Let's all trash Barry!

[E20]

:elephant :elephant :elephant

:rolleyes

[2centsworth]

HE CAN't HANG WITH THIS TEAM! I like him, but he doesn't have the defensive talent to play. He's better suited for the Kings.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Gimme a fucking break. New players sucking on defense when they join SA is nothing new. It's right up there with death and taxes.

[E20]

Give the guy a break. He's not known for his defense but, for his 3PT shot. New to the team first 20 games of course he's gonna struggle. Peja has all sorts of shooting slumps and he gets out of them and he's supposdly the best 3PT shooter in the league. Barry's gonna have slumps like Hedo did last year, like every shooter, in time once he get's comftrable he'll start hitting shots.

[E20]

It's like Barry said during the press conference. He's no Bruce Bowen but, he'll try his hardest to be a team defender and do what he was brought here for.

[Marcus Bryant]

Beno's progress hinders Barry somewhat because Barry's defensive weaknesses could have been masked better with his size as the backup point. At least with Hedo he brought some semblance of defense in a consistently decent manner (though his price was indeed too steep).

But Jack's wasn't.

Oh well, enough night of the loss bitching.

[2centsworth]

Great point Marcus, Beno's sub-par D doesn't do Barry any favors.

[whottt]

Anyone who blames Barry for this is fucking stupid...he didn't play after the first quarter of the game...he came in and the score was 12-11 when he left it was 31-29...his one shot attempt got blocked by Radmanovich...his man scored a total of 4 points, both times he was forcing Lewis to the baseline and no help came behind him. And even Sean Elliott had Barry's back on that...not that Lewis is an easy guard anyway.

It was stupid to not give him any more minutes...I notice the games he only plays 6 minutes tend to be close ones and our unusually good O this early in the season tends to stagnate....maybe there's a connection?

[2centsworth]

No one is blaming Barry, but we couldn't help but notice all the wide open 3pts when he was playing D or whatever you want to call it.

[Marcus Bryant]

Barry isn't to be blamed for the loss but at this point he hasn't really been helping things. If he at least had his shot falling then his defensive deficiencieswouldn't be as major of a concern right about now.

[2centsworth]

He might be the worst perimeter defender the spurs have had in a long while. I think even Steve Kerr was better.

[whottt]

Barry isn't to be blamed for the loss but at this point he hasn't really been helping things. If he at least had his shot falling then his defensive deficiencieswouldn't be as major of a concern right about now.


Oh fuck he missed his one shot that got blocked...run him out of town.

Bullshit...Pop did the same shit to Steve Kerr...fuck it trade him get some piece of shit defensive stiff...let's hold our opponents scoreless.

[whottt]

He might be the worst perimeter defender the spurs have had in a long while. I think even Steve Kerr was better.

No, Steve Kerr wouldn't even get 6 minutes if it was left up to Pop...remembeer that...and then remember game 4 of the finals when Pop tried to make his point on Kerr and got made fool of by the media.

[Marcus Bryant]

whottt a fourttth of the season is over and the man hasn't figured it out. yet.

[whottt]

Good , let Barry rot on the bench then...that way I don't hear stupid mother fuckers scapegoating the wrong guy for the loss.

You want to hang this loss on someone hang it on the head coach.

[Marcus Bryant]

I'll agree with you since tonight was a night made for the 'Give it to Timmy and watch' offense circa 1997-2003.

You beat a team like Seattle by ramming the ball down the throat of their defense. You beat a team like Seattle by going back to basics and that is feeding Tim Duncan the rock in the post.

[2centsworth]

No, Steve Kerr wouldn't even get 6 minutes if it was left up to Pop...remembeer that...and then remember game 4 of the finals when Pop tried to make his point on Kerr and got made fool of by the media.

Pop doesn't owe anyone anything. Kerr earned every minute. Again nobody is blaming barry, the fact remains we still need a reliable jump shooter who isn't an atrocious defender.

[whottt]

I just want one of you Pop sucking defensive experts explain one fucking thing to me...

Just one fucking thing...

We were down 2 points the last time Barry was in the game....Granted...we have up a healthy amount of points...but only 2 more than we gave up in the second...

In the second quarter no Barry we got ourscored by 17 points...

So I want you Pop sucking motherfuckers to just explain one fucking thing to me...how in the fuck are those guys playing good D? How in the fuck is that us clicking on more cylinders offensively or defensively...either we are destroying our O to play D or else those guys aren't playing any better D... How is it that they play good D yet get outscored by 17 points? That's good D? If it is then that is some really shitty O we are taking in the trade off.

Personally I think we'd be better off sucking at D a little more if it helps our O keep us from being outscored by 17 points.

[2centsworth]

Whott,

lay off the liquor.

[Spurminator]

The defense was horrible the entire first half, actually... It's just that we had some offense in the first quarter, whereas we scored 12 points in the second.

[whottt]

The defense was horrible the entire first half, actually... It's just that we had some offense in the first quarter, whereas we scored 12 points in the second.





That's good D? If it is then that is some really shitty O we are taking in the trade off.

Personally I think we'd be better off sucking at D a little more if it helps our O keep us from being outscored by 17 points.

[T Park]

The Spurs were within 2 in the 4th quarter without Barry, thanks to the


Defense.


Although, I think Barry shouldve played Point tonight alongside Ginobili and Bowen.

It wouldve negated Antonio Daniels and wouldve given him a chance to get some shots off in a big game.

[Marcus Bryant]

The Sonics' style of D is bound to disrupt a motion offense. they have active guards who will attack passing lanes and they have active bigs who are not afraid of bodying up on opponents and crashing the boards. They can stymie a team running a motion style O and really cause their offense to break down which is what happened to the Spurs in the 2nd quarter tonight. Think about it...against teams with weak interior defenses you want to pound the ball into Tim. When you are facing teams with stronger interior D then you want to space the floor and lift Tim.

[whottt]

The Spurs were within 2 in the 4th quarter without Barry, thanks to the


Defense.


The Spurs got down by 18 in the second quarter alone, also without Barry, and thanks to the defense and the offense.

[whottt]

The Sonics' style of D is bound to disrupt a motion offense. Think about it...against teams with weak interior defenses you want to pound the ball into Tim. When you are facing teams with stronger interior D then you want to space the floor and lift Tim.


Just don't try and tell me Barry is a bigger defensive liablity than any of those other guys when they still give up 29 points in the second, and 26 in the money 4th

...and even if he is...it might be worth it to trade off some D for some O...you might gain more in the trade.

Look, guys who are offensive players and weak D players, are not the antichrist, they have their role to play in the grand scheme of things, and treating true offensive players and shooters like leppers is what has lead us to disappointing playoffs and given us a reputation for choking in the post season.

You need em, they have their role to play, the league allows teams to play zone D to protect weak D players...so why not make use of that rule to benefit our team and get some o out of these guys.


This loss goes on Pop...he waited too long to adjust to the fact that Seattle had our D figured out 100%. And he made dumb substitutions...

I mean who do you blame otherwise?

No one on the team played that badly...you say Barry, fine, but he didn't get us down by 18...the guys who got minutes did not play that badly...so whose fault is it then?

[Marcus Bryant]

Yes, Barry is a worse team defender as well as individual defender than Bowen and The Flying Ginobili.


Look, guys who are offensive players and weak D players, are not the antichrist, they have their role to play in the grand scheme of things, and treating true offensive players and shooters like leppers is why we have a reputation for choking in the post season.

Sure. Problem is, he's not doing his job on the offensive end so it's kinda hard to justify him getting Devin Brown's minutes.

[2centsworth]

We're not saying Barry is atrocious on D because of only this one game. We've had 20 games to see the game can't cover a soul.

[whottt]

Yes, Barry is a worse team defender as well as individual defender than Bowen and The Flying Ginobili.



Sure. Problem is, he's not doing his job on the offensive end so it's kinda hard to justify him getting Devin Brown's minutes.

How do you know he's not doing his job on the offensive end? He shot 50% the other night...oh true...he missed his 1 shot tonight, gave up 4 points to Rashard and got picked on an Allen three...

Burn him in hell.

Goldenboy didn't exactly have a banner night either...

I'm pretty sure Barry could have given up 29 points to Allen and gone 1-7 tonight....and since that seems to be the of idea untouchable defense around these parts...I don't see the problem.

[Marcus Bryant]

um whottt he has struggled offensively this season one lone decent performance is not going to change that.

[whottt]

We're not saying Barry is atrocious on D because of only this one game. We've had 20 games to see the game can't cover a soul.

Bah you guys deserve the LA series you got. And you deserve it to happen again.

Trade Barry or bench Barry and then we won't lose to Seattle again. That'll fix the problem. Because we all know...Barry's been costing us game all season long. I mean just look at all the losses we have in game where he logs heavy minutes...amazing we have won any games considering he singlehandedly gives up 130 points per minute he is in the game.

Brilliant.

[Marcus Bryant]

Um the LA series pretty much began and ended with the Spurs losing the physical battle in the paint.

[whottt]

Um the LA series pretty much began and ended with the Spurs losing the physical battle in the paint.

Yeah, going 0-15 mostly wide open from 3 point range had nothing to do with it.

That's funny...no one else in the NBA seems to share that opinion...including former players and the Spurs themselves. Their top priority this offseason was a shooter...not an interior defender or scorer.

[T Park]

dont confuse Marcus with that Whottt, hell get mad.


I agree to a point Whottt, a Barry Ginobili Bowen lineup shouldve been out there.

IMO youve gotta put Barry in the game and match him up against a player hell matchup up defensively well against.

ALA Steve Kerr,

they would put him on someone that either

A. was too slow to drive to the hole

B. just camped out at the 3 point line.


Put Barry in better situations defensively and Id ont think hell look that bad.

That, and I think more time is needed for guys to get used to the system.

Everyone needs to settle down ont that.

[Marcus Bryant]

LA's perimeter D was quite improved over the 03 series and that had a direct bearing on the quality of looks the Spurs were getting from beyond the arc and it was also the result of having a real power forward instead of the Fresh Prince's cameo.

[Marcus Bryant]

This message is hidden because T Park is on your ignore list.

How sweet it is. It's like I traded the poor bastard back to that other forum for a handle to be named later.

[T Park]

Another intelligent post by Mr Knowitall,

bring a take other than your childish Ignore shit or shut the fuck up.

[Duff McCartney]

Let's all trash Barry!

Don't mind if I do......

[whottt]

LA's perimeter D was quite improved over the 03 series and that had a direct bearing on the quality of looks the Spurs were getting from beyond the arc and it was also the result of having a real power forward instead of the Fresh Prince's cameo.

Don't try and give me that horseshit Marcus, I got the entire fucking series on my computer I can sit here and watch Bowen and Hedo brick wide open shot after wide open shot...when Parker and Duncan weren't TOing it from the double teams...What you say is tough interior D I say is LA collapsing on anyone in the paint off of Bowen or Hedo's man...the only guy who was hitting his open shots was Devin...and Horry was not being left open...I can sit here and watch it...I don't have any agenda to diss Hedo and continue doing it after he is gone...And I can also go and find quotes from Phillip saying they didn't leave Horry open if you doubt this.

I hate guys that can't fucking hit open shots in case you haven't noticed...I don't say they can't do it because I don't like them...I don't like them because they can't do it. Hedo couldn't...and Bowen couldn't either last season.

[Marcus Bryant]

This message is hidden because T Park is on your ignore list.

Oh damn. I wonder if he's getting a little hot under the collar. Maybe he'll holla?

[Manu20]

I like Barry he is just in a shooting slump.

[Aud21946]

Whoa Nelly .... Lay off Berry....25% into the season and we are ready to can him ...... I see where this is going ... lets go back to the days of 84 to 74 point games in which we win and call it a night. ANd it's not give it to Timmy P and Watch ... it give it to The Big Fundemental and watch offense which has only happened in 4 ... count it 4 losses this season.

[Marcus Bryant]

The fact that a player simply gets a shot off does not mean that he had an open look or even a quality look. The Spurs had much better looks in the 03 series and that was a direct result of LA not being able to control the paint which of course gets back to that Laker power forward position which Malone took care of in that series unlike in 2003 when the Lakers had the weakest frontcourt of the 4 series from the 2001-2004 postseasons whereas the Spurs had their best frontcourt rotation in 2003 with TD/DRob/Rose/Willis. What did the Spurs go with in 2004? TD/Radosoft/Horry while the Lakers had Shaq and Malone controlling the paint and freeing up the LA perimeter players to close out on the Spurs' shooters. Don't wasttte my tttime.

[T Park]

Hedo wasnt open all those times then.

Damn Whottt, we were watching a different series.

[Marcus Bryant]

!@#$ it.

The !#$@ing Spurs went with safe predictable yet postseason unproven Brent Barry instead of Jack this past summer. As much shit as people ran about Hedo at least he held out until hitting the skids in the 2nd round of the playoffs, not the 2nd week of November. Also at least Hedo managed to figure out how to play team defense and hey his height wasn't a bad thing and while he couldnt pull off the occassional nifty pass at least he could handle the damn rock enough to start the break off the rebound which is really the primary thing you need anyways.

!@#$ northside.

[IcemanCometh]

admittedly jackson hit the skids a little earlier than barry this year, and a bit more spectacularly.

[Marcus Bryant]

Point taken.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Pop doesn't owe anyone anything. Kerr earned every minute.

LOL, if it weren't for Tim going to Pop and saying "hey dumbass, give me some help from the three point line, I hear that guy Kerr is pretty good" we woulda lost.


admittedly jackson hit the skids a little earlier than barry this year, and a bit more spectacularly.

Leave it to Ice to be the voice of reason in this thread.

:shootme

[T Park]

is what Jackson did what youd call a "flame out"??

IMO, he wouldnt have pulled something like that around intelligent nonwhacko people like the Spurs.

But saying we should have Jack this over barry BS, is just pointless.

Hes gone, hes not coming back, stop living in the past, lets better utilize what we have.

Starting with maybe letting Barry run the point if Beno is struggling,

See Detroit, Seattle.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

It's not a Jack over Barry thing.

It's a Jack over Barry and Manu thing. No thanks.

[T Park]

Dont worry Aggie, Me and you agree 1000% on that.

Im happy with the offseason dont get me wrong.

If we couldve gotten Jakc and kept Ginobili in that Utopian world, it wouldve been great.

Financially it wasnt happening no matter how much Peter Holt squeeks.

He did piss me off in the fact, he told me he was coming back that night he was in Houston the lying fuck face.

[milkyway21]

Good , let Barry rot on the bench then...that way I don't hear stupid mother fuckers scapegoating the wrong guy for the loss.

You want to hang this loss on someone hang it on the head coach.I think I can agree with what you said. Why are they blaming Barry for the loss? He hasn't given enough time to play. He was on the bench. Actually, I was praying in the 3rd qtr Pops would let Barry into the game, but he didn't. And Rasho, he could have helped Duncan for the rebounds(we are outrebounded by the Sonics, huh), instead he was there sitting. Give Barry the break, PLEASE! :depressed

[Dalamar_the_Dark]

Hey all you Barry slammers out there hear this. Shove all your comments up your ass.

You know why we lost? You know why we are one of the worst teams when it comes to defending the 3?

Cause our defense isnt up to scratch yet. If any of you out there has played ball, you should know that a suffocating perimeter defense is not easy to perfect. You think just because we have Bowen means that they wont be able to jack 3s? Bullshit. Sonics burned our ass cause they just rotate and rotate till the defense gives up something. Its not just Barry its the whole team. Parker, Manu, Devin, Beno, Bowen, all of them have not gelled as a unit yet. Give them time. Arent we the team that starts slow? If you went and checked up on why we lost in previous games or gave up leads and stuff you will see that its always against teams that shoot the ball well and rely on a lot of perimeter stuff. Rotate rotate and you will get an open man. Sooner or later Seattle's game is going to get caught out by the better defensive teams once they get their rotations correct. Then the sonics will still be in with a shot of making the playoffs but not progress very far.

Give the spurs a break! Pop will get them ready.

Even the Suns will have problems later on cause they are just playing street ball now. Few schemes and stuff. Just rotate and rotate till the opponents defense gives something. and theyve got a very very very atheletic team. But as the season goes by, teams like Detroit, Minny and of course Spurs will show that you cant play street ball or keeping jacking 3s to progress in the playoffs. You gotta have schemes to break down the opponents defence.

Go ahead flame me as you see fit.

[T Park]

Rasho didnt earn his minutes out there tonight.

He was a bump on a log and Rose was playing wonderfull.

Dont fault pop for that.

Not playing Barry at the point in the 4th??

yeah bust Pop's chops on that I agree.

[Marcus Bryant]

It's not a Jack over Barry thing.

It's a Jack over Barry and Manu thing. No thanks.

Actually, it was a Jack over Barry thing.

[Dalamar_the_Dark]

Its just no point playing Rasho tonight. We would have been burned even more.

With Seattle's offense we needed people to play perimeter defense. You try asking Rasho to do that and we will get burned. Timmy was enough to get the rebounds. And its not as if we rebounded badly but Seattle just shot well.

Our defensive unit on the perimeter needs to start clicking. The defensive rotations need to get in place.

I think Pop was worried that if he put Barry in Seattle will just keep creating the miss match on Barry and burn him. Once Barry gets used to the schemes he will prosper. I dont think that its Barry's contract thats causing him to lose his shooting touch. Its that he trying too hard to get the defensive schemes right. So much so that it causes him to lose his offensive rhythm. Trying too hard to fit into a new system can cause you to lose your offensive rhythm.