Tony Parker is digressing... [Archive]

adidas11

12-08-2004, 11:40 PM

Now, let me start of this thread by saying that I think TP is a very good point guard. He's extremely quick, has great point guard instincts, and has been well coached over his basketball career (this was evident to me the first game that I ever saw him play for the Spurs, in his rookie season).

But on the other side of the coin, he is regressing. Each season, after his second season, he has statistically dropped off in practically every category. Lower shooting percentage, lower assists, lower free throw percentage, higher turnovers, lower points per game, etc.

Now, some of the homers have been preaching to us that Tony Parker is a superstar in the making. I have always maintained that at best, he is borderline all star talent. And at the rate he is going at this season, TP will not make the all star team again this year.

Now, this really has nothing to do with the Spurs fortunes this season, as I see them having a very strong chance to win the title, whether TP plays well or not.

I'm just hoping that we all take off the rose colored glasses, and see TP for what he is right now, which is a slightly above average NBA point guard.

2centsworth

12-08-2004, 11:44 PM

I'm not a TP homer, but his game is getting better. He's attacking the basket and scoring again which he wasn't doing early on. That alone makes us much better. He must improve on his jumper and defense. The deal is when TP is at his best, we are unbeatable, as evidence by our record when TP scores 20 or more points.

SequSpur

12-08-2004, 11:44 PM

16 and 4.

STFU.

2centsworth

12-08-2004, 11:45 PM

16 and 4.

4 is not good for a high caliber pt guard, take off the blinders.

SequSpur

12-08-2004, 11:47 PM

lol...

16 Wins.

Marcus Bryant

12-08-2004, 11:48 PM

How exactly is Parker supposed to rack up huge assist totals when the Spurs are running a motion O? If you want to judge his performance at point then at least contemplate that.

ducks

12-08-2004, 11:48 PM

dude tp is the best point guard spurs could have gotten at the 28 draft pick

you would love tp to be a laker especially this year

to is starting slower then I would have liked. however he was pressing on his new contract

he has played well during this stress
he has not been able to play 39 minutes a game due to spurs blowing them out of the water.

if tp was a rocket this year instead of ward rockets would be great

2centsworth

12-08-2004, 11:49 PM

Wins and losses this early don't mean much. it's the chemistry and execution that we should focus on.

Manu20

12-08-2004, 11:49 PM

4 is not good for a high caliber pt guard, take off the blinders.

Parker had 16 and 4 but I think he is talking about the spurs record.

IceColdBrewski

12-08-2004, 11:50 PM

At this point, I'm not sure Parker will ever be able to sink an open jump shot consistently. That was the one area that he supposedly worked on all offseason and I see no difference from last year. If Beno becomes a consistent scorer, Tony needs to be traded fast.

Marcus Bryant

12-08-2004, 11:52 PM

boutons

12-08-2004, 11:54 PM

16 - 4 is TP's PTS and AST vs SEA

TP shot 38%

MG shot 28%

Spurs can't score enough, and they couldn't stop SEA, who got 54 pts on 3's and FTs.

The Spurs blew the entire game in the first half, joke defense, which is fucking mysterious.

2centsworth

12-08-2004, 11:54 PM

If Beno becomes a consistent scorer, Tony needs to be traded fast.

Hell no, Beno is way too slow and weak at this point. REPEAT: when Tony is at his best we are unbeatable! We will need Tony at his best to beat the likes of Minnesota and Detroit. Beno at his best can get us as far as maybe beating the Lakers.

IceColdBrewski

12-08-2004, 11:56 PM

Great. Trade Tony in this thread and trade Malik in the other.

Another thing some of the Parker critics seem to miss is that Parker still is all of 22 years old. Before you write the epitaph for his career today you would be wise to recognize that.

He's 22 years old but he has had enough time (here and Europe) to learn how to shoot.

EARTH TO MARCUS. He worked on his shot all offseason and it didn't get any better! Doensn't that have you worried at this point?

SequSpur

12-08-2004, 11:57 PM

The only problem with his game is his shooting. Agreed.

ducks

12-08-2004, 11:57 PM

ice how many threes did aj make?

how great of a shooter was aj?

2centsworth

12-08-2004, 11:57 PM

Age is no excuse. Plenty of young guys, even younger than tony do just fine. Others never reach their full potential, the jury is still out on Tony.

IceColdBrewski

12-08-2004, 11:58 PM

Hell no, Beno is way too slow and weak at this point. REPEAT: when Tony is at his best we are unbeatable! We will need Tony at his best to beat the likes of Minnesota and Detroit. Beno at his best can get us as far as maybe beating the Lakers.

Beno will get stronger and quicker.

Marcus Bryant

12-08-2004, 11:59 PM

He's 22 years old but he has had enough time (here and Europe) to learn how to shoot.

EARTH TO MARCUS. He worked on his shot all offseason and it didn't get any better! Doensn't that have you worried at this point?

I've learned not to be worried about the Spurs in early December. This isn't football with the season coming to a close next month.

IceColdBrewski

12-09-2004, 12:02 AM

I've learned not to be worried about the Spurs in early December. This isn't football with the season coming to a close next month.

I'm not saying you should be worried about the Spurs. Just Tony's shooting.

Marcus Bryant

12-09-2004, 12:03 AM

The interesting thing is that Beno hasn't exactly shown much that would convince any reasonable observer that he could run this team better than Parker.

IceColdBrewski

12-09-2004, 12:07 AM

The interesting thing is that Beno hasn't exactly shown much that would convince any reasonable observer that he could run this team better than Parker.

Not right now he couldn't. But give him the same time you've given Parker and I'd bet he could with the talent he has shown.

T Park

12-09-2004, 12:50 AM

Brewski,

are you drinking ice cold ones.

Trade a 22 year old point guard who is considered top 5 in the league?

"hes had enough time"

Whew a whole 4 years, damn hes practically done with his career.

Unreal, trade Tony Freakin Parker.

Marcus Bryant

12-09-2004, 12:59 AM

Actually, Beno has shown that he can hit some shots, make some spectacular finishes, and drop the occassional flashy dime.

IcemanCometh

12-09-2004, 01:25 AM

what the fuck is digressing

Aggie Hoopsfan

12-09-2004, 01:34 AM

4 is not good for a high caliber pt guard, take off the blinders.

Gimme a break.

The Spurs offense is not structured to give the PG high assist totals. We could have Magic on this team and he still wouldn't get assists for dumping it into Duncan

Age is no excuse. Plenty of young guys, even younger than tony do just fine. Others never reach their full potential, the jury is still out on Tony.

Age is a good excuse. You're talking about a boy playing a man's game, basically. The only young gun to really come into this league and dominate in the backcourt right away has been Lebron, and he's a freak athletically. NBA perimeter players are bigger and stronger than what any guard plays against in HS and college, and especially Europe.

You need to heed your own advice. Earlier you said that Tony isn't a high caliber PG, and now you're saying the jury's still out. I definitely agree with you the latter, and you need to listen to yourself on the former.

Drachen

12-09-2004, 02:31 AM

Tony Parker is digressing?? So he is turning aside from the main subject of conversation??

Tek_XX

12-09-2004, 02:39 AM

Tony is fine, and is definitly one of the best point guards in the league. Beno needs a lot of work. Offense doesn't run as smooth when he's in there as evident tonight when he came in the Sonics rebuilt their lead. But i think he'll get there.

ggoose25

12-09-2004, 02:42 AM

what the fuck is digressing

di·gress
intr.v. di·gressed, di·gress·ing, di·gress·es
-To turn aside, especially from the main subject in writing or speaking
See Synonyms at swerve.

re·gress
v. re·gressed, re·gress·ing, re·gress·es
1)To go back; move backward.
2)To return to a previous, usually worse or less developed state.

I think adidas demonstrated his stupidity in this post by not recognizing that Parker has improved his D tremendously every year, as well as claiming that he has digressed because he obviously should have chosen the word "regress".

ggoose25

12-09-2004, 02:42 AM

damn, beat me to it Drachen

Tek_XX

12-09-2004, 03:02 AM

No no i think um he meant that. Tony Parker wants to change the subject or something.....that bastard.

Dalamar_the_Dark

12-09-2004, 03:16 AM

ice how many threes did aj make?

how great of a shooter was aj?

AJ was a great open look shooter. Hello!!!!!!!

And for goodness sakes Jordan didnt rock the world during his first few seasons. so give parker some time. this is only his 4th season so give him a break I personally think he has improved a lot. His decision making is getting better. He wont be Magic but who is? You think the Kidd is good? Id rather stick to Parker as he has a lot more upside and is already doing very well in my opinion for a 28th pick.

I like our team right now. Only thing I would change is adding Malone and subtracting Wilks(sorry bro).

Then we will have players for every possibility. If only we can gell the perimeter rotations more quickly.

CosmicCowboy

12-09-2004, 09:50 AM

ge is no excuse. Plenty of young guys, even younger than tony do just fine. Others never reach their full potential, the jury is still out on Tony.

Some of you people are so fucking stupid I am afraid sometimes it might be contagious...

Jason Kidd was Tonys age when he came into the league and averaged 12.8ppg his first three years and got traded...

talking about Tony not being able to improve any at this point is moronic.

FromWayDowntown

12-09-2004, 10:29 AM

Assuming that all of the negative things about Tony are true -- and I dispute most of them -- what on Earth are you going to get for him in a trade? Don't you think that if forum posters find all of those faults with his game, that NBA scouts and front office guys, whose jobs are on the line, are going to see the same issues?

I guess my question is this: do you believe that you can deal Tony and improve your PG situation by doing so? I can't believe that anyone other than the "grass is greener" crowd would actually believe that, and I'm relieved to think that Popovich is rarely (if ever) a grass is greener type of executive and coach.

If you can't come up with a realistic deal by which the Spurs could deal Tony AND improve their PG situation, then you're just bitching . . . . You might consider that your team is 7 games better than last season over its first 20; has a 3 game lead in its division over a team believed in some corners to be a legit contender; and still has gotten only average production out of the point and pedestrian production from its center and 6th man.

T Park

12-09-2004, 10:29 AM

CC,

facts like that do no good on people like them obviously.

Jdspur20

12-09-2004, 10:34 AM

Now, let me start of this thread by saying that I think TP is a very good point guard. He's extremely quick, has great point guard instincts, and has been well coached over his basketball career (this was evident to me the first game that I ever saw him play for the Spurs, in his rookie season).

But on the other side of the coin, he is digressing. Each season, after his second season, he has statistically dropped off in practically every category. Lower shooting percentage, lower assists, lower free throw percentage, higher turnovers, lower points per game, etc.

Now, some of the homers have been preaching to us that Tony Parker is a superstar in the making. I have always maintained that at best, he is borderline all star talent. And at the rate he is going at this season, TP will not make the all star team again this year.

Now, this really has nothing to do with the Spurs fortunes this season, as I see them having a very strong chance to win the title, whether TP plays well or not.

I'm just hoping that we all take off the rose colored glasses, and see TP for what he is right now, which is a slightly above average NBA point guard.

why don't you worry about your own freakin team.

adidas11

12-09-2004, 10:37 AM

Uhh...Jason Kid won the NBA Rookie of the Year his first season, and routinely turned in triple doubles early in his career.

And fine, I'll change digress to regress. My fault.

The point that I'm trying to make is NOT saying that Tony Parker isn't a good point guard.

But what I'm AM trying to say is that looking as his career so far, I see nothing to warrant thinking that he is going to be some future superstar in this league. People keep talking about his age, but I've seen younger players go on to be superstars at an earlier age.

And this has nothing to do with the Spurs record, or how well they're playing. I know the Spurs are 16-4. And they will probably continue to play well throughout the season.

But look at Tony Parker's stats!!!! He has dropped in almost every category since his second season. That's last year, and this year! If he was on his way to become a superstar in this league, then wouldn't the opposite be happening???

The

Marcus Bryant

12-09-2004, 10:40 AM

Might Parker's stats be limited by the type of offense the Spurs switched to since the middle of last season as well as the emergence of Ginobili as the second scoring option?

Yes, his age is quite relevant because of the position he plays. When you consider the fact that he grew up playing ball in Paris that is quite remarkable.

adidas11

12-09-2004, 10:44 AM

So Marcus, do you think Tony Parker is going to be a Top 5 or Top 10 player in this league sometime in the near future?

boutons

12-09-2004, 10:47 AM

WTF does "Paris' have to do with anything? Tony attended a formal national sports institute, a lot different from just "growing up". Tony "tracked" himself out of academics and into sports in his mid-teens, taking a ton of desire and hustle with him. The path and the results are remarkable.

Marcus Bryant

12-09-2004, 10:48 AM

No. I don't recall ever writing that and frankly I don't recall anyone writing that in this forum. Top 5 point guard? Sure.

Marcus Bryant

12-09-2004, 10:48 AM

CosmicCowboy

12-09-2004, 10:51 AM

But look at Tony Parker's stats!!!! He has dropped in almost every category since his second season. That's last year, and this year! If he was on his way to become a superstar in this league, then wouldn't the opposite be happening???

the stat difference is negligible.

FG% is a push, FT% is a push, rebounds are up, assists are a push, steals are up, and scoring average is down by one friggin point on fewer minutes...

Adidas, I normally like your posts but you are just trolling on this one...

FromWayDowntown

12-09-2004, 10:58 AM

But look at Tony Parker's stats!!!! He has dropped in almost every category since his second season. That's last year, and this year! If he was on his way to become a superstar in this league, then wouldn't the opposite be happening???

Yes, because stats tell the ultimate tale of a player's worth . . . . come on adidas, you're better than that.

Look at the Spurs roster in each of the last two seasons: it's been littered with far more scoring diversity than was here in 2001-02 or even 2002-03. Because of the changing nature of the roster, Pop's offensive scheme has morphed from a dump it down, post-up scheme to a drive-and-kick, emphasize ball movement scheme. This year's Spurs are averaging more assists than any team in recent memory, including the championship teams. Parker isn't accumulating more assists, but he's getting the ball to teammates who can make the extra pass and get an even better look. It's not on Parker that his teammates are unselfish.

Plus, in considering Parker's 2004-05 numbers, I think you have to account for the fact that Tony has been substantially better in games 11-20 than he was in games 1-10. In his last 10 games, Parker is shooting .507 from the floor (64-126) and .410 from 3 (7-17). Compare that to his start, in which he shot .370 from the floor (44-119) and .125 from 3 (3-24). Not surprisingly, in his last 10, Parker is scoring at a 15.4 clip, compared to the 11.9 ppg he accrued in the first 10 games. Sure, the overall numbers right now aren't superstar level, but the recent uptick in his play is probably more indicative of his true talent, particularly within the confines of his team.

ducks

12-09-2004, 10:59 AM

I think tp's d has improved alto this year

2centsworth

12-09-2004, 11:25 AM

Some of you people are so fucking stupid I am afraid sometimes it might be contagious...

Jason Kidd was Tonys age when he came into the league and averaged 12.8ppg his first three years and got traded...

talking about Tony not being able to improve any at this point is moronic.

Pretty ballsy for someone who doesn't comprehend a post, or maybe to be expected, the jury is still out.

samikeyp

12-09-2004, 11:48 AM

IMO, its not neccessarily a regression, but a slow start. Spurs fans see the potential Parker has and the flashes of brilliance he has shown. We, as fans , tend to get impatient. The kid is only 22 and just signed a huge contract. I still think the jury is out and we may not see him fully blossom for awhile, maybe not even this season. Popovich is no dummy, he knows talent and has faith in Parker. The one thing Pop has shown is that no matter what you make, if you can't help the team, you will not play. The good news is that the Spurs are 16-4 so the team is playing well. As Parker gets better, so do the Spurs.