Pat Tillman Was a Hero...

[Nbadan]

...and that likely got him killed....just not by the enemy...


http://i.cnn.net/si/si_online/covers/images/2006/0911_large.jpg


Army medical examiners were suspicious about the close proximity of the three bullet holes in Pat Tillman's forehead and tried without success to get authorities to investigate whether the former NFL player's death amounted to a crime, according to documents obtained by The Associated Press.

"The medical evidence did not match up with the, with the scenario as described," a doctor who examined Tillman's body after he was killed on the battlefield in Afghanistan in 2004 told investigators.

The doctors _ whose names were blacked out _ said that the bullet holes were so close together that it appeared the Army Ranger was cut down by an M-16 fired from a mere 10 yards or so away.

Ultimately, the Pentagon did conduct a criminal investigation, and asked Tillman's comrades whether he was disliked by his men and whether they had any reason to believe he was deliberately killed. The Pentagon eventually ruled that Tillman's death at the hands of his comrades was a friendly-fire accident.

----

In his last words moments before he was killed, Tillman snapped at a panicky comrade under fire to shut up and stop "sniveling."

Washington Post (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/07/26/AR2007072602025.html)

[Nbadan]

Documents shed light on Tillman’s death - Military Affairs - MSNBC.com



SNIP:

Tillmans mother, Mary Tillman, who has long suggested that her son was deliberately killed by his comrades, said she is still looking for answers and looks forward to the congressional hearings next week.

Nothing is going to bring Pat back. Its about justice for Pat and justice for other soldiers. The nation has been deceived, she said.

Suspicions initially squashed

The documents show that a doctor who autopsied Tillmans body was suspicious of the three gunshot wounds to the forehead. The doctor said he took the unusual step of calling the Armys Human Resources Command and was rebuffed. He then asked an official at the Armys Criminal Investigation Division if the CID would consider opening a criminal case.

He said he talked to his higher headquarters and they had said no, the doctor testified.

MSNBC (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19984732 /)

[Nbadan]

AP: New details on Tillman's death By MARTHA MENDOZA, AP National Writer



SAN FRANCISCO - Army medical examiners were suspicious about the close proximity of the three bullet holes in Pat Tillman's forehead and tried without success to get authorities to investigate whether the former NFL player's death amounted to a crime, according to documents obtained by The Associated Press.

Among other information contained in the documents:

• In his last words moments before he was killed, Tillman snapped at a panicky comrade under fire to shut up and stop "sniveling."

• Army attorneys sent each other congratulatory e-mails for keeping criminal investigators at bay as the Army conducted an internal friendly-fire investigation that resulted in administrative, or non-criminal, punishments.

• The three-star general who kept the truth about Tillman's death from his family and the public told investigators some 70 times that he had a bad memory and couldn't recall details of his actions.

• No evidence at all of enemy fire was found at the scene — no one was hit by enemy fire, nor was any government equipment struck.

Yahoo News (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070726/ap_on_re_us/tillman_friendly_fire)

[boutons_]

Hero killed by the enemy? no, a lie, killed by friendly fire.

Friendly fire? no, apparently murderous fire.

3 closely spaced bullet-holes in the forehead? Could a US rifle deliver 3 bullets in a tight pattern to the head, from 30 feet? Wouldn't they have to be delivered in extremely close succession?

What about Tillman lying on his back, sleeping? or already dead, the back of his head against the ground, and shot 3 times in the forehead?

TV said that if the general loses a star, it's $1000/month off his pension.

It's amazing this story isn't closed INSIDE THE ARMY, after this many years.

edit: seems like it's dead with in the Army, but not to the AP.

"The medical examiners' suspicions were outlined in 2,300 pages of testimony released to the AP this week by the Defense Department in response to a Freedom of Information Act request." AP Report

[Cant_Be_Faded]

You know god is dead and the devil is pulling the strings when truely patriotic men like this get killed and used for political agenda meanwhile college republicans are following in the footsteps of their parents.

[xrayzebra]

What in the hell has a "political agenda" got to do with, what is
now being called, a murder. It was the military who has been
accused of covering up. If he was murdered it will not be the
first time someone has been killed in a combat situation, or
murdered. It doesn't make it right, but it has happened in the
past and will happen in the future. It is not politics, it is crime.

[clambake]

What is significant is that Pat Tillman was the poster child of American heroism, and they managed to fuck that up, too.

There really is no bottom to this monster mistake pit.

[boutons_]

It's shit like this that makes military reports on Iraq in general as credible as dubya and dickhead and gonzo.

[clambake]

It's shit like this that makes military reports on Iraq in general as credible as dubya and dickhead and gonzo.
Exactly. If you don't tow the Bush line, you're fired. There should be a long line of Wrongful Termination suits.

[Yonivore]

So, Democrat Wesley Clark thinks Pat Tillman was murdered because he was about to become an anti-war hero? Judge the lunacy for yourself, his interview starts at about 1:13 in:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbQVGcBmyu0

(can we please get YouTube embedding?)

He essentially says that if Tillman was killed deliberately the orders “came from the top” and manages to invoke the idea of a Rovian plot along the way. That Clark, as a former high-ranking member of our armed forces, is even entertaining such fantasies is a disgrace.

This conspiracy mongering comes at the same time of news that the Pentagon will be ending the careers of seven military officers (http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=3417047&page=1) for mishandling the investigation into Tillman’s death, and the news that military doctors who examined Tillman’s corpse were suspicious about the proximity of the bullet holes in his body. They were close together, indicating that Tillman was shot from close range.

This is undoubtedly the genesis of a story about the government murdering one of it’s own soldiers that will last us for at least a couple of decades. Much like the idea that 9/11 was a plot to foment war in the middle east and JFK was murdered by the CIA.

But personally, I subscribe to Occam’s Razor. The simplest explanation is usually the correct one. In the case of Tillman, he was killed by his own troops. At the time the war in Iraq was relatively new, and the military didn’t want the public getting disillusioned with a sad story about a celebrity like Tillman who signed up to fight for his country only to be killed tragically by his own troops. So they covered it up and try to claim he was killed by enemy fire. They also subsequently squashed any attempt at a criminal investigation for fear that it would generate sensational headlines and further undermine the war effort (which it would have).

Bad move, not just because they got caught but also because it’s not good to lie to the public. And especially not to the family of a fallen soldier. But now the left - always eager to seize on the smallest bit of innuendo in their drive to undermine the war effort, the military and the Bush administration - is blowing this up into a conspiracy to murder Tillman who was allegedly going to become an anti-war hero (what basis there is for this, or how he’d do that from the middle of a battlefield in Afghanistan, I have no idea).

Because that’s what is convenient for their political agenda.

None of this is new...the deception was uncovered within months of Tillman's death. It's only in the news again because they are beginning to resolve the investigation and those responsible are being punished.

In reality, Tillman’s story is that of a tragic accident. He signed up for the military, and then was killed on the battlefield by an accident before he could fulfill his destiny. Sad, but hardly the fodder for murder plots involving Karl Rove.

Democrats really will throw anything at the wall to see if it sticks.

[George Gervin's Afro]

So, Democrat Wesley Clark thinks Pat Tillman was murdered because he was about to become an anti-war hero? Judge the lunacy for yourself, his interview starts at about 1:13 in:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbQVGcBmyu0

(can we please get YouTube embedding?)

He essentially says that if Tillman was killed deliberately the orders “came from the top” and manages to invoke the idea of a Rovian plot along the way. That Clark, as a former high-ranking member of our armed forces, is even entertaining such fantasies is a disgrace.

This conspiracy mongering comes at the same time of news that the Pentagon will be ending the careers of seven military officers (http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=3417047&page=1) for mishandling the investigation into Tillman’s death, and the news that military doctors who examined Tillman’s corpse were suspicious about the proximity of the bullet holes in his body. They were close together, indicating that Tillman was shot from close range.

This is undoubtedly the genesis of a story about the government murdering one of it’s own soldiers that will last us for at least a couple of decades. Much like the idea that 9/11 was a plot to foment war in the middle east and JFK was murdered by the CIA.

But personally, I subscribe to Occam’s Razor. The simplest explanation is usually the correct one. In the case of Tillman, he was killed by his own troops. At the time the war in Iraq was relatively new, and the military didn’t want the public getting disillusioned with a sad story about a celebrity like Tillman who signed up to fight for his country only to be killed tragically by his own troops. So they covered it up and try to claim he was killed by enemy fire. They also subsequently squashed any attempt at a criminal investigation for fear that it would generate sensational headlines and further undermine the war effort (which it would have).

Bad move, not just because they got caught but also because it’s not good to lie to the public. And especially not to the family of a fallen soldier. But now the left - always eager to seize on the smallest bit of innuendo in their drive to undermine the war effort, the military and the Bush administration - is blowing this up into a conspiracy to murder Tillman who was allegedly going to become an anti-war hero (what basis there is for this, or how he’d do that from the middle of a battlefield in Afghanistan, I have no idea).

Because that’s what is convenient for their political agenda.

None of this is new...the deception was uncovered within months of Tillman's death. It's only in the news again because they are beginning to resolve the investigation and those responsible are being punished.

In reality, Tillman’s story is that of a tragic accident. He signed up for the military, and then was killed on the battlefield by an accident before he could fulfill his destiny. Sad, but hardly the fodder for murder plots involving Karl Rove.

Democrats really will throw anything at the wall to see if it sticks.


So it's ok to lie to make sure that the war effort is not harmed..I guess the ends justify the means.. sort of like how we got into Iraq..

[Yonivore]

So it's ok to lie to make sure that the war effort is not harmed..I guess the ends justify the means.. sort of like how we got into Iraq..
I guess you missed this:


Bad move, not just because they got caught but also because it’s not good to lie to the public. And especially not to the family of a fallen soldier.

[UV Ray]

What is significant is that Pat Tillman was the poster child of American heroism, and they managed to fuck that up, too.

For Boutons and some others on this thread it seems Pat only became a hero when it was discovered he was killed by friendly fire under circumstances 'apparently' worthy of an agenda. Pat Tillman has always been and will always be a hero to me and no one can take that away... or 'fuck it up' as you posted.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

To clarify, the republicans were wrong for using his death to suit their agenda (though with people stupid enough to buy it, maybe its their brains and the parents who spawned them who are wrong), and the demos who are using this to bite into repubs are wrong as well.

Let the guy rest in peace.
This bickering and disrespect can be better directed towards someone worthless, like jerry fartwell, or someone like that.

[1369]

3 closely spaced bullet-holes in the forehead? Could a US rifle deliver 3 bullets in a tight pattern to the head, from 30 feet? Wouldn't they have to be delivered in extremely close succession?

See burst, three round. Standard equipment on an M-16A2.

[Yonivore]

See burst, three round. Standard equipment on an M-16A2.
C'mon, now your fucking up the conspiracy narrative.

[boutons_]

Any close grouping is possible if he was shot in his sleep or after another round already immobilized him.

[1369]

Anything close grouping is possible if he was shot in his sleep or after another round already immobilized him.

Careful, you could pull a tricep with that reach.

[Yonivore]

Careful, you could pull a tricep with that reach.
You mean you understood that drivel?

[UV Ray]

Anything close grouping is possible if he was shot in his sleep or after another round already immobilized him.

You should string for Pravda.

[boutons_]

The Army medical examiners suspect something very stinky. Trash them for reaching.

[judaspriestess]

http://www.opednews.com/articles/opedne_rob_kall_070727_did_bush_admin_order.htm

"The report also states that "No evidence at all of enemy fire was found at the scene - no one was hit by enemy fire, nor was any government equipment struck."

The article also reveals that "Army attorneys sent each other congratulatory e-mails for keeping criminal investigators at bay as the Army conducted an internal friendly-fire investigation that resulted in administrative, or non-criminal, punishments."

So there was no evidence whatsoever of friendly fire, but the ballistics data clearly indicated that the three head shots had been fired from just 10 yards away and then the Army tried to concoct a hoax friendly fire story and sent gloating back-slapping e mails congratulating each other on their success while preventing the doctors from exploring the possibility of murder. How can any sane and rational individual weigh this evidence and not come to the conclusion that Tillman was deliberately gunned down in cold blood?

The evidence points directly to it and the motivation is clear - Tillman abandoned a lucrative career in pro-football immediately after 9/11 because he felt a rampaging patriotic urge to defend his country, and became a poster child for the war on terror as a result. But when he discovered that the invasion of Iraq was based on a mountain of lies and deceit and had nothing to do with defending America, he became infuriated and was ready to return home to become an anti-war hero.

As far back as March 2003, immediately after the invasion, Tillman famously told his comrade Spc. Russell Baer, "You know, this war is so fucking illegal," and urged his entire platoon to vote against Bush in the 2004 election. Far from the gung-ho gruff stereotype attributed to him, Tillman was actually a fiercely intellectual man with the courage of his convictions firmly in place.Tillman had even begun to arrange meetings with anti-war icons like Noam Chomsky upon his return to America before his death cut short any aspirations of becoming a focal point for anti-war

see also
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/07/26/AR2007072602025.html

[AFBlue]

It's shit like this that makes military reports on Iraq in general as credible as dubya and dickhead and gonzo.

Don't paint the military as a bunch of coverup artists just because some fucking General decided he wanted to make a 4th star so he wanted this shit to disappear.

There are ambitious people (see Enron) who make alot of horrible decisions, but that shouldn't give you pause as to the validity of other reports about Iraq.

If anything, it's the politicians that spin the reports not the military officials.

[boutons_]

"some fucking General"

bullshit. ass-covering and career-salvaging, pension-protecting is the highest priority for many of the brass. A lot of the better ones who couldn't stomach the Iraq and Rummy bullshit retired, or were fired for speaking against the bullshit (Shinskeki).

Abu Graib was not only a low-level disaster totally detached from the chain of command. Nor was the bullshit and lies around Private Lynch.

There are plenty of wonderful people in the military, but it's bullshit that there is a only handful of rotten field-grade apples.

[UV Ray]

This is old news but seems relevant in the wake of a recent report
by the Washington Post of a differing account of Tillman's last moments. My question: Is the atheism card now being played against Tillman?

*A portion of the Washington Post follows this article:

__




Playing the Atheism Card Against Pat Tillman’s Family



http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/20060728_worm_dirt/

Posted on Jul 28, 2006

AP /Gene Lower

By Stan Goff

Editor’s note: The author of this essay, Stan Goff, is a retired veteran of the U.S. Army Special Forces. During an active-duty career that spanned 1970 to 1996, he served with the elite Delta Force and Rangers, and in Vietnam, Guatemala, Grenada, El Salvador, Colombia, Peru, Somalia and Haiti.

He is a veteran of the Jungle Operations Training Center in Panama and also taught military science at the United States Military Academy at West Point.

Goff is the author of the books “Hideous Dream—A Soldier’s Memoir of the U.S. Invasion of Haiti,” “Full Spectrum Disorder—The Military in the New American Century” and “Sex & War.”

In this article Goff writes on the events surrounding the fratricidal death of Army Ranger and former NFL player Pat Tillman, and the possible military coverup that ensued.

Goff argues that Tillman’s commanding officer, in a recent ESPN magazine interview, made a series of shockingly callous statements about the Tillman family’s search for the truth because the officer was trying to divert attention from the role he may have played in the alleged coverup.

Goff’s previously published articles on this subject can be found at the online publication From the Wilderness.

His research for those articles included a detailed review of more than 2,500 pages of official briefings and documents from three investigations, in addition to extensive interviews with Tillman family members and some of the soldiers in Tillman’s unit.

Editor’s note #2

Lieutenant Colonel Ralph Kauzlarich, was originally described as the Cross-Commander at Forward Operating Base Salerno on Khowst, Afghanistan. That was incorrect. The Cross Functional Team Commander ("Cross-Commander") under which Pat Tillman’s unit was working at the time of his death was a Major Hodney. Kauzlarich was one step above Major Hodney, as his Regimental Executive Officer. The Ranger Regiment in Afghanistan was under the operational control (OPCON) to a highly secretive joint command, which accounts for much of the difficulty in clarifying both the circumstances of Pat Tillman’s death and the subsequent actions taken at several levels of command to conceal and spin the circumstances surrounding his death.

Lt. Col. Ralph Kauzlarich has taken Christ into his heart, or so he says. Like my old colleague, Lt. Gen. William G. (“Jerry”) Boykin, he has also carried the organically entrapped messiah onto the heathen-infested battlegrounds of Southwest Asia. Kauzlarich is the subject of my exposition today, but Boykin is his context.

You all remember Jerry Boykin—the general who, as part of the Bush 2003 civil relations effort in Iraq, called Muslims idol worshippers.

Back in the Reagan days, Boykin and I were simultaneously assigned to the allegedly super-secret Delta Force. He was a major then, and he would organize prayer breakfasts for the unit, driving many of us out of the building to purchase sausage-biscuits. His evangelical lunacy was already under siege then. Special Operations is a motley fraternity, in which operators are as likely to worship Odin or an oak tree as they are to attend Sunday services.


Boykin’s recent rise is symptomatic of War Secretary Donald Rumsfeld’s fascination with Special Operations—in spite of its generally dismal record. Kauzlarich was on the same career fast track when he was the 75th Ranger Regiment’s executive officer* (see editor’s note #2 above) at Forward Operating Base Salerno, Khoust, Afghanistan, in 2004.

Bishop Boykin, shooting from the lip, asserted in 2003 that the U.S. military adventures in Afghanistan and Iraq involved “an Army of God” squaring off against Satan.

Beelzebub himself! Can’t say Jerry lacks ambition. Of course, the Satanists in this case were the very Muslims that the administration was trying to recruit as political puppets in the oil patch.

For this subtle bit of international relations, Boykin was punished by promotion to the position of deputy undersecretary of defense for… intelligence. Yes, the pun is nearly unbearable.

And so Boykin ascended. As the Haitian proverb says: The higher the monkey climbs, the more you see his ass.

Lt. Col. Ralph Kauzlarich, on the other hand, is not exactly being placed center-stage at the Pentagon. More than any other single person below the rank of general, he is probably most responsible for the Pentagon’s embarrassment when NFL-player-turned-Army-Ranger Pat Tillman was killed on April 22, 2004, by his own comrades.

Kauzlarich has been energetically avoiding responsibility for the fratricidal incident ever since.

“When you die,” [Tillman’s commanding officer] Kauzlarich said, “I mean, there is supposedly a better life, right? Well, if you are an atheist and you don’t believe in anything, if you die, what is there to go to? Nothing. You are worm dirt.”

It appears from reading the documents in the incident that he and others in the military may have violated multiple laws—including obstruction of justice, evidence tampering and conspiracy.

Kauzlarich may have conspired with others to award an inappropriate Silver Star, complete with a phony account of the events surrounding Tillman’s death. Members of Tillman’s chain of command attended Tillman’s memorial service without breathing a word to the family about what really happened, and it appears, again from the documents, that Kauzlarich deep-sixed the original investigation, which he then had redone under his personal supervision.

The Army’s criminal investigation division and the Pentagon’s Inspector General are currently investigating Tillman’s death and the events that ensued.

Kauzlarich now looks to Nov. 7, 2006, with a gnawing disquiet. Only a thin congressional majority that stand between a nemesis like Rep. John Conyers (D-Mich.) and the chairmanship of the House Judiciary Committee. Subpoena authority might transform a mere gavel into a mighty political weapon.

But in the meantime, a recent ESPN.com exposé by Mike Fish aired an interview with Kauzlarich, who was the “cross commander” of the Rangers in Khoust, Afghanistan, in April 2004. Kauzlarich, in a stunning display of Christian empathy, blamed the family for continuing to ask questions about the circumstances of Pat’s death, and suggested that the reason they’d found no closure was that infidels such as themselves (the Tillmans did not belong to a church), when they die, are only “worm dirt.”

A choice of words worthy of Bishop Boykin, who is surely beaming with pride at this officer’s devout diction.

“His parents continue to ask for it to be looked at,” Kauzlarich told Fish petulantly. “And that is really their prerogative. And if they have the right backing, the right powerful people in our government to continue to let it happen, then that is the case.”

Playing the victim. A broadly effective tactic in the case of international military aggression, domestic battery (she made me do it) and politically motivated coverups.

In fact, powerful people in government have had to be dragged kicking and screaming into the case by the dogged persistence of Pat’s family. So far the government’s efforts have been to assign aides to do enough to get the family off its back, and submit queries to the military that are answered with the same contradictions and equivocations that provoked the family’s suspicion in the first place.

“But there [have] been numerous unfortunate cases of fratricide,” Kauzlarich told ESPN, “and the parents have basically said, ‘OK, it was an unfortunate accident.’ And they let it go. So this is—I don’t know, these people have a hard time letting it go. It may be because of their religious beliefs.”

Nothing to do with the fact that the Department of Defense lied to them until the impending redeployment of in-the-know Ranger batallion back to the U.S. made the revelation of fratricide inevitable … oh no.

The office of Defense Department public relations official Lawrence Di Rita should have purchased high-quality shredders for all commanders. The documents pertaining to the first three of six investigations contain generous and often gratuitous redactions. They were given to the Tillman family, and through them to CNN, to ESPN—oh yes, and to me. They show that it was the impending redeployment of the 2nd Ranger Battalion, Pat Tillman’s unit, in which the real story of his death was general knowledge, that compelled the Department of Defense to come clean, sort of.

“When you die,” the Reverend Kauzlarich explained to ESPN’s Fish, “I mean, there is supposedly a better life, right? Well, if you are an atheist and you don’t believe in anything, if you die, what is there to go to? Nothing. You are worm dirt.”

A theological term perhaps.

Next page: “Kauzlarich, like Boykin and all their ilk, has the spiritual depth of his own skin, which is what he is trying to save … whether in an exchange of faith for immortality or in deflecting the sorry truth onto a bereaved and angered family with cheap revival-tent accusations of ‘atheism.’ ”

Page 2)

I don’t doubt for a minute that Kauzlarich’s version of spirituality is a kind of quid pro quo—a simple exchange of belief for immortality would strike the hardest of bargainers as a pretty good deal. It even trumps the dissonance of the Warrior Jesus, the Prince of Peace mounted on a Humvee, perhaps manning the .50-cal, in Mazar-i-Sharif or Fallujah.

If you can sustain that contradiction, it is not particularly remarkable to believe you are a Lamb of God at the same time you deploy religious belief as a disingenuous dodge in defense of your career.

“So for their son to die for nothing, and now he is no more,” continued Kauzlarich, “that is pretty hard to get your head around that. So I don’t know how an atheist thinks…. You know what? I don’t think anything will make them happy, quite honestly. I don’t know. Maybe they want to see somebody’s head on a platter. But will that really make them happy? No, because they can’t bring their son back.”

So we get to it at last. Kauzlarich imagines himself as John the Baptist, and Mary Tillman as Salome. Poor, poor man. Wretched, wretched woman.

I imagine a fish decal on Kauzlarich’s car, one that has a double significance: Jesus, of course, cloning fish for the starving masses, but also a red herring.

Kauzlarich is in a state of dread—not the existential variety, since he has already cut the deal to survive death. His dread is more immediate and secular.

A Ranger captain was assigned to investigate the death of Pat Tillman—Richard Scott, then commander of Headquarters Company, 2/75 Rangers. Scott carried out his task with integrity, and the Article 15-6 investigation was completed in two weeks. That investigation determined two things: (1) The fellow Rangers who shot Tillman (and an Afghan that the military has never credited with a human being’s name) violated their own rules of engagement and were possibly criminally negligent and (2) that the order that led to splitting the platoon—one vigorously and rightly opposed by the platoon leader on the ground—was responsible for setting up the communications breakdown that resulted in the incident.

It is not legal in the military to dispose of investigations or to compel or allow witnesses to change statements, and then make the original statements disappear, but that is precisely what happened in the case of Pat Tillman. When Kauzlarich took over the investigation from Scott, Kauzlarich’s role in the alleged coverup disappeared and criminal charge recommendations were transformed into wrist-slapping nonjudicial punishments.

Even before the first investigation was complete—nay, even before Tillman’s unit returned from the field to conduct an “after-action review” to determine what happened—everyone in Tillman’s chain of command, including Kauzlarich [http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/062306_tillman_files4.shtml], appears to have conspired to draft a recommendation for a Silver Star award as part of the intentional development of a fictional account to cover up the fratricide.

This was in April-May 2004. And for those who don’t remember, these months were a catastrophic cascade of setbacks, bad news and rank scandal, including the dual rebellion in Iraq and the first public release of the Abu Ghraib photos. The death by fratricide of a famous young man (who was resisting the Department of Defense efforts to turn him into a jingo icon) ran headlong into the DoD public affairs narrative of precision and professionalism (in an elite unit). That was very bad news.

But with every stick, there is a carrot.

If this story could be covered up, for just a while, it had spin capacity. Pat could be turned into a martyr-jingo icon. An account could be constructed that would map directly onto the television-stunned social imagination of the American public. A tale worthy of the arrested development of a nation that believes in the fantasies of masculine adolescence.

And that is precisely what they did, Kauzlarich included. They drafted a Silver Star and a docudrama lie about an intense encounter with a determined enemy in which the obedient patriot sets an example worthy of a recruiting poster. A Tom Clancy joint. The real Pat Tillman was not only of no use, he was a net negative. Real people get in the way.

They never counted on his brother Kevin discovering that there was an initial investigation that vanished. They never counted on a mother and father who were strong enough to demand the truth about what had happened, and determined enough to rescue the real person that was Pat Tillman from the spin machine into which the Pentagon tried to feed his body.

Pat himself, after seeing the Iraq war firsthand and declaring it to be “so fucking illegal,” quipped to his fellow soldiers that the military seemed to be so inept that it couldn’t even construct a credible lie. How prescient was that?

Kauzlarich, like Boykin and all their ilk, has the spiritual depth of his own skin, which is what he is trying to save … whether in an exchange of faith for immortality or in deflecting the sorry truth onto a bereaved and angered family with cheap revival-tent accusations of “atheism.”

Mary Tillman, Pat’s mother, showed me a page from Pat’s journal when he was 16 years old. It was Pat’s reflection on why he had decided, once and for all, that he didn’t need organized religion. The entry was motivated by Pat’s grief at the death of an old family cat. Pat wasn’t comfortable with the idea that one could love another creature that was being excluded from the bargain in the afterlife. He and his brothers grew up between a river and the mountains, where they roamed countless miles and delighted in the ceaseless interplay of geography, climate, flora and fauna. In his journal entry, Pat speculated about this singular universality, and made up his mind that one didn’t need some anti-material monarchy buzzing with angels to accommodate himself to mortality.

Pat never felt separate enough from the world to despise the worms. And so Kauzlarich’s expression of fear and loathing for the world would have amused Pat.

Pat’s ashes are adrift from where they were scattered along the Pacific Ocean, mixing back into the elements with which he was so at home; while Ralph Kauzlarich and the Pentagon fret about a five-foot-two-inch mother who refuses to make them an offering of her fear. Surely Pat Tillman is laughing.


*Differing account as reported by
By MARTHA MENDOZA
The Associated Press
Friday, July 27, 2007; 1:48 AM
Associated Press reporters Scott Lindlaw and Lolita C. Baldor:

It has been widely reported by the AP and others that Spc. Bryan O'Neal, who was at Tillman's side as he was killed, told investigators that Tillman was waving his arms shouting "Cease fire, friendlies, I am Pat (expletive) Tillman, damn it!" again and again.

But the latest documents give a different account from a chaplain who debriefed the entire unit days after Tillman was killed.

The chaplain said that O'Neal told him he was hugging the ground at Tillman's side, "crying out to God, help us. And Tillman says to him, `Would you shut your (expletive) mouth? God's not going to help you; you need to do something for yourself, you sniveling ..."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/07/26/AR2007072602025_2.html

[Nbadan]

To clarify, the republicans were wrong for using his death to suit their agenda (though with people stupid enough to buy it, maybe its their brains and the parents who spawned them who are wrong), and the demos who are using this to bite into repubs are wrong as well.

Let the guy rest in peace.
This bickering and disrespect can be better directed towards someone worthless, like jerry fartwell, or someone like that.

You don't think Sean Insannity would have flown in Tillman in for one of his freedom concerts? Tillman's thoughts on this war are well documented in his own writing and from first-hand sources - his mom....and they don't fall on the side of the chicken-hawks....

[Wild Cobra]

You know, I hadn't really read any of this thread and I think that what happened to Tillman was a tragedy, and the lies in the aftermath didn't help anyone.

However, Tillman was a hero. He had it all, and choose to serve this nation for a dramatic pay cut.

That is a hero!

May he rest in peace.

[Wild Cobra]

You know, since other threads were slow, I started reading this one. I cannot believe the allegations being thrown in the air. The examiner says it appears the shots were close range, but I see no mention of powder burns.

What position was he in? If he had his back against a wall, or sitting in a vehicle, he could have been shot three times without the three round burst. Even if he was standing, or in some other position, if the shot doesn't hit specific nerve clusters, a person may stay in the same position for a few seconds. I'd be able to make such a shot succession at 250 to 300 yards, in probably a second, in semi-automatic mode. I was a fixed station technician. Those combat troops I'm sure shoot better than I do.

Now I never used an A2 version, so I don't know how tight the three round burst pattern is. My understanding is it is very tight!

Again, the Bush haters are taking the flimsiest of evidence and making accusations.

Fucking evil assholes.

I want some real evidence.

[boutons_]

"close range, but I see no mention of powder burns."

RIF, even with your bias. The distance mentioned was 10 yards.

This has nothing to with dubya. Except that the fucking bastard sent the Army into the wrong fucking country.

The real evidence is from the person who pulled the trigger, and/or any people who were right there. We haven't heard from them, yet. I suspect the Army will continue to make damn sure we don't.

[Yonivore]

"close range, but I see no mention of powder burns."

RIF, even with your bias. The distance mentioned was 10 yards.

This has nothing to with dubya. Except that the fucking bastard sent the Army into the wrong fucking country.

The real evidence is from the person who pulled the trigger, and/or any people who were right there. We haven't heard from them, yet. I suspect the Army will continue to make damn sure we don't.
Actually, the guy that was standing next to him when he died has spoken out. I'll see if I can find the reference.

He disputes the murder conspiracy.

[Wild Cobra]

Actually, the guy that was standing next to him when he died has spoken out. I'll see if I can find the reference.

He disputes the murder conspiracy.
What, boutons misquotes the examiner... No surprise, no wonder he is still on IGNORE.

Silly idiot. The examiner made a statement to the effect that it looked like 10 yards. No certainty, and was an assumption. The 223 round the M16A2 uses (5.56 mm) maintains a very fast trajectory for some distance. The only way to claim a short distance of 10 yards vs. say 100 yards would be powder burn patterns. At 10 yards, you would have some, at 100 yards you would have none. It’s muzzle velocity is so fast at 3050 feet per second, the round disintegrates if you fire it into water. It has a maximum effective range of 600 yards.

[boutons_]

I misquoted nobody, the examiner mentioned 10 yards.

powder travels 30+ feet and arrives in exactly the same place at a perhaps fallen/displaced target? GMAFB.

I think the only way to resolve it is to hear from the shooter, who appears to be the only one shooting since no other evidence of shooting damage was found.

[clambake]

If Tillman were still alive, can you imagine what he'd say to the forum conservatives?

That would be a show worth watching.

[judaspriestess]

What, boutons misquotes the examiner... No surprise, no wonder he is still on IGNORE.

Silly idiot. The examiner made a statement to the effect that it looked like 10 yards. No certainty, and was an assumption. The 223 round the M16A2 uses (5.56 mm) maintains a very fast trajectory for some distance. The only way to claim a short distance of 10 yards vs. say 100 yards would be powder burn patterns. At 10 yards, you would have some, at 100 yards you would have none. It’s muzzle velocity is so fast at 3050 feet per second, the round disintegrates if you fire it into water. It has a maximum effective range of 600 yards.

so what you are saying is, you know EXACTLY what happened based on your experience but where not at this scene as opposed to a trained medical examiner whose job is to find the exact cause of death?

[UV Ray]

GI disputes report on Tillman
Says Tillman didn't snap at him, shooters were a ways off

Martha Mendoza
Associated Press
Jul. 29, 2007 12:00 AM
SAN FRANCISCO - As bullets flew above their heads, the young soldier at Pat Tillman's side started praying.

"I thought I was praying to myself, but I guess he heard me," Sgt. Bryan O'Neal recalled in an interview Saturday with the Associated Press. "He said something like, 'Hey, O'Neal, why are you praying? God can't help us now.' "

Tillman's intent, O'Neal said, was to "more or less put my mind straight about what was going on at the moment."




"He said, 'I've got an idea to help get us out of this,' " said O'Neal, who was an 18-year-old Army Ranger in Tillman's unit when the former NFL player was killed by friendly fire in April 2004 in Afghanistan.

O'Neal said Tillman threw a smoke grenade to identify themselves to fellow soldiers who were firing at them.

Tillman was waving his arms shouting "Cease fire, friendlies, I am Pat (expletive) Tillman, damn it!" again and again when he was killed, O'Neal said.

A chaplain who debriefed the entire unit days after Tillman's death later described this exchange to investigators conducting a criminal probe of the incident.

But O'Neal strongly disputes portions of the chaplain's testimony, outlined in some 2,300 pages of transcripts released to the AP last week by the Defense Department in response to a Freedom of Information Act request.

The chaplain told investigators O'Neal said Tillman was harsh in his last moments, snapping, "Would you shut your (expletive) mouth? God's not going to help you; you need to do something for yourself, you sniveling...."

"He never would have called me 'sniveling,' " O'Neal said. "I don't remember ever speaking to this chaplain, and I find this characterization of Pat really upsetting. He never once degraded me. He's the only person I ever worked for who didn't degrade anyone. He wasn't that sort of person."

The chaplain's name is blacked out in the documents.

Tillman gave up a multimillion-dollar football contract with the Arizona Cardinals to enlist with his brother in the Army after the 2001 terrorist attacks.

The military initially told the public and the Tillman family that he had been killed by enemy fire.

Only weeks later, when the truth was about to be published, did the Pentagon acknowledge that he was gunned down by fellow Rangers.

The Pentagon conducted a criminal investigation and ruled that Tillman's death was a friendly-fire accident.

More questions, hearings
Congress is preparing for another hearing this week, while the Pentagon is separately preparing a new round of punishments.

Soldiers and commanders who worked with Tillman have repeatedly testified that he was respected, admired and well-liked.

In the same testimony, medical examiners said the bullet holes in Tillman's head were so close together that it appeared the Army Ranger was cut down by an M-16 fired a mere 10 yards or so away.

O'Neal said the shooters were "close, close enough for me to recognize them, but they sure weren't 10 yards away. They were further than that. I've thought about this plenty of times. They wouldn't have been more than 50 yards away."

Another key issue raised in the transcripts involved never-before-mentioned snipers who were apparently there when the firing broke out, got out of their vehicle and walked alongside the convoy, cutting up the canyon firing.

O'Neal said Saturday that he knew there were snipers in the convoy that fired at them but that he can't remember their names.

Were they fired at by the snipers? "Not that I know of," O'Neal told the AP.

His recollections of the snipers reflected other testimony in the transcripts, including answers given by Capt. Richard Scott, who conducted the first, immediate investigation:

Question: Are you aware whether or not any U.S. forces snipers were at the scene?

Answer: Scott: They were in serial two.

Q: And, and do you know whose GMV (ground mobility vehicle) they were traveling in?

A: Scott: I don't think they were in a GMV. I think they were in a cargo Humvee.

Q: OK. Do you know if the snipers fired any rounds during this incident involving CPL Tillman?

A: Scott: I do not, no.

[clambake]

What, boutons misquotes the examiner... No surprise, no wonder he is still on IGNORE.

Silly idiot. The examiner made a statement to the effect that it looked like 10 yards. No certainty, and was an assumption. The 223 round the M16A2 uses (5.56 mm) maintains a very fast trajectory for some distance. The only way to claim a short distance of 10 yards vs. say 100 yards would be powder burn patterns. At 10 yards, you would have some, at 100 yards you would have none. It’s muzzle velocity is so fast at 3050 feet per second, the round disintegrates if you fire it into water. It has a maximum effective range of 600 yards.
Who gives a shit about powder. If you'll attempt to recall (as difficult as that will be) they burned all his shit before any real investigation. It's not a big deal. They've screwed the pooch on everything else.

[Wild Cobra]

so what you are saying is, you know EXACTLY what happened based on your experience but where not at this scene as opposed to a trained medical examiner whose job is to find the exact cause of death?
How in the hell do you derive that? You are misinterpreting what is said, just like people are misinterpreting what the examiner said.

Anyone on this forum pass basic English?

[Nbadan]

The only allegations I see being thrown around are allegations of an even bigger cover-up than the original cover-up....but continue painting everyone in as broad strokes as possible....

[boutons_]

The entire problem arose, and persists, because THE ARMY LIED about Tilman and Lynch.

Once your lies violate peoples' trust, Humpty Dumpty is broken.

We saw the Army lie and misrepresent repeatedly during the VN war.

"The First Casualty of War is The Truth"

[1369]

Wait a minute, a chaplain debriefed the unit?

Counseled the unit after the incident, maybe. And if he counseled them, why is he talking about a confidential discussion?

Debriefed the unit? I don't see that happening. What would a chaplain have to do with operations?

[Nbadan]

The Army Ranger who was alongside Pat Tillman when he was shot in Afghanistan told ESPN.com Friday that he remains convinced that the former NFL player was accidentally killed by friendly fire, rather than a target of a malicious act.

Sgt. Bryan O'Neal disputed Army doctors who, according to documents obtained by The Associated Press, voiced suspicions shortly after the 2004 incident about the close proximity of the three bullet holes in Tillman's forehead and tried, initially without success, to get authorities to investigate whether the former NFL player's death amounted to a crime.

--snip--

"No, there is no way the guy was 10 yards away. That is just completely unlikely," O'Neal told ESPN.com. "If he was there initially, like the way the conspiracy theorists work that he was there to kill Pat, why wouldn't he have killed me? That doesn't work so well. "

"There is no way that was the case ," O'Neal said. "You'd be able to make out their face. You'd know exactly who was shooting. Yeah, there is no possible way they were just 10 yards away."

ESPN (http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/news/story?id=2951521)

[Nbadan]

Specialist Bryan O'Neal on Pat Tillman's death (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhwInUN8UY0)

3 rounds in less than 6 inches at 30+meters is damn excellent shooting, near superhuman.

[Wild Cobra]

Specialist Bryan O'Neal on Pat Tillman's death (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhwInUN8UY0)

3 rounds in less than 6 inches at 30+meters is damn excellent shooting, near superhuman.
What? At 30 meters, they can be placed within a dime if your good!

Where do you get your bullshit information from? Do you make it up as you go?

[PixelPusher]

^3 single shot rounds, or a 3 round burst? (I'm not trying to be a dick here, I'm asking you because you've actually shot an M4 before)

[Wild Cobra]

^3 single shot rounds, or a 3 round burst? (I'm not trying to be a dick here, I'm asking you because you've actually shot an M4 before)
I don't think anyone knows. As a soldier, I was trained to use semi-automatic mode unless you are against a large group of soldiers. My guess is they were operating thn semi-automatic rather than burst. I never heard anyone there say one way or another. A good shooter can shoot three shots rather rapidly. Squeeze, adjust aim, squeeze, adjust aim, squeeze... in one breath, in about the span of a second.

I never did target practice in auto mode. I would assume that a three round burst pattern is within six inches at up to 100 yards if you know you to hold it right while the rifle kicks. However, that is just an assumption.

[Yonivore]

Where do you get your bullshit information from? Do you make it up as you go?
That's been long suspected.

[Nbadan]

We're not talking about a set target here, a head-wound from that distance, with that caliber, would recoil the head...

[Yonivore]

We're not talking about a set target here, a head-wound from that distance, with that caliber, would reconcile the head...
Reconcile?

[Nbadan]

I meant recoil...

[Yonivore]

I meant recoil...
That would depend on whether or not the head had a place to go. If, for instance, Tillman was taking cover and had his head against an object, (for instance, bracing himself against a rock or vehicle or something) a three shot burst, from a steady gun, could conceivably strike him before his head slumped.

I think we need more facts.

[Nbadan]

....any grassy knolls?

[Nbadan]

Don't look for Rummy to be at the Tillman inquiry today....


Former Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld appears to have refused to testify at a hearing scheduled for Wednesday on the friendly fire death of Army Specialist Patrick Tillman, RAW STORY has learned.

Tuesday afternoon, the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform released a witness list for the Tillman hearing. Rumsfeld, who was invited to testify by Rep. Henry Waxman (D-CA) on July 16, was not present.

The witnesses scheduled to testify are:

* Gen. John P. Abizaid (Retired), Former Commander, U.S. Central Command
* Gen. Richard B. Myers (Retired), Former Chair, Joint Chiefs of Staff
* Gen. Bryan Douglas Brown (Retired), Former Commander, U.S. Special Operations Command
* Lt. Gen. Philip R. Kensinger, Jr. (Retired), Former Commander, U.S. Special Operations Command

Rawstory (http://rawstory.com/news/2007/Rumsfeld_apparently_refuses_to_testify_at_0731.htm l)

[Wild Cobra]

I think we need more facts.
Agreed. I wonder what the facts are. I would wonder how many soldiers were shooting Tillman's direction and how many were with Tillman. Ballistics would probably be impossible, the round would be too destroyed for proper ballistics. Before someone tells me otherwise, remember, a 223 round is far different than a 38, 44, 9mm, etc. It travels at such a greater velocity, they fall apart on impact. A 38, 44, 9mm, etc. stay in one piece.

How likely is this?

It is said that Tillman tried to get the 'friendlies' to stop firing. Wasn't it said he stood up and waved his arms? If he is the only target, I could see the possibility of several shooters firing at nearly the same time, with three striking!

Has that been ruled out? It may not be the most probable scenario, but as long as it is possible, hearing the idea someone executed him disgusts me.

A 223 has a minimum of 1260 foot pounds of energy, and maintains about 1000 ft. lbs. of energy after 100 yards. This of course depends on the particular round used. When you hear of ballistics on TV shows, they are normally portraying lower velocity rifles, or pistols.

To my knowledge, the nominal 223 round used in the M16 series rifle is a 62 grain round, full metal jacket. For comparisons, I’ll use the following link:

Ammunition and Ballistics (http://www.federalcartridge.com/ballistics/Ammo_Search.aspx)

Load AE223N is a 62 grain full metal jacket round for the M16 series. It has a muzzle velocity of 3020 ft/sec. and energy of 1255 ft. lbs. This decreases to 2713 ft./sec. and 1013 ft. lbs. at 100 yards.

Load C44SA fits the 44. Being a larger diameter and heavy round at 200 grains, it has a muzzle velocity of 870 ft./sec. and a force of 336 ft. lbs. Of the pistol rounds I looked up, the 357 has the best energy. The muzzle velocity of load C357B is 1440 ft./sec. with an energy of 575 ft. lbs. These rounds maintain their shape well enough for ballistics tests, where the M16 rounds are useless after the hit a target for definitive ballistics. All the rifles I looked up had lower values also except the 22-250. Funny think however, as it crosses past 400 yards, the 223 becomes the better round. That doesn’t make sense at first glance. It must have something to do with the twist ratio and shape. The one I compared was a 60 grain. The other rifle rounds I compared were 30-30, 308, and 30-06. Being heavier rounds, with the powder to push them, they ranged from 2390 to 2830 ft./sec. and energies of 1902 to 2934 ft. lbs. I don’t know for sure, but I think the 30 caliper round and shape with the slightly lower velocity keeps it from deforming like the 223 round does. The 223 round is 45 mm long and 5.56 mm in diameter The other rounds are about 50% wider and only a few mm longer.

[xrayzebra]

I am still trying to figure out how much more
time and manpower is going to the wasted in
this exercise. It is admitted that he was killed
by his own troops. Now someone, wants
someone to pay a price for that. Does
anyone really think they are going to find
out who fired the fatal shot(s). I doubt
any two people there can give the same
story.

[Wild Cobra]

I am still trying to figure out how much more
time and manpower is going to the wasted in
this exercise. It is admitted that he was killed
by his own troops. Now someone, wants
someone to pay a price for that. Does
anyone really think they are going to find
out who fired the fatal shot(s). I doubt
any two people there can give the same
story.
Actually, I think the real investigation is complete. However, the identity of the shooter(s) is likely concealed to protect them from a vigilante. Records like this are sealed for a good reasons. I believe it won't be until this is past history that we know the full truth.

[boutons_]

"Now someone, wants someone to pay a price for that"

no.

shit happens in battle.

coverups don't happen in battle, it's the coverup that needs punishing. The brass will choose a sacrificial goat, lower the grade, the better, and protect themelves, as always.

[Wild Cobra]

"Now someone, wants someone to pay a price for that"

no.
Well, someone does, or else there wouldn't be all this controversy on what appears to be a tragic friendly fire incident. There is no evidence of an intentional killing, yet someone tries to make it such.


shit happens in battle.

coverups don't happen in battle, it's the coverup that needs punishing. The brass will choose a sacrificial goat, lower the grade, the better, and protect themelves, as always.
Yes, and if you haven't noticed, the people propagating the lies are being punished.

A sacrificial lamb? No. The proper people will be held accountable. Have you ever seen military service up front and personal? I have!

[boutons_]

"The proper people will be held accountable"

Sure, like Abu Ghraib.

[Wild Cobra]

"The proper people will be held accountable"

Sure, like Abu Ghraib.
The people in Abu Ghraib were held accountable. There was a general demoted to colonel. Pundits like to use her words that she did not know what the contractors were doing, but she was responsible for the actions of her soldiers. Some soldiers are also now doing prison time. You Bush Haters are unhappy because the problems were all found at the command level of the prison, and no higher. Some quotes from some links:

Abu Ghraib torture and prisoner abuse (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Ghraib_torture_and_prisoner_abuse):


As revealed by the 2004 Taguba Report a criminal investigation by the US Army Criminal Investigation Command had already been underway since May 2003 where four Soldiers from the 320th MP Battalion had been formally charged under the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ) with detainee abuse. In April 2004 reports of the abuse, as well as graphic pictures showing American military personnel in the act of abusing prisoners, came to public attention, when a 60 Minutes II news report (April 28) and an article by Seymour M. Hersh in The New Yorker magazine (posted online on April 30 and published days later in the May 10 issue) reported the story. Janis Karpinski, the commander of Abu Ghraib demoted for her lack of oversight regarding the abuse, estimated later that 90% of detainees in the prison were innocent.

The U.S. Department of Defense removed seventeen soldiers and officers from duty, and seven soldiers were charged with dereliction of duty, maltreatment, aggravated assault, and battery. Between May 2004 and September 2005, seven soldiers were convicted in courts martial, sentenced to federal prison time, and dishonorably discharged from service. Two soldiers, Specialist Charles Graner, and his former fiancée, Specialist Lynndie England, were sentenced to ten years and three years in prison, respectively, in trials ending on January 14 2005 and September 26, 2005. The commanding officer at the prison, Brigadier General Janis Karpinski, was demoted to the rank of colonel on May 5, 2005. Colonel Karpinski has denied knowledge of the abuses claiming that the interrogations were authorized by her superiors and performed by subcontractors, and that she was not even allowed entry into the interrogation rooms.
Taguba Report (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taguba_Report):


Lieutenant General Ricardo Sanchez, the senior officer in Iraq, appointed Major General Antonio Taguba to open an Article 15-6 inquiry into the conduct of the 800th Military Police Brigade.

According to the report the inquiry was initiated because:

"LTG Sanchez requested an investigation of detention and internment operations by the Brigade from 1 November 2003 to present. LTG Sanchez cited recent reports of detainee abuse, escapes from confinement facilities, and accountability lapses, which indicated systemic problems within the brigade and suggested a lack of clear standards, proficiency, and leadership."
Taguba faults leadership for Iraqi detainee abuse Lessons-learned go to MP schoolhouse (http://www.au.af.mil/au/awc/awcgate/army/052704_taguba.htm):


Taguba was sent to Iraq at the request of Lt. Gen. Ricardo Sanchez, Joint Task Force 7 commanding general, for an impartial look from someone outside JTF-7 to see if any systemic issues contributed to circumstances that lead to the alleged abuse and to several detainee escapes at the Abu Ghraib prison. The general and his investigation team looked at three other large detainee facilities run by 800th MP Brigade units in addition to Abu Ghraib. Taguba’s report praised two 800th MP units at other facilities for the way they executed the detainee security function.

“Lack of discipline, no training whatsoever and a lack of leadership presence,” Taguba replied to one senator’s question for a short answer as to why the alleged abuse happened at Abu Ghraib.

In later testimony, Taguba expanded on his short answer.

To support the lack of discipline comment, the general told the committee there was no single standard uniform for either the MP guards or the military intelligence specialists who were responsible for interrogating the detainees – they wore whatever they felt like wearing.

Further, no formal guard mounts were held at Abu Ghraib where those guards going off duty brief important information to those going on duty, Taguba said. Guard mounts are now being held by the new MP unit that took over the Abu Ghraib mission. Each guard shift change now includes a briefing on the applicable Geneva Convention sections that pertain to detainees.

As far as training for operating a prison or detainee facility – a valid mission for an MP unit – Taguba said several guards questioned during the investigation said they had received no detainee security and resettlement training since arriving at their mobilization station prior to deployment. A search of training records from the 320th confirmed that no such training had occurred in battalion during the past year.

Taguba faulted the 800th MP Brigade commander, Brig. Gen. Janis Karpinski, for lack of any substantive command presence at Abu Ghraib. He said that Karpinski attempted to mislead him during his investigation about the number of visits she made to the prison. A check with her aide and her calendar confirmed that Karpinski’s visits were less than she said.

In response to a question about interrogation techniques, Taguba said that Army doctrine has more than 50 approved techniques, some harsher than others, to include sleep depravation, a controlled diet, isolation for more than 30 days and having a guard dog present in the interrogation booth. He said the harsher techniques require general officer or higher approval for use, and that when a dog is used, it must be muzzled and under the control of a dog handler.

There was some disagreement between Taguba and Dr. Stephen Cambone, undersecretary of defense for intelligence who also testified, about exactly who the 320th MP Battalion worked for during the timeframe of the alleged abuse. A JTF-7 fragment order placed Abu Ghraib under the operational control of an MI brigade last October. Cambone said that meant the MI brigade was responsible for the infrastructure of the facility, not for telling the MP guards what to do. Taguba said operational control meant that the MPs’ priority was to work for the MI brigade.

The general said his investigation uncovered “no order whatsoever, written or otherwise” that directed the guards or MI interrogators to use inhumane measures in obtaining intelligence from the detainees.

However, Taguba said that he did “believe there was collaboration at the lower levels between interrogators and guards” that led to behavior outside the bounds of international laws and the Geneva Convention.

A separate investigation, called a Procedure 15, is underway to determine what, if any, responsibilities the interrogators had in ordering, encouraging or turning a blind eye to the alleged abuse.

Other investigations still ongoing include the criminal investigation, an inspector general look at all detainee facilities and applicable detainee security doctrine and training, and an Office of the Chief of the Army Reserve check into the pre-mobilization and mobilization detainee security training of Reserve units.

Through May 11, the criminal investigation has determined there was enough evidence against six 320th MP Battalion Soldiers to warrant criminal charges be preferred against them. The cases of two of those Soldiers have been reviewed by a general officer and referred for courts-martial.