Sonics' move to OKC getting closer

[MajorMike]

Is Sonics' move to OKC getting closer?

By Associated Press
7/20/2007

Bennett's spokesman says team will come to Oklahoma City if talks with Seattle fail.


SEATTLE -- Seattle SuperSonics owner Clay Bennett called Thursday for a resumption of talks with Seattle's leaders to discuss a new arena.

A Bennett spokesman said if those efforts fail, Bennett will move the team to his hometown of Oklahoma City.

Bennett spokesman Dan Mahoney confirmed Thursday that if Bennett decides to file relocation papers with the NBA, Oklahoma City will be the destination. It's the first time Bennett has made a solid declaration of where he would take the team if a new arena deal doesn't work out in Seattle.

"Kansas City was being looked at, but the preference is that if relocation is attempted, Oklahoma City would be the market," Mahoney said.

Previously, Bennett had visited Kansas City to speak with officials about their new arena. Oklahoma City just finished a two-year run hosting the New Orleans Hornets, who return to Louisiana next season.

Bennett has been mostly silent on the issue since the Washington Legislature adjourned in April without taking action on a proposal that would have contributed about $300 million in public money for a new arena.

Wednesday was the one-year anniversary of Bennett's purchase of the Sonics.

"The clock is ticking and we wanted to again bring a call to action and raise the issue and bring people to the table and get serious about what needs to get done," said Bennett, who was in Seattle on Thursday before flying back to Oklahoma City in the afternoon.

Bennett has set an Oct. 31 deadline for finding an arena

[Findog]

Fixed from the start. I don't think long-term it's such a good idea to move teams to midwestern shitholes. The Grizzlies in Memphis worked out so well.

If Stern has any decency, he can follow the Cleveland Browns precedent and keep the colors and the name in Seattle and they have to become the Oklahoma City Inbreds. Then give the fans a new Sonics franchise as an expansion team.

The voters in Seattle approved new facilities for both the Mariners and Hawks, they would've probably done the same for the Sonics, but Bennett has purposely been a dick about the whole thing in order to alienate the community. The last thing he wants is for them to approve a new arena in order to keep the team there. The whole thing makes me sick, it reminds me of the NHL moving to into southwestern markets and away from their bread and butter.

[MajorMike]

The voters in Seattle approved new facilities for both the Mariners and Hawks, they would've probably done the same for the Sonics, but Bennett has purposely been a dick about the whole thing in order to alienate the community. The last thing he wants is for them to approve a new arena in order to keep the team there. The whole thing makes me sick, it reminds me of the NHL moving to into southwestern markets and away from their bread and butter.

So... I guess that's why the new arena proposals dating back to 2004 have been defeated as well - because they all knew Bennett would eventually be the owner and wanted to spite him; correct?

[Findog]

So... I guess that's why the new arena proposals dating back to 2004 have been defeated as well - because they all knew Bennett would eventually be the owner and wanted to spite him; correct?

Howard Schultz was a dick about it as well. 10 years after they renovated Key Arena he came calling on the Legislature asking for another handout. I'm sure they could've eventually worked something out but both Bennett and Schultz adopted a belligerent posture from the start, in Schultz's case "Give me a new arena or I'll sell the team, and not necessarily to a local group interested in keeping the team here," and in Bennett's case, "Give me a new arena, wink wink, or I'll move the team out of here." I don't know what Bennett would do if the city or the Legislature gave in and set him up with a sweetheart deal. His goal all along has been to move the team out.

[MajorMike]

Actually Bennett has given the city every opportunity to fund a new arena. If you want to blame someone, you need to blame the State Treasurer (Mike Murphy) who constantly blasts the proposals in the public, the legistlature (who have voted against every said proposal, to include the Key Arena expansion package - twice) and the general populous, who want the Sonics to stay but don't want to raise taxes for it.

Key Arena is a complete shit hole. It is the smallest arena in the league. If Seattle loses the Sonics, they have no one to blame but themselves. I don't know how you could fault someone who came in, gave them multiple shots, and took the chance to move them to a better market/better facilities/hungrier fanbase.

[Oh, Gee!!]

OKC is to Seattle, what SATX was to Minnesota/NOLA.

[Findog]

Actually Bennett has given the city every opportunity to fund a new arena. If you want to blame someone, you need to blame the State Treasurer (Mike Murphy) who constantly blasts the proposals in the public, the legistlature (who have voted against every said proposal, to include the Key Arena expansion package - twice) and the general populous, who want the Sonics to stay but don't want to raise taxes for it.

Key Arena is a complete shit hole. It is the smallest arena in the league. If Seattle loses the Sonics, they have no one to blame but themselves. I don't know how you could fault someone who came in, gave them multiple shots, and took the chance to move them to a better market/better facilities/hungrier fanbase.


He gave them no shot whatsover to keep the Sonics in Seattle. He bought the team for the express purpose of moving them to OKC. The people in Seattle see right through his bullshit.

And OKC is not a better market, not by a longshot. As for that "hungrier" fanbase: Yeah, people may well show up and support a team in OKC, especially at first before the novelty has worn off, but that fanbase is irrelevant if the club is doomed to mediocrity because they cannot retain players, nor attract free agents.

OKC is pretty much a craptastically awful city in a pretty craptastic state. So craptastic is Oklahoma that almost no one lives there--meanwhile, south of OK, 30 odd million people are content to call Texas home. You might as well have a team in Wyoming or North Dakota. Yeah, people will show up because there ain't fuck else to do there. But as soon as his contract is up, any decent player is gone to greener pastures.

Seattle, even with the 25th highest home attendance in the league, apparently sold 94% of their home tickets, barely behind Golden State and ahead of Toronto, a huge city with a young and exciting team. In comparison, when playing at the Ford Center, in Oklahoma City, the Hornets sold 95 % of the available seats in 2005-2006 and 92% of available seats in 2006-2007 -- both of those years, the average gates were at least a 1,000 people higher on average because of the greater capacity of the Ford Center. So the issue isn't the Sonic fanbase's unwillingness to support the team, which they've done even though the team has stunk since the end of the Kemp/Payton days.

The problem isn't the Seattle fans -- they're filling out the arena as much as could be expected, it's that their arena doesn't match up with what owners want in terms of butts in seats and more likely, luxury suites. Key Arena is short of luxury suites, but that can be easily remedied without raping the taxpayers. It's not a "shithole," a shithole would be a place like old Comiskey Park or Tiger Stadium that's literally falling apart and smells like a zoo. Key Arena is a fine place to watch a game -- it has good sightlines, just not as much of the luxury box goodies an owner would want. Like I said, he can pay out of his own pocket to have more installed. So this isn't about any faults of Key Arena or the Seattle fanbase, it's about Clay Bennett unable to pry away the Hornets from George Shinn and keep them in OKC. Buying the Sonics was Plan B.

To all would-be NBA owners, it works like this: Either your franchise is a business, in which case you fucking run it like one and I only pay when I want to see a game, or it's a piece of "essential character" of the city, in which case the public money you get makes you beholden to those pissant voices you can't stand to listen to. Howard Schultz was unable or unwilling to do this in order to get his arena, whereas the Mariners and Seahawks management was.

[MajorMike]

Wow... can I make up lies and post them as well? That sure seems fun.

Did Seattle fail to get a new arena long before Bennett came to town - Yes or no?

[Findog]

Wow... can I make up lies and post them as well? That sure seems fun.

Did Seattle fail to get a new arena long before Bennett came to town - Yes or no?

No. Is that the fault of the municipal govt and the people of Seattle? Answer is also No. Issuing ultimatums and adopting a belligerent posture is a great way to piss people off. Great counterpoint. Enjoy the dustbowl Tom Joad.

[monosylab1k]

LOL if the Sonics move to Oklahoma fuckin' City, Durant is outta there after his rookie contract faster than you can say "I'm a Laker".

[Findog]

LOL if the Sonics move to Oklahoma fuckin' City, Durant is outta there after his rookie contract faster than you can say "I'm a Laker".

Which is exactly why this is bad for the League, even if it's good for Clay Bennett and the citizens of OKC. They already have a test-case for this, the NHL ruined itself moving into markets not suited for it. Attracting and keeping top talent is going to be a problem for the Oklahoma City Whatevers. Lack of nightlife and things to do and a small-market without the corporate supporting base you have in larger markets means Bennett will be content to turn a buck than going into lux tax territory to make his team an elite contender. The Sonics in OKC are going to resemble the Sacramento Kings from 1985 until they were bought by the Maloofs.

Seattle has a done a decent job of supporting the team even when they've sucked, and when he bought the team, he agreed to a "good-faith effort" to keep the team in Seattle. That he's even meeting with the Mayor of Seattle is probably Stern's bidding to get his ass up there and try to make something work.

Honestly, given the long-term problems of New Orleans as a viable market for professional basketball, the lack of long-term ties to southern Louisiana, it would make much more sense to keep the Hornets in OKC and the Sonics in Seattle, and leave NOLA out in the cold.

[MajorMike]

So, in other words, the answer is yes. Nice try at flaming. Come back when you can actually back something up that you say with something more than 'because I say so.'


After failing to secure $200 million in public funding for a $220 million expansion of Key Arena, a frustrated Howard Schultz sells the team to Clay Bennett, a prominent Oklahoma City businessman.


Local icon and Sonic owner Howard Schultz received a chilly reception from lawmakers on his Key Arena proposal


and only months after 74-percent of Seattle voters rejected a public subsidy by approving

Seattle attendance: (17,072 capacity)

2006-2007 15,631 (26th in NBA) 91%
2005-2006 16,198 (23rd in NBA) 95%
2004-2005 16,475 (21st in NBA) Won Division
2003-2004 15,399 (23rd in NBA)

Key Arena is also the oldest in the NBA, built in 1962. The 2 next on the list are MSG in NYC (1968) and ARCO (1988).

[monosylab1k]

Does Seattle have any decent sized suburbs that would want the revenue a Kevin Durant-led Sonics team would make? As soon as the city of Dallas started giving Jerry Jones the Heisman, he immediately got a deal done with Arlington instead.

[Findog]

So, in other words, the answer is yes. Nice try at flaming. Come back when you can actually back something up that you say with something more than 'because I say so.'

Answer is yes to what? You're not making any sense whatsoever. I've backed up what I'm saying with logic, facts and analysis. You're just jizzing your jeans over the NBA coming to Craplahoma. I understand your excitement, but I'm talking about the bigger picture.







Seattle attendance: (17,072 capacity)

2006-2007 15,631 (26th in NBA) 91%
2005-2006 16,198 (23rd in NBA) 95%
2004-2005 16,475 (21st in NBA) Won Division
2003-2004 15,399 (23rd in NBA)

They sold over 90% of their tickets. If you had any familiarity with math and logic, you'd realize that's not tied to arena capacity. The Sonics fans are supporting their team.


Key Arena is also the oldest in the NBA, built in 1962. The 2 next on the list are MSG in NYC (1968) and ARCO (1988)

What does age have to do with anything? Should the Knicks leave MSG? Cubs leave Wrigley Field? Red Sox leave Fenway, if those facilities aren't falling apart? And btw, Key Arena underwent a major renovation in 1995. It just simply doesn't have the same amount of luxury boxes as other arenas. I don't see how Clay Bennett needs $500 million and a brand new building to remedy that.

[Findog]

Does Seattle have any decent sized suburbs that would want the revenue a Kevin Durant-led Sonics team would make? As soon as the city of Dallas started giving Jerry Jones the Heisman, he immediately got a deal done with Arlington instead.

Bennett has made noises about building a team in Renton, which is just outside the city, but it's probably just going through the motions since the agreement he signed upon purchasing the team required him to make a "good-faith" effort to keep the team in Seattle. He's never had any intention of doing that whatsoever.

[MajorMike]

I asked a very simple question.

Did Seattle fail to get a new arena long before Bennett came to town - Yes or no?

You answered no, which is plainly wrong. If you don't know history, than there is no reason to even debate the issue with you because you clearly aren't knowledgable enough on the subject to contemplate a correctly formed opinion.

[Findog]

I asked a very simple question.

Did Seattle fail to get a new arena long before Bennett came to town - Yes or no?

You answered no, which is plainly wrong. If you don't know history, than there is no reason to even debate the issue with you because you clearly aren't knowledgable enough on the subject to contemplate a correctly formed opinion.

I answered no, because I thought you asked "did they get a new arena", not "did they FAIL to get a new arena." How you could possibly interpret that as me lying through my teeth or being delusional when in my parent post I acknowledged the failure of Schultz/Bennett and the municipal govt to come to an agreement on an arena deal, I don't know, but like everything else you've written in this thread, it doesn't make sense. But go ahead and quibble over a reading error on my part than address my argument. I know my history just fine. If you can't address my arguments, then there is no reason to debate the issue with you because you clearly are just excited about the prospects of professional basketball coming to Oklahoma and cannot discuss the issue without that bias clouding whatever point you're trying to make.

[freedom&justice]

LOL if the Sonics move to Oklahoma fuckin' City, Durant is outta there after his rookie contract faster than you can say "I'm a Laker".

:tu
Stern would probably be all over that too, he would want potential superstar Durant in a big market.