Why Soccer will never be big in the U.S.

[Thunder Dan]

Here is a portion of an essay from Chuck Klosterman's Sex, Drugs and Cocoa Puffs It took me awhile to find it on the net, but it's a very funny, and great read. Check it out, I bet you find yourself laughing.


George Will vs. Nick Hornby

Like many U.S. citizens, I spend much of my free time thinking about the future of sports and the future of our children. This is because I care deeply about sports.

In the spirit of both, I've spent the last fifteen years of my life railing against the game of soccer, and exercise that has been lauded as "the sport of the future" since 1977. Thankfully, the future dystopia has never come. But people continue to tell me that soccer will soon become part of the fabric of this country, and that eventually be as popular as football, basketball, karate, pinball, smoking, glue sniffing, menstruation, animal cruelty, photocopying, and everything else that fuels the eroticized, hyper kinetic zeitgeist of Americana. After America placed eighth in the 2002 World Cup tournament, team forward Clint Mathis said, "If we can turn one more person who wasn't a soccer fan into a soccer fan, we've accomplished something." Apparently, that's all that matters to these idiots. They won't be satisfied until we are all systematically brainwashed into thinking soccer is cool and that placing eighth is somehow noble. However, I know this will never happen. Not really. Dumb bunnies like Clint Mathis will be wrong forever, and that might be the only thing saving us from ourselves.

My personal war against the so-called "soccer menace" probably reached it's peak in 1993, when I was nearly fired from a college newspaper for suggesting that soccer was the reason thousands of Brazilians are annually killed at Quiet Riot concerts in Rio de Janeiro, a statement that is-admittedly-half true. A few weeks after the publication of said piece, a petition to have me removed as the newspapers' sports editor was circulated by a ridiculously vocal campus organization called the Hispanic American Council, prompting an "academic hearing" where I was accused (with absolute seriousness) of libeling Pele. If memory serves, I think my criticism of soccer and Quiet Riot was somehow taken as racist., although-admittedly- I'm not completely positive, as I was intoxicated for most of the monthlong episode. But the bottom line is I'm still willing to die a painful public death, assuming my execution destroys the game of soccer (or--at the very least--convinces people to shut the hell up about it).

According to the Soccer Industry Council of America, soccer is the No. 1 youth participation sport in the U.S. There are more than 3.6 million players under the age of 19 registered to play, and that number has been expanding 8% every year since 1990. There has also been a substantial increase in the number of kids who play past the age of 12, a statistic that soccer proponents are especially thrilled about. "These are the players that will go on to be fans, referees, coaches, and players in the future," observed Virgil Lewis, chairman of the United States Youth Soccer Association.

Certainly, I can't argue with Virgil's math: I have no doubt that battalions of Gatorade-stained children are running around the green wastelands of suburbia, randomly kicking a black and white ball in the general direction of tuna netting. However, Lewis's larger logic is profoundly flawed. There continues to be this blindly optimistic belief that all of the brats playing soccer in 2003 are going to be crazed MLS fans in 2023, just as it was assumed that 11 year old players in 1983 would be watching Bob Costas provide play-by-play for soccer games right now. That will never happen. We will never care about soccer in this country. And it's not just because soccer is inherently un-American, which is what most soccer haters tend to insinuate. It's mostly because soccer is geared towards Outcast Culture.

On the surface, one might assume that would actually play to soccer's advantage, as America has plenty of outcasts. Some American outcasts are very popular, such as OutKast. But Outcast culture does not meld with Intimidation Culture, and the latter aesthetic has always been the cornerstone of team sports. An outcast can be intimidating in an individual event-Mike Tyson and John McEnroe are proof-but they rarely thrive in the social environment of a team organism (e.g. Albert Belle, Pete Maravich). Unless your Barry Bonds, being an outcast is antithetical to the group concept. But soccer is the one sport that is the one exception to that reality: Soccer contentiously rewards the outcast, which is was so many adults are fooled into thinking kids love it. The truth is that most kids do not love soccer, they simply hate the alternatives more. For 60% of adolescents in any 4th grade classroom, sports are a humiliation waiting to happen. These are the kids who play baseball and strike out 4 times a game. These are the kids who are afraid to get fouled in basketball, because it only means they're now required to shoot two free throws, which equates to two air-balls. Basketball games actually stops to recognize their failure. And football is nothing more than a ironical death sentence; somehow, outcasts find themselves in a situation where the people normally penalized for teasing them are suddenly urged to annihilate them.

This is why soccer seems like such a respite from all that mortification; it's the one aerobic activity where nothingness is expected. Even at the highest levels, every soccer match seems to end 1-0 or 2-1. A normal 11 year old can play an entire season without placing a toe to a ball and nobody would even notice, assuming he or she does a proper job of running about and avoiding major collisions. Soccer feels "fun" because it's not terrifying- its the only sport where you can't fuck up. An outcast can succeed simply by not failing, and public failure is every outcast's deepest fear. For society's prepubescent pariahs, soccer represents safety.

However, the demand for such an oasis disappears once an outcast escapes from the imposed slavery of youth athletics; by the time they reach the 9th grade, it's perfectly acceptable to quit the team and shop at Hot Topic. Most youth soccer players end up joining the debate team before they turn 15. Meanwhile, the kind of person who truly loves the notion of sports (and perhaps, sadly, unconsciously needs to have sports in their life) doesn't want to watch or play a game designed for losers. They're never going to care about a sport where announcers inexplicably celebrate the beauty of missed shots and the strategic glory or repetitive stalemate. We want to see domination. We want to see athletes who don't look like us, and who we could never be. We want to see people who could destroy us, and we want to feel like that desire is normal. But those people don't exist in soccer; their game is dominated by mono-monikered clones obsessed with falling to their knees and ripping off their clothes.

Soccer fanatics love to tell you that soccer is the most popular game on earth and that it's played by 500 million people every day, as if that somehow proves it's value. Actually, the opposite is true. Why should I care that every single citizen of Chile and Iran and Gibraltar thoughtlessly adore "futball"? Do people making this argument also assume Coca-Cola is ambrosia? Real sports arn't for everyone. And don't accuse me of being the ugly American for degrading soccer. That has nothing to do with it. It's not xenophobic to hate soccer, it's socially reprehensible to support it. To say you love soccer is to say you believe in enforced equality more than you believe in the value of competition and the capacity of human spirit. It should surprise no one that Benito Mussolini loved being photographed with Italian soccer stars during the 1930's; they were undoubtedly kindred spirits. I would sooner have my kid deal crystal meth than play soccer.

That said, I don't think my thoughts on soccer are radical. If push come to shove, I would be more than willing to compromise: It's not necessary to wholly outlaw soccer as a living entity. I concede that it has the right to exist. All I ask is that I never have to see it on T.V., that it's not played in public, and that nobody-and I mean nobody-ever utters the phrase "soccer is the sport of the future"

[Phenomanul]

Myopically biased stubborn isolationism is not a valid reason...

Try again.

If anything the essay (satirical I imagine) shows one of the reasons why the U.S. is shunned by many other countries...

[SAtown]

I really don't give a shit if it's big in the United States or not. I actually think it's hilarious that most Americans care more about women's softball and other sports (or games; like golf, poker, hot dog eating contests, bowling, billiards, etc...). The only thing that gets to me is listening to the ESPN douchebags speak of how Barry Bonds is about the break the "most important record in ALL of sports." :lmao You've gotta be fuckin kidding me...

[Phenomanul]

Yeah, I laughed when I heard that too...

The most coveted record in all sports belongs to 'O Rey' Pelé....

[The_Worlds_finest]

Soccer will never be big in the us because americans have a love for instant gratification. They want to see thier team winning by means of score, they want to see flashy plays that actually "score".

I love basketball but youll never see me travel to other parts of the world to watch our team play in a world wide tourny, unless it was at the oly only cause Im there to watch soccer in the first place!

[MajorMike]

Soccer is the world's game because they aren't smart enough outside the US to come up with better shit than kicking a black and white ball back and forth. And back. And forth. And back. And back...

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

Soccer is the world's game because they aren't smart enough outside the US to come up with better shit than kicking a black and white ball back and forth. And back. And forth. And back. And back...


Like NASCAR?

[cornbread]

Like NASCAR?
Not a fair comparison. We're talking about ACTUAL sports here. Rednecks driving in a circle doesn't fit that desription.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

Soccer is the world's game because they aren't smart enough outside the US to come up with better shit than kicking a black and white ball back and forth. And back. And forth. And back. And back...case closed. With this you showed how ignorant you are about the subject. You don't like it, because you don't care to learn about it, plain and simple. You opinion on the subject just went from poor to irrelevant.

[cornbread]

FYI- the Galaxy game is on tv right now on some spanish language channel. In San Antonio, time warner cable, it's channel 19.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

I don't mind people not liking football, its perfectly understandable, tastes vary... but please refrain from commenting on things you have not a clue about. I don't like American football or baseball, but I'm not about to claim football is better than the two.

The funny thing is, Americans don't like people from around the world touting football as the best sport out there, and yet people in this thread are quick to label the sport as boring and for people "not smart enough" to play anything else? Yeah... that makes sense.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

Soccer will never be popular because it isn't a homegrown sport and networks always fight televising games because there is only one stoppage in play, as opposed to 19 90 second breaks in the NFL, 13 in NCAAF and breaks every half inning in baseball.


I still can't believe that people actually think 1 billion people watch the Super Bowl.

[SAtown]

USA doesn't need soccer, and soccer doesn't need the USA; plain and simple. I mean, being a soccer fanatic, I don't want soccer to turn into a fuckin Hollywood parade as it did when Beckham "arrived" in the USA. They overhyped and diluded his coming to the MLS, mostly because of what The_Worlds_Finest said: Americans want INSTANT GRATIFICATION. They want to see a pretty face, with his pretty-faced wife, playing the world's most popular, most important sport for ONE GAME. It's not the fault of the Americans that they don't "ACCEPT" soccer as an important sport; it's just that they have choices. They are Red Sox fans in the summer, Patriots fans in the fall/winter, and Celtics fans in the spring. The rest of the world refers to "sports" as ONE sport: soccer.

[SAtown]

Soccer will never be popular because it isn't a homegrown sport.

So England should have the only soccer fans in the world?

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

So England should have the only soccer fans in the world?


No, I meant why Americans don't like it.

Take motor sports, for example: Most Americans who love NASCAR don't follow, or even know of, F1 or MotoGP racing.

[SAtown]

No, I meant why Americans don't like it.

Take motor sports, for example: Most Americans who love NASCAR don't follow, or even know of, F1 or MotoGP racing.

I was being sarcastic :toast .

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

I was being sarcastic :toast .

Soccer still sucks.

[SAtown]

Soccer still sucks.

That's your problem..................... aside from being a Lions fan, but that's a topic for another day (and another forum)

[TDMVPDPOY]

the situation in the US, is just like what is happening to the league in australia

no one supports it, even the big corporates dont support it, soccer/football will always be a minority player in australia. When they tried to promote the league, it was on free to air tv, and ppl still didnt watch it, untill a revamp of the league, a proper structure, more govt funding it got back on its toes.

The league only does well when the national team does well, look at the worldcup for example, socceroos did well and ppl started to watch soccer and supporting the national league, and whats fukd up about it is that after that success, the league thought it could make more money and getting more suppporters by not havin free-to air coverage which is wrong. Not many ppl have cable etc so they are either force to attent the games or a joint to watch it.

[resistanze]

No offense...but the fact that NASCAR has a tab on ESPN.com shows why any commentary about the legitimacy of soccer or any sport in general from America should be ignored.....

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

It's just not on enough here.

Plus, what we get is like watching Serie C2.

[SAtown]

No offense...but the fact that NASCAR has a tab on ESPN.com shows why any commentary about the legitimacy of soccer or any sport in general from America should be ignored.....

... which brings me to my next point. ESPN in the USA is such a damn joke. They choose to ignore the more important sports, and show fukin poker in the middle of the night. Change it to ESPN Int. or ESPN deportes and they're showing some kind of sport: Pan American games, basketball, soccer, track & field, swimming, taped Champions League games, fucking something that takes sweat and balls to play.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

Rock, Paper, Scissors isn't sweeping the globe?

[Avitus1]

Probably because attitudes like that.

[BeerIsGood!]

I hope futbol never takes off in the US. It gives me something to watch abroad that I can't watch here - I like that in my vacations.

[Evan]

I hope futbol never takes off in the US. It gives me something to watch abroad that I can't watch here - I like that in my vacations.

Theres always Eastenders!

[ALVAREZ6]

Like NASCAR?:lol

[MajorMike]

case closed. With this you showed how ignorant you are about the subject. You don't like it, because you don't care to learn about it, plain and simple. You opinion on the subject just went from poor to irrelevant.

See, this is the part I love best. Soccer people say they are being objective about all sports and anti soccer people aren't. They have such an elitest opinion and think they are the only people who know anything about anything, and that Americans who don't like soccer are just silly poo-poos. Then those same soccer people turn around and show their true colors.


I really don't give a shit if it's big in the United States or not. I actually think it's hilarious that most Americans care more about women's softball and other sports (or games; like golf, poker, hot dog eating contests, bowling, billiards, etc...). The only thing that gets to me is listening to the ESPN douchebags speak of how Barry Bonds is about the break the "most important record in ALL of sports." :lmao You've gotta be fuckin kidding me...



USA doesn't need soccer, and soccer doesn't need the USA; plain and simple. I mean, being a soccer fanatic, I don't want soccer to turn into a fuckin Hollywood parade as it did when Beckham "arrived" in the USA. They overhyped and diluded his coming to the MLS, mostly because of what The_Worlds_Finest said: Americans want INSTANT GRATIFICATION. They want to see a pretty face, with his pretty-faced wife, playing the world's most popular, most important sport for ONE GAME. It's not the fault of the Americans that they don't "ACCEPT" soccer as an important sport; it's just that they have choices. They are Red Sox fans in the summer, Patriots fans in the fall/winter, and Celtics fans in the spring. The rest of the world refers to "sports" as ONE sport: soccer.


I have to be honest, I think most Americans can handle and even might like soccer. However Americans are stubborn and headstrong, and we hate people from parts unknown telling us how we should love soccer because everyone else does. The true reason we don't like soccer is because the rest of the world says we should... are most of the time are dicks about it.

[ALVAREZ6]

However Americans are stubborn and headstrong, and we hate people from parts unknown telling us how we should love soccer because everyone else does.True, your average American couldn't point out Argentina on a labeled world map.

[Thunder Dan]

True, your average American couldn't point out Argentina on a labeled world map.

I could. I've been to a Chelsea match in England, which would be considered the highest level, and it was still boring. The crowd is more entertaining than the reason you are there. They have to keep themselves entertained by singing and chanting the whole game. It's one of those sports where the people who play it are really the only ones who care about it, kind of like golf. Football in America is different, and there is a part of the essay I posted that talks about it: we see football players on T.V. and know they could kill us. And we are somehow drawn to that. Soccer players are just that, soccer players. They might be the best conditioned athletes in the world, but we could all be them if we wanted to, all we would have to do is eat right and not smoke and we are well on our way to becoming soccer players.

[MajorMike]

The best thing about the match I went to in Russia (Zenit v Spartak) was that someone in the crowd threw a flare right into the foam pads used for the high jump, and they lit right up. They were, in turn, right next to the advertisement boards all around the field, so they started going up in flames as well. The game actually was stopped for quite awhile because of the huge bonfire. Good times.


True, your average American couldn't point out Argentina on a labeled world map.

Probably true. If I were to give them feedback from my jaunts there, I would tell them to not spend much time in Buenos Aires unless they liked the dirty parts of NYC and LA, but to stay in Bariloche.

I guess it is just a sign of what's going on in the world when your average American doesn't know where most Latin American countries are, and your average Argentinian couldn't tell you where Iraq or Israel or Taiwan is.

[SAtown]

Soccer players are just that, soccer players. They might be the best conditioned athletes in the world, but we could all be them if we wanted to, all we would have to do is eat right and not smoke and we are well on our way to becoming soccer players.

I bet you can't even dribble a soccer ball.

[Thunder Dan]

I bet you can't even dribble a soccer ball.

I played indoor soccer up until high school, I bet I can. I bet I can't make a 3 pointer in an NBA game, hit a 90mph fastball (or 85mph curve) or catch a pass across the middle of a NFL game even though I played both basketball and football in high school and baseball till my sophmore year in college

I bet I couldn't even take down a QB in the NFL if I got a open shot at him.

[ALVAREZ6]

Probably true. If I were to give them feedback from my jaunts there, I would tell them to not spend much time in Buenos Aires unless they liked the dirty parts of NYC and LAYou could, but you would be wrong.

[ALVAREZ6]

I could. I've been to a Chelsea match in England, which would be considered the highest level, and it was still boring. The crowd is more entertaining than the reason you are there. They have to keep themselves entertained by singing and chanting the whole game. It's one of those sports where the people who play it are really the only ones who care about it, kind of like golf. Football in America is different, and there is a part of the essay I posted that talks about it: we see football players on T.V. and know they could kill us. And we are somehow drawn to that. Soccer players are just that, soccer players. They might be the best conditioned athletes in the world, but we could all be them if we wanted to, all we would have to do is eat right and not smoke and we are well on our way to becoming soccer players.:lol

Of course we could all be pro soccer players, it's no big deal. Having the skill to pla at the international level is just the minute part of it, the rest is just cake. You're right.


If you wanna be like that, we could all be professional football players as well. It's not like it requires a 6'8" frame, height sure does help in football, but nothing like in basketball. All you gotta do is lift your ass off and take supplements to get huge. Keep in somewhat shape and have the right attitude, sure, if I started over I could be a professional football player.

[NorCal510]

My take is probably more credible in here than mosts.

I played soccer since I was 5 till I was about 11.

SOCCER IS FUCKING BORING!

who can watch a sport where the score can end up 0-0

FUCK SOCCER!

[ALVAREZ6]

My take is probably more credible in here than mosts.

I played soccer since I was 5 till I was about 11.

SOCCER IS FUCKING BORING!

who can watch a sport where the score can end up 0-0

FUCK SOCCER!Baseball can end 0-0 just as easily.

They just keep you at the stadium and you have to sit through extra innings, and by the time you leave you saw yourself a good 6 hours of exciting baseball.

[Thunder Dan]

:lol

Of course we could all be pro soccer players, it's no big deal. Having the skill to pla at the international level is just the minute part of it, the rest is just cake. You're right.


If you wanna be like that, we could all be professional football players as well. It's not like it requires a 6'8" frame, height sure does help in football, but nothing like in basketball. All you gotta do is lift your ass off and take supplements to get huge. Keep in somewhat shape and have the right attitude, sure, if I started over I could be a professional football player.

you could be a pro in the MLS. All you have to do is play soccer for you whole life and you are already well on your way to being MLS material. All of Americas great athletes play football and basketball, they want no part in soccer. So all you have to do is not smoke, and be decent at soccer and you'll be paid 40k a year to play in front of 5,000 people in suburbs of big cities across America.

[ALVAREZ6]

The MLS also blows.

[Thunder Dan]

plus, if you actually read the essay I posted (which I'm sure you didn't). It's true, pro soccer players just look like average guys. People don't idolize guys who look just like them and act like douche bags. We want to be Michael Jordan, Tim Duncan, and other athletes we know we could never be. Thats why people are facinated with Tiger Woods and no other golfer on tour. We are all just like every other golfer on the PGA tour, but nowhere close to Tiger

[NorCal510]

Baseball can end 0-0 just as easily.

They just keep you at the stadium and you have to sit through extra innings, and by the time you leave you saw yourself a good 6 hours of exciting baseball.
how often does that happen?

even if, there's still more to baseball than kicking a ball.

singles/doubles/triples are exciting to see, rather than a pass that happens 2052036026 times in a soccer game.

[Thunder Dan]

how often does that happen?

even if, there's still more to baseball than kicking a ball.

singles/doubles/triples are exciting to see, rather than a pass that happens 2052036026 times in a soccer game.


you can go to a soccer match and only see 1 or 2 shots on goal. Also, you don't even know when it will end. It's 90 minutes, but it might really be 91 or 92, who knows?! Plus, you have to put up with all the douche bags taking off their shirts and crying everytime someone kicks their shin guards.

[ALVAREZ6]

All of Americas great athletes play football and basketball, they want no part in soccer.I'm sure Ronaldinho is a pretty great athlete, Carlos Tevez, and that kid Lionel Messi...these guys have a little athletic ability. If you've seen them on the soccer field, you could tell. If Messi were brought up in the US and he played football in HS, I'm sure he could be a hell of a running back.

Look man, I'm not here to debate which sports are better, because I'm currently in HS and I play football and basketball. But I'm pretty sure that "all of Americas great athletes play football and basketball" comment is just pathetic. My friend that's gonna go to college for soccer is a hell of an athlete, but he sucks ass at basketball and can't play football because of soccer in the fall. He'd be the fastest kid on our team and would make a great RB.

[ALVAREZ6]

plus, if you actually read the essay I posted (which I'm sure you didn't). It's true, pro soccer players just look like average guys. People don't idolize guys who look just like them and act like douche bags. We want to be Michael Jordan, Tim Duncan, and other athletes we know we could never be. Thats why people are facinated with Tiger Woods and no other golfer on tour. We are all just like every other golfer on the PGA tour, but nowhere close to TigerThey act like douche bags? More so than Terrell Owens and Mike Vick, or Allen Iverson?

Don't even talk to me about golf, that shit blows.

[Thunder Dan]

I'm sure Ronaldinho is a pretty great athlete, Carlos Tevez, and that kid Lionel Messi...these guys have a little athletic ability. If you've seen them on the soccer field, you could tell. If Messi were brought up in the US and he played football in HS, I'm sure he could be a hell of a running back.

Look man, I'm not here to debate which sports are better, because I'm currently in HS and I play football and basketball. But I'm pretty sure that "all of Americas great athletes play football and basketball" comment is just pathetic. My friend that's gonna go to college for soccer is a hell of an athlete, but he sucks ass at basketball and can't play football because of soccer in the fall. He'd be the fastest kid on our team and would make a great RB.

yeah becuase they are American. America is the only country where the good athletes don't want any part in soccer

[ALVAREZ6]

how often does that happen?

even if, there's still more to baseball than kicking a ball.

singles/doubles/triples are exciting to see, rather than a pass that happens 2052036026 times in a soccer game.Singles are very exciting to see, you're right.


Dude...all you see on the highlights of a baseball game are a few strike outs, a few pop outs, and maybe 27 plays where the batter is out at first.

[Thunder Dan]

They act like douche bags? More so than Terrell Owens and Mike Vick, or Allen Iverson?

Don't even talk to me about golf, that shit blows.
http://www.queerty.com/queer/usasoccer_brianmcbride4.jpg

nuff said. Soccer is a femme sport. Guys don't want any part in it.

[NorCal510]

I will say this:

The ONLY, ONLY time soccer is entertaining is on end of the game shots or whatever you call them.

The ones where whoever makes the most wins.

ONLY part of soccer that I would watch.

[ALVAREZ6]

So you just wanna check out some hot male bodies?


Just start watching body bulding competitions.

[NorCal510]

http://www.queerty.com/queer/usasoccer_brianmcbride4.jpg

nuff said. Soccer is a femme sport. Guys don't want any part in it.
mike dunleavy?

[ALVAREZ6]

A fucking picture of some McBride guy sure makes your argument. David Big Papi Ortiz probably has a hot bod, same with Roger Clemens. How about Shaq's 6-pack? It doesn't even get better than that.

[Thunder Dan]

I will say this:

The ONLY, ONLY time soccer is entertaining is on end of the game shots or whatever you call them.

The ones where whoever makes the most wins.

ONLY part of soccer that I would watch.


yeah that part isn't so bad, but true soccer guys don't consider that a credible win if they win by penalty kicks.

See hockey is basically soccer, but you would get killed if you put some skates on and skated with those guys. I could fit in on MLS field, and just run around acting like I was doing something.

[NorCal510]

alvarez stop sticking up for your argentinian blood

[Thunder Dan]

A fucking picture of some McBride guy sure makes your argument. David Big Papi Ortiz probably has a hot bod, same with Roger Clemens. How about Shaq's 6-pack? It doesn't even get better than that.
I never have to worry about going to a basketball game or baseball game and having half my team ripping off their shirts for no reason

[ALVAREZ6]

Alright boys I'm off to lifting and then football practice.


ThunderDan, I'll make sure to take a shirtless picture of myself in the mirror for you. From the information you've given me you'd probably enjoy it.

[ALVAREZ6]

I never have to worry about going to a basketball game or baseball game and having half my team ripping off their shirts for no reason
Well, how was that HS football locker room back in your day?


Did you enjoy the showers?

[Thunder Dan]

Alright boys I'm off to lifting and then football practice.


ThunderDan, I'll make sure to take a shirtless picture of myself in the mirror for you. From the information you've given me you'd probably enjoy it.


after you score a goal I expect nothing less than a rip off of the shirt, then prancing around like a little prince and hugging and carrying on with your other shirtless teammates

[NorCal510]

Thunder Dan reminds me of JGW

[Thunder Dan]

Thunder Dan reminds me of JGW


lol who is that?

[NorCal510]

lol who is that?
a stud

[cornbread]

Why do so many people feel so threatened by soccer? I don't get it.

[resistanze]

What the fuck, ya watch sports to look at the athletes' bodies? :lol

Baseball players got some of the fattest guys out there, then when you see a muscular baseball player, they're assumed to be on 'roids. So I doubt the popularity of soccer has anything to do with the physique of soccer players. Are NASCAR drivers buff too?

I've been watching the World Cup since 1990 and I got into European League soccer games like 5-6 years ago. That shit about soccer games ending 0-0 must be some myth that people keep regurgitating. I'd say about 1 every 15-20 matches ends in 0-0 if you observe the English, Spanish and Italian leagues.

[Thunder Dan]

Why do so many people feel so threatened by soccer? I don't get it.

I don't think I'm threatened by it, I'm just tierd of hearing how it will be big in a couple years, when in fact it will never get big in the U.S.

You know Hitler, Saddam and Stalin all loved soccer. That should be to no suprise

[mardigan]

http://www.queerty.com/queer/usasoccer_brianmcbride4.jpg

nuff said. Soccer is a femme sport. Guys don't want any part in it.
So I guess that this does prove that Nash is a women than right? He grew up playing such a femme sport


Btw, I think its funny that you think a guy taking his sweaty ass jersey off after a game is femme, I have seen many, many NBA players take their jerseys off after a game to throw in the crowd, pretty diva huh?

[Thunder Dan]

So I guess that this does prove that Nash is a women than right? He grew up playing such a femme sport


you saw him flop like a soccer stud when he was pushed by Horry. It must hurt getting checked into a padded wall. They should have taken him off on that board they do in soccer

http://i.usatoday.net/sports/_photos/2007/05/14/nash-topper.jpg

[cornbread]

I don't think I'm threatened by it, I'm just tierd of hearing how it will be big in a couple years, when in fact it will never get big in the U.S.

You know Hitler, Saddam and Stalin all loved soccer. That should be to no suprise
You sound very threatened from your numerous attempts discrediting soccer as a sport.

To be honest, I don't think it will ever be big in the US either. There are too many xenophobes who won't accept soccer because isn't "Made in the USA" or they're offended that rest of the world calls it "football". But on the other hand, soccer is very popular with the hispanic population which also happens to be the fastest growing minority group. As this group grows so does their purchasing power. As purchasing power shifts so will trends so who knows.

[Marcus Bryant]

Why do so many people feel so threatened by soccer? I don't get it.

It's much easier to stick with what they know.

[Marcus Bryant]

yeah becuase they are American. America is the only country where the good athletes don't want any part in soccer

Because historically there hasn't been a pro league in the US offering guaranteed decimillion contracts to play the game, among other reasons.

As the MLS grows and player salaries grow, you can bet that the number of athletes playing the game will grow as well.

[Marcus Bryant]

And questioning the athleticism of players in the EPL, La Liga, Bundesliga, MLS, etc...is rather stupid. Sure, you could fit in there, just like you could fit in on a NBA court if you just ran up and down the 94 feet.

[cornbread]

It's much easier to stick with what they know.
Good point. It is more challenging to explore a new sport. Most viewers probably do not want to be challenged when being entertained.

[MajorMike]

But on the other hand, soccer is very popular with the hispanic population which also happens to be the fastest growing minority group. As this group grows so does their purchasing power. As purchasing power shifts so will trends so who knows.


Yeah, didn't you see the minimum wage just went up?

[cornbread]

Yeah, didn't you see the minimum wage just went up?
Please elaborate Captain.

[MajorMike]

Federal minimum wage goes up today


Click-2-Listen
Tuesday, July 24, 2007

By Erin Quinn

Tribune-Herald staff writer

In her black visor and purple Taco Cabana polo shirt, 54-year-old Alice Carreon spent Monday morning sweeping up the Waco fast food restaurant’s parking lot.

Dirty diapers. Beer bottles. Half-drunken fountain drinks that leaked soda on her shoes when she picked them up.

The soft-spoken mother of six and grandmother of 13 has been working in Waco fast food restaurants for the past 10 years. She has no car. And the bills just keep piling up.

She married too young at 15, she said, and never had a chance to have dreams of her own.

While she makes $6.25 an hour, $1.10 more than minimum wage, Carreon is hoping that the federally mandated $2.10 increase in minimum wage which takes effect today will help her.

The raise will be phased in between now and summer 2009. Minimum wage workers will get an additional 70-cent boost each summer for the next two years, ending in 2009 at $7.25 an hour. That comes to just above $15,000 yearly before taxes for a 52-week work year.

Someone in such a job and earning $5.85 an hour would bring home $12,168 a year before taxes. The federal poverty level for singles is $10,210, for couples is $13,690 and is $17,170 for families of three.

Congressman Chet Edwards released a statement Monday saying 1.7 million Texans will benefit from the increase.

“I believe an honest day’s work deserves an honest day’s pay and this needed increase rewards work, not welfare,” he states in the release. “This increase is long overdue.”

The hike in minimum wage is the first in a decade. About 1.7 million people made $5.15 or less in 2006, according to the U.S. Labor Department’s Bureau of Labor Statistics.

“The reality for a minimum wage worker is that every penny makes a difference because low-wage workers make the choice between putting food on the table and paying for electricity or buying clothes for their children,” said Beth Shulman, former vice president of the United Food and Commercial Workers Union.

Poverty and the minimum wage are becoming a major issue in the Democratic presidential race. John Edwards and Barack Obama are emphasizing raising the minimum wage during their tours of impoverished areas.

Edwards, who said he wants to eliminate poverty within a generation, favors raising the minimum wage to $9.50. Obama is advocating a “living wage” that would go up as inflation rises and he has promised to eliminate the phrase “working poor.”

More than two dozen states and the District of Columbia already have minimum wages higher than the federal one. Even in those states, an increase in the federal minimum wage probably will have a ripple effect.

“It’s a long overdue first step,” said Cindia Cameron, the national organizing director of 9to5, the National Association of Working Women. Minimum wage workers typically are young, single and female and are often black or Hispanic.

Even when the full increase is enacted, minimum wage workers will be just scraping by. “It’s not enough money to meet your basic needs, I’m talking about your rent, your gas, and gas to get back and forth to work,” said Sonya Murphy, head organizer of the Mississippi Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now, or ACORN.

But at the same time, employers who pay many of these low-wage workers say increasing the minimum wage only means they have to raise the prices of the products, cut back on employees’ hours or let some workers go.

“When you go into the grocery story now, you may be checking your own groceries, you may be bagging your own groceries,” said Jill Jenkins, chief economist for the Employment Policies Institute. “All of these things are because of mandated wage hikes. When you have to pay more, employers begin to find other options to keep costs down.”

According to the National Restaurant Association, the last minimum wage increase cost the restaurant industry more than 146,000 jobs and restaurant owners put off plans to hire an additional 106,000 employees.

At $7.25 an hour, the most likely response from restaurants will be “increases in menu prices, elimination of some positions and reduction of staff hours to try and offset some of the increased labor costs,” said Brendan Flanagan, the association’s vice president of federal relations.

Others say the effect on the economy will be negligible.

A PNC Economic Outlook survey done in April showed three out of four small- and middle-market business owners said raising the minimum wage would have little or no impact on their businesses. “In a tighter labor market, they already raised wages to be competitive,” said Stuart Hoffman, chief economist for PNC Financial Services Group.

Regardless, Edwards states “The bottom line is that Americans who work in full-time jobs should not be living in poverty in the United States of America.”

The Associated Press contributed to this report.

[Marcus Bryant]

Which of course means all hispanics earn the minimum wage. Did jgw hack CaptMike's handle?

[MaNuMaNiAc]

Christ... the amount of ignorance being displayed in this thread is mind boggling. Capt Mike, you´re just being a dick. You know nothing about football, and yet talk like you're a fucking expert, plus that little dig about Buenos Aires :lol

Let me tell you something son, the average Argentinian knows world geography, THAT we know... its math and physics that fucks us up. As to the part about Buenos Aires being equal to New York's crappy parts just makes me realize you've most likely spent an hour or two going from the airport to the bus terminal to get to Bariloche. You know shit about Buenos Aires, and if you'd known anything about football, you wouldn't have had to resort to idiotic little insults like those to prove your point.

I don't speak for SAtown or the others. I don't think football is the greatest sport. I do think people like you simply bag on football because you don't play it. Its the same bullshit attitude displayed in American politics between Repubs and Demos... "I like this... so anything else is inferior!... fuck whatever makes sense" Its bullshit partisanship.

Football has its qualities and you people saying that you could be a pro football player are out of your fucking minds. It takes a hell of a lot of skill to play professional football, and I'm not talking playing for 40k a year in the states :lol I'm talking the elite. Those bagging on football simply because its not an American sport should really think twice about what they are criticizing and why. I'm not saying you should like it, but don't knock it just because. Same goes for those claiming football is the greatest sport of all time.

[MajorMike]

...Que?

[mardigan]

anyone that has said they could play professional football in this thread, even MLS, is fucking kidding themselves, no matter how long you played it or how good you are at other sports, no chance

[cornbread]

Young, single and female and are often black or Hispanic.
Look. I can copy and paste too

Can you elaborate a little?

[MajorMike]

...Que?


I got that from South Park.

[Phenomanul]

Some of the comments being made by Thunder Dan and NorCal510 are so naive and down right ignorant that they don't even merit responses...

No, Thunder Dan.... you would easily get yanked out of a professional soccer game by minute 10, even if you happened to be in the best shape of your life.

You still need tactical discernment...
skills
talent
and vision...

Since you don't understand the sport well enough to be able to elaborate on why all of these attributes are needed... how then can you even make such comments???

[Thunder Dan]

Good point. It is more challenging to explore a new sport. Most viewers probably do not want to be challenged when being entertained.

I know everything there is to know about soccer. Like I said, I played it up until the 9th grade. It is still boring.

The MLS will never take off. All the great talent in soccer will go overseas to the people who care about it.

[Thunder Dan]

anyone that has said they could play professional football in this thread, even MLS, is fucking kidding themselves, no matter how long you played it or how good you are at other sports, no chance

look at MLS rosters. Most of the guys are just out of college and are playing it b/c it beats any other job out of college. When they get older they just give it up, and the good ones move over seas. It's basically just minor league baseball. Except people actually try to be minor league baseball players so its harder to become one

[cornbread]

I know everything there is to know about soccer. Like I said, I played it up until the 9th grade. It is still boring.

The MLS will never take off. All the great talent in soccer will go overseas to the people who care about it.I didn't mean you personally. More in a general sense.

[mardigan]

I know everything there is to know about soccer. Like I said, I played it up until the 9th grade. It is still boring.

The MLS will never take off. All the great talent in soccer will go overseas to the people who care about it.
:lmao That is one of the funniest posts I have ever read

[Thunder Dan]

:lmao That is one of the funniest posts I have ever read

what is there to know about soccer? Like I have learned alot about baseball like pitching situations and when to send guys off and running, when to pinch hit and that sort of thing. But is there really anything in depth to know about soccer other than on penalty and corner kicks where to send guys? Not really

[mardigan]

what is there to know about soccer? Like I have learned alot about baseball like pitching situations and when to send guys off and running, when to pinch hit and that sort of thing. But is there really anything in depth to know about soccer other than on penalty and corner kicks where to send guys? Not really
I just find the notion that one would claim to know everything about a sport because one played it until the 9th grade funny.
Maybe your right as far as the game being played itself, rules and what not, but as far as the leagues, tournaments, and players are concerned, it would take a little more convincing

[Thunder Dan]

I just find the notion that one would claim to know everything about a sport because one played it until the 9th grade funny.
Maybe your right as far as the game being played itself, rules and what not, but as far as the leagues, tournaments, and players are concerned, it would take a little more convincing

I do understand all the European leagues and how they work. I understand all of that. I think that part is awesome. I wish American sports had the followings set up the way they are in Europe where you root for your town's team. I also like how your record determines your future and what league you play in. All of that is cool, I wish it were like that over here (like my favorite team, the Browns should have been kicked out of the NFL by now). So all of that is cool, but the sport itself it brutal to try to watch.

[mardigan]

I do understand all the European leagues and how they work. I understand all of that. I think that part is awesome. I wish American sports had the followings set up the way they are in Europe where you root for your town's team. I also like how your record determines your future and what league you play in. All of that is cool, I wish it were like that over here (like my favorite team, the Browns should have been kicked out of the NFL by now). So all of that is cool, but the sport itself it brutal to try to watch.
Well I guess that could be said for all sports, just depends on what you gravitate towards
I dont understand how people can watch Nascar, but thats just me.
And I really cant understand how American fans can claim soccer is boring to watch, but baseball is exciting
Regardless though, my personal feelings only mean that it doesnt do it for me, doesnt make the sport boring

[Phenomanul]

I do understand all the European leagues and how they work. I understand all of that. I think that part is awesome. I wish American sports had the followings set up the way they are in Europe where you root for your town's team. I also like how your record determines your future and what league you play in. All of that is cool, I wish it were like that over here (like my favorite team, the Browns should have been kicked out of the NFL by now). So all of that is cool, but the sport itself it brutal to try to watch.


That is a much different stance than blowing off the sport in one fell swoop, and suggesting that anyone could do it....

If becoming an elite soccer player were easy to do... I would have quit my day job to join Real Madrid, FC Barcelona or the likes....

[nsrammstein]

Does soccer need the United States?

[MaNuMaNiAc]

I do understand all the European leagues and how they work. I understand all of that. I think that part is awesome. I wish American sports had the followings set up the way they are in Europe where you root for your town's team. I also like how your record determines your future and what league you play in. All of that is cool, I wish it were like that over here (like my favorite team, the Browns should have been kicked out of the NFL by now). So all of that is cool, but the sport itself it brutal to try to watch.:lmao give me a break! you think because you played it 'till you were what? 14 you know everything there is to know about the sport? seriously, you know jackshit! if all there was to know about the sport you could learn by 14, coaching a team to win the UEFA cup would be a cake walk. Like in everything else, the challenge isn't in crappy highschool quality football, its in the REAL THING, where pros play pros and the game is taken to the ultimate level. So you played in high school, big deal, doesn't mean anything.

see, thats the problem here. American's think football is their high school "soccer", and thats bullshit! Thats like comparing the major leagues with peewee baseball. Just so its clear, nobody is talking about the football you played when you were 14, alright?

[resistanze]

Fuck Tim Duncan, I used to do more dunks than him on my Fisher Price basketball net...

[NorCal510]

fuck soccer and the haters in this thread

bitch sport... tennis is harder.

[ALVAREZ6]

after you score a goal I expect nothing less than a rip off of the shirt, then prancing around like a little prince and hugging and carrying on with your other shirtless teammatesWell we go by touchdowns and field goals in football.

[ALVAREZ6]

fuck soccer and the haters in this thread

bitch sport... tennis is harder.Norcal you have 30 pounds and about 4 inches on me and I'd still make you my bitch in anything.

[NorCal510]

Norcal you have 30 pounds and about 4 inches on me and I'd still make you my bitch in anything.
dude, how do you know this? you don't even know my athletic capabilities.

dude, i'd rock you in these sports: football (could go either way), basketball, baseball, volleyball, tennis

[NorCal510]

Norcal you have 30 pounds and about 4 inches on me and I'd still make you my bitch in anything.
btw, you are 5'9 150lbs? how can you be playing football...?

[ALVAREZ6]

btw, you are 5'9 150lbs? how can you be playing football...?Im probably 5'8" actually. My weight is also pretty deceiving, I can't gain weight, I've talked about it in another thread a while ago. Most people who guess my weight think I weigh 165. I've also been getting stronger this year, gaining muscle, but my weight stays the same.



How? I don't know, being pretty quick, tough, and strong typically makes a decent corner or safety. Believe it or not I'm actually better known as a receiver than a corner, even though most receivers gotta be like 6'3" at least?

What a dumb comment. How can Earl Boykins be in the NBA when he's 5'5" and 130 lbs???? What about Mugsy Bogues when he played?

[StylisticS]

Soccer will never be big in the us because americans have a love for instant gratification. They want to see thier team winning by means of score, they want to see flashy plays that actually "score".

I love basketball but youll never see me travel to other parts of the world to watch our team play in a world wide tourny, unless it was at the oly only cause Im there to watch soccer in the first place!

That's basically all there is to it. Americans like points. We are infactuated with points. We like to see those points with a little "style." IF soccer ever counts a goal as 3 points each and they did it with style, I GUARANTEE the popularity of the sport will skyrocket in this country. But I hope that never happens. It's a beautiful sport to watch if you actual sat down and learned the game. What I don't like about the sport is that they don't mind settling for ties. That also will not sit well with Americans.

[NorCal510]

Im probably 5'8" actually. My weight is also pretty deceiving, I can't gain weight, I've talked about it in another thread a while ago. Most people who guess my weight think I weigh 165. I've also been getting stronger this year, gaining muscle, but my weight stays the same.



How? I don't know, being pretty quick, tough, and strong typically makes a decent corner or safety. Believe it or not I'm actually better known as a receiver than a corner, even though most receivers gotta be like 6'3" at least?

What a dumb comment. How can Earl Boykins be in the NBA when he's 5'5" and 130 lbs???? What about Mugsy Bogues when he played?
umm, mugsy bogues or boykins doesn't have to take down shaq, where as in football, a smaller guy (you) is expected to take down the bigger dudes.

yours was a dumb comment, actually.

being small in basketball > being small in football

[ALVAREZ6]

Being small gives me a disadvantage...so what?

[NorCal510]

I'm just saying

[resistanze]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/9/91/Sanders_Barry_stride.jpg/200px-Sanders_Barry_stride.jpg

[MajorMike]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/9/91/Sanders_Barry_stride.jpg/200px-Sanders_Barry_stride.jpg

Greatest to ever take the field of play.

He's an earlier pic.

http://images.usatoday.com/sports/college/_photos/2005-01-31-inside-sanders.jpg

[DarkReign]

First, there is no doubt in my mind that "futbol" players are some of the best athletes in the world. No question. No objection. Myself, I wouldnt last on that field for 5 mins before puking then passing out. The field is HUGE, the game is fast and the competition is fierce.

But, here is my problem with soccer. MY PROBLEM, not America's problem, my problem....too many players on the field. If a midfielder makes a mistake in a pass (very common), there isnt a transition game to speak of unless the two teams playing are of different calibre (basically, any team in the world vs the USA). The midfielder has a turnover and the defenders just back him right up and neutralize the potential threat.

Now, obviously that isnt always the case, I could imagine. But the majority of the play on the field is between the goalie boxes. Im sure there are any number of reasons why that is the way it is, but I dont really care. Admittedly, I would be geeked if the US won a big tournament, but only for a day. Whereas the world, when their country wins, its a party for a week.

Thats my problem with it. I dont speak for my fellow Americans. I think there are too many players on the field and all the "action" is in the midfield when two good teams play one another.

I joke around about futbol in other threads just to get some of you people riled up (easy to do when Americans talk about futbol), but to be honest, I respect the "Beautiful Game" as much as I can. It just doesnt appeal to me for the reasons I stated. I still watch it if theres nothing else on because I hate regular telelvision (if it isnt sports, movies or educational, it isnt being watched). I admit I dont understand all the strategy behind the game, and I am quite sure I would if I watched more often and listened to more broadcasts, but I just dont want to.

Someone mentioned athletes in American sports being "somebody you yourself, could never be". I see some truth in that. Soccer players dont look different than any normal person. They arent especially strong and are not especially big. They arent larger than life. Granted, they are exceptionally fast, coordinated and in peak top physical condition. But it doesnt look like somebody I could never be. Example:

1. Football: I would be killed. Literally. Absolutely murdered. Theyre huge, theyre fast and its an intentionally violent sport. I had no delusions of grandeur even when I played in school that I was NFL material.

2. Baseball: This took me longer to appreciate. I hated baseball until about 2001-2002. The Tigers sucked but I started to appreciate and understand what it took to be in the Bigs. Ever stood in the batter's box and looked at a 90mph fastball? Ever seen a curveball? Try hitting it. Go ahead. Try. Now, do it everyday. Every single day. The season is long and arduous and it progressively gets harder and harder and harder. I have respect for the players and their abilities, no question, but of the major sports (NASCAR is not a sport) baseball players have the potential to be the least athletic (but that doesnt mean shit to me because everyone of them could outrun me).

3. Basketball: No explanation needed. Immaculate amalgamation of total physical strength and coordination. You can have the best shot in the world, but if you dont have good footwork, youre not going to make it (defense is still played). Does this really need an explanation? I never stood a chance.

4. Hockey: IMO, the greatest athletes play hockey. Lo and behold, every single European player in hockey played ALOT of soccer. And it shows in their absolutely amazing abilities to take passes from behind them, thru the legs, out of the air, so on. Speed, strength, creativity, vision and absolute toughness. I wouldnt last a shift on the ice.

[Phenomanul]

Good analysis DR... Your opinion is clearly presented instead of taking the high ground and insulting soccer outright, without any valid reasons.

To me xenophobic reasons are not valid - they never will be. And unfortunately that's what 90% percent of the American sports public spews out with regards to fútbol.

[Thunder Dan]

Good analysis DR... Your opinion is clearly presented instead of taking the high ground and insulting soccer outright, without any valid reasons.

To me xenophobic reasons are not valid - they never will be. And unfortunately that's what 90% percent of the American sports public spews out with regards to fútbol.

I wasn't saying soccer players are not good athletes (which it probably came across as). What I was saying is, I could be a soccer player if I wanted to be. If I worked hard enough I could be a soccer player. All I would have to do is be somewhat decent at it and I could play in the MLS. I couldn't do that in any other sport in the U.S. I could work my whole life to be a football player, and since I'm only 6' 175 pounds, I probably would only be a kicker. My size puts limitations on basketball. Baseball even has size issues with it. I could be a soccer player though. I played baseball in college, and it was still way above my level to make it to Rookie League, let alone minors. MLS just seems to take anyone out of college who is willing to work for 40k for a couple years till the next batch comes out. The good ones go to Europe, and the cycle of average players continues in MLS. Thats what I'm saying. I could play in the MLS for a couple years assuming I played soccer in college. It's not that hard when you consider how hard it is to get into the other 3 sports in our country. I think Americans are turned off by that.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

You people really think you could play professional soccer?

I assume the PGA, NASCAR, ATP and PBA are well within your reach as well.

Too funny.

[Thunder Dan]

You people really think you could play professional soccer?

I assume the PGA, NASCAR, ATP and PBA are well within your reach as well.

Too funny.

The PBA is the only pro sport where you could actually beat any one of those guys on any given day. I've bowled a game in the 250s before, and average in the 215 area, so yeah I could probably give them a game.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

Of all those, the PBA is indeed the easiest one in which you could beat a professional on any given day. Of course, playing anything for fun or in a beer league is completely different than competing professionally.

[The_Worlds_finest]

http://www.queerty.com/queer/usasoccer_brianmcbride4.jpg

nuff said. Soccer is a femme sport. Guys don't want any part in it.

thats brian mcbride after our lose against ghana in 2006 world cup please dont bring that up anymore

[Vinnie_Johnson]

We will never be good at soccer because. WE DON'T CARE ABOUT SOCCER!

[DarkReign]

Dont say "we". You dont speak for anyone but yourself. Nor do I.

[MajorMike]

Let’s be honest here. All this talk about the world’s greatest athletes and sport and blah blah blah.


Allen Iverson, Chad Johnson, Tatum Bell, Charles Woodson, Champ Bailey, Michael Johnson, TJ Ford, Torry Holt, D'Angelo Hall, Reggie Bush, Carl Crawford, Donte Stallworth, Juan Pierre, Michael Phelps (only white guy I could think of), Justin Gatlin, Jeremy Wariner, Reggie Wayne.

Have all these kids grow up soccer players and put them on the same field together and there isn’t a team in the world that could touch them. ‘The World’s’ teams are better because all their kids grow up and wanna be soccer players, so all their athletes play soccer. In America, you have many choices other than soccer or cricket. It just so happens our best athletes grow up and wanna play something else, as most schools don’t even have soccer programs in America. And as a whole, America has the best athletes.

The past 3 Olympics, the US has had the most medals, was 2nd in 1992 and has never been worse than 3rd (except Moscow) and have by far the most medals in history by any country. Even in the winter Olympics, which the US is never really very solid in, we are #2 all time in medals behind Norway, having finished 2nd the past 2 winter games.

[samikeyp]

Allen Iverson, Chad Johnson, Tatum Bell, Charles Woodson, Champ Bailey, Michael Johnson, TJ Ford, Torry Holt, D'Angelo Hall, Reggie Bush, Carl Crawford, Donte Stallworth, Juan Pierre, Michael Phelps (only white guy I could think of), Justin Gatlin, Jeremy Wariner, Reggie Wayne.

Wariner is white too.

http://www.abc.net.au/reslib/200408/r27951_69552.jpg

[cornbread]

Allen Iverson, Chad Johnson, Tatum Bell, Charles Woodson, Champ Bailey, Michael Johnson, TJ Ford, Torry Holt, D'Angelo Hall, Reggie Bush, Carl Crawford, Donte Stallworth, Juan Pierre, Michael Phelps (only white guy I could think of), Justin Gatlin, Jeremy Wariner, Reggie Wayne.

Have all these kids grow up soccer players and put them on the same field together and there isn’t a team in the world that could touch them. ‘The World’s’ teams are better because all their kids grow up and wanna be soccer players, so all their athletes play soccer.
Those are some of the fastest american atheletes in each of their sports. Although their speed is an advantage in their sports, in professional soccer it would be a minimum physical requirement to play the game. This isn't the NBA where a guy like Yao Ming can be one of the best players while barely being capable of beating my grandmother in a foot race. Everybody in professional soccer is fast so the advantage isn't there.

What would even be more interesting would be some of America's best atheletes like Shaq, Warren Sapp, Dale Earndhart Jr, and Roger Clemens on the same soccer team. They probably couldn't make it up and down the field more than once. They could probably be defeated by a skilled group of 10 year olds.

[Extra Stout]

And as a whole, America has the best athletes.

The past 3 Olympics, the US has had the most medals, was 2nd in 1992 and has never been worse than 3rd (except Moscow) and have by far the most medals in history by any country. Even in the winter Olympics, which the US is never really very solid in, we are #2 all time in medals behind Norway, having finished 2nd the past 2 winter games.
Question: how does the U.S. measure up to other countries when normalized against GDP? You would expect, all other things being equal, that the wealthiest and most populous nations would produce the most elite athletes, because there are more people to choose from, and they have greater resources to develop their abilities.

[DarkReign]

What would even be more interesting would be some of America's best atheletes like Shaq, Warren Sapp, Dale Earndhart Jr, and Roger Clemens on the same soccer team. They probably couldn't make it up and down the field more than once. They could probably be defeated by a skilled group of 10 year olds.

:lmao So true.

EDITED: Side note, nor could I.

[Phenomanul]

Question: how does the U.S. measure up to other countries when normalized against GDP? You would expect, all other things being equal, that the wealthiest and most populous nations would produce the most elite athletes, because there are more people to choose from, and they have greater resources to develop their abilities.


I was about to respond by saying something to this effect, but you beat me to it....

Not to mention that U.S. athletes are also the most likely to abuse steriods... given the fact that they are generally in a better position to afford them.

[Extra Stout]

I was about to respond by saying something to this effect, but you beat me to it....

Not to mention that U.S. athletes are also the most likely to abuse steriods... given the fact that they are generally in a better position to afford them.
Don't you remember those East German female swimmers that started growing beards?

[Phenomanul]

Let’s be honest here. All this talk about the world’s greatest athletes and sport and blah blah blah.


Allen Iverson, Chad Johnson, Tatum Bell, Charles Woodson, Champ Bailey, Michael Johnson, TJ Ford, Torry Holt, D'Angelo Hall, Reggie Bush, Carl Crawford, Donte Stallworth, Juan Pierre, Michael Phelps (only white guy I could think of), Justin Gatlin, Jeremy Wariner, Reggie Wayne.

Have all these kids grow up soccer players and put them on the same field together and there isn’t a team in the world that could touch them. ‘The World’s’ teams are better because all their kids grow up and wanna be soccer players, so all their athletes play soccer. In America, you have many choices other than soccer or cricket. It just so happens our best athletes grow up and wanna play something else, as most schools don’t even have soccer programs in America. And as a whole, America has the best athletes.

The past 3 Olympics, the US has had the most medals, was 2nd in 1992 and has never been worse than 3rd (except Moscow) and have by far the most medals in history by any country. Even in the winter Olympics, which the US is never really very solid in, we are #2 all time in medals behind Norway, having finished 2nd the past 2 winter games.

Also don't discount the Brazillians or the athletes being produced by African nations...

Didn't Ghana completely out-run, out-hussle and out-last the Americans in the last World Cup? Some of these athletes (like Samuel Eto) aren't complete push overs.... despite the fact that they grew up without the aid of weight rooms, gatorade, or multi-vitamin supplements....

[Phenomanul]

Don't you remember those East German female swimmers that started growing beards?

Another 1st world nation on the same boat with the U.S. (economically speaking of course)

[Thunder Dan]

Those are some of the fastest american atheletes in each of their sports. Although their speed is an advantage in their sports, in professional soccer it would be a minimum physical requirement to play the game. This isn't the NBA where a guy like Yao Ming can be one of the best players while barely being capable of beating my grandmother in a foot race. Everybody in professional soccer is fast so the advantage isn't there.

What would even be more interesting would be some of America's best atheletes like Shaq, Warren Sapp, Dale Earndhart Jr, and Roger Clemens on the same soccer team. They probably couldn't make it up and down the field more than once. They could probably be defeated by a skilled group of 10 year olds.

Clemens is in better shape than about 75% of baseball.

[ALVAREZ6]

Clemens is in better shape than about 75% of baseball.pathetic

[resistanze]

Clemens is in better shape than about 75% of baseball.
:lol So you are trying to shit on baseball?

[Extra Stout]

Another 1st world nation on the same boat with the U.S. (economically speaking of course)
Exactly what was first world about communist East Germany?

[dav4463]

At low levels (kids), soccer is a sport where even the little fat, uncoordinated, clumsy kids can still run around and kick at a ball and feel like they are participating. The parents of the non-athletic kids can actually get involved in sports this way too. The better athletes then graduate to basketball, football, or baseball when they get older.

[nsrammstein]

At low levels (kids), soccer is a sport where even the little fat, uncoordinated, clumsy kids can still run around and kick at a ball and feel like they are participating. The parents of the non-athletic kids can actually get involved in sports this way too. The better athletes then graduate to basketball, football, or baseball when they get older.

What about that little nerdy white kid with down syndrome that dropped 30pts in one quarter? What does that say about basketball? and if you think that every football player is in better shape than most soccer players then you just have your head buried in your ass.

[cornbread]

At low levels (kids), soccer is a sport where even the little fat, uncoordinated, clumsy kids can still run around and kick at a ball and feel like they are participating. The parents of the non-athletic kids can actually get involved in sports this way too. The better athletes then graduate to basketball, football, or baseball when they get older.
Really? From what I've seen there's always been places for the fat kids on football and baseball teams and a place for the tall uncoordinated kids on basketball teams.

[Phenomanul]

Exactly what was first world about communist East Germany?


Guessed I skipped over the "East" the first time around...

[Thunder Dan]

At low levels (kids), soccer is a sport where even the little fat, uncoordinated, clumsy kids can still run around and kick at a ball and feel like they are participating. The parents of the non-athletic kids can actually get involved in sports this way too. The better athletes then graduate to basketball, football, or baseball when they get older.

that is basically the essay I posted in a nutshell

[Thunder Dan]

Really? From what I've seen there's always been places for the fat kids on football and baseball teams and a place for the tall uncoordinated kids on basketball teams.

Those fat kids can't fuck up in soccer. Nothingness is expected. In baseball those kids run the risk of striking out 4x a game, or getting killed in football. In soccer they can just run around and fit in. They could go a whole season without even placing a foot on a ball, and nobody would even notice.

[Soul_Patch]

Here is my take.


American Football is fucking boring as hell. It is about 30 min of actual game play with about 2.5hrs of time outs, play calling, injuries, etc...The sport was made for TV advertising...the reason 90% of americans love it so much, is because they have been force fed this crap since they were born. TV loves football because it lets them parade 2hrs of commercials to a brain dead audience thinking they are watching sports.

Baseball...I kind of like it, i played it for 7 years....but to watch an MLB game on TV is just fucking brutal. What a boring sport to watch, i mean a bunch of guys stand around while 2 people kinda do something...o a hit! oh shit nevermind its an out...oh well...lets go to a commercial! 9 innings the score is 0-0...well lets keep it going!!! 16 innings later score 1 - 0....a winner! how exciting he hit a homerun, while the rest of the team sat around and played DS in the dugout!

Soccer is a constant movement game, constant adjustments and strategy, its a defensive contest to see who can make teh adjustments to break the defense...i love the structure of the leagues as the previous poster mentioned, i love the continual play of the games (without having commercials crammed down my throat for 3hrs) I love the strategy and the constant push and pull of the two teams till one breaks open...I dont need lots of points to entertain me, i enjoy athletes competing, and if you think these guys are not extremely talented athletes, you really need to rethink wtf you call an athlete...This is a sport that is ABOUT the sport, and not about the thousands of endorsements and commercials....its a game, and its over...nothing in between. IF you think american football is about anything other than TV money, your are kidding yourself...it is ALL about selling you shit, the sports are just the byproduct to keep you watching the commercials. Case in point is the damn super bowl...which should be renamed the "commercial bowl"


Take fucking poker and nascar off the damn TV...the fact that american's have decided these things are sports television worthy fucking baffel me...Some fat fuck sits around and gets lucky, wins thousands of dollars!!! oohhhh thats sports history!!!

Some redneck soops up his car and drives around in circles for 10,000 miles...wow!!! look at that!!!

ughh..

[j-6]

How can you bitch about a 0-0 nine inning baseball game and then say you don't need points to entertain you a paragraph later?

On soccer:

(1) Nobody except the ref knows what time it really is.

(2) Nobody except the ref knows when the game is ending.

(3) 90 minutes (plus, depending on extra time) divided over two halves is way too long for my attention span. Why can't they play 15 minute quarters like the indoor teams used to? And yes, I like the time outs in football and basketball - gives me a chance to piss / get another beer / socialize while not missing any action.

(4) I'm somewhat baffled that a country with the athletic resources of the United States, population 300 million, loses to Ghana or to the left hand remnant of Czechoslovakia by 3 goals. Call it elitist or whatever. We should be able to put 11 Nike-clad, IMG trained American kids out and beat Ghana in everything from soccer to speed quarters.

I'm with you on Nascar and poker. It's fun to drive fast and play cards for money, but that doesn't mean I want to watch it on television.

[Soul_Patch]

How can you bitch about a 0-0 nine inning baseball game and then say you don't need points to entertain you a paragraph later?

Well i think watching a game that may end in a draw is a little more exciting to watch when you have action the whole time (soccer). in a 0-0 baseball game, you really have maybe 2 to 4 players out of 10 actually doing anything at all remotely athletic at any given time.

[Soul_Patch]

I'm somewhat baffled that a country with the athletic resources of the United States, population 300 million, loses to Ghana or to the left hand remnant of Czechoslovakia by 3 goals. Call it elitist or whatever. We should be able to put 11 Nike-clad, IMG trained American kids out and beat Ghana in everything from soccer to speed quarters.

Because it isnt about winning really in american sports. it is about selling the shit out of the merchandise. IT is about attitude, and chest thumping, and how many bentleys you drive and how big of rims can you fit on them. If you are model quality young guy, with a bentley and 45" rims with plutonium teeth, you are a superstar, and of course assumed you are good at what you do.

you go out there and play against the fuckin grinders of the world, the ghana's, and the eastern euro's who basically lived off of soccer their whole lives, who slept using a damn soccer ball as a pillow...a soccer ball that their family saved up 3 months salary to buy...these guys got nothing to hide, so they rely solely on their skills to get it done. They have the drive and hunger that most amercan athletes have kind of lost...if an american athlete is not going to make 5 brazillion dollars for bending his leg....he'd rather not be bothered...bring on the rims bitches!

thats why i think america is often exposed on the world stage in most sports.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

Because it isnt about winning really in american sports. it is about selling the shit out of the merchandise. IT is about attitude, and chest thumping, and how many bentleys you drive and how big of rims can you fit on them. If you are model quality young guy, with a bentley and 45" rims with plutonium teeth, you are a superstar, and of course assumed you are good at what you do.

you go out there and play against the fuckin grinders of the world, the ghana's, and the eastern euro's who basically lived off of soccer their whole lives, who slept using a damn soccer ball as a pillow...a soccer ball that their family saved up 3 months salary to buy...these guys got nothing to hide, so they rely solely on their skills to get it done. They have the drive and hunger that most amercan athletes have kind of lost...if an american athlete is not going to make 5 brazillion dollars for bending his leg....he'd rather not be bothered...bring on the rims bitches!

thats why i think america is often exposed on the world stage in most sports.hmm... most sports? seriously, you don't watch a lot of sports do ya? About the only two sports I can think of where the US sucks are rugby and football, other than that the US is first or top ten in every other sport. Think about it. Of course the US has the best athletes in the world, but doesn't mean shit when it comes to football. What Thunder Dan said is bullshit, and with every comment he adds, it becomes abundantly clear that he knows shit about football.

[Soul_Patch]

World Sports: Soccer, Rugby, Basketball, baseball, hocky...

How many have the us dominated, i cant really even think of one...but maybe im wrong?

PS: i guess i should validate my statement and say team sports...

[ALVAREZ6]

World Sports: Soccer, Rugby, Basketball, baseball, hocky...

How many have the us dominated, i cant really even think of one...but maybe im wrong?

PS: i guess i should validate my statement and say team sports...The US dominates basketball...all bullshit aside. Sure, they haven't been that successful these past years, but there's no doubt that USA is and always will be the basketball rulers. Baseball? With the amount of the population in the US and how popular it is, they probably should dominate it, but they're still up there. I don't really know baseball so I won't go into that.

Rugby...you're right they suck. No idea about Hockey...does Canada own that?


And soccer....well, certainly not.


But they definitely own basketball.

[Soul_Patch]

so....there is arguably ONE sport they dominate, but really havent in the past 10 years.

Hockey is definately not owned by americans

Baseball gets its talent from asia, cuba and other latin american communities

rugby....i really dont even know since i dont think its ever been publicised at all...for that matter i didnt even really know america had a national rugby team.


Basketball...well...like i said, its been years since we have won anything on the world stage...aren't we on the ropes for even qualifying for the next olympics?

you know when the US stopped being dominating in basketball? When shoe endorsements, blingbling and corporate ownership of players became more important than the sport.

[Thunder Dan]

hmm... most sports? seriously, you don't watch a lot of sports do ya? About the only two sports I can think of where the US sucks are rugby and football, other than that the US is first or top ten in every other sport. Think about it. Of course the US has the best athletes in the world, but doesn't mean shit when it comes to football. What Thunder Dan said is bullshit, and with every comment he adds, it becomes abundantly clear that he knows shit about football.

America is not the best in baseball (see 2006 WBC) America does not dominate golf (see Ryder Cups over the last century) I thank god we suck at soccer.- just another shit comment from Thunder Dan

[MaNuMaNiAc]

America is not the best in baseball (see 2006 WBC) America does not dominate golf (see Ryder Cups over the last century) I thank god we suck at soccer.- just another shit comment from Thunder Dannotice I said first or top ten... so yeah, another shit comment from you

[polandprzem]

How can you bitch about a 0-0 nine inning baseball game and then say you don't need points to entertain you a paragraph later?

On soccer:

(1) Nobody except the ref knows what time it really is.

(2) Nobody except the ref knows when the game is ending.

(3) 90 minutes (plus, depending on extra time) divided over two halves is way too long for my attention span. Why can't they play 15 minute quarters like the indoor teams used to? And yes, I like the time outs in football and basketball - gives me a chance to piss / get another beer / socialize while not missing any action.

(4) I'm somewhat baffled that a country with the athletic resources of the United States, population 300 million, loses to Ghana or to the left hand remnant of Czechoslovakia by 3 goals. Call it elitist or whatever. We should be able to put 11 Nike-clad, IMG trained American kids out and beat Ghana in everything from soccer to speed quarters.

I'm with you on Nascar and poker. It's fun to drive fast and play cards for money, but that doesn't mean I want to watch it on television.

Weak arguments

[ALVAREZ6]

Weak argumentsI agree