Falcons' Vick indicted by grand jury

[Pistons < Spurs]

Michael Vick has been indicted by a federal grand jury in connection with the dogfighting probe of his property in Virginia.

The Falcons quarterback was indicted for conspiracy to travel in interstate commerce in aid of unlawful activities and to sponsor a dog in an animal fighting venture in U.S. District Court for the Eastern District in Richmond, Va. Three others -- Purnell Peace, Quanis Phillips and Tony Taylor -- also were indicted by the grand jury on the same charges.

According to court documents filed by federal authorities earlier this month, dog fights have been sponsored by "Bad Newz Kennels" at the property since at least 2002. For the events, participants and dogs traveled from South Carolina, North Carolina, Maryland, New York, Texas and other states.

Members of the venture also knowingly transported, delivered and received dogs for animal fighting, the documents state.

Fifty-four pit bulls were recovered from the property during searches in April, along with a "rape stand," used to hold dogs in place for mating; an electric treadmill modified for dogs; and a bloodied piece of carpeting, the documents said.

The property was used as the "main staging area for housing and training the pit bulls involved in the dog fighting venture," according to the filings.

The documents said the fights usually occurred late at night or in the early morning and would last several hours. The winning dog would win from "hundreds up to thousands of dollars," and participants and spectators also would place bets on the fight.

Before fights, the participating dogs of the same sex would be weighed and bathed, according to the filings. Opposing dogs would be washed to remove any poison or narcotic placed on the dog's coat that could affect the other dog's performance. Sometimes participants would not feed a dog before the fight to "make it more hungry for the other dog," the documents said.

Fights would end when one dog died or with the surrender of the losing dog, which was sometimes put to death by drowning, strangulation, hanging, gun shot, electrocution or some other method, according to the documents. The property has an above-ground swimming pool, and investigators were seen looking into the pool Friday.

During a June search of the property, investigators uncovered the graves of seven pit bulls that were killed by members of "Bad Newz Kennels" following sessions to test whether dogs would be good fighters, the documents said.

Members of "Bad Newz Kennels" also sponsored and exhibited fights in other parts of Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina, Maryland, New Jersey and other states, the filings said.

On June 7, federal law enforcement officials descended on the property with a search warrant. More than a dozen vehicles went to the home early that day and investigators searched inside before turning their attention to the area where officials found dozens of dogs in late April and evidence that suggested the home was involved in a dogfighting operation.

Surry County officials had secured a search warrant in late May based on an informant's information to look for as many as 30 dog carcasses buried on the property. The warrant never was executed because Commonwealth's Attorney Gerald G. Poindexter said he had issues with the way it was worded.

The results of that search have remained sealed.

At the time, Poindexter expressed surprise at why the federal government was involved.

"What is foreign to me is the federal government getting into a dogfighting case," Poindexter said. "I know it's been done, but what's driving this? Is it this boy's celebrity? Would they have done this if it wasn't Michael Vick?"

A day later, "They launched a separate, independent federal investigation," Poindexter said of the government, which has had a representative involved in the local probe all along.

A search warrant affidavit said some of the dogs were in individual kennels and about 30 were tethered with "heavy logging-type chains" buried in the ground. The chains allowed the dogs to get close to each other, but not to have contact, one of myriad findings on the property that suggested a dogfighting operation.

Vick initially said he had no idea the property might have been used in a criminal enterprise and blamed family members for taking advantage of his generosity. He also put the house up for sale and reportedly sold it quickly, although there is no record that the sale has closed. Vick has since declined to talk about the investigation.


http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2940065

[lotr1trekkie]

God is good!

[kingsfan]

I'm surprised they indicted him but pleased. I wonder what the Falcons are going to do now as they basically built the team around him.

[Vinnie_Johnson]

Vick is fucked and he can only blame him dumb ass.

[mardigan]

He wont get in any trouble

[degenerate_gambler]

He wont get in any trouble


I doubt it too. Cant see anyone ratting him out by placing him on the property at the time(s) of any dogfights.

[Vinnie_Johnson]

They should strap him too the doggie rape rack.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

Wait, so this means Joey Harrington has another starting gig, right?


HAHAHAHAHAHAHA.


If Vick gets anything less than 6 games, Goodell is a bitch.

[Vinnie_Johnson]

Wait, so this means Joey Harrington has another starting gig, right?


HAHAHAHAHAHAHA.


If Vick gets anything less than 6 games, Goodell is a bitch.

LOL I forgot Joey was there. :lol

[JMarkJohns]

SportsCenter just stated that Vick was involved with two others in the brutal killings of upwards of eight dogs by hanging, drowning and body-slamming.

How sick in the head are you to hang a dog?

[mikejones99]

Vick signed for 100 million or more. He has good attorney so he will be free. With money you can kill people or animals.

[peewee's lovechild]

Vick will find that it's hard to play quarterback from a prison cell.

Maybe he can be a black Adam Sandler and start his own prison football team.

[Chickendog]

the falcons can just put in matt schabb oh thats right he is in houston now :spin

[gaKNOW!blee]

the falcons can just put in matt schabb oh thats right he is in houston now :spin
that would be a fine option, if Shaub was any good.

[mardigan]

that would be a fine option, if Shaub was any good.
Cause you have evidence to the contrary

[possessed]

He wont get in any trouble
The conviction rate of people indicted by a Federal Grand Jury is 97%.

I have a hunch Vick won't see an NFL field again.

[samikeyp]

He won't see prison but he should be suspended.

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

Man, if this is how the Madden curse really got Vick, I can only imagine how many people Vince Young is going to murder in his shooting spree.

[scott]

Cause you have evidence to the contrary

What is Schaub's winning % again?

[T Park]

After hearing what his hand his "homies" did to the dogs, this fucker oughtta be slammed to the ground, shocked, and hung.


If Godell doesn't suspend this fucker for a year or more, Im done with the NFL.

[BeerIsGood!]

SportsCenter just stated that Vick was involved with two others in the brutal killings of upwards of eight dogs by hanging, drowning and body-slamming.

How sick in the head are you to hang a dog?

Exactly what I was thinking. I think this comes down to two things - how badly the Fed wants to make an example out of Vick and the fact that 3 of his associates were also indicted. If there is any lack of evidence at this point against Vick I can assure you the Fed is going to be pressing the 3 associates to give him up either for immunity or for reduced time. If the evidence on a whole is there to get 4 indictments, it's probably pretty damning at this point to at least one or two of them. I have no doubts his "hommies" would throw his ass on the grill to save themselves if it comes to that.

I can't believe this son of a bitch did these types of things to those animals. I hope he get's serious pen time if everything is true.

[BeerIsGood!]

After hearing what his hand his "homies" did to the dogs, this fucker oughtta be slammed to the ground, shocked, and hung.


If Godell doesn't suspend this fucker for a year or more, Im done with the NFL.

Wow, at this rate you won't have any sports left to watch. Aren't you done with the Spurs too?

I think the NFL should take action now, because if he's convicted it won't matter what Roger Godell does at that point. The Feds will have their hooks in him.

[T Park]

Wow, at this rate you won't have any sports left to watch

Didn't say I'd stop watching sports.

The Spurs and the NFL would not get my money anymore.

Plenty of baseball, and other things to do.

[johnsmith]

Didn't say I'd stop watching sports.

The Spurs and the NFL would not get my money anymore.

Plenty of baseball, and other things to do.


Eating contests?

[leemajors]

stomach turning:


The indictment said that in April 2007, Peace, Phillips and Vick "executed approximately eight dogs that did not perform well in 'testing' sessions by various methods, including hanging, drowning and/or slamming at least one dog's body to the ground." Vick also is alleged to have consulted with Peace before Peace killed a losing dog by electrocution in 2003.

[gaKNOW!blee]

Cause you have evidence to the contrary
ROFL! YOU have no evidence to the contrary. All the evidence is in my favor.


52% passer, 70 QB rating, 1-1 TD-INT Ratio and 0-2 record. People only like him becuase the back up QB is always the most popular guy in town.

[DarkReign]

I hope he spends a long time in prison. Not on the dogfighting charges, because sad as it is, those arent major offenses in the sense that the accused would serve seriously hard time. But for the interstate travel to commit felonious acts, which is a very substantial charge.

If you were the driver in a high speed chase with the police, thats a state felony.
The moment you cross a state border in said chase, thats a federal felony.

Big fucking difference. Like 10-20 year difference (potentially).

[inconvertible]

Vick signed for 100 million or more. He has good attorney so he will be free. With money you can kill people or animals.


federal indictment=jail time.

ask

martha stewart
kenneth lay
jack skilling
scooter libby

billionaires don't escape a federal indictment......millionaires might as well make a plea agreement now.

[DarkReign]

billionaires don't escape a federal indictment......millionaires might as well make a plea agreement now.

:lmao but true.

[peewee's lovechild]

federal indictment=jail time.

ask

martha stewart
kenneth lay
jack skilling
scooter libby

billionaires don't escape a federal indictment......millionaires might as well make a plea agreement now.

Has Scooter Libby ever seen the inside of a prison cell?

[inconvertible]

Has Scooter Libby ever seen the inside of a prison cell?


Is Micheal Vick a close personal friend of Dick Chaney? :lol

[Findog]

Valtrex cancelled his endorsement deal with them, and upon hearing the news, Uncle Rico began slinging a football around in front of a video camera to send to the Falcons.

[peewee's lovechild]

Valtrex cancelled his endorsement deal with them, and upon hearing the news, Uncle Rico began slinging a football around in front of a video camera to send to the Falcons.

:lol :lol :lol :lol

He's got a good arm.
He can throw it across the mountains from Napoleans house.

[ajh18]

For those who think Vick wont jail time:
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2940312

Legal odds against Vick just got much longer

A grand jury indicted Atlanta Falcons' quarterback Michael Vick on Tuesday, which at least partially answers one question that has lingered since the news first broke about an alleged dogfighting operation on property owned by Vick in Virginia: Was Vick involved? Obviously, we know now that investigators believe he was.


There are plenty of football-related issues still to be resolved about Vick's future with the Falcons and the NFL, but those might be the least of his concerns right now. Questions about his legal future abound at the moment. Here are some answers.

What do these federal charges mean for Michael Vick?

Vick is in real trouble. He is up against the might and majesty of the U.S. government with all of its agents, all of its investigative techniques, and all of its skilled prosecutors. If he has any doubts about the power and skill of the forces arrayed against him, he can call Scooter Libby, former chief of staff to Vice President Cheney, or he can call Lord Conrad Black, the disgraced media mogul now facing time in a federal penitentiary. If he still isn't convinced, he can call Jeff Skilling, the zillionaire Enron CEO who is now residing in a federal pen. All three of them hired brilliant (and expensive) lawyers. All three thought they could explain their way out from under federal charges. And all three were convicted. Vick can, and probably will, hire some of America's best defense lawyers, but they will face a serious battle.

Would Vick be sent to jail if he is convicted?

Yes. It's hard to imagine any other outcome. The charges are serious, and the evidence against Vick presented at trial will be nasty. The government's case includes evidence that Vick and his cohorts "tested" pit bulls for ferocity. If the dogs failed the test, the indictment charges, they were executed by hanging or drowning. In one case, with Vick present, the indictment says a dog was slammed to the ground until it was dead. In another incident, a dog was soaked with a hose and then electrocuted. Those aren't the sort of transgressions that lead to probation and community service. It's the kind of behavior that results in punishment, and the punishment will be jail time.

What is the next step for Vick?

Vick will now watch to see which of his three co-defendants will be the first to make a deal with federal prosecutors. Each of them will think seriously about turning on Vick and offering testimony against him in return for less time in jail. Vick obviously is the prime target of the government effort. Prosecutors and agents will be willing to talk with his co-defendants about a deal if they are willing to help prove the case against Vick. The government indictment discloses four witnesses who have already agreed to testify against him. If all three of his co-defendants join these four witnesses against Vick, he and his lawyers might suggest that he, too, should talk to the government about a deal that would minimize his time in jail.

Vick is charged with "conspiracy" and violations of the "Travel Act." What does that mean?

The conspiracy charge will make things extra difficult for Vick and his lawyers. Under federal laws, the conspiracy charge allows federal prosecutors to link Vick to things that occurred even if he was not present. If the prosecutors can connect the four defendants, then crimes committed by one of them can be used to add to the evidence against the others. It's a tricky legal procedure that prosecutors love and defense lawyers detest. The Travel Act is a device invented by Robert F. Kennedy when he was Attorney General in the early '60s. It was designed for use against organized crime and made it easier to prove cases against hoodlums. In the sports world, it was used most recently in the Salt Lake City Winter Olympics bribery scandal. Federal prosecutors charged the Utah organizers under the Travel Act and proved millions of dollars in bribes. Vick, however, can take some hope from the fact that U.S. District Judge David Sam found the organizers not guilty of violating the Travel Act, even though there was powerful evidence of bribery.

What was Vick's role in the dogfighting conspiracy described in the indictment?

According to the indictment, Vick was in the middle of everything from beginning to end. He purchased a vacant piece of property for $34,000, the indictment says. He then had sheds built for training dogs and staging fights and a fence erected to shield the operation from view. And finally, the indictment says, he had a two-story frame house with a basketball court put up as a residence for the people taking care of the dogs. If you believe the indictment, the Vick property had everything anyone could want in a dogfighting operation.

When would Vick's trial begin?

The federal courthouse in Richmond, Va., is the home of the nationally recognized "rocket docket." Cases move quickly in Richmond, more quickly than in any other courthouse in the federal system. Vick's lawyers will be looking for delays and for time to prepare a defense, but the trial likely would begin in a matter of four to six months.

Are the federal authorities in Richmond tough on crime?

Ask Ralph Sampson, the former NBA star. He fell behind in child support payments to seven children that he had with four women, the kind of thing that is ordinarily worked out in a settlement. But instead of a settlement, Sampson found himself charged with felonies in federal court. And then, very quickly, he found himself in jail for two months on a child support charge. Yes, they're tough on crime in Richmond, and they might be particularly tough on crimes involving the torture and killing of dogs.

ESPN.com's Lester Munson is a Chicago lawyer and journalist who has been reporting on investigative and legal issues in the sports industry for 18 years

[DOMINATOR]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v291/DOMINATOR5/vickhalftime.jpg

[Kori Ellis]

Court document with the charges and all the details:

http://spurstalk.com/vick-charges.pdf

[duncan228]

Some gruesome details...Some of this is in the original post article, some isn't.

http://dailynews.att.net/cgi-bin/news?e=pri&dt=070718&cat=sports&st=sportsd8qf480o0&src=ap
Falcons' Vick Charged With Dogfighting

By HANK KURZ Jr.

RICHMOND, Va. (AP) - When a Bad Newz Kennels dog was wounded in a losing fight, NFL star Michael Vick was consulted before the animal was doused with water and electrocuted. That's just one of the gruesome details that emerged Tuesday when the Atlanta Falcons quarterback and three others were indicted by a federal grand jury.

The four were charged with competitive dogfighting, procuring and training pit bulls for fighting and conducting the enterprise across state lines.

They are scheduled to appear in federal court in Richmond on July 26, the same day the Falcons begin training camp. The four will have a bond hearing before a magistrate judge at 3:30 p.m., and an arraignment will follow at 4 p.m., the court said Wednesday.

The 18-page indictment, filed in the U.S. District Court for the Eastern District of Virginia, alleged the 27-year-old Vick and his co-defendants began the dogfighting operation in early 2001, the former Virginia Tech star's rookie year as the No. 1 pick.

The operation was centered at a property Vick owned in Surry County, where a fence shielded prying eyes from the back, and the two-story brick home was surrounded by fencing in the front, with several black buildings further back.

Unlike previous documents, which did not name Vick, the indictment is littered with his name, including this tidbit _ Vick was known as "Ookie" in the dogfighting world.

If convicted of all the charges, Vick and the others _ Purnell A. Peace, 35, of Virginia Beach; Quanis L. Phillips, 28, of Atlanta; and Tony Taylor, 34, of Hampton _ could face up to six years in prison, $350,000 in fines and restitution.

A woman who answered the phone at the home of Vick's mother, Brenda Boddie, said "no comment" and quickly hung up.

Telephone messages left at the offices and home of Vick's attorney, Larry Woodward, and an e-mail sent to his office were not returned.

While the Falcons and the NFL said little Tuesday, John Goodwin of the Humane Society of the United States said the details were especially troubling.

About eight young dogs were put to death at the Surry County home after they were found not ready to fight in April 2007, the indictment said. They were killed "by hanging, drowning and/or slamming at least one dog's body to the ground."

"Some of the grisly details in these filings shocked even me, and I'm a person who faces this stuff every day," Goodwin said. "I was surprised to see that they were killing dogs by hanging them, and one dog was killed by slamming it to the ground. Those are extremely violent methods of execution _ they're unnecessary and just sick."

Purses for the fights ranged from hundreds of dollars to the thousands, and participants and spectators often placed side bets on the outcome, according to the indictment.

After two Bad Newz Kennels dogs lost fights in March 2003, the indictment alleged Vick gave a bag containing $23,000 to the owner of the winning dogs.

Started in early 2002, according to the indictment, Bad Newz Kennels began purchasing pit bulls to train as fighters. Eventually, the defendants bought shirts and headbands "representing and promoting their affiliation."

After an April police raid on the property, Vick said he was rarely at the house, however, and had no idea that it might have been used in a criminal enterprise. He blamed family members for taking advantage of his generosity and pledged to be more careful.

He has since said very little, citing the advice of his attorneys.

But Tuesday the NFL was quick to decry the alleged animal abuse.

"The activities alleged are cruel, degrading and illegal. Michael Vick's guilt has not yet been proven, and we believe that all concerned should allow the legal process to determine the facts," NFL spokesman Brian McCarthy said.

Vick and the Falcons are due to report to training camp next week.

"Obviously, we are disturbed by today's news," the team said in a statement posted on its Web site, apologizing to fans for the negative publicity. "We will do the right thing for our club as the legal process plays out. We have a season to prepare for."

Vick and the others are accused of "knowingly sponsoring and exhibiting an animal fighting venture" and conducting a business enterprise involving gambling, as well as buying, transporting and receiving dogs for the purposes of an animal fighting venture.

The indictment said dogfights were held at the Virginia property and dog owners brought animals from six states, including New York and Texas.

Local authorities have been investigating since an April 25 drug raid at the property. On June 7, officials with the Department of Agriculture with help from state police executed their own search warrant and found the remains of seven dogs.

Surry County prosecutor Gerald G. Poindexter said he didn't know of the indictment before it was filed, and said he's not sure how the county will continue its separate case.

At the start, authorities seized 66 dogs, including 55 pit bulls, and equipment commonly used in dogfighting. About half the dogs were tethered to car axles with heavy chains that allowed the dogs to get close to each other, but not to have contact _ an arrangement typical for fighting dogs, according to the search warrant affidavit.

Before fights, participating dogs of the same sex would be weighed and bathed, according to the filings. Opposing dogs would be washed to remove any poison or narcotic placed on the dog's coat that could affect the other dog's performance.

Sometimes, dogs weren't fed to "make it more hungry for the other dog."

Fights would end when one dog died or with the surrender of the losing dog, which was sometimes put to death by drowning, strangulation, hanging, gun shot, electrocution or some other method, according to the documents.

[TheSanityAnnex]

Those poor dogs. I hope Vick gets ass raped in jail. Thank God the Chargers passed on Vick and picked Tomlinson. If they hadn't, I'd somehow being trying to defend this punkass.

[JMarkJohns]

If they hadn't, I'd somehow being trying to defend this punkass.

Supposedly, several Falcons message boards are calling for him to be cut.

I never read it, but it's being reported on other boards I read.

[TheSanityAnnex]

Michael Vick is making his younger brother look like a Saint.

[Condemned 2 HelLA]

Michael Vick is making his younger brother look like a Saint.

:lmao
That's no small feat there!
Add on top of that the bird flipping incident last year and the whole airport "water bottle" fiasco, it's starting to look like he's serious on wanting to overtake Tank Johnson, Pacman Jones and Chris Henry for NFL criminal posterboy/resident asshat
What a complete dumbshit.

[mardigan]

ROFL! YOU have no evidence to the contrary. All the evidence is in my favor.


52% passer, 70 QB rating, 1-1 TD-INT Ratio and 0-2 record. People only like him becuase the back up QB is always the most popular guy in town.
The only stast that says anything to me is the number of games started, until that grows and we have some actual proof, you dont know jack

[DOMINATOR]

:lmao
That's no small feat there!
Add on top of that the bird flipping incident last year and the whole airport "water bottle" incident, it's starting to look like he's serious on wanting to overtake Tank Johnson, Pacman Jones and Chris Henry for NFL criminal posterboy/resident asshat
What a complete dumbshit.
yeah i dont understand why ESPN shows are saying he doesnt have a track record unlike pacman etc... guess they just conveniently forget the middle finger and water bottle. hmm wonder how much the NFL is paying them to make it seem like he hasnt done that much when his football suspension isn't justified.

[FromWayDowntown]

This whole story just makes me sick to my stomach. I don't understand the rationale for dog fighting in the first place -- it seems a bit like Russian Roulette for those who aren't willing to take the bullet for themselves. In any event, such vile acts of inhumane treatment towards dogs just repulses me.

Vick is entitled to the benefit of the doubt as to the criminality of his conduct, and grand juries are a far cry from adversarial criminal proceedings, but it's enough for me that he's been directly implicated with people who treat dogs in that manner.

I've generally been a big fan of Vick as a football player; I'm no longer that.

[AnkleBreaker21]

vick is screwed, he cant get out of this one. i dont understand why they do this shit when they have all this money and everything they want.

[ancestron]

Yes i agree, Vick is fucked. He will go to prison, and rightfully so. yet I almost would like to see him step back on the football field and get his neck broken by some 300 lb. linebacker. You know if he ever comes back to the NFL it is going to be open season on Michael Vick. Opponents are just going to want to hurt him, bad.

[word]

SportsCenter just stated that Vick was involved with two others in the brutal killings of upwards of eight dogs by hanging, drowning and body-slamming.

How sick in the head are you to hang a dog?

Well at least now people can understand why it pissed off Texas fans when Michael Vick and Vince Youngs name were uttered in the same breath.

[peewee's lovechild]

Yes i agree, Vick is fucked. He will go to prison, and rightfully so. yet I almost would like to see him step back on the football field and get his neck broken by some 300 lb. linebacker. You know if he ever comes back to the NFL it is going to be open season on Michael Vick. Opponents are just going to want to hurt him, bad.

I don't know about that.

Dog fighting is not that big of a deal among the players.
Just remember the Clinton Portis comments.

[Vinnie_Johnson]

A grand jury indicted Atlanta Falcons' quarterback Michael Vick on Tuesday, which at least partially answers one question that has lingered since the news first broke about an alleged dogfighting operation on property owned by Vick in Virginia: Was Vick involved? Obviously, we know now that investigators believe he was.


There are plenty of football-related issues still to be resolved about Vick's future with the Falcons and the NFL, but those might be the least of his concerns right now. Questions about his legal future abound. Here are some answers.

What do these federal charges mean for Vick?

Vick is in real trouble. He is up against the might and majesty of the U.S. government with all of its agents, all of its investigative techniques and all of its skilled prosecutors. If he has any doubts about the power and skill of the forces arrayed against him, he can call Scooter Libby, former chief of staff to Vice President Dick Cheney, or he can call Lord Conrad Black, the disgraced media mogul facing time in a federal penitentiary. If he still isn't convinced, he can call Jeff Skilling, the zillionaire former Enron CEO who is residing in a federal pen. All three of them hired brilliant (and expensive) lawyers. All three thought they could explain their way out from under federal charges. And all three were convicted. Vick can, and probably will, hire some of America's best defense lawyers, but they will face a serious battle.

Would Vick be sent to jail if he is convicted?

Yes. It's hard to imagine any other outcome. The charges are serious, and the evidence against Vick presented at trial will be nasty. The government's case includes evidence that Vick and his cohorts "tested" pit bulls for ferocity. If the dogs failed the test, the indictment charges, they were executed by hanging or drowning. In one case, with Vick present, the indictment says a dog was slammed to the ground until it was dead. In another incident, a dog was soaked with a hose, then electrocuted. Those aren't the sort of transgressions that lead to probation and community service. It's the kind of behavior that results in punishment, and the punishment will be jail time.

What is the next step for Vick?

Vick will watch to see which of his three co-defendants will be the first to make a deal with federal prosecutors. Each of them will think seriously about turning on Vick and offering testimony against him in return for less time in jail. Vick obviously is the prime target of the government effort. Prosecutors and agents will be willing to talk with his co-defendants about a deal if they are willing to help prove the case against Vick. The government indictment discloses four witnesses who already have agreed to testify against him. If all three of his co-defendants join these four witnesses against Vick, he and his lawyers might suggest that he, too, should talk to the government about a deal that would minimize his time in jail.

Vick is charged with "conspiracy" and violations of the "Travel Act." What does that mean?

The conspiracy charge will make things extra difficult for Vick and his lawyers. Under federal laws, the conspiracy charge allows federal prosecutors to link Vick to things that occurred even if he was not present. If the prosecutors can connect the four defendants, crimes committed by one of them can be used to add to the evidence against the others. It's a tricky legal procedure that prosecutors love and defense lawyers detest. The Travel Act is a device invented by Robert F. Kennedy when he was U.S. Attorney General in the early '60s. It was designed for use against organized crime and made it easier to prove cases against hoodlums. In the sports world, it was used most recently in the Salt Lake City Winter Olympics bribery scandal. Federal prosecutors charged the Utah organizers under the Travel Act and proved millions of dollars in bribes. Vick, however, can take some hope from the fact that U.S. District Judge David Sam found the organizers not guilty of violating the Travel Act even though there was powerful evidence of bribery.

What was Vick's role in the dogfighting conspiracy described in the indictment?

According to the indictment, Vick was in the middle of everything from beginning to end. He purchased a vacant piece of property for $34,000, the indictment says. He then had sheds built for training dogs and staging fights and a fence erected to shield the operation from view. And finally, the indictment says, he had a two-story frame house with a basketball court put up as a residence for the people taking care of the dogs. If you believe the indictment, the Vick property had everything anyone could want in a dogfighting operation.

When would Vick's trial begin?

The federal courthouse in Richmond, Va., is the home of the nationally recognized "rocket docket." Cases move quickly in Richmond, more quickly than in any other courthouse in the federal system. Vick's lawyers will be looking for delays and for time to prepare a defense, but the trial likely would begin in a matter of four to six months.

Are the federal authorities in Richmond tough on crime?

Ask Ralph Sampson, the former NBA star. He fell behind in child support payments to seven children he had with four women, the kind of thing that ordinarily is worked out in a settlement. But instead of a settlement, Sampson found himself charged with felonies in federal court. Then, very quickly, he found himself in jail for two months on a child support charge. Yes, they're tough on crime in Richmond, and they might be particularly tough on crimes involving the torture and killing of dogs.

[Vinnie_Johnson]

Vick sounds screwed NFL days are over.

[Findog]

I don't know about that.

Dog fighting is not that big of a deal among the players.
Just remember the Clinton Portis comments.

Yeah, if you go to a pound-me-in-the-ass jail, you don't want to be a child molester or former law enforcement personnel.

[DarkReign]

Would Vick be sent to jail if he is convicted?

Yes. It's hard to imagine any other outcome. The charges are serious, and the evidence against Vick presented at trial will be nasty. The government's case includes evidence that Vick and his cohorts "tested" pit bulls for ferocity. If the dogs failed the test, the indictment charges, they were executed by hanging or drowning. In one case, with Vick present, the indictment says a dog was slammed to the ground until it was dead. In another incident, a dog was soaked with a hose and then electrocuted. Those aren't the sort of transgressions that lead to probation and community service. It's the kind of behavior that results in punishment, and the punishment will be jail time.

Dear God, I wish I was there to see someone do that. Honestly and truly. Please, let me catch someone doing that....

[inconvertible]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/bb/Cockfighting_dsc01729.jpg this is how La Raza does it.

[DarkReign]

this is how La Raza does it.

Who is La Raza?

Also, is it just me, or does cockfighting not hold the same meaning and significance that dogfighting does?

Anthropomorphic sympathy?

[gaKNOW!blee]

The only stast that says anything to me is the number of games started, until that grows and we have some actual proof, you dont know jack
LOL then how are you so sure he is a good backup and it was a mistake to get rid of him?

[degenerate_gambler]

Never really gave dog fighting a whole lot of thought prior to this. The more I read of Kori's link of the indictment, the more sickened I become. I believe absolutely that a person is innocent until proven guilty, but at this point, I hope everyone of his endorsements dries up sooner rather than later.

And if he is found guilty, send his ass up the river to the Iron Bars Motel.

[inconvertible]

http://landonhowell.com/wp-content/uncle_rico.jpg

[mardigan]

LOL then how are you so sure he is a good backup and it was a mistake to get rid of him?
Where exactly did I say he was going to be good in this thread? Maybe I think he will be good from the little I've seen, but I never brought it up in this thread. All I said was that you trying to say he sucks off of 2 starts doesnt seem like a fair assesment

[DarkReign]

Where exactly did I say he was going to be good in this thread? Maybe I think he will be good from the little I've seen, but I never brought it up in this thread. All I said was that you trying to say he sucks off of 2 starts doesnt seem like a fair assesment

Are you two talking about Matt Schaub (sp?)?

This football fanatic here on Detroit sports radio thinks the world of him and the dude tends to dominate the 30+ fantasy leagues hes in.

I, on the other hand, readily admit I dont know shit about him.

Carry on.

[BeerIsGood!]

I think the Falcons are definitely wishing they had him back at this point. Schaub is unproven where Harrington is a proven loser. The Falcons just pretty much became irrelevant because they put their trust and franchise on Vick.

[BeerIsGood!]

Wait, they were irrelevant anyway because Vick can't throw the ball for shit.

[gaKNOW!blee]

Where exactly did I say he was going to be good in this thread? Maybe I think he will be good from the little I've seen, but I never brought it up in this thread. All I said was that you trying to say he sucks off of 2 starts doesnt seem like a fair assesment
The post I replied to, before you stuck your nose in it was saying that the falcons can just put in Matt Schuab, oh thats right they dont have him. My response was yeah if he was any good, which there is no evidence that he is. As of now Harrington has proved alot more.

[mardigan]

As of now Harrington has proved alot more.
:lol
That he couldnt get the ball to Chris Chambers?
Or that he's really good at throwing the ball to the other team?
I'll take Schaub's potential over Harrington's crapiness anyday

[gaKNOW!blee]

:lol
That he couldnt get the ball to Chris Chambers?
Or that he's really good at throwing the ball to the other team?
I'll take Schaub's potential over Harrington's crapiness anyday
Atleast he was able to win some games in Miami last year. Thats more than you can say for Schuab.


What exactly makes you think Schuab has potential?

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

Are you two talking about Matt Schaub (sp?)?

This football fanatic here on Detroit sports radio thinks the world of him and the dude tends to dominate the 30+ fantasy leagues hes in.

I, on the other hand, readily admit I dont know shit about him.

Carry on.



http://www.michiganinplay.com/images/staff_sean.jpg

[Vinnie_Johnson]

http://www.michiganinplay.com/images/staff_sean.jpg

:lol :lol :donkey

[DarkReign]

http://www.sportsinferno.com/images/stories/mikebio.jpg
1270

Never listened to 1130.

[Marcus Bryant]

Are you two talking about Matt Schaub (sp?)?

This football fanatic here on Detroit sports radio thinks the world of him and the dude tends to dominate the 30+ fantasy leagues hes in.



Hope so.

[Trainwreck2100]

According to court documents filed by federal authorities earlier this month, dog fights have been sponsored by "Bad Newz Kennels" at the property since at least 2002. For the events, participants and dogs traveled from South Carolina, North Carolina, Maryland, New York, Texas and other states.

This is the problem with criminals today, if you are going to raise dogs to fight, why in heaven's name would you name your kennels that.

[Vinnie_Johnson]

This is the funny part.

Davon Boddie, the cousin of Falcons quarterback Michael Vick who lived on the property where investigators found evidence of dog fighting. Was the one who got busted for drugs and cops came over looking for drugs but found a bunch of dogs.

[Trainwreck2100]

http://deadspin.com/assets/resources/2007/07/morevickdogs.jpg





GUILTY!!!!!!!!!!!

[Sweetey]

Hilarious !!!

http://youtube.com/watch?v=XBuEBHi3BzU

[tsb2000]

Rumor has it the Falcons might sign Culpepper and ditch Vick now, but that's just a rumor.

[judaspriestess]

Never really gave dog fighting a whole lot of thought prior to this. The more I read of Kori's link of the indictment, the more sickened I become. I believe absolutely that a person is innocent until proven guilty, but at this point, I hope everyone of his endorsements dries up sooner rather than later.

And if he is found guilty, send his ass up the river to the Iron Bars Motel.


Its headed that way, NIKE has postponed his shoe coming out

http://www.ajc.com/falcons/content/sports/falcons/stori...

[degenerate_gambler]

Its headed that way, NIKE has postponed his shoe coming out

http://www.ajc.com/falcons/content/sports/falcons/stori...



I hadn't taken the time to read anything from the Atlanta area regarding this deal. I gotta say I'm kind of surprised about the seemingly overwhelming negative response to Vick over there. But I'm glad.

[TLWisfoine]

It is so nice to see that racism is still alive and well in America? Whenever a black man is accused of something he is automatically thought to be guilty. When those three little white boys were accused at Duke everyone was willing to hear the evidence and they are innocent till proven guilty. Bot for Vick though. Racism, ain't it grand?

[mardigan]

It is so nice to see that racism is still alive and well in America? Whenever a black man is accused of something he is automatically thought to be guilty. When those three little white boys were accused at Duke everyone was willing to hear the evidence and they are innocent till proven guilty. Bot for Vick though. Racism, ain't it grand?
Are you kidding? Those Duke kids where absolutely drug through the mud, and had their life's pretty much destroyed before any kind of ruling happened.

[TLWisfoine]

Are you kidding? Those Duke kids where absolutely drug through the mud, and had their life's pretty much destroyed before any kind of ruling happened.

Well the people on this board as well as most of the media are already saying that action has to be taken against Vick and that he is already guilty before any ruling happened. Don't worry, another black man will be brought down much to your pleasure and the rest of White America.

[mardigan]

Well the people on this board as well as most of the media are already saying that action has to be taken against Vick and that he is already guilty before any ruling happened. Don't worry, another black man will be brought down much to your pleasure and the rest of White America.
Damn dude, Im all for due process and I havent made one remark to state the otherwise, so chill with all the racist talk

[TLWisfoine]

Damn dude, Im all for due process and I havent made one remark to state the otherwise, so chill with all the racist talk

Read around the boards and other places, and turn on the television and turn it to where they are talking about Vick. You didn't see all this rush to judgement with those poor little white boys.

[mikejones99]

Falcons over under for wins just dropped to 7 this year.

[BeerIsGood!]

Read around the boards and other places, and turn on the television and turn it to where they are talking about Vick. You didn't see all this rush to judgement with those poor little white boys.

Hold up Jesse Jackson, you're a grade A ass on this one. The Duke kids were crucified in the media and there was a legitimate chance they were innocent of rape - there is not much chance Vick is innocent of these charges. The guy advocates dog fighting on his property and has been indicted by a federal grand jury on serious charges. He has been identified by several sources as being a big player in these illegal proceedings.

Besides, in this day the double standard goes in favor of the black population when it comes to media crusades. Imus gets crucified for making a joke referencing "nappy headed ho's" while you and your fellow ass Al Sharpton (along with Gary Sheffield) can say anything stupid, including calling for race wars, and not get crucified.

[TLWisfoine]

Over under on how many white people are thrilled about another successful black man might go down?

[BeerIsGood!]

http://www.paistortuga.net/binladillas/villains/jesse%20jackson.jpg

[TLWisfoine]

http://www.suavvmagazine.com/sitebuilder/images/KKK_color-621x408.jpg

[judaspriestess]

It is so nice to see that racism is still alive and well in America? Whenever a black man is accused of something he is automatically thought to be guilty. When those three little white boys were accused at Duke everyone was willing to hear the evidence and they are innocent till proven guilty. Bot for Vick though. Racism, ain't it grand?

vick was indicted by FEDERAL prosecutors and they don't fuck around. This investigation has gone on for six fucking months + four witnesses have come forward. Shove the race card. This is about cruelty to animals and what seems to be a problem in this country. What a degenerate commment to make.


Read around the boards and other places, and turn on the television and turn it to where they are talking about Vick. You didn't see all this rush to judgement with those poor little white boys.
the duke players discredited what ever they were accused of with proof. They were indicted by a get this, a WHITE prosecutor without properly investigating the whole incident prior. there was a rush to judgement by an overzealous WHITE prosecutor. These are two different situtions.

[TLWisfoine]

Hold up Jesse Jackson, you're a grade A ass on this one. The Duke kids were crucified in the media and there was a legitimate chance they were innocent of rape - there is not much chance Vick is innocent of these charges. The guy advocates dog fighting on his property and has been indicted by a federal grand jury on serious charges. He has been identified by several sources as being a big player in these illegal proceedings. Besides, in this day the double standard goes in favor of the black population when it comes to media crusades. Imus gets crucified for making a joke referencing "nappy headed ho's" while you and your fellow ass Al Sharpton (along with Gary Sheffield) can say anything stupid, including calling for race wars, and not get crucified.[
First of all

http://images.jupiterimages.com/common/detail/16/80/22198016.jpg
Oh yeah whites are so oppressed

Secondly, doesn't this country go by the innocent till proven guilty thing. Other than other criminals who are involved in this who says that he advocates dog fighting?

[TLWisfoine]

the duke players discredited what ever they were accused of with proof. They were indicted by a get this, a WHITE prosecutor without properly investigating the whole incident prior. there was a rush to judgement by an overzealous WHITE prosecutor. These are two different situtions.

I am not accusing the Feds of anything, I am accusing the public and especially the media for a rush to jugdement. You didn't see the public at large automatically believe the worst in the Dukie boys as they do with Vick. Innocent till proven guilty my ass!!! O.J. was found not guilty, get over it.

[leemajors]

Mike Vick stat of the day: Between 2000 and 2005, 99 percent of the 435,000 federal criminal defendants prosecuted nationwide were convicted, according to ESPN.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

Dude, this is the court of public opinion. Legality and presumption of innocence have no place here.

[TLWisfoine]

Dude, this is the court of public opinion. Legality and presumption of innocence have no place here.

I also bet that anytime a black man is accused of a crime, you are more proned to believe they did it over a white person. You probably get nervous when a group of blacks walk by and you probably follow a black person in a store to see if they steal anything. Also, it is the public who decides the guilt or innocence of people as well. So if a jury comes in and believes that the person is already guilty because in the court of public opinion he has been convicted he has no chance.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

I also bet that anytime a black man is accused of a crime, you are more proned to believe they did it over a white person. You probably get nervous when a group of blacks walk by and you probably follow a black person in a store to see if they steal anything. Also, it is the public who decides the guilt or innocence of people as well. So if a jury comes in and believes that the person is already guilty because in the court of public opinion he has been convicted he has no chance.

I bet you don't know your head from your ass. You are prone to make outlandish comments because you can't prove your point. You probably get nervous when a group of white lacrosse players have a party. Also, if you are indeed a retard, do I get dumber by responding to you?

And shouldn't you be blaming the guy who allowed this to happen to himself?

Innocent or not, Vick put himself in the line of fire, no?

[TLWisfoine]

I bet you don't know your head from your ass. You are prone to make outlandish comments because you can't prove your point. You probably get nervous when a group of white lacrosse players have a party. Also, if you are indeed a retard, do I get dumber by responding to you?

The Duke Lacrosse players did as well by hiring those strippers, and yet most of America is ready to feel sorry for them for being wrongly accused and having their lives destroyed. Lets see if Vick gets the same consideration if he is found not guilty.

[FromWayDowntown]

He's right -- we should all be asking Mike Vick to walk and care for our dogs. I know I'm sending my dog to Vick's kennels the next time I go on vacation -- I'm sure he'll be very well cared for.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

Lets see if Vick gets the same consideration if he is found not guilty.

He won't. But neither did Mark Chmura.

People move on to crucify other high profile celebrities/star athletes. We love to tear them down just as much as we love to build them up.

[TLWisfoine]

People move on to crucify other high profile celebrities/star athletes. We love to tear them down just as much as we love to build them up.

I see your point and I guess your right. Even though I still think their is a huge bias when it comes to race and public presumption of guilt this does seem like a case of a great number of people wanting to see a high profile person crash and burn, just like it seemed everybody was so happy to see Paris Hilton go to jail.

I apologize for my divisive posts in this topic.

[judaspriestess]

I see your point and I guess your right. Even though I still think their is a huge bias when it comes to race and public presumption of guilt this does seem like a case of a great number of people wanting to see a high profile person crash and burn, just like it seemed everybody was so happy to see Paris Hilton go to jail.

I apologize for my divisive posts in this topic.

why don't you just accept reality that alleged criminals come in all colors.
People are reacting to the cruelty brought on to the animals and hopefully this will open the doors to end such horrible acts. vick regardless of his guilt or innocence brought this on to himself and if he is found guilty should be punished to the highest extent.
No one should ever hurt children, animals or old people. Someone who preys on the defenseless is a sick bastard.

[BacktoBasics]

It is so nice to see that racism is still alive and well in America? Whenever a black man is accused of something he is automatically thought to be guilty. When those three little white boys were accused at Duke everyone was willing to hear the evidence and they are innocent till proven guilty. Bot for Vick though. Racism, ain't it grand?You are a fucking idiot. Those kids were blackballed, had their season canceled and their innocent white coach fired. We should feel sorry for them because guess what they didn't do anything wrong.

Vick owned the house wether he actually killed dogs or not doesn't matter he is responsible for everything that goes on at his property no matter how rich or black he is.

You're the racist fuck here. What next OJ didn't do it?

[WhiteFrank]

Fuck black people. Every last one of them.

[DarkReign]

I see your point and I guess your right. Even though I still think their is a huge bias when it comes to race and public presumption of guilt this does seem like a case of a great number of people wanting to see a high profile person crash and burn, just like it seemed everybody was so happy to see Paris Hilton go to jail.

I apologize for my divisive posts in this topic.

You dont have to apologize for being a race-baiting, sycophantic idiot.

Welcome to SpursTalk!

[Day Day Cartier]

Over under on how many white people are thrilled about another successful black man might go down?
LOL thats real talk you know these devils was born to Hate lol they cant stomach that vick is paid if Peyton manning did this shit it wouldn't even make the news nice post..

[TLWisfoine]

Fuck black people. Every last one of them.

So this is how it is on Spurstalk. Lets see if people condemn this, doubt it though.


http://www.bushywood.com/council_images/adolf_hitler.jpg

[samikeyp]

So this is how it is on Spurstalk. Lets see if people condemn this, doubt it though.

No, its how one dumbass troll on Spurstalk tries to stir up the pot.

Judging an entire group of people based on the actions of a few is ignorance at its worst, which is what this troll is trying to do.

Don't buy the hype.

[TLWisfoine]

You are a fucking idiot. Those kids were blackballed, had their season canceled and their innocent white coach fired. We should feel sorry for them because guess what they didn't do anything wrong.

We should feel sorry for them because they are white.


Vick owned the house wether he actually killed dogs or not doesn't matter he is responsible for everything that goes on at his property no matter how rich or black he is.

Those little boys at Duke invited the stripper also. They invited trouble. If they were good little Christians they wouldn't have done that.


You're the racist fuck here. What next OJ didn't do it?

Its always about O.J. isn't it. You people just can't get over it can you. You see O.J.'s face everytime a successful black man who gets in a little trouble.




http://www.annanicolecoverup.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/02/6828_l.jpg

[Vinnie_Johnson]

Fuck black people. Every last one of them.

Fuck stupid people! Like you!

[samikeyp]

We should feel sorry for them because they are white.

We should feel sorry for Vick because he is black?

I agree with you that he deserves due process but while I will not say "he did it" until a court does, I still have the right to find the crime dispicable.

[samikeyp]

Fuck stupid people! Like you!

Agreed but we shouldn't give that asshole the time of day. He is just looking for attention.

[judaspriestess]

So this is how it is on Spurstalk. Lets see if people condemn this, doubt it though.


http://www.bushywood.com/council_images/adolf_hitler.jpg


take your rose colored blame the world glasses off will ya?

look at the dudes post count and his name, its some idiot waiting for you to react just the way you did.

But seriously, you need to stop blaming every other race for your shortcomings its pretty obvious on your posts you have deeper issues. Its so easy for you to play the race card instead of facing whatever inner demons you have dear.
Best wishes.

[mardigan]

this isnt about race, its about the crime. if any race of person did this you would see the same reaction, people in the USA love animals, dont fuck with dogs

[TLWisfoine]

But seriously, you need to stop blaming every other race for your shortcomings its pretty obvious on your posts you have deeper issues. Its so easy for you to play the race card instead of facing whatever inner demons you have dear.

So your saying racism doesn't exist anymore and we live in a perfect world? Its just like most white people nowadays to deny that racism still exists. Do most whites want to take any black person they see and string them up a tree, no, but you can't deny that covert racism is still very strong today.

[samikeyp]

So your saying racism doesn't exist anymore and we live in a perfect world? Its just like most white people nowadays to deny that racism still exists. Do most whites want to take any black person they see and string them up a tree, no, but you can't deny that covert racism is still very strong today.

No one is saying that racism doesn't exist, it does and not just toward black people. I would even say that there is still plenty of overt racism as well. My point is that racism isn't always the reason for a specific action.

They didn't go after Vick just because he is black, they are going after him because he could be involved in all this.

Personally I feel that Vick is guilty of one of the following:

Either he was involved in all this
or
He was not directly involved with this but knew about what was going on.
or
He did not have any idea what was going on at his property which, while not criminal, is just plain stupid.

If you are going to let people use your land and house, you better damn sure know what is going on just for this reason.

[BacktoBasics]

We should feel sorry for them because they are white.



Those little boys at Duke invited the stripper also. They invited trouble. If they were good little Christians they wouldn't have done that.



Its always about O.J. isn't it. You people just can't get over it can you. You see O.J.'s face everytime a successful black man who gets in a little trouble.




http://www.annanicolecoverup.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/02/6828_l.jpgYou really are a fucking moron. What are you a bible beating do gooder. You think you live up to the eyes of your god in a good light? I bet you are dog humping cat twat licking pedo who makes excuses day in and day out for all of your shortcomings. Its just the white man keeping you down right?

Those kids did what most kids do at that age and thats have fun. They hired someone legally without breaking the law who took advange of them. Probably because they were white and being a poor black slut hoodrat with no life and nothing to look forward to she thought she could cry white wolf and get the black support.

Black people around the world should burn this nappy knobslobber at the fucking stake for using race behind her lies for financial gain. If that doesn't set back black equality I don't know what does. You got your racism all backward you ignorant cockwhore.

[RC's Boss]

What's the big deal? They were just dogs. The war in Iraq has claimed plenty of soldiers and even more civilians that the media calls "insurgents". If Budweiser wanted to picket the NFL, then there'd be problem. I don't see PETA commercials on TV during superbowl halftime. There's genocide all throughout the world and you fuckers are all on your high horse wanting to crucify someone for dog fighting?!?!?!?! I hope he plays, and plays very well this season. Maybe they'll win it all, so you fucks will really be pissed!

[TLWisfoine]

Those kids did what most kids do at that age and thats have fun. They hired someone legally without breaking the law who took advange of them. Probably because they were white and being a poor black slut hoodrat with no life and nothing to look forward to she thought she could cry white wolf and get the black support.

Listen Adolf, I was pointing out that whether or not they broke the law or not they put themselves in that situation by hiring the stripper the same way that Vick put himself in his situation regardless of whether he broke the law or not. I didn't see near as much outrage against that "white trash slut" who lied when she said Kobe raped her, but I think we all know why that is, don't we, Adolf!!!

[RC's Boss]

If you had roadkill on your street during the early 90's, it may have been me and my friends. We ran over dogs, cats, squirrels, pandas, etc. Any critter that jumped it's ass in the street when we came thru was as good as dead!!!!!!!!!! I hit a dear one year right before thanksgiving. It was still alive (just a little leg damage). Needless to say, I immediatley gave a shot to it's dome and filled my belly. Take that dammit!

[samikeyp]

I didn't see near as much outrage against that "white trash slut" who lied when she said Kobe raped her, but I think we all know why that is, don't we, Adolf!!!

You didn't see LakersGround! :)


Racism is ugly period. It is not, however, the only reason why things occur.

In 99, I was working an extra job as a pizza delivery driver. One night I was jumped by two hispanic guys. Did they jump me because I was white? No. Did they jump me because they were hispanic? no. The only color involved was green. I had money, they wanted it.

If I were to say, "all hispanics are thieves" based on the actions of two, that would be racist of me because its not true. Just because I think Dogfighting is disgusting and think anyone who participates in it should be thrown in jail doesn't make me anti-Vick or anti-Black...it makes me anti-dogfighting. TL...you are basically saying everyone here is condemning Vick solely because he is black and that all white people are doing the same and do the same with every black man who is in trouble with the law. You also seem to think that all white folks were rooting for the Duke kids to get off just because they are white. Those comments, too, are racist. If you search this forum for threads on that topic, you will see alot of comments against those kids, from people of all races. I don't hate Michael Vick, how can you hate someone you have never met? I do, however, hate what he has been accused of.

I will ask you this...if Vick is exonerated of these charges...I will be one of the first here to say we should move forward. If he is proven guilty, will you be one of the first to say he should be punished?

If you are truly about justice and the guilty being punished, you will be.

[RC's Boss]

When I was in college, we used to order pizzas to the apartments around us and laugh our asses off when the guy would show up w/ pizza, breadsticks, and all! Those were the days. By the way............ I'm not a fan of dog fighting either, it's kind of boring. Might I suggest roosters. Cockfighting is the shit. They don't stop til one of 'em drops!

[samikeyp]

When I was in college, we used to order pizzas to the apartments around us and laugh our asses off when the guy would show up w/ pizza, breadsticks, and all! Those were the days.

As the pizza guy, so did I...it means I got free dinner!! :lol

[Extra Stout]

For the purposes of this thread, blaming it on white people is a defensive mechanism to cope with being so incredibly pissed off at and disappointed with Michael Vick for embarrassing himself and all the people who rooted for him, and throwing all of his success away for something as stupid as this, especially after he made it out of the hood like he did.

Allegedly.

[Trainwreck2100]

Listen Adolf, I was pointing out that whether or not they broke the law or not they put themselves in that situation by hiring the stripper the same way that Vick put himself in his situation regardless of whether he broke the law or not. I didn't see near as much outrage against that "white trash slut" who lied when she said Kobe raped her, but I think we all know why that is, don't we, Adolf!!!


Yes that white slut lied and so Kobe decided to settle the civil case out of court. Because innocent men give liars money for no reason. Kobe was also tricked into lying to the cops, on tapes, that ended up having to be thrown out.

[TLWisfoine]

Yes that white slut lied and so Kobe decided to settle the civil case out of court. Because innocent men give liars money for no reason. Kobe was also tricked into lying to the cops, on tapes, that ended up having to be thrown out.

Whatever he paid that lying slut probably cost him a lot less than what he would have ended up paying his lawyers if the trial had continued. Also if she had been raped, don't you think she is sending the wrong message by saying it is okay to do so as long as you are properly compensated and letting the rapist go free to rape again.

[TLWisfoine]

will ask you this...if Vick is exonerated of these charges...I will be one of the first here to say we should move forward. If he is proven guilty, will you be one of the first to say he should be punished?

I never claimed to know whether he was innocent or guilty, I wasn't there so how the hell should I know? I was basically saying that he should at least be given a chance without people throwing him to the gas chamber without a trial or hearing his side. Many defendants have beaten charges when it seemed that they had no shot of winning.

[RC's Boss]

Innocent or guilty, let him play... Fuck a damn pit bull, this shit is stupid! If he wants to train my daughter's chihuahua to fight, he can have at it. I pray for that little hyper fuckers demise!

[Jelly]

So your saying racism doesn't exist anymore and we live in a perfect world? Its just like most white people nowadays to deny that racism still exists. Do most whites want to take any black person they see and string them up a tree, no, but you can't deny that covert racism is still very strong today.


You're right. Racism exists today. As a white person living in DC, I was frequently subjected to racist behavior and speech by blacks.

[BacktoBasics]

Listen Adolf, I was pointing out that whether or not they broke the law or not they put themselves in that situation by hiring the stripper the same way that Vick put himself in his situation regardless of whether he broke the law or not. I didn't see near as much outrage against that "white trash slut" who lied when she said Kobe raped her, but I think we all know why that is, don't we, Adolf!!!I tell you what I'd like to do. Strap your ignorant ass down to one of those doggie rape poles and tear loose one Vicks abused dogs on you.

Kobe raped that bitch and we all know it. OJ did it. That black bitch lied. Vick bets on and abuses innocent animals. Why you insist on protecting the guilty is beyond me.

I hope you die and unusual and cruel death

sin,

Adolf

[BacktoBasics]

For the purposes of this thread, blaming it on white people is a defensive mechanism to cope with being so incredibly pissed off at and disappointed with Michael Vick for embarrassing himself and all the people who rooted for him, and throwing all of his success away for something as stupid as this, especially after he made it out of the hood like he did.

Allegedly.Well put. Basically guilty by association, it was his home. If I had a rep button I'd hit you up.

[RC's Boss]

I tell you what I'd like to do. Strap your ignorant ass down to one of those doggie rape poles and tear loose one Vicks abused dogs on you.

Kobe raped that bitch and we all know it. OJ did it. That black bitch lied. Vick bets on and abuses innocent animals. Why you insist on protecting the guilty is beyond me.

I hope you die and unusual and cruel death

sin,

Adolf
You hope they die an unusual and cruel death, yet you want to send a man to prison for abusing dogs. :rolleyes

[RC's Boss]

Gotta go now, I'm going to take my daughter's annoying canine next door to pick a fight w/ the neighbor's terrier. Should be fun... I invite you all to join and watch the excitement.

[BacktoBasics]

You hope they die an unusual and cruel death, yet you want to send a man to prison for abusing dogs. :rolleyesThe guys an asshole. Fuck him we could use less assholes like that floating around promoting illegal activity and immoral acts against innocent animals. Hell innocent white people too.

I'm guessing he's black or sleeps with one. The way he loves to put the white man spin on things screams reverse racism.

[John Patrick]

the falcons have to see that this guy just isnt the right one...

its bad whenever marcus is the Vick son that looks good.

[RC's Boss]

Free Michael Vick!

[peewee's lovechild]

Listen Adolf, I was pointing out that whether or not they broke the law or not they put themselves in that situation by hiring the stripper the same way that Vick put himself in his situation regardless of whether he broke the law or not. I didn't see near as much outrage against that "white trash slut" who lied when she said Kobe raped her, but I think we all know why that is, don't we, Adolf!!!

Just what the hell is wrong with you?

Are you angry because you're being told you should be angry?? You have no real case to be angry. Micheal Vick is news. That's what it is. And, as long as he's going to be in the news, people are going to be guessing whether he's quilty or not. That's the way it is, face it. If you don't like it, you can just as easily change the channel to QVC or something.

You're the one making it racial. You're the one making racist statements. Your'e the one that's fanning the flames. Look to yourself, you have some issues to deal with.

And, just what the fuck is up with your stupid ass arguement about the Duke kids?? Fuck, didn't you pay attention to the news during the whole Duke fiasco?? The were on the razors edge of a race riot because of people like you. People that didn't want to wait for the facts because they NEEDED to have the white Duke kids guilty. But, when the truth came out, what then?? Where was Al Sharpton? Why didn't the black community come out and apologize to the innocent Duke kids?? Why didn't Shartpon and others come out during primetime television to apologize??

What about that bullshit Gary Sheffield has been spewing??? As a man of Latin heritage, I take great offense to what he said. Stereo typing us and making vast generalizations about our culture?? Where's his suspension?? Where's the Sheffield backlash?? I didn't hear the NAACP step up to refute what this guy is saying?? But, I guess for you, and all others like you, it's okay.

And, what's with this bullshit arguement about the Duke kids "putting themselves" in that situation?? How fucking stupid are you?? I've been to several parties where strippers were involved and never once did we feel like we were putting ourselves in any type of situation. Parties, beer, and strippers are what the majority of male college students do . . . regardless of race. You're just a fucking idiot for trying to make that point.

You are so wrong about the Micheal Vick ordeal. There is no racial bais, at all. He's accused, and people are going to guess his innocence because he's a celeberity. Quit trying to make this into a racial ordeal.

[RC's Boss]

Just what the hell is wrong with you?

Are you angry because you're being told you should be angry?? You have no real case to be angry. Micheal Vick is news. That's what it is. And, as long as he's going to be in the news, people are going to be guessing whether he's quilty or not. That's the way it is, face it. If you don't like it, you can just as easily change the channel to QVC or something.

You're the one making it racial. You're the one making racist statements. Your'e the one that's fanning the flames. Look to yourself, you have some issues to deal with.

And, just what the fuck is up with your stupid ass arguement about the Duke kids?? Fuck, didn't you pay attention to the news during the whole Duke fiasco?? The were on the razors edge of a race riot because of people like you. People that didn't want to wait for the facts because they NEEDED to have the white Duke kids guilty. But, when the truth came out, what then?? Where was Al Sharpton? Why didn't the black community come out and apologize to the innocent Duke kids?? Why didn't Shartpon and others come out during primetime television to apologize??

What about that bullshit Gary Sheffield has been spewing??? As a man of Latin heritage, I take great offense to what he said. Stereo typing us and making vast generalizations about our culture?? Where's his suspension?? Where's the Sheffield backlash?? I didn't hear the NAACP step up to refute what this guy is saying?? But, I guess for you, and all others like you, it's okay.

And, what's with this bullshit arguement about the Duke kids "putting themselves" in that situation?? How fucking stupid are you?? I've been to several parties where strippers were involved and never once did we feel like we were putting ourselves in any type of situation. Parties, beer, and strippers are what the majority of male college students do . . . regardless of race. You're just a fucking idiot for trying to make that point.

You are so wrong about the Micheal Vick ordeal. There is no racial bais, at all. He's accused, and people are going to guess his innocence because he's a celeberity. Quit trying to make this into a racial ordeal.
I wanna see those tits pop out in your av... but the shit keeps starting over.

[peewee's lovechild]

I wanna see those tits pop out in your av... but the shit keeps starting over.

No shit.

Those are some nice looking tits.
But, it's a fucking tease.

[TLWisfoine]

Kobe raped that bitch and we all know it. OJ did it. That black bitch lied. Vick bets on and abuses innocent animals. Why you insist on protecting the guilty is beyond me.

Prove that Kobe raped that lying little slut, who after she was supposedly raped went on to screw some other joker. Face it, one of your precious little white princesses is capable of making shit up as well. She along with that stupid lying bitch Susan Smith, who lied about a black man kidnapping her children when it was she who killed them all along need to be gangraped by a gang of black men.

[Extra Stout]

Prove that Kobe raped that lying little slut, who after she was supposedly raped went on to screw some other joker. Face it, one of your precious little white princesses is capable of making shit up as well. She along with that stupid lying bitch Susan Smith, who lied about a black man kidnapping her children when it was she who killed them all along need to be gangraped by a gang of black men.
So Mexicans are white devils too now? Man, they are seriously going mainstream.

[TLWisfoine]

Are you angry because you're being told you should be angry?? You have no real case to be angry. Micheal Vick is news. That's what it is. And, as long as he's going to be in the news, people are going to be guessing whether he's quilty or not. That's the way it is, face it. If you don't like it, you can just as easily change the channel to QVC or something.

I am not debating whether he is innocent or guilt, lets just hear all the facts and each side of the story before we come to judgement.


You're the one making it racial. You're the one making racist statements. Your'e the one that's fanning the flames. Look to yourself, you have some issues to deal with.

Your so quick to point out my statements but you choose to ignore other racist statements in this thread. Typical!!!


And, just what the fuck is up with your stupid ass arguement about the Duke kids?? Fuck, didn't you pay attention to the news during the whole Duke fiasco?? The were on the razors edge of a race riot because of people like you. People that didn't want to wait for the facts because they NEEDED to have the white Duke kids guilty. But, when the truth came out, what then?? Where was Al Sharpton? Why didn't the black community come out and apologize to the innocent Duke kids?? Why didn't Shartpon and others come out during primetime television to apologize??

Ain't this a bitch!!! "People like me" My people? So you saying that blacks are proned to riot everytime we feel that the justice system might be looking unfavorably towards us and we make our voices heard. Because the justice system has always worked for blacks during the history of this country. So whenever a group of white people gather to protest something its called a "peaceful protest", but whenever a group of black people gather uh oh run for the hills there's gonna be a riot. Also you yap about how you saw it as unfair when "people like me" were ready to throw those poor little white boys in jail before hearing all the facts and yet you don't share the same outrage for the same people who are doing it to Vick before we hear all the facts, and I don't mean "facts" that are thrown out by a racially biased media. Also, since you brought it up, there were many blacks who came out and criticized Sharpton for his obvious bias for the case, its just the majority white media doesn't really care when other educated brothers talk and talk eloquently without there being some sort of controversy they can spin!!!


What about that bullshit Gary Sheffield has been spewing??? As a man of Latin heritage, I take great offense to what he said. Stereo typing us and making vast generalizations about our culture?? Where's his suspension?? Where's the Sheffield backlash?? I didn't hear the NAACP step up to refute what this guy is saying?? But, I guess for you, and all others like you, it's okay.

I'm not familiar with what Gary Sheffield said, but there you go generalizing blacks again, as if the NAACP speaks for all blacks. How about I throw a generalization towards you. I don't remember the KKK apologizing for all the blacks that they have maimed and terrorized over the decades, so all whites must feel that there actions were justified.

[DarkReign]

Youre an idiot and a minority in your own black community.

I hope you spend the rest of your life lamenting the world.

[DarkReign]

Who is that fat-ass broad in RC's avatar?

[samikeyp]

I never claimed to know whether he was innocent or guilty, I wasn't there so how the hell should I know? I was basically saying that he should at least be given a chance without people throwing him to the gas chamber without a trial or hearing his side. Many defendants have beaten charges when it seemed that they had no shot of winning.

and I agreed with you.


I agree with you that he deserves due process but while I will not say "he did it" until a court does, I still have the right to find the crime dispicable.

My question still stands though...if Michael Vick is found guilty of these charges,(and again for the record, I am not saying he is one way or the other) will you call for him to be punished.

[TLWisfoine]

My question still stands though...if Michael Vick is found guilty of these charges,(and again for the record, I am not saying he is one way or the other) will you call for him to be punished.

If proven guilty then yes he should be punished.

[samikeyp]

If proven guilty then yes he should be punished.

Agreed.

The sad thing is that even if Vick is proven not guilty....people won't let it go. And its not a black/white thing either. Like someone mentioned earlier in the thread....Mark Chmura was found not guilty but was still blasted by fans as was Kobe.

People love to take shots at celebrities. Black, white...doesn't matter.

[TLWisfoine]

I hope you spend the rest of your life lamenting the world.

If you think I'm crazy now, just wait until basketball season starts. Go Mavs!!!

[peewee's lovechild]

I am not debating whether he is innocent or guilt, lets just hear all the facts and each side of the story before we come to judgement.

No, but you're the one bitching that it's a racial thing.


Your so quick to point out my statements but you choose to ignore other racist statements in this thread. Typical!!!

I'm not ignoring other racist statements. There are plenty, and they are all idiots. I'm just pointing out that you are just as idiotic as they are. Typical?? What the fuck do you know about me??

I already know plenty about you because you think everybody is out to get Micheal Vick because he's a black man. You think you're back in the 60's and fighting for Equal Rights. But, you're standing up for a man that has a FEDERAL CASE against him. This isn't racial profiling. This isn't a Rodney King situation. This is Micheal Vick being accused by THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT. Can't you see that??

You can't seriously be this idiotic.


Ain't this a bitch!!! "People like me" My people? So you saying that blacks are proned to riot everytime we feel that the justice system might be looking unfavorably towards us and we make our voices heard. Because the justice system has always worked for blacks during the history of this country. So whenever a group of white people gather to protest something its called a "peaceful protest", but whenever a group of black people gather uh oh run for the hills there's gonna be a riot. Also you yap about how you saw it as unfair when "people like me" were ready to throw those poor little white boys in jail before hearing all the facts and yet you don't share the same outrage for the same people who are doing it to Vick before we hear all the facts, and I don't mean "facts" that are thrown out by a racially biased media. Also, since you brought it up, there were many blacks who came out and criticized Sharpton for his obvious bias for the case, its just the majority white media doesn't really care when other educated brothers talk and talk eloquently without there being some sort of controversy they can spin!!!


This reminds me of the movie Anger Management. There's this scene where Adam Sandler is in a situation that is spinning out of control, through no fault of his own, and this black agent comes up to him. Sandler says "damn, you people" and the black dude gets all offended, eventhough Sandler meant "you people" as in the people that were giving him a hassle. After that, all hell broke loose.

You remind me of that black agent, being that you're fucking stupid.

I can't believe I have to explain myself, but anyway. I meant "you people" as in people that are looking for any reason to jump on something. Never did I imply that it meant the entire African American population!!! That is something that your sick mind decided to believe.

That fact that you decided to put words in my mouth about how I said that all blacks are prone to riots is just fucking unbelievable. It shows your stupidity and paranoia. I never said that, and you fucking know it. It's offensive that you even try to infere that from what I said. What the fuck do you do all day??? Do you just look for ways to misconstrue what people say so that you can misquote them and make yourself feel better??

You are extremely sad.

Oh, and your point about other black leaders calling Al Sharpton out . . . well noted. But, answer this question: Do they have the same exposure as Al Sharpton?? Do they?? Sharpton has TV exposure, radio esposure (he has his own radio show), and newspaper exposure. Yes, there may have been some leaders of the black community who spoke out against him, but they don't have the same exposure he does. So, nothing much came from it. It should have been Sharpton apologizing. But, to date, he just hasn't.



I'm not familiar with what Gary Sheffield said, but there you go generalizing blacks again, as if the NAACP speaks for all blacks. How about I throw a generalization towards you. I don't remember the KKK apologizing for all the blacks that they have maimed and terrorized over the decades, so all whites must feel that there actions were justified.


Of course your not familiar with what Gary Sheffield said, it wasn't directed to blacks. Apparently, if it doesn't affect you, or if you don't percieve it as affecting you, you just don't give a shit.

Also, it's funny that you say that about the NAACP. Because, I'm sure you benefit when they do speak for the majority of blacks. But, now you don't want to be included because it counters your arguement. The fact is that the NAACP, and other black communities, are quick to denounce acts of racism against members of the black community (and I'm all for it, if it should be warranted), but they're not so quick in calling out members of their own community when they should do the same.

Oh and about the whole KKK thing . . . please!! What the fuck do I have to do with the KKK?? They killed and maimed my "people" too. You don't see me bitching about it. They don't matter. It's history. It doesn't affect me one bit. And, it doesn't affect you either.

So, what? The Nazi's apologize to the Jews for the Holocaust from here to eternity? The Japanese apologize to the U.S.A. for Pearl Harbor until the next millenium? Arabs apologize to the Northern African nations for taking over? The Catholic Church apologizes for the Inquistion? This can go on, and on, and on, and on . . . .

[TLWisfoine]

The sad thing is that even if Vick is proven not guilty....people won't let it go. And its not a black/white thing either. Like someone mentioned earlier in the thread....Mark Chmura was found not guilty but was still blasted by fans as was Kobe. People love to take shots at celebrities. Black, white...doesn't matter.


I already agreed that the Vick caseprobably isn't racial and is just another case of people wanting to bring down somebody famous in an earlier post. Since, I've just been arguing that although this case may not have a racial thing to it, a strong bias between the races still exists when it comes to the justice system and the publics perception of innocence and guilt between the races still exists.

[RC's Boss]

Who is that fat-ass broad in RC's avatar?
You call it fat. I call it PHAT and FINE as hell. She could pretend my face is a throne anytime bro! That's Free, the former host of 106th & Park.

[samikeyp]

Apparently its not just "white folks" who want Vick behind bars.

I was listening to the local sports talk radio show this morning and they were talking with Scoop Jackson from ESPN.com and he didn't hint at it...he said it...."Michael Vick belongs in jail...period"

[BacktoBasics]

need to be gangraped by a gang of black men.So you admit that when black people roll in groups there is usually a pending rape or crime.

[DarkReign]

I already agreed that the Vick caseprobably isn't racial and is just another case of people wanting to bring down somebody famous in an earlier post.

"Bring down somebody famous"? The dude ran an illegal dogfighting "league" that illegally gambled on said fights across state borders...illegally.

Right, theyre just trying to bring down somebody famous is all. No, no, no...has nothing to do with, well...you know...the fucking law or anything.

Ignorance, breeds ignorance, breeds ignorance, etc

[DarkReign]

http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/2520/serenarx8.jpg
http://img252.imageshack.us/img252/9867/281444012349txi7.jpg

My eyes!! Someone pass the eye bleach, quick!

:vomit:

What, are you into transvestites or something? I mean, thats cool if you are, but...man....another reason to turn off sigs I guess.

[Day Day Cartier]

I tell you what I'd like to do. Strap your ignorant ass down to one of those doggie rape poles and tear loose one Vicks abused dogs on you.

Kobe raped that bitch and we all know it. OJ did it. That black bitch lied. Vick bets on and abuses innocent animals. Why you insist on protecting the guilty is beyond me.

I hope you die and unusual and cruel death

sin,

Adolf
This why i cant Stand you Devils...

[Day Day Cartier]

I already agreed that the Vick caseprobably isn't racial and is just another case of people wanting to bring down somebody famous in an earlier post. Since, I've just been arguing that although this case may not have a racial thing to it, a strong bias between the races still exists when it comes to the justice system and the publics perception of innocence and guilt between the races still exists.
Man you sound Crazy as Fuck if Vick was a Devil this shit wouldn't be going on and Fuck Sharpton and Russel Simmons both of them Uncle Toms Im behind Vick all the way..Jay Edgar Hoover let Crack Flow in America and what these Devils do??They name the FBI Building after him so yes this case is based on Race and if you dont like what im sayin go kill yo self and quit Bringin up OJ the Bitch is Dead she shouldn't been a Slut white people killing they own kids now so whats the Issue and Yes That Slut did lie on Kobe and guess what America? your Kids Is still gonna be fans of Vick and Kobe So get wit the program..

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/2520/serenarx8.jpg
http://img252.imageshack.us/img252/9867/281444012349txi7.jpg

My eyes!! Someone pass the eye bleach, quick!

:vomit:

What, are you into transvestites or something? I mean, thats cool if you are, but...man....another reason to turn off sigs I guess.


Racist!

You have been reported.

[Extra Stout]

This why i cant Stand you Devils...
A second black man confirms it. Mexican mestizos are now included among "white devils."

Congratulations.

[DarkReign]

Man you sound Crazy as Fuck if Vick was a Devil this shit wouldn't be going on and Fuck Sharpton and Russel Simmons both of them Uncle Toms Im behind Vick all the way..Jay Edgar Hoover let Crack Flow in America and what these Devils do??They name the FBI Building after him so yes this case is based on Race and if you dont like what im sayin go kill yo self and quit Bringin up OJ the Bitch is Dead she shouldn't been a Slut white people killing they own kids now so whats the Issue and Yes That Slut did lie on Kobe and guess what America? your Kids Is still gonna be fans of Vick and Kobe So get wit the program..

Euthanize yourself!

[Trainwreck2100]

Euthanize yourself!


how come you gotta go on and be usin big words like that?

[peewee's lovechild]

Man you sound Crazy as Fuck if Vick was a Devil this shit wouldn't be going on and Fuck Sharpton and Russel Simmons both of them Uncle Toms Im behind Vick all the way..Jay Edgar Hoover let Crack Flow in America and what these Devils do??They name the FBI Building after him so yes this case is based on Race and if you dont like what im sayin go kill yo self and quit Bringin up OJ the Bitch is Dead she shouldn't been a Slut white people killing they own kids now so whats the Issue and Yes That Slut did lie on Kobe and guess what America? your Kids Is still gonna be fans of Vick and Kobe So get wit the program..

Uncle Toms??

What the fuck is wrong with you?

Russel Simmons is the God Father of the Hip-Hop era and you're calling him an Uncle Tom? Sharpton has his issues, but at least he was at the forefront of the Civil Rights Movement. He was with Martin Luther King when he died for fucks sake!!

You are a fucking idiot who doesn't know jack fucking shit!!!
You don't even know what an Uncle Tom is you retard!!

[BacktoBasics]

Whats the deal with all the stupid backasswards black people in this thread?Or is it white people pretending to understand the black mans plight or cause? Or is it a black man pretending to be a white man impersonating a black man?

[Extra Stout]

Whats the deal with all the stupid backasswards black people in this thread?Or is it white people pretending to understand the black mans plight or cause? Or is it a black man pretending to be a white man impersonating a black man?
TLWisfoine is just lashing out. Racism in the justice system really has nothing to do with the Vick case, but apparently has brought TL's latent frustrations about hypocrises in our society to a head. Fine.

Whether Day Day Cartier is an actual person, or a troll lampooning negative stereotypes about urban blacks, I can't figure out. If he is an actual person, I feel sorry for him, because he is obviously mentally retarded and should have better access to social services. If he is a troll, then his depiction is quite offensive and should stop.

[O-Factor]

Prove that Kobe raped that lying little slut, who after she was supposedly raped went on to screw some other joker. Face it, one of your precious little white princesses is capable of making shit up as well. She along with that stupid lying bitch Susan Smith, who lied about a black man kidnapping her children when it was she who killed them all along need to be gangraped by a gang of black men.


http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y226/obedg/kobe_raped.jpg

[O-Factor]

Vick is a fucking idiot!

[samikeyp]

Day Day?

http://www.popmatters.com/film/reviews/n/images/next-friday.jpg

Where's Craig? :)

Yeah, yeah..I know...i'm the devil. :devil

[Day Day Cartier]

LOL is im a real person??You can check out My pics online if you want better yet go read some Articles on me i actually play the sport unlike some of you Devils and Toms my real name is Davon Kemp apart of the NBPP Movement
Myspace.com/Cartier313 and if you was to ever see me in public you got the advantage to Blow my head off because i know you all is cowards and dont wanna see me..

[Day Day Cartier]

Uncle Toms??

What the fuck is wrong with you?

Russel Simmons is the God Father of the Hip-Hop era and you're calling him an Uncle Tom? Sharpton has his issues, but at least he was at the forefront of the Civil Rights Movement. He was with Martin Luther King when he died for fucks sake!!

You are a fucking idiot who doesn't know jack fucking shit!!!
You don't even know what an Uncle Tom is you retard!!
Russel Is a Coke Head and yes he is a TOM because you never go Public against your brother for these Devils can Pick us apart in the Courts.And it is Clear that Sharpton like the Spotlight and fame Fuck Sharpton lets talk about real Leaders David Rice,Ed Poindexter,Huey Newton,Tupac Shakur,Afeni Shakur,Bobby Seale,Tookie Williams,Malcolm X,Ernie Chambers and Ice Cube Those are just a few leaders so learn your facts Pussy!!!

From the great Tupac...

Cops give a damn about a negro? Pull the trigger, kill a nigga, he's a hero.
Give the crack to the kids who the hell cares? One less hungry mouth on the welfare.
First ship 'em dope & let 'em deal the brothers.
Give 'em guns, step back, and watch 'em kill each other.
"It's time to fight back", that's what Huey said.
2 shots in the dark now Huey's dead.
I got love for my brother, but we can never go nowhere
unless we share with each other. We gotta start makin' changes.
Learn to see me as a brother 'stead of 2 distant strangers.
And that's how it's supposed to be.
How can the Devil take a brother if he's close to me?
I'd love to go back to when we played as kids,
but things change, and that's the way it is.

[Jelly]

LOL is im a real person??You can check out My pics online if you want better yet go read some Articles on me i actually play the sport unlike some of you Devils and Toms my real name is Davon Kemp apart of the NBPP Movement
Myspace.com/Cartier313 and if you was to ever see me in public you got the advantage to Blow my head off because i know you all is cowards and dont wanna see me..

Is English your second language?

[DarkReign]

Russel Is a Coke Head and yes he is a TOM because you never go Public against your brother for these Devils can Pick us apart in the Courts.And it is Clear that Sharpton like the Spotlight and fame Fuck Sharpton lets talk about real Leaders David Rice,Ed Poindexter,Huey Newton,Tupac Shakur,Afeni Shakur,Bobby Seale,Tookie Williams,Malcolm X,Ernie Chambers and Ice Cube Those are just a few leaders so learn your facts Pussy!!!

From the great Tupac...

Cops give a damn about a negro? Pull the trigger, kill a nigga, he's a hero.
Give the crack to the kids who the hell cares? One less hungry mouth on the welfare.
First ship 'em dope & let 'em deal the brothers.
Give 'em guns, step back, and watch 'em kill each other.
"It's time to fight back", that's what Huey said.
2 shots in the dark now Huey's dead.
I got love for my brother, but we can never go nowhere
unless we share with each other. We gotta start makin' changes.
Learn to see me as a brother 'stead of 2 distant strangers.
And that's how it's supposed to be.
How can the Devil take a brother if he's close to me?
I'd love to go back to when we played as kids,
but things change, and that's the way it is.

Heres a solution to your problem...

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k19/darkreign24/killyourself.gif

[DarkReign]

LOL is im a real person??You can check out My pics online if you want better yet go read some Articles on me i actually play the sport unlike some of you Devils and Toms my real name is Davon Kemp apart of the NBPP Movement
Myspace.com/Cartier313 and if you was to ever see me in public you got the advantage to Blow my head off because i know you all is cowards and dont wanna see me..

Yo if yall needs some mo info check my links, foo! I gotz all types of peeps reppin me acros the lands, son! We bout to get our shit togetha and march on the Florida courts, cuz we no its jus the man comin down on our nigga Vick.

Its a conspeeracy to bring down anutha brotha so u white folks can keep us down. Not anymo, not this time....

[BacktoBasics]

LOL is im a real person??You can check out My pics online if you want better yet go read some Articles on me i actually play the sport unlike some of you Devils and Toms my real name is Davon Kemp apart of the NBPP Movement
Myspace.com/Cartier313 and if you was to ever see me in public you got the advantage to Blow my head off because i know you all is cowards and dont wanna see me..Definately a real player! You can't formulate a sentence for shit. How many bitches did you infect with herpes during your so called study sessions. I'm willing to bet you couldn't even recite the alphabet. Myspace....are you fucking 12. Is that how you lure the little ladies in.

LMFAO @ NBPP Movement I didn't know they allow white pussies in their club....er treehouse. Come and hang me bitch.

[dallaskd]

I hope this doesnt end his career. Fuck PETA, those guys are freaks.

[Extra Stout]

I hope this doesnt end his career. Fuck PETA, those guys are freaks.
If he's convicted, his career is definitely over. But yes, the PETA cretins are freaks with their sideshow antics.

[Extra Stout]

LOL is im a real person??You can check out My pics online if you want better yet go read some Articles on me i actually play the sport unlike some of you Devils and Toms my real name is Davon Kemp apart of the NBPP Movement
Myspace.com/Cartier313 and if you was to ever see me in public you got the advantage to Blow my head off because i know you all is cowards and dont wanna see me..

Oh my, we got our ourselves a bona-fide black supremacist here! A real asset to his community. :lol

[dallaskd]

Poor RonMexico

[peewee's lovechild]

Russel Is a Coke Head and yes he is a TOM because you never go Public against your brother for these Devils can Pick us apart in the Courts.And it is Clear that Sharpton like the Spotlight and fame Fuck Sharpton lets talk about real Leaders David Rice,Ed Poindexter,Huey Newton,Tupac Shakur,Afeni Shakur,Bobby Seale,Tookie Williams,Malcolm X,Ernie Chambers and Ice Cube Those are just a few leaders so learn your facts Pussy!!!

From the great Tupac...

Cops give a damn about a negro? Pull the trigger, kill a nigga, he's a hero.
Give the crack to the kids who the hell cares? One less hungry mouth on the welfare.
First ship 'em dope & let 'em deal the brothers.
Give 'em guns, step back, and watch 'em kill each other.
"It's time to fight back", that's what Huey said.
2 shots in the dark now Huey's dead.
I got love for my brother, but we can never go nowhere
unless we share with each other. We gotta start makin' changes.
Learn to see me as a brother 'stead of 2 distant strangers.
And that's how it's supposed to be.
How can the Devil take a brother if he's close to me?
I'd love to go back to when we played as kids,
but things change, and that's the way it is.

Tupac??

That's your great comeback??

Didn't he get killed by Biggie's crew or some shit like that??
You call that leadership??

You are a fucking idiot.
What, you have the IQ of 10?

Yea, yea, yea . . . the cops put the crack on the street.
Whatever.

Why don't you find out who's actually selling it, and who their selling it to.
You dumb fuck.
Black dealers selling to black kids. Nice. Yea, that's the way to show some fucking leadership.

Russell Simmons has done more for the black community than most of those jokers you posted. Al Sharpton, while he may be concerned with image, has always stood up for the black community, albeit sometimes in a rush to judgement.

What the fuck has "Ice-Fucking-Cube" ever done?? Fucking Tupac?? What the fuck did they ever do???

It's sad that you live your life according to rap songs. You're fucking sad.

That's why you haven't made it to the NBA. You think everybody's out to get you. You think that just because your black that everybody's trying to screw you. Wake the fuck up and stop bitching like a little baby!!! And, as long as you keep looking at the world that way, you aint ever going to get nowhere.

Everybody's out to get everbody, regardless of race or color. It's the way the world works. But, you go ahead and bitch. You go ahead and spend all your time being paranoid and missing you chances. Somebody else will take your place and make something out of their opportunities.

And, when that somebody makes it big . . . feel free to call them a Tom all you want. They'll have the money you should've had, and living the dreams you once had.

You pathetic shit.

[O-Factor]

Russel Is a Coke Head and yes he is a TOM because you never go Public against your brother for these Devils can Pick us apart in the Courts.And it is Clear that Sharpton like the Spotlight and fame Fuck Sharpton lets talk about real Leaders David Rice,Ed Poindexter,Huey Newton,Tupac Shakur,Afeni Shakur,Bobby Seale,Tookie Williams,Malcolm X,Ernie Chambers and Ice Cube Those are just a few leaders so learn your facts Pussy!!!

From the great Tupac...

Cops give a damn about a negro? Pull the trigger, kill a nigga, he's a hero.
Give the crack to the kids who the hell cares? One less hungry mouth on the welfare.
First ship 'em dope & let 'em deal the brothers.
Give 'em guns, step back, and watch 'em kill each other.
"It's time to fight back", that's what Huey said.
2 shots in the dark now Huey's dead.
I got love for my brother, but we can never go nowhere
unless we share with each other. We gotta start makin' changes.
Learn to see me as a brother 'stead of 2 distant strangers.
And that's how it's supposed to be.
How can the Devil take a brother if he's close to me?
I'd love to go back to when we played as kids,
but things change, and that's the way it is.


Dude, See Jason Whitlock, PLEASE!!!!! He's the black communitys only savior.

[Extra Stout]

Day Day is right. Clearly the dogfighting ring was actually run by those perfidious Jews, and Vick is just being framed for it.

[Day Day Cartier]

LOL My English is fucked up? Ok But i bet none of you Punk ass Crackers would face Me,Vick or nobody else untill then sit behind these computers and watch child porn and yes the day Whites get exterminated will be a great day and this is clearly a white Website so stay up and burn in hell you racist devils.

[DarkReign]

LOL My English is fucked up? Ok But i bet none of you Punk ass Crackers would face Me,Vick or nobody else untill then sit behind these computers and watch child porn and yes the day Whites get exterminated will be a great day and this is clearly a white Website so stay up and burn in hell you racist devils.

What is the black equivalent of the KKK?

What Hate Group are you associated with again?

You do realise youre a very small, very uneducated and very ignored minority, right?

[samikeyp]

LOL My English is fucked up? Ok But i bet none of you Punk ass Crackers would face Me,Vick or nobody else untill then sit behind these computers and watch child porn and yes the day Whites get exterminated will be a great day and this is clearly a white Website so stay up and burn in hell you racist devils.

Hey now....I only watch adult porn.

Ok and well, maybe the occasional midget in a schoolgirl skirt..but that's it!!

:lmao

[BacktoBasics]

LOL My English is fucked up? Ok But i bet none of you Punk ass Crackers would face Me,Vick or nobody else untill then sit behind these computers and watch child porn and yes the day Whites get exterminated will be a great day and this is clearly a white Website so stay up and burn in hell you racist devils.I'll face you any day. Tell me where you live and I'll go see you. Are there certain ways of kicking your ass that you will find racially acceptable. I.E. do I need to leave my torch and cross at home. What about my giant white man rope and Oak tree.

You're a fucking disgrace to black people. If I were black I'd have killed you a long time ago.

[peewee's lovechild]

LOL My English is fucked up? Ok But i bet none of you Punk ass Crackers would face Me,Vick or nobody else untill then sit behind these computers and watch child porn and yes the day Whites get exterminated will be a great day and this is clearly a white Website so stay up and burn in hell you racist devils.

Do you realize that's what the KKK wanted for all blacks??
Didn't work out for them, won't work out for your hate group either.

So, you lose . . . but I guess you're used to that.

I'll just ignore your dumb ass now . . . you'll get lost in history along with the KKK.

But, it will be funny when I finally go to hell and see you and the KKK hanging out there. You guys will have alot to talk about there.

[Extra Stout]

I'm guessing that if white people ever get exterminated, semi-retarded black guys with MySpace pages won't have much to do with it.

[O-Factor]

LOL My English is fucked up? Ok But i bet none of you Punk ass Crackers would face Me,Vick or nobody else untill then sit behind these computers and watch child porn and yes the day Whites get exterminated will be a great day and this is clearly a white Website so stay up and burn in hell you racist devils.

I not white, but I would tell you to your fucking face, you are an ingnorant son of a bitch. You are right though, some people on here are probably racist and that includes you.

[DarkReign]

I'm guessing that if white people ever get exterminated, semi-retarded black guys with MySpace pages won't have much to do with it.

:lmao

[DarkReign]

LOL My English is fucked up? Ok But i bet none of you Punk ass Crackers would face Me,Vick or nobody else untill then sit behind these computers and watch child porn and yes the day Whites get exterminated will be a great day and this is clearly a white Website so stay up and burn in hell you racist devils.

Hmm, well, once again your ignorance precedes you, moron.

While I am sure the majority of the members here are caucasion, a large percentage are Hispanic and yes, theres even some black folks here too.

Yet, they never encountered this "racism" you seem to experience. Now, is that our fault, or yours, dipshit?

[Day Day Cartier]

:king You will find out!!

[peewee's lovechild]

:king You will find out!!

Oooooooo, we gone done be sacred now.

Woe is me, what is I gonna do??

Whatever.

You're fucked.
The way we Hispanics fuck, we're going to take over the country in 5 years.

Good luck there.

[Extra Stout]

What is the NBPP going to call Hispanics? Are they just ordinary white devils? Diablos blancos? Brown devils? Chupacabras? How does the mother ship tell the difference?

[T Park]

getting back on topic.

Vick pleaded not guilty today :rolleyes

I also noticed hes sans cornrows.

Can't tell me that his lawyer didn't tell him to do that.

[mardigan]

He played the mom card way too early

[Day Day Cartier]

What is the NBPP going to call Hispanics? Are they just ordinary white devils? Diablos blancos? Brown devils? Chupacabras? How does the mother ship tell the difference?
LOL them our people!! Hispanics just like Blacks and They hate you Devils too..So Open up your eyes and quit being ignorant and see whats going on in the world Blacks didnt start this race shit,We lost so many people due to race that its crazy and you expect us just to take shit from the devils hahaha Not Me and i can email you some pics that took place in my city that you will hear about soon on the National news that got me in this kill the Devil mode.. :king

[TLWisfoine]

Russel Is a Coke Head and yes he is a TOM because you never go Public against your brother for these Devils can Pick us apart in the Courts.And it is Clear that Sharpton like the Spotlight and fame Fuck Sharpton lets talk about real Leaders David Rice,Ed Poindexter,Huey Newton,Tupac Shakur,Afeni Shakur,Bobby Seale,Tookie Williams,Malcolm X,Ernie Chambers and Ice Cube Those are just a few leaders so learn your facts Pussy!!!

Please don't use anymore hip hop artists in the same sentence with those leaders. If there is one thing that I hate more than white racists is those negro minstrels who demean our women, and glorify the selling of poison to their own people.

[FromWayDowntown]

Hilarious for someone to insinuate racism from posters who routinely laud men like Tim Duncan, Bruce Bowen, Michael Finley, David Robinson, and Sean Elliott -- to only scratch the surface.

I'm sure they're all Uncle Toms, too.

Dog fighting is simply a hideous act. If Vick is proven guilty, he'll never play in the NFL again because he'll be rotting away, incarcerated. If it's shown that he was aware of the activity but didn't participate, he'll be banned from the NFL for life. In any event, his acts or his associations have certainly ensured that he'll be a much-despised figure for the rest of his public life. Frankly, I'm not sure exactly how one explains away 17 dog corpses and dog fighting equipment on one's property, particularly when it appears that the government has witnesses who can pinpoint specific details. I'm skeptical that Vick will be able to surmount that hurdle in this case.

[mardigan]

He wont get in any trouble
I take it back, he is fucked

[Day Day Cartier]

Please don't use anymore hip hop artists in the same sentence with those leaders. If there is one thing that I hate more than white racists is those negro minstrels who demean our women, and glorify the selling of poison to their own people.
Ok tell me which one of them Rappers Promote drugs or Downgrade women? I hope you not talkin about 2pac Peep his lyrics and Ice Cube peep his Lyrics i dont see young jeezy, 50 cent,The game Or Ti name up there so dont be a critic if you dont know Rap Fam.

[peewee's lovechild]

LOL them our people!! Hispanics just like Blacks and They hate you Devils too..So Open up your eyes and quit being ignorant and see whats going on in the world Blacks didnt start this race shit,We lost so many people due to race that its crazy and you expect us just to take shit from the devils hahaha Not Me and i can email you some pics that took place in my city that you will hear about soon on the National news that got me in this kill the Devil mode.. :king

I'm Hispanic. Straight from Mexico. Don't include me or my people in your bullshit paranoia!!!

I've never asked anyone for anything . . . not whites, not the government, not a fucking soul!!! And, I have every reason to bitch if I want. But, I'm not a pussy. Fuck all that shit. I made a success out of my life without all this cry baby bullshit that you suscribe to.

It's time for you to stop expecting that the world owes you something and do something with your life. Or, just shut the fuck up and get out of the way.

[TLWisfoine]

Hilarious for someone to insinuate racism from posters who routinely laud men like Tim Duncan, Bruce Bowen, Michael Finley, David Robinson, and Sean Elliott -- to only scratch the surface.

Now this is hilarious, even racists can set their hatred aside in order for their favorite team to win, just ask Bill Russell and Jim Brown how people would cheer for them on the field, but off it they were just another negro.

[Dilldoe]

vick will find the real rottweiler

[samikeyp]

Now this is hilarious, even racists can set their hatred aside in order for their favorite team to win, just ask Bill Russell and Jim Brown how people would cheer for them on the field, but off it they were just another negro.


Who are the racists you are referring to? People here?

I have seen people do that. I have seen white people root for black athletes then make ethnic jokes. I have also seen black people root for white athletes and make similar jokes. I have also heard hispanic fans do it toward white and black athletes.

While I agree that it can happen.....FromWayDowntown wasn't using what he said in a racist way nor is he a racist. I can say this because I know him personally and can vouch for his character.

I use David Robinson as an example of how to be on and off the court to the kids who I coach. I have always been a Spurs fan as well as a huge fan of his. Because I use Robinson as an example and he is black and I am white....does that make me a racist?

[TLWisfoine]

While I agree that it can happen.....FromWayDowntown wasn't using what he said in a racist way nor is he a racist. I can say this because I know him personally and can vouch for his character.

I wasnt accusing him of racism, I was just making the point that even though you cheer for an athlete of a different race doesn't mean you are not a racist.


I use David Robinson as an example of how to be on and off the court to the kids who I coach. I have always been a Spurs fan as well as a huge fan of his. Because I use Robinson as an example and he is black and I am white....does that make me a racist?

No, you seem like a pretty cool guy.

[FromWayDowntown]

Now this is hilarious, even racists can set their hatred aside in order for their favorite team to win, just ask Bill Russell and Jim Brown how people would cheer for them on the field, but off it they were just another negro.

It's interesting to me that you're willing to draw broad generalities about people you've never met, based on assumptions about character.

I don't dispute that there are some in our society who would fit the mold that you describe, and I'll admit that any effort on my part to draw some sort of unanimous defense of those who post here is erroneous on that basis. But in my experience here, that hypocrisy is not evident in most of those who post here.

In the end, the Vick case IS NOT about race -- at least with me. If it was Tom Brady or Brett Favre or Troy Aikman or Carson Palmer who was accused of doing precisely the same things, I can assure you that my disdain for him would be identical to the disdain that I hold for Mike Vick. I abhor anyone who associates with those who can be so callous about the lives and welfare of dogs and other animals. I suspect that the same would be true of most who have posted in this thread. Fortunately for all of us -- in the sense that we're not dealing with still another group of abused dogs -- there isn't a parallel case going on involving a prominent white facing similar charges.

Interjecting race into this discussion and presuming that those who are troubled by what has been alleged is somehow only a function of a racist mindset -- and I'm not saying that you in particular are doing this, but it has been a point raised by this thread -- does a disservice to the severity of the charges levied. It's the charges that trouble me, not the identity of the accused.

[DarkReign]

LOL them our people!! Hispanics just like Blacks and They hate you Devils too..So Open up your eyes and quit being ignorant and see whats going on in the world Blacks didnt start this race shit,We lost so many people due to race that its crazy and you expect us just to take shit from the devils hahaha Not Me and i can email you some pics that took place in my city that you will hear about soon on the National news that got me in this kill the Devil mode.. :king

Funny you of all people, using the word "ignorant" to describe anyone else.

Or did you write this while staring into a mirror?

[johnsmith]

I didn't want to click on this thread because I assumed that it was just about all the Vick stuff, and frankly, I've watched enough on it to last a lifetime.

However, thinking that I'd get some of the takes on the entire issue intrigued me enough to click.

What is my reward for said clicking? A bunch of talk about racism??????????


Are you fucking kidding me? Black, white, yellow, red, whatever, the dude killed dogs.

Get a fucking life you reverse racists.

[BacktoBasics]

Hilarious for someone to insinuate racism from posters who routinely laud men like Tim Duncan, Bruce Bowen, Michael Finley, David Robinson, and Sean Elliott -- to only scratch the surface.

I'm sure they're all Uncle Toms, too.

Dog fighting is simply a hideous act. If Vick is proven guilty, he'll never play in the NFL again because he'll be rotting away, incarcerated. If it's shown that he was aware of the activity but didn't participate, he'll be banned from the NFL for life. In any event, his acts or his associations have certainly ensured that he'll be a much-despised figure for the rest of his public life. Frankly, I'm not sure exactly how one explains away 17 dog corpses and dog fighting equipment on one's property, particularly when it appears that the government has witnesses who can pinpoint specific details. I'm skeptical that Vick will be able to surmount that hurdle in this case.The saddest part in all that is that he'll somehow find a way to get away with this because he's a rich athelete with other more richer peoples monies riding on his success and return. Losing Vick would likely equate to losing around a billion dollars.

I could care less if he actually bet on dog fighting and I could care less if actually killed the dogs himself. It was his fucking house on his fucking property with his kennel the he owned and it went on for months if not years. He has to be accountable for what happens in his home. Its not like this was some isolated incident. It was regular practice in his home. I hope they fry this guy like some chicken.

[TLWisfoine]

could care less if he actually bet on dog fighting and I could care less if actually killed the dogs himself. It was his fucking house on his fucking property with his kennel the he owned and it went on for months if not years. He has to be accountable for what happens in his home. Its not like this was some isolated incident. It was regular practice in his home. I hope they fry this guy like some chicken.

To hell with due process, lets hang him!!! :rolleyes

[Extra Stout]

Not to slow down the rush to judgment or anything, but does anybody remember the Calvin Murphy case?

[BacktoBasics]

To hell with due process, lets hang him!!! :rolleyesIts one thing if he didn't actually kill the dogs but it doesn't mean he's absolved of all responsiblity and all that goes on with his house and his kennel and his dogs.

Like I said he'll get off with the whole oh I'm rich and its one of many houses I own I had no idea that my house was the hotbed for gambling on illegal dog fighting then killing dogs and dumping the corpses all through the property and oh I know its my kennel but hey I didn't know this shit was going on. Blah Blah Blah. So you think if he didn't actually kill the dogs he's not responsible of what goes on.

You do know that people get life for murder but never actually pull the trigger don't you.

[samikeyp]

Looks like some of Vick's sponsors are not happy with him.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2951789

[TLWisfoine]

Okay, why are some people trying to blame all of this on hip hop? Im no fan of most hip hop but dog fighting has been around for a very long time, long before hip hop.

[samikeyp]

Okay, why are some people trying to blame all of this on hip hop? Im no fan of most hip hop but dog fighting has been around for a very long time, long before hip hop.

true.

I have never subscribed to the theory of "the music made me do it".

If you do something stupid because of music....you were messed up before you turned it on.

[Extra Stout]

Okay, why are some people trying to blame all of this on hip hop? Im no fan of most hip hop but dog fighting has been around for a very long time, long before hip hop.
Really? I thought those 19th-century hillbillies way out in West Virginia were the OG's. Wrong?

[monosylab1k]

dunno if this was posted but I just saw it this morning. This is a graphic photo of a dog after a dogfight. Just sickening that people allow dogs to do this to each other.

http://www.usanimalprotection.org/gypsy100.jpg

[peewee's lovechild]

dunno if this was posted but I just saw it this morning. This is a graphic photo of a dog after a dogfight. Just sickening that people allow dogs to do this to each other.

http://www.usanimalprotection.org/gypsy100.jpg

Dude, that is just fucked up!!!

I grew up with dogs as pets, and I would kill anyone that did that to my dogs.

[DarkReign]

Okay, why are some people trying to blame all of this on hip hop? Im no fan of most hip hop but dog fighting has been around for a very long time, long before hip hop.

Quite true. I havent seen one post that blamed hip-hop.

[DarkReign]

dunno if this was posted but I just saw it this morning. This is a graphic photo of a dog after a dogfight. Just sickening that people allow dogs to do this to each other.

http://www.usanimalprotection.org/gypsy100.jpg

What the fuck is wrong with people?!

Yeah, this is sooooo comparable to boxing/MMA.

[BeerIsGood!]

Does anyone think Vick is going to play in the NFL again? With Taylor, Vick's personal dog fighting sidekick, singing like a canary this is going to get nasty as hell for Vick.

[Extra Stout]

Does anyone think Vick is going to play in the NFL again? With Taylor, Vick's personal dog fighting sidekick, singing like a canary this is going to get nasty as hell for Vick.
If Vick is convicted, then no, he'll never play in the NFL again.

[BacktoBasics]

I expect Vick to be back. He'll get a fine for allowing it to happen in his home but it'll be tough to lend credibility to low life gamblers and dog killers.

[peewee's lovechild]

I expect Vick to be back. He'll get a fine for allowing it to happen in his home but it'll be tough to lend credibility to low life gamblers and dog killers.

While that may be true . . . . the Feds never lose a case.

He's gone.

[florige]

While that may be true . . . . the Feds never lose a case.

He's gone.


Not if his lawyers can convince the jury that while the house was in his name he had nothing to do with it. As it stands now any jury in the world would probably find him guilty. His lawyers are going to try and portray Vick as a victim in the case who was being used by family members and friends taking advantage of his kindness. But that being said your point make sense due to the fact that you very rarely get a Federal Indictment against you if the Feds don't have a STRONG case against you. If they have pictures, phone calls, witnesses willing to testify, then Vick may be up s*** creek.

[peewee's lovechild]

Not if his lawyers can convince the jury that while the house was in his name he had nothing to do with it. As it stands now any jury in the world would probably find him guilty. His lawyers are going to try and portray Vick as a victim in the case who was being used by family members and friends taking advantage of his kindness. But that being said your point make sense due to the fact that you very rarely get a Federal Indictment against you if the Feds don't have a STRONG case against you. If they have pictures, phone calls, witnesses willing to testify, then Vick may be up s*** creek.

They have to have phone calls and such. And, there isn't a single person in this country that hasn't been exposed to the news out there that's going to have a favorable opinion of him. He's screwed.

[kingsfan]

Unfortunately this has become a racial issue. Atlanta is divided now, and it's getting ugly. Some season ticket holders have asked for their money back if he returns and some if he doesn't. It's a no win situation right now.
He was on the radio this morning apologising to Blank and the fans, teammates etc. but he couldn't talk about anything legally. I just wish it was over but with Taylor singing like a canary, it's going to get worse.

[TLWisfoine]

Quite true. I havent seen one post that blamed hip-hop.

I read a column that Jason Whitlock wrote, blaming it on hip hop, and I've also heard a few people on television take the stance.

[peewee's lovechild]

I read a column that Jason Whitlock wrote, blaming it on hip hop, and I've also heard a few people on television take the stance.

I've never subscribed to the "music made me do it" bullshit, but I used to teach in public school for years. One thing that showed up everyday as true as the sun would rise were kids dressed up like rappers (which I really don't give a shit about). About 85% of the time, they wore shirts with Pitbulls baring all teeth and some rapper in the background.

I even remember seeing a T-shirt of "Lil' Bow-wow" when he was a kid holding on to two leashes of pitbulls ready to attack someone or something.

I'm not saying that rap/hip-hop makes people want to fight pitbulls against each other, but it may glorify it just a bit.

[Jelly]

I expect Vick to be back. He'll get a fine for allowing it to happen in his home but it'll be tough to lend credibility to low life gamblers and dog killers.

such as Vick.
Stick a fork in him.

[florige]

They have to have phone calls and such. And, there isn't a single person in this country that hasn't been exposed to the news out there that's going to have a favorable opinion of him. He's screwed.


I just read this mornig that one of the co-defendent that just pleaded out just stated that Vick was the bankroller for the entire thing. Man I'm anxious to see what kind of argument his attorneys are going to put up.

[peewee's lovechild]

I just read this mornig that one of the co-defendent that just pleaded out just stated that Vick was the bankroller for the entire thing. Man I'm anxious to see what kind of argument his attorneys are going to put up.

And if the Feds have already traced to money to his accounts . . . . he's beyond fucked.

He should've just made a plea bargain.

[DarkReign]

He should've just made a plea bargain.

The opportunity to plea bargain never stops until you are convicted.

I very much expect Vick to plea the case. He stands to gain nothing by going thru with the trial, if he is guilty.

So he pleas, the Fed gets their conviction, Vick doesnt do jail time, but the details of the case are never argued and we, the public, will never know what really happened.

[BacktoBasics]

such as Vick.
Stick a fork in him.Touche

Lastest info has Vicks money directly tied to setting up some large events. Ultimately without his money the events would not have gone off. I really hope they nail this guy.

[florige]

The opportunity to plea bargain never stops until you are convicted.

I very much expect Vick to plea the case. He stands to gain nothing by going thru with the trial, if he is guilty.

So he pleas, the Fed gets their conviction, Vick doesnt do jail time, but the details of the case are never argued and we, the public, will never know what really happened.


He won't do jail time? I thought if the Feds got their conviction you were done anyway? Meaning that you would get jail time. Maybe not the whole 6 years, but at least something....

[Extra Stout]

The opportunity to plea bargain never stops until you are convicted.

I very much expect Vick to plea the case. He stands to gain nothing by going thru with the trial, if he is guilty.

So he pleas, the Fed gets their conviction, Vick doesnt do jail time, but the details of the case are never argued and we, the public, will never know what really happened.
If Vick pleads guilty, his football career is over.

[BeerIsGood!]

The opportunity to plea bargain never stops until you are convicted.

I very much expect Vick to plea the case. He stands to gain nothing by going thru with the trial, if he is guilty.

So he pleas, the Fed gets their conviction, Vick doesnt do jail time, but the details of the case are never argued and we, the public, will never know what really happened.

The opportunity to plea bargain lasts as long as the prosecution has an offer on the table. At this point, I don't know if the prosecution has an offer on the table or ever will have one on the table. It will all revolve around two things: if there are bigger fish than Vick that the prosecution can go after with testimony from Vick, and the confidence the prosecution has in it's witnesses and evidence against Vick.

If Vick is the the big target of the prosecution's case and they feel pretty confident in their evidence and ability to convict (which is what it seems like at this point), then there will not be an offer to Vick and they will use their resources to attempt to take his ass down.

[peewee's lovechild]

The opportunity to plea bargain lasts as long as the prosecution has an offer on the table. At this point, I don't know if the prosecution has an offer on the table or ever will have one on the table. It will all revolve around two things: if there are bigger fish than Vick that the prosecution can go after with testimony from Vick, and the confidence the prosecution has in it's witnesses and evidence against Vick.

If Vick is the the big target of the prosecution's case and they feel pretty confident in their evidence and ability to convict (which is what it seems like at this point), then there will not be an offer to Vick and they will use their resources to attempt to take his ass down.

ESPN's legal analyst said that since they have one of the defendants pleading "guilty", which pretty much means he turned on Vick, the Feds are going to be less willing to strike a deal with Vick.

So, in essence, he's going to be facing some prison time.

[DarkReign]

He won't do jail time? I thought if the Feds got their conviction you were done anyway? Meaning that you would get jail time. Maybe not the whole 6 years, but at least something....

I dont know, to be quite honest. But high profile cases like this...

Like I said, he gains nothing by going to trial IF he has an actual hand in the gambling/dog-fighting. Reason being is that he was indicted by the Feds. Indictments dont hinge upon circumstancial evidence, they have phone records, eye witness testimony, a money trail, etc, etc, etc.

Pleading "not guilty" is a stall tactic. Buys him and his defense some time to haggle a deal, see where they stand, etc.

Ultimately, I expect him to plea to some lesser charges with no jail time and some big-WHOPPING fines only a superstar millionaire could afford. He'll buy his way out of it, but not quite so.

What he stands to gain by pleaing down is obvious. No jail time (potentially, Im guessing) and most importantly, no discovery. Evidence will never be revealed nor argued. Details will never come to light (or at least not in the same capacity). He'll leave himself the most important asset he could possibly hope for at this stage....doubt.

Doubt that he did it. Doubt that he wasnt rail-roaded. Doubt so that the TLWisfoines, RC's Boss and the Day Day Cartiers of the world can always say this was a racist witchhunt and he pleaded so he wouldnt get totally rolled over.

At least, thats how I see it going down. A conviction, yes. Closure, not a chance in hell.

[DarkReign]

If Vick pleads guilty, his football career is over.
That is completely true. No argument here. But the best he can hope for is community support afterword under the assumption that this was a racist prosecutor in a racist country that continues to try and prosecute innocent black men like OJ and Vick.

[DarkReign]

The opportunity to plea bargain lasts as long as the prosecution has an offer on the table. At this point, I don't know if the prosecution has an offer on the table or ever will have one on the table. It will all revolve around two things: if there are bigger fish than Vick that the prosecution can go after with testimony from Vick, and the confidence the prosecution has in it's witnesses and evidence against Vick.

If Vick is the the big target of the prosecution's case and they feel pretty confident in their evidence and ability to convict (which is what it seems like at this point), then there will not be an offer to Vick and they will use their resources to attempt to take his ass down.

Hmmm, good point. I still expect a plea bargain. Money talks, bullshit...you know the rest.

disclaimer: I hope I am wrong IF he is guilty of the crimes he is charged with.

[DarkReign]

Hmmm, good point. I still expect a plea bargain. Money talks, bullshit...you know the rest.

disclaimer: I hope I am wrong IF he is guilty of the crimes he is charged with.

And right on queue....

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

Word is that if the case goes to trial, DeAngelo Hall might be called to testify.

[Obstructed_View]

Alfred plea. Book it.

[FromWayDowntown]

dunno if this was posted but I just saw it this morning. This is a graphic photo of a dog after a dogfight. Just sickening that people allow dogs to do this to each other.

http://www.usanimalprotection.org/gypsy100.jpg

I might be late to the game with this, but HBO's Real Sports has a segment airing this week that deals with dog fighting. It was graphic (though I'm sure not as graphic as it could have been) and alarming, if only because of the complete lack of concern the dog fighters have for the animals -- and not just their own animals, but dogs who are pets and (allegedly) are taken to be used as "sparring partners" for the fighting dogs. The "sparring partners" are usually incapacitated in some way before being thrown into the fight; they showed heartbreaking pictures of a family pet who was used for that purpose and had its mouth taped shut to prevent resistance against the fighting dog; in another story, the kidnapped pet had its hip shattered, presumably by the fighting dog's handler.

I posted it earlier in the thread, but seeing that reminded me of my original thought about dog fighters -- they strike me as the kind of people who get a thrill from watching Russian Roulette, but would never have the balls to actually put the gun to their own heads and pull the trigger.

[TLWisfoine]

We get mad over dog fighting, and yet we support violent sports such as boxing and ultimate fighting?

[FromWayDowntown]

Boxers and ultimate fighting participants have self-determination to enter those events; the dogs do not.

To me, its not just about the violence that is inherent in those events; it's about the degree to which those who have the violence visited upon them can choose whether to participate. The dogs don't have any say in that issue -- frankly, to the extent that they have any "say" at all, it's limited to fight or be executed.

No boxer or MMA fighter ever faces that choice.

Dog fighters seem to speak of the thrill of a fight, but ironically, aren't doing any of the fighting themselves. Frankly, I suspect most of the dog fighters wouldn't stand a chance in a real fight with anyone; they consider themselves tough guys but aren't willing to do anything more than send an innocent proxy in to wage that fight for them.

[DarkReign]

We get mad over dog fighting, and yet we support violent sports such as boxing and ultimate fighting?

Thats the dumbest damn argument anyone can make on this.

Do you think youre the first idiot to come up with that original defense of dog fighting since this Vick case broke?

Youll be in a line among other village idiots who even think for a moment that a comparison between dog fighting and professional boxing/fighting have even the slightest correlation.

Among the (literally) thousands of ways one could argue against such an asinine statement, lets start and end with the most completely obvious.

What is legal? Easy answer.

Which sport(s) draws HUGE pay per view numbers, watched and dissected by millions of people the country over?

If dog fighting were allowed and was showcased on PPV, it would be the last truly alarming signal that we as a society are nothing more than sociopaths under a false sedation called "Civilization" if more than 2000 people ordered it.

-------

The only "sport" I can think of (right now) that even remotely compares to dogfighting is bullfighting.

Yet, the matador is in the ring, putting his life on the line (in a very crude sort of way). While I dont agree with it (nor does the American public at large), the human enters a ring with an enraged animal with nothing more than a cape and a few stabbing swords.

Dogfighting just throws two dogs in a ring, see who limps out last, and the loser gets some torturous death at the hands of some fucking wacko without the basic human emotion called compassion.

[Jelly]

I might be late to the game with this, but HBO's Real Sports has a segment airing this week that deals with dog fighting. It was graphic (though I'm sure not as graphic as it could have been) and alarming, if only because of the complete lack of concern the dog fighters have for the animals -- and not just their own animals, but dogs who are pets and (allegedly) are taken to be used as "sparring partners" for the fighting dogs. The "sparring partners" are usually incapacitated in some way before being thrown into the fight; they showed heartbreaking pictures of a family pet who was used for that purpose and had its mouth taped shut to prevent resistance against the fighting dog; in another story, the kidnapped pet had its hip shattered, presumably by the fighting dog's handler.

.
that just made me want to throw up. I despise Michael Vick and all those like him. yeah, yeah. Not guilty til proven and all that. But we all know he did it. And we all know he'll get off too.

[peewee's lovechild]

Micheal Vick is going to prison.
That's for damned sure now.

It's over for him.
His career is over.

He will be playing football in Canada when he gets out of prison.

[TLWisfoine]

Damn Dark Reign, do you get this passionate over the genocide happening in Darfur, or other atrocities that are against actual human beings, or do you just have a bleeding heart towards those damn dogs?

Secondly, I know those sports are legal and the participants are willing participants, but that doesn't make it any less brutal and gory, and we all sit back watch and enjoy as these men enter the ring with one objective, to bring the other man to his destruction. Not to mention the effects that such sports have on a person later on in life.

[DarkReign]

Damn Dark Reign, do you get this passionate over the genocide happening in Darfur, or other atrocities that are against actual human beings, or do you just have a bleeding heart towards those damn dogs?

Wait, did you just try to change the subject? Vick's case isnt about Darfur. Start a thread in the Political Forum titled "Darfur". Until then, this thread is in the NFL section titled "Falcons' Vick indicted by grand jury".

I'll stay on topic, thanks.


Secondly, I know those sports are legal and the participants are willing participants, but that doesn't make it any less brutal and gory, and we all sit back watch and enjoy as these men enter the ring with one objective, to bring the other man to his destruction. Not to mention the effects that such sports have on a person later on in life.

I started bolding your first sentence, then realized you contradicted yourself at the end.

"...how gory" "...later in life"

Until society allows the "Two men enter, one man leaves" rule, this isnt a comparison. And then, even then, the two combatants are doing it willfully.

So, to make your point for you, for dogfighting to be even remotely compared to human pugilists, the rules would be...

1. Two men enter, one man leaves (no exceptions)
2. The two combatants must have NO VIABLE CHOICE whether or not to participate.

[Obstructed_View]

We get mad over dog fighting, and yet we support violent sports such as boxing and ultimate fighting?
Until boxers and ultimate fighters train for fights by pummeling your kidnapped sister to death, just shut your stupid ass the fuck up.

[Findog]

Is Ron Mexico gonna have to electrocute a bitch?

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1256/1138231275_18b1679b2b_o.jpg

[FromWayDowntown]

Secondly, I know those sports are legal and the participants are willing participants, but that doesn't make it any less brutal and gory, and we all sit back watch and enjoy as these men enter the ring with one objective, to bring the other man to his destruction. Not to mention the effects that such sports have on a person later on in life.

I don't disagree with you about the brutality of any fighting sport -- it's why I generally am uninterested in those sports.

But I can easily draw a distinction between humans who exercise their own self-determination and choose to participate in a combat sport and an animal that has no self-determination and is forced to fight.

As to the effects of such sports on the participants later in life, there's also a marked distinction in the genres. Fighting dogs are generally killed once their fighting days are over -- they're killed in the pit, they're killed by their owners, or they're saved from the owners but euthanized by animal control authorities because they're too dangerous to put up for adoption. Boxers and other humans who participate in fighting sports may spend the rest of their lives in pain or facing other difficulties, but they at least have an opportunity to live -- and to live a life on terms that they chose for themselves, having taken a punishment that they chose to subject themselves to.

As such, I absolutely do not see any viable comparison between boxing and dog fighting.

[TLWisfoine]

Dark Reign: Firstly, I would start a topic about Darfur but it wouldn't get any responses since nobody seems to care about suffering black people. Secondly, how the hell was I contradicting myself? The affects of these sports are two fold, you see the immediate affects of the fight when you see the person all bruised and bloodied up. All you have to do is look at the likes of Ali to see the long term affects. Did that make it through your thick skull, dummy.

FromWayDowntown: I agree with you that there obviously is a difference between choosing to do something dangerous and being forced to do something dangerous. What I'm trying to say here is that I just find it a bit hypocritical for people to condemn one combat sport but cheer for another, and I am not calling you a hypocrite since you expressed your general disintrest in those sports. Also, if the dogs were not to be killed, and it seems to me that is what people are the most angry about, then would it be okay if they just fought each other?