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NBA Junkie
07-20-2007, 06:02 AM
July 20, 2007 -- THE FBI is investigating an NBA referee who allegedly was betting on basketball games - including ones he was officiating during the past two seasons - as part of an organized-crime probe in the Big Apple, The Post has learned.

The investigation, which began more than a year ago, is zeroing in on blockbuster allegations that the referee was making calls that affected the point spread to guarantee that he - and the hoods who had their hooks in him - cashed in on large bets.

Federal agents are set to arrest the referee and a cadre of mobsters and their associates who lined their pockets, sources said.

"These are dangerous people [the referee] was involved with," a source said.

One source close to the probe counted the number of games on which the ref and his wiseguy buddies scored windfalls in the "double digits."

NBA Commissioner David Stern is aware of the investigation and has a report about the referee on his desk, another source said.

The official, whose name was withheld, allegedly wagered on games during the 2005-06 and 2006-07 NBA seasons.

James Margolin, an FBI spokesman, declined comment on the latest black eye for professional sports.

The sources indicated the referee apparently had a gambling problem, slipped into debt and fell prey to mob thugs.

"That's how he got himself into this predicament" by wagering with mob-connected bookies, one source said.

Professional basketball has remained largely unscathed by allegations of game-fixing, although college basketball has been rocked by several scandals involving point-shaving by players, but not officials.

One of the most recent was a Boston College point-shaving scam arranged in the 1980s by mobster Henry Hill, who bribed several players. Hill later became a government informant, and his life was depicted in the movie "GoodFellas."

Having a referee in their pockets provides a two-fold bonanza to game fixers.

Gamblers would be able to directly cash in by betting on games where they knew the point spread was compromised.

But having a ref in their pocket could prove even more lucrative to crooks in a bookmaking syndicate.

Bookmakers hope to encourage an equal amount of betting on each team and make their money on the "vigorish," which is typically 10 percent of a losing bet.

But armed with the inside information, the bookmaking syndicate could set an artificial point spread that would encourage large "layoff" bets from other bookies carrying too much action on one team, that were likely now to lose.

An FBI organized-crime squad in the bureau's flagship New York office is handling the case, but the referee traveled the country officiating various games on which he allegedly bet.

It was not determined which games were allegedly affected by the referee's actions, or how much money may have been won by him and his cohorts.

The FBI got wind of the scheme while conducting a separate mob investigation.

The most prominent American sport- gambling scandal in recent history involved Cincinnati Reds manager Pete Rose, who was banned from baseball in 1989 for betting on his own team.

Based largely on testimony of two Rose associates, Ron Peters and Paul Janszen, Major League Baseball determined that from 1985 through 1987, Rose bet on baseball, including 52 Reds games in 1987, at a minimum of $10,000 a game.

All of Rose's bets on Cincinnati were to win.

http://www.nypost.com/seven/07202007/news/columnists/nba_in_a_fix_columnists_murray_weiss.htm

naico
07-20-2007, 06:49 AM
mmm..one name comes to mind

FromWayDowntown
07-20-2007, 07:05 AM
We'll see if this story actually plays out.

I don't see that this would be anything to celebrate, though.

The Red Hood
07-20-2007, 07:09 AM
DAMN! I just heard about this one, Its surprising but at the same time its not surprising :depressed

NBA Junkie
07-20-2007, 08:05 AM
We'll see if this story actually plays out.

I don't see that this would be anything to celebrate, though.

Who's celebrating? :rolleyes

Now Sun and Mav fan have more excuses to hide behind!

monosylab1k
07-20-2007, 08:07 AM
Now Sun and Mav fan have more excuses to hide behind!

This extends far beyond the Suns and Mavs, so hopefully this doesn't lead to petty excuse-making for those teams failures.

I guarantee you that this is just the tip of the iceberg. By the time every piece of dirt is dug up, I'm predicting we'll all see David Stern led away in handcuffs.

Findog
07-20-2007, 08:14 AM
mmm..one name comes to mind

As much I would like for it to be Bennett Salvatore, I'm inclined to agree regarding JC. Salvatore's just a fucking moron.

FromWayDowntown
07-20-2007, 08:18 AM
Given how long the investigation has been ongoing -- and I would have to think that the NBA has been consulted to some degree to determine if calls made by this official were in any way dubious -- I would think that the implicated official would NOT be someone with a high profile.

It wouldn't make sense to me that the league would allow a targeted official work in huge games, so I would think that you could immediately discount all 12 officials who worked the Finals: Javie, Callahan, Derosa, Bavetta, Fryer, Salvatore, D. Crawford, Forte, Rush, Clark, Delaney, and Mauer.

I would also think that you could probably discount officials who worked late into the playoffs as well for the same reason, so that would take Tom Washington, Greg Willard, Monty McCutchen, Jack Nies, Sean Corbin, Ron Garretson and those guys out of the picture in my mind.

It also has to be someone who's been in the league for a few years at least -- and someone who can consistently wield some power late in games -- so some of the really young officials would likely seem out of the question.

It will be interesting to see who is the target, if this story has legs.

justanotherspursfan
07-20-2007, 08:20 AM
Now Sun and Mav fan have more excuses to hide behind!
Screw having excuses to hide behind.

If all the news comes out, fans will know for a fact that their team lost X game because it was fucking fixed. If this is for real, this is just an epic disaster for the NBA.

Extra Stout
07-20-2007, 08:21 AM
Maybe JC threw TD out of the game because he had money riding on the Mavs that night.

FromWayDowntown
07-20-2007, 08:24 AM
This extends far beyond the Suns and Mavs, so hopefully this doesn't lead to petty excuse-making for those teams failures.

I guarantee you that this is just the tip of the iceberg. By the time every piece of dirt is dug up, I'm predicting we'll all see David Stern led away in handcuffs.

I disagree with the latter point. I think this is probably an isolated incident. There are too many officials who call the game correctly and consistently for me to believe that there is some widespread conspiracy involving officials fixing games for the league.

Do officials occasionally make calls that favor one team or another? Sure. But I think that is a vestige of some of the old school officials believing that they have a responsibility to keep games competitive and make for interesting endings. If the league truly had a desire to see particular teams win or advance at playoff time, there would be far too much anecdotal evidence of that. It immediately comes to my mind that in 2003, it would have certainly behooved the league to create a Game 7 of Spurs/Lakers, but even with Bavetta and Joey Crawford on the floor, Game 6 of that series in LA was officiated correctly and fairly. For that matter, the Spurs' slog through the series with Phoenix this year strikes me as quite significant evidence against any purported conspiracy.

FromWayDowntown
07-20-2007, 08:25 AM
Maybe JC threw TD out of the game because he had money riding on the Mavs that night.

See, I think Joey Crawford is way too self-absorbed to ever allow himself to take directions from others.

freedom&justice
07-20-2007, 08:39 AM
Maybe JC threw TD out of the game because he had money riding on the Mavs that night.

Joey Crawford is a hot head (and an idiot for trying to take on Tim) but I think he was actually a pretty decent ref. The games he calls that I've seen (primarily Pistons games) have been pretty fair, IMO. And as much as I dislike Salvatore, he's out of the equation as well.

This a huge black eye on the NBA's image regardless of whether or not it was just an isolated incident..which certainly doesn't help erase some fans' perception of bias on the part of some officials. The only good thing about this is that I can see is it will probably prompt a tighter watch on officials' performance and attitude.

VinnyTestesVerde
07-20-2007, 09:16 AM
gawd...que the mavs and suns trolls :bang

mFFL03
07-20-2007, 09:42 AM
wow this is disgusting

but why does this not surprise most NBA fans?

hahaha

the story's main picture on NYpost.com (where the story broke) has the floor of the 06 Finals with a heat logo that can clearly be seen....

TheTicket's morning show emailed Cuban this morning asking for a comment on the story, the reply?

"No Comment"

Come on. Cuban is starting to realize that this league and product is turning sour.

inconvertible
07-20-2007, 10:07 AM
I told you guys(FOR YEARS) the NBA was fixed.....now do you believe me. This is just the beginning.

Switchman
07-20-2007, 10:15 AM
Come on. Cuban is starting to realize that this league and product is turning sour.

Everyone says people are turned off by the thug image of the NBA. Well, we have the Spurs who are the classiest team in the league win, and everyone outside of S.A. hates them and is tired of seeing them win every other year.

Now you have crooked refs.

NBA is struggling.

Oh, Gee!!
07-20-2007, 10:16 AM
Given how long the investigation has been ongoing -- and I would have to think that the NBA has been consulted to some degree to determine if calls made by this official were in any way dubious -- I would think that the implicated official would NOT be someone with a high profile.

It wouldn't make sense to me that the league would allow a targeted official work in huge games, so I would think that you could immediately discount all 12 officials who worked the Finals: Javie, Callahan, Derosa, Bavetta, Fryer, Salvatore, D. Crawford, Forte, Rush, Clark, Delaney, and Mauer.

I would also think that you could probably discount officials who worked late into the playoffs as well for the same reason, so that would take Tom Washington, Greg Willard, Monty McCutchen, Jack Nies, Sean Corbin, Ron Garretson and those guys out of the picture in my mind.

It also has to be someone who's been in the league for a few years at least -- and someone who can consistently wield some power late in games -- so some of the really young officials would likely seem out of the question.

It will be interesting to see who is the target, if this story has legs.

why would the FBI let on that they were investigating a ref? that could potentially screw up their entire investigation, because it would automatically cut off the potential to amass as much damning evidence as they could if the NBA were told and prematurely took a ref out of the rotation. Furthermore, how would the FBI know to trust David Stern or any of the top brass in the NBA? It's possible that if anyone was told by the FBI that they would spoil the investigation by letting the target of the investigation know what was happening. The FBI probably didn't know how high up the food chain the corruption went when it first began its investigation, so why would tell anyone who could have been a potential target?

sribb43
07-20-2007, 10:20 AM
Bennett Salvatore, NBA Finals 2006 game 5, I knew it was rigged

SpursFanFirst
07-20-2007, 10:26 AM
I told you guys(FOR YEARS) the NBA was fixed.....now do you believe me. This is just the beginning.
Wait..."FOR YEARS???" You only have 41 posts. :huh

inconvertible
07-20-2007, 10:42 AM
trust me....for years.

gtownspur
07-20-2007, 10:49 AM
salvatorre is italian...

inconvertible
07-20-2007, 11:26 AM
Kori, if you have evered banned anyone for talking about a rigged NBA. maybe you should.................................

RonMexico
07-20-2007, 12:06 PM
Before I head off to my own Federal indictment, I wanted to drop in and provide the typical Suns fan comment so you guys could go crazy: Obviously, this official is a Spurs fan and told Horry to go ahead and slam Nash into the boards because the series was fixed.

The actual irony is that we know Mike D'Antoni wasn't in on this scheme or else he would have played more than 6 guys in Game 5 and let the refs take care of the rest.

On an even more serious note, FromWayDowntown is WayOff in his analysis because there is NO WAY the FBI is going to waltz into David Stern's office and be like: "one of your officials has huge gambling debts and is in deep with the mob." No, they're going to sit there, gather evidence, ensure that no one else like Stern, Ronnie Nunn, Stu Jackson, etc. is in on the scam and let at least 2 years of game-changing calls take their course. Also, mob guys are very suspicious and if their boy starts getting pulled off huge games like Game 5 of the Finals, then they'll run underground.

Based on the above evidence, it could be any one of the officials, including the big names because the FBI did not want to tip anybody off so they could continue their investigation undetected. Therefore, I think it might be Salvatore because he has made some of the worst calls I've ever seen, is a dumb enough Italian (I'm Italian myself, so I know them when I see them) and some of the best evidence is from the 2006 playoffs in Game 4 of the Suns-Lakers series (Nash gets tied up with Luke Walton's foot out of bounds) and Game 5 Mavs-Heat (Wade drops 900 FTs). Then again, Javie is just greasy and slimy enough to pull this off, too so I don't rule him out.

Lastly, I think Crawford was just a hot-head and not involved in anything, and based on the interactions between Bavetta, the fans, and Barkely, I just see him being a senile old man who gets caught up in the thrill of the game and the roar of the crowd more than a crook. But like I was wrong for letting my family members train pit bulls in a house I rarely ever went to, I could be wrong about this...

G-Money
07-20-2007, 12:10 PM
Like I said I knew somthing was going on with refs in the NBA. I bet its more then one refs too. Like I said in the other thread Violet Pulmer needs to be questioned. Not being sexiest just saying she sucks so bad at being a ref its a little fishy.

RonMexico
07-20-2007, 12:19 PM
Like I said I knew somthing was going on with refs in the NBA. I bet its more then one refs too. Like I said in the other thread Violet Pulmer needs to be questioned. Not being sexiest just saying she sucks so bad at being a ref its a little fishy.

I don't think mobsters trust fat, stupid women with their money.

freedom&justice
07-20-2007, 12:30 PM
Like I said I knew somthing was going on with refs in the NBA. I bet its more then one refs too. Like I said in the other thread Violet Pulmer needs to be questioned. Not being sexiest just saying she sucks so bad at being a ref its a little fishy.

:lol c'mon G$...I don't think Violet Palmer sucks because she's crooked..I think she sucks because she just does.
Anyway, there's only one ref that's prominent for having the distinction of being the guy most NBA teams' fans have an acute distaste for, and that's Bennett Salvatore and his late whistle. But, I think he's in the clear on this one..and...its the NY Post. Why couldn't it have been the Times instead? :madrun

ShackO
07-20-2007, 12:42 PM
fuck me....for years.
:dramaquee

spurscenter
07-20-2007, 01:48 PM
WOW at first I thought it was a joke

WOW

i always think refs control games

FromWayDowntown
07-20-2007, 01:52 PM
On an even more serious note, FromWayDowntown is WayOff in his analysis because there is NO WAY the FBI is going to waltz into David Stern's office and be like: "one of your officials has huge gambling debts and is in deep with the mob." No, they're going to sit there, gather evidence, ensure that no one else like Stern, Ronnie Nunn, Stu Jackson, etc. is in on the scam and let at least 2 years of game-changing calls take their course. Also, mob guys are very suspicious and if their boy starts getting pulled off huge games like Game 5 of the Finals, then they'll run underground.

I see your point and admit that you're right. That got fleshed out earlier with reports that the referee in question is Tim Donaghy, who was calling games into 2nd round of the 2007 playoffs. I'll admit that I was wrong about my initial take.

Oh, Gee!!
07-20-2007, 01:56 PM
I see your point and admit that you're right. That got fleshed out earlier with reports that the referee in question is Tim Donaghy, who was calling games into 2nd round of the 2007 playoffs. I'll admit that I was wrong about my initial take.


I called you out on the same exact point, FWD, so apologize to me too.

P.S. I called you out before Ron Mexico.

P.S.S. Here's my quote:


why would the FBI let on that they were investigating a ref? that could potentially screw up their entire investigation, because it would automatically cut off the potential to amass as much damning evidence as they could if the NBA were told and prematurely took a ref out of the rotation. Furthermore, how would the FBI know to trust David Stern or any of the top brass in the NBA? It's possible that if anyone was told by the FBI that they would spoil the investigation by letting the target of the investigation know what was happening. The FBI probably didn't know how high up the food chain the corruption went when it first began its investigation, so why would tell anyone who could have been a potential target?

spurscenter
07-20-2007, 02:23 PM
MARK CUBAN started the investigation

mFFL03
07-20-2007, 03:12 PM
To all Mavs fans:

The only game I could find so far with Tim Donaghy stench is Game 3 vs Golden State where we got pummeled 109-91.

Flagrant Fouls: None
Technicals: 3 DALLAS ( J Stackhouse 1, J Howard 1, D Harris 1 )
Officials: Dan Crawford , Tim Donaghy , Joe Forte
Attendance: 20,629
Time: 02:34

HHHMMMMMMmmm.....

doesn't make up for the other games, but I think this one is where they destroyed us in the 3-game and just going to the rim....I remember watching this game at a strip club and being so sad....and after the game, being so sad with even less money.....

Findog
07-20-2007, 03:15 PM
To all Mavs fans:

The only game I could find so far with Tim Donaghy stench is Game 3 vs Golden State where we got pummeled 109-91.

Flagrant Fouls: None
Technicals: 3 DALLAS ( J Stackhouse 1, J Howard 1, D Harris 1 )
Officials: Dan Crawford , Tim Donaghy , Joe Forte
Attendance: 20,629
Time: 02:34

HHHMMMMMMmmm.....

doesn't make up for the other games, but I think this one is where they destroyed us in the 3-game and just going to the rim....I remember watching this game at a strip club and being so sad....and after the game, being so sad with even less money.....

Yeah, I went through the 06 playoffs, he didn't work a single game of ours. Just G3 against the Warriors -- and I don't think you can make a case that that one was cooked...BUT...it's going to be very easy for this to raise suspicions and cast aspersions on all aspects of officiating.

SpursDynasty
07-20-2007, 03:26 PM
Guys, guys, guys (Especially you Dallas fans), it says he made calls to AFFECT THE POINT SPREAD. I'm sorry, but one official cannot singlehandedly alter the outcome of a game.

Oh, Gee!!
07-20-2007, 03:28 PM
Guys, guys, guys (Especially you Dallas fans), it says he made calls to AFFECT THE POINT SPREAD. I'm sorry, but one official cannot singlehandedly alter the outcome of a game.


if one foul can alter the outcome, then why couldn't one official?

SpursDynasty
07-20-2007, 03:30 PM
if one foul can alter the outcome, then why couldn't one official?

No, the way a team plays the whole game, affects the outcome.

G-Money
07-20-2007, 03:58 PM
No, the way a team plays the whole game, affects the outcome.


Well not really. A refs can affect it. Say a player is trying to get fouls called on the other team but agressivly going to the basket, the refs doesn't have to call shit if they doesn't want to but then on the other end when your defending they can call you or your whole team for anything, helping the other team to the line and stuff.

mFFL03
07-20-2007, 04:01 PM
Guys, guys, guys (Especially you Dallas fans), it says he made calls to AFFECT THE POINT SPREAD. I'm sorry, but one official cannot singlehandedly alter the outcome of a game.


If you can affect how one team can get a couple of more points against another team, you can essentially help decide the outcome.

It only takes 1 point to beat another team.

Spurs fans care more about if Tim Duncan gets thrown out of a game than this scandal. Whatta Joke

thewatcher
07-20-2007, 04:05 PM
Guys, guys, guys (Especially you Dallas fans), it says he made calls to AFFECT THE POINT SPREAD. I'm sorry, but one official cannot singlehandedly alter the outcome of a game.

:lmao

:donkey

SpursDynasty
07-20-2007, 04:24 PM
If you can affect how one team can get a couple of more points against another team, you can essentially help decide the outcome.

It only takes 1 point to beat another team.

Spurs fans care more about if Tim Duncan gets thrown out of a game than this scandal. Whatta Joke

Doesn't matter. The Spurs are the champs. The Mavs, Suns, Rockets, Jazz, Nuggets, and Lakers were all fake playoff teams this season.

Findog
07-20-2007, 04:29 PM
Doesn't matter. The Spurs are the champs. The Mavs, Suns, Rockets, Jazz, Nuggets, and Lakers were all fake playoff teams this season.

But the Warriors were the real deal, the only equal of the Spurs. Impeccable logic again from SpursDynasty. Lock this thread now that SpursDynasty has weighed in. No further debate or conversation required.

spurscenter
07-20-2007, 04:51 PM
G MONEY THAT SIG iS HILARIOUS

may I steal it?

LEONARD
07-20-2007, 06:25 PM
Guys, guys, guys (Especially you Dallas fans), it says he made calls to AFFECT THE POINT SPREAD. I'm sorry, but one official cannot singlehandedly alter the outcome of a game.

Another genius quote from SpursDynasty!! :lol

Shred
07-20-2007, 06:27 PM
I am shocked--shocked--that there is gambling going on here.

barbacoataco
07-20-2007, 06:49 PM
It seems more and more like our generation is one of cheats and fixes. I am convinced that most athletes in all sports are on performance enhancing drugs. Even if they aren't, you always wonder.

My problem with basketball - college and NBA-- is that the refs really do have a lot of control over the game. The main reason is that basketball is a "no contact" sport by the rules, but in reality there is contact and holding on nearly every play. That gives the refs the ability to call, or not call, a foul almost whenever they want. While this is kind of true in every sport, I think it more so in basketball.

monosylab1k
07-20-2007, 07:16 PM
Doesn't matter. The Spurs are the champs. The Mavs, Suns, Rockets, Jazz, Nuggets, and Lakers were all fake playoff teams this season.
LOL you were on Utah's cock all season long.....and now they're a fake playoff team???

Wild Cobra
07-20-2007, 07:27 PM
If the news break I heard about 30 minutes ago is correct, I wish they could fry this guy. But then I feel that way about anyone who abuses their position for personal gain.

Another link:

FBI probes whether NBA ref bet on games (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070720/ap_on_sp_bk_ne/bkn_betting_probe)


The law enforcement official, who spoke to the AP on Friday on condition of anonymity, said the referee was aware of the investigation and had made arrangements to surrender as early as next week to face charges. The official, who did not identify the referee, is familiar with the investigation but was not authorized to speak publicly about the ongoing investigation.

The law enforcement official said the bets involved thousands of dollars and were made on games during the 2005-2006 and 2006-2007 seasons.

According to the Elias Sports Bureau, Donaghy officiated 68 games in the 2005-06 season and 63 games in 2006-07. He also worked 20 playoff games, including five last season.

nkdlunch
07-20-2007, 07:30 PM
I am 100% sure that fucker reffed Spurs vs. Mavs series last year.

Wild Cobra
07-20-2007, 07:33 PM
I
It only takes 1 point to beat another team.

Yes, but bets are usually placed with point spreads. If a team is favored in a bet by 5-1/2 points, then that team is the winning bet at a six point spread, but the bet loses at a 5 point spread.

This indictment was about organized crime, fixing gambling! I'm sure there are refs in the NFL and baseball getting paid to fix games too!

leroyjenkins
07-20-2007, 08:24 PM
does anyone remember the name of the nba ref who was an ex undercover cop and snitched against the mob? wonder if there is any relation to whats going on. i know it was a long time ago that happened, but just a possible conspiracy theory.

Findog
07-20-2007, 08:38 PM
I am 100% sure that fucker reffed Spurs vs. Mavs series last year.

Already did the research. Alas, he did not. He did however ref Suns-Spurs G3 this year, you know, where the Spurs were shoving Nash around all night long and allowed to do so. The one where they called a foul in the last two minutes with the game decided for a reach-in on Nash, and D'Antoni sarcastically screamed from the bench "Why call it now?" Because a spread needed to be covered, Mike.

DOMINATOR
07-20-2007, 09:11 PM
This indictment was about organized crime, fixing gambling! I'm sure there are refs in the NFL and baseball getting paid to fix games too!
it's ridiculously harder for NFL and MLB... i could see NHL though.
NBA refs can easily change the game by giving a team freethrows... you can't make someone hit in baseball or get a TD in football. in hockey you could give out BS penalties.

jacobdrj
07-20-2007, 09:37 PM
It seems more and more like our generation is one of cheats and fixes. I am convinced that most athletes in all sports are on performance enhancing drugs. Even if they aren't, you always wonder.

My problem with basketball - college and NBA-- is that the refs really do have a lot of control over the game. The main reason is that basketball is a "no contact" sport by the rules, but in reality there is contact and holding on nearly every play. That gives the refs the ability to call, or not call, a foul almost whenever they want. While this is kind of true in every sport, I think it more so in basketball.
Spare me. 1919 MLB World Series...

It is just more publicized now than it was then. The only way to combat this is with consistent vigilance.


The beat goes on, the beat goes on
Drums keep pounding a rhythm to the brain
La de da de dee, la de da de da

Charleston was once the rage, uh huh
History has turned the page, uh huh
The miniskirt's the current thing, uh huh
Teeny bopper is our newborn king, uh huh

The beat goes on, the beat goes on
Drums keep pounding a rhythm to the brain
La de da de dee, la de da de da

The grocery store's the supermart, uh huh.
Little girls still break their hearts, uh huh.
And men still keep on marching off to war
Electrically they keep a baseball score

The beat goes on, the beat goes on
Drums keep pounding a rhythm to the brain
La de da de dee, la de da de da

Grandmas sit in chairs and reminisce
Boys keep chasing girls to get a kiss
The cars keep going faster all the time
Bums still cry, "Hey buddy, have you got a dime"

The beat goes on, the beat goes on
Drums keep pounding a rhythm to the brain
La de da de dee, la de da de da

And the beat goes on, yes the beat goes on...

Vinnie_Johnson
07-20-2007, 10:05 PM
Rasheed Wallace not a fan of accused referee Donaghy
Posted by Justin Rogers July 20, 2007 15:53PM

Remember several years ago when Rasheed Wallace got suspended for a week for threatening an NBA referee in the parking lot after a game? Well it turns out that was Tim Donaghy, the official under investigation for point shaving.

SpursDynasty
07-20-2007, 10:19 PM
Well, at least he did not ref the NBA Finals. Which means the Cavs had a fair shot at winning, but didn't. It's the "James Era", right NBA.com?

SpursDynasty
07-20-2007, 10:20 PM
LOL you were on Utah's cock all season long.....and now they're a fake playoff team???

I was not on any team's cock, I just had high respect for Utah for not playing scared vs. Dallas this year (which all teams except Utah, GS, Phoenix, and SA did, which is why Dallas got 67 wins)

They lost my respect though when they put on the worst WCF performance since Minnesota in 2004.

MWILL
07-20-2007, 10:37 PM
Well with everything said.. Ya think we'll have instant reply on foul calls? :smchode:

Shred
07-20-2007, 10:40 PM
Donaghy was ref for Game 3 of the WC Semis (Spurs 108 Suns 101).

duncan228
07-20-2007, 10:46 PM
Stern's statement:

http://www.nba.com/news/stern_statement_070720.html

NBA Commissioner David Stern Statement

NEW YORK, July 20, 2007 – NBA Commissioner David Stern has issued the following statement:
"As we previously stated, we have been cooperating with the FBI in their investigation of allegations that a single NBA referee bet on NBA games that he officiated. As part of that cooperation, we were asked by the Government not to comment about the investigation, but in light of the widespread press coverage and the naming of the referee, Tim Donaghy, we consider it appropriate to make a fuller statement.

"We would like to assure our fans that no amount of effort, time or personnel is being spared to assist in this investigation, to bring to justice an individual who has betrayed the most sacred trust in professional sports, and to take the necessary steps to protect against this ever happening again. We will have more to say at a press conference that will be scheduled for next week."

spurscenter
07-20-2007, 11:32 PM
Rasheed Wallace not a fan of accused referee Donaghy
Posted by Justin Rogers July 20, 2007 15:53PM

Remember several years ago when Rasheed Wallace got suspended for a week for threatening an NBA referee in the parking lot after a game? Well it turns out that was Tim Donaghy, the official under investigation for point shaving.

January 26, 2003, ESPN.com: Then, about an hour after the game, Wallace was speaking with Memphis guard Brevin Knight and signing autographs for an acquaintance of Knight's when Wall, Donaghy and Steve Javie, the third ref, came walking past on the way to their car.

According to a source, Wallace shouted at Donaghy, "That was a bull---- call and technical, and I'm gonna get my money back," referring to the fine players receive for getting T'd up.

Donaghy then, according to the source, shouted back, "Watch the tape."

At this point, things get a little murky. Wallace then apparently took some steps toward Donaghy, and, a source says, said, "No, you watch the tape," and cursed at Donaghy. What is also unclear -- and very important, obviously -- is whether Donaghy cursed back at Wallace, or merely repeated what he'd already said, or didn't say anything. No one I spoke with disputes, though, that Wallace reacted by raising his arms -- as if to throw a punch, the league believes; with no malice toward Donaghy intended or planned, Wallace's people believe -- and moving toward Donaghy, who moved toward Wallace. Another source contends that Wallace then yelled at Donaghy, "I'm gonna kick your ass, punk-ass mother-----," and that the league viewed this as prima facie evidence of a threat against the official -- the major reason for the seven-game suspension.

Needless to say, I don't think a sympathy card will be in the mail anytime soon.

Thanks Bishopdon for reminding me about this story.

freedom&justice
07-21-2007, 07:20 AM
Rasheed Wallace not a fan of accused referee Donaghy
Posted by Justin Rogers July 20, 2007 15:53PM

Remember several years ago when Rasheed Wallace got suspended for a week for threatening an NBA referee in the parking lot after a game? Well it turns out that was Tim Donaghy, the official under investigation for point shaving.

:lol I doubt Sheed's a fan of any ref. Anyone remember who the guy that T'd Sheed up for looking at him was?

freedom&justice
07-21-2007, 08:37 AM
Crisis of character
Gambling scandal cuts to heart of league's integrity
Posted: Friday July 20, 2007 7:04PM; Updated: Saturday July 21, 2007 2:18AM

And the NBA is facing possibly its worst crisis in history.

"I never would have believed that this would happen," says Mark Madsen, the player representative of the Minnesota Timberwolves. "It's tragic. I never thought I'd be hearing this in 100 years, about any official in any sport." :dizzy

But it has happened. Sometime next week, referee Tim Donaghy, lowly regarded as a whistle-blower in some circles but qualified enough (in the NBA's view) to work postseason games, will reportedly surrender to the FBI to face charges that he conspired to make calls that would affect the point spread of games. Donaghy, 40, a 13-year veteran who officiated five playoff games in 2007, allegedly had a gambling problem that landed him in financial difficulty, according to the New York Post, which broke the Donaghy story on its front pages on Friday. Said one league source with ties to Philadelphia (Donaghy is one of four NBA refs who graduated from Philadelphia's Cardinal O'Hara High School and he still lives in the Quaker City suburbs): "When I heard that a referee was in trouble with gambling, I knew right away it was Donaghy."

Donaghy, who was on duty the night of the infamous Nov. 19, 2004 brawl at the Palace of Auburn Hills, has made no comment. NBA officials have been similarly close-mouthed, saying that the FBI has asked them not to speak. Calls to half a dozen referees went unreturned.

But when Commissioner David Stern does talk, he will have to answer this: If others knew that Donaghy was a gambler, why didn't the NBA? Good question.

In a bit of irony that is no doubt souring Stern's innards, the story broke as the NBA was working out its star-spangled troops in Las Vegas, which is also the site of the Olympic qualifier. Years ago, Stern looked upon Vegas as a modern-day Gomorrah -- best left ignored because of its ties to gambling. That has changed. Though Stern still expresses reservations about a Vegas-based NBA franchise, the 2007 All-Star Game was staged here, and now that is followed by the Olympic event, which USA Basketball, headed by former Phoenix Suns owner Jerry Colangelo, lobbied for. One of the league's most prominent ownership teams, the Sacramento Kings' Maloof brothers, Gavin and Joseph, own a Vegas hotel (the Palms) where players and coaches stayed during All-Star Weekend.

Beyond the issue of the ref's alleged gambling, and whether or not the NBA knew about it, the baby-faced Donaghy is no stranger to trouble. In January, 2005, his next-door neighbors in Chester County sued him for harassment and invasion of privacy for a pattern of discord that had reportedly gone on for several years. Peter and Lisa Mansueto claimed that Donaghy vandalized their property and stalked them, even to the point of following Mrs. Mansueto around Radley Run Country Club, where Donaghy and the Mansuetos were members. After an internal investigation, Donaghy was suspended from Radley Run for the summer and early fall of 2004. The suit also alleged that Donaghy set fire to the Mansuetos' tractor and crashed their golf cart into a ravine. :nope

Efforts to reach the Mansuetos to confirmt the disposition of the lawsuit were unsuccessful as of 6 p.m. on Friday. Donaghy has since sold his house and moved to Bradenton, Fla.

Donaghy is the least-regarded of the Cardinal O'Hara foursome, which also includes Joey Crawford, Mike Callahan and Ed Malloy. One NBA coach called him "absolutely the worst referee in the league" but others were kinder. "I'd put him about in the middle," said another coach, requesting anonymity. "Then again, it's a large and undistinguished middle."

Donaghy's competence, or lack thereof, doesn't prove or disprove that he was making crooked calls. But now, as Madsen says, "Every player is going to try to remember their games that he worked. If there were any close games or late calls, players are definitely going to think about that. This is bad."

Though it was obscured by the subsequent riot in the stands between members of the Indiana Pacers and Pistons fans, Donaghy's work on Nov. 19 at the Palace would've earned him no commendation from the league office. He and Ronnie Garretson, the two senior officials, did little to defuse the situation after Detroit's Ben Wallace threw a punch at Indiana's Ron Artest. Artest then went and sprawled on the scorer's table, after which a cup of beer was tossed at him after which all hell broke loose.

Donaghy was also on the crew that worked a game in Sacramento on the April 2004 night that Shaquille O'Neal (then of the Los Angeles Lakers) claimed the outcome was "predetermined" after a 102-85 skunking by the Kings. Then again, Vlade Divac, an inventive flopper then playing for the Kings, always brought out Shaq's angry side.

In January 2003, Donaghy and Rasheed Wallace, then with the Portland Trail Blazers, got into a postgame shouting match on the loading dock of the Rose Garden in Portland. Wallace had been upset with some of Donaghy's calls during the game. Again, that proves nothing since at one time or another 'Sheed, now a Detroit Piston, is upset with everyone's calls. But officials are not supposed to get into offcourt shouting matches with players.

Donaghy, who is about 5-foot-7, looks like a junior-high kid staring up at the players he officiates. He does not have the bulldog demeanor of a Crawford (no one does), but a former friend of his said he was highly aggressive. "Tim was an unbelievable athlete, a hard-driving kid, very determined," said Scott Newman, the editorial sales director for Bloomberg North America, who grew up playing basketball in Philly with Donaghy. "He always wanted to be the best. He was a little guy who got the most out of what he had. He was very passionate about what he did."

That's one way to put it. The league source close to Philly put it this way: "He's the kind of guy who is always in fights. When he was a kid, you'd see him throwing rocks at cars. He's just an asshole. No one likes the guy. He's always in fights on the golf course, that kind of thing. He's a very antagonistic guy. When you have too many enemies, one of them comes back to bite you.''

Obviously, this scandal isn't just about something coming back at Donaghy. It cuts to the heart of a league that struggles with public perception even in the best of times.

"Even though it might be only one guy, it doesn't matter," said an NBA coach. "If you're a fan, you're going to walk out after a game wondering."

Questions about point spreads are prevalent among casual fans even though, within the NBA, the subject doesn't come up all that much. I can attest to that --I just don't hear much conversation about it. (Then again, I'm not a gambling man.) "Things happen too fast in this league to worry about whether you're up two points or 10 points," said one NBA coach. "I don't know how one referee blowing one whistle could have that big of an impact."

But don't think gamblers aren't aware of who's wearing the striped shirt. A Web site known as COVERS.com tabulates how individual refs perform vis-เ-vis the over-under in every game. In case you're interested -- and now you are -- Tim Donaghy finished third for the 2006-07 season.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/jack_mccallum/07/20/ref.scandal/1.html

ATRAIN
07-21-2007, 08:51 AM
Donaghy was ref for Game 3 of the WC Semis (Spurs 108 Suns 101).


great more fuel for suns fans to cry about......1 game isnt 6!! YOU LOST!!!

spurscenter
07-21-2007, 05:52 PM
Courting danger

NBA behemoths don't faze ref Bob Delaney. They're not the mob.

By DAVE SCHEIBER
Published October 31, 2006
ADVERTISEMENT
photo
[Times photo: Dirk Shadd]
Bob Delaney, a 20-year NBA referee, doesn't tremble when facing down 7-footers. He's hardened from his years undercover infiltrating the mob.
Part Two: An inside job

BRADENTON -- Even from a distance, you can pick him out in a heartbeat. Inside the crowded basketball gym where he runs his referee school, the man with the black NBA polo shirt, matching black sweats and stylishly slicked-back graying hair has his gaze fixed on the mob in motion - young hotshot players and student officials racing up and down the hardwood.

Right away, you realize Bob Delaney is considerably taller than he looks on national TV when he's maintaining order alongside the likes of Shaquille O'Neal, Kobe Bryant and so many towering pro players.

The 20-year veteran of countless NBA battles - a respected crew chief known for his hard-nosed, fearless style - stands 6 feet 1 with an athletic, 188-pound physique that most 55-year-old men would envy. There is also a distinctive presence about him, emanating from his streetwise New Jersey accent and calm blue eyes that have stared into much worse than the frequent glares of angry multimillionaire players and coaches.

On this morning, the Bradenton resident can be found courtside by a yellow 20-foot scaffold. It is the final session of an intensive, four-day program of his Officiating Academy in IMG's spacious basketball gymnasium, part of the sprawling Nick Bollettieri sports complex that is home turf to such marquee athletes as tennis player Maria Sharapova and golfer Paula Creamer.

He is busy talking into a miniature mike attached to a long wire that winds its way to a video camera high above the fast-paced action. All his comments and insights are recorded, so graduates can return to their referee jobs in high school, college and the pros with a personalized DVD critique from the master.

"Very good, very good," Delaney, head of IMG's entire sports officiating program, says encouragingly into the mike when one of his pupils makes a proper call. "But I wouldn't get into a big smiling thing about it. You don't want to be smiling when you're making a call, as if it's a joke. This is business."

In another lifetime, long before he entertained thoughts of becoming an NBA referee, Delaney blew the whistle in a considerably different kind of business.

And he worked with a far different type of wire.

He wore one.

A game of life and death

There were no jocks in this world, except the one he put on to hide the tiny tape recorder inside the plastic cup, and the second jockstrap he would wear over that as an added precaution. One wire ran from the recorder up the side of his body under an arm, the other he pulled through the inside of his pants pocket so he could easily activate the record button.

You see, for nearly three years in the 1970s, Bob Delaney was Bobby Covert, an undercover cop for the New Jersey State Police on a special mission: infiltrate the mob.

His 21/2-year investigation of large organized crime families in New Jersey and Philadelphia, at a time when the mob was at the height of its power in America, could have been straight out of the Sopranos. Amid rumors that he had gone bad, he literally disappeared from the force to work with the state police and FBI. He became the fake president of a fake trucking company with a fake rap sheet. And gradually, he earned the trust of some of the most ruthless criminals in the Northeast.

In that realm, it was Delaney's ability to blend in, not stand out, that made him so successful. It kept him alive when one slip would have meant a bullet to the head. And the experience ultimately led to his future in the NBA and the heights he has achieved there.

Most stories about sports figures at the top of their games require a look at formative athletic moments and impressive stats in high school, college, the pros. In this one, the stat that mattered most was 30 - the number of indictments brought against members of the Genovese and Bruno crime families, the result of Delaney's undercover duty.

Most such stories involve the names of big sporting influences along the way. In this one, the high-profile moniker is Donnie Brasco - the alias used by fellow undercover cop Joe Pistone, whose story was made into the 1997 movie Donnie Brasco, starring Johnny Depp and Al Pacino. Delaney and Pistone crossed paths in a tense episode during the course of their investigations, and neither had any idea the other was actually with law enforcement.

"Myself and another undercover went to a sit-down to help mediate this beef with another family and Bobby was there," says Pistone, who spent six years in New York City infiltrating the Bonanno crime family. "He was very convincing. I was impressed, because if he loses the beef, he ends up dead."

Delaney's story is a study of a man forever changed by the hazardous duty of his early 20s, how he grappled with the unexpected psychological burden of living two lives simultaneously, how he refused to let fear hold him back in bitterness or seclusion in the years after.

And how the intimidation tactics he faces on an NBA court don't faze him in the slightest.

"Nothing," Delaney says with a half smile on his made-for-Hollywood face, "compares to what I lived through."



The making of an undercover cop

He grew up tough and confident in an Irish-Italian working class neighborhood in Paterson, N.J. And though he loved playing basketball, police work was always in the back of his mind.

His father, Robert Delaney, was a distinguished 30-year veteran of the New Jersey state trooper force and a captain in the 1970s. Back then, the agency not only patrolled the highways in uniform but sent a large number of officers into the field in plain clothes to do all manner of crime-fighting - from narcotics to murder investigations to busting up mob activity.

Delaney was a basketball standout for three years at Jersey City College but left before his senior year to join the state police in 1973. "My dad gave me my badge," he says. "It was a great moment that you remember your whole life."

Just 21, and with such a strong trooper background, Delaney seemed to have a terrific future. He was partnered with a veteran who had seen about everything on the job, Bob Scott, and was assigned to the rural area of Flemington, where there was no local police department. They lived with other troopers in a barracks, 15 days on, 15 days off.

"I had just come off turnpike duty when Bobby came in as a young recruit," Scott, now retired, says. "He was a big, tall, handsome, tough kid and very energetic. I made a lot of arrests as a trooper and I liked Bobby because he was a go-getter. I just took him under my wing and tried to teach him."

Much of their work dealt with domestic disputes, drunken drivers, bar fights and break-ins in six different townships. To stay in shape, Delaney worked as a referee at junior varsity and community basketball games. Three months into the job, Delaney experienced something that opened his eyes to a gut-wrenching facet of the work. He was called in to investigate the disappearance of a 16-year-old girl from her family's farm. He and Scott eventually discovered her sexually mutilated body - a crime later attributed to a man who had stopped to tell her one of her cows had gotten loose.

"For a 21-year-old kid, all of a sudden reality sets in," he says. "You realize there are some bad people in this world, and the bad can be really bad. So my understanding of victimology started at that point, and so did my understanding of bad guys."

A month later, another important lesson: He was called to investigate a break-in that occurred days after the homeowner was killed by a drunken driver. Delaney thought he had done a good job scrutinizing the scene, only to watch a senior detective find the case-breaking clue - paint chips on the fence that had been brushed by the getaway car. The thieves, having read the obituary, robbed the house during the funeral. "That reinforced how bad some people are," he says. "But it also reinforced to me the importance of attention to detail."

His big challenge came after one year on the job. The state police had joined forces with the FBI to embark on a six-month investigation of organized crime on the Jersey waterfront. Project Alpha would involve five undercover agents, three from the FBI, two from the state police.

Delaney was approached by a trooper sergeant, Jack Liddy. "He just walks over and says, 'You ever think of working undercover, I want to talk to you. If you ever tell anybody I'm talking to you, you won't have a shot at this job.' "

The young cop wanted in.



Attending your own funeral

A clandestine meeting at a diner followed, and soon the competition for one of the two trooper spots was heating up. And Delaney, with his poise, people skills and knowledge of the state, looked good.

There was one last step in the process, however: a meeting with the major in charge of the project. It was set for noon, but hours before the session, Liddy told Delaney it had been pushed to 2. So the sergeant took the candidate to lunch. "As soon as we hit the restaurant, Jack says, 'Whaddya want to do kid, eat it or drink it?' " Delaney recalls. "I say, 'Whatever you do boss.' So we go to the bar and he puts like three beers in me. And pretty soon, he says, 'Okay, let's go see the major.' "

Delaney had a fairly decent buzz on as he sat down for the meeting. It began badly. The major expressed concern that Delaney's father was a state police captain and there might be heat from the union if his son went undercover on a highly dangerous assignment.

"I got my back up a little," recalls Delaney. "I said, 'Excuse me sir, I've never asked for anything because my father is in the outfit, but I sure don't want to be held back because of it. If that's the case, maybe you're telling me I need to go find another job.' "

Delaney had passed the final exam he didn't even realize he was taking. The major liked the moxie the kid displayed in standing up to him. Further, Delaney learned that the meeting had been scheduled for 2 p.m. all along. His superiors just wanted to see how he would handle himself in a high-pressure situation under the influence of alcohol - a spot he would constantly find himself in with the mob.

Soon after, a car arrived in the middle of the night at the station house where Delaney and other troopers lived. He slipped out and left in the car, while another trooper went in and removed his uniforms. The next day, April 9, 1975, a personnel order was issued stating that Delaney had resigned.

Aside from those involved in Project Alpha, only Delaney's parents and sister knew the truth. His mentor and partner, Scott, had been away for the week and returned to the barracks to hear the stunning news. "Somebody said, 'Did you hear about Delaney?' " Scott recalls. "I said, 'No, what happened?' And they said that he and a buddy went to Florida and got arrested for murder. I could picture Bobby - he didn't take any s--- from anybody and maybe somebody gave him some. I felt really bad about it."

Other stories swirled: he'd gotten jammed up in a criminal investigation, he had smacked a woman around, he'd gotten into drugs confiscated on busts. His parents stopped going to state police functions because of all the whispering.

Scott talked it over with his wife, Fran. Though they had four small children and lived on a modest trooper's salary, they would offer all their savings to Delaney to help him out. Scott called Delaney's father. To his shock, Delaney answered.

"I thought he'd be in jail in Florida," he says. "But I told him I wanted to help him out, and that I'd go to Florida to serve as a character reference in court - even though that probably would have gotten me fired for breaking the state police rules."

To Scott's dismay, Delaney barely reacted.

"He just said, 'Okay, thanks a lot. I'll see you.' And he hung up," says Scott. "I had just offered him my life. I never heard from him. He never called back. And I never could figure it out."

For Delaney, having to stay mum with Scott was torture. He couldn't let him know that the offer of assistance had brought tears to his eyes.

"It was like being at your own funeral," he says. "Just like that, I was gone from the face of the earth."

-- Dave Scheiber can be reached at 727 893-8541 or [email protected].

>> Tomorrow: Into the shadows, onto the court

"He didn't take (bleep) from anybody. He was one of the refs that was marked who you couldn't talk (bleep) to. As a matter of fact, even if you raised your voice, he would turn around and look to give you a technical. He'd make a point to look back and see if you were going to try to argue or throw a fit. And because he always stayed like that, then you knew just not to do that."

Matt Geiger, former Philadelphia 76ers center, below

"I think he's tough, but fair. He's somebody you can talk to. He definitely draws the line when enough's enough. He doesn't hold grudges. He calls it like he sees it and if he thinks he misses a call, he says that. And the players respect that. But he's a no-nonsense guy, a guy who does a good job of controlling the game and ultimately lets the players play. I think once the story came out that he was an undercover police officer, he got a lot more respect. Everybody called him Donnie Brasco and things like that. But once you're in the heat of battle, you don't think about that stuff."

Grant Hill, Orlando Magic forward

"For a 21-year-old kid, all of a sudden reality sets in. You realize there are some bad people in this world, and the bad can be really bad. So my understanding of victimology started at that point, and so did my understanding of bad guys."

Bob Delaney

"He's a very tough ref; he doesn't take anything from anybody. He's a guy that when you go to him, you've got to go to him the right way. You just know that every time he comes in to ref a game, he is going to be fair. I respect him off the court for what he has done and what he did for his profession."

Dwyane Wade, Miami Heat guard

Shred
07-21-2007, 07:11 PM
great more fuel for suns fans to cry about......1 game isnt 6!! YOU LOST!!!

But 2 + 2 = 4, last time I checked. (With a 7th to go at home, if need be.)

DarkReign
07-21-2007, 10:01 PM
"...stands 6 feet 1..."


"Donaghy, who is about 5-foot-7..."

Which one is it?

LocosPorJuana
07-21-2007, 11:46 PM
With this news, D-wade just lost about 3 free throw attempts per game

zrinkill
07-22-2007, 12:32 AM
Donaghy was ref for Game 3 of the WC Semis (Spurs 108 Suns 101).

Donaghy was ref for more games that Suns won than they lost. So he must have helped them even get to the playoffs.

You cannot have it both ways.

Capt Bringdown
07-22-2007, 07:43 AM
A turning point for the NBA and the David Stern era? Record low ratings and the apparent failure of the "Please god, let us find another Jordan soon" marketing strategy, plus, plus this ref scandal?
I think it's time for a new commish.

UV Ray
07-22-2007, 08:23 AM
I think it's time for a new commish.

Vince McMahon may be available.

UV Ray
07-22-2007, 08:26 AM
And I heard Don King was trying to buy the Spurs.

Shred
07-22-2007, 09:20 AM
Donaghy was ref for more games that Suns won than they lost. So he must have helped them even get to the playoffs.

You cannot have it both ways.

I have no idea what you're talking about. Do you mean, over the course of Donaghy's 13-year career? Game 3 was the only game in that series he reffed in.

zrinkill
07-22-2007, 10:10 AM
I have no idea what you're talking about. Do you mean, over the course of Donaghy's 13-year career? Game 3 was the only game in that series he reffed in.

I am talking about all year kid. And he reffed one game in the Suns /Lakers series .... and you won.

G-Money
07-22-2007, 10:53 AM
With this news, D-wade just lost about 3 free throw attempts per game


lol yeah this doesn't do Wade any good.

Shred
07-22-2007, 11:06 AM
I am talking about all year kid. And he reffed one game in the Suns /Lakers series .... and you won.

Well, son, I guess that game's in question, too. As for the regular season games, who cares?

td4mvp3
07-22-2007, 01:25 PM
Well, son, I guess that game's in question, too. As for the regular season games, who cares?
it's not rocket science. i believe you pointed out that 2+2=4 with a 7th game at the suns. well, if the guy reffed more suns games in the regular season and you won those, with the spurs just one or two games back during the season to determine home court, then maybe it should have rightfully been that the spurs should have had homecourt advantage. more than anything, though, i think all this stuff just proves the sensibility in the 7-game series format. yeah, the guy made a difference, maybe, possibly, in one game, but both teams had six other chances to correct that crap.

Shred
07-22-2007, 03:00 PM
it's not rocket science. i believe you pointed out that 2+2=4 with a 7th game at the suns. well, if the guy reffed more suns games in the regular season and you won those, with the spurs just one or two games back during the season to determine home court, then maybe it should have rightfully been that the spurs should have had homecourt advantage. more than anything, though, i think all this stuff just proves the sensibility in the 7-game series format. yeah, the guy made a difference, maybe, possibly, in one game, but both teams had six other chances to correct that crap.

Someone mark this thread for future reference....Next time Spur fan complains about bad calls, remind him of this guy rationalizing a crooked ref!!!

zrinkill
07-22-2007, 03:34 PM
Well, son, I guess that game's in question, too. As for the regular season games, who cares?

So you dont care when a crooked Ref wins games for ya .... only when ya lose them huh?

This is why your team will never be a champion. Joey crawford cost us home field advantage ...... and we still went out there and dominated every team we played.

pathetic

UV Ray
07-22-2007, 04:04 PM
This is why your team will never be a champion.

The Suns will be champions, but they will be champions AFTER the league is cleaned up. Spurs championships will all have come during the NBA's Era of Corruption.

EastsBeasts
07-22-2007, 04:54 PM
So if this blows up and it is found that he or other referee's were point spreading in playoff games, what will the NBA do? Add another referee on the court? Someone find a way to instill instant replay? They could find a way to do the replays at say the last 5 or 10 minutes of a game. Some of you would say it would slow the game down way too much. I agree but if they worked out a way to do the replays during the NBA's time-outs, which happen every 3 minutes anyways, it could be done. They could allow teams to only have a set amount of times they could challenge a certain call, or no-call. Sure I haven't thought through the countless scenarios but something is going to happen so the NBA can keep its integrity.

td4mvp3
07-22-2007, 07:36 PM
Someone mark this thread for future reference....Next time Spur fan complains about bad calls, remind him of this guy rationalizing a crooked ref!!!
by pointing out the obvious? i didn't say it was fine to impact the game in any way aside from what the players do on the court, i'm merely pointing out how, if you're going to blast the spurs-suns series because of one game, then those same facts should be used to blast the playoff rankings since the guy, presumably, allowed the suns to win more games than he did the spurs because he reffed more games for the suns as another poster already pointed out. quid pro quo, clarice.

UV Ray
07-23-2007, 09:21 AM
Ya wanna bet?
One thing a whistle-blower should never say
Bob Young
The Arizona Republic
Jul. 22, 2007 09:05 PM

Thank goodness we got back from vacation when we did.

Let's just hope it's not too late, because there are some Suns fans who must be kept away from sharp objects, high overhangs and their shoelaces right about now.

Already convinced that the NBA cheated them out of Game 5 of the Western Conference semifinal series against the San Antonio Spurs, now there's this:


The scandal involving NBA referee Tim Donaghy. It allegedly involves mob ties, game fixing and possibly the Suns short-lived playoff run.

ESPN.com's Bill Simmons wrote this after Game 3 of the Western Conference semifinals, which the Suns lost to the San Antonio Spurs 108-101:

"Congratulations to Greg Willard, Tim Donaghy and Eddie F. Rush for giving us the most atrociously officiated game of the playoffs so far: Game 3 of the Suns-Spurs series."

He singled out one call late in the game, when the outcome already was decided, in which he said Manu Ginobili was called for reaching in on Steve Nash.

Simmons suggests now in a column posted Sunday that Donaghy might have been trying to fix the over-under outcome of games.

That's a proposition in which bettors can wager whether the total points scored by both teams will be over or under a predetermined number.

It makes sense.

That would be a fix that could be made without drawing as much suspicion because seemingly inconsequential calls late in games can pad the score. Ignoring stuff late in games can keep the score down.

And the questionable calls can go for or against either team.

Anyway, in that game, Simmons writes that the over-under was 200.5.

The call evidently in question came with 2:26 to play and the Spurs leading 104-93, so the total was still "under" the 200.5 line.

And Donaghy made the call (although it was actually against Bruce Bowen, who brushed Nash before Ginobili reached in).

We reviewed the video on Synergy Sports Technology's Web site to confirm it.

Trouble is, Nash didn't get free throws out of it. Ginobili was called for a foul with 1:18 to go against Nash, but that call was made by Willard, and again Nash did not shoot free throws.

At any rate, this will only fuel the debate about whether the Suns were, you know, manipulated out of a championship.

You may recall that in Game 3, Amar้ Stoudemire got into early foul trouble and played only 21 minutes.

Again using the Synergy Sports Tech video breakdown, we looked at all five calls against Stoudemire.

Donaghy made the first two, both in the first quarter. The first was an easy call. The second was definitely questionable - Robert Horry created contact on a cut to the post when Stoudemire appeared to simply hold his ground.

However, Donaghy never made another call against Stoudemire.

Willard made one and Rush made two, including a charging call that resulted in Stoudemire's fourth personal early in the third quarter with the Suns trailing 56-54.

That was perhaps the most damaging, and questionable, of all the calls against Stoudemire.

In fact, if somebody asked whether we thought the fix was in, we'd have fingered Rush for sure.

After all, he nearly had Nash fixed permanent-like by ignoring Bowen's infamous knee to the Most Valuable Groin during that same game.


Slogans? We've got slogans!
The New York Times reports that a move in the betting line of NBA games by 3 points or more raises suspicion among legal sports bookmaking operators, and Donaghy refereed 11 such games after January - with the team that more money was bet on, thus moving the line, winning seven of the 11.

One game involved the Suns, who were favored by 4 1/2 over Houston. The line moved to 8 and the Suns won by 9.

But this Donaghy thing is only the latest crisis for the NBA. Remember, this is the league that brought us:


• A gambling/cocaine investigation in the late 1980s involving the Suns, which did not amount to much.


• A notoriously suspect lottery system.


• Referees selling their first-class plane tickets, pocketing the difference and not paying taxes.


• Ron Artest.


• The Motown Melee (see also: Artest, Ron).

So, we figure the NBA is going to need some new marketing slogans.

Somehow "I Love This Game!" just doesn't cut it anymore.

Our nominees:

The N-B-tray: FANS-shafted!

NBA Despairs.

NBA Action: You never know who's playing!

Hey, David Blaine warned you the NBA playoffs are "Unbelievable!"

We've got you covered!

If it's broke, we'll fix it!

I Love This Sham!

freedom&justice
07-23-2007, 10:11 AM
Players react to Donaghy scandalposted: Sunday, July 22, 2007

The first NBA referees to return to their uniforms in the wake of betting allegations against Tim Donaghy could be found just 24 hours later.

You simply had to be in the faraway, (almost) forgotten outpost of Vancouver to see them.

Bennie Adams and Derek Richardson formed an old-school, two-man crew Saturday night -- and worked without incident -- in Steve Nash's annual charity game in his home province.

Adams and Richardson were working in mid-July because summertime charity games in the modern era require league sanction if they are to employ NBA players. League sanction includes the presence of real refs.

Adams and Richardson were greetly warmly before the opening tip by a noted NBA diplomat -- chatty Clippers guard Sam Cassell -- and from there did what referees are supposed to do.

Which is to say they were hardly noticed.

Yet it shouldn't be too surprising that Donaghy's story generated plenty of ref chatter in the locker room before and after.

"Wow," Cleveland's Drew Gooden said. "That was my reaction when I heard about it. Just: 'Wow.'

"If it's true -- and I believe that they wouldn't have come out with so much [detail] if it wasn't true -- it's unbelievable. I think it's going to put a microscope on not just NBA refs, but officiating in all sports."

To start with, there's a new pastime in the NBA specifically, with players and coaches inevitably rewinding over the past couple of seasons to see if they can recall specific games that might have been affected by especially questionable whistles.

"I think that's natural," said Suns guard Raja Bell. "I admit it: I couldn't help it."
But Bell, like everyone playing at Vancouver's GM Place, declined to offer specifics if he had them.

"Couldn't happen to a nicer guy," said one player in attendance, who obviously does have some unfavorable memories of Donaghy-reffed games.

Said Gooden: "You always think that. I think if you ask any NBA player, they'll say that every ref has it in for you.

"Except Joey Crawford," Gooden added with a laugh.

When approached postgame, Richardson declined comment on his and Adams' behalf. Yet that came as little surprise, since referees typically aren't allowed to talk to media members without approval from the league office.

In addition, referees -- like all other league employees -- on Friday received an e-mailed decree from NBA commissioner David Stern not to discuss Donaghy's case.

"What can I say [about the Donaghy scandal]?" Nash said. "It's an unfortunate situation. But I think the game is bigger than anything. We'll get through this."

http://insider.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=2945248&name=stein_marc&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fesp n%2fblog%2findex%3fentryID%3d2945248%26name%3dstei n_marc
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While some who are critical of the NBA point to this being an organization's problem, I see this more as probably one man's human error.

This is playing out as if in a movie. You just never know about the skeletons in somebody's closet.

When I was a player, I didn't think about how officiating could be affected this way. You deal with whatever adversity is out there on the court. Officials are like players, they are going to make mistakes.

But you don't think someone is making a mistake based on an ulterior motive. You don't think you'll see a "Goodfellas" scenario playing out, where somebody on the court becomes an agent for organized crime.

Now David Stern's got a big concern. And I think it's more of problem because it's an official rather than a player who's alleged to have done this.

The one element of our game the NBA has wanted to keep out of the public eye is the way officials are handled. You never hear about when they're fined or punished, and rightfully so. You don't want that kind of information coming into the picture of what happens on the court.

So when we see Joey Crawford situations come up in the future, it's going come under far more scrutiny and speculation. The NBA used to be able to put a big blanket over that. Stern won't have the same luxury moving forward. This is going to create issues for him -- he's dealt with players' suspension and trouble with the law -- now you're bringing these officiating issues to the forefront.

I don't know how he's going to deal with this.

-- Greg Anthony, ESPN

zrinkill
08-04-2007, 12:27 AM
The Suns will be champions, but they will be champions AFTER the league is cleaned up. Spurs championships will all have come during the NBA's Era of Corruption.

Keep dreaming kid ...... and keep crying