Suns trade Thomas, picks to Seattle

[ducks]

Suns trade Thomas, picks to Seattle


http://www.azcentral.com/sports/suns/articles/0720kurttraded-CR.html


Suns trade Thomas, picks to Seattle
Team also re-signs Marks
Paul Coro
The Arizona Republic
Jul. 20, 2007 09:01 AM

The Suns traded center Kurt Thomas this morning in a move that relieves some salary-cap pressure.

Thomas goes to the Seattle SuperSonics, along with the Suns' own 2008 and 2010 first-round draft picks in exchange for a future conditional 2nd round pick and a trade exception, worth about $8 million.

The league's new luxury tax threshold -- the number at which teams would begin to be taxed -- came in different from what the Suns expected, at $67.9 million, and would have left Phoenix more than $10 million over that number.

The Suns also re-signed Sean Marks. If draft picks Alando Tucker and D.J. Strawberry make the team, that would leave Phoenix with one roster position open. They will be looking to fill it with a free-agent front-line player.

[CosmicCowboy]

LOL

play defense in Phoenix and you are expendable.

[ducks]

Cheap Ass Suns

[Oink Oink]

The Suns owner is cheaper than Holt. :lol

[ducks]

THIS MOVE SUCKS FOR SUN FANS
and then marion saying he is going overseas next year
they can only trade him to a team looking for cap space now

[ducks]

sun fan has to be ticked at this move
this move does not help them get past spurs

[coopdogg3]

Wow this is good news for the Spurs. Seattle gets a couple 1st-rounds to play around with as well, and who knows, Suns may suck in 2010 so Sonics could get a decent pick. Presti, helping out the Spurs and himself at the same time. Well done.

[Kori Ellis]

Good job by Seattle. I'm guessing they are moving Petro or one of their other young centers now. I keep hearing Robert Swift to Boston, but who knows.

[rascal]

Thomas wasn't any good anyways.

[Leetonidas]

Trade away the only player on the entire Suns roster who can guard Tim Duncan? Smaaaaart. :lmao

[rascal]

He can't guard Duncan. They will get someone else.

[Leetonidas]

He can't guard Duncan. They will get someone else.
Were you not watching the 2nd round this year?

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

Wow. Sarver is pinching pennies so hard that Abe Lincoln is bruising. Sam Presti is looking like a damn genius so far.

[coopdogg3]

And who are they going to get who can guard Duncan while they're trying to drop pay-roll?

[ducks]

He can't guard Duncan. They will get someone else.
who can wise one
he did a decent job one of the very few that can

[coopdogg3]

This makes the Scola trade look a lot better. :lol Hollinger is gonna have to redo his winners/losers now, that's for sure.

[MoSpur]

Good trade for Seattle. What does their starting lineup look like now?

[Switchman]

lol.

Silly Suns.

[rascal]

who can wise one
he did a decent job one of the very few that can

No one can.

[venitian navigator]

Looks like ther's a different tred after years of everspending...for bud stuff in return (knicks like the more obvious example)!
Finally the lux tax is working somehow...
Till now i think the only teams fiscally responsable have been Clippers (sterling...but no more now) and Spurs...

[SenorSpur]

Suns trade Thomas, picks to Seattle


http://www.azcentral.com/sports/suns/articles/0720kurttraded-CR.html


Suns trade Thomas, picks to Seattle
Team also re-signs Marks
Paul Coro
The Arizona Republic
Jul. 20, 2007 09:01 AM

The Suns traded center Kurt Thomas this morning in a move that relieves some salary-cap pressure.

Thomas goes to the Seattle SuperSonics, along with the Suns' own 2008 and 2010 first-round draft picks in exchange for a future conditional 2nd round pick and a trade exception, worth about $8 million.

The league's new luxury tax threshold -- the number at which teams would begin to be taxed -- came in different from what the Suns expected, at $67.9 million, and would have left Phoenix more than $10 million over that number.

The Suns also re-signed Sean Marks. If draft picks Alando Tucker and D.J. Strawberry make the team, that would leave Phoenix with one roster position open. They will be looking to fill it with a free-agent front-line player.

Now we don't have to constantly hear about how well Thomas guards Duncan and how Thomas is or was the Suns playoff "X" factor.

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

Now we don't have to constantly hear about how well Thomas guards Duncan and how Thomas is or was the Suns playoff "X" factor.
No, we'll be hearing about how Presti is quietly assembling a team specifically designed to upset the Spurs in the first round a la Don Nelson's Warriors to the Mavs.

[Big P]

THIS MOVE SUCKS FOR SUN FANS
and then marion saying he is going overseas next year
they can only trade him to a team looking for cap space now

When did Marion say he was going overseas? I saw Marbury said that he wanted to finish his carrer in Italy, but I heard nothing about Marion.

As for the trade, I think Phoenix did the best they possibly could. At some point soon, someone was going to have to go & Thomas is the oldest & least important of their starting 5. Nobody was going to trade any player of real value for him(ie a good young player), so for the Suns to get a nice $8 mil TE that they can either let expire or pick up an $8 mil dollar player down the road, seems like a pretty good deal in my eyes.

[vander]

where do these trade exceptions begin, how did seattle get it to trade it to phoenix?

[Findog]

No one can.

Dampier/Diop can at least "guard" him straight-up so we don't have to double and can stay home on your shooters..

[spurster]

Thomas never fit very well on a run-and-gun team, only when the pace slowed down during the playoffs.

[Leetonidas]

Dampier/Diop can at least "guard" him straight-up so we don't have to double and can stay home on your shooters..
Dampier sucks ass. However, I do think Diop does a good job on Tim.

And rascal, that's not true. There's only one player in the NBA who can really guard Tim...one Rasheed Wallace.

[Kori Ellis]

where do these trade exceptions begin, how did seattle get it to trade it to phoenix?

They got it from Orlando for trading Rashard Lewis there.

[Bruno]

Holt > Sarver.

This trade will too encourage Spurs to be above the luxury tax.
The luxury tax amount collected next year will be quite low : the penalty for being 1$ above the luxury tax threshold will be low too.

[coopdogg3]

When did Marion say he was going overseas? I saw Marbury said that he wanted to finish his carrer in Italy, but I heard nothing about Marion.

As for the trade, I think Phoenix did the best they possibly could. At some point soon, someone was going to have to go & Thomas is the oldest & least important of their starting 5. Nobody was going to trade any player of real value for him(ie a good young player), so for the Suns to get a nice $8 mil TE that they can either let expire or pick up an $8 mil dollar player down the road, seems like a pretty good deal in my eyes.

I doubt that the Suns use the TE, they seem desperate to cut pay-roll. Of course, if they combine the TE with Amare to get KG or something, than all bets are off.

Sonics also get 2 1st-rounders as well. They get a center to hold serve for a year, drop him the year, and will have plenty of cap space the next couple years. Thomas was the Suns lone real expiring contract, and they get raped in a deal to drop it. Unless Marion opts out next year (which he would be crazy to do), Suns will still have salary issues next year as well. Suns will have 7/8 players under contract next year (depending on what Grant Hill and Marion do) and will have a pay-roll of $70 million or so. Ouch.

This trade is overwhelmingly in favor of the Sonics. Steve Kerr either got rail-roaded into this trade (in which case he's pissed) or he thought it was a good trade (in which case he's a fool for a GM). I'm betting it's the former.

[T Park]

great trade for the Spurs.

[Oh, Gee!!]

this is my worst fear!!!!!!!! I'm so jealous!!!

[Oh, Gee!!]

j/k. I did that for da suns fan's benefit

[Findog]

Dampier sucks ass. However, I do think Diop does a good job on Tim.


No, Dampier is a MLE guy making near-max money. Like Diop, he can "guard" Tim straight up so it cuts down on open looks on the perimeter for your jumpshooters.

[monosylab1k]

No, Dampier is a MLE guy making near-max money. Like Diop, he can "guard" Tim straight up so it cuts down on open looks on the perimeter for your jumpshooters.
Dampier sucks ass.

[Big P]

I doubt that the Suns use the TE, they seem desperate to cut pay-roll. Of course, if they combine the TE with Amare to get KG or something, than all bets are off.

Sonics also get 2 1st-rounders as well. They get a center to hold serve for a year, drop him the year, and will have plenty of cap space the next couple years. Thomas was the Suns lone real expiring contract, and they get raped in a deal to drop it. Unless Marion opts out next year (which he would be crazy to do), Suns will still have salary issues next year as well. Suns will have 7/8 players under contract next year (depending on what Grant Hill and Marion do) and will have a pay-roll of $70 million or so. Ouch.

This trade is overwhelmingly in favor of the Sonics. Steve Kerr either got rail-roaded into this trade (in which case he's pissed) or he thought it was a good trade (in which case he's a fool for a GM). I'm betting it's the former.

Teams can't combine players with the TE to make a trade.

[Bruno]

BTW, Kurt Thomas +/- stats in the Spurs vs Suns serie :
On the court : +24
Off the court : -21

:smokin

[Leetonidas]

No, Dampier is a MLE guy making near-max money. Like Diop, he can "guard" Tim straight up so it cuts down on open looks on the perimeter for your jumpshooters.
Which is why he lit up Dampier for 41 points while Diop sat on the bench with foul trouble?

Or are you talking strictly in the sense that Dampier won't leave Duncan so he can't pass to open shooters? Because Tim abused anyone who was on him in 2006.

[ShoogarBear]

:rollin

Sarver is out-Holting Holt.

Seriously, this challenges the Scola/Butler trade for the All-Time "strengthening your opponent because you're cheap" award.

Thomas wasn't a Duncan-stopper, but he did a credible enough job that they didn't have to completely wave the white flag on defense.

[bdictjames]

Thomas' jumpshot was also a key to the Suns almost beating us. His pick-and-pop with Nash was almost an automatic 2 points. Good news for the Spurs

[ShoogarBear]

The combination of Sarver's cheapness and D'Antonio's defensive cluelessness may bail the Spurs out yet.

[td4mvp21]

Dampier/Diop can at least "guard" him straight-up so we don't have to double and can stay home on your shooters..

True, but Duncan alway scores a lot against the Mavs.

[CosmicCowboy]

True, but Duncan alway scores a lot against the Mavs.

LOL Could it be his matchups or do you think it's that he just doesn't like the color of their jerseys?

[Marcus Bryant]

BTW, Kurt Thomas +/- stats in the Spurs vs Suns serie :
On the court : +24
Off the court : -21

:smokin

It's nice when other franchises make dumb deals.

[bdictjames]

True, but Duncan alway scores a lot against the Mavs.
Because most of the time its Dampier who's guarding him. Duncan also makes a lot of his points in FTs against the Mavs, because they keep fouling him.

Its like Amare always scores a lot against us. They keep everybody in check while Duncan is out there putting 35-40 a game.

[justanotherspursfan]

The combination of Sarver's cheapness and D'Antonio's defensive cluelessness may bail the Spurs out yet.
Well, there's still Dallas. And possibly Houston now.

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

:rollin

Sarver is out-Holting Holt.


I think Sarver is realizing that his way of doing things wasn't working and decided to follow a more classic NBA model, in this case, LA Clippers circa mid-nineties.

[ShoogarBear]

I think Sarver is realizing that his way of doing things wasn't working and decided to follow a more classic NBA model, in this case, LA Clippers circa mid-nineties.Stepien-Era Cleveland would have been way too harsh.

[JMarkJohns]

:shootme

[Slinkyman]

now THIS is cheap.

[MannyIsGod]

Money doesn't grow on trees even for the rich.

[Streakyshooter08]

Great trade for the Sonics. Props to Presti.I wonder who the Suns sign now as a big man? Maybe Brown? It is also good for the Spurs that the Suns are losing a good defender.

[Darkwaters]

Sonics win.
Spurs win.
Suns lose.

I like it.

[ShoogarBear]

Money doesn't grow on trees even for the rich.Neither do first round draft picks.

[JMarkJohns]

It doesn't solve anything, either. Unless Marion opts out at years end, the Suns will be right back in this position next offseason thanks to salary inflation and the 2008 Atlanta pick.

So they get worse now, may not even solve their issues, and trade another few picks.

Not much brightside to this move at all. Well, other than for Sarver's bank balance.

[Findog]

Which is why he lit up Dampier for 41 points while Diop sat on the bench with foul trouble?

Or are you talking strictly in the sense that Dampier won't leave Duncan so he can't pass to open shooters? Because Tim abused anyone who was on him in 2006.

I'm talking strictly in the sense that we don't double-team Duncan all the time with Dampier in the game. Sometimes Avery sends the double, sometimes he doesn't. I ain't saying he's worth $70 million over 7 years, but he's a big upgrade over the Mormon or the Raefist.

[Findog]

True, but Duncan alway scores a lot against the Mavs.

He gets a lot of those points by going to the free-throw line. I think it's a good strategy to force the best power forward of alltime to have to earn his points at the line where he only hits at 65%. That's better than Parker and Manu getting open, clean looks all game long.

[timvp]

This was very much an expected trade. If you are a Suns fan, this is not as bad as it could have been. The trade saves about $16M this season. That's a lot of damn money. As far as the picks, the Suns always trade away their picks anyways. Plus they still retained their best pick (the Hawks pick next season).

And actually, this was almost the exact trade I wanted the Spurs to do to dump Barry. To dump a salary as big as Barry or Thomas, you have to give up a lot. No one is going to absorb a contract that big without asking for a whole lot.

This trade for the Suns is a lot better than having to salary dump someone like Marion. And at least they salary dumped a big contract ... instead of salary dumping a tiny contract like the Spurs did. :rolleyes

That said, this is great news for the Spurs. The Suns have basically traded Kurt Thomas and James Jones for Grant Hill. Thomas and Jones were the Suns two best defenders last year. Now I really don't see how the Suns guard the Spurs in the playoffs.

I'm not sure if the Suns are going to be adding any pieces but hopefully they aren't able to land a Thomas replacement in someone like PJ Brown. As it stands, it looks like the Suns will be forced to put Amare on Duncan and Nash on Parker.

:hungry:

[Findog]

I'm not sure if the Suns are going to be adding any pieces but hopefully they aren't able to land a Thomas replacement in someone like PJ Brown. As it stands, it looks like the Suns will be forced to put Amare on Duncan and Nash on Parker.

:hungry:

Or hope that somehow Dallas can repeat what it did in 06 and take care of the Spurs for them. That's an iffy proposition if you ask me.

[ducks]

sun fan would you do this move for marion instead of thomas?

[ShoogarBear]

Thomas and Jones were the Suns two best defenders last year. You mean in the frontcourt? Or are you saying Bell is overrated?

[Mitch Cumsteen]

Cap space is expensive this year. First it cost the Spurs Scola to dump a lousy $3M/ 2 yrs contract and now Phoenix has to give up two first rounders for an expiring $8M contract that Presti is just going to trade again at the deadline anyway.

Wow. What a great move by Presti. It's not like Thomas had 3 years to go on that contract. That thing is expiring this freaking year. Does Steve Kerr not realize what an asset that is? If you want to dump salary, you would think that you could find a better alternative than dumping an expiring deal.

[ShoogarBear]

Good point about the expiring year. That means Presti could turn it into another pick or two later this year.

[timvp]

You mean in the frontcourt? Or are you saying Bell is overrated?Bell is an overrated defender. Thomas graded out as the team's best defender in both the regular season and the playoffs. Bell is a rugged defender who will do the dirty work . . . but he's far from a Bowen level shutdown defender.

Jones was the better defender in the regular season. Jones was the best defender on the team in the 2006 playoffs. You can make a case that Bell is the better defender due to the fact he plays more minutes, but it's a lot closer than Suns fans will admit now that Jones is in Portland.

[Findog]

Regarding the $8 million TE...is this simply to get under or near the cap, or does it improve their chances of getting KG?

[smrattler]

Forget KG. Wouldn't they go after PJ Brown now? Or would that still put them over the cap? Well, even so, not by much I don't think.

[Xylus]

Terrible, terrible, terrible, terrible, terrible, terrible, terrible, terrible, terrible, horrible, godawful, horrendous, terrible, terrible, fucking ghastly, terrible trade.

Kurt Thomas and two draft picks for a second rounder and some money. What the fuck.

[Findog]

Forget KG. Wouldn't they go after PJ Brown now? Or would that still put them over the cap? Well, even so, not by much I don't think.

Well, somebody please correct me if I'm wrong, but you can't combine a TE with current players to match the salary of an incoming player, correct? They'd in effect have to make two trades with Minnesota, one for KG, and another to take a bad contract off Minny's hands, like Jaric or Hudson.

Maybe Kurt Thomas will be in a Mavs uni come February, Seattle sure as fuck doesn't need him. :santahat

[Xylus]

It saddens me how badly the Suns coaching and management underrated Kurt Thomas. He was worth every bit of that $8 million.

[vander]

They got it from Orlando for trading Rashard Lewis there.

where did Orlando get it then? or was it created in that trade?

[sribb43]

Forget KG. Wouldn't they go after PJ Brown now? Or would that still put them over the cap? Well, even so, not by much I don't think.
I dont know if PJ would consider PHX given their style of play and his older legs. I think he would be a good fit as backup in Dallas to Dirk. Maybe we can finally get a backup PF that can play a little D on Duncan and not have to keep watching guys like Van Horn or Croshere on him

[kingkoopa]

What a terrible move for the suns. They are certainly going backwards now.

[Xylus]

PJ Brown is most definitely not the answer to our problems, either. Looking at a list of other possible acquisitions, none of them are as good as Kurt Thomas.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Sarver is out-Holting Holt.
Pwned. Sig-worthy.

[worm9110]

Kurt Thomas may be a vet but he can still play pretty solid defense as well as hit the shot you want out of him. Plus he can hit his free throws. I really impressed me during the Suns -Spurs series.

[YODA]

Thomas goes to the Seattle SuperSonics, along with the Suns' own 2008 and 2010 first-round draft picks in exchange for a future conditional 2nd round pick and a trade exception, worth about $8 million.



Can someone explain that last part about condtional 2nd round pick and trade exception worth 8 mill?????

This looks at first glance like the suns give up Tomas,
two first rounds picks for little more then a second rounder and what ever this trade exception means.


Yoda
Do or do not...there is no try

[Guru of Nothing]

Sarvings Account >> Holting Pattern


:rollin

Sarver is out-Holting Holt.

Seriously, this challenges the Scola/Butler trade for the All-Time "strengthening your opponent because you're cheap" award.

Thomas wasn't a Duncan-stopper, but he did a credible enough job that they didn't have to completely wave the white flag on defense.

[Bruno]

Suns need a PF/C who can play some defense like Brian Skinner or PJ Brown. But it would be a downgrade compared to Kurt Thomas.

[timvp]

Suns need a PF/C who can play some defense like Brian Skinner or PJ Brown. But it would be a downgrade compared to Kurt Thomas.How much room do they have under the luxury tax? Even with this trade, it doesn't look like much.

[Xylus]

How much room do they have under the luxury tax? Even with this trade, it doesn't look like much.
They are still over the luxury tax, I believe, by a shade under $2 mil.

[Dex]

Thomas was the one piece the Suns had that actually seemed to give them sort of edge against the Spurs. Anybody who doesn't realize that hasn't been paying much attention the past couple of years.

D'Antoni would actually slow down his entire game plan in order to fit this guy on the floor against the Spurs. I'm sure there was some sort of reasoning behind this.

Regardless, now they've just added another turnstile in Grant Hill, and I'm still wondering how they are going to effectively fit in good minutes for Nash, Barbosa, Bell, Marion, AND Hill.

I foresee another fabulous regular season for Phoenix, and another early playoff exit.

[spurster]

Sarvings Account >> Holting Pattern
:lol

[ShoogarBear]

Terrible, terrible, terrible, terrible, terrible, terrible, terrible, terrible, terrible, horrible, godawful, horrendous, terrible, terrible, fucking ghastly, terrible trade.

Kurt Thomas and two draft picks for a second rounder and some money. What the fuck.The early entry for whottt's Best Whiner About the Thomas Trade thread.

[ShoogarBear]

Sarvings Account >> Holting Pattern:lol :tu

[JMarkJohns]

The Suns need Skinner or Brown. NEED...

Like Timvp said, Amare on Duncan... Sheesh!

Marion will play Parker, Bell on Manu...

[timvp]

Marion will play Parker, Bell on Manu...

So will Nash or Hill guard the Spurs' center?

[Bruno]

How much room do they have under the luxury tax? Even with this trade, it doesn't look like much.

I have them $800K over the tax with 11 players under contract.
Add DJ Strawberry and a 13th player paid the min, to reach the 13 players required, and they will be $2M over the tax.

[timvp]

I have them $800K over the tax with 11 players under contract.
Add DJ Strawberry and a 13th player paid the min, to reach the 13 players required, and they will be $2M over the tax.I'm guessing they won't add anymore salary then.

Let's hope PJ Brown and Brian Skinner will get more than the minimum.

Sean Marks in the rotation?

:hungry:

[spursreport]

Which is why he lit up Dampier for 41 points while Diop sat on the bench with foul trouble?

Or are you talking strictly in the sense that Dampier won't leave Duncan so he can't pass to open shooters? Because Tim abused anyone who was on him in 2006.

Dont bother arguing with him. He thinks the Mavs are mentally tough enough to win it all due to beating the Spurs in 2006.

[ShoogarBear]

If this is really the way that salary dumps are going to be handled in the future, then somebody should start queuing up for Orlando's 2009 and 2010 picks.

[Bruno]

I'm guessing they won't add anymore salary then.

Let's hope PJ Brown and Brian Skinner will get more than the minimum.

Sean Marks in the rotation?

:hungry:

Don't be so happy, I can imagine a timvp nightmare scenario :
Knicks buy out Malik (they need roster spots and are rebuilding) and he sign for the min with Phoenix. :drunk

[timvp]

Don't be so happy, I can imagine a timvp nightmare scenario :
Knicks buy out Malik (they need roster spots and are rebuilding) and he sign for the min with Phoenix. :drunkMalik is still a Spur. CIA Malik.

:hat

[lefty]

OMG ! they traded the " Duncan stopper " :lol :lmao

[Da Spurs]

This trade will too encourage Spurs to be above the luxury tax.
The luxury tax amount collected next year will be quite low : the penalty for being 1$ above the luxury tax threshold will be low too.

Wrong! Last year there were 5 teams. This next year there will be a dozen or more. Mark it down. The Knicks won't be paying as much but that will be more than made up other teams. Plus, there will be fewer teams to share the money which equals bigger per-team payoff.

[Bruno]

Wrong! Last year there were 5 teams. This next year there will be a dozen or more. Mark it down. The Knicks won't be paying as much but that will be more than made up other teams.

We can't say how much luxury tax will be collected before the deadline but I think it will be less than last year.
Last year teams have paid $55M in luxury tax. This year it should be around $45M.



Plus, there will be fewer teams to share the money which equals bigger per-team payoff.

Luxury tax redistribution doesn't work like that.
Teams under the tax get 1/30th more of the luxury tax money collected than teams over the tax.

[Da Spurs]

We can't say how much luxury tax will be collected before the deadline but I think it will be less than last year.
Last year teams have paid $55M in luxury tax. This year it should be around $45M.

That's still a sizeable sum. My point was that it wasn't "very low" like the prior poster said.



Luxury tax redistribution doesn't work like that.
Teams under the tax get 1/30th more of the luxury tax money collected than teams over the tax.

Good point, but the excess funds still will probably go into the escrow funds.

[Lp26]

What a stupid trade for the Suns. Seriously. KT was great against the Duncan.

Not Rasheed Wallace great, but at least he made him work for his points.

[justanotherspursfan]

We can't say how much luxury tax will be collected before the deadline but I think it will be less than last year.
Last year teams have paid $55M in luxury tax. This year it should be around $45M.
Not that I'm questioning whether you know what you're talking about, but how do you know that? Just based on how much teams have signed players for so far, or do you have projections for what currently unsigned FAs will get as well?

[SequSpur]

other teams are making moves and the spurs are signing bonner.. fucking great.

[T Park]

:lol

Typical Sequ. The lottery sonics add a player and he gets bent out of shape.

Shut it boy.

[Bruno]

Not that I'm questioning whether you know what you're talking about, but how do you know that? Just based on how much teams have signed players for so far, or do you have projections for what currently unsigned FAs will get as well?

It's an approximation done in a couple of minutes.
We will have a better idea at the end of the offseason.

You don't need too to have a precise number to have an idea an how penalizing it is to be over the tax by $1. A luxury tax between $36M and $54M give you between $1.2M and $1.8M as penalty per team.
The Thomas trade has reduced the penalty by $270K.

[lefty]

What a stupid trade for the Suns. Seriously. KT was great against the Duncan.

Not Rasheed Wallace great, but at least he made him work for his points.

:wtf 27 pts, 14 rbds and at least 3 bpg ; not to mention the foul trouble

[Findog]

Dont bother arguing with him. He thinks the Mavs are mentally tough enough to win it all due to beating the Spurs in 2006.

You have to be to beat San Antonio. Oh wait, that's right, Timmy had an ingrown toenail, Dallas "got all the calls," etc. Other teams aren't allowed to make excuses, just the retarded segment of the Spurs' fanbase.

[lefty]

You have to be to beat San Antonio. Oh wait, that's right, Timmy had an ingrown toenail, Dallas "got all the calls," etc. Other teams aren't allowed to make excuses, just the retarded segment of the Spurs' fanbase.

With Duncan healthy, Spurs would have won in 5 ; really

[bdictjames]

Nobody was really great against the series except Duncan. Plus the Mavs had that mental toughness and Dirk was unstoppable. I wouldnt even be surprised if the Spurs got beat in 5 or 6.

But good thing Spurs bounced back, and now we have another title. :)

[lefty]

Nobody was really great against the series except Duncan. Plus the Mavs had that mental toughness and Dirk was unstoppable. I wouldnt even be surprised if the Spurs got beat in 5 or 6.

But good thing Spurs bounced back, and now we have another title. :)


Yep ; still owning Texas

[Findog]

With Duncan healthy, Spurs would have won in 5 ; really


This is the best series I've ever played," Duncan said

He averaged 32 and 13 in that series. Please, do go on about how limited and only partially effective he was.

[ShoogarBear]

Tim Donaghy was behind this trade!!!!!!! :madrun :madrun

[itzsoweezee]

this best day of all days to be a suns hater

LMAO AT THE SUNS

[lefty]

He averaged 32 and 13 in that series. Please, do go on about how limited and only partially effective he was.


He woiuld have averaged 64 and 26 ! :lol

[BigBeezie]

Presti is looking good thus far. Let's remember that Parker, Barbosa, and Manu were all late picks.

Furthermore, the Sonics may end up in a more supportive city.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Sean Marks in the rotation?

:hungry:
According to Steve Kerr on the Xtra 910 Radio Show via BillsCarnage, that will be the case.


Says he believes Sean Marks will "surprise some people" and be a bigger part of things.

So get me a :hungry: with a side of :hungry: .

[Shred]

This board had gone almost 3 days without a Spur fan posting about the Suns. Well done, sir.

[spursreport]

You have to be to beat San Antonio. Oh wait, that's right, Timmy had an ingrown toenail, Dallas "got all the calls," etc. Other teams aren't allowed to make excuses, just the retarded segment of the Spurs' fanbase.

Beating San Antonio doesnt mean a thing if you cant win the ring. Old saying but it is always true. The Broncos dethroned the Patriots and didnt win the Superbowl that same exact year. That win meant nothing unless a championship came with it. Duncans health was fine and the Spurs offense played as well as it could have. Small ball killed us on defense but thats the price you pay for giving the Mavs that much respect. Being unable to stop D-Wade doesnt excuse the 13 point lead with 6:30 left to play in game 3, the criticial missed free throws and the timeout moment Josh Howard made for his idle Chris Webber, and losing that 15 point lead in game 6 (which that series was over after game 5 and Dallas was running on temporary emotion which came to an end after the 1st quarter). The Mavs were just back to being who they truly are during these past 2 playoff series. It is their true identity. :)

[intlspurshk]

BARRY + Elson for Thomas?

[ducks]

thomas does more then barry and elson
thomas can teach durant
elson sucks

[Findog]

Duncans health was fine and the Spurs offense played as well as it could have.

Good, you're admitting we beat you at full-strength. No excuses.



Small ball killed us on defense but thats the price you pay for giving the Mavs that much respect.

The Spurs have to play that way because of our forward tandem. Duncan can't guard Howard or Dirk. We've had this argument before, so no need for me to say any more on the subject.

"Mavs are soft pussies," or whatever your retort, nobody is going to convince the either of anything.

[lefty]

Who cares ? Mavs haven't won shit

[Shred]

Donaghy was ref for Game 3 of the WC Semis (Spurs 108 Suns 101).

[ducks]

:greedy
Donaghy was ref for Game 3 of the WC Semis (Spurs 108 Suns 101).
no shit

[Findog]

Who cares ? Mavs haven't won shit

Apparently you do, otherwise you would let it pass without comment.

[lefty]

Apparently you do, otherwise you would let it pass without comment.

I don't care ; I'm just bored ; the season is over, Spurs are too good ; I'm bored ; we need a challenge ; maybe it'll come from GS

[Findog]

I don't care ; I'm just bored ; the season is over, Spurs are too good ; I'm bored ; we need a challenge ; maybe it'll come from GS

Doubt it...unless the Richardson salary dump was part of a bigger plan to acquire KG, they've taken a big step backwards this offseason. They can't use that TE to get him.

[lefty]

Doubt it...unless the Richardson salary dump was part of a bigger plan to acquire KG, they've taken a big step backwards this offseason. They can't use that TE to get him.


I agree ....I was just kidding ; I was shocked when I read that they left JRich go ....way to fuck up the chemistry

[Findog]

I agree ....I was just kidding ; I was shocked when I read that they left JRich go ....way to fuck up the chemistry

As a Mav fan, I was extremely pleased. I think we lost our composure and poise against the Warriors, but there were also very compelling X's and O's reasons for that series loss, and that bigger and better backcourt was a huge part of it.

[lefty]

True

[spursreport]

As a Mav fan, I was extremely pleased. I think we lost our composure and poise against the Warriors, but there were also very compelling X's and O's reasons for that series loss, and that bigger and better backcourt was a huge part of it.

While the loss Richardson helps a little, he wasnt your big issue. It was Baron Davis. Harris/Terry or anyone on that team can't handle him and are even intimidated of him but I cant blame for that. Say they stand pat, they would still be a matchup nightmare for the Mavs in the backcourt. Slide the other Mav/Irk killer Jax to the 2, Harrington to the 3, and Wright to the 4 along side with Biendris. Now Golden State can punish you inside and still rape you from the perimeter. The only way they will really need a wing is if they lose both Barnes and Pietrus and even then they can use their trade exception to land one. That means Irk, who can't play D if his life depended on it, will be forced to play an offensive player continuing to display what a shitty defender he is.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

He can't guard Duncan. They will get someone else.

He did the best job on Duncan that I've seen in a while.

Terrible move by the Suns. They just downgraded big time in terms of their matchup with us. They are going backwards with respect to the Spurs. :)

[Findog]

While the loss Richardson helps a little, he wasnt your big issue. It was Baron Davis. Harris/Terry or anyone on that team can't handle him and are even intimidated of him but I cant blame for that. Say they stand pat, they would still be a matchup nightmare for the Mavs in the backcourt. Slide the other Mav/Irk killer Jax to the 2, Harrington to the 3, and Wright to the 4 along side with Biendris. Now Golden State can punish you inside and still rape you from the perimeter. The only way they will really need a wing is if they lose both Barnes and Pietrus and even then they can use their trade exception to land one. That means Irk, who can't play D if his life depended on it, will be forced to play an offensive player continuing to display what a shitty defender he is.

Replacing a player of Richardson's caliber with a rookie is going to hurt them in the short-term. Without Richardson, and with a healthy Dampier back, the dynamic changes immediately. They're going to probably only retain one of Barnes/Pietrius, they can't use the TE to land KG, and while Wright will probably go on to have a productive NBA career, expecting him to duplicate Richardson's production right away isn't likely. The Italian is unproven. If Nellie doesn't get his raise, and with less talent overall, he's going to go through the motions next year. The Warriors have gotten rid of some bad contracts but Richardson-Wright is not an even swap at the moment. Baron Davis was their best player in the playoffs, but they didn't take off until Richardson was healthy again. He carried that team into the playoffs.

A lot is riding on whether they're done dealing and if Nellie comes back. So far this off-season has been a big step back for them, and they can probably only salvage it with a KG trade. We'll see what happens next year, Nostradamus. For now anyway, the Warriors are less of a threat to the Mavs than they have been. That was a pure talent and salary dump. Period. They have the rest of the summer to make it back up, depending on what they do.

[spursreport]

Replacing a player of Richardson's caliber with a rookie is going to hurt them in the short-term. Without Richardson, and with a healthy Dampier back, the dynamic changes immediately. They're going to probably only retain one of Barnes/Pietrius, they can't use the TE to land KG, and while Wright will probably go on to have a productive NBA career, expecting him to duplicate Richardson's production right away isn't likely. The Italian is unproven. If Nellie doesn't get his raise, and with less talent overall, he's going to go through the motions next year. The Warriors have gotten rid of some bad contracts but Richardson-Wright is not an even swap at the moment. Baron Davis was their best player in the playoffs, but they didn't take off until Richardson was healthy again. He carried that team into the playoffs.

A lot is riding on whether they're done dealing and if Nellie comes back. So far this off-season has been a big step back for them, and they can probably only salvage it with a KG trade. We'll see what happens next year, Nostradamus. For now anyway, the Warriors are less of a threat to the Mavs than they have been. That was a pure talent and salary dump. Period. They have the rest of the summer to make it back up, depending on what they do.

And the Mavs are lesser of a threat to win it all than they have been due to their past playoff history and them continuing to lack a low post scorer/really do much of anything else to improve their team doesnt help to improve those chances. They have an 8-10 playoff record since beating the Spurs and a 2-8 record since going up 2-0 in the finals. I am sure you were saying the same thing all of last year calling people Nostradamus who said the Mavs would not recover from their finals hangover and look what happened.

BTW A healthy Dampier wouldnt have done shit to change the series and you know that. Was he going to solve your low post problems on offense? Was he going to stop Baron Davis? Was he going to make up for Irk's epic game 6 performance? :dramaquee Pure jumpshooting teams with zero inside presence DONT win titles. You want to keep believing that they do, then prepared to be disapointed again.

[spurscenter]

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f249/Dissonance19/PhoenixSunsSalary.jpg

[Spurs Brazil]

Sonics get Thomas, two first-round picks from Suns
By GARY WASHBURN
P-I REPORTER

The Sonics didn't take long to make a significant deal with their trade exception, as the team's brass continued to build for the future by adding two more draft picks.

The club pulled two first-round picks and veteran center Kurt Thomas away from the Phoenix Suns for an $8 million trade exception and a conditional 2009 second-round pick on Friday.

Neither of the first-round picks -- in 2008 and 2010 -- are protected, meaning the Sonics will have five unprotected first-round picks over the next three years, a key to the team's rebuilding plan. Regardless of how the Suns finish in the NBA standings, the Sonics will receive the Phoenix picks.

Sonics general manager Sam Presti worked feverishly July 11 to work a sign-and-trade deal with Orlando for Rashard Lewis, who would get a sixth year and an additional $23 million with that deal, and received a $9.3 million trade exception.

That allowed the Sonics to entertain offers for that exception, which allowed them to net a player without matching salaries from teams looking to reduce payroll. The Suns are about $10 million over the luxury and needed to shave Thomas' $8.1 million salary off the books.

Thomas, who turns 35 on Oct. 4, was a key piece to the Suns' playoff runs in a limited role. He averaged 4.6 points and 5.7 rebounds in 67 games last season and remains one of the league's top post defenders.

"Kurt will be great with our young guys," Presti said. "He is a leader in the locker room and a good defender. He is a guy we really wanted."

It was Steve Kerr's first major transaction as Phoenix's general manager and he knows Presti from their days in San Antonio. Presti was intent on receiving draft picks for the trade exception instead of aging players with poor or unwanted contracts.

Thomas now gives the Sonics more depth at center and another mentor for Robert Swift, who is coming off surgery on his torn right anterior cruciate ligament and expected to log significant minutes this season.

"We see Kurt as a mentor to the big guys and a good mix," Presti said. "Even if we didn't have the trade exception, Kurt is really one of the guys we wanted. And this allows us to help build with the draft picks. That was the key to getting this thing done."

Thomas was the 10th overall pick in the 1995 draft and has played with Miami, Dallas, the New York Knicks and Phoenix. His best season was in 2000-01 when he averaged 13.9 points and 9.1 rebounds for the Knicks.

He has been troubled by injuries over the past few seasons, missing six weeks last season with a hyperextended left elbow and 27 games in 2005-06 with a right foot stress fracture.

The moment Thomas exercised his player option for next season, the Suns placed him on the trade block in an attempt to avoid paying the league's luxury tax. Any team with a payroll over $67.865 million will have to pay $1 for every dollar they are over that figure and the Suns stockpiled more than $78 million in salaries before the trade.

"I wasn't really surprised," Thomas told The Arizona Republic. "My name has been out there this summer. I definitely knew something could happen. I'm not upset. I knew this was part of the business. My thing is to be prepared for any situation and make the best of my opportunity."

COLLISON GETS INVITE: While Luke Ridnour did not choose to appear at the USA Basketball minicamp this weekend in Las Vegas, Sonics forward Nick Collison received an invitation to join the team for workouts beginning Aug. 13 in Las Vegas.

The team will play in the FIBA Championships beginning Aug. 22 in an attempt to qualify for the 2008 Olympic Games. The USA team is short of post players with Greg Oden (tonsillectomy), Carlos Boozer (family reasons) and Brad Miller (sore foot) missing the minicamp, giving an opportunity to the 6-foot-9 Collison.

PRESEASON SCHEDULE: The club released its preseason schedule Friday and it includes games in Vancouver, B.C., against the Phoenix Suns on Oct. 26; in Bakersfield, Calif., against the Los Angeles Lakers on Oct. 18; and in Portland against Oden on Oct. 24.

The Sonics, entering their 41st and perhaps final season in Seattle, will host the Houston Rockets on Oct. 20 and Golden State Warriors on Oct. 23.

Full schedule, D9

SONICS GET SUMMER WIN: Free agent Olu Famutimi scored 13 points and Jeff Green added 11 points and 10 rebounds in the Sonics' 85-79 win over the Dallas Mavericks at the Rocky Mountain Revue.

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/basketball/324510_sonx21.html

[Bruno]

The 2010 first round pick is unprotected ? :spin

Suns could be a lottery team in 2010 : Nash will be 36 years old, Marion will be an unrestricted free agent in 2009 and Stoudamire's knees could be done.

[Findog]

I am sure you were saying the same thing all of last year calling people Nostradamus who said the Mavs would not recover from their finals hangover and look what happened.

I don't make predictions 10 months in advance. I don't know what's going to happen next year and neither do you. What I do know is that it's foolish to write off a team forever when Terry and Dampier are the oldest members of our core at 31 and 30.


BTW A healthy Dampier wouldnt have done shit to change the series and you know that. A healthy Dampier would've helped Dallas, by allowing us to play our normal rotation and by providing interior defense, and you know it. I didn't say it would've decisively changed the series,but it would've given Dallas a better chance to win. Our perimeter defense isn't very good, and without Dampier back to protect the rim on dribble penetration, we were fucked. One of the ways you beat smallball is winning the rebounding advantage, we didn't have one with him out. If you can't understand these basic basketball concepts, then I can't help you.

[Notorious H.O.P.]

Who is out there in terms of free agents that the Suns can get with that trade exception? And regarding currently signed players, they could always trade it now or at mid-season for a player that they feel can push them over the top.

Hopefully it was a penny pinching move and they don't use the exception to strengthen themselves.

[Darkwaters]

Who is out there in terms of free agents that the Suns can get with that trade exception? And regarding currently signed players, they could always trade it now or at mid-season for a player that they feel can push them over the top.

Hopefully it was a penny pinching move and they don't use the exception to strengthen themselves.

It would probably have to be a big. After trading away Thomas I'm not sure who they expect to step up. I mean, they already have zero bench to begin with.