Falcons' Vick indicted by grand jury

[FromWayDowntown]

FromWayDowntown: I agree with you that there obviously is a difference between choosing to do something dangerous and being forced to do something dangerous. What I'm trying to say here is that I just find it a bit hypocritical for people to condemn one combat sport but cheer for another, and I am not calling you a hypocrite since you expressed your general disintrest in those sports. Also, if the dogs were not to be killed, and it seems to me that is what people are the most angry about, then would it be okay if they just fought each other?

I still think that most people would have the same reaction to the barbarism of dog fighting, even if the dogs weren't condemned when their fighting careers ended. Dogs are sentient beings that experience pain -- and dog fighting brings with it great pain to those who actually participate in the fight itself.

Again, to me the line that makes dog fighting so repugnant to people of conscience (and what saves those who disdain dog fighting but revel in boxing non-hypocrites) is the issue of self-determination. Until a dog has a choice in the matter, the "sport" is built entirely on a culture of abuse, a complete disregard for the value of the lives of sentient creatures, and an exploitation of animals whose nature is to do as they're told.

[TLWisfoine]

FromWayDowntown: I absolutely agree with you that dogfighting is much more heinous than boxing or ultimate fighting. But just because one combat sport may be less heinous than the other, does that make it okay to support it, yet condemn the other?

[Obstructed_View]

FromWayDowntown: I absolutely agree with you that dogfighting is much more heinous than boxing or ultimate fighting. But just because one combat sport may be less heinous than the other, does that make it okay to support it, yet condemn the other?
One is legal, the other isn't.

Please stop being so fucking stupid.

[TLWisfoine]

^^^ Both are extremely violent and brutal, yet we cheer for one and condemn the other. I see that as hypocracy!!! Now go die of AIDS!!!

[Obstructed_View]

^^^ Both are extremely violent and brutal, yet we cheer for one and condemn the other. I see that as hypocracy!!! Now go die of AIDS!!!
One is a legal sport played by willing participants by a set of rules and are aware of the risks. The other is an illegal activity where animals are forced to take part and thousands are killed every year. You are the dumbest douchebag on the planet that has access to a computer.

And just so you know, crying about the brutality of boxing while wishing someone to die of a disease because he made you look stupid is "hypocracy".

[TLWisfoine]

^^^ Are you trying to say that boxing and Ultimate fighting aren't brutal sports just because it is legal with willing participants? Whether or not the particapants are willing to go into the ring and fight each other, people cheer for them to beat the living hell out of the other guy until one of them gets knocked out and can't get up. The bloodier the better and you find that to be okay and not dogfighting. I understand that one is much worse than the other, but does that make the lesser of the two okay? That's like justifying shooting someone in the leg and rationalizing it by saying atleast you didn't kill them!!!

Oh, and just for the record I really could give a shit about those boxer dudes, I'm just pointing out the hypocracy. Damn, that sounds insensitive, but I guess I'm just a product of the violent American culture. So go and ride Magic Johnson's HIV riddled dick, prick.

[FromWayDowntown]

^^^ Are you trying to say that boxing and Ultimate fighting aren't brutal sports just because it is legal with willing participants? Whether or not the particapants are willing to go into the ring and fight each other, people cheer for them to beat the living hell out of the other guy until one of them gets knocked out and can't get up. The bloodier the better and you find that to be okay and not dogfighting. I understand that one is much worse than the other, but does that make the lesser of the two okay? That's like justifying shooting someone in the leg and rationalizing it by saying atleast you didn't kill them!!!

Your analogy is inapt. Believing that boxing is okay isn't "like justifying shooting someone in the leg and rationalizing it by saying at least you didn't kill them!!!!" Believing that boxing is okay is more like justifying someone having been shot based on an understanding that he agreed to be shot and rationalizing it by saying at least he wasn't killed. The actor in the latter case might be viewed as stupid by some, but he at least consented to the injuries that were visited upon him based on the conduct to which he consented.

I'm not entirely sure that I understand the point that you're trying to make by continuing to relate boxing and dogfighting. That Americans have a bloodlust? If so, what difference does that make to the discussion at hand? Is your argument that boxing should be outlawed? Is your argument that dogfighting should be legalized? That dogfighting shouldn't be seen as such a bad thing? I can't understand, again, how voluntary participation by humans in one activity could conceivably justify the sort of abject cruelty that dogfighting entails.

I'm done with this discussion with you until you can actually tell me what your point is.

[Obstructed_View]

^^^ Are you trying to say that boxing and Ultimate fighting aren't brutal sports just because it is legal with willing participants?
No. I'm saying that you are the dumbest fucking douchebag on the face of the planet for comparing any legal human sport with dogfighting.


Whether or not the particapants are willing to go into the ring and fight each other, people cheer for them to beat the living hell out of the other guy until one of them gets knocked out and can't get up. The bloodier the better and you find that to be okay and not dogfighting.
Again, you are trying to justify an illegal activity by comparing it to a sport because both are violent, despite their being violent in staggeringly different degrees. I find your stupidity to be fascinating. I wonder how you are capable of functioning.


That's like justifying shooting someone in the leg and rationalizing it by saying atleast you didn't kill them!!!You are justifying rape by saying that women like sex. Did I mention how fucking stupid you are?


Oh, and just for the record I really could give a shit about those boxer dudes, I'm just pointing out the hypocracy. Damn, that sounds insensitive, but I guess I'm just a product of the violent American culture. So go and ride Magic Johnson's HIV riddled dick, prick.
Now that you've gotten your ass handed to you, it's convenient that you would claim not to care about your argument. Frankly, it's so Goddamn dumb that I don't blame even a mouth breather like you for abandoning it so quickly. You are more likely a product of pre-natal drug use or incest. Someone should throw you into a dog ring while you cry about Darfur.

[TLWisfoine]

FromWayDowntown: The point I'm making is that I just don't understand how people can condemn one violent sport and cheer for the other. It is like they care more about animals than they do about their fellow man. So do Americans have a bloodlust, maybe, at the very least they have been descensitized against violent acts on human beings. Also yes I understand about the whole one is voluntary the other isn't, but does that make it okay for people to cheer them on while they are beating the hell out of each other? Also, I find dogfighting to be sick, but I don't see how cheering on your fellow man to beat one another to a bloody pulp is seen as okay. It's like they care more about animals than humans!!!

Hopefully I was able to get my point across!!!

[Obstructed_View]

FromWayDowntown: The point I'm making is that I just don't understand how people can condemn one violent sport and cheer for the other.
Dogfighting. Is. Not. A. Sport. You should go join NAMBLA and help them try to argue that pedophilia is a sexual orientation that should be valued.

[FromWayDowntown]

FromWayDowntown: The point I'm making is that I just don't understand how people can condemn one violent sport and cheer for the other. It is like they care more about animals than they do about their fellow man. So do Americans have a bloodlust, maybe, at the very least they have been descensitized against violent acts on human beings. Also yes I understand about the whole one is voluntary the other isn't, but does that make it okay for people to cheer them on while they are beating the hell out of each other? Also, I find dogfighting to be sick, but I don't see how cheering on your fellow man to beat one another to a bloody pulp is seen as okay. It's like they care more about animals than humans!!!

Hopefully I was able to get my point across!!!

Football is, in many ways, more brutal than even boxing. I don't see you contending that Americans' love of football is somehow hypocritical in the face of the condemnation of dogfighting.

I guess, ulimately, I don't get your point here and will never agree with you in terms of principles on this issue. If people choose to engage in boxing matches because, in so doing, they will be compensated through the receipts of money from those who enjoy watching them beat the crap out of each other, that's their prerogative. The dogs who are made to fight have no such choice and receive no such benefits -- for them, it's purely a diminishing return and one that is based on the decisions of others.

It's simplistic, but I do think that the fundamental difference is the legality of one and the illegality of the other. Boxing is legal, I think, because the mortality rate directly attributable to boxing matches is miniscule and that possiblity is a known contingency for those who choose to engage in the sport. I don't pretend to understand why so many bystanders are fascinated by watching two men voluntarily beat the crap out of each other, but I think there are things other than bloodlust that can explain that. But as brutal as boxing can be, it's nowhere remotely as brutal and cruel as dogfighting.

Boxers rarely are killed in the ring and, in most cases, are able to continue to lead worthwhile lives when they stop boxing; the dogs, of course, are frequently killed in the pit (from what I understand) and never lead worthwhile lives after their "careers" end.

[BeerIsGood!]

Apparently the prosecution in the case does have a plea on the table for Vick, if ESPN is to be believed. That makes me wonder about what kind of evidence they have and the strength of the witnesses against him. Unless they just want to avoid a trial and get this thing over with quickly, I see no reason for Vick to be offered a plea unless the evidence combined is shaky at best.

If that's the case, it presents a an interesting decision for Vick. Take a chance that the evidence is weak and you can beat it, or plead out now while there's only one count with a max of 5 yrs on the table? Apparently the judge is known for giving out max or near max sentences, so it would appear the possibility of Vick getting at least 3.5 to 4 years if he pleads may be pretty good.

[Obstructed_View]

There could be an offer on the table because the case is simply so overwhelming that only a moron would go to trial and they expect Vick to take a plea just like all his co-defendants.

[FromWayDowntown]

Apparently the prosecution in the case does have a plea on the table for Vick, if ESPN is to be believed. That makes me wonder about what kind of evidence they have and the strength of the witnesses against him. Unless they just want to avoid a trial and get this thing over with quickly, I see no reason for Vick to be offered a plea unless the evidence combined is shaky at best.

If that's the case, it presents a an interesting decision for Vick. Take a chance that the evidence is weak and you can beat it, or plead out now while there's only one count with a max of 5 yrs on the table? Apparently the judge is known for giving out max or near max sentences, so it would appear the possibility of Vick getting at least 3.5 to 4 years if he pleads may be pretty good.

It makes sense to me that the government would be inclined to enter into a plea deal that results in a conviction even if its evidence was very strong. The government would rather have a guarantee that a bad guy will be put away than take a chance that the defendant will somehow beat the rap. In the case of someone like Vick, who's going to be prosecuted in a jurisdiction in which he's likely well-regarded, the possiblity that a jury might nullify the evidence in favor of a celebrity/star is significant. I can see why the government might be willing to enter into a plea that saves Vick from facing every charge that might be levied against him but still satisfies the government's need to secure a conviction and put him to some punishment.

[BeerIsGood!]

Normally I'd agree with the celebrity status swaying the jury, but this dog fighting thing has the media treating him like a combination of Manson and Berkowitz. The guy's been villified constantly and I'd think that would work in the government's favor. That said, I see your point. It's obvious they don't have the hard on to get Vick that they would have had he kidnapped a federal judge's daughter's dog and strangled it.

[DarkReign]

Dogfighting. Is. Not. A. Sport. You should go join NAMBLA and help them try to argue that pedophilia is a sexual orientation that should be valued.

Excellent analogy. Youre substituting your subject based on nothing more than whim. Because something is violent but accepted, does not make something else violent and accepted.

OV pointed out NAMBLA, which is rich. Your example, using his subject matter, would be...

"So sexual relations with a minor is a horrible atrocity in a society that accepts homosexualism?! HYPOCRISY!"

Try to understand that.

[K-State Spur]

that just made me want to throw up. I despise Michael Vick and all those like him. yeah, yeah. Not guilty til proven and all that. But we all know he did it. And we all know he'll get off too.

I've lived in communities in Western Illinois and Southeast Kansas where it was highly recommended that the citizens NOT leave their dogs out unattended (even in a fenced yard) because kidnappings for sparring partners were a too common occurrence.

[peewee's lovechild]

Dark Reign: Firstly, I would start a topic about Darfur but it wouldn't get any responses since nobody seems to care about suffering black people.



Damn, you're pretty stupid.
The reason I'll be voting straight ticket Democrat is because Bush and the Repubs aren't doing a damn thing about Darfur.

For you to generalize and say that "nobody seems to care about suffering black people is just plain ignorant." You really are quite ignorant.

Did you know that the actress Mia Farrow has been busy trying to pressure Republicans (and Democrats, to be fair) to commit to the Darfur situation?? Does your hate for anything non-black really blind you this much?? If Darfur is so important to the African American community, why hasn't there been a louder protest about it from said community??

Why??

I'm starting to think you're just a kid whose being mentored by his biggoted older uncle and is just repeating things he says.





Secondly, how the hell was I contradicting myself?



You're not contradicting yourself, you're reaching for straws and it's prett pathetic. What other excuse are you going to use to defend Vick . . . we don't care about the civil rights problems in China?? We're ignoring the plight of the Untouchables in India?? We don't care about Global Warming's effects on the Eskimo population??

Come on, man!!!
You sound desperate and pathetic.

[K-State Spur]

Unless they just want to avoid a trial and get this thing over with quickly, I see no reason for Vick to be offered a plea unless the evidence combined is shaky at best.

Poor logic. There's a plea available to most everybody with every crime (even murder). Sometimes they aren't much of a deal, but that doesn't mean that they aren't out there.

Plea bargains save the prosecution money + time (which is probably more important given their case loads), and in addition to that, they offer a sure thing, which you can never count on in a court of law (especially with a celebrity defendant).

[K-State Spur]

.The point I'm making is that I just don't understand how people can condemn one violent sport and cheer for the other..

Because there are many factors beyond simple violence involved.

That's like saying that a person can't be pro-NASA and anti-Nuclear (or Nucelar as some might pronounce it...) weapons because they both involve rockets.

You're simplifying it well past the point of absurdity.

[BeerIsGood!]

Poor logic. There's a plea available to most everybody with every crime (even murder). Sometimes they aren't much of a deal, but that doesn't mean that they aren't out there.

Plea bargains save the prosecution money + time (which is probably more important given their case loads), and in addition to that, they offer a sure thing, which you can never count on in a court of law (especially with a celebrity defendant).

That's the problem with the system. Instead of punishing these people in a deserving manner the gov. accepts lesser punishments. Reason? The system takes toooooooo fucking long to decide anything. Extremely inefficient.

[K-State Spur]

That's the problem with the system. Instead of punishing these people in a deserving manner the gov. accepts lesser punishments. Reason? The system takes toooooooo fucking long to decide anything. Extremely inefficient.

You don't have to be around law enforcement or the courts much to see that DAs are about convictions - not justice.

[DarkReign]

That's the problem with the system. Instead of punishing these people in a deserving manner the gov. accepts lesser punishments. Reason? The system takes toooooooo fucking long to decide anything. Extremely inefficient.

Inefficent, yes. But at least they feign their intent to preserve the rights of the accused in a court of law.

[BeerIsGood!]

Eh, many problems but nothing's perfect. I'm not turning this into the political forum.

[K-State Spur]

Agreed, it's the nature of the beast. Our legal system is the worst there is, except for all the others...

[kskonn]

To me it sounds like the evidence is overwhelmingly against vick. The last I saw on a number of sights is that his lawyers were reccomending that he take a plea bargain. They were trying to negotiate the plea down to 1 year or less in jail. As they said they would bring more charges against vick based on the testimony of the co defendants who already took a plea bargain. They also said that several teammates could be called to testify against vick if it went to trial.

The only other reason I think they have not takent the plea yet is because of Goodell. They wanted to know what vicks punishment would be in the NFL if he took the plea bargain ultimately admitting guilt to the charges. Specifically the charge brought for Ileggal Gambling, that is a lifetime ban according to the NFL Players conduct book. Goodell is not talking or negotiating, he said he will bring punishment when the case is concluded, I admire that.

I also read an article that had an interesting take on vicks punishment, it stated that a good punishment would be spending the day working at an animal shelter, cleaning cages, taking care of dogs, etc... and spending nights in jail. It spoke of a story about a Pit Bull that was kidnapped usen in dog fighting and was recovered still alive with a knife stuck into its head, 2 inches into it sinus cavities. They operated and the dog is doing better and is happiest when receiving positive human attention. I watched the HBO special but had to turn it off, couldn't take the cruelty.

Short is Vick is done. He will most likely take the plea and no longer have a career. Thousands of fans in Atlanta have sent their jerseys to the Atlanta Humane society with donations attached. The new clean jerseys are being used as pillows and the older jerseys are being used to clean the cages. Those are the people that will make up the Jury of his peers. He is done.

[Obstructed_View]

I heard rumblings about filing RICO charges against him. Since those are tough cases to prosecute, that's yet another sign they have a shitload of evidence.

[BeerIsGood!]

If Vick doesn't take the plea now when it's only one count that carries a max of 5 years, and do his 4 to 5 years then he's crazy. I don't see any way he gets out of this without doing time, and if he waits it could get much worse. I'm sure he'll plea right before the next grand jury hearing.

[kskonn]

If Vick doesn't take the plea now when it's only one count that carries a max of 5 years, and do his 4 to 5 years then he's crazy. I don't see any way he gets out of this without doing time, and if he waits it could get much worse. I'm sure he'll plea right before the next grand jury hearing.


He has until today to accept or the will file a superceding indictment and the Plea bargain will be off the tabel. It appears to be a now or never type thing. If he accepts now it is plea deal based on the current charges, if he accepts a later deal the terms will be based on multiple charges. If in his mind he knows he is guilty then he should just take the deal, because it sounds like they have all the evidence they need. Not to mention Federal prosecuters tend to be much more generous in the beginning of a case and get much tighter as the case goes on.

Also you don't spend 10 hours with your lawyers in one day if you are not seriously considering the plea. As I said the lawyers were reportedly trying to get the jail time to 1 year or less, my guess is that the plea includes around 2-3 years of jail time and a sizable fine. Not to mention that his NFL career would probably be over, he will never have another endorsment deal in his life, he would even be lucky to get a job in Canada or Europe with this black mark following him throughout anything he does going forward.

[2centsworth]

Vick needs to do 2 years in the pen and undergo counseling. The dude is screwed up in the head.

[SpursDynasty]

Aren't there more important things to talk about these days other than Michael Vick, T.O., and Paris Hilton?

[TxJudsonRocketTx]

I hope Vick gets shot in his fucking head after reading shit (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=AglLxSxEDA_DjnP4RfM.3Uo5nYcB?slug=ap-vickco-defendants&prov=ap&type=lgns)

RICHMOND, Va. (AP) -- Two of Michael Vick's alleged cohorts in a grisly dogfighting case pleaded guilty Friday, and one said the Atlanta Falcons quarterback joined them in drowning and hanging dogs that underperformed.

With his NFL career in jeopardy and a superseding indictment in the works to add more charges, Vick and his lawyers have been talking with federal prosecutors about a possible plea agreement.

Now that all three co-defendants have entered plea bargains, Vick is on his own to cut a deal or face trial on federal charges.

The court docket did not list any appearance for Vick. One of his lawyers, Lawrence Woodward, attended Friday's hearings and declined to answer questions as he left the courthouse.

Purnell Peace, 35, of Virginia Beach and Quanis Phillips, 28, of Atlanta entered plea agreements and joined defendant Tony Taylor of Hampton, who struck a similar deal last month. The agreements require the three to cooperate in the government's case against Vick.

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Sentencing is scheduled for Peace and Phillips on Nov. 30 and Taylor on Dec. 14. Vick has been barred from training camp by the NFL and is to go on trial Nov. 26.

A statement signed by Phillips as part of his plea agreement said Vick participated in the execution of about eight dogs, some by drowning and hanging.

"Phillips agrees and stipulates that these dogs all died as a result of the collective efforts of Peace, Phillips and Vick," the statement said.

Phillips and Peace also backed Taylor's assertion that Vick was involved in gambling.

"The 'Bad Newz Kennels' operation and gambling monies were almost exclusively funded by Vick," statements by the two men say.

Peace and Phillips were charged with conspiracy to travel in interstate commerce in aid of unlawful activities and conspiring to sponsor a dog in an animal fighting venture.

"Did you conspire with these folks to sponsor a dogfighting venture?" U.S. District Judge Henry Hudson asked Peace.

He replied, "Yes, sir."

The offenses are punishable by up to five years in prison and a $250,000 fine, but the exact sentence will be based largely on federal sentencing guidelines. Hudson told Peace and Phillips that certain elements of their offenses will increase their sentencing ranges.

Purnell A. Peace, a defendant in the Michael Vick dogfighting case, arrives at Federal court in front of protesters in Richmond, Va., Friday, Aug. 17, 2007. Purnell Peace, 35, of Virginia Beach and Quanis Phillips, 28, of Atlanta entered plea agreements and joined another defendant who previously changed his plea to guilty. The agreements require the three to cooperate in the government's case against Vick.
AP - Aug 17, 12:07 pm EDT
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"There are aggravating circumstances in this case, there's no doubt about it," he told Phillips.

While Peace was freed, Hudson found that Phillips violated terms of his release by failing a drug test and ordered him jailed. Phillips also is on probation for a drug conviction in Atlanta, and the guilty plea could mean more jail time in that case, Hudson said.

Any outcome that ties Vick to betting on the dogfights could trigger a lifetime ban from the NFL under the league's personal conduct policy.

The 27-year-old quarterback was linked to betting by a statement signed by Taylor, who pleaded guilty and agreed to cooperate with the government, and the July 17 indictment.

NFL commissioner Roger Goodell withheld further action while the NFL conducts its own investigation. NFL spokesman Greg Aiello said the league had no comment on the latest pleas.

About 30 animal-rights activists gathered outside the courtroom. Afterward, as police officers cleared the scene, protesters continued waving large pictures of a mutilated dog.

"This is one dogfighting ring that's been annihilated," said John Goodwin, a spokesman for the Humane Society of the United States.

The four defendants all initially pleaded not guilty, and Vick issued a statement saying he looked forward to clearing his name.

A statement of facts signed by Taylor as part of his plea agreement placed Vick at the scene of several dogfights and linked him to betting. Taylor said Vick financed virtually all the "Bad Newz Kennels" operation on Vick's property in Surry County.

The case began with a search in April that turned up dozens of pit bulls and an assortment of dogfighting paraphernalia at the property, a few miles from Vick's hometown of Newport News. According to the indictment, dogs that lost fights or fared poorly in test fights were sometimes executed by hanging, electrocution or other

[Obstructed_View]

None of that shit is any more brutal than throwing two dogs into a pit and letting them tear each other apart.

[T Park]

So has the chicken shit copped a plea yet?

[Marklar MM]

According to local radio, ESPN reports that Vick has accepted some sort of plea.

[monosylab1k]

According to local radio, ESPN reports that Vick has accepted some sort of plea.
just heard it here too.

[monosylab1k]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2983121

[Marklar MM]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2983121



Vick agrees to plead guilty in dogfighting case

ESPN.com news services

Updated: August 20, 2007, 2:36 PM ET

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RICHMOND, Va. -- Atlanta Falcons quarterback Michael Vick accepted a plea deal Monday and likely lengthy prison sentence to avoid additional federal charges in a dogfighting case that has driven his NFL career to a halt.

"After consulting with his family over the weekend, Michael Vick has asked that I announce today that he has reached an agreement with federal prosecutors regarding charges pending against him," Vick attorney Billy Martin said in a statement.

"Mr. Vick has agreed to enter a plea of guilty to those charges and to accept full responsibility for his actions and the mistakes he has made. Michael wishes to apologize again to everyone who has been hurt by this matter.

The terms of Vick's sentence are not yet known.

All three of Vick's co-defendants have reached plea deals in the case. Vick had been facing a Nov. 26 trial date.

Vick's last two co-defendants pleaded guilty Friday and said he bankrolled gambling on dogfights at the quarterback's property in rural Surry County, not far from his hometown of Newport News. One said Vick helped drown or hang dogs that didn't do well.

Quanis Phillips of Atlanta and Purnell Peace of Virginia Beach entered plea agreements and agreed to testify against Vick. Tony Taylor of Hampton struck a similar deal last month.

The gambling allegations alone could trigger a lifetime ban under the NFL's personal conduct policy.

The NFL has barred Vick from the Falcons' training camp but has withheld further action while the league conducts its own investigation.

Peace, Phillips and Taylor pleaded guilty to the same charges facing Vick: conspiracy to travel in interstate commerce in aid of unlawful activities and conspiracy to sponsor a dog in an animal fighting venture.

The offense is punishable by up to five years in prison and a $250,000 fine.

Their sentencings are set for November and December.

Information from The Associated Press was used in this report.
ESPN Conversation

[Fillmoe]

he will get a year in jail and 5 years probation, and a larger fine than 250,000

[Findog]

Somewhere Leonard Little is having himself a good laugh. Pardon me while I gag on a spoon while hearing Roger Goodell talk about decency and accountability.

[K-State Spur]

Leonard Little was previous regime. And just because he got off light, does that mean that everybody should get off light? If anything - Leonard Little serves as a reminder to the commish to come down hard because you can't trust the players' word.

[Findog]

Leonard Little was previous regime. And just because he got off light, does that mean that everybody should get off light? If anything - Leonard Little serves as a reminder to the commish to come down hard because you can't trust the players' word.

No, it just means that there's still double standards and hypocrisy. What is stopping Roger Goodell from punishing Little? Did he even get suspended for what he did? Or does some sort of double jeopardy apply in regards to the collective bargaining agreement?

[K-State Spur]

Goodell is going to deal that which happens during his regime - he's not going to try to go back and "fix" any of Tagliabue's mistakes. I think it's safe to say that if Leonard Little committed vehicular manslaughter today - or even if he just picked up his 3rd DUI given his past - he'd be facing a very heavy hit from the commishioner's office.