Tony or Manu???

[O-Factor]

I pose a better question than "Is it TD's Team or TP's team in 08". Who is more vauable to the Spurs, Manu gor Tony? Tony has become a premire point gaurd in the league and he hasn't even reached his peak yet. But Manu has been invaluable to this team. Im glad we have them both, but who is second and third in the pecking order?

[lefty]

I really don't want to answer that question

[Kermit]

Sloooooooooooow Summer.

Who is better, my left or right testicle? My left one hangs a little lower, but my right one is bigger. I just don't know, but I'm glad to have them both.

[O-Factor]

Sloooooooooooow Summer.


yeah it is...

[sa_kid20]

long haired Manu

[lefty]

long haired Manu


Interesting ; I've always thought that long haired Manu was more agressive and confident than short haired Manu ; weird, but true

[BigBeezie]

It's hard to say. Manu is probably the best 6th man the Spurs have ever seen. Yet, TP is only 25 and has 3 rings as a starter.

Potential = TP
Balls = Manu

[lqbeyond]

Tp=manu

[Hemotivo]

1º Manu
2º TP

[O-Factor]

long haired Manu

lol, long haird manu did seem to be more of an attacker

[jag]

The spurs could win without Manu i think, not the case with parker.

[Extra Stout]

They are equally valuable, according to the terms of the multilateral treaty among the US, France, and Argentina.

[Hemotivo]

TP without Manu = NO RING

[ducks]

this is how you start a war in this forum thread

[bdictjames]

Who is better, my left or right testicle? My left one hangs a little lower, but my right one is bigger. I just don't know, but I'm glad to have them both.

:lol

[Shred]

Donaghy was ref for Game 3 of the WC Semis (Spurs 108 Suns 101).

[lefty]

Donaghy was ref for Game 3 of the WC Semis (Spurs 108 Suns 101).

Bitter loser fan; best teams win

[rob5]

The spurs could win without Manu i think, not the case with parker.
Wrong, the Spurs have already won at least one Championship with Parker on the bench during crunch time.

[Sense]

this is how you start a war in this forum thread


haha exactly... this was gonna be my post...

do you realize that these threads make fans hate Manu or Parker depending on who they choose?

[stéphane]

Tony the first three quartes and Manu in the fourth.
As the fourth count triple I think it makes it a tie.
Glad to have them both to support TD.

[aaronstampler]

You know someday WWIII will start all because of a message board flame war...

[justanotherspursfan]

I've always been a bigger fan of Manu than Tony by far, but at this point, it's got to be Tony.

[ForeverManu]

Yes, Manu is invaluable, as you said. But will Pop agree with you?
I want to tell you: Without Manu, we can not won the Suns. Of course no Champion this year.

[SpursIndonesia]

Tony the first three quartes and Manu in the fourth.
As the fourth count triple I think it makes it a tie.
Glad to have them both to support TD.

I second your notion. But if the Spurs should trade either of them, i think Tony would give us a better exchange in value. :p:

[Shadow Raven]

Who do you think the man can stop Nash?
Manu is the one!It is far to be a question!
He is always so powerful but nobody care him.C'ause he is so patient and only victory can make him smile!

[RC's Boss]

Tony.... 2 guards come a dime a dozen. Manu is crafty when getting to the rim and his 3 pt shooting was tremedous this year, but he's still a 2. If you get a PG that improves year after year and goes fearlessly to the basket just like Manu, plus an excellent finisher, you make the day you drafted him an official holiday.

[stéphane]

Who do you think the man can stop Nash?
Manu is the one!It is far to be a question!
He is always so powerful but nobody care him.C'ause he is so patient and only victory can make him smile!
that post really made my day. Some parents should just try to keep their child away from the keyboard. :donkey

[spursfan09]

:lol This will never come to end. I can imagine Spurs fans 50 years from now "Manu or Tony!?"

[O-Factor]

Tony.... 2 guards come a dime a dozen. Manu is crafty when getting to the rim and his 3 pt shooting was tremedous this year, but he's still a 2. If you get a PG that improves year after year and goes fearlessly to the basket just like Manu, plus an excellent finisher, you make the day you drafted him an official holiday.

You make a great argument and I would have to agree. Hard to believe Gino is 3rd best on the team but when you have Duncan and Parker, its easier to believe.... Everyone in the league would love to have their 3rd best player of the caliber Gino is...

[RC's Boss]

You make a great argument and I would have to agree. Hard to believe Gino is 3rd best on the team but when you have Duncan and Parker, its easier to believe.... Everyone in the league would love to have their 3rd best player of the caliber Gino is...
I'm by no means saying Manu isn't an integral part of the team. W/ out either of the big 3 there'd be no trophies. They all bring something which, if only 2 or on, SA still has a chance to win. If all 3 are on... UNSTOPPABLE! It's just that what Manu brings to the table is easier to replace than what Tony brings at his position.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

I think I'll plead the fifth on this one...

[stéphane]

I'm by no means saying Manu isn't an integral part of the team. W/ out either of the big 3 there'd be no trophies. They all bring something which, if only 2 or on, SA still has a chance to win. If all 3 are on... UNSTOPPABLE! It's just that what Manu brings to the table is easier to replace than what Tony brings at his position.
what he brought against Detroit in the finals was just sick...
give me five active player that could have done something like the behind back lay up or the "i'm going from the corner through your supposed unbreakable defense to put a lay'up-->dunk on your entire team...
I love both for what they brought SA but forget about that. Tim is the man.

[RC's Boss]

Well when you find another 2 guard that does more for a team than Manu does other than Kobe and Wade.

I'm talking about steals, having the ball in his hands at the end of games; attacking the rim, shooting threes; taking charges; making freethrows; playing 110% everytime out..and only cares about winning I would like to know.

This thread is stupid they are both equally important and lets leave it at that!
Soon as you show me another PG than goes to the rim at will. Finishes while banging against goliaths under the basket and still scoring. Hitting lay ups as he's falling to the floor. Tim said it himself, that defenses make it a point to keep him out of the lane and he still gets by them EVERYTIME! If Manu were gone, would the new 2 be better, maybe not, but as I said it's a position that is much more easily replaceble. I never said anything about going on a scavenger hunt for a SG! :madrun Replace Manu w/ a Carter, Richardson, Magette, Roy, etc.... depending on your role players, you still contend for the next 3 years. Take away Tony and add Kidd, Ridenhour, Felton, etc.... you go home. The kid is built for this system. The only PG's I see fitting in here other than Tony are Deron and Paul, and neither of them can keep their defenders in front of them worth a shit.

[RC's Boss]

This thread is stupid they are both equally important and lets leave it at that!
It's a fan forum, that's what it's for... to talk about stupid shit :smokin

[Lady M]

Tim is the most important
but it's a team game
if we have the Knicks money we can take Kidd and Kobe but we don't and for there value they are the best for the spurs

[WalterBenitez]

Manu, obviously watch the championship games who asked the ball the latest minutes.

Next question?

Beno or Rasho? :wakeup

[RC's Boss]

Manu's the clutchest performer on the Spurs, so yes he should have the ball at the end of games. But Tony sets the tempo and puts ALL defenses on their heels. Games are 48 min. and of those 48 min. of the past 2 seasons, he has been the most consistent. Hell, even the coach said that!

[ArgSpursFan]

I'm by no means saying Manu isn't an integral part of the team. W/ out either of the big 3 there'd be no trophies. They all bring something which, if only 2 or on, SA still has a chance to win. If all 3 are on... UNSTOPPABLE! It's just that what Manu brings to the table is easier to replace than what Tony brings at his position.

I dont agree at all.manu is capable to play all 3 perimetrals possitions.PG,SG and SF.and during his NBA carreer he has guarded PGs ofcourse SGs and SFs.
Can Tony do that???
Examples:he guarded Prince(and locked him out) in the 05 finals(SF)he also guarded Lebron when Bruce was on the bench last championship.
I would like to see tony playing another possition besides PG,to see what happens.
Bottom line:they both need each other.

[RC's Boss]

I dont agree at all.manu is capable to play all 3 perimetrals possitions.PG,SG and SF.and during his NBA carreer he has guarded PGs ofcourse SGs and SFs.
Can Tony do that???
Examples:he guarded Prince(and locked him out) in the 05 finals(SF)he also guarded Lebron when Bruce was on the bench last championship.
I would like to see tony playing another possition besides PG,to see what happens.
Bottom line:they both need each other.
Prince is hardly an offensive threat IMO. And Manu isn't going to play PG for 30+ min. just like Tony won't play the 2 spot that long. I merely stated who has more value to the team. If you guys think Manu is, then fine, but personally, I think it's just b/c most of you are Manu fans and therefore form biased opinions (my opinion of course). There is only one way to prove it (which would really fuck things up), put them both on the trading block and see how much MORE teams would be willing to give up for Tony (also pretend age isn't a factor, result would still be the same). One truth that is not an opinion, but the norm is that post players are sought after most by pretty much any team wanting to contend, 2nd position is not a 2 guard, it's the one spot! It's nothing against Manu as I said. Tony just has a bigger role. He has the ball more of course being a PG, he also has more go to plays, an he is the 2nd biggest priority for teams defensive schemes (many times 1st). Manu is great, but he ain't Wade (on offense, his d is much better than Wade's) or Kobe (on both ends). That is why I say Tony. it doesn't mean Manu isn't great, can't defend multiple positions, or carry the offensive load. It just means that for the Spurs to contend (as long as Tim is around of course), Tony has to be that 2nd guy. The offense would be back to the days when teams would double Tim and everyone else just stands around. Manu can penetrate almost as well as Tony, but Tony does his damn thing every night.

[RC's Boss]

Examples:he guarded Prince(and locked him out) in the 05 finals(SF)he also guarded Lebron when Bruce was on the bench last championship.
Bottom line:they both need each other.
Don't forget, while Tony couldn't handle the larger Billups posting him up (Bruce played him down the stretch), Tony stayed in front of Rip w/ no problem. Rip had to commit an offensive foul (that wasn't called) just to get a shot off in front of Tony at the end of reg. (he missed too).

[pjjrfan]

I'm just glad they are both on the team and signed up for a good while. But as a long time fan of the NBA a player like Manu doesn't come around very often. The guy is a gem and a winner in every sense of the word. While Tony has perhaps more talent, you'll never ever see Manu concede anything, the guy will fight to the bitter end on a basketball court and I absolutely love that about him.

[jay014]

Tony.How about trading Manu to Atlanta for Josh Smith he's young averages the same amount of points,8.5 boards,and about 3 blocks. Can play the 2,3,4.

[SequSpur]

I see a bunch of dumb asses in this topic.

[Brutalis]

They are equally valuable, according to the terms of the multilateral treaty among the US, France, and Argentina.
:lol geez

[Supreme_Being]

It's a fan forum, that's what it's for... to talk about stupid shit :smokin

Well said.

[rob5]

Parker plays more minutes and handles the ball more since he is the pg. If you gave them equal floor time and ball time, Mr. "24 straight points" would come out on top every game. And that's just scoring. When it comes to defence, hustle, steals and firing up your team, Manu owns all that. So better all around player by far.

[RC's Boss]

Parker plays more minutes and handles the ball more since he is the pg. If you gave them equal floor time and ball time, Mr. "24 straight points" would come out on top every game. And that's just scoring. When it comes to defence, hustle, steals and firing up your team, Manu owns all that. So better all around player by far.
He's still a 2 guard. PG's are much more valuable. Let it go!

[RC's Boss]

It's funny everyone always talks about scoring.. well if that is the case than Tony is more valuable than Duncan.



I never said anything about ppg. I said he's the second option and that's whether manu comes off the bench or not.

[RC's Boss]

If Manu had an ego.. [/OUOTE] He'd be gone :rolleyes
[QUOTE=adam8065]Now if Manu and Tony were both 25 years old I guarantee a ton of folks would take be taking Manu over Tony, but he isn't so it's a moot point.


Bullshit. Quality PG's are almost as scarce as post players. Kobe and Wade are the only 2 guards GM's would take over a Finals MVP PG w/ 3 rings.

[WalterBenitez]

I see a bunch of dumb asses in this topic.

Are you in front of a mirror? :oops

[manubili]

Manu has been better than Tony for four years 2003 - 2006. In 2007 Tony improved a LOT, and he became the second best. And that's how it will be for the next years. It's not Manu's fault, it's just a natural question of aging and peaking in the right moment.

Of course, as a Manu fan, I would love to see the long haired manu doing crazy things and winning championships in 2008-09, becoming MVP and stuff, but I know it's whishfull thinking.

It's Manu, you never know what happens next.

[J.T.]

They are both important to the team and helped us win 3 more championships. It's like comparing two $1 bills. In the end no matter how different those bills are, they're still worth $1.

[mavs>spurs2]

He's still a 2 guard. PG's are much more valuable. Let it go!

The best player ever was also a shooting guard...

[RC's Boss]

The best player ever was also a shooting guard...
Okay. Now give me your 5 next best :rolleyes

[RC's Boss]

Sorry I guarantee GM's would take D Williams over Tony because of his age and he is younger.


Deron is not a 2 guard :madrun

[ArgSpursFan]

Okay. Now give me your 5 next best :rolleyes


Kobe is one of them too.

[LocosPorJuana]

While Mr.longoria is on his honey moon, Manu has already begun his off season workouts.

scola/manu/juan carlos navarro sound clips
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[SpursIndonesia]

Well age does play a factor and so does shot selection Tony for a point guard shoots more than our shooting guard that is why his numbers look better. Pop plays Manu his minutes because he doesn't want to risk injury...not that Manu is not capable of playing more minutes.

Also Pop always gives the ball to Manu at the end of games because he makes the right decisions.

If Manu had an ego.. he would demand to shoot more than Tony does because he is the shooting guard...he wouldn't come of the bench to help make the team better.

Now if Manu and Tony were both 25 years old I guarantee a ton of folks would take be taking Manu over Tony, but he isn't so it's a moot point.

But to say Tony is more valuable because Manu is a shooting guard is lame too; you compared Manu to Richardson, Corey M sorry Manu is ten times more valuable than them.

It's funny everyone always talks about scoring.. well if that is the case than Tony is more valuable than Duncan.

Another thing Manu scores most of his points with the second unit...which is testament to how good he is. Everyone knows that Manu is the first option with the scrubs out there but he still manages to score and contribute.

Well than where was Tony in 2005 in the finals if he was the second option for the team?

Tony is quicker than everyone out there, but As long as Tim is anchoring the block the Spurs will contend.

It's also funny how Pop said that without Manu the Spurs would have 2 less titles.

We can agree to disagree.

LOL, Tony shoots more because he's a higher % scorer than Manu. Ofcourse, when the 4th quarter comes, he knows how to defer to league best closer playing as a Spur -example, game 4 '07 finals.

And anybody saying that 25 yrs old Tony has the same value in trading purpose against 25 yrs old Manu is just blatant fanboy. 25 yrs old Manu was a rookie out of europe -an MVP nonetheless, while a 25 yrs old Tony is finals MVP for heavens sake. Even @Manu's peak in 2005 finals, his value is still not as high as what Tony has at the moment.

Stephane's original first post already explained my position, so fanboism is not a word in my book.

[SpursIndonesia]

And claiming that Tony has got nothing to do with '03 and '05 championships is just totally retarded. Everybody had their time to shine the post seasons, Tony had several of them -though he only got that consistently so both side of the floor in '07 and peaking at the right time in finals, unlike before.

[meta2007]

Manu is unique! There are many players who are similar to TP.

[Cherry]

Tony or Manu? = orange or apple? :lol

[ForeverManu]

Then try to trade Manu and see if the Spurs can get one more ring.
I can guarantee you will wait and wait until another TD&MG&TP came up.

[RC's Boss]

I never said Deron was a 2 guard I thought Deron was center...do you even read what I write?

I was making a comment on this quote from you



And I said since Deron is younger by your assumption GM's would take him over Tony! Also another thing the 3 rings are irrelevant. Just because Tony has 3 rings doesn't make a better point guard he has always been on a better team. Tony didn't do anything for the first two rings, but he did a lot for the 3rd one. Tony was blessed to brought to San Antonio and play along Duncan that is why he has 3 rings same thing for Manu.

You need to understand Tony is a star and So is Manu and Tim Duncan is a SuperStar!!!!

Manu is equally as important as Tony is. Maybe if Manu was more hollywood and demanded the ball more, or whined about being moved to the bench maybe you would appreciate how important he is for the Spurs.

Maybe Pop should also stop putting the ball in his hands at the end of games because he is the 3rd option. It's nice how he won games 5 and 6 against the Suns and game 4 against the Cavs.

And Tony is not a better player than Manu...the only reason he is more valuable to GM's as you say is because of age...of course Gm's would take a 25 year old over a 30 year old anyday.
Yes I'm reading your posts, and I'll say it again. There isn't a GM in the NBA that would take ANY SG OTHER THAN WADE OR KOBE in a trade before taking Tony, that includes Manu. I didn't say he had overall better b-ball skills, I said he's a PG w/ 3 rings one in which he was Finals MVP. I don't care what team he played against, it's still the NBA. He was consistant throughout the ENTIRE playoffs, not game 3 against so and so. Hell, Pop is blessed for coaching the team Tim is on as well. The thread says Tony OR Manu, not Tony VS Manu. You can argue all you want, the position Tony plays, w/ his level of experience, is a much more valueble commodity to have on your roster than any SG outside of Kobe and Wade.

[RC's Boss]

Kobe is one of them too.
If you consider Kobe one of the top 5 greatest ever, that's your opinion dude. After MJ, I'm going w/ a combo of Bird, Magic, Kareem, Hakeem, Wilt, Tim, Shaq, and possibly 3-7 others before Kobe Bean can hop on board.

[RC's Boss]

Then try to trade Manu and see if the Spurs can get one more ring.
I can guarantee you will wait and wait until another TD&MG&TP came up.
:rolleyes

[RC's Boss]

[QUOTE=adam8065]I never said Deron was a 2 guard I thought Deron was center...do you even read what I write?

I said SG and you named a PG. And why the fuck did you think he was a center. I'll move on to another thread, but before I do. I didn't assume age would be a factor. Are you reading my posts???? I said even if age weren't a factor, GM's would still take Tony

[RC's Boss]

I said he was a center because I was being facetious... And if you read my posts the only reasons Gm's would take Parker is because he is younger!!!!! He isn't a better player he doesn't do more for the Spurs than Manu does.. he has more upside because of age period.
Oh it's that time of the month. that explains the irrational thinking.

[anakha]

I pose a better question than "Is it TD's Team or TP's team in 08". Who is more vauable to the Spurs, Manu gor Tony? Tony has become a premire point gaurd in the league and he hasn't even reached his peak yet. But Manu has been invaluable to this team. Im glad we have them both, but who is second and third in the pecking order?

Once the dust had settled, the fires died out, and the dead counted, historians looked back at this time and pinpointed these words as the trigger that began the devastation of World War III...

:downspin:

[TMTTRIO]

Of course Tim is the man but they're both really important pieces to win a championship. Tony is one of the best point guards in the league as of right now and will continue to get better and Manu is one of the clutchest players in the league. It's funny to see how he can have an off game and then come back and kill the other team when start getting comfortable. I love the look on the other teams faces when he starts doing that to them. I found this article. I don't agree with Tim being left off of that clutch list but Manu is in pretty good company.


http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/7048992?CMP=OTC-K9B140813162&ATT=73
Who are the best clutch players currently in the NBA? Who should a competent NBA coach hope to have the ball with a game on the line and the shot clock ticking down? — Robert Vard, Dublin, Ireland

Since win-or-lose players also have to be good free-throw shooters, Tim Duncan doesn't make the cut. LeBron James and Gilbert Arenas are likewise too iffy from the stripe.

The vote here is an obvious one — Kobe Bryant. Just a tad behind is Derek Fisher, if only because he can't create his own good looks as well as Kobe. Also on the list are Manu Ginobili, Steve Nash, Dwayne Wade and Chauncey Billups.

[RC's Boss]

Good night all. This was one of the best debates I've had on here.

[mathbzh]

If I judge their career so far Manu>Parker.
But Tony grew up and now Parker=Manu.

For those who think he "did nothing" in 03 and 05... he still managed to have 14pt/3.5ast and 17.8/4.3 in playoffs these years. Not exacly nothing even if he had some hard time.

[SpursIndonesia]

Funny that Tony did it against the Mighty Cavs and Manu did it against the pathetic Pistons that took the Spurs to 7 games!

No matter whoever doing what to whomever, the end result is still the same, championship. Are you saying that '07 ring has lesser value compared to '05 one simply because we faced a relatively weaker opponent in the final, who actually had beaten that Pistons team in the first place to actually get there ?

IMHO, why is it so hard for Manu homer to undestand, that in the Spurs system, both Manu and Tony are equal in term of value & importance, behind TD, but should you go to the open market, Tony's value is clearly higher, not because he's the better player compared to Manu or simply younger, but because of playing the PG spot in a winning team that win championships.

[WalterBenitez]

Trade Manu to Mavs and they'll got a ring :lmao

[Testing]

Tony.... 2 guards come a dime a dozen. Manu is crafty when getting to the rim and his 3 pt shooting was tremedous this year, but he's still a 2. If you get a PG that improves year after year and goes fearlessly to the basket just like Manu, plus an excellent finisher, you make the day you drafted him an official holiday.


So are shooting guards who are willing to come off the bench for the better-ment of the team, without saying anything and poutting thier ego's aside a dime a dozen? What about shooting guards who can continue their high production coming off the bench instead of starting?

It's hard to find a shooting guard who's also an "X-FACTOR". Most shooting guards are a team's primary offensive weapon and player. They don't bring the other "intangibles" that a SG like Ginobili can bring to a team....hence my problem with so many 2 guards in this league.

[RC's Boss]

With all this said, the SG position is my favorite position to watch from a fans perspective, just like doggystyle is my favorite position from a cocksman's perspective...

[SpursIndonesia]

Trade Manu to Mavs and they'll got a ring :lmao
Depends on what part(s) that we receive back in the trade, nothing's guaranteed in the playoffs -unless TD's involved, should Avery have Pop bizarre photos with some delicate fauna's and capable of forcing the Spurs trading TD & Manu for NoRingski + Howard.

[waly.mg]

Is very Difficult, specially because i´m from Argentina

www.82games.com

Top Five-Man Floor Units
# Unit Min
1 Parker-Ginobili-Bowen-Oberto-Duncan 290
2 Parker-Barry-Bowen-Duncan-Elson 245
3 Parker-Ginobili-Bowen-Duncan-Elson 173
4 Parker-Ginobili-Bowen-Horry-Duncan 172
5 Parker-Finley-Bowen-Duncan-Elson 139
6 Parker-Finley-Bowen-Oberto-Duncan 129
7 Parker-Ginobili-Finley-Bowen-Duncan 111
8 Parker-Barry-Bowen-Oberto-Duncan 109
9 Parker-Finley-Bowen-Horry-Duncan 83
10 Parker-Barry-Bowen-Horry-Duncan 81
11 Parker-Barry-Finley-Bowen-Duncan 63
12 Parker-Ginobili-Barry-Bowen-Duncan 61
13 Udrih-Ginobili-Finley-Horry-Elson 53
14 Vaughn-Ginobili-Finley-Oberto-Horry 53
15 Parker-Ginobili-Bowen-Bonner-Duncan 46
16 Parker-Barry-Bowen-Bonner-Duncan 38
17 Parker-Ginobili-Finley-Horry-Duncan 35
18 Udrih-Barry-Finley-Horry-Elson 34
19 Parker-Ginobili-Barry-Finley-Duncan 31
20 Parker-Barry-Finley-Duncan-Elson 30

Minutes:

Without Manu 951
Without Tony 140
Without Duncan 140
With Tony and Without Manu 917
With Tony and Duncan 917
With Tony and Without Duncan 0
With Duncan and without TP and MG 0
Manu without TP and TD 106
Without TP-TD-MG 34

Individual Player Floor Time statistics
Player Min +/-
Duncan 68% +739
Bowen 62% +589
Ginobili 52% +541
Parker 63% +512

Individual Player Floor Time statistics
Player Min Net48 Win%
Duncan 68% +13.0 77.6
Ginobili 52% +12.6 77.8
Bowen 62% +11.5 74.7
Parker 63% +9.8 75.3

My point is:

Pop never Let Tony plays alone in the Field, always is Manu or Duncan at the same Time
Pop in every game let Manu plays alone in the Field
Tony is always the 2nd Man, the 2nd when Duncan is in the field and the 2nd when Duncan isn´t in the field
Manu is the 3rd when Duncan is in the Field and the 1st when Duncan isn´t

Clutch

Duncan is 33.2 PPG and a Net of +8, 2.9 Net 48 and a Win% of 48.6
Manu is 31.9 PP48 and a Net of +25, 11.7 Net 48, and a Win % of 54.5
Tony is 18.8 PP48 and a Net of -2, -0.7 Net 48, and a Win % of 48.6

Team Production By Position

PG: PER* 19.2 - Opponent 15.2 = +4
SG: PER* 21.2 - Opponent 11.9 = +9.3

I can´t show Duncan here because sometimes is the Spurs Center (49%) and sometimes Spurs PF (19%) of the time

[Chickendog]

need both.

[jay014]

Then try to trade Manu and see if the Spurs can get one more ring.
I can guarantee you will wait and wait until another TD&MG&TP came up.
MUST BE ONE OF THOSE CHICKS WITH A GINOBILIS BABE T-SHIRT.

[bdictjames]

I hope Tony and Manu dont read this.

[Spurs Dynasty 21]

easily Manu, especially if you had to pick one for a must win game

[ArgSpursFan]

Is very Difficult, specially because i´m from Argentina

www.82games.com



My point is:

Pop never Let Tony play alone in the Field, always is Manu or Duncan at the same Time
Pop in every game let Manu play alone in the Field
Tony is always the 2nd Man, the 2nd when Duncan is in the field and the 2nd when Duncan isn´t in the field
Manu is the 3rd when Duncan is in the Field and the 1st when Duncan isn´t
Clutch



Very interesting quote.That means that:Pop doesn´t start manu because He(Pop)needs always one of them on the floor(Manu or Timmy) in order to be the team´s leaders or 1st scoring option,and that´s why Tony is always on the floor with one of them with him.
I´ve never seen it like that before.it makes alot more sence now.

[ducks]

that is why manu should never ever fucking ever start another spur game

[waly.mg]

THA FACTS:

NBA FINALS

GAME #1

07:04 Finley Substitution replaced by Ginobili 1ST Q
04:03 Parker Substitution replaced by Vaughn 1ST Q
01:12 Duncan Substitution replaced by Oberto 1ST Q
10:39 Oberto Substitution replaced by Duncan 2ND Q
10:39 Vaughn Substitution replaced by Parker 2ND Q
08:37 Ginobili Substitution replaced by Bowen 2ND Q
03:42 Finley Substitution replaced by Ginobili 2ND Q
01:47 Duncan Substitution replaced by Horry 2ND Q
06:55 Finley Substitution replaced by Ginobili 3RD Q
02:25 Parker Substitution replaced by Vaughn 3RD Q
00:47 Duncan Substitution replaced by Elson 3RD Q
09:49 Vaughn Substitution replaced by Parker 4TH Q
08:36 Horry Substitution replaced by Duncan 4TH Q
08:36 Ginobili Substitution replaced by Barry 4TH Q
04:13 Barry Substitution replaced by Ginobili 4TH Q

GAME #2

05:21 Finley Substitution replaced by Ginobili 1ST Q
04:09 Duncan Substitution replaced by Elson 1ST Q
01:55 Parker Substitution replaced by Vaughn 1ST Q
00:08 Ginobili Substitution replaced by Bowen 1ST Q
08:43 Vaughn Substitution replaced by Parker 2ND Q
08:43 Ginobili Substitution replaced by Finley 2ND Q
05:37 Bowen Substitution replaced by Ginobili 2ND Q
01:37 Duncan Substitution replaced by Elson 2ND Q
01:26 Ginobili Substitution replaced by Finley 2ND Q
08:45 Finley Substitution replaced by Ginobili 3RD Q
03:20 Duncan Substitution replaced by Oberto 3RD Q
01:34 Parker Substitution replaced by Vaughn 3RD Q
09:58 Oberto Substitution replaced by Duncan 4TH Q
09:58 Ginobili Substitution replaced by Barry 4TH Q
07:24 Vaughn Substitution replaced by Parker 4TH Q
05:34 Bowen Substitution replaced by Ginobili 4TH Q

GAME #3

1st Q Finley Substitution replaced by Ginobili 07:16
1st Q Parker Substitution replaced by Vaughn 02:55
1st Q Duncan Foul:Offensive (2 PF) 00:58 FOUL TROUBLES
1st Q Duncan Substitution replaced by Elson 00:58
2ndQ Vaughn Substitution replaced by Parker 10:23
2ndQ Ginobili Substitution replaced by Barry 08:35
2ndQ Elson Substitution replaced by Duncan 07:13
2ndQ Duncan Foul:Shooting (3 PF) 05:24 FOUL TROUBLES
2ndQ Duncan Substitution replaced by Oberto 05:24
2ndQ Finley Substitution replaced by Ginobili 02:10
3rd Q Finley Substitution replaced by Ginobili 06:50
3rd Q Duncan Substitution replaced by Horry 04:12
3rd Q Parker Substitution replaced by Vaughn 01:43
3rd Q Oberto Substitution replaced by Duncan 01:15
4th Q Vaughn Substitution replaced by Parker 09:17
4th Q Ginobili Substitution replaced by Finley 09:17
4th Q Finley Substitution replaced by Ginobili 04:47

GAME #4

1st Q Finley Substitution replaced by Ginobili 06:14
1st Q Duncan Substitution replaced by Oberto 03:12
2nd Q Tony Out at the Start of the 2nd Q
2nd Q Horry Substitution replaced by Duncan 10:07
2nd Q Ginobili Substitution replaced by Finley 08:31
2nd Q Bowen Substitution replaced by Ginobili 07:36
2nd Q Vaughn Substitution replaced by Parker 06:05
3rd Q Finley Substitution replaced by Ginobili 08:23
3rd Q Duncan Substitution replaced by Oberto 03:52
3rd Q Parker Substitution replaced by Vaughn 01:24
3rd Q Ginobili Substitution replaced by Barry 01:07
3rd Q Oberto Substitution replaced by Duncan 01:07
4th Q Vaughn Substitution replaced by Parker 09:53
4th Q Barry Substitution replaced by Ginobili 09:19

[O-Factor]

that is why manu should never ever fucking ever start another spur game

I wonder where Pop will have Manu in the beginning of the season. As a starter, or comming off the bench. With Finley back, I say bench, let him take 6th man of the year award.

[RC's Boss]

Maybe it's b/c the pick n' roll between Parker and Duncan= instant offense.

[SpursIndonesia]

Yeah, Manu has superstar/leader quality in him, though not proven for a long stint in the game consistently, so the logic of putting him as our no 1 option in the 2nd unit is quite on the money (the big three don't have to fight for ball possesion & share early on). And he is our no 1 closer -IMHO even over Duncan- in the 4th Q, so playing time will never be an issue.

[waly.mg]

Tony alone in the field, is a instant double on him

[waly.mg]

that is why manu should never ever fucking ever start another spur game

Not necesary

I Fix the Minutes of game 1, with the same moves


REAL

GAME #1

07:04 Finley Substitution replaced by Ginobili 1ST Q
04:03 Parker Substitution replaced by Vaughn 1ST Q
01:12 Duncan Substitution replaced by Oberto 1ST Q
10:39 Oberto Substitution replaced by Duncan 2ND Q
10:39 Vaughn Substitution replaced by Parker 2ND Q
08:37 Ginobili Substitution replaced by Bowen 2ND Q (10:31 Minutes)
03:42 Finley Substitution replaced by Ginobili 2ND Q (4:35 IN BENCH)
01:47 Duncan Substitution replaced by Horry 2ND Q
06:55 Finley Substitution replaced by Ginobili 3RD Q
02:25 Parker Substitution replaced by Vaughn 3RD Q
00:47 Duncan Substitution replaced by Elson 3RD Q
09:49 Vaughn Substitution replaced by Parker 4TH Q
08:36 Horry Substitution replaced by Duncan 4TH Q
08:36 Ginobili Substitution replaced by Barry 4TH Q (10:19 Minutes)
04:13 Barry Substitution replaced by Ginobili 4TH Q (4:23 IN BENCH)

FICTION

GAME #1

07:04 Ginobili Substitution replaced by Finley 1ST Q (4:56 Minutes)
04:03 Parker Substitution replaced by Vaughn 1ST Q
01:12 Duncan Substitution replaced by Oberto 1ST Q
01:12 Finley Substitution replaced by Ginobili 1ST Q (5:52 IN BENCH)
10:39 Oberto Substitution replaced by Duncan 2ND Q
10:39 Vaughn Substitution replaced by Parker 2ND Q
08:37 Ginobili Substitution replaced by Bowen 2ND Q (4:35 Minutes)
03:42 Finley Substitution replaced by Ginobili 2ND Q
01:47 Duncan Substitution replaced by Horry 2ND Q
06:55 Ginobil Substitution replaced by Finley 3RD Q (5:05 Minutes)
02:25 Parker Substitution replaced by Vaughn 3RD Q
00:47 Duncan Substitution replaced by Elson 3RD Q
00:47 Finley Substitution replaced by Ginobili 2ND Q (6:08 IN BENCH)
09:49 Vaughn Substitution replaced by Parker 4TH Q
08:36 Horry Substitution replaced by Duncan 4TH Q
08:36 Ginobili Substitution replaced by Barry 4TH Q (4:11 Minutes)
04:13 Barry Substitution replaced by Ginobili 4TH Q

THE BEST MOVES

GAME #1

07:04 Ginobili Substitution replaced by Finley 1ST Q (4:56 Minutes)
04:03 Parker Substitution replaced by Vaughn 1ST Q
04:03 Finley Substitution replaced by Ginobili 1ST Q (3:01 IN BENCH)
01:12 Duncan Substitution replaced by Oberto 1ST Q
10:39 Oberto Substitution replaced by Duncan 2ND Q
10:39 Vaughn Substitution replaced by Parker 2ND Q
08:37 Ginobili Substitution replaced by Bowen 2ND Q (7:26 Minutes)
03:42 Finley Substitution replaced by Ginobili 2ND Q
01:47 Duncan Substitution replaced by Horry 2ND Q
06:55 Ginobil Substitution replaced by Finley 3RD Q (5:05 Minutes)
02:25 Parker Substitution replaced by Vaughn 3RD Q
02:55 Finley Substitution replaced by Ginobili 3RD Q (4:00 IN BENCH)
00:47 Duncan Substitution replaced by Elson 3RD Q
09:49 Vaughn Substitution replaced by Parker 4TH Q
08:36 Horry Substitution replaced by Duncan 4TH Q
08:36 Ginobili Substitution replaced by Barry 4TH Q (6:19 Minutes)
04:13 Barry Substitution replaced by Ginobili 4TH Q

Other considerations:

Manu cosed all the Quarters, because his FT%
If the Spurs are in FT Bonus, Pop generally move TD to the bench

[TDMVPDPOY]

gino>tp

gold medal, world championship...nba success > nba success

[mathbzh]

gino>tp

gold medal, world championship...nba success > nba success

The question was not who has the best career so far but who is the most valuable to the Spurs now. That is why I go with a gino=TP.

[mathbzh]

gino>tp

gold medal, world championship...nba success > nba success
And with your logic Gino>Duncan

[AnotherArgie]

Sloooooooooooow Summer.

Who is better, my left or right testicle? My left one hangs a little lower, but my right one is bigger. I just don't know, but I'm glad to have them both.

:clap