F the Lux Tax Monster

[Marcus Bryant]

Are the Spurs really going to limit themselves due to the fear of the Lux Tax? Unreal. What's worse is how many Spurs fans are willing to accept this.


:greedy

http://www.house.gov/petri/graphics/flatstanley.jpg

[td4mvp3]

Are the Spurs really going to limit themselves due to the fear of the Lux Tax? Unreal. What's worse is how many Spurs fans are willing to accept this.

:greedy
"accept" makes it sound like fans have any sort of choice. buy the ticket or not, no one in the spurs is going to feel much pain. holt's a gazillionaire, buford and pop are millionaires. at worse, they sell the team and still get paid. but hell, if i understand this thing right, if you stay under the thing, you get paid back by folks who went over? tell me who in his right mind would go over that line with questionable results as opposed to sticking under it and going with the strategy that's won four championships? so the team may not repeat, won't be the end of the world and there's always a next year.

[whottt]

I think I'll bandwagon jump to a different team that's better.


Who's the last team to win a title?


Oh shit.

[Marcus Bryant]

Who's the last team to repeat as Champions?

[whottt]

The last team to take a shitty deal out of fear of trading to a divsional rival. I'll pass...because they suck a lot worse than the Spurs right now.


Incidentally...they are also the last team to trade out key pieces of a championship core, and their defense, thus fucking their entire team up, for SuperStar nutriders...one of whom got their entire MLE.

[El_Mago]

Lakers.

[GSH]

Ummm...at the end of the day, it's a business. It's pretty easy for you to say that because these guys already have money, they should piss off millions of dollars to make you happy. Especially since you obviously don't have a realistic grasp of what it means to be in a small media market.

There are a couple of sports franchises in New York (Knicks and Yankees) that haven't "limited themselves" out of fear of the luxury tax. That strategy has really been working for them the last few years, hasn't it? We can really be envious of their lucky fans.

Spurs fans willing to accept it? Yeh...all these idiots have been able to do is put together the best record of any professional franchise in any sport for a decade. How can the fans support a team that has given the city four chances to celebrate a championship, when they haven't had the decency to go into the luxury tax year after year? The fans should put their collective feet down - which will force the organization to change its ways, right?

The Mavs had a payroll that was $14 Million higher than the Spurs last season. That cost Mark Cuban $28 million dollars, and he only got one less trophy than we did in '06-'07. Hardly any difference at all. I'm sure if you had the money, you would piss off $28 Million at the drop of a hat. You should go be a Mavs fan. Cuban won't let the fear of the luxury tax limit anything.

[El_Mago]

Nice reply.

[Marcus Bryant]

If you had a few more seasons of the best triumvirate in the league wouldn't you?

[Mr. Body]

Doing things on the chintzy cheap does seem an odd business for a contender, much less a champion looking to repeat. That's no time to penny pinch, but hey, I've never been a multi-millionaire.

[whottt]

MB is bitter because 3 teams in the entireity of NBA history have more titles, and one team in NBA history has won more than 3 titles in 5 years. Anything less than winning a title every year is unacceptable, and if the owner isn't throwing money at the problem, because that is clearly the solution, he's the worst owner in the league.


Surely you get it...use logic.

[SpursIndonesia]

I'm with MB in this issue, the Spurs are cheap, no other way to sugarcoat it. I actually can accept if the Spurs simply let Scola rot in Spain, waive Butler to make a roster space, but oh no, gotta make the div rival stronger just to save some $. CHEAP !!

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

The pic of the lux tax monster looks kind of familiar.

[El_Mago]

I don't give a fuck if the Spurs are cheap.

They obviously know what they are doing.

If it was not for a Manu foul in game seven against Dallas, we might be going after a 3rd straight title right now.

The Spurs have a certain way they do business.....realize it.

We are in a small market....we don't have Major Corporations throwing dollars at the Spurs....nor do we have an owner that is worth more than 500 million......we have an owner thats worth 83 million or so....chump change when it comes to owners.

I can't belive people bitch and complain when the Spurs have worked wonders under such circumstances and have competed for championships for nearly a decade and have won 4.

All your bitching and complaining about lux tax is not going to change shit....either deal with it or fuck off.....go root the Mavs or the Knicks....see how much their money wins titles....

[MannyIsGod]

:lol

Its like a repeat of last offseaons threads.

So I'll repeat things once again for MB. How are you not accepting it? Are you going to stop giving the Spurs your patronage?

[GSH]

Doing things on the chintzy cheap does seem an odd business for a contender, much less a champion looking to repeat. That's no time to penny pinch, but hey, I've never been a multi-millionaire.

Chintzy cheap? I'm sorry...did I read that right? The Spurs have, what, the 7th highest payroll in the league? More than Miami, who is carrying Shaquille Oneal, Dwayne Wade, and Antoine Walker? More than New Jersey, who is carrying Jason Kidd, Vince Carter, and Richard Jefferson (at about $12 M for RJ)? Hell, the Mavs will still have Micheal Finley and Shawn Bradley on the books this season. Without that, they would even have a lower payroll than us.

I'm sorry, but when their payroll is 7th out of 30 teams, it's kinda hard to make a case for chintzy cheap. I wouldn't think you would have to be a multi-millionaire to figure that one out.

[BeerIsGood!]

I still don't like that trade, but I don't think Scola or Butler will ever be anything great.

Last season there were no options to upgrade other than picking up Elson (which wasn't too much of an upgrade over nothing).

This season there's possibly Udoka, but we'll see. If they go into the season with the current lineup + Mahinmi for Austin they are still the favorites to repeat as far as I'm concerned. That team last year was extremely efficient and gelled into a defensive force. They blew people away in series and in closeout games. They will be the most cohesive team in the NBA on both sides of the ball on opening day with this lineup.

[BeerIsGood!]

Spurs fans are mainly bored with the inactivity, but when you have guys who play together like these do and complement each other this way - there's not much to do. Get a 3 if you can find the right one, but other than that not much else.

[sabar]

There are a couple of sports franchises in New York (Knicks and Yankees) that haven't "limited themselves" out of fear of the luxury tax. That strategy has really been working for them the last few years, hasn't it? We can really be envious of their lucky fans.Except they throw their money at horrible role players and overpay semi-stars. I figure if the Spurs could go over the lux tax, it would help to say throw the MLE at a potentiel Bowen replacement instead of go yet another year with no solution.

Isn't it smarter to be able to give the MLE to Scola/Ime/SF than have nothing? To toss it at a potential PG and dump Beno? You make it sound like the Spurs FO would throw the max at Barnes if we had the Yankees income. I don't think so.

[GSH]

I still don't like that trade, but I don't think Scola or Butler will ever be anything great.

Last season there were no options to upgrade other than picking up Elson (which wasn't too much of an upgrade over nothing).

This season there's possibly Udoka, but we'll see. If they go into the season with the current lineup + Mahinmi for Austin they are still the favorites to repeat as far as I'm concerned. That team last year was extremely efficient and gelled into a defensive force. They blew people away in series and in closeout games. They will be the most cohesive team in the NBA on both sides of the ball on opening day with this lineup.

Damn! Two inteligent posts in a row. Unless some of the old guys lose a step in the offseason, and barring any major injuries, the Spurs are still the team to beat this season.

The only thing I might disagree about is Elson. I still think he is a big improvement over the eunuch we got rid of. (Rasho) Elson has his moments, and he works out OK as a tandem with Oberto. If you TIVO'd any of the finals games, look at the times when Varejao was on the floor. I think Elson handled him substantially better than Oberto, and that was an important match-up in the series.

Elson plays with some heart, which Rasho never did. And he is a fairly smart guy, so I am still hopeful that he will improve this season. But if he just plays on par with last season, he and Oberto are good enough in that spot.

[T Park]

We can stomp our feet all we want, but they are gonna do what they want to.

Wich is why, all this pontificating about "F this" or whatever does us no good.

[El_Mago]

We can stomp our feet all we want, but they are gonna do what they want to.

Wich is why, all this pontificating about "F this" or whatever does us no good.

T-Park, you're one of the main one's that throws those F bombs every other post...especially when it comes to the Spurs front office and Ownership group... :lol

[GSH]

Except they throw their money at horrible role players and overpay semi-stars. I figure if the Spurs could go over the lux tax, it would help to say throw the MLE at a potentiel Bowen replacement instead of go yet another year with no solution.

Isn't it smarter to be able to give the MLE to Scola/Ime/SF than have nothing? To toss it at a potential PG and dump Beno? You make it sound like the Spurs FO would throw the max at Barnes if we had the Yankees income. I don't think so.

I think you're about to see them toss some money at Ime, even if they wind up a little bit over the Lux threshold. So if they didn't throw the money into Scola, there is probably a reason other than "they are just too cheap"...don't you think?

If there was a bargain PG out there, with a legitimate shot at playing meaningful minutes this season, I'm sure the Spurs would bite the bullet. And if someone would trade a promising young project-PG, I'm sure they would deal Beno in a heartbeat. But you know the offers aren't flooding in, and there aren't many bargain PG's to be had. Like it or not, Beno has some skills and he knows the Spurs system. Paying a lux tax match on a player who would likely be no better than Beno just doesn't make sense.

I'm sorry, but you guys just aren't going to make a case for the Spurs being stupidly cheap, when they have the seventh highest payroll in the league and the best record over the last decade. That doesn't fit the definition of cheap, and it sure as hell doesn't fit the definition of stupid.

[El_Mago]

i'm with ya GSH

[SAGambler]

Me too.

While keeping Beno may not set well with a lot of fans, at least he knows the system, and does have some skills. A new PG would take at least a year to get to know the system, and maybe they would like to just hold on to Beno for a worst case scenario, if Tony were to go down.

[Marcus Bryant]

When are the Spurs going to have the window they will have over the next couple of seasons to win multiple championships ever again? Excuse the Spurs making bad personnel moves to reduce their payroll to your heart's content, but now is no time to cut corners, especially when that entails giving away talent to a playoff team in your division.

The Spurs won a title last season without facing Dallas due to the greatest upset in NBA playoff history and with Phoenix being a couple men down for a crucial Game 5. The distance between the Spurs and those two teams is not as great as you might wish. It's certainly not enough to justify putrid moves like giving away a couple of low post scoring bigmen to Houston.

[Marcus Bryant]

I think you're about to see them toss some money at Ime, even if they wind up a little bit over the Lux threshold. So if they didn't throw the money into Scola, there is probably a reason other than "they are just too cheap"...don't you think?

If there was a bargain PG out there, with a legitimate shot at playing meaningful minutes this season, I'm sure the Spurs would bite the bullet. And if someone would trade a promising young project-PG, I'm sure they would deal Beno in a heartbeat. But you know the offers aren't flooding in, and there aren't many bargain PG's to be had. Like it or not, Beno has some skills and he knows the Spurs system. Paying a lux tax match on a player who would likely be no better than Beno just doesn't make sense.

I'm sorry, but you guys just aren't going to make a case for the Spurs being stupidly cheap, when they have the seventh highest payroll in the league and the best record over the last decade. That doesn't fit the definition of cheap, and it sure as hell doesn't fit the definition of stupid.

The offseason isn't over. Anyways, the Spurs have kept Beno around this long because the talent is there even though the spirit might not be. He cost the Spurs $967K last season. Stop the presses.

[spurster]

Are the Spurs really going to limit themselves due to the fear of the Lux Tax? Unreal. What's worse is how many Spurs fans are willing to accept this.


The cheapness/thriftiness of the Spurs has been standard operating procedure since their beginning. Spurs fans don't have experience living any other way.

[td4mvp3]

if that guy's figure of holt being worth $83 mil is true, then the savings from the trade was about 8 percent of holt's worth. for me, that would be more than $2,400 for the year, and i'd bet anyone that they'd be unwilling to let that kind of money go out of their own pocket just to make someone not related by blood happy. someone else's reasoning about new york throwing money to marginal players applies here: butler, to this point, has been marginal, and scola, if houston's need for a power forward are discounted, sounds like a marginal player in the juwan howard mold. plus the fact the spurs actually paid the luxary tax this year and this was the fan reception to their efforts (still calling the team cheap), and if i were an owner, i'd have even more of a reason to ignore the masses and try to amass some dough.

[Solid D]

http://www.knitty.com/issuefall02/images/koolaid2.jpg

The Holt Cat Training Table

[degenerate_gambler]

Chintzy cheap? I'm sorry...did I read that right? The Spurs have, what, the 7th highest payroll in the league? More than Miami, who is carrying Shaquille Oneal, Dwayne Wade, and Antoine Walker? More than New Jersey, who is carrying Jason Kidd, Vince Carter, and Richard Jefferson (at about $12 M for RJ)? Hell, the Mavs will still have Micheal Finley and Shawn Bradley on the books this season. Without that, they would even have a lower payroll than us.

I'm sorry, but when their payroll is 7th out of 30 teams, it's kinda hard to make a case for chintzy cheap. I wouldn't think you would have to be a multi-millionaire to figure that one out.


Well he is the expert, ya know..

[Marcus Bryant]

2006-07 salaries for Spurs whose contracts end after next season:

Brent Barry $5.2 mil
Bruce Bowen $3.8 mil
Robert Horry $3.3 mil
Francisco Elson $3 mil
Michael Finley $2.9 mil
Beno Udrih $1.7 mil (2007-08 salary)

Total $19.9 mil

It's not like the Spurs are locked into their current payroll level for the next 4 to 5 seasons.

[Marcus Bryant]

if that guy's figure of holt being worth $83 mil is true, then the savings from the trade was about 8 percent of holt's worth. for me, that would be more than $2,400 for the year, and i'd bet anyone that they'd be unwilling to let that kind of money go out of their own pocket just to make someone not related by blood happy. someone else's reasoning about new york throwing money to marginal players applies here: butler, to this point, has been marginal, and scola, if houston's need for a power forward are discounted, sounds like a marginal player in the juwan howard mold. plus the fact the spurs actually paid the luxary tax this year and this was the fan reception to their efforts (still calling the team cheap), and if i were an owner, i'd have even more of a reason to ignore the masses and try to amass some dough.


New York has carried those large payrolls because they haven't had the luxury of the league's best player.

[SAGambler]

When are the Spurs going to have the window they will have over the next couple of seasons to win multiple championships ever again? Excuse the Spurs making bad personnel moves to reduce their payroll to your heart's content, but now is no time to cut corners, especially when that entails giving away talent to a playoff team in your division.

The Spurs won a title last season without facing Dallas due to the greatest upset in NBA playoff history and with Phoenix being a couple men down for a crucial Game 5. The distance between the Spurs and those two teams is not as great as you might wish. It's certainly not enough to justify putrid moves like giving away a couple of low post scoring bigmen to Houston.

I don't follow the logic. Giving away a couple of low post scoring bigmen, that the Spurs apparently don't feel they want or need, makes Phoenix and Dallas better how?

[Marcus Bryant]

I don't follow the logic. Giving away a couple of low post scoring bigmen, that the Spurs apparently don't feel they want or need, makes Phoenix and Dallas better how?

The difference between the Spurs and the Mavs/Suns is not that great, so now is no time to give away talent. Giving those players away to a playoff team in your own division isn't that great either.

Fairly clear, I thought.

[degenerate_gambler]

The difference between the Spurs and the Mavs/Suns is not that great, so now is no time to give away talent. Giving those players away to a playoff team in your own division isn't that great either.

Fairly clear, I thought.


No, you were clear...I think the difference lies in the fact that you and others on the board see Butler as a 'talent' and a 'low post scorer' while others view him as a formerly fat, still lazy marginal prospect at best.

[Marcus Bryant]

He wouldn't be the first 'fat, lazy' prospect to turn it around.

Oh, and you forgot Scola.

[Marcus Bryant]

The Spurs have over $20 mil coming off their payroll next summer with Splitter and Mahinmi at $700K each waiting in the wings. How can anyone possibly expect them to spend more?

[Marcus Bryant]

The Holt Cat Training Table

Some are pounding pitchers full.

[whottt]

Talk about spoiled...

[Marcus Bryant]

Yes, the Spurs have been spoiled by Tim Duncan falling into their lap.

[lotr1trekkie]

Peter Holt is majority owner with x number of partners. If you owned a piece of the team would you want the team to LOSE money by paying the Luxury tax. I think most of the ownership group just want to break even. Remember Holt is spending their money too.

[whottt]

If the Spurs don't win a another title for the rest of the Tim Duncan era, they will still have done better than 90% of all other teams in NBA history, in the entire history of those teams, much less a single player defined era. And the teams that have done better, have been just as lucky...moreso. Pout about that.

[Marcus Bryant]

So we should be happy because they didn't totally screw it up.

[Kamnik]

i for one think that Pop+RC know more than a bunch of "all knowing" fans

if they could get something good for Scola-they would!

[whottt]

So we should be happy because they didn't totally screw it up.



It's got nothing to do with them screwing up...more to do with you just wanting Cuban for an owner.

[Marcus Bryant]

How many ownership groups in the NBA would have that much of a problem going over the threshold to surround a player like Tim Duncan with the best possible supporting cast? That's what most Spurs fans don't seem able to grasp.

[whottt]

Sorry...I'm glad the Spurs don't think Butler and Scola are Shaq and Kobe...if you can show me those guys would increase our chances of a title...I might be willing to concede the point...we just won a title with Butler's ass on the bench, and he actually looked like he's regressed from his Knick days in the D-League..good luck proving that point.

And the only thing Scola is going to do is take shots and minutes away from Tim Duncan..without deserving them...I'm not sure how you can rationalize that as helping the team.

[Marcus Bryant]

Duncan rested 14 minutes a night last season. Scola would've been a nice backup.

Hopefully the Spurs dump that worthless Barry soon. $5 mil per? Absolute robbery.

[dbestpro]

i for one think that Pop+RC know more than a bunch of "all knowing" fans

if they could get something good for Scola-they would!

The situation which caused Scola and Butler's value to drop is no one elses fault but the Spurs. The way they handled both players made many teams disregard their value.

A solution could have been to put them both on the team and dump Barry's salary. If they really did not like them as players they should have given them some playing time to showcase them and then trade them to get something of more value back. This is a very old tactic that teams have used in all sports for decades.

[whottt]

Hopefully the Spurs dump that worthless Barry soon. $5 mil per? Absolute robbery.

http://www.joe-ks.com/archives_feb2001/WrongTree.jpg

[GSH]

New York has carried those large payrolls because they haven't had the luxury of the league's best player.

Bullshit. The Knicks have carried those large payrolls because they went out year after year and paid too much for a bunch of questionable, mis-matched talent. They fell in love with guys like Alan Houston and Stephon Marbury and said, "We gotta get this guy in here, even if we have to pay a premium to do it." They looked at individual talent, rather than putting together a cohesive squad. (Isiah Thomas couldn't think his way out of a lab rat maze.) With that huge payroll came huge expectations, which they didn't live up to, and the Knicks became a laughing stock. There are no players willing to "take a little less" and go to the Knicks, because they want to win.

A lot of people here are acting like Scola is a guaranteed franchise player. (One claimed that he will be the "best PF in the NBA this year, next to Tim Duncan".) If that were really the case, and it was that obvious, don't you think that someone would have stepped up and offered him more than $9.3 M over three years? Wouldn't some other team have said, "Screw the luxury tax, we need this guy"? Maybe even offered him enough to make his buyout last season and get on with winning a championship?

The Spurs wanted to get Scola on the roster. They really did. They put a lot of time and thought into it. But in the end, the deal didn't make sense in context. They had the discipline to let go. Isiah Thomas would have closed his eyes and thrown money at the problem.

[Solid D]

http://www.joe-ks.com/archives_feb2001/WrongTree.jpg

:lol @ the picture

[Marcus Bryant]

So the Spurs can just give away talent simply because it isn't talent with superstar potential? That's whottt dumb.

[whottt]

Duncan rested 14 minutes a night last season. Scola would've been a nice backup.


So basically...you think Scola's better than Manu, you know, the guy who runs the team when Duncan is on the bench. Stick to whining...you're better at it.

[whottt]

So the Spurs can just give away talent simply because it isn't talent with superstar potential? That's whottt dumb.


Yes....they can.


The last time you(and the Spurs) went on a SuperStar kick was Jason Kidd...which completely fucked us for the following year. And possibly longer...Leandro...or should I say David?

And how you like Tony Parker now?

[Marcus Bryant]

Bullshit. The Knicks have carried those large payrolls because they went out year after year and paid too much for a bunch of questionable, mis-matched talent. They fell in love with guys like Alan Houston and Stephon Marbury and said, "We gotta get this guy in here, even if we have to pay a premium to do it." They looked at individual talent, rather than putting together a cohesive squad. (Isiah Thomas couldn't think his way out of a lab rat maze.) With that huge payroll came huge expectations, which they didn't live up to, and the Knicks became a laughing stock. There are no players willing to "take a little less" and go to the Knicks, because they want to win.

A lot of people here are acting like Scola is a guaranteed franchise player. (One claimed that he will be the "best PF in the NBA this year, next to Tim Duncan".) If that were really the case, and it was that obvious, don't you think that someone would have stepped up and offered him more than $9.3 M over three years? Wouldn't some other team have said, "Screw the luxury tax, we need this guy"? Maybe even offered him enough to make his buyout last season and get on with winning a championship?

The Spurs wanted to get Scola on the roster. They really did. They put a lot of time and thought into it. But in the end, the deal didn't make sense in context. They had the discipline to let go. Isiah Thomas would have closed his eyes and thrown money at the problem.


Incorrect. The Knicks have carried those large payrolls as they have been in search of the superstar to build the team around.

The Spurs have $20 mil coming off the books next season, so the Knicks comparison isn't even close. Try again.

[Marcus Bryant]

So basically...you think Scola's better than Manu, you know, the guy who runs the team when Duncan is on the bench. Stick to whining...you're better at it.

So what would be wrong with Manu and Scola on the court at the same time?

Damn man, step up your game.

[whottt]

So what would be wrong with Manu and Scola on the court at the same time?

Because I'd rather have someone to start and guard TMac and LeBron than a back up who Pop won't play because he doesn't play D, or rebound.

Guys that can play well with Manu when Duncan is off the court are a dime a dozen...in fact, we already have a roster full of them. Including one that does everything Scola does...and some things he doesn't.

[Marcus Bryant]

Yes....they can.


The last time you(and the Spurs) went on a SuperStar kick was Jason Kidd...which completely fucked us for the following year. And possibly longer...Leandro...or should I say David?

And how you like Tony Parker now?

Kidd and Duncan together for the last 4 seasons would not have 'fucked the Spurs over'.

[ArgSpursFan]

Duncan rested 14 minutes a night last season. Scola would've been a nice backup.


nothing to be worried about.We just signed Bonner for 3 yrs. :rolleyes

[Marcus Bryant]

So what would be wrong with Manu and Scola on the court at the same time?

Because I'd rather have someone to start and guard TMac and LeBron than a back up who Pop won't play because he doesn't play D, or rebound.

Guys that can play well with Manu when Duncan is off the court are a dime a dozen...in fact, we already have a roster full of them.

That makes no sense. Your attempt at obsfuscation has failed. Try again.

[MannyIsGod]

:lmao

If you transpose 08 plan into this years posts by MB bitching about Scola then you have last years ST offseason. How about that 08 plan, MB?

[whottt]

Kidd and Duncan together for the last 4 seasons would not have 'fucked the Spurs over'.

Um...Kidd hasn't even been healthy enough to be on the court 40% of the time the last 4 seasons. I'd rather not pay 20 million a year for that...Isiah.

[whottt]

If MB had his way CWebb and Kidd would be pulling down 40 mil a year annually....and Drob would have finished his career in NY.

[Marcus Bryant]

:lmao

If you transpose 08 plan into this years posts by MB bitching about Scola then you have last years ST offseason. How about that 08 plan, MB?

Ask someone else.

How's Holt's cock taste?

:lmao

[MannyIsGod]

You gonna stop being a fan MB or does ratcheting up your level of bitching meet the requirements of your nonacceptance by Spurs fans?

[Marcus Bryant]

Um...Kidd hasn't even been healthy enough to be on the court 40% of the time the last 4 seasons. I'd rather not pay 20 million a year for that...Isiah.

?

Kidd missed 4 games between the last two seasons. Try arguing without misrepresentation, if you can.

[Marcus Bryant]

You gonna stop being a fan MB or does ratcheting up your level of bitching meet the requirements of your nonacceptance by Spurs fans?

When will you cease posting your opinions on the internets?

[Marcus Bryant]

If MB had his way CWebb and Kidd would be pulling down 40 mil a year annually....and Drob would have finished his career in NY.

If whottt had his way the Spurs would feature Tim Duncan surrounded by 4 perimeter shooting white guys.

[MannyIsGod]

Ask someone else.

How's Holt's cock taste?

:lmaoIts so easy to derail your bitching because I simply point to your track record of off season posts. You complain and complained last year about how cheap the Spurs were and how they weren't doing what it took to win now by saving for some magical 08 plan which many of us told you probably didn't exsist.

Whoops?

I guess they did what they needed to win now and the plan you guys cooked up in your heads isn't exactly there, is it?

I'm not happy with the trade and I think they could have gotten better from it but I see the reasoning for it and I'm not ready to sit here for weeks and bitch about it when the Spurs are in a fine position to repeat without Scola. Yeah, Butler was a nice prospect last year but this year he was deadwood. He didn't pan out for the Spur and I'm not going to cry tears over him leaving.

But yeah, I guess being rational about things must mean I'm all over Holts cock. Nice.

[whottt]

That makes no sense. Your attempt at obsfuscation has failed. Try again.

It's called Roster Slots...and like it or not, there's a thing called a salary cap that limits spending on FA. And now...throwing the MLE at anyone with an on court skill every offseason isn't an intelligent way to maximize the potential of the Duncan era, Mitch.

[Marcus Bryant]

Its so easy to derail your bitching because I simply point to your track record of off season posts. You complain and complained last year about how cheap the Spurs were and how they weren't doing what it took to win now by saving for some magical 08 plan which many of us told you probably didn't exsist.

I'll cease my disagreements with the Spurs' cheapness when you cease complaining about situations you have no control over on the internets.

Also, regarding '08, if the Spurs don't sign anyone else it could very well be in effect. So it might be a bit early to proclaim the death of that.

[Marcus Bryant]

It's called Roster Slots...and like it or not, there's a thing called a salary cap that limits spending on FA. And now...throwing the MLE at anyone with an on court skill every offseason isn't an intelligent way to maximize the potential of the Duncan era, Mitch.

ROFL. So how does that make Scola a bad fit as the Spurs' backup 4?

[MannyIsGod]

No one said you can't disagree and post about it but you're the one throwing down gauntlets to Spurs fans about acceptance. I'm just curious as to what you're defention of non acceptance. Is bitching about it on here enough to qualify me as not being on Holt's cock?

Feel free to bitch day and night Marcus, your bitching of the front office has a ton of credibility behind it as shown by your track record.

[whottt]

?

Kidd missed 4 games between the last two seasons. Try arguing without misrepresentation, if you can.

And how many has he missed the last 4 seasons?

Start by looking at how many he missed the year we failed to sign him.

[Marcus Bryant]

And how many has he missed the last 4 seasons?

Start by looking at how many he missed the year we failed to sign him.

He didn't miss 60% of those games.

[whottt]

ROFL. So how does that make Scola a bad fit as the Spurs' backup 4?


Because he doesn't play D...or rebound, which means he isn't going to get on the court and his trade value will be less than Rasho's.


So you will be paying him for nothing...and that slot could be used for someone else...and we'll have more money under the cap, next season, if we can't get someone by trade or FA this offseason, without he and Butler being here, to have an additional avenue of pursuit if we aren't spending it on him(and Butler)...

[50 cent]

Groundhog Day Forum.

[Marcus Bryant]

No one said you can't disagree and post about it but you're the one throwing down gauntlets to Spurs fans about acceptance. I'm just curious as to what you're defention of non acceptance. Is bitching about it on here enough to qualify me as not being on Holt's cock?

Feel free to bitch day and night Marcus, your bitching of the front office has a ton of credibility behind it as shown by your track record.

The fans will vote with their $ if this team fails to make it back to the top with a Tim Duncan still close to his peak.

[Marcus Bryant]

Groundhog Day Forum.

Indeed. The Trade was great, wasn't it?

[MannyIsGod]

Are you voting with your money? You going to spend less on them this year?

Man, I'm not asking complex questions yet you seem to keep avoiding them. I simply want to know how you're not going to accept this trade. What is that you're going to do?

[whottt]

He didn't miss 60% of those games.


Hey...talk to him about it..he's the one that didn't come...after we traded Leandro, and David Lee....leaving us with Rasho...and Hedo.

[MannyIsGod]

Indeed. The Trade was great, wasn't it?I'm starting to hope the Spurs make more bad trades just to watch you meltdown. I wonder what they'd have to do to make your head explode?

[Solid D]

Hey, y'all quit arguing and let's talk about something positive...like the Spurs draft. :)

[Marcus Bryant]

Are you voting with your money? You going to spend less on them this year?

Already have.



Man, I'm not asking complex questions yet you seem to keep avoiding them. I simply want to know how you're not going to accept this trade. What is that you're going to do?

Anal probe forum.

[Marcus Bryant]

I'm starting to hope the Spurs make more bad trades just to watch you meltdown. I wonder what they'd have to do to make your head explode?

I wonder what the Spurs would have to do in order for you to actually voice an opinion.

[50 cent]

Indeed. The Trade was great, wasn't it?
Why do you continue to follow the Spurs if you hate the front office so much.

You bitch every fucking year about the same shit and the Spurs keep winning titles. You know how the front office operates and it's not going to change no matter how many of these fucking threads you start. Either accept it or go root for the Knicks who have no problem paying the luxury tax yet can't even make the playoffs.

This shit is old. :td

[Solid D]

I heard a guy on the Ticket radio yesterday call in and complain about the worst trade the Spurs have made. No not the Scola and Butler for chaff trade. He was complaining about "that trade of Sam Presti and PJ Carlesimo to Seattle, man... for the rain!"

:lol

[El_Mago]

Why do you continue to follow the Spurs if you hate the front office so much.

You bitch every fucking year about the same shit and the Spurs keep winning titles. You know how the front office operates and it's not going to change no matter how many of these fucking threads you start. Either accept it or go root for the Knicks who have no problem paying the luxury tax yet can't even make the playoffs.

This shit is old. :td

Thankyou

[Marcus Bryant]

Why do you continue to follow the Spurs if you hate the front office so much.

You bitch every fucking year about the same shit and the Spurs keep winning titles. You know how the front office operates and it's not going to change no matter how many of these fucking threads you start. Either accept it or go root for the Knicks who have no problem paying the luxury tax yet can't even make the playoffs.

This shit is old. :td

And you bitch every fucking year when everyone doesn't agree with losing talent for the sake of enriching the ownership group. That's old and boring, to say the least.

When's TP's enshrinement in Springfield, BTW?

[50 cent]

And you bitch every fucking year when everyone doesn't agree with losing talent for the sake of enriching the ownership group. That's old and boring, to say the least.

When's TP's enshrinement in Springfield, BTW?
It will happen way before the Spurs ever go over the luxury tax.

[Big P]

If you had a few more seasons of the best triumvirate in the league wouldn't you?

You got owned...your act is tired...I guess you use this forum to stroke yourself..why dont you go find a Knicks forum, then you can talk about how bad ass it is that your team went $45 mil over the cap for nothing, but its still great that NY doesn't have "cheap" owners...I've never used the "ignore" feature, but something tells me now is the perfect time to use it..I encourage others to do the same, without anyone being able to see the nonsense this douche spills, he wont have any ammo to keep coming up with all this crap.

[Marcus Bryant]

I got "owned" by who? Spurs fans who are unable of separating themselves from blind loyalty to the team to recognize when management has made horrid trades for non-basketball reasons? Yeah right.

PS...I'm glad I ruffled your feathers. That's step 2 on the road to recovery.

[urunobili]

When are the Spurs going to have the window they will have over the next couple of seasons to win multiple championships ever again? Excuse the Spurs making bad personnel moves to reduce their payroll to your heart's content, but now is no time to cut corners, especially when that entails giving away talent to a playoff team in your division.

The Spurs won a title last season without facing Dallas due to the greatest upset in NBA playoff history and with Phoenix being a couple men down for a crucial Game 5. The distance between the Spurs and those two teams is not as great as you might wish. It's certainly not enough to justify putrid moves like giving away a couple of low post scoring bigmen to Houston.

Music to my ears.. i feel exactly the same... :downspin:

[AFBlue]

Hey, y'all quit arguing and let's talk about something positive...like the Spurs draft. :)

:lmao

Nicely done...

[waly.mg]

I´m a Sport Fan, the Luxury Tax is not my business

This year we can pay or not, but Next Year, we are going to pay the Tax

For the 08'09 season we have 50 millions in guaranteed contracts for 6 players

Duncan-Manu-Tony-Bonner-Vaughn-Oberto

We must to resign BB, so 54 millions in 7 players

But Finley-Barry and Horry are in the last year

[Kori Ellis]

It will happen way before the Spurs ever go over the luxury tax.
Umm.. the Spurs went over the luxury tax this season. They are one of only five or six teams in the league paying it.

So, is Tony in the Hall already? :)

[50 cent]

Umm.. the Spurs went over the luxury tax this season. They are one of only five or six teams in the league paying it.

So, is Tony in the Hall already? :)
When I said Tony was in the hall, I meant if he just continues to hold serve until he retires which is obviously not going to be in the next season or 2.

Are you with Marcus on this? Every year, he berates the ownership group for getting rid of players for "non-basketball" reasons when if the Spurs would keep all these bench warmers Marcus thinks are vital to the Spurs success, we wouldn't have been able to sign Parker and Ginobili to extensions.

Everything comes back to basketball success, but this is a business and you can't paint yourself into a corner like the Knicks have done or you will be shitty for a long, long time in the NBA. Fiscal responsibility allows you to make tweaks and stay on top. Sure, you might lose a good prospect here and there and no front office is perfect, but 29 other fans of NBA teams would kill to have the Spurs front office and success.

Bitching about their philosophy every fucking year is just ridiculous and tiresome. It's not going to change so if people like Marcus hate this philosophy so fucking much, they need to go find some other team to root for that matches their fiscal preferences.

[Marcus Bryant]

The Spurs are in the position they are in first and foremost due to Tim Duncan. Cutting corners did not land that lottery pick. They also lucked out in landing a franchise player who was content to play in a small market.

The Spurs almost let the Hall of Famer Parker walk over a couple mil, if not for Pop, of all people, taking internal business to the public.

As for the Knicks, I'm not sure why the front office sycophants of this forum point to them so much. That's what a team looks like when it doesn't have one of the 20 greatest players of all time fall into their lap and is relatively free to make moves to try to land a franchise player.

The Spurs only have a limited amount of Tim Duncan's greatness left. Now is no time to be cheap. Of course, that is if you are about seeing your favorite team win on the court and don't give a shit about their P&L.

As for the 'repetitiveness' of my opinions, it's rather tiresome reading the same drivel from you, again and again. You should be bursting with joy over that absolutely horrid deal the Spurs made, because it saved them a little jack. People like you are static in this forum. Background noise. When you become a basketball fan and not a Spurs cheerleader, let me know.

[50 cent]

Whatever. I'm done wasting bandwidth trying to point out your mindless drivel.

[Marcus Bryant]

Run on home, boy.

[SpursWoman]

I heard a guy on the Ticket radio yesterday call in and complain about the worst trade the Spurs have made. No not the Scola and Butler for chaff trade. He was complaining about "that trade of Sam Presti and PJ Carlesimo to Seattle, man... for the rain!"

:lol


That was good. :lol

[Shelly]

Are the Spurs really going to limit themselves due to the fear of the Lux Tax? Unreal. What's worse is how many Spurs fans are willing to accept this.


:greedy

http://www.house.gov/petri/graphics/flatstanley.jpg


Is that Flat Stanley? :lol

[50 cent]

Run on home, boy.
I'll still be here, I would just rather beat my head up against a wall than try to point out that your bitching year in and year out will never get you anywhere.