert the undersized Hayes back into the starting line-up and there is a big hole.

Center is set Yao, though a back-up will still be a problem.

The same problem that has been with the Rockets the last few years will be a question this coming year. Their two ALL STAR players are injury prone, without eith Yao or T-mac for any length of time and the team crumbles.

This was not to complete case last year as the team had the defense to stay in games, under Adlmen (Spelling?) that will not be the case. They will want to score and their best players at scoring are injury prone ...

They can compete when healthy with the Spurs, Mavs, Suns. Its that health that is their biggest question. To me, the Rockets are hard to read because of the health issues .... I'm going to say that they are not "Contenders" because too many things that do not normally go their way, will have to go their way for them to be contenders.

Stop posting...you sound like an intelligent mavsfan. An anomaly.

[Udrihlooms]

Yes, they are a threat to Spurs now...

Can't we get back Scola from Rockets if we offer Duncan+1st round Pick+Cash and +Popovich?

I'm trembling with fear over this Scola guy.

Seriously, the only perceived threat against a repeat are the Mavs. If we can get the Warriors as their first round opponent, I think we'll repeat.

And I'd like to have the Cavs again as our eastern opponent. Maybe we can force them into submission in game 3, and they'll forfeit the 4th game. :p:

[Roxsfan]

i think some of you are forgetting the rockets will practically be adding a real 6th man, since Bonzi will be playing this year (stupid JVG) so it'll be like picking up a hopefully average PF and 2 scorers off the bench: bonzi+James >>> Head+Howard
rockets lost to the jazz because there was no bench.


Yeah, I think a lot of these "rockets are not contenders b/c of health and shiit" need to remember that Houston won 52 games last season with Yao out for nearly 1/2 the season and Tmac out for 10 games or so.....

Just think for a moment if they have no significant injuries......just try real hard, I know it's tough.........but........they were and are title contenders.

More realistically, they will have to adjust to all the new coaches/players/system while not forgetting about D. But, as Adelman says when asked the same thing........"let me reiterate, we need to prove our strengths on the court".

I agree with him, no team will feel threatened by the Rox if they continue to get hurt, continue to lose key games against division rivals and other key teams during the season, or go through a significant losing streak and finally not get out of the first round.

So, to those that say yes....thanks....

to those that laugh at the Roxs and say hell no, I understand you are going on past history.....but if health, learning curves and a bit of luck go our way........who the fawk knows.....

but man am I looking forward to next season :hungry: :elephant

[Mr. Body]

Roxsfan, there are people here who have convinced themselves that the Scola trade has made Houston somehow much worse than before.

[BIG z]

I dont think so, i think if they get rid of Chockgrady they might be better off, he is injured most of time which actuallt results in Yao putting up great MVP numbers and the Rockets doing pretty good as a team.

[O-Factor]

The Rockets will be very competitive next year, but they need to get battle tested. The Spurs, Mavs and Suns ( and you might include the Jazz)are. They know what its like to go into a series, make adjustments, go through the up's and downs and just battle. This Rockets team doesn't. They fell apart when Utah adjusted. Its a process to become a contender. They have a coach who has been through some tough series and is tested, so they have that going for them. If the Rockets can have a good showing in the playoffs, get into the second round and be competitive, then the following year you can call them contenders.

[barbacoataco]

Can anyone really see T-Mac and Yao winning a championship? They both fold under pressure. Scola also has a reputation for not playing well in big games.

[THE SIXTH MAN]

Hang with the spurs, yes. As far as being an actual threat, this current squad would need some more time together to really threaten the spurs.

[Fast Dunk]

Hang with the spurs, yes. As far as being an actual threat, this current squad would need some more time together to really threaten the spurs.


:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

[THE SIXTH MAN]

:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol
:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

[Bruno]

Roxsfan, there are people here who have convinced themselves that the Scola trade has made Houston somehow much worse than before.

Stop acting like a dumbass.

Calling people "clueless" or "a ponce" because they disagree with you is so arrogant.

I should have watched way more games fom Scola in europe than you and I don't think that he will be a good nba player. I don't think too Butler is a good nba prospect. And I've said both things before the trade.

Maybe you're right and this trade will be horrible for Spurs in a year but maybe you're wrong too.
You should respect people's opinion instead of insulting them when they haven't the same than yours.

[whottt]

Who was the last coach to take his team to the Finals in his first year ?

Pat Riley ?



Riley was the last, or maybe it was Phil Jackson, I can't remember if he got the Bulls to the Finals in his first year, might have been his second...but now that I think about it, I think Adelman has taken the team to a finals in his first year as coach before...going through SA to do it. I believe 88-89 was Adelman's first year as a head coach. and he got the Blazers to the finals...he might have come on at the end of 88 though.

AJ almost did it...

[Mr. Body]

The ponces I was describing were those who were operating the same tiresome alchemy of trashing a player once he falls out of the Spurs' grasp and lionizing those who come in. Scola is the worst player ever and will be deadweight on Houston, Udoka is the best defender in the league since Bowen.

I realize you don't like Scola. That's fine. It's clear he'll be much better than what they had on the roster before the trade. But thanks for the schoolmarming. I revel in being chided for calling ponces ponces.

[whottt]

Edit: Larry Brown got the Pistons to the Finals his first year.

Edit: Part Deux...and Phil Jackson got the Lakers to the Finals his first year with them as well.

Both of these guys won the finals too.

[Bruno]

The ponces I was describing were those who were operating the same tiresome alchemy of trashing a player once he falls out of the Spurs' grasp and lionizing those who come in.


Yes, for Solid D's reasons. Everyone else in the thread is a ponce.


:rolleyes



It's clear he'll be much better than what they had on the roster before the trade.

Don't forget that Rockets have had to spend their MLE on Scola. You had to compare him with MLE PF available (like Joe Smith, Mikki Moore) and not with PFs on Houton roster before the trade.
It's not clear for me that Scola will be better than other PF available with the MLE.

[Mr. Body]

Don't forget that Rockets have had to spend their MLE on Scola. You had to compare him with MLE PF available (like Joe Smith, Mikki Moore) and not with PFs on Houton roster before the trade.
It's not clear for me that Scola will be better than other PF available with the MLE.

You don't think Scola will be better next year than Joe Smith? Mikki Moore? Good God. He's better than both of them sitting on each other's shoulders, much less either by himself.

And good lord, the Rox aren't spending the MLE on Scola. It's not close to the full MLE. Try again.

[Bruno]

You don't think Scola will be better next year than Joe Smith? Mikki Moore? Good God.

I don't think Scola will be better than Joe Smith next year.
Scola could maybe be better than Joe Smith after next year but i'm not sold at all on that.



He's better than both of them sitting on each other's shoulders, much less either by himself.

How many games with Scola have you seen these last 2 years ?
Are you speaking from your ass again ?



And good lord, the Rox aren't spending the MLE on Scola. It's not close to the full MLE. Try again.

Try again.
Scola will cost them more money than just his contract. Add Butler's salary, the $500K given to Tau, the $350k they won't get back from Spanoulis and the cash given in the trade.
3 years of Scola will cost them between $12.5M and $15.5M.
Joe Smith has signed a $10M/2 years contract.

[Mr. Body]

I don't think Scola will be better than Joe Smith next year.
Scola could maybe be better than Joe Smith after next year but i'm not sold at all on that.

The next game Joe Smith has had any impact on will be his first.


How many games with Scola have you seen these last 2 years ?
Are you speaking from your ass again ?

More than you've apparently watched Joe Smith, you monkey-rapist.


Try again.
Scola will cost them more money than just his contract. Add Butler's salary, the $500K given to Tau, the $350k they won't get back from Spanoulis and the cash given in the trade.
3 years of Scola will cost them between $12.5M and $15.5M.
Joe Smith has signed a $10M/2 years contract.

Ah, brainless one, you said Scola will cost them the MLE. No. His contract is 3 yrs. for $9.3M. Why are you lying?

The buyout does not apply to the contract figure. The bullshit statistic of Spanoulis's contract is, well, it's just stupid to even include here.

If you want to go on this "Joe Smith is better than Luis Scola" children's crusade, then go march off in your jammies by yourself. If you want to add this bizarre curlique that somehow Smith is making less money than Scola and is therefore a better deal... well, my friend, it doesn't say much for the math skills of whatever foul little burgh bore you: 9.3<10. And especially 9.3/3<<<10/2.

You're full of shit up to your ears on this one. Just submit, you're looking completely foolish.

[Bruno]

More than you've apparently watched Joe Smith, you monkey-rapist.

So I was right.
Mr. Body is again talking from his ass and insult people who disagree with him about a player he doesn't know. :lol




Ah, brainless one, you said Scola will cost them the MLE.

No, RIF.



His contract is 3 yrs. for $9.3M. Why are you lying?

Have I said that his contract won't be $9.3M/3 years ?
I've just said that he will cost them more than his contract.




9.3<10. And especially 9.3/3<<<10/2.

Scola won't cost $9.3M to Rockets, try again.



You're full of shit up to your ears on this one. Just submit, you're looking completely foolish.

When Mr. Body is owned, he start insulting people.

[whottt]

RE: Adelman and the Rockets and the threat they present:

Adelman:

Adelman is a good coach. IMO, he's better than Van Gundy as an x and o coach(who is sickeningly over-rated on the basis of the 99 Knicks), and if he hadn't landed with Houston, I would have wanted him to replace PJ on the bench if he would have gone for it. For his offensive IQ and mastery of the Princeton offense. Our offense would have kicked ass....and Pop would have been a buffer from the major flaws of Adelman as a coach(which I'll get to later) impacting our team.

He's a great offensive coach, but he can coach his teams to do anything...including play D. Extremely versatile. Half court, up tempo...he can adjust his teams immediately to do any of these things way better than you would expect, doing it featuring guards or bigs.

He's very good at being dealt a bad hand, like injuries, and turning that into an advantage...I've seen him do that a lot in his career and the dude deserves credit for it...his Blazer teams, his King teams would get injured, and he'd somehow get them to play even better with a short hand.

You know how Pop says it's sometimes tougher to play teams missing a key player because you don't know what to expect? I'd say that Adelman was the guy that taught Pop that lesson more than any other NBA coach.

He did it to Pop as an assistant on the 89 Spurs when Duckworth was injured...and he was notorious for doing it to us when Webber and Vlade were down for the Kings.



Other positives:

He's been very good with a variety of different types of Superstar players.
His Kings teams were built primarily around the creating and passing of skilled offensive bigmen and lights out jump shooting by his guards, while his Blazer teams were built primarily around the creating of Drexler and Porter and relied more on inside toughness and high high high PCT shooting from their bigs, like Buck Williams. The creator and shooter roles were completely reversed between his Blazer and Kings teams....pretty neat trick actually.

But his preference is the Princeton offense ran through a bigman...and contrary to what many people on the board think, because of the last time we played the Kings in the playoffs....he does want to run, all the time.

His teams tend to be excellent offensive teams, half court, uptempo, and unlike the Suns, he eventually turns them into pretty under-rated defensive teams...they don't play D like the Spurs...it's a different type of D...have all his guys swipe down at the ball going for steals, and they don't do it for the entire game, usually late in the game...it works pretty good for him once he gets his guys to buy into it, which is usually after a couple of playoff loses. IMO, some of his Blazer teams were actually better defensive teams than they were offensive teams...and the 2002 Kings were only behind the Spurs in opp FG% I believe....deceptively good on D.


Anyway...you saw what happened to the Kings this year...they came apart at the seams when he left. And you saw how his soft Kings suddenly turned into a physical halfcourt beast against us in 06 instantly built around the physicality of his big 2 guards in Artest and Bonzi(contract year didn't hurt Bonzi's motivation either) He can do that...he's very good at it....he'll find a way to exploit weaknesses on opposing teams if he has the players to do it...even if he has to change his style to do it.


And as mentioned earlier, a lot of his Kings teams actually got better the more injured they got. They year they won 61 games or whatever, the best player Webber, was injured for 30 something games that year...they always seemed to play better without Webber now that I think about it. Maybe that was just because he's Webber.


But he does have his faults...

#1. He's not an automatic playoff berth, as his 2 year stint with Golden State proved. During his successful stints in Portland and Sacremento...at times he had arguably the most talented and deepest teams in the league...filty rich with talent. The 2002 Kings probably were the most talented and deepest team in the NBA. That's part of the reason he was able to be so effective with players out due to injury...

#2. He's a players coach, but he overdoes it. His players tend to become soft primadonna distractions the longer he's with them...and his teams usually end up broken to pieces by the time he is done blowing up their egos. He's a lot like Mike Dunleavy like this....not a disciplinarian at all. And his teams always seem to end up with chemistry issues and fights about who the star is etc.

His players tend to love him because he never admonishes them and let's them get away with murder, and always blames the refs for their shortcomings...I don't think I've heard Adelman say we played bad and our opponents deserved to win. after losing in the playoffs...it's always, we didn't get the calls. Always...even Phil Jackson and George Karl stop doing it after the series is over...Adelman doesn't. I mean he says the right words...but he also says enough to let you know that he doesn't really accept responsibility for the loss.

He's going to make Mike D'antoni's whining seem tame. By the end of his Rockets tenure...he'll have turned TMac, Yao, every other Rocket Player, all their execs and half their fans...into ref whiners.

I mean Brad Miller was actually a pretty hard nosed player once upon a time...undrafted guy that busted ass to get to the NBA and wasn't afriad to get physical with anyone..including Shaq, in fact he seemed to enjoy it.

Adelman literally turned Brad Miller into the biggest pussy ever to step foot onto an NBA court...and he did it while making Miller's offensive numbers shoot through the roof..

I'd take Pre King Brad Miller with lesser numbers over the soft non d pouty passing wiz that emerged on the Kings.

Now some of it is that Adelman has had choking stars to begin with...Drexler, Webber...but a lot of it is him...he's turned Bibby, Miller, all those guys into pussies. I think he's probably responsible to this day for Cliff Robinson being a choker...and I don't think poor Terry Porter was able to overcome the choke instilled in him by Adelman. And yeah...he didn't help Hedo much either.

So even if you can't blame him for the choking pedigree of Webber and the Pre Rocket Drexler...he damn sure wasn't the cure for it either. And there is some evidence he makes it worse.

He's also not any better at developing young guys than Pop or Phil Jackson...he's developed a couple, but so have Pop and Phil Jackson.


#3. And this is the biggest issue with him...his teams are always mentally weak and this stems from him...this guy is the biggest whiner, the biggest excuse maker, the biggest ref blamer...to ever suit up as a coach in an NBA game. He constantly whines, his players follow his lead and whine, and IMO, he encourages them to whine along with him...he's always done this on every team he has been on...and the end result is that his teams never truly believe their destiny is in their own hands....and that's a huge mental disadvantage...a huge mental weakness that seems to be a trait on every team he coaches.

"But, but, he got the Blazers to the Finals and turned the Kings into the team that nearly dethroned the Lakers" you say?

On the surface it may seem that way...but the 88-89 Spurs were babies, and the only reason they didn't win that series, against a much more talented and experienced team...is because of the infamous no look pass.

2002 Kings?

Well #1, they were probably most talented team in the NBA and they choked.

#2...

And this has always been an issue with me...

The Spurs beat the crap out of the Lakers in the playoffs in 2002...they beat the shit out of them...it was only a 5 game series that we lost...but it was a brutally physical series that punished the Lakers and it took a physical toll on them, that was not apparent until the Kings series. They were tired by that King series. Bruce beat the crap out of Kobe in that series...and the Spurs bigmen beat the shit out of Shaq as well. IMO. That was Malik's finest hour as a Spur IMO.

The Lakers were actually closer to losing that 5 game series against the Spurs than they were the 7 gamer against the Kings...they weren't down by double digits entering the 4th in every game against the Kings like they were us. IF Smitty or Porter(a hard nosed player taught how to choke by Adelman) had been able to buy a fucking open shot off the Duncan triple teams...we'd have won that series, and we'd have won it convincingly. God that series was a miserable one.

And no one gave the Spurs credit for completely physically dominating the Lakers in that series without a healthy Drob...but they did. Through the first 3 quarters of every game of that series...the Spurs were dominating the Lakers more than they did in any other series of the Shaq Kobe era.

The 2002 Spurs IIRC, had a double digit lead against the Lakers in every game that series entering the 4th quarter, and Phil would simply triple team Duncan and let Smitty and Porter, and to a lesser extent Ferry and AD, choke us out of the game. That series was so close IMO, that Steve Kerr could have swung it to a win without even hitting a shot, just by keeping that third defender off of Duncan. And that was probably why we brought Kerr back the following season, and said goodbye to Porter without really missing him. Might have been nice if Jack got off the bench in that series as well..anyone that Phil wouldn't double...Phil smelt the chokers and capitalized to the max....as he is so excellent at doing.


But anyway...2002 Spurs Lakers impacted the Lakers Kings, in a way that was very similar IMO, to the way the 06 Kings were actually a hidden reason we lost to the Mavs in 06...it was just a tough tough physical series and the physical toll wasn't apparent on the Lakers till the next series...just like us against the Mavs in 06. Sometimes you can win a series and still be worn out after it...especially with an aging team that has logged a bunch of playoff games in the preceding year.

That IMO was the biggest reason the 02 Kings took the Lakers to 7 games...prior to that year, the Lakers would just sweep the Kings like they were garbage...and the Kings didn't ever really do much again after that...Bibby became a choking whiner after that as well.

But back to the 02 Kings...they choked...they still could have won that series...even in the Horry game, they blew like a 23 point lead or something. But they lost that series...at the FT line in the final game...and they were a great FT shooting team. Adelman lead them into choking that series with his constant ref whining.

So it wasn't really that Adelman did anything amazing those years....even though on the surface it may seem that way...he had talented teams, that had the upperhand, and choked.

Adelman's Rockets?

Well that mental weakness thing is Adelman's biggest weakness as a coach and the reason I don't fear him or his Rockets...His teams are mentally weak and undisciplined...and it stems from him, and his incessant ref whining over every single call against his team...his players pick up on it, he lets them do it, they follow his lead, and they spend more time worrying about the refs than they do about their opponents...and it tends to get worse every year he is the coach of those teams...even if it doesn't show up in the W-L column...and even if he is getting more out of them than another coach would.


Another thing with him and this Rocket Team...

The Rockets have been a horrible plodding offensive team, a lot of that was Van Gundy himself...who has made a career out of mimicking the thugball phase of Pat Riley's career in NY when he had limited offensive personnel, and never really done much beyond that evem whem he has had talent...but a lot of it is their personnel....So Adelman's not just going to instantly turn these guys into the Kings. Yao is good in the half court...but he cannot stay on the court if you run...and Scola is actually pretty good in a running style of offense...but he's too slow to do it in the NBA...and Butler has way to many flaws in every other aspect of his game for his passing to do more good than the rest of him is going to do harm.

These Rockets are not going to be as good offensively as those Kings teams, TMac and Yao or not..it's going to take a couple of years.

In a way...this trade, it almost seems like the Rockets are moving away from Yao.


Secondly...
Mentally weak coach? Whiner?

TMac is a mentally weak player...Yao looks like one and has performed like one...and Scola has had similar struggles in big games in Europe..and IMO he's a whiner...Adelman isn't going to cure these flaws. He's going to make them worse.


Mentally weak coach added to mentally weak players...whining player given to a whiner...

There is nothing to fear there fellow Spurs fans....if Scola was a big game performer...he wouldn't have been traded to the Rockets...or given to Adelman. And the Spurs do look at the way players perform in big games when deciding if they want them on the Spurs...it's always been a criteria. And it's a big reason they didn't have much faith in Scola and he wound up on the Rockets...inspite of the long held belief that it is a no-no to trade to a divisional rival.

Scola will put up numbers..so will Yao, and so will Butler...but unless Jackie Butler is one of the clutchest bigmen ever, and we just didn't see it, and somehow gets into the rotation...this team isn't winning any titles with Adelman as the coach...

And watching Adelman turn Yao into a whining pouting bitch, is going to make me kind of sad...but afraid? No...in fact...even though I know Adelman is a better and more versatile coach than Van Gundy...the fact that I know they are going to wind up whinier and mentally weaker...I'm less afraid of them than I was with Van Gundy. They'll win more probably and be better offensively and more fun to watch...but I think they'll ultimately be easier to beat in the post season now.





So no...they are not now a big threat to the Spurs...damn sure not because of fucking Scola who is going to be matched up against Duncan...no more than they were.

The only threat they present is the inherent threat presented by Bonzi and TMa, which they already presented...Scola is not even a factor in it...and TMac is probably going to wind up even more fucked up because of being exposed to Adelman's faults....which is a good thing. You can't stick that many soft and mentally weak elements together and get something unsoft and mentally strong out of it...it'll be worse, not better. That's if they're healthy...a trait not found on many of Adelman's teams.




IOW, that's a big fat resounding no ;)

[timvp]

Holy crap that's the longest post I've seen in SpursTalk history.

Props. I might have to read that in the morning, though :lol

[whottt]

I put a lot of thought into this stuff....this offseason is boring the shit out of me. Even the D-league is bleh...

I don't care if we sign NVE and AJ again...but I need to see some action soon.


It's almost like the Spurs are trying to make this a boring one...no Sanikidze PT...no good rumors. Ludden writing boring crap.

I'll even welcome the return of the Manu in Argentina articles...something, anything.

[Dalhoop]

I am in awe of the length of that post ... Speachless ... WOW

Good post by the way :)

[urunobili]

The magic move of the spurs FO office is that they dealt Scola to the Rockets so they get rid of the Mavs in the first round... then Phoenix will handle them appropriately...

[WalterBenitez]

Regular season... perhaps...
Playoffs... nah TMAC sucks

[SAGambler]

Are the Rockets a big threat to the Spurs?

Well, they must be. They just obtained the Savior in Scola. Or at least that seems to be the consensus of Spurs fans.

But wait a sec. They still have to deal with the injury prone TMac and Yao. That could slow em down a bit.

Man I can't wait for the first time we play Houston and watch Scola get owned by the Spurs.

[AFBlue]

Regular season... perhaps...
Playoffs... nah TMAC sucks

I think the Spurs fans said that about the Mavs....until the Mavs beat them in the 06 playoffs.

I'm not saying the Rockets will beat the Spurs, but they've added enough pieces to make it interesting...in the regular season OR the playoffs.

[TDMVPDPOY]

they are only a thread if bonzi wells plays like its a contract year again....

[SAGambler]

But his preference is the Princeton offense ran through a bigman...and contrary to what many people on the board think, because of the last time we played the Kings in the playoffs....he does want to run, all the time.

And IMO that will be the downfall of Houston. Yao can't just run up and down the court all the time. He will be completely winded by the end of the 1st. Ever notice how much trouble Yao has in the 4th quarters most nights? His legs probably feel like they are about to go to sleep. Now imagine those same legs in a fast paced offense. No way Yao stays up with that routine.

[AFBlue]

And IMO that will be the downfall of Houston. Yao can't just run up and down the court all the time. He will be completely winded by the end of the 1st. Ever notice how much trouble Yao has in the 4th quarters most nights? His legs probably feel like they are about to go to sleep. Now imagine those same legs in a fast paced offense. No way Yao stays up with that routine.

Adelman's not an idiot.

He's not going to run the offense at a Phoenix pace in spite of having Yao on the court.

IMO, the Rockets will still run half-court sets and work the ball through Yao for the most part. But, I also think they will take advantage of the fastbreak opportunities and will also let T-Mac have some Iso time, freeing Yao up for a breather.

I see their offense as somewhere inbetween Phoenix and old Houston.

[SpursDynasty]

No team with Tracy McGrady as its leader is a threat to the Spurs.

Didn't they choke away a 2-0 series lead in the first round TWICE in the last 3 seasons??? To Dallas and Utah.

[Dave McNulla]

RE: Adelman and the Rockets and the threat they present:

Adelman:

Adelman is a good coach. IMO, he's better than Van Gundy as an x and o coach...<snip>

IOW, that's a big fat resounding no ;)i don't agree with everything (the lakers were closing out wicked-fast on those open shots), but i agree with most of that: brad miller goes from thug to siss; mastery of the princeton; and 06 kings tiring the spurs.


rack him.

[WalterBenitez]

I think the Spurs fans said that about the Mavs....until the Mavs beat them in the 06 playoffs.

I'm not saying the Rockets will beat the Spurs, but they've added enough pieces to make it interesting...in the regular season OR the playoffs.

Mavs could kick our ass anytime, but they won't got a ring, ok? :p:

About TMac, is the same with Vince Carter ... both sucks in preseason, not sure why... they are great, but mentality is an issue there. :sleep

About Danger? ... Steve Nash ... that boy is a killer.

[Solid D]

Holy crap that's the longest post I've seen in SpursTalk history.

Props. I might have to read that in the morning, though :lol

That's more like a filibuster than a post. If it wouldn't set a nasty precedent, I could almost recommend a spur under his title.

[sandman]

Yeah, I think a lot of these "rockets are not contenders b/c of health and shiit" need to remember that Houston won 52 games last season with Yao out for nearly 1/2 the season and Tmac out for 10 games or so.....

Just think for a moment if they have no significant injuries......just try real hard, I know it's tough.........but........they were and are title contenders.

More realistically, they will have to adjust to all the new coaches/players/system while not forgetting about D. But, as Adelman says when asked the same thing........"let me reiterate, we need to prove our strengths on the court".

I agree with him, no team will feel threatened by the Rox if they continue to get hurt, continue to lose key games against division rivals and other key teams during the season, or go through a significant losing streak and finally not get out of the first round.

So, to those that say yes....thanks....

to those that laugh at the Roxs and say hell no, I understand you are going on past history.....but if health, learning curves and a bit of luck go our way........who the fawk knows.....

but man am I looking forward to next season :hungry: :elephant

If by title contender you mean that they had a better record than most of the league, then you are correct. But they were not able to get out of the first round with all of their players healthy and home court advantage. Considering that has been their MO over the last several years (not making it out of the first round), then it would be hard to argue that they have been title contenders.

If you want to say that they can/will be title contenders in this upcoming season, that is a different story, one of which will most certainly be debated to death in the coming months.

[sandman]

I think the Spurs fans said that about the Mavs....until the Mavs beat them in the 06 playoffs.

I'm not saying the Rockets will beat the Spurs, but they've added enough pieces to make it interesting...in the regular season OR the playoffs.

No, the Mavs still suck in the playoffs, regardless if they beat us once. See: Miami and Golden State. That is what makes that series so heartbreaking. We lost to the team that would go on to the biggest back-to-back choke jobs in the history of NBA playoffs.

[Emeyin]

I wouldn't say Houston is a big threat but they are a legit threat. Scola was a good pickup for them and I think it's going to work out pretty well.

[Hoy]

they are only a thread if bonzi wells plays like its a contract year again....

Well, it is his contract year.

[Russ]

Scola fell into the Rockets' lap and could be a real contributor (or at least score some points and fill the lane). Butler can't hurt (even if he just takes up space like with the Spurs).

The Rockets seem to have a very nice roster. But I thought the same last year.

The one thing no one has focussed on is the possible negative effect of having Tracy McGrady on the squad. I think he's a team-killer of Kobe Bryant-like magnitude. And like the Lakers, the Rockets can't live with him and can't live without him.

The Rockets need a real leader to counter McGrady's effect and the humble Yao just isn't it. (Yao needs to be more like Mao.)

The one curve ball could be Scola -- but not so much for his play as his possible leadership. He seems like a no nonsense guy that the Rockets could use.

On the Spurs, he'd just get on Tim's nerves.

[Roxsfan]

1. Houston Rockets
(added Mike James, Luis Scola, Jackie Butler and Aaron Brooks; lost Juwan Howard and Vassilis Spanoulis; replaced Jeff Van Gundy with Rick Adelman)

While you're focusing on the San Antonio-Dallas-Phoenix triumvirate in the West, don't sleep on Houston. The Rockets have quietly put together a roster that could very well be the last team standing in that conference in 2008.
Start with the decision to replace Van Gundy with Adelman -- a change in direction that will likely make the team more up-tempo and offensive-minded. They'll miss Van Gundy's defensive genius, but given the offensive stagnation this club showed in 2006-07, it's not a bad trade.

Moreover, hiring Adelman was especially important in this case because it basically adds another player to the roster. Bonzi Wells bristled under Van Gundy after showing up out of shape, and hardly played last season. But he seems excited by being reunited with Adelman, who coached him to a strong campaign in Sacramento two years ago.

From there, add in two vastly underrated trades. The first one pilfered James from Minnesota for Howard, giving the Rockets a do-over on the disastrous James-for-Rafer Alston trade two years ago. The second nabbed Scola and Butler from San Antonio in return for Spanoulis.
Scola, a skilled Argentinian who has been one of the best players in Europe for the past half-decade, will make an immediate impact as a starting power forward. Butler, as a young center with strong scoring skills in the post, should energize a second unit that was bereft of offense last season.In the big picture, the Rockets aggressively addressed their three main problems: stagant offense, point guard and power forward. Between the coaching change, the additions of James and first-round pick Aaron Brooks at the point, the pickups of Scola and Butler up front, and the de facto addition of Wells, this team suddenly looks loaded. At this point in the offseason, nobody has upgraded more than this club.

[Marcus Bryant]

Had the Rockets been able to attract a Derek Fisher I'd be more worried. As it stands, they have a couple team guys in their starting lineup in Battier and Scola. It'll be interesting to see how Yao and Scola play together. They could be really good. Overall, I believe they have improved over last season. Plus Adelman should be able to mesh McGrady and Yao's games more successfully than JVG did.

[x_roux_x]

Is this really being asked? I dont believe they are...too many question marks...under the new system i see them as the next Suns team...a team who can score(not as good as the suns though) and a team that will play semi mediocre defense(which would be better than the suns). I can see them giving us some good games in the regular season but if it came down to the playoffs I will not be worried at all.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Hmmmm, how is Yao, notorious for his conditioning problems over the years, going to play in a high tempo offense? Ditto, Mutumbo. Does that mean Butler plays a bit?

Other than that, I think they will be better than last year, and when I saw them beat us in SA they looked pretty good to me. They'll be a top 5 team in the West, so we should treat them with respect.

However, I don't see them beating us in a playoff series.

All depends on whether the chemistry comes together for them, as it does for every NBA champion since Michael's Bulls (who seemed to glide through seasons to me...)

[Avitus1]

Whos taking over for Van Gundy?

[Streakyshooter08]

Francis is comming to the rockets.

http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/47233/20070719/francis_decides_on_a_second_run_in_houston/

We will see if its good or bad for them...:)

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Whos taking over for Van Gundy?
Rick Adelman. The Kings coach before Eric Musselman.

[ArgSpursFan]

Francis is comming to the rockets.

http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/47233/20070719/francis_decides_on_a_second_run_in_houston/

We will see if its good or bad for them...:)
If all peaces fall in place for the Rockets thay could have a better season tham last year.But not a championship caliper team yet.

[mardigan]

I find it funny that the Rockets wanted to find a point guard, so they bring in three new point guards that dont pass. T-Mac is going to have to wrassle the ball away from them

[ArgSpursFan]

I find it funny that the Rockets wanted to find a point guard, so they bring in three new point guards that dont pass. T-Mac is going to have to wrassle the ball away from them

it will depend on How Adelman puts it together.The good thing about it it´s that Francis,T-Mac,Yao,Scola and Co.have no NBA rings yet.
i see T-mac playin better if he is not the one and only scoring option in the perimeter,and If francis is willing to play the SG pos. they can complement each other real good.
i don´t know if they pass the playoffs 1st round,but it´ll be fun to watch though.

[George Gervin's Afro]

Defense..defense...defense..defense..

[SAGambler]

Francis is comming to the rockets.

http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/47233/20070719/francis_decides_on_a_second_run_in_houston/

We will see if its good or bad for them...:)

Just when the Rockets thought they had assembled a good group, they go and screw it up.

Any vbookie on whether Franchise or TMac puts up the most attempts next season?

[Marcus Bryant]

it will depend on How Adelman puts it together.The good thing about it it´s that Francis,T-Mac,Yao,Scola and Co.have no NBA rings yet.
i see T-mac playin better if he is not the one and only scoring option in the perimeter,and If francis is willing to play the SG pos. they can complement each other real good.
i don´t know if they pass the playoffs 1st round,but it´ll be fun to watch though.

Yeah, if McGrady essentially runs the offense it could work well. Did so for the Bulls ( and no, I am not saying TMac = MJ).

[Testing]

Ok the rockets are officially a threat (if healthy). I can't believe the roster overhall they've managed to complete this offseason.....getting Scola, Butler, and now Francis gives them a lot more offense which they were lacking previously. But they still have good defense in mutombo, yao in the paint, and of course Shane Battier. Add to it if they manage to keep bonzi wells and play him...that's a great team right there and adelman is a great coach for them...