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View Full Version : Virginia Tech families want 9/11 payouts



01Snake
07-18-2007, 08:52 AM
WTF is the country coming to when people start expecting handouts or multi-million dollar payouts when someone is killed? Should we be setting up funds for every family effected by some kind of tragedy?



Va. Tech Relatives Seeking Payment
Attorney Says State Should Create a Fund
By Tim Craig
Washington Post Staff Writer
Wednesday, July 18, 2007; B01

RICHMOND, July 17 The families of some of the victims of the Virginia Tech massacre are drawing up plans to ask the state to create a multimillion-dollar fund that would compensate them for their losses and pay for new programs to bolster campus safety across the nation.

Thomas J. Fadoul Jr., a Vienna lawyer who says he represents the relatives of 22 slain students, said the fund should be modeled after the September 11th Victim Compensation Fund, which Congress created in 2001 to distribute more than $7 billion to victims of the terrorist attacks and their relatives.

Fadoul said he is not sure how large the Virginia Tech fund would need to be. But he said the relatives of the 32 slain students and faculty members are entitled to "at least what the 9/11 people got."

The families of those killed Sept. 11, 2001, collected awards averaging $2 million. Payouts for the injured averaged almost $400,000.

Like the recipients of the Sept. 11 funds, the relatives of the Virginia Tech victims probably would give up their right to sue before they could receive a direct payment.

"We think enough money can be raised, much like the 9/11 fund, where the families can be properly taken care of, to the extent they have requirements for health, mental and physical and other financial needs, and there are a lot of them," Fadoul said.

The proposal could be finalized by the relatives as early as Wednesday, but Fadoul said the families still need to reach consensus. He cautioned that their requests could change.

On Monday, the administrator of the $7 million Hokie Spirit Memorial Fund, which Virginia Tech established to receive donations in the days after the April 16 shootings, drew up recommendations for direct payments to the victims.

Kenneth R. Feinberg, who administered the Sept. 11 fund, said he will recommend that the families of those killed at Virginia Tech receive $150,000, and the injured get $25,000 to $75,000.

Feinberg said he would also recommend that anyone who was in Norris Hall, where most of the shootings occurred, receive one year of free tuition or $8,000.

But Fadoul said the families deserve far more money. The relatives also want to create a fund large enough to develop innovative ways to increase campus safety nationwide. They are not sure what form the programs would take.

Fadoul said he and his clients have been discussing their proposal and held a meeting Tuesday night in Charlottesville. He said they could unveil it as early as Wednesday while attending the fourth meeting of the Virginia Tech Review Panel, which is being held at the University of Virginia in Charlottesville.

Fadoul said the relatives would like Gov. Timothy M. Kaine (D) and the General Assembly to establish the fund, as Congress created the Sept. 11 fund.

If the state fails to act, the families may go to the federal government, some of the relatives said Tuesday night.

Kaine, through a spokesman, declined to comment.

Fadoul suggested that the money in the Hokie Spirit Memorial Fund, which the relatives have criticized for being too slow to respond to their needs, be rolled into a new account.

But Feinberg said it is unlikely that the fund, which is to disburse all its money by Nov. 1, could merge with another one.

"If the commonwealth of Virginia wanted to create its own 9/ 11 type fund, that would require a waiver of any right to sue, that is entirely within the province of the commonwealth of Virginia," Feinberg said.
Fadoul said the money for the fund could come from taxpayer contributions and from a fundraising campaign for which the relatives would make personal appeals for donations. It was unclear Tuesday night whether such a fund would be legal, state officials said.
Fadoul argued that the creation of such a fund would keep the state and Virginia Tech from having to face the possibility of lawsuits.
"Litigation is an option, but litigation is where everybody loses," Fadoul said.

A spokesman for the Virginia attorney general's office, which would represent the state and Virginia Tech in any lawsuit, declined to comment.

Congress created the Sept. 11 fund in part to protect the struggling airline industry and government agencies from the threat of lawsuits, said Lloyd Dixon, a senior economist at the Rand Corp.
Ninety-seven percent of the families of attack victims chose the payouts, but at least 80 filed lawsuits.

Dixon said such funds can be beneficial to governments and victims.
"The funds get payments to the victims more quickly than would have happened through the tort system and avoid a lot of legal and other transaction costs," said Dixon, who conducted a study of the compensation received by the victims of Sept. 11.

fatsack
07-18-2007, 08:57 AM
the sense of entitlement in this country has got to stop.

boutons_
07-18-2007, 09:20 AM
The Business of America is Greed.

Sinisterly clever how they confounded their money grab with "and pay for new programs to bolster campus safety across the nation."

TDMVPDPOY
07-18-2007, 09:33 AM
hahahah democracy at its greatest, wait greed

fuck public liability, they should draw a line on that

ALVAREZ6
07-18-2007, 09:34 AM
Please....if the victims could ever find out they'd be disappointed.

Borosai
07-18-2007, 09:38 AM
Hey, I don't blame them. They gotta buy new kids, and they ain't cheap.

Avitus1
07-18-2007, 09:53 AM
Cause money would make it all better....

ALVAREZ6
07-18-2007, 09:55 AM
Cause money would make it all better....If anything, they don't need as much any more. It's 1 less person in the family.


They should be effected emotionally, but that's it. Fucking people demanding money when a kid dies. If a parent dies, that's completely different.

ploto
07-18-2007, 10:29 AM
...are entitled to "at least what the 9/11 people got."

When families who are dealing with loss and tragedy say the things they do, I am more than understanding, but this is just a greedy lawyer looking for a payday and using these people's suffering as a means to try to get it.

Jekka
07-18-2007, 10:30 AM
Kenneth R. Feinberg, who administered the Sept. 11 fund, said he will recommend that the families of those killed at Virginia Tech receive $150,000, and the injured get $25,000 to $75,000.

Victims of crime in Texas can apply for reimbursement for their crime-related expenses from the state up to $75,000 (and something like an extra $75,000 on top of it if life-long debilitating injuries are sustained), so it's not that amount that I think is outrageous so much as the sense of entitlement. I don't know if Virginia has a Crime Victims' Compensation Program and people are just unwilling to use the resources that are already there because they are greedy, or if they really just don't have the program.

I definitely don't think they need as much as 9/11 victims seeing as how to my knowledge none of the people killed were family providers like those in the WTC who needed the benefit of lost wages, etc (correct me if I'm wrong about that, but surely the ratio of dependents to family providers has to be very uneven).

JMarkJohns
07-18-2007, 10:32 AM
They should be effected emotionally, but that's it. Fucking people demanding money when a kid dies. If a parent dies, that's completely different.

It depends on what could have been done to prevent it.

Not saying there could have been anything to be done by the Va Tech campus police, etc... but if it's found something was known and not acted upon, there's certainly a reason for the college, thus the state, to be held responsible financially. At the very least refunding housing, tuition, books and health costs to the families of the injured/dead.

Three years back, my cousin, who was attending college in Michigan, felt ill. He didn't have enough for medical coverage, but he tripped down to the ER anyways. After running a few tests, the hospital concluded there wasn't anything wrong. They released him. After another day, my cousin returned, stating he didn't feel well at all. He was having some difficulties breathing and he felt very, very weak. They ran some more tests, then prepped him for exploratory surgery. While waiting for the procedure to be done, my cousin, 22, died.

My uncle, a retired private practice attorney who had offices in Phoenix, San Francisco and Seattle, filed suit. He later dropped it, determining that no amount of money would save himself from the grief, and that the things purchased with the "blood money" would only stand as a constant reminder of the ER's failings.

I said all that to say this, sometimes people make mistakes. When they do and it costs someone their life, they should be held responsible.

However, sometimes tragedies occur and there's no real blame to be laid anywhere beyond the person who inflicted the pain.

The adults in this case need to stop looking for a monetary way to remember their child's existance and just charish the times that were had.

As far as I know, there's been nothing to indicate the shooter told the school, or that the school found out. Would it have been great for the campus patrol to get to him before 32 were killed? Sure. But I'm not sure it was even possible.

The only people that need to get money, beyond the housing, tuition, books and health costs, are wives/children of somone injured/killed.

peewee's lovechild
07-18-2007, 10:35 AM
Didn't Cho Seung-Hui go on his shooting rampage for this very reason??

PM5K
07-18-2007, 01:35 PM
I guess at least one difference is that victims of 9/11 were mostly adults, a lot of bread winners died that day, while the deaths in VT were kids....

ALVAREZ6
07-18-2007, 01:54 PM
JMJ, that's a sad story, and that would suck for people to fuck up lives in that way.


But in the VT case, the families paid for them to attend a university, but that's just the way things happened. Bad luck. Let's say Tim Duncan suddenly is killed by a Mavs fan, does the Spurs organization have the right to demand money for spending millions on Duncan? No, they paid for the benefits of having Tim on the team and have seen results. The students also were receiving results at VT, getting an education and probably having the best times of their lives at a large university. That sucks that they had to go out that way, I feel really bad for them. It's just another way to look at it.

People can't always beg for money everytime someone dies. People are asking for money over anything, and I'm not saying the VT shootings were nothing, it was a big deal. But pretty soon everyone will be trying to weedle money from organizations.

bdictjames
07-18-2007, 01:58 PM
I guess at least one difference is that victims of 9/11 were mostly adults, a lot of bread winners died that day, while the deaths in VT were kids....
What a stupid statement. They are the future of this nation

JMarkJohns
07-18-2007, 02:01 PM
I agree in the Va Tech case, though I do think the state or university should refund the housing, tuition, books and health costs to the families of those lost. Wehther immediate, like a wife/husband and kids, or immediate extended like parents/guardians.

It's certainly not the kids fault, nor the family's, that they were injured/killed, so they should certainly be treated better than those who weren't involved.

E20
07-18-2007, 02:02 PM
What ever happend to quiet/private mourning?

Shaolin-Style
07-18-2007, 02:07 PM
The business of America is lawyers, which easily translates into greed.

I guarantee you every one of those families were persuaded by legal representatives one way or another to get something out of it for themselves(just let them take a piece of course) Yeah many got talked into going for it but it's hard to argue with a slick bastard who can replace your loved ones with a load of cash.

Summers
07-18-2007, 02:32 PM
What a stupid statement. They are the future of this nation

It's not stupid. The 9/11 fund was set up to help widows raise kids and send them to college. This lawyer in Virginia is just being greedy and taking advantage of these families' grief.

I agree that the sense of entitlement is very sad. My heart aches for anyone who loses a child--I can only imagine--but this lawsuit is bullshit.

Viva Las Espuelas
07-18-2007, 02:37 PM
.....and people wonder why other countries hate us.

LuvBones
07-18-2007, 06:16 PM
It'll be interesting to see how this plays out..

ploto
07-18-2007, 06:44 PM
I think they will probably make claims against the university because they did nothing after the first shooting- close the campus, lock down... and then he came back a second time for his major killing spree. In that arena, they may have a valid case against the university.

Flea
07-18-2007, 08:39 PM
I guess at least one difference is that victims of 9/11 were mostly adults, a lot of bread winners died that day, while the deaths in VT were kids....


I agree but not because kids are less valuable. A lawsuit due to negligence will help recover money that is needed to help support a family that depended on it. Why would I want $$$$ if it was one of my kids? I certaintly can't see myself enjoying any part of it.

TDMVPDPOY
07-19-2007, 12:51 AM
u know who is goin to foot the bill?

taxpayers
families who send there children to vt, risin prices

fuk that lawyer takin advatage of those vunerable

sabar
07-19-2007, 01:01 AM
Screw them, they should be paying us as justice for demanding a payout. They have one less mouth to feed and more disposable income. Plus they don't have to pay for college anymore.

Trainwreck2100
07-19-2007, 01:09 AM
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/06/us/06tech.html?ex=1341374400&en=f3368330fd87aa6a&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss

according to this there is already 6 million bucks to be passed around


Kenneth R. Feinberg, the Washington lawyer who directed the federal program to compensate relatives of victims of the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks, will oversee the distribution of the $7 million that has been donated to Virginia Tech since the campus killings in April, university officials said yesterday.

“There is no script for a tragedy of this magnitude and depth of pain,” the university president, Charles W. Steger, said in a statement. “I am very pleased to have someone of Ken Feinberg’s caliber, experience and long career to help guide us.”

In November 2001, Mr. Feinberg was appointed special master of the September 11th Victim Compensation Fund by John Ashcroft, who was then attorney general. A former chief of staff for Senator Edward M. Kennedy, Democrat of Massachusetts, Mr. Feinberg has experience in mediating complicated compensation disputes, including those that arose over the Agent Orange defoliant used in the Vietnam War and the Dalkon Shield birth control device.

Though Mr. Feinberg’s job will involve the difficult responsibility of assigning monetary values to human lives, he said his new task would be much smaller and less complicated than his work on the Sept. 11 case.

“In some ways, this is familiar territory,” said Mr. Feinberg, who is not being paid for his work. “I will still be dealing with grieving families. I will still be meeting with physically and mentally wounded victims who were shot or who jumped from windows. In that sense, I must say, this assignment is very similar to what I did before.”

For the Sept. 11 victims’ families, he directed an overall payout of more than $7 billion in public money, including 2,675 valid injury claims at an average of about $400,000 a payout and an average payout of about $1.8 million for death claims. All recipients waived their right to sue the airlines and corporations.

In this case, he will handle $7 million in private money on behalf of victims who will not be required to relinquish their right to sue to qualify for money.

Mr. Feinberg said he would begin talking to families immediately. He said he planned to give out a set of proposals about the distributions to the families this month and will establish eligibility criteria by the end of the month. Mr. Feinberg he plans to finish distributing money before Thanksgiving Day, he said.

Three general categories of people will most likely be eligible, he said, families of the 32 victims, about 30 people who were physically injured and an untold number who sustained psychological harm.

Victims may also be eligible for money through a state compensation account for victims of violent crime, university officials said. Mr. Feinberg said such state accounts typically paid $2,500 to $5,000.

Larry Hincker, a university spokesman, said no lawsuits had been filed against the university related to the killings.

After the April 16 shootings, the university has received more than $7 million in unsolicited donations from around the world. Virginia Tech has used the money to establish the Hokie Spirit Memorial Fund, which was placed under the control of the Virginia Tech Foundation.

Approximately $1 million of the total donations has been designated by donors toward specific uses, leaving the balance for general use, including distributions.

The Hokie Spirit Memorial Fund will be closed for donations on Aug. 1, university officials said.

Any money given after that will be directed to the Hokie Spirit Scholarship Fund, a general scholarship account for Virginia Tech students that could be used for others involved in the tragedy.

RuffnReadyOzStyle
07-19-2007, 01:44 AM
.....and people wonder why other countries hate us.

I don't hate you, but I have met people who do.

It isn't about this issue, I can tell you that much. From what these people have said to me, unjustified wars, rigging the WTO and religiously-tied aid funding are more on the hate agenda than whether you choose to make payments to victims of crime.

Personally, on the issue of payments to victims of crime I wonder where you draw the line? Does this mean that every family who has a member murdered should be paid? I have to agree with the majority view that this is a lawyer's cynical money-grab.

nkdlunch
07-19-2007, 02:09 PM
there should be a rule, if your dead family member's body is still recognizable you do not get compensation

Clandestino
07-19-2007, 09:50 PM
the 9/11 people shouldn't have got anything.

the vt people, i believe, have a case... vt didn't do shit even after they knew a shooting went on.. didn't say shit and let him continue on his rampage.. no warnings, nothing...