Spanoulis waived ?

[Bruno]

A Greek article is reporting that Spurs have waived Spanoulis today (if I have understood well babelfish).

http://www.supersport.gr/default.asp?aid=128813

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Now we have 3 open roster spots. Sign Marcus Williams, someone else (Sanikidze?) along with Ime Udoka.

[thispego]

sweet. now we should start seeing some action

[ducks]

spurs are set to do something

[CosmicCowboy]

spurs are set to do something

http://www.coinxchange.com/int_img/reimb.jpg

[Slomo]

:lmao

[Twisted_Dawg]

How is a player waived with a guaranteed contract?

[justanotherspursfan]

Now we have 3 open roster spots. Sign Marcus Williams, someone else (Sanikidze?) along with Ime Udoka.
Don't get your hopes up. We may carry an open roster spot or two this year for cap reasons.

My modest wishlist would be Williams, Mahinmi, and Udoka, but the FO may end up settling for just Williams (nonguaranteed at the rookie minimum) unless we can move Barry and/or Beno and get some cap relief in the bargain.

[saporvida]

so the fo really did trade scola & butler for absolutely nothing at all... that sucks!

[spurster]

He probably wasn't "waived", in the technical meaning of that term. It probably was a mutual agreement to void the contract.

[YODA]

He probably wasn't "waived", in the technical meaning of that term. It probably was a mutual agreement to void the contract.

This makes more sense. IF the Spurs actually waved him, Then we would have to pay his contract. Why would they Spurs do that if they know he doesnt want to be here and that in itself means the contract is voided.
this makes alot more sense to me.


Yoda

[Reckless28]

This makes more sense. IF the Spurs actually waved him, Then we would have to pay his contract. Why would they Spurs do that if they know he doesnt want to be here and that in itself means the contract is voided.
this makes alot more sense to me.


Yoda


with a guaranteed contract the spurs have to buy it out in order to release the player. it's guaranteed.

[Kindergarten Cop]

with a guaranteed contract the spurs have to buy it out in order to release the player. it's guaranteed.

Unless of course, VSpan decides to mutually void the contract - which is what I believe the Spurs' FO is expecting.

[Leetonidas]

The thing is, Spanoulis wants to go back to Greece for more money, however, as long as he is under contract with the Spurs, he cannot play with them. So, I think he will be agreeing to void his contract.

[Kindergarten Cop]

The thing is, Spanoulis wants to go back to Greece for more money, however, as long as he is under contract with the Spurs, he cannot play with them. So, I think he will be agreeing to void his contract.

It is this reasoning that makes me believe that the Spurs have ALL of the leverage at this point. We can wait it out until the Luxury tax is assessed in '08, while he will want to play with his Greek team late this summer or early fall. I bet his agent has been trying to get the Spurs to agree on a buyout, while the FO is waiting out for an outright release agreement with no money exchanged.

[boutons_]

The guy has said he won't play in the NBA.
Refusing to play voids the his side of the contract, aka "pay for play".
No play, no pay, contract voided.

[Kindergarten Cop]

The guy has said he won't play in the NBA.
Refusing to play voids the his side of the contract, aka "pay for play".
No play, no pay, contract voided.

You make it sound so easy. :)

Legally though, it's a little a bit more complicated than that. VSpan cannot sign a new contract with his team in Greece (which is what it appears that he wants to do) until both sides agree to void the deal or agree to a buyout. He cannot simply say "I don't want to play for the Spurs" and have his contract go up into a puff of smoke. Both sides have to agree to the terms of the buyout/void before he can do anything else regarding his basketball career.

[Fast Dunk]

They will probably go with a 12 man roster or get all of the remaining 3 spots filled with suck ass summer league players they have right now, (saving money for tight ass Holt is the main objetctive here)

[FromWayDowntown]

You make it sound so easy. :)

Legally though, it's a little a bit more complicated than that. VSpan cannot sign a new contract with his team in Greece (which is what it appears that he wants to do) until both sides agree to void the deal or agree to a buyout. He cannot simply say "I don't want to play for the Spurs" and have his contract go up into a puff of smoke. Both sides have to agree to the terms of the buyout/void before he can do anything else regarding his basketball career.


That's not entirely true -- the Spurs could, in fact, waive Spannoulis and afford him the same opportunity. The difference in each scenario is the impact of the mechanism on the Spurs' cap.

If Spannoulis agrees to void the contract, the Spurs have no obligations to him and take no cap hit in terminating that relationship.

If Spannoulis is bought out, the Spurs' cap is hit in each remaining year of Spannoulis's deal with a charge equal to a percentage of the total payout representing the percentage of remaining sums due Spannoulis under the voided contract. If Spannoulis had 2 years at $2 million and was going to make 45% of that in 2007-08 and 55% in 2008-09, then if the Spurs bought him out for $1, the cap would be hit for $450,000 in 2007-08 and $550,000 in 2008-09.

If Spannoulis is waived, the Spurs take the full hit of his existing contract for each of the seasons remaining on that deal.

[CubanMustGo]

They will probably go with a 12 man roster or get all of the remaining 3 spots filled with suck ass summer league players they have right now, (saving money for tight ass Holt is the main objetctive here)

What exactly is an objetective, anyway?

Tight ass Holt = 4 championships more than the Cadavers, btw.

[Kindergarten Cop]

That's not entirely true -- the Spurs could, in fact, waive Spannoulis and afford him the same opportunity. The difference in each scenario is the impact of the mechanism on the Spurs' cap.

If Spannoulis agrees to void the contract, the Spurs have no obligations to him and take no cap hit in terminating that relationship.

If Spannoulis is bought out, the Spurs' cap is hit in each remaining year of Spannoulis's deal with a charge equal to a percentage of the total payout representing the percentage of remaining sums due Spannoulis under the voided contract. If Spannoulis had 2 years at $2 million and was going to make 45% of that in 2007-08 and 55% in 2008-09, then if the Spurs bought him out for $1, the cap would be hit for $450,000 in 2007-08 and $550,000 in 2008-09.

If Spannoulis is waived, the Spurs take the full hit of his existing contract for each of the seasons remaining on that deal.

I was aware that the Spurs could void the deal and release him without consulting VSpan at all, but I didn't list it as an option because it is not a reasonable (or realistic, IMHO) option - especially considering the monetary transactions that have been made thus far this off-season. :greedy

That is why I believe that ultimately a void will be agreed upon, but a buyout is not entirely out of the realm of possibility. :)

[Bruno]

He probably wasn't "waived", in the technical meaning of that term. It probably was a mutual agreement to void the contract.

Yes, I haven't written "waived" with the assumption that Spurs will pay his full salary.
I think Spurs will buy out/release him without giving him one dollar.

[Fast Dunk]

Yes, I haven't written "waived" with the assumption that Spurs will pay his full salary.
I think Spurs will buy out/release him without giving him one dollar.

That's their specialty.

[CubanMustGo]

That's their specialty.

That, and this:

http://www.sptimes.com/2003/04/10/photos/nhl-obrientrophy.jpghttp://www.sptimes.com/2003/04/10/photos/nhl-obrientrophy.jpghttp://www.sptimes.com/2003/04/10/photos/nhl-obrientrophy.jpghttp://www.sptimes.com/2003/04/10/photos/nhl-obrientrophy.jpg

[ThomasGranger]

That's their specialty.

That, and sweeping the Cavs in the finals.

[Big P]

That's their specialty.

No our specialty is SPAM...then bring home a championship, thats our specialty...the Cavs specialty is getting torched in the EC Finals or lit up in the NBA Finals.

[oligarchy]

They can't just void his contract. It's guaranteed. They have to waive him. He has to clear waivers. I haven't seen a "no money" option, but they could mutually agree to reduce his compensation protection to zero. Although, I don't think it's likely. He has one year guaranteed left, if I recall correctly, at 1,944,000. If they agree to say a 20% compensation, 20% of that 1,944,00 goes against cap, if someone picked him up on waivers.

[jéjé]

don't forget mahimni !

He should be on the spurs uniform the next season ;)

[softspot]

What happened to Derek Fisher and the Jazz? Didn't they dissolve Derek's contract by mutual agreement?

[timvp]

What happened to Derek Fisher and the Jazz? Didn't they dissolve Derek's contract by mutual agreement?Yep. And that's what will most likely happen here.

[oligarchy]

The Jazz waived Derek Fisher. He cleared waivers and then LA signed him.

San Antonio could do the same, since like Derek, most other teams know the surrounding circumstances and wouldn't pick up Spannoulis. Thus, it wouldn't cost us anything.

[oligarchy]

If Spannoulis is waived, the Spurs take the full hit of his existing contract for each of the seasons remaining on that deal.

Only if someone else picked him up while on waivers. And, it doesn't necessarily mean "full hit." They could agree to a 20% guaranteed compensation if someone happened to pick him up. He has one year guaranteed and we would 20% of what was guaranteed for that year only (at least it counts against cap that year only.)

[lotr1trekkie]

If we get Oduka we have 13 contracts. Oduka is not being signed to be on the IL. Beno or Brent of both have to go. Marcus Williams didn't show enough to get a regular contract. Mahimni makes sense as a big backup and Toros player. Unless we make a deal I think we will wait until training camp to see who becomes available.

[Kindergarten Cop]

They can't just void his contract. It's guaranteed. They have to waive him. He has to clear waivers. I haven't seen a "no money" option, but they could mutually agree to reduce his compensation protection to zero. Although, I don't think it's likely. He has one year guaranteed left, if I recall correctly, at 1,944,000. If they agree to say a 20% compensation, 20% of that 1,944,00 goes against cap, if someone picked him up on waivers.



The Jazz waived Derek Fisher. He cleared waivers and then LA signed him.

San Antonio could do the same, since like Derek, most other teams know the surrounding circumstances and wouldn't pick up Spannoulis. Thus, it wouldn't cost us anything.

:wtf

[oligarchy]

:wtf

Yeah. I wasn't thinking when I wrote that; the whole statement is retarded. What I mean is that we would only pay if someone picked him up off waivers, or we agreed to a percentage of his salary once he cleared waivers. Though, like Fisher, we could eliminate the compensation protection. :dizzy

[mountainballer]

If we get Oduka we have 13 contracts. Oduka is not being signed to be on the IL. Beno or Brent of both have to go. Marcus Williams didn't show enough to get a regular contract. Mahimni makes sense as a big backup and Toros player. Unless we make a deal I think we will wait until training camp to see who becomes available.

if you claim that Williams didn't show enough to get a contract, how can you claim in the same post that Ian should be signed????

[greywheel]

The Jazz waived Derek Fisher. He cleared waivers and then LA signed him.

Every article I have read uses the word released, not waived. Where are you getting your information that Fisher was waived and cleared waivers?

Jazz to Release Fisher from Contract (http://www.nba.com/jazz/news/Jazz_fisher_070702.html)
SALT LAKE CITY (July 2, 2007) – Utah Jazz senior vice president of basketball operations, Kevin O’Connor, announced today that guard Derek Fisher has requested that the team release him from his player contract due to his daughter Tatum’s ongoing medical condition.

“Derek will pursue an opportunity as a free agent with a team in a city that has highly specialized medical facilities in order to get the best possible care for his daughter. Derek has contributed greatly to the Utah Jazz organization and we are reluctant to see him go, but understand the importance of putting his family first,” said team owner Larry H. Miller.

Under the rules of the collective bargaining agreement, a player contract cannot be amended during the moratorium period that ends on July 11. The Jazz will enter into an agreement to release him from his contract as soon as the CBA allows.

Fisher (6-1, 211, Arkansas-Little Rock) has played in 782 regular season games over 11 seasons with the L.A. Lakers, Golden State and Utah and owns career averages of 8.7 points, 2.2 rebounds and 3.3 assists per game. He appeared in all 82 games in his lone season in Utah in 2006-07, averaging 10.1 points, 1.8 rebounds and 3.3 assists in 27.9 minutes per game. The Jazz acquired Fisher from Golden State in exchange for Devin Brown, Keith McLeod and Andre Owens on July 12, 2006.

[smrattler]

That article from the Greek paper says he already signed a contract with their team over there, right? If so, I would hope that means he has no leverage with us and just needs to void it now. But I'm surprised Holt didn't ask them to buy him out, wouldn't that be awesome! :)

[oligarchy]

Every article I have read uses the word released, not waived. Where are you getting your information that Fisher was waived and cleared waivers?


Derek Fisher is scheduled to clear waivers Thursday at 3 p.m., meaning the Lakers can sign him at 3:01 p.m. if no other team claims him.

Fisher agreed in principle last week to return to the Lakers on a three-year contract worth about $14 million.

Fisher could be claimed by another team willing to award him the three years and almost $21 million left on his contract when Utah agreed to release him earlier this month, although that is considered a slim possibility.


http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-spw-fisher19jul19,1,1217568.story?coll=la-headlines-sports


Fisher, who turns 33 on Aug. 9, cleared waivers Thursday, and the Lakers scheduled a news conference for Friday to announce his signing. The contract reportedly is a 3-year deal worth about $14 million.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2942705&campaign=rss&source=NBAHeadlines

[oligarchy]

59. What is a contract buy-out?

Sometimes players and teams decide to divorce each other. They do this by mutually agreeing that:
The team will waive the player;

If the player clears waivers, the compensation protection for lack of skill (see question number 90) will be reduced or eliminated;


Optionally the payment schedule for the remaining salary may be shortened or lengthened.

[greywheel]

Thanks, oligarchy. I popped over to the Lakers site on NBA.com but their article didn't mention anything about the waiver. Strangely it also didn't mention anything about his daughter. But I guess it was just Laker PR trying to spend that the move was the front office trying to make the Lakers better.

[oligarchy]

Originally, it was reported that Fisher was going to temporarily not play basketball to care for his kid. I don't understand it really. It seems the Jazz understood why he wanted to leave, but then he signs with the Lakers.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Originally, it was reported that Fisher was going to temporarily not play basketball to care for his kid. I don't understand it really. It seems the Jazz understood why he wanted to leave, but then he signs with the Lakers.

He signed with LA because they have one of the best treatment centers (like top 2) in the country in LA for his daughter's illness.

[oligarchy]

He signed with LA because they have one of the best treatment centers (like top 2) in the country in LA for his daughter's illness.

Ahh.. so it was to find a team who had a good facility near it. It wasn't that he wasn't going to play.

[Ellinaras]

According to the article Spanoulis has already agreed and signed his contract with Panathinaikos, but they'll wait for a week before submitting the new deal so he doesn't get into legal problems.

[Kindergarten Cop]

Yeah. I wasn't thinking when I wrote that; the whole statement is retarded. What I mean is that we would only pay if someone picked him up off waivers, or we agreed to a percentage of his salary once he cleared waivers. Though, like Fisher, we could eliminate the compensation protection. :dizzy

No problem. ;)

While on the topic though, someone stated that he possibly signed a contract already with his team in Greece. This would not be possible if he has not already had his contract voided (or he was released/waived) with the Spurs and perhaps we are just waiting (for what, I don't know) to announce it officially.

[oligarchy]

Got a bit OT there and perpetuated it myself.

I'm not sure if "he signed" already, but maybe the agreement is just in place? I figure it might be reported already that he had been waived, "or let go" by the Spurs. There's a 7-day window after we waive him until he can actually sign a contract. I'll wait for a US press release.

[urunobili]

don't forget mahimni !

He should be on the spurs uniform the next season ;)

Mahimni is a LIE!!!


:ihit

[Streakyshooter08]

Any news? Haven't heard anything the last couple of days.

[urunobili]

it seems the FO mood is contagious... please someone tell me that we didn;t pay a penny of his guaranteed money!!!!

[Mitch Cumsteen]

The Spurs should make him buyout his contract just like the European players do to come over to the NBA. Make him pony up a million bucks or so.

[Darkwaters]

The Spurs should make him buyout his contract just like the European players do to come over to the NBA. Make him pony up a million bucks or so.

Definitely. If this guy has the audacity to divorce the Rockets in the way that he did then perhaps HE should bear some of the financial strain.

[waly.mg]

What exactly is an objetective, anyway?

Tight ass Holt = 4 championships more than the Cadavers, btw.

THAT´s not CORRECT

The Spurs can Trade Tim Duncan for Yao Ming and the 4 ring equal would be in San Antonio, but it would not stop being a bad trade

[Bruno]

Any news? Haven't heard anything the last couple of days.

I haven't seen nothing new in Greek articles.

His agent has promised to give him back his freedom for his birthday. His birthday is tomorrow, I doubt he will be able to offer him this gift.

In Greece, everything seems to be ready for his comeback : he has a €2M per year contract from Panathinaikos on the table and Panathinaikos wait to sign Spanoulis before trading/loaning some players to make room for him.

[Streakyshooter08]

I haven't seen nothing new in Greek articles.

His agent has promised to give him back his freedom for his birthday. His birthday is tomorrow, I doubt he will be able to offer him this gift.

In Greece, everything seems to be ready for his comeback : he has a €2M per year contract from Panathinaikos on the table and Panathinaikos wait to sign Spanoulis before trading/loaning some players to make room for him.

Thanks a lot. :tu

[Marcus Bryant]

Spanilouisusiiiss will be bought out before Udoka is signed. So this may take some time.

[exstatic]

Spanilouisusiiiss will be bought out before Udoka is signed. So this may take some time.
I don't think they'll give him a damn dime. He made it perfectly clear that playing in Greece was his priority even if it meant walking away with nothing from the Rox. The Spurs will wait out his bluff. This pussy doesn't want any more of the NBA experience. SA will probably send him a form letter with training camp dates before too long. :lol:rollin

[picnroll]

Has Spandex agreed to forgo his NBA salary?

[exstatic]

Has Spandex agreed to forgo his NBA salary?
Not yet, but I think it's only a matter of time. His Greek team is getting antsy, and the only way the Spurs let him go this early to sign is sans cash. They'll just wait him out and pocket the money Houston sent in the deal. I'd love to play poker with him. He showed his whole fucking hand when Houston still owned his contract.

[Marcus Bryant]

Well, I should have said that his contract will be ripped up before Udoka is signed. At this point the Spurs are clearly waiting Spanniliououious out. Unfortunately it is holding up other personnel moves.

[picnroll]

Spurs should put a gun to his head. Tell him he has to a certain date to renounce and if he doesn't give it up they won't release him until later in the year and when they do they won't pay anything and sue to regain what they have paid plus damages (luxury tax if they incur any) for breach of contract.

[exstatic]

Spurs should put a gun to his head. Tell him he has to a certain date to renounce and if he doesn't give it up they won't release him until later in the year and when they do they won't pay anything and sue to regain what they have paid plus damages (luxury tax if they incur any) for breach of contract.
I think Spandex is under more time pressure than the Spurs are. His Greek team is waiting to sign him before they make some other moves. Training camp is like 7 weeks away for SA. I don't think Spandex wants to wait 7 weeks to call their bluff. His Greek team might just move on without him.

[Obstructed_View]

Somebody refresh my memory: Is it a terrible thing if he changes his mind and decides to show up? I know the only thing he's done more than turn the ball over is commit fouls, but isn't he worth a risk in a position where there's some need?

[Streakyshooter08]

Somebody refresh my memory: Is it a terrible thing if he changes his mind and decides to show up? I know the only thing he's done more than turn the ball over is commit fouls, but isn't he worth a risk in a position where there's some need?

Well he really has talent. He was the best player on the court when Greece beat the USA last year. He is quick and has a very good midrange shot. He also is a good defensive player (at least for european standard). I don't know why he struggled so much last year. I haven't seen him play for Houston, so I don't know if they did not use him right or if it was his incapablility to play under US rules (mabye both). I think he would have been a good addition.


If Spanoulis agrees to just cancel the contract without getting any money. Would that take that long also? I mean if he breaks the contract, how can he expect a buyout?

[Mr. Body]

Well he really has talent. He was the best player on the court when Greece beat the USA last year. He is quick and has a very good midrange shot. He also is a good defensive player (at least for european standard). I don't know why he struggled so much last year. I haven't seen him play for Houston, so I don't know if they did not use him right or if it was his incapablility to play under US rules (mabye both). I think he would have been a good addition.

Like Jasikevicius, Macijauskas, and other recent European guards, he's simply not fast nor quick enough for the American game. He wasn't just mediocre; he was bad.

[Bruno]

IMO, Spanoulis has still agreed to be release for $0.

Spanoulis contract is a good trade asset. With Spanoulis, a team can trade a player to Spurs without taking back salaries. Spurs should be looking at what to do with Spanoulis contract and with some luck, they could do a deal with Spanoulis like the Hedo/Ferry trade in 03.
The more Spurs keep Spanoulis, the more they will have a chance to do a trade.

The only edge of waiving Spanoulis now instead of in one month, is to be "nice" with him and his agent. Unless Panathinaikos has given a deadline to Spanoulis to sign him or his agent is really doing bad press to Spurs in Europe, Spurs have no serious reason to rush the release. It's even possible that Spurs have decided of a deadline with Spanoulis agent to release him.

There are too other scenarios like Spanoulis wanting money or Spurs wanting to keep him but I don't believe in them at all.

[BronxCowboy]

IMO, Spanoulis has still agreed to be release for $0.

Spanoulis contract is a good trade asset. With Spanoulis, a team can trade a player to Spurs without taking back salaries. Spurs should be looking at what to do with Spanoulis contract and with some luck, they could do a deal with Spanoulis like the Hedo/Ferry trade in 03.
The more Spurs keep Spanoulis, the more they will have a chance to do a trade.

The only edge of waiving Spanoulis now instead of in one month, is to be "nice" with him and his agent. Unless Panathinaikos has given a deadline to Spanoulis to sign him or his agent is really doing bad press to Spurs in Europe, Spurs have no serious reason to rush the release. It's even possible that Spurs have decided of a deadline with Spanoulis agent to release him.

There are too other scenarios like Spanoulis wanting money or Spurs wanting to keep him but I don't believe in them at all.

Nice take, Bruno. I think you hit the nail on the head. I've thought that the Spurs had something else in mind ever since they did this deal.

[Mr. Body]

It's an interesting idea but likely no more than wishful thinking. To take any salary back for Spanoulis would involve the luxury tax and the Spurs have no intention of paying that. Unless you think the game's suddenly changed completely? More likely the scenarios painted in other threads are closer to base: Spanoulis will be waived completely and only if Barry/Udrih are moved for much less cash will another player like Udoka be brought over. The question will be how many second round picks the Spurs will have to utilize to get rid of those two players (which they will, since they've already demonstrated desperation to get rid of money).

[ducks]

It's an interesting idea but likely no more than wishful thinking. To take any salary back for Spanoulis would involve the luxury tax and the Spurs have no intention of paying that. Unless you think the game's suddenly changed completely? More likely the scenarios painted in other threads are closer to base: Spanoulis will be waived completely and only if Barry/Udrih are moved for much less cash will another player like Udoka be brought over. The question will be how many second round picks the Spurs will have to utilize to get rid of those two players (which they will, since they've already demonstrated desperation to get rid of money).
yeah because spurs never pay the tax
what they did last year

[Bruno]

It's an interesting idea but likely no more than wishful thinking.

Re-read my post, I've never said Spurs keep Spanoulis because they will trade him.
It's all about keeping doors open.
If you waive Spanoulis, you have no choice. If you keep him, you still have the choice even if the most likely case is that he will be released.



To take any salary back for Spanoulis would involve the luxury tax and the Spurs have no intention of paying that. Unless you think the game's suddenly changed completely?

Spurs not ready to pay the luxury tax is your assumption.
FACT : Spurs have paid the luxury tax these past two years.
Holt likely disagrees to be $5M over the tax, it's not sure that he hasn't agreed to be something like $1M over it.

[Mr. Body]

I never said you said they'd keep Spanoulis.

I said trading Spanoulis's vanishing contract is an interesting option, but doubtful.

One thing that's clear: the Spurs really fucking hate paying the luxury tax. They are under the lux line or practically at the moment AND have a full team with no other current needs to be met. Trading Spanoulis off for an asset is unlikely.

YES Spanoulis is effectively a trade exception at this point, but I'd like to see your ideas of who the Spurs would gladly pay double (via tax) to bring onto their roster.

[Bruno]

One thing that's clear: the Spurs really fucking hate paying the luxury tax.

The problem is that it's not that clear.
Ludden said in february (before the deadline) that going under the luxury tax wasn't a Spurs' priority.
You can always said that Ludden say PR BS but Spurs haven't done a trade to go underthe the luxury tax threshold while it was quite easy to do so.



YES Spanoulis is effectively a trade exception at this point, but I'd like to see your ideas of who the Spurs would gladly pay double (via tax) to bring onto their roster.

I won't give you some fantasy trades but don't forget that Spurs have chosen to pay the luxury tax last year to keep James White and Melvin Ely. It's far from sure that Spurs are only ready to pay the luxury tax to get a great player.The player "who Spurs would gladly pay double" could be an average one.

Spurs will likely waive Spanoulis at the end. A trade is kinda unlikely but I don't think it's because of the luxury tax. The Hedo/Ferry trade was a 3 team trade with Brad Miller, Spurs best opportunity to trade Spanoulis for a useful player is to be a part of a big multi team trade.
Spurs are just waiting to see if there will be a trade opportunity. If they don't find one (and they likely won't find one), it won't be a big deal and they will just release Spanoulis.

[ducks]

did not the suns just give kurt thomas away for nothing
trying to get under the tax
kurt was a proven nba player that helped his team alot against the spurs the champs!

[Mr. Body]

I won't give you some fantasy trades but don't forget that Spurs have chosen to pay the luxury tax last year to keep James White and Melvin Ely. It's far from sure that Spurs are only ready to pay the luxury tax to get a great player.The player "who Spurs would gladly pay double" could be an average one.

They acquired Melvin Ely in part to shave off luxury tax expenses. Also because he was big-man insurance, perhaps, in case they faced Shaq or needed him in any way. Of course, he blew. The decision on James White came earlier in the year than the trade deadline; cutting him would have saved no money, and in any case, wouldn't have pushed them below the line. Likely they were shopping Barry, as they always have, since he's making way too much by way of greenery.

I can't see them trading for an average player when his salary would cost double. They have enough average players at the end of the bench as it is. I can't even see them signing Udoka without shaving payroll further. While I'd like them to - payroll be damned, they're going for a championship again - their ruling interest, despite what they say, is still to get under the tax threshold.

[Marcus Bryant]

IMO, Spanoulis has still agreed to be release for $0.

Spanoulis contract is a good trade asset. With Spanoulis, a team can trade a player to Spurs without taking back salaries. Spurs should be looking at what to do with Spanoulis contract and with some luck, they could do a deal with Spanoulis like the Hedo/Ferry trade in 03.
The more Spurs keep Spanoulis, the more they will have a chance to do a trade.

The only edge of waiving Spanoulis now instead of in one month, is to be "nice" with him and his agent. Unless Panathinaikos has given a deadline to Spanoulis to sign him or his agent is really doing bad press to Spurs in Europe, Spurs have no serious reason to rush the release. It's even possible that Spurs have decided of a deadline with Spanoulis agent to release him.

There are too other scenarios like Spanoulis wanting money or Spurs wanting to keep him but I don't believe in them at all.

As it stands, the Spurs are on the hook for $1.9 mil or so to him currently. Given where they stand with 2007-08 payroll and the lux tax threshold they will need to clear up his situation before they sign anyone else. Yes, they could use his contract in a trade, but I think the holdup is that they want him to go away for nothing.

[Bruno]

They acquired Melvin Ely in part to shave off luxury tax expenses. Also because he was big-man insurance, perhaps, in case they faced Shaq or needed him in any way. Of course, he blew. The decision on James White came earlier in the year than the trade deadline; cutting him would have saved no money, and in any case, wouldn't have pushed them below the line.

Spurs were over the luxury tax when they have signed James White!. James White! was worth for Spurs paying $1.2M instead of $400K.
Spurs could have easily gone under the tax at the deadline by asking Charlotte to waive Ely before the trade (and give them the cash for it) or by trading James White! + cash + 2nd round pick to a team with a roster spot (Philly has done the same kind at the deadline by trading Henderson to Utah). Spurs would have saved more than $2M by doing one of these trades.

When you look at what Spurs have done last year, you can't say : "One thing that's clear: the Spurs really fucking hate paying the luxury tax.". It was more "One thing that's clear: paying few luxury tax isn't a fucking big problem for Spurs.".



their ruling interest, despite what they say, is still to get under the tax threshold.

Spurs not wanting to go over the luxury tax is just an assumption and when you look at recent facts, it's not more likely that Spurs agreeing to be slightly over the luxury tax.

If you consider Spurs not wanting to go over the tax threshold as a sure thing, either you are stupid or a Spurs ownership hater.

[Bruno]

I think the holdup is that they want him to go away for nothing.

So you think that Spanoulis, whose agent is crying "Free V-Span" in all Greek medias and who will earned more money in Europe than in nba, disagrees to go away for nothing ?

[Marcus Bryant]

So you think that Spanoulis, whose agent is crying "Free V-Span" in all Greek medias and who will earned more money in Europe than in nba, disagrees to go away for nothing ?

Deflecting the blame, that's all.

[exstatic]

So you think that Spanoulis, whose agent is crying "Free V-Span" in all Greek medias and who will earned more money in Europe than in nba, disagrees to go away for nothing ?
I think the agent is now aware that Houston included cash in the trade "in case" they needed to do a buyout. Agents often say one thing while working towards something else. That's why they're agents.

[Bruno]

Some updates :
http://www.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=702794

Spanoulis is a good player, I hope Spurs will keep him if he agrees to play in SA.

[Streakyshooter08]

Thanks Bruno! Is it true that he wants to come over if the Spurs want him (last post at realgm)? Everything I heard to this point was that he wants to stay in Greece. I wonder if one talk with TP really convinced him to come. I would like to see him with the Spurs and ship Beno somewhere else...

[Holt's Cat]

At this point I wouldn't mind seeing if he can resurrect his NBA career. That would give the Spurs the prospect of getting something out of the Scola trade. But if he did join the team along with Udoka then someone else (ie Barry) has to go.

[Ocotillo]

Holt: Who the hell is letting Parker talk with the Greek?!!?

[ducks]

keep this guy cut beno

[timvp]

Nice find, Bruno. I wouldn't mind it at all if the Spurs somehow manage to trade away Beno and then use that money to keep V-Span. V-Span is a much better player than Beno and still has some quality upside.

Either way the Spurs win in the V-Span situation. If he comes, he's good enough to be a good prospect. If he doesn't come, the Spurs can use his roster spot and money saved elsewhere.

[CubanMustGo]

Interesting ... c'mon Cleveland, pull the trigger on Beno, you know you need him ... you KNOW you want him ... after all he's more talented than Gino, just ask him ...

[Bruno]

Some updates :
http://www.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=702794

Spanoulis is a good player, I hope Spurs will keep him if he agrees to play in SA.

A Greek poster has translated today's article about Spanoulis, thanks to him :


Vasilis Spanoulis had the chance on Saturday not only to play once again against Tony Parker but to talk to him as well. The two of them also met on Sunday during the break between the two games of the tournament (France vs Slovenia and Greece vs Serbia).
"I know we got you" Parker said. The two of them (born in '82) know each other since 2000 when Greece played against France twice.
The newly wed star of the Spurs tried to convince his new teammate by telling him "Reconsider. I think it would be better for you if you played with the Spurs". Parker has won 3 titles with the Spurs.
Spanoulis has expressed an interest in returning to Greece, even though he has been offered the chance to play with the best team in the world (as the americans call the NBA champions).
But since he has not been released yet, he appears to be reconsidering his initial decision, something that wouldn't have happened if he was traded to a team other than the Spurs.


Spanoulis will be both closer to and further from being released from the Spurs on Tuesday. It all depends on what San Antonio will do.
Ime Udoka has signed a 2-year contract for 2 millions per year and has become the 14th player. This is where Spanoulis come sinto play. If the Spurs want to sign 2 more players, they will have to buy out Spanoulis.
If Spanoulis is released in favor of a more experienced guard, he will receive half of the 1,944,000 dollars on his contract. The Spurs have an option for a third year worth 2,088,000. Even if the Spurs keep Spanoulis, they have the option to release him next summer.
The final countdown will begin on Tuesday, that is if RC Buford wants to release Spanoulis. Spurs have both the watermelon and the knife right now.
Vasilis can only wait. At least things are moving on.

note: The article is written by a reporter of the team that wants to sign him, so they are more than likely expressing their own hopes of signing him. I don't think they have any sources that would indicate the Spurs are planning to release Billy.

[spursreport]

Is this Vasoline guy even athletic or tough enough to be in the nba? Can he play any kind of D? Can he even help in the scoring department?

[Bruno]

I wonder few things :
When Parker say to Spanoulis "reconsider", is it because Spurs have asked him to do so ?
Is Spanoulis really changing his mind about playing with Spurs or is it just a tactic to get a bigger buyout ?
I'm really surprised that Spurs will have to give him half of his salary if they waive him. I don't see at all Spanoulis being waived and getting money.

:downspin:

[picnroll]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XT7uOvKGvR8&search=spanoulis

[ggoose25]

Spurs have both the watermelon and the knife right now.

:lol

Sounds like some colloquial idiom akin to "make or break you" that I really like.

[Bruno]

http://www.superbasket.gr/?c=139&a=5898

Spanoulis will be release before Tuesday.

[BronxCowboy]

damn, that's too bad . . . I think

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Translation please?

[timvp]

http://www.superbasket.gr/?c=139&a=5898

Spanoulis will be release before Tuesday.Sucks, if true. However, this story keeps going back and forth. Any reason why to believe this report more than others? V-Span has reportedly been "days away" from being released like 15 times so far this summer.

[Bruno]

^ We will see but it seems kinda solid because they are giving some details.

[Bruno]

Translation please?

Panathinaikos FO has asked Spurs FO when/if they will release Spanoulis. Spurs FO has said they will release him before before Tuesday.

[yavozerb]

What would be the min. contract THud could be offered? Just wondering, cause this may be our next player signed!!

[ChumpDumper]

Do we still have Troy Hudson's number?

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Babelfish translation (loosely):


The lies finish... At the latest as Tuesday (21/08) Vasilis Spanoy'lis will have realised his big wish, that is not other than to get dressed itself once again in greens! The Greek guard had taken a long time ago the decision to abandon... American dream in order to it returns under the roof of Panathinaikos. And while the process e'mojaze initially the simple, afterwards his concession by their Ro'kets in the champions Spurs, situation perjple'hcike enough and the all history "pulled" much more from as long as waited for the himself, the persons of his narrow environment, but also managing the champions Europe. However, finally good, all good... The official Panathinaikos has come in communication with members of administration of his team As Anto'njo and he has received all the essential assurances, that at the latest as Tuesday (21/08) the B-break will be free from their Spurs. What means this? That automatically it will wear once again the green vest, and as him they have put in the eye and other European teams, with the first and better Taoy'. And this will happen, not only because the Kill-Bill knows what wants, but already has signed with the Panathinaikos.

[yavozerb]

Is v-span planning on signing with same team the spurs will be playing in pre-season? I hope so, that way we can all thank him for clearing a roster spot for our younger players.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Panathinaikos FO has asked Spurs FO when/if they will release Spanoulis. Spurs FO has said they will release him before before Tuesday.
:depressed

On to Troy.

[yavozerb]

The rest of the off season should go as followed:
- Spanoulis waived
- Thud signs for about same amount as Vaughn
- Trade Beno to Cleveland for Wesley (only if retiring) or trade exception
- Sign Ian and Sankidze to cheap contracts which I believe would fill out roster (15)
Hopefully with these moves they stay under luxury tax

[ChumpDumper]

Pickings are getting very slim if we want to replace Beno with a free agent.

[barbacoataco]

Why would the Spurs want Troy Hudson? As a 3rd string PG? I can't see that being very helpful to him or the team. Vaughn has proven himself to be adequate as Parker's backup, and he is signed for two more years. I would rather see the Spurs add a young prospect with potential as the 3rd PG, or just keep Beno so fans have someone to make fun of.

[Bruno]

If Spurs waive Spanoulis as reported :

I'm a little disappointed because Spanoulis could have been a good nba player but I can understand that he wants to come back in Greece with his family problems. It seems that he badly wanted to go back in Greece and keeping an unhappy player makes no sense for Spurs. I wish him the best in Greece.

I will be curious to see what Spurs will do with Beno. With Udoka signing, Spurs are in the luxury tax area and Beno will be expensive ($3.5M)
If Spurs want to save some money, they will have to trade him for nothing or to buy him out.
The problem is that there aren't a lot of teams to dump him in (Cleveland, Charlotte and maybe Golden State) and that it's not sure that Beno will accept a buyout to sign a contract with an European team.

It looks like Beno will spend one more year with Spurs. i have nothing against that as long as he doesn't complain and hurt Spurs' chemistry.

[phxspurfan]

His nickname is Kill Bill? That's way better than Flight White, for an end-of-bench warmer guy.

[ChumpDumper]

So.....

CJ Watson or Cheyne Gadson?

[Bruno]

Cheyne Gadson will play in Italy next year.

[barbacoataco]

Maybe the spurs will play Beno some early in the season, in an effort to tempt another team to take him.

[ChumpDumper]

Cheyne Gadson will play in Italy next year.CJ it is then....

:elephant

[Indazone]

If Spurs waive Spanoulis as reported :

I'm a little disappointed because Spanoulis could have been a good nba player but I can understand that he wants to come back in Greece with his family problems. It seems that he badly wanted to go back in Greece and keeping an unhappy player makes no sense for Spurs. I wish him the best in Greece.

I will be curious to see what Spurs will do with Beno. With Udoka signing, Spurs are in the luxury tax area and Beno will be expensive ($3.5M)
If Spurs want to save some money, they will have to trade him for nothing or to buy him out.
The problem is that there aren't a lot of teams to dump him in (Cleveland, Charlotte and maybe Golden State) and that it's not sure that Beno will accept a buyout to sign a contract with an European team.

It looks like Beno will spend one more year with Spurs. i have nothing against that as long as he doesn't complain and hurt Spurs' chemistry.


That would be too bad. I really wanted to see V-Span make it in the NBA on some team somewhere. Well..I'll wait to see if there's an official press release before I buy into the V-Span has been released bandwagon. BTW, here's some video of the player you could have gotten or may get.

http://www.youtube.com/v/cEpqq6I3WB4

[T Park]

CJ Watson?

God no....

[ChumpDumper]

Unless Hud is in the pipeline, I don't see much happening with Beno. Someone would really have to wow them in a workout or training camp to let go of the bird in hand. Most of the guys worth a crap from the D-League last season have gone to Europe. Hopefully some other guys are ready to come back to take their chances at camp.

[naico]

So that means 2 spots are open?

[phxspurfan]

http://img65.imageshack.us/img65/4818/allexitsmy3.jpg

[Streakyshooter08]

:pctoss

[Mr. Body]

It's comical to me the wizened heads on this board believed:

1) Spanoulis had any NBA-level talent whatsoever.

2) Spanoulis has more credibility on any of his 'feud' with Jeff Van Gundy, who has actually had success in this league and a good reputation and is well-liked.

3) Spanoulis's diva, crybaby behavior was in any way justified and would somehow vanish as a Spur.

4) That Spanoulis would rather take an about-face and chose an iffy, back-up role with no guaranteed minutes with the Spurs, in a league that is too fast and talented for him, where he'd be stuck deep behind the reigning Finals MVP, over a starring role with a team and a fanbase that is crazy about him, and in his homeland.

5) That somehow it is worse for him leaving without a trace than him being on the squad.

You guys have been crazy about this whole ordeal. The only way the Scola trade made an iota of sense is if Spanoulis vanished forever. I only hope he's not actually 'waived,' where I believe the contract still counts against the cap, but is instead walking away from it completely.

Spanoulis: Ptui.

If San Antonio manages to sign Hudson for cheap, they may force Cleveland to trade the exception for Udrih. Otherwise it's Beno again for us.

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

I just now got through to call Billy. I told him about talk here on Spurs board, he only knew Rockets board before.

He looked here and told me to tell Mr. Body that when pre-season starts he will now own Rockets and Spurs.

He will dominate both and his team will win. He will then post on here and make Mr. Body own up just like Jeff Van Gundy.

[Mr. Body]

I just now got through to call Billy. I told him about talk here on Spurs board, he only knew Rockets board before.

He looked here and told me to tell Mr. Body that when pre-season starts he will now own Rockets and Spurs.

He will dominate both and his team will win. He will then post on here and make Mr. Body own up just like Jeff Van Gundy.

:lol Yes! And then we'll have a fist fight! I'll smash a bottle of ouzo in his face and make him shave his manly stubble! Then Billy will cry!

[Indazone]

V-Span's expectations before he came to the United States. You can see clearly that there were a lot of expectations of Vasilis's side. JVG - Lets glue him to the bench damn euorookie!

Rockets aquire Greek player, Spanoulis If Vasilis Spanoulis sat behind the wheel of a car for a living, it wouldn't be a Formula One racer hugging the curves gracefully or a sleek Ferrari hitting top speeds out on the autobahn.

He'd be a taxi driver, just barreling his way into places and not worrying about picking up a few dents or scrapes. Spanoulis wouldn't follow the road, but make his own path, zigging, zagging, jumping curbs and getting around or going through the pedestrians who got in his path.

His nickname with Panathinaikos in Athens is "Kill Bill," taken from the Quentin Tarantino movie and it only takes a few trips up and down the basketball court to understand why. He takes no prisoners.

One of the first times he got his hands on the ball in Greece's opening elimination game against China, he head-faked once, dribbled to his left and then took off straight for the basket against 7-6 Yao Ming. Then there were his assaults on the hoop in the win over Team USA.


Aggressive style
"Yes, yes, yes. Aggressive," Spanoulis said, nodding. "That's something that I like. It's how I play — aggressive and fast. It's my style."


One that he says he'll bring in a few more weeks to Rockets training camp to blend with Yao and Tracy McGrady.

"I think those two, obviously, are the superstars on the team and in the league," Spanoulis said. "Great offensive players. I will put my aggressiveness to the team to make them something better."

Oh yes, he's confident.

"Adjustments to my game?" he said. "None. This is the basketball I would like to play in the NBA. I think I will be ready for the league from the first days. I believe I will not have a problem. No worries. I believe so much in myself and I'm ready to play there. It's why I'm making this step in my career."

The 6-4 guard looks like a fire hydrant, plays like a fullback and attacks the hoop like a pit bull going after the postman's ankle. He squeezes through cracks in the defense that others don't see or he creates openings.


Playing hardball
He bumps and bangs people all over the floor. That is, when he's not diving onto the floor to chase a loose ball.


"In Greece, we have a term for him," said Yiannis Fileris, a journalist who writes for the website Sport 24. "We call him a 'basketball maniac.' All he ever thinks about is the game and how to win it. He is crazy on the court.

"He is wild. I'll tell you, people in Houston will love him."

Whenever, eventually, he gets onto the court. Spanoulis is not Yao, a No. 1 overall draft choice who had all of the tools to be an NBA All-Star. This is a second-round pick, No. 50 overall, trying to break into a league where few players taken that low succeed.

"I just worry a little about the expectation level that people might have for Vasilis when he first gets here," said Rockets coach Jeff Van Gundy, who's been following the World Basketball Championship on TV from Houston.


Making adjustments

"He's got to adapt to a new culture, a new role and new teammates. He's got to find out if the things he's done over there in Greece can carry over to the NBA. You know, this is a very, very hard, tough league."

For every tale of a Manu Ginobili or Andres Nocioni coming from abroad to stake a spot and claim a measure of stardom in the NBA, there is an Arvydas Macijauskas of Lithuania, who wasted away all of last season at the end of the New Orleans/Oklahoma City Hornets bench.

Spanoulis shrugs. He went from a nice guard playing for second-tier Greek club Maroussi into a star player for Panathinaikos and the national team in a little more than a year.


Plays with passion
"I have passion," Spanoulis said.


And he wears it on his sleeve. Along with an air of imperviousness.

Spanoulis talked about the fun he had playing against the U.S. team. He spoke of the gold-medal game against Spain as a day in the park.

"I am always happy to play in these types of games," he said. "There is no stress. No pressure. Just confidence and you play."

Van Gundy cringes every time he hears big things predicted so early and had to know that everything just got ratcheted up another notch when Spanoulis led Greece with 22 points and made so many big plays to beat the U.S. team.

That was Spanoulis going end-to-end for driving layups. That was Spanoulis pulling up to hit three 3-pointers and twice drawing fouls on long jumpers, then going to the line and burying six straight free throws.

He ran the pick-and-roll offense and whipped slick passes inside to his big men for layups.

"I am very happy he leaves Europe, so I don't have to guard him this year," said Greek teammate Theo Papaloukas, who plays for Moscow CSKA in the Russian Superleague. "He's very strong. He has a winning mentality and deserves to go to the NBA. I think he's going to fight for this."

Spanoulis practically crackles and pops like a downed power line and can be just as dangerous.

"There are many ways to succeed and fail in the NBA," Van Gundy said. "One of the ways is to be in the ballpark talent-wise and make up for what you lack with a love for the game and competition. I'd always bet on guys with passion."

In the first telephone conversation that the player had with his new coach, Spanoulis told Van Gundy, "It's just basketball."


Culture shock
It is and it isn't. It's culture shock and a new league and new teammates and so many different things that maybe only Yao — who went through it at warp speed under a much greater microscope — can clue him into.


"Basketball is the same everywhere, in Europe and the States," Spanoulis said. "Now it's up to me to play the same basketball. When you have better teammates, you can play much better.

"This is what I expect."

You watch him bounce around the court like a pinball against the Americans, finding ways and making plays. You stand next to him and practically feel the electric current.

"I watch a lot of NBA on TV," Spanoulis said. "I know most of the players and how they play. I know the league. I like this type of basketball. I am ready to go to Houston and start with the games. This will be fun."

That's "Kill Bill," coming soon to a theater near you.

[ChumpDumper]

Why did you post this?

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

:lol

[ploto]

Can someone verify for me when his father died? The article about Tony says he died recently, but I thought he died a while ago. I ask simply because I want to know the story to understand. If his father died and the Rockets did not let him go, then I understand his being upset, but I do not think that is accurate- is it? It seems more like his mother still has not handled it all and relies very much on her sons, and he should have never signed with the NBA in the first place. That situation is not going to change, even if he was with the Spurs. It sounds like he wants/needs to be close to his mom.

[Indazone]

Can someone verify for me when his father died? The article about Tony says he died recently, but I thought he died a while ago. I ask simply because I want to know the story to understand. If his father died and the Rockets did not let him go, then I understand his being upset, but I do not think that is accurate- is it? It seems more like his mother still has not handled it all and relies very much on her sons, and he should have never signed with the NBA in the first place. That situation is not going to change, even if he was with the Spurs. It sounds like he wants/needs to be close to his mom.

Father died in 1997. So it's been 10 years. Needless to say, Spanouilis mother doesn't do well without Vasilis and vice versa. Vspan if his comments are true is a big Mamma's boy. Unless he's telling a story to the press as an excuse not to come back to the Rockets.

[BeerIsGood!]

If his mother truly needs him then he should negotiate with the Spurs to get out of his contract and go back to Greece. Family first.

[raspsa]

It sounds like he wants/needs to be close to his mom.

Or better still, have his mom come over to SA.. I'm sure she'd be made to feel welcome.

[ploto]

Father died in 1997. So it's been 10 years. Needless to say, Spanouilis mother doesn't do well without Vasilis and vice versa. Vspan if his comments are true is a big Mamma's boy.
That is what I thought- his father died some time ago. I was curious about the article above that said he died recently.

I have no problem with him being a momma's boy-- I mention it as it pertains to the Spurs that this part of him would not change no matter whom he played for, and he should stay in Greece then. His situation is not merely about the Rockets then.

[Kori Ellis]

Can someone verify for me when his father died? The article about Tony says he died recently, but I thought he died a while ago. I ask simply because I want to know the story to understand. If his father died and the Rockets did not let him go, then I understand his being upset, but I do not think that is accurate- is it? It seems more like his mother still has not handled it all and relies very much on her sons, and he should have never signed with the NBA in the first place. That situation is not going to change, even if he was with the Spurs. It sounds like he wants/needs to be close to his mom.

I agree that it's a confusing story. By most accounts, his dad died in 1996 or 1997. I've read reports of his mom being poor and alone (this season) and that's why he wanted to leave. Yet other articles say that his older brother has always taken care of the family since his dad's passing.

I don't get how his mom would be poor if he was making NBA money - or even money in Euroleague prior. The whole thing is kind of weird because some articles kept saying that the Rockets wouldn't let him go deal with stuff related to his dad's death. Yet, I think his dad died when he was 14.

[The Mole]

Don't worry... I'll dig up the truth

[Holt's Cat]

Rockets fans are like that bitch at the club. You know, the one in her early 40s with the 'work' done. Yeah, you were good. Back before the internets.

[Indazone]

Rockets fans are like that bitch at the club. You know, the one in her early 40s with the 'work' done. Yeah, you were good. Back before the internets.

But we still got Scola. And...for that we are eternally grateful! :p:

[ChumpDumper]

But we still got Scola. And...for that we are eternally grateful! :p:Have you figured out he can't play the three spot yet?

[Holt's Cat]

Scola? We got 4 titles. Enjoy the leftovers.

[Holt's Cat]

Damn, it must suck when the best hope for your team is a player the defending champs were willing to give up.

[BeerIsGood!]

Cracker jack journalism

[Indazone]

Damn, it must suck when the best hope for your team is a player the defending champs were willing to give up.


Yeah Yeah...I read the bulletin boards when San Antonio made the trade to Houston. LOL sure were a lot of four letter expletives flying around in here LMAO.

[Buddy Holly]

If the Spurs had waived VSpan or just release him from his contract wouldn't the Spurs have released that already like any other waiving/releasing? Maybe there is a chance/hope that he will play for the Spurs.

[BeerIsGood!]

Maybe, or either he or the Spurs are trying to get some money out of the thing and the other side doesn't want to budge yet

[ChumpDumper]

Yeah Yeah...I read the bulletin boards when San Antonio made the trade to Houston. LOL sure were a lot of four letter expletives flying around in here LMAO.Yes we couldn't stand losing such a great small forward with a fantastic three point shot and perimeter defense skills.

[Holt's Cat]

Now the bar is minor offseason trades.

[Mr. Body]

Father died in 1997. So it's been 10 years. Needless to say, Spanouilis mother doesn't do well without Vasilis and vice versa. Vspan if his comments are true is a big Mamma's boy. Unless he's telling a story to the press as an excuse not to come back to the Rockets.

Ding! Ding! Ding! We have a winnah!

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

That is what I thought- his father died some time ago. I was curious about the article above that said he died recently.

I have no problem with him being a momma's boy-- I mention it as it pertains to the Spurs that this part of him would not change no matter whom he played for, and he should stay in Greece then. His situation is not merely about the Rockets then.


I believe this is issue of different language. "Recently" probably means the person says something in Greek then they try to say it back in English, then they try to translate it by best word.

It's just several translations. I think they just mean that not too long ago his mother was suicidal because of her depression, this has happened recently even though it had happened many times before even since his father died, this was most recent occurrence.

Above is how Billy try to explain it to me.

Just look at Babelfish then think of trying to get an exact translation from Greek conversation with Billy and someone, who then may speak poor English, telling someone else over the phone in Greek, then that person who may not have best English tries to write this in English.

Plus there are not exact word for word with same meanings, it is not like every word in English can have another exact word in Greek.

[wildbill2u]

Plus there are not exact word for word with same meanings, it is not like every word in English can have another exact word in Greek."

Gotcha! For example in Greek, the word Rockets = Persians.

[Hüseyin Ilkin]

Spanoulis want the play Greece so he will go Europe for the play there and he would happy there.He said that this summer and he still says that..
He doesn't play for us this year,but he will return after play Europe,and he play for us well another year..
Because;
1-)He is being happy.
2-)Spurs players are international player,Parker-Manu-Udrih-Duncan-Elson-Oberto,after one year Splitter.He doesn't to lost time,for used to Spurs System and Nba.
3-)Spurs Pg rotation is very good,he study for played this team and this job improved Spa.

[xmas1997]

This just makes it all the more confusing!
I, for one, hopes he and the Spurs decide he needs to be a Spur.
But has this already been decided, and is he coming or not?

[xmas1997]

Spanoulis want the play Greece so he will go Europe for the play there and he would happy there.He said that this summer and he still says that..
He doesn't play for us this year,but he will return after play Europe,and he play for us well another year..
Because;
1-)He is being happy.
2-)Spurs players are international player,Parker-Manu-Udrih-Duncan-Elson-Oberto,after one year Splitter.He doesn't to lost time,for used to Spurs System and Nba.
3-)Spurs Pg rotation is very good,he study for played this team and this job improved Spa.

Still not sure I understand what you are saying.
Do you mean he will not play for the Spurs this coming season, but instead will play a year in Europe and then come over to the Spurs along with Tiago Splitter?
Or is he coming this season since he is supposedly under contract to the Spurs?
Or has that contract been mutually absolved, and he will come at a later year as a free agent?
What?????????????????? :dizzy

[exstatic]

Vasilinus Spanikopitus isn't coming. It sounds like he wants to play in Europe bad enough to walk away from the rest of his contract $$$. If that's the case, he'll probably never soil the NBA hardwood again.

[Hüseyin Ilkin]

Still not sure I understand what you are saying.
Do you mean he will not play for the Spurs this coming season, but instead will play a year in Europe and then come over to the Spurs along with Tiago Splitter?
Or is he coming this season since he is supposedly under contract to the Spurs?
Or has that contract been mutually absolved, and he will come at a later year as a free agent?
What?????????????????? :dizzy

He isn't play for Spurs this year.Because he isn't want play Nba this year..
We don't pay Spanoulis money,because he is going to Greece and Panat. pay his money..
And another year,maybe he will return us,or don't return.He is choose next year..
But;he is return Nba next year,I Think he fit Spurs,and improve performance..
Now;he is decivise that play Europe but not accept..

[xmas1997]

Vasilinus Spanikopitus isn't coming. It sounds like he wants to play in Europe bad enough to walk away from the rest of his contract $$$. If that's the case, he'll probably never soil the NBA hardwood again.
Not necessarily.
He could just sign a one year contract with the Greek team and then come try to make the Spurs the same season that Tiago comes over.
Any PG the Spurs sign will most likely only be given a one year contract like JV has. And if they keep Beno another year, his contract ends after this season, so VSpan could easily put himself into a position to try to make the Spurs after this coming season since there will be openings and the Spurs reportedly like him a lot, consider him in the vein of a Manu-like player but at PG.

[Dave McNulla]

He isn't play for Spurs this year.Because he isn't want play Nba this year..
We don't pay Spanoulis money,because he is going to Greece and Panat. pay his money..
And another year,maybe he will return us,or don't return.He is choose next year..
But;he is return Nba next year,I Think he fit Spurs,and improve performance..
Now;he is decivise that play Europe but not accept..he's under contract. he can't play for the euroleague unless his contract is settled here (bilaterally cancelled, maybe some kind of negotiated buyout).

[Bruno]

Tons of Greek article are now reporting that Spurs have agreed to release Spanoulis and that he will sign a €5M/3 years contract ($6.7M/3 years) with Panathinaikos.
We will see but I really think Spanoulis will be waive/release on Monday.

[Indazone]

Tons of Greek article are now reporting that Spurs have agreed to release Spanoulis and that he will sign a €5M/3 years contract ($6.7M/3 years) with Panathinaikos.
We will see but I really think Spanoulis will be waive/release on Monday.

If you are going off that Clutchfans article, realize that it was written on 7/26/07. Nothing new there and no official Spurs or Panathinaikos Press Release.

[magic]

Tons of Greek article are now reporting that Spurs have agreed to release Spanoulis and that he will sign a €5M/3 years contract ($6.7M/3 years) with Panathinaikos.
We will see but I really think Spanoulis will be waive/release on Monday.

yeah, it's official (Spanoulis has already signed his contract with Panathinaikos) :drunk

Diamantidis-Vujanic-Xanthopoulos
Spanoulis-Becirovic-Chatzivrettas
Winston Kennedy-Alvertis-Perperoglou
Mike Batiste-Zizic-Dikoudis
Tomasevic-Tsartsaris

Coach: Obradovic

10/11/2007 HOUSTON ROCKETS-PANATHINAIKOS :devil
10/13/2007 SAN ANTONIO SPURS-PANATHINAIKOS :toast

[exstatic]

yeah, it's official (Spanoulis has already signed his contract with Panathinaikos) :drunk

Diamantidis-Vujanic-Xanthopoulos
Spanoulis-Becirovic-Chatzivrettas
Winston Kennedy-Alvertis-Perperoglou
Mike Batiste-Zizic-Dikoudis
Tomasevic-Tsartsaris

Coach: Obradovic

10/11/2007 HOUSTON ROCKETS-PANATHINAIKOS :devil
10/13/2007 SAN ANTONIO SPURS-PANATHINAIKOS :toast
Spurs haven't released him yet. Until they do, all he can do is negotiate with PANATHINAIKOS. He can't sign shit, because the NBA has a reciprocol agreement with the European basketball body to honor each other's contracts.

[Bruno]

If you are going off that Clutchfans article, realize that it was written on 7/26/07. Nothing new there and no official Spurs or Panathinaikos Press Release.

For 3 hours, there have been a lot of Greek articles claiming that Spanoulis will be released and signed a contract with Panathinaikos.
http://news.google.fr/news?hl=el&ned=el_gr&ie=UTF-8&q=%CE%A3%CF%80%CE%B1%CE%BD%CE%BF%CF%8D%CE%BB%CE%B7 %CF%82&scoring=n

[lemon]

yeah, it's official (Spanoulis has already signed his contract with Panathinaikos) :drunk

Diamantidis-Vujanic-Xanthopoulos
Spanoulis-Becirovic-Chatzivrettas
Winston Kennedy-Alvertis-Perperoglou
Mike Batiste-Zizic-Dikoudis
Tomasevic-Tsartsaris

Coach: Obradovic

10/11/2007 HOUSTON ROCKETS-PANATHINAIKOS :devil
10/13/2007 SAN ANTONIO SPURS-PANATHINAIKOS :toast

Yeeeeessssssssssss!!!!!

Those games will proove the real Kill Bill and of course Diamantidis!!! :clap :clap :downspin:

Don't miss them! Especially w/Rockets... :hungry:

[Bruno]

Reds > Greens :)

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vasileios_Spanoulis

On August 19th, 2007, Spanoulis was released from his NBA contract by the [[San Antonio Spurs]] basketball club of the [[NBA]] after deciding he wanted to play only in Greece during the 2007-2008 season. This due to his mother being in poor health and Spanoulis' wanting to be near to her. Spanoulis signed a 3 year contract with the [[Panathinaikos BC]] Athens Greens of the Greek basketball league [[A1 Ethniki]], the defending European [[Triple Crown in Basketball]] champions and considered to be the best basketball team in the world outside of the NBA. He was signed to be the team's starting point guard and to team up with fellow [[Greece national basketball team]] star [[Dimitris Diamantidis]] to form the best back-court in the world outside of the NBA.[[http://www.insports.gr/index.php?s=2&c=1&p=113&cat=7&arthro=11742&nav=%CE%9C%CE%A0%CE%91%CE%A3%CE%9A%CE%95%CE%A4:%20 V-Span...%CE%B7%20%CE%B5%CF%80%CE%B9%CF%83%CF%84%CF% 81%CE%BF%CF%86%CE%AE]]

The contract Vassilis signed was for 3 years and €5,000,000 (equivalent to $6,742,807 US dollars at the time). Spanoulis' agent set up the contract so that Vassilis could opt out of it after one year. Spanoulis stated that after the first year of his contract he might opt out of it and return to [[San Antonio]], [[Texas]] to play with the Spurs again in the NBA, as the Spurs still would like his services. Spanoulis is interested in returning to play with them for the 2008-2009 season, but could not play with them during the 2007-2008 year because of his mother's poor health.

[timvp]

Spanoulis is interested in returning to play with them for the 2008-2009 season, but could not play with them during the 2007-2008 year because of his mother's poor health.Interesting.

Beno's contract comes off the books . . . not to mention all the other contracts. With the signing of Udoka, V-Span getting some court time over in Europe for another year makes sense, especially if the Spurs see him more as a shooting guard than a point guard.

Perhaps next summer the Spurs can sign him with the LLE.

[T Park]

does this mean his contract is off the books?

[Bruno]

does this mean his contract is off the books?

It will depend on what Spurs have negotiated with Spanoulis.
I don't think Spurs will have to give him some money but we will see.

[ploto]

You pretty much had to figure with the Spurs signing Udoka that they had worked out a release with Spanoulis.

[timvp]

Bruno, is there any way the Spurs hold some type of rights to V-Span? I don't think so but perhaps it could be some sort of non-written agreement.

However, that might not even be necessary because V-Span knows the Spurs will treat him fairly and last time with the Rockets, he saw what could happen if you go into an unknown situation.

[ploto]

Bruno, is there any way the Spurs hold some type of rights to V-Span? I don't think so but perhaps it could be some sort of non-written agreement.

However, that might not even be necessary because V-Span knows the Spurs will treat him fairly and last time with the Rockets, he saw what could happen if you go into an unknown situation.
I was thinking about that too- now he is free to sign with anyone.

[Bruno]

Bruno, is there any way the Spurs hold some type of rights to V-Span? I don't think so but perhaps it could be some sort of non-written agreement.

However, that might not even be necessary because V-Span knows the Spurs will treat him fairly and last time with the Rockets, he saw what could happen if you go into an unknown situation.

You have almost no rules for an euro contract.
You could imagine that the contract he has signed with Panathinaikos has a clause saying that his nba opt out clause is only for San Antonio.
Spurs could have ask this as a condition to release him.

There are likely no written rule against that in the CBA but there is a rule in the CBA saying that teams must respect the spirit of the CBA and not try to do tricks to bypass rules. Is asking Panathinaikos that the nba clause is only for SA against the spirit of the CBA ? To me, yes.

Verbal agreement are illegal in nba (Minny lost draft picks because of that with Joe Smith) but I think it's just Spanoulis saying to Spurs : "I'm grateful that you like me and let me go in Greece, if I come back in nba, you will have the priority over other teams."

[Bruno]

I was thinking about that too- now he is free to sign with anyone.

It's possible that he has signed a contract with Panathinaikos before being released by Spurs with a "this contract will start when Spanoulis will leave nba waivers" clause.

[ChumpDumper]

He's not coming back.

[Mr. Body]

Bruno, is there any way the Spurs hold some type of rights to V-Span? I don't think so but perhaps it could be some sort of non-written agreement.

However, that might not even be necessary because V-Span knows the Spurs will treat him fairly and last time with the Rockets, he saw what could happen if you go into an unknown situation.

Has timvp ever been so besotted with a worthless player?

[ChumpDumper]

The better question is will he play more for Panathinaikos than Javtokas did?

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

Billy tell me that he signs with Pana contract before Spurs released him, he signs it just a little after Rockets get beat by Jazz. He did change his mind and wanted to play with Spurs after talking to Parker. Spurs want him and told him they want to keep him.

Billy have made up his mind originally to leave NBA because of Rockets and Van Gundy and also because they would not allow him time with his mother. His mother even came to US to Houston and the coach would not let her call to talk to him when she was depressed and the team was traveling. Billy says that Van Gundy kept making fun of his language and accent in practice and how he ask what coach is saying sometimes.

He says Van Gundy tells him he needs translator like Yao but that he won't allow one this time because he doesn't want them around practice. Billy speaks English but sometimes he have problems with some things being said and some terms, he ask question and instead of being told answer by coach Van Gundy makes fun of him and accent.

He says then the coach would tell him that's why he rides bench, because he doesn't have time to explain things it's easier to just make him sit there than tell him things.

It makes it hard for him to get plays and Van Gundy told him he couldn't play point guard. He says Rockets coach make many players angry, himself, Yao, Mutombo, Wells, Snyder, Lucas, Novak, Howard, Tsakalidis, Hayes.

He says Rockets coach always let T-Mac, Head, Alston, Battier practice how they want. He never yell at them in practice and always talks nice and gentle with them.

He always yell at other players and always on them like crazy. He act worst with Billy and Yao. He says himself and Yao and Lucas works on game all day all time and always coach be so mean to them like a crazy dog. He says the coach always calling him, Yao, Hayes, Lucas names and calling them out. He says T-Mac never ever get this abuse.

So Billy went ahead and signed the contract with Pana before Rockets traded him. Because FIBA has rule against this the team could not send the contract in until he was released by Rockets. But from when the contract is signed it is binding.

Rockets then trade Billy to Spurs. Pana still cannot send contract in until Spurs release him due to FIBA rules, but because Billy sign contract already it is binding he play with Pana.

So Billy and his agent and Pana work out where Billy can opt out of his contract after one year if he wants to play with Spurs and if they still want him at that time.

Only reason he not going to Spurs training camp is because he already signs contract with Pana and that's binding.

Spurs like him more than Vaughn and Beno. Parker he says told Buford he likes his game very much. Also he says Lindsey tells Spurs he is much better player than Vaughn or Beno.

Billy tells me he stays with Pana this year, gets his mother back in good health and him and his brother get a situation set up for her help.

His goal for year is Greek league title, Greek cup and Euroleague title. He sets goal to be Greek league MVP, playoffs MVP, Euroleague MVP and Euroleague playoff MVP.

He will work on his game all year very hard, especially ball handling, turnovers, NBA range 3 point shooting out to 8 m he says and he keeps using weights. He then try to make Spurs next year as FA at Spurs training camp. He says they already give him invite.

[Bruno]

http://www.euroleague.net/news/i/14979/180/item

Panathinaikos brings back Spanoulis

Euroleague champion Panathinaikos has announced the return of Vassilis Spanoulis, a former all-Euroleague point guard with the Greens. Spanoulis, (193, 25) arrives after one season with Houston of the NBA. Spanoulis is a reigning European champion with the Greek national team, with whom he also won a silver medal at last fall's World Championships. He and the Greens signed a three-year contract. Spanoulis was a sudden-impact performer in his one and only Euroleague season, 2005-06, when he averaged 14.5 points and 3.1 assists while making 61.7% of his two-point shots, helping Panathinaikos reach the last game before the Final Four. Spanoulis was named to the all-Euroleague second team for his efforts that season. Prior to Panathinaikos, Spanoulis had played two seasons for Larissa of the Greek League, from 1999 to 2001, and the next four with Maroussi. He helped Maroussi to make both the Greek League finals and the FIBA Europe League title game in 2004. The next season, his only one in the ULEB Cup, he averaged 15.2 points and 4.8 assists for Maroussi. In 2005-06 with Panathinaikos, he won both the Greek League and Greek Cup. Last season, Spanoulis tried his luck in the NBA, where he averaged 2.7 points and 8.8 minutes over 31 games.

Sunday, August 19, 2007
Vassilis Skountis, Athens

[Mr. Body]

The better question is will he play more for Panathinaikos than Javtokas did?

The Who Cares Forum. What's great is the Spanoulis saga is finally over. Huzzah.

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

The better question is will he play more for Panathinaikos than Javtokas did?

It's his old team, he already was star player of team. He signs to be starting point guard. Coach already tells him expects him to be leading scorer and assist player of team.

[Mr. Body]

Billy tell me that he signs with Pana contract before Spurs released him, he signs it just a little after Rockets get beat by Jazz. He did change his mind and wanted to play with Spurs after talking to Parker. Spurs want him and told him they want to keep him.

Billy have made up his mind originally to leave NBA because of Rockets and Van Gundy and also because they would not allow him time with his mother. His mother even came to US to Houston and the coach would not let him call to talk to him when she was depressed and the team was traveling. Billy says that Van Gundy kept making fun of his language and accent in practice and how he ask what coach is saying sometimes.

Dude, get out of here with your asinine, fantastical bullshit. You're verging on libel at this point.

[Bruno]

If Spanoulis sign next summer with Spurs; it will be the dream situation for Spurs.

Spurs will save money this year with the luxury tax while Spanoulis will get back his confidence in Greece.
Spurs will get a quite cheap very good prospect next summer. I don't think Spanoulis will be expensive, even if he has a great season in Europe, because he has failed one time in nba. Spurs won't be in the luxury tax area next year.

[ploto]

It's possible that he has signed a contract with Panathinaikos before being released by Spurs with a "this contract will start when Spanoulis will leave nba waivers" clause.
I'm sorry- I meant next year. If he has an opt out, then he could sign with any NBA team next year. Sounds like he and the Spurs were amicable.

[raspsa]

If Spanoulis sign next summer with Spurs; it will be the dream situation for Spurs.

Spurs will save money this year with the luxury tax while Spanoulis will get back his confidence in Greece.
Spurs will get a quite cheap very good prospect next summer. I don't think Spanoulis will be expensive, even if he has a great season in Europe, because he has failed one time in nba. Spurs won't be in the luxury tax area next year.
Yeah. it should be interesting with Splitter joining the team at the same time.. I like the potential the new players will bring.

[Indazone]

Dude, get out of here with your asinine, fantastical bullshit. You're verging on libel at this point.

Not if it's true its not libel LOL. Who cares it still makes for entertaining reading. Being from the Rockets side, I always wondered what made Bonzi walk off the team. Maybe Kill Bill can give us some insight into that little escapade of Bonzi's if in fact you are getting real insider information. Sides, how you gonna sue someone on the internet hahahaha.

[timvp]

Has timvp ever been so besotted with a worthless player?Reggie Evans didn't get to play last year so he was pretty worthless . . .

Seriously though, we are talking about a potential third string point guard who can possibly work his way up to the backup position. You aren't going to find a superstar for an LLE contract.

I've seen V-Span play a number of times and he has NBA potential. Whether he will ever live up to it, who knows. He's no superstar or anything but we are talking about an LLE player. It's virtually no risk, especially with Jacque Vaughn on board.

Chances are he plays in Greece the rest of his life and we never hear from him again. However, he's worthy of discussion and I'm not going to hold one year under Jeff Van Gundy against him as absolute evidence that he sucks. Van Gundy in his career has coached one other European player -- Bostjan Nachbar. Nachbar looked horrrrrrrrrrrible under Van Gundy but now that he's on a different team, he actually puts up nice stats.

I liked V-Span last year before he got on the Rockets. I still think he has the upside to be better than Jacque Vaughn . . . which of course isn't saying much.

[medstudent]

Dude, get out of here with your asinine, fantastical bullshit. You're verging on libel at this point.

Take a chill pill.

How do you know he's not speaking the truth?

[ducks]

yeah lets sign a guy like nash with the lle to backup nash

people need to use their brains sometimes

[Indazone]

Billy tell me that he signs with Pana contract before Spurs released him, he signs it just a little after Rockets get beat by Jazz. He did change his mind and wanted to play with Spurs after talking to Parker. Spurs want him and told him they want to keep him.

Billy have made up his mind originally to leave NBA because of Rockets and Van Gundy and also because they would not allow him time with his mother. His mother even came to US to Houston and the coach would not let him call to talk to him when she was depressed and the team was traveling. Billy says that Van Gundy kept making fun of his language and accent in practice and how he ask what coach is saying sometimes.

He says Van Gundy tells him he needs translator like Yao but that he won't allow one this time because he doesn't want them around practice. Billy speaks English but sometimes he have problems with some things being said and some terms, he ask question and instead of being told answer by coach Van Gundy makes fun of him and accent.

He says then the coach would tell him that's why he rides bench, because he doesn't have time to explain things it's easier to just make him sit there than tell him things.

It makes it hard for him to get plays and Van Gundy told him he couldn't play point guard. He says Rockets coach make many players angry, himself, Yao, Mutombo, Wells, Snyder, Lucas, Novak, Howard, Tsakalidis, Hayes.

He says Rockets coach always let T-Mac, Head, Alston, Battier practice how they want. He never yell at them in practice and always talks nice and gentle with them.

He always yell at other players and always on them like crazy. He act worst with Billy and Yao. He says himself and Yao and Lucas works on game all day all time and always coach be so mean to them like a crazy dog. He says the coach always calling him, Yao, Hayes, Lucas names and calling them out. He says T-Mac never ever get this abuse.

So Billy went ahead and signed the contract with Pana before Rockets traded him. Because FIBA has rule against this the team could not send the contract in until he was released by Rockets. But from when the contract is signed it is binding.

Rockets then trade Billy to Spurs. Pana still cannot send contract in until Spurs release him due to FIBA rules, but because Billy sign contract already it is binding he play with Pana.

So Billy and his agent and Pana work out where Billy can opt out of his contract after one year if he wants to play with Spurs and if they still want him at that time.

Only reason he not going to Spurs training camp is because he already signs contract with Pana and that's binding.

Spurs like him more than Vaughn and Beno. Parker he says told Buford he likes his game very much. Also he says Lindsey tells Spurs he is much better player than Vaughn or Beno.

Billy tells me he stays with Pana this year, gets his mother back in good health and him and his brother get a situation set up for her help.

His goal for year is Greek league title, Greek cup and Euroleague title. He sets goal to be Greek league MVP, playoffs MVP, Euroleague MVP and Euroleague playoff MVP.

He will work on his game all year very hard, especially ball handling, turnovers, NBA range 3 point shooting out to 8 m he says and he keeps using weights. He then try to make Spurs next year as FA at Spurs training camp. He says they already give him invite.

If this is true, this is Prime Grade A Plus Dirt...I mean Dish. Keep it coming..this is great. If it's not true then it's a good for a laugh like the National Enquirer.

[Bruno]

If he has an opt out, then he could sign with any NBA team next year. Sounds like he and the Spurs were amicable.

I think it's more than just being amicable.
If Spanoulis come back in nba, he will really try to find the right team for him. Spurs are likely the right team for him and that's why he has said that he could sign with them next summer.

If Spanoulis decide to go back in the nba, it will likely be with Spurs but I don't think that he will be back in nba soon. I don't see him leaving the Greece next summer.

[lemon]

I don't see him leaving the Greece next summer.

I hope not! He's so great with Pana and coach Obradovic!

[TDMVPDPOY]

If this is true, this is Prime Grade A Plus Dirt...I mean Dish. Keep it coming..this is great. If it's not true then it's a good for a laugh like the National Enquirer.

wattabout dpoy?

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

I just wanted to say since people here wonder, Billy did say since he has opt out after one year his agent gets some other camp invites.

Billy get camp invites for next year from Mavericks of Dallas, Pistons of Detroit, Raptors of Toronto, Suns of Phoenix, Kings of Sacramento, Jazz of Utah, Warriors of Golden State, Wizards of Washington, Grizzlies of Memphis, and Spurs.

Billy say he definitely give preference and priority to Spurs as this was already worked out with them and his agent.

But he also say that Kings, Mavs, Jazz, Pistons express much interest to his agent.

Billy tell me that Joe Dumars tell his agent if things don't work out in Spurs camp Pistons offers him contract if he wants to come back to NBA. Pistons he says like him very much.

But Billy say he by far want to play with 4 time champion Spurs most over any other team. Billy also say he like Rick Adelman and Rockets teammates very much. He like Carroll Dawson and Daryl Morey but he is not sure he can trust them after some things that happened over playing time and what positions he play.

They tell him one thing then coach does another.

He says he talks with his friend Peja much about Adelman. He knows Peja from Greek League. He says Peja tell him how great Adelman is. He says Adelman very nice to him on phone and tells him he should be starting point guard last year.

He says Yao and T-Mac asked him many times to stay with team and Adelman said he would plays over Alston and James.

But Billy says his mother too ill and Rockets because of Van Gundy treat her too poor. He has too many bad memories with Van Gundy.

He says he would like play with Rockets and Yao and T-Mac and Battier very much with Adelman but he says Rockets fans hate him.

Believe he says something about being McGrady of Athens or something and about crying about his mommy over playing time.

He says this just come from coach and is all untrue. But Rockets fans believe and make fun of him too much. He is sorry to say he cannot play there again because of this.

So Billy basically tell me in end, next year he play in Athens with Greens, San Antonio with Spurs, or Detroit with Pistons. He play for one of these teams.

He says Spurs also tells him next year better for them because they have some players who will be free agents and not re-sign with them.

[Indazone]

I just wanted to say since people here wonder, Billy did say since he has opt out after one year his agent gets some other camp invites.

Billy get camp invites for next year from Mavericks of Dallas, Pistons of Detroit, Raptors of Toronto, Suns of Phoenix, Kings of Sacramento, Jazz of Utah, Warriors of Golden State, Wizards of Washington, Grizzlies of Memphis, and Spurs.

Billy say he definitely give preference and priority to Spurs as this was already worked out with them and his agent.

But he also say that Kings, Mavs, Jazz, Pistons express much interest to his agent.

Billy tell me that Joe Dumars tell his agent if things don't work out in Spurs camp Pistons offers him contract if he wants to come back to NBA. Pistons he says like him very much.

But Billy say he by far want to play with 4 time champion Spurs most over any other team. Billy also say he like Rick Adelman and Rockets teammates very much. He like Carroll Dawson and Daryl Morey but he is not sure he can trust them after some things that happened over playing time and what positions he play.

They tell him one thing then coach does another.

He says he talks with his friend Peja much about Adelman. He knows Peja from Greek League. He says Peja tell him how great Adelman is. He says Adelman very nice to him on phone and tells him he should be starting point guard last year.

He says Yao and T-Mac asked him many times to stay with team and Adelman said he would plays over Alston and James.

But Billy says his mother too ill and Rockets because of Van Gundy treat her too poor. He has too many bad memories with Van Gundy.

He says he would like play with Rockets and Yao and T-Mac and Battier very much with Adelman but he says Rockets fans hate him.

Believe he says something about being McGrady of Athens or something and about crying about his mommy over playing time.

He says this just come from coach and is all untrue. But Rockets fans believe and make fun of him too much. He is sorry to say he cannot play there again because of this.

So Billy basically tell me in end, next year he play in Athens with Greens, San Antonio with Spurs, or Detroit with Pistons. He play for one of these teams.

He says Spurs also tells him next year better for them because they have some players who will be free agents and not re-sign with them.

I find it hard to believe that Adelman would tell him he will be starting PG with no track record in the NBA and that Rockets now have James, Brooks, Francis, and Alston. He may have said, you can compete for starting PG but I doubt he said you are going to be starting PG.

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

I find it hard to believe that Adelman would tell him he will be starting PG with no track record in the NBA and that Rockets now have James, Brooks, Francis, and Alston. He may have said, you can compete for starting PG but I doubt he said you are going to be starting PG.


You miss interpret what I try to say. Billy say Adelman tells him on phone he should be starting last year. He simply have no explanation for why Rockets coach not play him. Coach Adelman watch lots of tapes and tells him and Rockets GM that if he was coach Billy would have been starter.

Coach Adelman say if he would have been coach he would play Head as backup two guard instead of backup play maker like coach Van Gundy. He would play Lucas as 3rd play maker like Van Gundy did. He would play Alston as backup play maker instead of Head, and Billy to be starting play maker instead of Alston.

Coach Adelman tell Billy he now use James in Head role and still use Billy as starter at play maker and Alston as backup. This was Billy say "probably month or so" before Francis even traded from Knicks.


Billy also say that Rockets mainly draft Brooks because Billy's agent tell them he will not play for them again due to treatment of former coach and fans misconceivings about him.

He says Rockets not draft Splitter so Spurs can get him, then Spurs trade Scola to Rockets since Rockets not take Splitter. Rockets then gives Billy to Spurs and takes Butler off their hands.

This why Rockets first draft Brooks, also why they take play maker. They not even know Francis be available at this time. Rockets very happy because Scola can come to play right away and Splitter cannot. Scola NBA ready and Splitter just his backup.

Adelman not keeping Lucas anyway so they draft Brooks because Rockets like him more. So with Billy and Lucas going and not knowing Francis become available they need new 3rd play maker.

[Reggie Miller]

Dear Kill Bill Pana:

Many of us actually enjoy your posts. Please stick around.

As I said earlier, everything I have read in this thread about JVG rings true to me, at least.

[remingtonbo2001]

You miss interpret what I try to say. Billy say Adelman tells him on phone he should be starting last year. He simply have no explanation for why Rockets coach not play him. Coach Adelman watch lots of tapes and tells him and Rockets GM that if he was coach Billy would have been starter.

Coach Adelman say if he would have been coach he would play Head as backup two guard instead of backup play maker like coach Van Gundy. He would play Lucas as 3rd play maker like Van Gundy did. He would play Alston as backup play maker instead of Head, and Billy to be starting play maker instead of Alston.

Coach Adelman tell Billy he now use James in Head role and still use Billy as starter at play maker and Alston as backup. This was Billy say "probably month or so" before Francis even traded from Knicks.


Billy also say that Rockets mainly draft Brooks because Billy's agent tell them he will not play for them again due to treatment of former coach and fans misconceivings about him.

He says Rockets not draft Splitter so Spurs can get him, then Spurs trade Scola to Rockets since Rockets not take Splitter. Rockets then gives Billy to Spurs and takes Butler off their hands.

This why Rockets first draft Brooks, also why they take play maker. They not even know Francis be available at this time. Rockets very happy because Scola can come to play right away and Splitter cannot. Scola NBA ready and Splitter just his backup.

Adelman not keeping Lucas anyway so they draft Brooks because Rockets like him more. So with Billy and Lucas going and not knowing Francis become available they need new 3rd play maker.


Interesting post. I'll be waiting for the Ludden article.

[remingtonbo2001]

If this is true, this is Prime Grade A Plus Dirt...I mean Dish. Keep it coming..this is great. If it's not true then it's a good for a laugh like the National Enquirer.


That's EXACTLY what I was just thinking. :lol These are the kind of posts we need on SPURSTALK.