KG to Boston a done deal?

[Darkwaters]

NBA Market Watch: KG to Boston

by: Eric Weiss
July 30, 2007
Multiple sources close to the situation told DraftExpress Sunday that the Boston Celtics and Minnesota Timberwolves have come to terms on a trade exchanging Kevin Garnett for a package including Al Jefferson, Gerald Green, Sebastian Telfair, and Theo Ratliff. The exact details of the trade aren’t known at this point, but it is believed that the deal will be completed shortly with similar parameters.

This deal has been rumored for most of the summer, but according to sources with direct knowledge of the situation, the main hold up had been the negotiation of a contract extension for Garnett. According to this source, Garnett’s camp is asking for a 5 year extension worth 125 million dollars. Whether or not the two parties have altered the initial proposal or agreed to it is not known, but apparently some accord has been reached. Garnett has an opt-clause in his contract for next season that he has essentially been using as leverage to get traded and secure his financial future with the team that acquires his services.

It had been widely assumed that the initial deal between the clubs had fallen through when Garnett’s agent publicized that his client was not interested in going to Boston. But circumstances seem to have progressed since that stage, to the point where one prominent player on the Celtics responded to inquiry by stating the team was “winning the Eastern Conference” next season, after having learned of Garnett’s imminent arrival.

This move signifies a major power shift in the Eastern Conference. Garnett joins veterans Paul Pierce and Ray Allen to form arguably the best trio in the NBA. The team now has three potential Hall of Fame players in their prime to contend in a conference that is wide open. Each player is over 30 years of age, but should remain effective for the life of their deals.

Executive Director of Basketball Operations chief Danny Ainge has mortgaged a sizable portion of the team’s long-term future to secure a title contending team however. Jefferson was recently selected by USA Basketball as one of the rising stars in the league and is only 22 years of age. The team will have to rely on their faith in the All Star veterans’ abilities to maintain a high level of performance deep into their 30’s. If KG, Pierce, and Allen can duplicate the career longevity of Karl Malone, Scottie Pippen, and Reggie Miller for example, the Celtics will have a larger window to work with.

Ainge has been highly scrutinized for his apparent lack of organizational direction these past few years, but his patience looks to have paid off. His commitment to acquiring young assets and parlaying them into more established stars has come to fruition. The team is scheduled to hold training camp overseas this season, so the timing was flawless for a move that is sure to re-invigorate the sizable international fan base. The team is sure to enjoy a sizable increase in national media attention as well. The team didn’t have a single network game scheduled last season. That should change this year.

http://www.draftexpress.com/blogs.php?blogid=8

Take it for what it's worth...

[Beno Udrih]

Damn, KG, Pierce, and Allen. In the East?

[trueD]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2954127

Updated: July 30, 2007, 7:27 AM ET


Multiple sources told ESPN.com on Sunday night that former teammates Kevin McHale and Danny Ainge have revived discussions of a deal that would end Garnett's 12-season association with Minnesota by sending him to Ainge's Celtics, with the Wolves getting back two of the assets McHale coveted most last month: Al Jefferson and Theo Ratliff's expiring contract.

The deal depends on Garnett backing off his well-chronicled unwillingness to play in Boston. Yet sources indicated late Sunday that Garnett was warming to the idea, raising hopes on both sides that the deal will finally go through.

Multiple sources, hmmmm...

What fun it would be to watch Pierce, Allan & KG play on the same side. Look out Bulls, Cavs, & Pistons, shit!

[da_suns_fan__]

Would be good for the league.

[himat]

Damn...

[L.I.T]

Did they trade Doc Rivers as well?

[Switchman]

Those would be exciting games to watch.

[jacobdrj]

Did they trade Doc Rivers as well?


Oh, CRAP! Doc is still the coach!

I forgot.

Well, they'll make it to the ECF... no title though.

[Crookshanks]

I take issue with this statement! Let's see - Duncan, Parker and Ginobili have won 3 TITLES together - how many do Garnett, Pierce and Allen have? A BIG FAT ZERO!!!


Garnett joins veterans Paul Pierce and Ray Allen to form arguably the best trio in the NBA.

[mardigan]

I take issue with this statement! Let's see - Duncan, Parker and Ginobili have won 3 TITLES together - how many do Garnett, Pierce and Allen have? A BIG FAT ZERO!!!
Yea, cause they've never played together
I would venture to say that that big 3 is probably close to or as good as the Spurs big 3

[SRJ]

I take issue with this statement! Let's see - Duncan, Parker and Ginobili have won 3 TITLES together - how many do Garnett, Pierce and Allen have? A BIG FAT ZERO!!!

Duncan, Parker, and Ginobili together - 3 titles in 5 seasons
Garnett, Allen, and Pierce - zero titles in zero seasons

Hard to win one without having a chance at winning one.

[Fillmoe]

One involved source said the final package will have the Celts sending Al Jefferson, Ryan Gomes, Gerald Green, Sebastian Telfair, Theo Ratliff and a No. 1 pick to Minnesota to acquire Garnett.

http://realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/47391/20070730/source_kg_trade_essentially_completed/



boston over paid

[resistanze]

http://realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/47391/20070730/source_kg_trade_essentially_completed/



boston over paid
Wow, give them the choice b/w Gerald Green OR the #1 pick....not both.

[justanotherspursfan]

Yea, cause they've never played together
I would venture to say that that big 3 is probably close to or as good as the Spurs big 3
Yes. But then again, none of them is a real center or a real point guard -- the two most important positions on the court.

[Larry89]

http://sportsline.com/nba/story/10275030

[justanotherspursfan]

http://sportsline.com/nba/story/10275030
Celtics agree to acquire Garnett for four players, draft pick
July 30, 2007
CBS SportsLine.com wire reports

BOSTON -- Kevin Garnett is leaving Minnesota after the Boston Celtics agreed to acquire the All-Star forward in a multiplayer trade with the Timberwolves, a Celtics official told the Associated Press on Monday.

Among the players who could be headed to Minnesota are forward Al Jefferson, guard Sebastian Telfair, swingman Gerald Green and center Theo Ratliff, said the official, who spoke on condition of anonymity because the deal had not been completed. The official also said the Timberwolves would get at least one draft choice.

The teams still had some things to clarify with the players' contracts, but the official said that would not keep the Celtics from acquiring Garnett, although there could be a change in the players ticketed for the Timberwolves.

There was a chance that a conference call announcing the trade would be held Monday, the official said.



Garnett, 31, has spent all of his 12 NBA seasons with Minnesota. He would get an extension of his contract, which has one year plus an option year remaining, the official said.

The Celtics had tried to get Garnett late last month, but his agent said he didn't want to go to Boston.

Since then, Boston acquired seven-time All-Star guard Ray Allen from Seattle in a draft day deal. Already with Paul Pierce, the Celtics would become instant contenders in the mediocre Atlantic Division with Garnett, even without promising forward Jefferson.

The Celtics obtained Allen and the 35th pick of the draft for guards Delonte West and Wally Szczerbiak, and forward Jeff Green of Georgetown, whom they drafted with the fifth pick.

The Celtics have won just three playoff series during Pierce's nine years with them. They still have an NBA-record 16 championships, but none since 1986.

"They have no excuses, this team out there," Danny Ainge, the executive director of basketball operations, said after Allen was acquired.

Pierce, 29, led the Celtics in scoring last season but played only 47 games because of injury.

Allen, who turns 32 next month, averaged a career-high 26.4 points last season, his 11th, but underwent surgery to remove bone spurs on both ankles that required him to wear protective boots. He is expected to be ready for training camp.

[monosylab1k]

Wow. Boston could be in the Finals next year. They're gonna be right back to sucking in 3 years though.

[Medvedenko]

Holy Shit....I wanted KG in Purple and Gold...but Pierce, KG and Jesus...pretty good lineup.

[JamStone]

Holy Shit....I wanted KG in Purple and Gold...but Pierce, KG and Jesus...pretty good lineup.


If the NBA turns into a 3-on-3 league. It makes Boston a lot better, but still not a juggernaut. The rest of the roster, especially with what they gave up, is seriously lacking. They're a threat, no doubt. But, how good they will be remains to be seen. Ainge will have to find a lot of depth and some cheap alternatives to fill in all the holes.

I agree with the move for Boston, considering the ages of PP and Allen. I just don't think it means Boston is automatically the team to beat in the East.

But, that's just my opinion.

[mardigan]

Rondo
Allen
Pierce
Garnett
Perkins

Bench-Tony Allen, Big Baby, Scalabrine, Leon Powe
If they get a couple more bodies I dont see any reason why they wont be in the Finals

[JamStone]

Rondo
Allen
Pierce
Garnett
Perkins

Bench-Tony Allen, Big Baby, Scalabrine, Leon Powe
If they get a couple more bodies I dont see any reason why they wont be in the Finals


Chicago, Cleveland, Miami, Detroit, New Jersey, Washington are five reasons right there.

Celtics are better, but automatically in the Finals? I'd simply have to disagree.

[himat]

Chicago, Cleveland, Miami, Detroit, New Jersey, Washington are five reasons right there.

Celtics are better, but automatically in the Finals? I'd simply have to disagree.

NJ is a paper team and that's it. Washington is not a big threat either. The first 4 are teams just as good, if not teams better than the Celtics though.

Miami has had a horrible offseason.

Chicago only signed Joe Smith, and got Noah. That is not too much of an improvement.

Cleveland has made ZERO moves

Boston is not deep at all

Detroit is in pretty good position in the East.

[monosylab1k]

Chicago, Cleveland, Miami, Detroit, New Jersey, Washington are five reasons right there.
Chicago, Cleveland, and Detroit are the only other real contenders for the Finals. Washington is okay but not good enough, and Jersey & Miami are garbage. Boston has just become the 4th best team in the East at worst.

[Lp26]

Chicago, Cleveland, Miami, Detroit, New Jersey, Washington are five reasons right there.

Celtics are better, but automatically in the Finals? I'd simply have to disagree.

I agree w/ this.

Paul Pierce is routinely shut down by Luol Deng so the Bulls only have to worry about KG,Ray; They have Ben Wallace, Tyrus Thomas, Noah, etc. so only Ray Allen i think will be a major problem for them.

The Pistons have Sheed who's for the most part excellent on KG, Rip and Ray Allen sometimes cancel eachother out, and i don't remember Pierce playing particulary well againt Prince either.

Kevin Garnett hasn't proved he can win in the post-season, but Ray Allen is for the most part clutch.

All they have besides this is Rondo, who's talented, but has absolutely no shot.

I just don't see how this makes them favorites. Contenders, yes. But not favorites.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

I'm sure Bruce can handle both Pierce and Allen. He'll just slip his foot under Pierce and give him a twisted ankle and he can guard Allen the rest of the game.

[John Patrick]

What nobody can deny is that Boston is undeniably better.




If by some way they get past the gauntlet that is the Eastern Conference playoffs, and beat Cleveland, Detroit or Chicago in the Eastern Finals....

[trueD]

If the NBA turns into a 3-on-3 league. It makes Boston a lot better, but still not a juggernaut. The rest of the roster, especially with what they gave up, is seriously lacking. They're a threat, no doubt. But, how good they will be remains to be seen. Ainge will have to find a lot of depth and some cheap alternatives to fill in all the holes.

I agree with the move for Boston, considering the ages of PP and Allen. I just don't think it means Boston is automatically the team to beat in the East.

But, that's just my opinion.

I usually agree with your opinions, however these three make up 30% of the top ten players in the league, no? On one team. Who cares about the bench, there is always going to be a player who demands a double on the floor. And when they all play together their opponent may as well just save their energy for scoring and bring out the nail files or fingernail clippers or pumice stones when on defense. Do something constructive then hope their shooting is on. :)

[G-Money]

Celtics will be a 7th seed at best. I expect Pierce and Allan to be injured most of the season, leaving KG to fend for himself again. At best I see 7th seed, 2nd round exit. Just cause you put 3 very talented superstars together doesn't mean shit.

[trueD]

Oh, I get it ... you're Pistons fans! On top of your conference for what, five years running now?

Hahaha.

:dramaquee

[G-Money]

has nothing to do with being a piston fan. Just cause you have 3 superstars doesn't mean you would be any good. If they can mesh, say injury free get some better players to help the big 3 then maybe then can be a contender, but as of right now I don't see them being much of anything but kind of old now with Allan and KG and injury prone Allan and Pierce.

[JamStone]

I usually agree with your opinions, however these three make up 30% of the top ten players in the league, no? On one team. Who cares about the bench, there is always going to be a player who demands a double on the floor. And when they all play together their opponent may as well just save their energy for scoring and bring out the nail files or fingernail clippers or pumice stones when on defense. Do something constructive then hope their shooting is on. :)


I don't believe Ray Allen or Paul Pierce are top ten players in the league. KG undoubtedly is. And, Pierce may be close. But, Ray Allen, while still very good, is not a top 10 player, in my opinion.

At any rate, Ray Allen does not command double teams. KG and Paul Pierce make a formidable 1-2 punch, and as a third option, Ray Allen is scary. And, that's great. To me, without depth, Boston is unquestionably better, but I don't see them as the team to beat in the East.

Double teams off of Rajon Rondo and Kendrick Perkins will result in what exactly? Will Rondo have a consistent jumper this year to make teams pay for doubling off of him? Will Kendrick Perkins all of a sudden become a solid midrange jumpshooting big man? And, you do realize more and more teams lean on different defensive zone looks when they have problems with individual players or get into foul trouble, right?

I would be foolish to say that Boston isn't better. Of course they are. All I'm saying is that it does not automatically mean they are the team to beat. I don't believe that at all.

There are teams like Detroit and New Jersey and Chicago that won't double any of those three players on Boston, and also have more depth and quality at the point guard and center positions to in response cause mismatch problems for the Celtics.

Now, if Danny Ainge is shrewd enough to get some quality cheaper players, then that might change my opinion.

But, right now, Boston's back up small forward is Brian Scalabrine. Their two point guards are currently Rajon Rondo and Gabe Pruitt. They have serious holes in the line-up.

And, both Allen and Pierce have had recent injury problems. If Pierce gets hurt for any stretch of games, who starts at small forward? Tony Allen? Leon Powe?

The depth is not bad. It is horrible.

Better, yes. The Eastern Conference team to beat? I'm not convinced.

[monosylab1k]

LOL @ Pistons fans doing everything they can to convince themselves that Boston isn't that good now.

[monosylab1k]

Just cause you have 3 superstars doesn't mean you would be any good.
:lmao

[confined]

Holy hell, just saw the deal set in place on Sportscenter

garnett for jefferson, gomes, green, ratliff, telfair, and TWO first round picks

idk about anyone else but i think the celts get raped in this deal

[Lp26]

LOL @ Pistons fans doing everything they can to convince themselves that Boston isn't that good now.

No one's saying that Boston didn't get better, they're just not jumping on the championship bandwagon.

Teams need depth, role players, etc.

Didn't we all see what putting all superstars together did for the US team?

Nobody knows how this going to turn out, it could be really good, really bad, or somewhere in the middle. Doc Rivers is still the coach IIRC.

[JamStone]

LOL @ Pistons fans doing everything they can to convince themselves that Boston isn't that good now.


Boston is good.

Boston is not the team to beat in the Eastern Conference.

That's all I'm saying.

Detroit is not the team to beat in the Eastern Conference either. I don't think the Pistons make it to the Finals next year.

I think Chicago is better than Detroit. I think Cleveland is as good as Detroit. I think a healthy Miami team is as good as Detroit. I think New Jersey with better frontcourt depth could be one of the top teams in the conference.

I don't downplay Boston because I want or hope Detroit will win the East again. I don't expect Detroit to have the best record in the East, and I don't expect them to make it to the NBA Finals. I downplay Boston's roster because it still has plenty of holes in it. It does.

[JamStone]

:lmao

Ray Allen, Glen Robinson, Sam Cassell

Kevin Garnett, Stephon Marbury, Tom Gugliotta

Chris Webber, Peja Stojakovic, Mike Bibby

Steve Nash, Amare Stoudemire, Shawn Marion

Jason Kidd, Vince Carter, Richard Jefferson



It doesn't automatically work. Most people agree it's an improvement. Most of us are just not convinced it hands over the conference to Boston with no debate.

[Vinnie_Johnson]

Boston is getting rapped in this deal. They are giving away there best players. Three years from now they still won't have a banner to show for this trade.

[lefty]

I don't think there will be an ego problem ; those 3 guys just play to win

[Vinnie_Johnson]

Those three guys have never won anything lets hold off before we crown them as the team to beat in the east.

[sickdsm]

KG and an Old Spree and Sammy were a broken back away from taking a much lesser talanted trio to the finals with three of there top six pretty much hobbled for the year.


Need i mention that was through a tougher WC.

[JamStone]

KG, Spree, and Sam should not have been so Broke Back then.

[itzsoweezee]

Boston is getting rapped in this deal. They are giving away there best players. Three years from now they still won't have a banner to show for this trade.

boston sucked with their "best players". now, they're favorites to make the finals. i'd say it's a big improvement. yeah, they might have made the playoffs in a couple years with their core, but teams don't play to make the playoffs, they play to win championships. with this lineup, the celts have that opportunity now.

[itzsoweezee]

Just cause you have 3 superstars doesn't mean you would be any good.

no, i'm pretty sure that's exactly what it means. especially in the fucking shitty ass eastern conference.

[MWILL]

Did KG waive his trade clause?

Detroit fans shouldn't worry about Boston, they should worry about Cleveland. :lol

[trueD]

I don't believe Ray Allen or Paul Pierce are top ten players in the league. KG undoubtedly is. And, Pierce may be close. But, Ray Allen, while still very good, is not a top 10 player, in my opinion.

At any rate, Ray Allen does not command double teams. KG and Paul Pierce make a formidable 1-2 punch, and as a third option, Ray Allen is scary. And, that's great. To me, without depth, Boston is unquestionably better, but I don't see them as the team to beat in the East.

Double teams off of Rajon Rondo and Kendrick Perkins will result in what exactly? Will Rondo have a consistent jumper this year to make teams pay for doubling off of him? Will Kendrick Perkins all of a sudden become a solid midrange jumpshooting big man? And, you do realize more and more teams lean on different defensive zone looks when they have problems with individual players or get into foul trouble, right?

I would be foolish to say that Boston isn't better. Of course they are. All I'm saying is that it does not automatically mean they are the team to beat. I don't believe that at all.

There are teams like Detroit and New Jersey and Chicago that won't double any of those three players on Boston, and also have more depth and quality at the point guard and center positions to in response cause mismatch problems for the Celtics.

Now, if Danny Ainge is shrewd enough to get some quality cheaper players, then that might change my opinion.

But, right now, Boston's back up small forward is Brian Scalabrine. Their two point guards are currently Rajon Rondo and Gabe Pruitt. They have serious holes in the line-up.

And, both Allen and Pierce have had recent injury problems. If Pierce gets hurt for any stretch of games, who starts at small forward? Tony Allen? Leon Powe?

The depth is not bad. It is horrible.

Better, yes. The Eastern Conference team to beat? I'm not convinced.
Ray Allen does demand double teams? .438 FG, .372 3pt, 26.4 PPG, 4.1 assists

If two or more of these players are on the floor it's a defensive nightmare. How many teams have two superstars, let alone three, who can shoot well from anywhere on the floor? The deferring will be to the least of the defended ones of these three. No one can play zone all night.

I cannot imagine Ainge not springing for complimentary players, what does he have to lose at this point? Could you imagine if they signed Webber for vets minimum? Don't think it can't happen. :lol

These guys, Garnett...Pierce....Allen, will play a relaxed game together, and you can't say enough about Garnett's ability to handle the ball. Hell, he can play any position on the floor! Excuse my excitement. Nothing happening on my team, I gotta look elsewhere for some drama. :

[trueD]

KG, Spree, and Sam should not have been so Broke Back then.

:lol

[Pistons < Spurs]

There is no clear cut favorite in the East, but this does put Boston at the top with a few other teams.

Chicago
Boston
Washington
Detroit
Toronto
Jersey
Cleveland
Milwaukee

And saying that Boston doesn't have the depth needed....I don't buy it.

KG, Pierce and Ray are consistently in the top 10 for minutes played. They are the guys who are going to be on the floor.

PG will be handled by Rondo and Pruitt. Ray and Tony Allen can also play some PG if needed.

Tony Allen was looking great last year....till he had his idiot injury on the dunk. I look for him to return with a lot more confidence, being a key 6th man in the L.

Leon Powe should be ready to step up and be the reserve SF. He looked pretty sweet the last month of the reg season when he got minutes.

The frontcourt will be mostly handled by KG and Perkins. But they also have Scalibriene, Glen Davis and Brandon Wallace who they just signed.

They have more than enough help to offer the trio.

They just need to get it done in the next 2 or 3 years....cause after that, they fall back down to the basement.

I don't think they should be considered the favorite. In fact, I don't think there really is a true favorite in the East. But I'm pretty sure no one will want to face them in the playoffs.

[freedom&justice]

Oh, I get it ... you're Pistons fans! On top of your conference for what, five years running now?

Hahaha.

:dramaquee

Yeah, well. :wakeup It's better than being a fan of a lottery team, no?

[peskypesky]

I for one will be psyched to see KG go to Boston. The East is sorely in need of better players and teams. Shaq going to Miami helped, and so will KG in Boston. I also will be glad for KG. I couldn't stand to see him waste another precious year on a team that doesn't even make the playoffs.

That being said, i don't think an Allen/Pierce/Garnett trio immediately gets Boston to the Finals. But now, they DO make the playoffs, and they do have a shot at going deep. But only a shot. I mean, all you have to do is look at Denver, with AI, Carmelo, Camby and Nene, and they didn't even make it past the first round!

Three great players is no guarantee of anything more than a playoff spot.

[Vinnie_Johnson]

I for one will be psyched to see KG go to Boston. The East is sorely in need of better players and teams. Shaq going to Miami helped, and so will KG in Boston. I also will be glad for KG. I couldn't stand to see him waste another precious year on a team that doesn't even make the playoffs.

That being said, i don't think an Allen/Pierce/Garnett trio immediately gets Boston to the Finals. But now, they DO make the playoffs, and they do have a shot at going deep. But only a shot. I mean, all you have to do is look at Denver, with AI, Carmelo, Camby and Nene, and they didn't even make it past the first round!

Three great players is no guarantee of anything more than a playoff spot.

Yup great post I just don't think you can throw those players together and think they will just gel in one year and go to the finals. :clap

[freedom&justice]

Ray Ray, when healthy, is a legit threat. So is KG. And Pierce. Those three are legitimate superstars, but I wanna see how they mesh when the season starts before crowning them the kings of the East. An abundance of talent doesn't automatically mean championships. Just ask the Knicks, or Suns. It's all about how a team performs on the floor together.

The East is pretty wide open, IMO. Everything hinges on if a team can take all their talent and get them to perform cohesively. The Cavs have stayed put, and the Heat have arguably gotten way worse, but they still have Shaq and Wade. Boston's talent level went way up. The Wizards were a few injuries away from true contention last season, and the draft really helped them; same thing with the Knicks with their picks and Zach Randolph. The bulls still need some interior scoring, but they're still a tough team. Raps haven't done much either, and the Nets' interior D has improved..at least on paper; and they have Kidd.

As for the Pistons, the core four are intact, with a significant infusion of youth expected to help next year. Stuckey and Max definitely will, but the rest of those guys are still question marks, including hyper-athletic Amir Johnson.

All that said, here's how I think it'll shake out:
Bulls
Wizards
Pistons
Celtics
Cavs
Raptors
Magic
Knicks/Bucks

[freedom&justice]

Holy hell, just saw the deal set in place on Sportscenter

garnett for jefferson, gomes, green, ratliff, telfair, and TWO first round picks

idk about anyone else but i think the celts get raped in this deal

Wow, McHale did good. He has a pretty solid team now, at least on paper. Big Al, Green, Gomes, Randy Foye and Corey Brewer as well. That's a solid crop of youth. The two first rounders are a nice addition too.

[TDMVPDPOY]

ONLY jeff/gomez is a steal

telfair overrated and looks like a headcase

green???? hasnt done shit besides scrub minutes dunks = james white

seriously i hope both teams fail

[trueD]

Garnett & Pierce & Allen, oh my! (http://www.realkingstalk.com/)

I hope you don't mine me indulging you a short blog, anyone who wants, feel free to let me know what you think. Just wanted to get my somewhat-elementary thoughts down so when the big wigs say the same stuff we all know where they got it! :lol

[icem]

Boston is getting rapped in this deal. They are giving away there best players. Three years from now they still won't have a banner to show for this trade.


or so you hope....

[sickdsm]

KG, Spree, and Sam should not have been so Broke Back then.


Or his only backup shouldn't have elected to go ahead with surgury prematurely...........

[Supergirl]

I don't know about this. Yes, KG is a huge acquisition, but the C's are giving up half their roster, including a player who could be a huge star next year (Al Jefferson) who's a decade younger. They've already lost Delonte West and you add in Gomes - that's all the talent they HAD last year outside of Pierce.

Paul Pierce, KG, and Ray Allen is pretty sweet, but who the hell do they have to go with them? Who the hell is even left? They have a quality but young PG (Rondo) and not much else. And the big three isn't going to get them past anyone in the West for an NBA championship, if it even makes it to the East Finals. And is it really worth trading away ALL your young talent just to make it back in the playoffs?

[monosylab1k]

your use of the word "superstar" is incredibly liberal.


Ray Allen, Glen Robinson, Sam Cassell

not superstars


Kevin Garnett, Stephon Marbury, Tom Gugliotta

not even close to being superstars


Chris Webber, Peja Stojakovic, Mike Bibby

not superstars


Steve Nash, Amare Stoudemire, Shawn Marion

Amare is debatable, Marion definitely isn't


Jason Kidd, Vince Carter, Richard Jefferson

not even close

[JamStone]

I believe Peja Stojakovic finished in the top 5 in the MVP race in 2004. He averaged 24 and 6 at the small forward spot. After a year or two at Sacramento, Mike Bibby solidified himself as a top 5 point guard in the league during about a 3 year stretch. Those two are every bit the superstars Paul Pierce has been.

When Cassell was with Milwaukee, he was putting up 16 and 8 year after year. The only point guards during that time that were putting up better numbers were Jason Kidd, Stephon Marbury, and Gary Payton. Glen Robinson was a 20 point scorer in 8 of his first 9 seasons. Cassell wasn't viewed as a superstar, but his production was that of an elite point guard. And, Big Dog's numbers, especially at Milwaukee, are every bit as good as Paul Pierce's.

It's a joke if you don't think Stephone Marbury was a superstar when he played in Minnesota. And, the couple years Gugliotta was playing with Steph and KG, he averaged 20 points and 9 rebounds over those couple of seasons.

Shawn Marion had five straight years of 19 points and 9 rebounds at the small forward spot with no set plays run for him at the offensive end. He was in the MVP debate two seasons ago. He has often been described as a superstar role player. He's a role player, yes. A third option star, sure. But, he was putting up 19 and 9 before Nash was back at Phoenix and before Amare developed into the player he is.

Richard Jefferson has been putting up 20 points and 6-7 rebounds over the last 4 seasons. He's a side kick. But, you can put his production on par with any small forward after LeBron and Carmelo.


See, the problem with you is that you swallow what the sports media feeds you with respect to how you should view athletes. If you see an NBA player in a lot of commercials and ESPN top ten plays, that's your idea of a superstar.

The list that I made took into account the actual production those players had on the court. That's how I made my determination that those trios were comparable.

Ray Allen, Paul Pierce, and Kevin Garnett with all their superstardom and not one of them played in the playoffs last season. Your view of "superstardom" is a product of you not being able to think for yourself.

I can already predict your next argument ... yeah, but those players would never be on "Who's Now?"

[MajorMike]

Well, yeah, spanky, but how many how those threesomes listed ever won a title?

[monosylab1k]

Your view of "superstardom" is a product of you not being able to think for yourself.
yeah, you're right. Tom Gugliotta was a fucking SUPERSTAR. stupid asshole.

your view of "superstardom" so far is if a guy has ever scored 20 a game for one season. now that's what i call thinking for yourself because nobody else with half a fucking brain would ever think that.

Stephon Marbury a superstar? Cuz he threw a few flashy passes and dribbles like an And1 player?

Peja Stojakovic hits some wide open 3's because Webber is double-teamed and now hee's a superstar? Fuck, Jason Terry has done that, let's make Terry a superstar now.

Holy shit, if I use your logic, Dallas has like fuckin' 7 superstars!!!! Fuck yes!!! We got Dirk (a 20/10 guy!), Terry (hits three pointers!), Howard (all around spectacular!), Harris (fast as fuck!), Stackhouse (averaged like 30 a night in Detroit!), Diop (blocks like Mutombo!), and Dampier (scores and REBOUNDS!!!!)

don't come at me with weak shit like that ever again bitch.

[JamStone]

Your idea of a superstar is putting up great stats on a team that doesn't make the playoffs year after year. Stupid asshole.

Your idea of a great Saturday night is masturbating to South Park episodes.

Go fuck yourself again, Kenny.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

And besides, he said that if you have 3 superstars, it doesn't mean you would be any good. I'm pretty sure that the Kings and Suns trio were good.

[monosylab1k]

Your idea of a superstar is putting up great stats on a team that doesn't make the playoffs year after year. Stupid asshole.

Your idea of a great Saturday night is masturbating to South Park episodes.

Go fuck yourself again, Kenny.
:lmao

no, no, you're right. absolutely 100% right here.

So let's all hail the ULTIMATE SUPERSTAR!!!

http://www.nba.com/media/timberwolves/gugliotta_200_961219.jpg

http://sportsmed.starwave.com/media/nba/2001/0215/photo/a_gugliotta_i.jpg

http://sportsmed.starwave.com/i/magazine/new/gugliotta_20020709.jpg

http://i.a.cnn.net/si/images/basketball/nba/players/829.jpg

TOM GUGLIOTTA, GOD OF BASKETBALL

[JamStone]

All hail, the true superstars who get the Nike commercials and Sportscenter highlights and lead their teams to greatness!


2005-06 Minnesota Timberwolves: 33-49
2006-07 Minnesota Timberwolves: 32-50

2005-06 Seattle Sonics: 35-47
2006-07 Seattle Sonics: 31-51

2005-06 Boston Celtics: 33-49
2006-07 Boston Celtics: 24-48

[monosylab1k]

All hail, the true superstars who get the Nike commercials and Sportscenter highlights and lead their teams to greatness!


2005-06 Minnesota Timberwolves: 33-49
2006-07 Minnesota Timberwolves: 32-50

2005-06 Seattle Sonics: 35-47
2006-07 Seattle Sonics: 31-51

2005-06 Boston Celtics: 33-49
2006-07 Boston Celtics: 24-48

Ah, so being on a winning team = superstar? Fucking Awesome!

http://www.hoopsvibe.com/IMG/slava_medvedenko-arton21088-240x240.jpg
Slava Medvedenko, NBA Champion therefore NBA SUPERSTAR!

[monosylab1k]

Hopefully the Mavericks smarten up and trade for Medvedenko, Beno, and Michael Doleac. Playing for winning teams makes you a superstar. Those guys kick ass.

[JamStone]

You really are a fucking idiot.

"Superstar" is a strong word for some of the guys I mentioned. I'll admit that. I listed trios that had put up similar production Pierce, Allen, and KG have had and will put up together. If you'll notice, I didn't use "superstar" in any of my earlier posts, even though I responded to that. I didn't clarify, and since you were being a jackass, I hadn't up to now.

The trios I listed all put up numbers that will be favorable with what KG, PP, and Allen will put up together. No, not all of the players I listed are "superstars" in every sense of the word. But, their numbers are comparable, especially when they were in the trio I listed.

And, Gugliotta was a big time player when he played with KG and Marbury.

And, over the last two seasons, how much stardust has faded on guys like Ray Allen and Paul Pierce and even KG because of their lack of success? Except for probably KG, those other two aren't considered nearly as good as they were just 2-3 years ago.

Superstars 2 or 3 years ago do not equate them to be now. That's why you can criticize Peja and Bibby and Gugs, now that you can judge it in retrospect and in context of how they are viewed now. Make no mistake tho, Peja, Bibby, and Gugs when they played in the trios I listed were star players, Peja and Bibby even superstars for a time. And, Jefferson 2 years ago was on the cusp of being viewed as a superstar.

You argue now that you have 20/20 hindsight.

It's like calling Dirk clutch after the 2006 Western Conference Finals. Calling him clutch now is laughable. But, after the 2006 WCF, no one would have argued.

Retrospect is a nice tool of argument.

But, whatever. You had to be a dickhead about shit. I was just pointing out other great trios with great numbers who did not have ultimate championship success.

[monosylab1k]

"Superstar" is a strong word for some of the guys I mentioned. I'll admit that..
:lmao

no, no, no, no, no......Tom Gugliotta IS a superstar! Stick with it!

how fond are your memories of Rex Chapman? If you think the Googs was a superstar, I can only imagine how hard you would nut in your pants over some Chapman.

[JamStone]

See, why did I even bother?

Go do squats in a cucumber patch.

[monosylab1k]

See, why did I even bother?

Go do squats in a cucumber patch.
I can only imagine how excited you get playing some old school NBA Jam on your Sega Genesis.

"Detlef Schrempf, Googs, Chapman, Nick Anderson!!!! Superstars galore!"

[JamStone]

You amuse me. Thanks.

[monosylab1k]

You amuse me. Thanks.
Don't worry, by your logic your team has like 8 superstars so you don't have to worry about Boston and their measly 3.

[JamStone]

Thanks.

[Pistons < Spurs]

See, why did I even bother?

Don't even waste your time on him. It's quite clear what your point was, and it's also quite clear mono's an ass.

[monosylab1k]

It's quite clear what your point was
Yeah, one or two good years = superstar. Dan Dickau is a year away!

[Supergirl]

If this deal really does go down (and I'm still not sure it won't fall apart before it's done) then the C's will have shipped off half their roster (Jefferson, West, Gomes, Szerbiak) for 3 players who have all been All Stars, who could all make it to the Hal of Fame someday, and who have all been franchise players all by themselves for most of their career.

That being said, Allen and Pierce have both battled injuries, and all 3 are in their 30's.

It's a big gamble to trade young, young talent like Jefferson (not to mention West and Gomes, who are both pretty good) for that set up.

On the other hand, the C's need to do something to shake things up, cause Pierce is getting frustrated and the franchise has been going nowhere ever since they decided to blow up the Pierce and Walker tandem.

[JamStone]

It's a gamble, but at least it's a definitive and proactive move. I think Boston will be better. They do need to find some spare pieces, but they should be better. I just don't buy into the theory some suggest that they're the team to beat in the Eastern Conference, not just yet anyway. Add a decent back-up small forward, a veteran big man and a veteran point guard, and then they'll be on their way. But, can they do all of that with no pieces left to trade and only the MLE and veteran minimums left to work with?

They might end up pursuing old guys like Doug Christie, Derek Anderson to fill out their holes, or unproven youngsters like James White or Luke Schenscher that would not cost much at all. But, at least they don't need to find versatile guys they need to do multiple things. They need spot-up shooters and defenders.

I'm interested to see what else Danny Ainge does in terms of rounding out the roster.

[mardigan]

Its so funny to me that people say that A)the Celtics got raped, and B)That this trade doesnt make Boston a contender.
Jefferson (who only has 2 years left on his contract, no guarantee he would have re-signed anyway) is a nice player, and Green could be ok, but to act like these guys are proven commodities is stupid. How many games did these 2 help the Celts win last year? Gomes is ok, but really, this guy is going to make or break this deal? He only has 1 year left on his deal anyway, so Im pretty sure he will be traded. Telfair? I dont even have to say shit about him or Ratliff. The 2 picks, one of which was Minny's two start with, is necessary to get a former MVP.
Everyone keeps saying yea, but these guys havent won shit. Well what have the players Boston gave up proved that they can win?
All 3 of these players have taken shit teams far into the playoffs with way worse #2 options than they have now, and 2 of them in the West, but yet the 3 of them together wont be a factor in the shitty East.
And to all these Pistons fans saying that they arent contenders, hello, your team just got beat by the shittiest team to ever play in the Finals, so to pretend like this team wont be better than the Cavs is just that, pretending.
Im not a fan of any of these 3 players really besides Pierce, but all 3 want to win, 2 coming off great years, and pierce was playing great before he got hurt.
The Celts will grab a couple more guys like Brevin Knight or PJ Brown to fill out there roster, and they will be a top 2 team in the East.

[oligarchy]

Its so funny to me that people say that A)the Celtics got raped, and B)That this trade doesnt make Boston a contender.
Jefferson (who only has 2 years left on his contract, no guarantee he would have re-signed anyway) is a nice player, and Green could be ok, but to act like these guys are proven commodities is stupid. How many games did these 2 help the Celts win last year? Gomes is ok, but really, this guy is going to make or break this deal? He only has 1 year left on his deal anyway, so Im pretty sure he will be traded. Telfair? I dont even have to say shit about him or Ratliff. The 2 picks, one of which was Minny's two start with, is necessary to get a former MVP.
Everyone keeps saying yea, but these guys havent won shit. Well what have the players Boston gave up proved that they can win?
All 3 of these players have taken shit teams far into the playoffs with way worse #2 options than they have now, and 2 of them in the West, but yet the 3 of them together wont be a factor in the shitty East.
And to all these Pistons fans saying that they arent contenders, hello, your team just got beat by the shittiest team to ever play in the Finals, so to pretend like this team wont be better than the Cavs is just that, pretending.
Im not a fan of any of these 3 players really besides Pierce, but all 3 want to win, 2 coming off great years, and pierce was playing great before he got hurt.
The Celts will grab a couple more guys like Brevin Knight or PJ Brown to fill out there roster, and they will be a top 2 team in the East.

If I recall correclty, they have MLE and LLE left.

[Cry Havoc]

You really are a fucking idiot.

"Superstar" is a strong word for some of the guys I mentioned. I'll admit that. I listed trios that had put up similar production Pierce, Allen, and KG have had and will put up together. If you'll notice, I didn't use "superstar" in any of my earlier posts, even though I responded to that. I didn't clarify, and since you were being a jackass, I hadn't up to now.

The trios I listed all put up numbers that will be favorable with what KG, PP, and Allen will put up together. No, not all of the players I listed are "superstars" in every sense of the word. But, their numbers are comparable, especially when they were in the trio I listed.

And, Gugliotta was a big time player when he played with KG and Marbury.

And, over the last two seasons, how much stardust has faded on guys like Ray Allen and Paul Pierce and even KG because of their lack of success? Except for probably KG, those other two aren't considered nearly as good as they were just 2-3 years ago.

Superstars 2 or 3 years ago do not equate them to be now. That's why you can criticize Peja and Bibby and Gugs, now that you can judge it in retrospect and in context of how they are viewed now. Make no mistake tho, Peja, Bibby, and Gugs when they played in the trios I listed were star players, Peja and Bibby even superstars for a time. And, Jefferson 2 years ago was on the cusp of being viewed as a superstar.

You argue now that you have 20/20 hindsight.

It's like calling Dirk clutch after the 2006 Western Conference Finals. Calling him clutch now is laughable. But, after the 2006 WCF, no one would have argued.

Retrospect is a nice tool of argument.

But, whatever. You had to be a dickhead about shit. I was just pointing out other great trios with great numbers who did not have ultimate championship success.

Who's calling for a Celtics championship? If they were in the West, they would likely still be thought of as a middle-of-the-pack team. There's no way they can currently be considered better than the Spurs, Rockets, Mavs, Jazz or Suns with the huge, gaping holes at PG and C.

However, Boston just pulled a few trades that few teams in the NBA ever have the chance to do. They upgraded their team from a 25-35 win team to make a potential run at 45-55 games, with a real chance at the ECF, at the very least.

The main difference between this trade and many other "superstar" acquisitions, since we're throwing that word around, is that these players are largely complementary of one another. I don't mean they give each other high-fives. I mean their games are well suited to one another. KG is a fierce boarder and defensively strong, Ray Allen is a bomber who can kill you if you give him more than a foot, and Pierce has great penetration abilities and is very solid all-around.

The fact that you're up in-arms stating how they won't win a title is basically the same thing as saying the Cubs probably won't win it this year. Well, ya think? Man, you're really going out on a ledge there.

And anyone who DOES proclaim the Celts as the best in the NBA without setting foot on the court as a team is a complete dolt and a homer anyway, and you should know better than to respond to them in the first play.

[JamStone]

Its so funny to me that people say that A)the Celtics got raped, and B)That this trade doesnt make Boston a contender.
Jefferson (who only has 2 years left on his contract, no guarantee he would have re-signed anyway) is a nice player, and Green could be ok, but to act like these guys are proven commodities is stupid. How many games did these 2 help the Celts win last year? Gomes is ok, but really, this guy is going to make or break this deal? He only has 1 year left on his deal anyway, so Im pretty sure he will be traded. Telfair? I dont even have to say shit about him or Ratliff. The 2 picks, one of which was Minny's two start with, is necessary to get a former MVP.
Everyone keeps saying yea, but these guys havent won shit. Well what have the players Boston gave up proved that they can win?
All 3 of these players have taken shit teams far into the playoffs with way worse #2 options than they have now, and 2 of them in the West, but yet the 3 of them together wont be a factor in the shitty East.
And to all these Pistons fans saying that they arent contenders, hello, your team just got beat by the shittiest team to ever play in the Finals, so to pretend like this team wont be better than the Cavs is just that, pretending.
Im not a fan of any of these 3 players really besides Pierce, but all 3 want to win, 2 coming off great years, and pierce was playing great before he got hurt.
The Celts will grab a couple more guys like Brevin Knight or PJ Brown to fill out there roster, and they will be a top 2 team in the East.


Most people aren't saying Boston isn't a contender now. Most people aren't saying Boston got raped.

I think Boston got better. And, I definitely think they are a contender in the Eastern Conference now. I've just been saying it doesn't automatically pencil them into the NBA Finals.

You are misrepresenting what most people in this thread have written. There might be a few that said those things. Most Pistons fans haven't said Boston isn't a contender, just that they aren't the outright team to beat in the East.

There's a huge difference in what you imply and what has actually been stated.

[JamStone]

Who's calling for a Celtics championship? If they were in the West, they would likely still be thought of as a middle-of-the-pack team. There's no way they can currently be considered better than the Spurs, Rockets, Mavs, Jazz or Suns with the huge, gaping holes at PG and C.

However, Boston just pulled a few trades that few teams in the NBA ever have the chance to do. They upgraded their team from a 25-35 win team to make a potential run at 45-55 games, with a real chance at the ECF, at the very least.

The main difference between this trade and many other "superstar" acquisitions, since we're throwing that word around, is that these players are largely complementary of one another. I don't mean they give each other high-fives. I mean their games are well suited to one another. KG is a fierce boarder and defensively strong, Ray Allen is a bomber who can kill you if you give him more than a foot, and Pierce has great penetration abilities and is very solid all-around.

The fact that you're up in-arms stating how they won't win a title is basically the same thing as saying the Cubs probably won't win it this year. Well, ya think? Man, you're really going out on a ledge there.

And anyone who DOES proclaim the Celts as the best in the NBA without setting foot on the court as a team is a complete dolt and a homer anyway, and you should know better than to respond to them in the first play.


It's a messageboard. There's discussion. I added my two cents in. I've already stated that I believe the move makes the Celtics better. I've just been saying I don't think it makes them the outright favorite in the Eastern Conference. That's all.

I posted my opinion just like everyone else has.

The back and forth with mono was just over the idea that three great players automatically means a team is good or not. The word "superstars" was tossed around, but that wasn't my point, and what ensued was stupid mindless banter on both parts.

I don't think many think many people peg the Celtics as favorites for an NBA title. But, there are some that believe they are the obvious choice to be the Eastern Conference NBA finalist. I'm just offering an opinion that I don't think that's the case, just yet anyway.

Just an opinion. It's a messageboard. The messageboard is filled with opinions. I'm not responding to anyone who claims Boston will win a title. I'm expressing an opinion. Just as you just did.

[mardigan]

Most people aren't saying Boston isn't a contender now. Most people aren't saying Boston got raped.

I think Boston got better. And, I definitely think they are a contender in the Eastern Conference now. I've just been saying it doesn't automatically pencil them into the NBA Finals.

You are misrepresenting what most people in this thread have written. There might be a few that said those things. Most Pistons fans haven't said Boston isn't a contender, just that they aren't the outright team to beat in the East.

There's a huge difference in what you imply and what has actually been stated.

Celtics will be a 7th seed at best. I expect Pierce and Allan to be injured most of the season, leaving KG to fend for himself again. At best I see 7th seed, 2nd round exit. Just cause you put 3 very talented superstars together doesn't mean shit.




idk about anyone else but i think the celts get raped in this deal


Boston is getting rapped in this deal. They are giving away there best players. Three years from now they still won't have a banner to show for this trade.

Thats 3 from this thread, not to mention the other one.
You keep saying depth, depth, depth, yet the Cavs knocked off the Pistons and got to the Finals with none.
Boston after they add a couple more vets will be the best team in the East by far

[JamStone]

Thats 3 from this thread, not to mention the other one.
You keep saying depth, depth, depth, yet the Cavs knocked off the Pistons and got to the Finals with none.
Boston after they add a couple more vets will be the best team in the East by far

3 out of 84 responses. Again, my point is that most people aren't saying those things.

Cavs had more depth than Tony Allen, Leon Powe, and Brian Scalabrine.

The Celtics still need to add at least two quality role players to that squad. Depending if they do that and who they are, then I can change my impression of that team.

I'm not one of those people who think Boston got raped or that they're not contenders, at least in the Eastern Conference. I am just questioning anyone who thinks that the Celtics are automatically the team to beat in the East.

[mardigan]

Cavs had more depth than Tony Allen, Leon Powe, and Brian Scalabrine.
Who? Donyell Marshall? Damon Jones? Eric Snow?
No they won because of their starters, not because of their bench.
Varajao was all they had off the bench, and he cant score
Gibson played well, but he was a second round pick that played way over his head, so why couldnt the Celts have someone like Pruitt or Davis step up?
Not to mention the Celts will actually have a scorer off the bench in Allen, something the Cavs didnt have.

[JamStone]

Daniel Gibson came off the bench for most of the playoffs. Gibson had several very big games, especially against the Pistons. Without Gibson, the Pistons very well may have been able to get past the Cavs. Did you forget about Daniel Gibson? Varejao was very good for the most part and for what he brings.

Eric Snow and Donyell Marshall are both more productive than Tony Allen, Leon Powe, and Scalabrine, and they are the 8th and 9th guys for the Cavs last year in the playoffs. As it stands now, Tony Allen, Powe, and Scalabrine will be counted on very heavily as the initial bench reserves.

And, at any rate, the Cavs didn't have the gaping holes in the starting line-up the Celtics currently have. So, it's not just the bench, but the fact that Rajon Rondo can't shoot and Kendrick Perkins is likely currently slated to start at center.

Larry Hughes versus Rajon Rondo.
Zydrunas Ilgauskas versus Kendrick Perkins.

Not just bench depth versus bench depth. That's not an accurate comparison because the two starting spots for the Celtics makes the bench depth that much more crucial.

It's not just the bench by itself. It's also that the Celtics are very weak at two of the starting positions.

Again, if Danny Ainge makes smart moves to cover those holes, then it could be a different story.

[mardigan]

Daniel Gibson came off the bench for most of the playoffs. Gibson had several very big games, especially against the Pistons. Without Gibson, the Pistons very well may have been able to get past the Cavs. Did you forget about Daniel Gibson? Varejao was very good for the most part and for what he brings.

Eric Snow and Donyell Marshall are both more productive than Tony Allen, Leon Powe, and Scalabrine, and they are the 8th and 9th guys for the Cavs last year in the playoffs. As it stands now, Tony Allen, Powe, and Scalabrine will be counted on very heavily as the initial bench reserves.

And, at any rate, the Cavs didn't have the gaping holes in the starting line-up the Celtics currently have. So, it's not just the bench, but the fact that Rajon Rondo can't shoot and Kendrick Perkins is likely currently slated to start at center.

Larry Hughes versus Rajon Rondo.
Zydrunas Ilgauskas versus Kendrick Perkins.

Not just bench depth versus bench depth. That's not an accurate comparison because the two starting spots for the Celtics makes the bench depth that much more crucial.

It's not just the bench by itself. It's also that the Celtics are very weak at two of the starting positions.

Again, if Danny Ainge makes smart moves to cover those holes, then it could be a different story.
No, I actually addressed Gibson by saying that if a second round pick can play well in the playoffs for the Cavs, why couldnt Pruitt or Davis do the same for the Celts?
And Snow and marshall both suck ass and did nothing all year or in the playoffs.
Hughes is vastly over-rated, and even when hurt the Cavs where still able to move past the Pistons.
Big Z also i sucks ass and its hard for me to give him the advantage over anyone
So the Celts will have a pretty good starting 5, with a bench scorer/defender, a rookie pf who was tearing up the summer league, and a second year sf/pf in Powe who was making huge strides towards the end of last year and during summer league.
Add to the fact that Rondo and Perkins will both be much better next year, plus the Celts having to add a couple more pieces, they will have plenty of depth
I still think the Pistons are the favorites, but after that ECF series, it seriously shook my beliefs of how good they are.

You are right about them having to get a couple of vets though, there bench is going to be very young as it stands right now

[JamStone]

Marshall hit 6 or 7 three pointers in the deciding game of the New Jersey series. Snow sucks, but he gets 5-10 minutes where he has to play above average defense, and he did several times on Vince Carter again in that New Jersey series.

Daniel Gibson was depth. He didn't start until Larry Hughes got injured. He was part of that depth.

Pruitt and Davis might be able to step up. But, they will also need to step up right away from the beginning of the regular season because they are automatically higher on the depth chart. Will they be able to positively contribute right away without any grace period? Maybe. But, right now, Kevin Garnett is the only proven commodity in the frontcourt for the Celtics. Kendrick Perkins and Glen Davis will BOTH have to contribute on a nightly basis. And, Gabe Pruitt will be thrown into the fire right away as well. It's sink or swim. Right now, the Celtics don't have any safety rope if they don't contribute. They can only hope to hide them behind prolific offensive numbers by KG, Allen, and Pierce. What happens when a quality point guard attacks Rondo and Pruitt. Wait until Jason Kidd and Gilbert Arenas and Chauncey Billups exploit their youth, inexperience, size, and strength. And, what happens when a team has two quality big men? Against the Knicks, who does Kendrick Perkins guard? Eddy Curry or Zach Randolph?

You would hope that Rondo and Perkins improve, especially being surrounded with the talent of the three stars. If they can be as good as DeShawn Stevenson and Etan Thomas, that might be enough. If they can fit in like DeSagana Diop and Greg Buckner, perhaps then they'll be fine. If they're Jason Collins and Smush Parker good, is that enough though?

Even if the Celtics add a couple more pieces, of course depending on who they are, I still don't know if you can say they'll have "plenty of depth."

As for the Pistons, I don't think they are the favorites in the East. I think they'll take the step back that people expected for the last three seasons. I think they'll barely win 50 games, if that many. And, I think they lose in the second round of the playoffs. I think they will really try to dedicate this season to developing some young players, whether they want to accept the results of early round playoff failure or not.

I think Chicago will be the best team in the Eastern Conference next season. And, with a healthy Nenad Krstic and a newly acquired Jamall Magloire, I expect the Nets to be right in the thick of things near the top of the conference again as well.

Miami, Cleveland, and Detroit will be competitive and could challenge for top spots in their respective divisions. And, now Boston along with Washington and New York will act as spoilers and may end up surprising the conference as well. I think Toronto falls out of the playoffs. And, I think Orlando will be a team scraping for a 7th or 8th seed.

[AFBlue]

This is a GREAT trade for the Celtics. Anyone who sees it any other way is insane.

The Celtics main loss in this deal was Gomes.

Hear me out before you pass judgement. I say that Gomes was the biggest loss because they don't have anyone at the moment who replaces his skill-set (combo forward).

I undersand that Jefferson was the most talented player to go from the Celts, but he's being replaced by Kevin Garnett....not to mention they've got two potentially solid backups in "Big Baby" Davis and Leon Powe that play the same position.

They also lost West, but Rondo is a capable assist man and they drafted Gabe Pruitt....who, like West, is more of a scoring combo guard.

Szerbiak and Green together don't come close to equaling Ray Allen, and the Celtics still have Tony Allen who should be a sparkplug off the bench when fully recovered.

They have 12 players if you include Brandon Wallace, but they have the MLE and LLE to go out and add a couple veterans if they wanted to IL some of their younger guys.

Bottom Line: While dealing Gomes leaves them skinny at SF, they added two perennial all-stars and have vaulted themselves to the top of the Eastern Conference.

[mardigan]

Marshall hit 6 or 7 three pointers in the deciding game of the New Jersey series. Snow sucks, but he gets 5-10 minutes where he has to play above average defense, and he did several times on Vince Carter again in that New Jersey series.



And, with a healthy Nenad Krstic and a newly acquired Jamall Magloire, I expect the Nets to be right in the thick of things near the top of the conference again as well.
Marshall had that one game, but other than that he didnt do shit, and was a defensive liabiltiy every time he touched the floor.
And I feel what your saying about the point guard position, but Rondo is an excellent defender, and even showed that during his rookie year.

And I completely agree about the Nets, getting Krstic back on top of Magloire and drafting Shaun Williams they could be at the top of the East

I just think that after they sign a few vets, maybe even a Jalen Rose or someone, will have the most dangerous team in the East
I bet they wished they had held on to Allen Ray though

[AFBlue]

Who's calling for a Celtics championship? If they were in the West, they would likely still be thought of as a middle-of-the-pack team. There's no way they can currently be considered better than the Spurs, Rockets, Mavs, Jazz or Suns with the huge, gaping holes at PG and C.



Disagree with this take.

NO team in the league today has solid to great players at every position. Every team has flaws.

At PG the Celtics have a good assist guy who's main flaw is that he can't shoot....which shouldn't be a problem since he won't be asked to very much. They also drafted Gabe Pruitt, who fills the same role as Delonte West. So they need a third PG.....they have the $$ to go out and get one.

At Center they've got Kendrick Perkins....who's main job will be to grab rebounds, which isn't too much to ask. Dude will be playing next to Kevin Garnett. Put it this way....do the Spurs ask alot of Oberto/Elson? Exactly...

IMO, the Celtics would be 5th...maybe 6th best team in the Western Conference.

[JamStone]

Ok, agreed for the most part, mardigan.

Remember, Marshall and Snow only played about 10 mpg in the playoffs. And, at the very least, you knew what you're getting. With Davis and Pruitt, the Celtics may be asking even more minutes out of them and they have no idea what they're getting as of yet. But, you're right in that either one or both may end up being good role players.

On the Nets ... I don't like the Nets, like their fans even less, like Dickface Thorn even less than that. But, Rod Thorn did a solid job at making calculated gambles to put the Nets in a very good position this year and next. Healthy, the Nets have as much talent as any team in the East. Getting Magloire to sign a one year contract was very smart also.

Boston will definitely add a few pieces. And, to me, the guys Ainge ends up adding to the roster might be almost as important as the deals for KG and Ray Allen. Jalen Rose and Chris Webber might be guys he goes after. Even Doug Christie, who might still be able to play all three perimeter positions, could possibly be an option. How about Derek Anderson, who can also play some point guard? Old veteran centers like Dale Davis or Marc Jackson might provide needed depth upfront. Then there might also be some cheap younger alternatives like James White and Melvin Ely to shore up those depth issues.

How Ainge finishes rounding out that roster could end up being extremely telling factors as to how that team ends up performing throughout the season.

[Supergirl]

Speaking of Kendrick Perkins...dude is gonna look a lot better if he plays beside KG, that's all I have to say. He's a decent rebounder and center when he wants to be, and he's never played beside such talent before. Hmmmm. So...if this goes through the C's starting line up is:

Kevin Garnett
Paul Pierce
Kendrick Perkins
Ray Allen
Rajon Rondo

Not bad. It's a lot of responsiblity on Rondo's shoulders, trying to lead a veteran team like that but the kid is really good, from what I gather.

They've basically decimated the rest of their roster, but they do still have Brian Scalabrine and Leon Powe, who have some potential, and they've got Glen Davis and someone else who looked promising from this year's rookie class. 2-3 more halfway decent players and they should have a solidly contending team.

BUT, they did give up LOADS of talent in Al Jefferson and Delonte West to try this, and we don't know whether PP, Ray, and KG can even co-exist together...

[mardigan]

Ok, agreed for the most part, mardigan.

Remember, Marshall and Snow only played about 10 mpg in the playoffs. And, at the very least, you knew what you're getting. With Davis and Pruitt, the Celtics may be asking even more minutes out of them and they have no idea what they're getting as of yet. But, you're right in that either one or both may end up being good role players.

On the Nets ... I don't like the Nets, like their fans even less, like Dickface Thorn even less than that. But, Rod Thorn did a solid job at making calculated gambles to put the Nets in a very good position this year and next. Healthy, the Nets have as much talent as any team in the East. Getting Magloire to sign a one year contract was very smart also.

Boston will definitely add a few pieces. And, to me, the guys Ainge ends up adding to the roster might be almost as important as the deals for KG and Ray Allen. Jalen Rose and Chris Webber might be guys he goes after. Even Doug Christie, who might still be able to play all three perimeter positions, could possibly be an option. How about Derek Anderson, who can also play some point guard? Old veteran centers like Dale Davis or Marc Jackson might provide needed depth upfront. Then there might also be some cheap younger alternatives like James White and Melvin Ely to shore up those depth issues.

How Ainge finishes rounding out that roster could end up being extremely telling factors as to how that team ends up performing throughout the season.
For sure, a couple of guys like that that could provide depth and knowledge to a young team could be key.
I probably did go a little far already putting them in the Finals, think it was just the shock of seeing a NBA Live team assembled so quickly.
Why is it you think the Pistons take a step back? They bring back the same team plus Stuckey, who should solve their bench scoring issues.
If any team takes a step back I think it will be the Cavs and the Raps, niether team will be a surprise team and have added nothing to address thier own problems (unless you count Kapono).

[SRJ]

What jersey number will Garnett wear? #21 is retired by the Celtics (Bill Sharman).

[mardigan]

Speaking of Kendrick Perkins...dude is gonna look a lot better if he plays beside KG, that's all I have to say. He's a decent rebounder and center when he wants to be, and he's never played beside such talent before. Hmmmm. So...if this goes through the C's starting line up is:

Kevin Garnett
Paul Pierce
Kendrick Perkins
Ray Allen
Rajon Rondo

Not bad. It's a lot of responsiblity on Rondo's shoulders, trying to lead a veteran team like that but the kid is really good, from what I gather.

They've basically decimated the rest of their roster, but they do still have Brian Scalabrine and Leon Powe, who have some potential, and they've got Glen Davis and someone else who looked promising from this year's rookie class. 2-3 more halfway decent players and they should have a solidly contending team.

BUT, they did give up LOADS of talent in Al Jefferson and Delonte West to try this, and we don't know whether PP, Ray, and KG can even co-exist together...
I like Perkins a lot as well, he has improved every year since coming out of high school, and averaged 5 boards and a block and a half last year in like 21 minutes a game.
As far as Jefferson, who really knows how good he will be. Maybe he turns out to be Elton Brand, but even then, would you really put Brand over Garnett?
Dealing talent is always hard, you dont know how good it will be, but trading it for a known entity like Garnett always makes it easier.
West, Szcerbiak, Telfair, Ratliff, Green, Gomez, and 3 first round picks for Ray Allen and Kevin Garnett seems pretty fair to me.

[JamStone]

For sure, a couple of guys like that that could provide depth and knowledge to a young team could be key.
I probably did go a little far already putting them in the Finals, think it was just the shock of seeing a NBA Live team assembled so quickly.
Why is it you think the Pistons take a step back? They bring back the same team plus Stuckey, who should solve their bench scoring issues.
If any team takes a step back I think it will be the Cavs and the Raps, niether team will be a surprise team and have added nothing to address thier own problems (unless you count Kapono).


Yeah, well the onus is on Ainge to make some smart, cheap moves, but it's possible. Back-up swing man should be first priority, then a veteran center, and then a veteran point guard if they can find all of that with the MLE and veteran exceptions. I'll give credit to Ainge for getting Ray Allen and Kevin Garnett without losing Pierce. But, he IS still Danny Ainge. I am not going to assume he makes the right moves on who else he brings in.

The Pistons still have a host of problems that are not only apparent on paper when you look at the roster. I think many of the core players have grown tired of Flip Saunders. I think that emotionally, that has played a role in some of the mental lapses and lack of focus the team has had over the last two seasons, more specifically in the playoffs. Their focus and determination and hunger has been clouded by cocky arrogance and a feeling of self entitlement. I place blame on the coach for that. Because the talent and team chemistry the Pistons should have dictates that they should have had better success the last two seasons.

That's just one of the problems you don't necessarily see when you just look at the team on paper. But, it's also something that plenty of people have criticized about them. And, I think there's more merit than some think in that.

I also still think they have a problem at center. Nazr sucks, and we should have known he wasn't going to be much better than when he was with the Spurs. Chris Webber can't play defense, and who knows if he returns. Jason Maxiell is a beast and deserves to start, but he's listed at 6-7 and really about 6-5. If he starts, that forces him to guard centers who are much bigger than he is or forces Rasheed to play out of position. But, in all honesty, Maxiell is probably the best player the Pistons have to start with the other four starters. The make-up of the Pistons is not that of the Phoenix Suns, so small ball doesn't necessarily seem very appealing or successful.

After that, the Pistons still don't have a back-up small forward. As it stands, late first round draft pick Arron Afflalo or Ronald Dupree will have to end up getting considerable playing time at the back-up small forward spot. I don't like that, especially with all the great swingmen in the Eastern Conference, from LeBron to Pierce to Rashard Lewis to Gerald Wallace to Richard Jefferson to Josh Smith. I just think the Pistons need some better size and athleticism at that back-up spot.

And, finally, we don't know what we're getting with Rodney Stuckey. We're hoping he's an upgrade. But, he's still a rookie. We won't know until we see him for a few games. And, right now, he's going to be asked to carry the scoring load off the bench. Pretty demanding for a rookie to handle on an "alleged" championship caliber team.

I think teams like the Nets and Washington (healthy) and Chicago have all improved, and then you have the new Boston Celtics. You add Cleveland and Miami, and the Eastern Conference appear at least on paper more competitive. The Pistons are a little older and not discernably better from last year. I have my doubts. They will still compete, but I think they take a step back. We're hoping that Amir Johnson is everything he's cracked up to be and more.

We'll just have to wait and see.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

What jersey number will Garnett wear? #21 is retired by the Celtics (Bill Sharman).
#5

[dknights411]

What jersey number will Garnett wear? #21 is retired by the Celtics (Bill Sharman).

http://celticsstore.seenon.com/img/product/catl/00034250-913493.jpg

[Cry Havoc]

Disagree with this take.

NO team in the league today has solid to great players at every position. Every team has flaws.

At PG the Celtics have a good assist guy who's main flaw is that he can't shoot....which shouldn't be a problem since he won't be asked to very much. They also drafted Gabe Pruitt, who fills the same role as Delonte West. So they need a third PG.....they have the $$ to go out and get one.

At Center they've got Kendrick Perkins....who's main job will be to grab rebounds, which isn't too much to ask. Dude will be playing next to Kevin Garnett. Put it this way....do the Spurs ask alot of Oberto/Elson? Exactly...

IMO, the Celtics would be 5th...maybe 6th best team in the Western Conference.

Oberto and Elson do a hell of a lot more than they ever get respect for. The Spurs play an incredibly quick team defense, and if either of them failed to learn the necessary rotations, they would have been practically worthless.

There is a difference between not having a great player at a position and having a complete liability. Do you REALLY feel that the young little PG they have is going to be able to be a "good assist guy" when it matters? Against the best teams in the East?

And yes, every team has flaws. Then again, some teams have depth beyond their 3 best players. Just saying.

[AFBlue]

Oberto and Elson do a hell of a lot more than they ever get respect for. The Spurs play an incredibly quick team defense, and if either of them failed to learn the necessary rotations, they would have been practically worthless.

There is a difference between not having a great player at a position and having a complete liability. Do you REALLY feel that the young little PG they have is going to be able to be a "good assist guy" when it matters? Against the best teams in the East?

And yes, every team has flaws. Then again, some teams have depth beyond their 3 best players. Just saying.

Uhh Elson missed rotations all year and was mediocre at best on the whole last season. Oberto had a big slump in the middle of the season when you couldn't call him anything but a liability. Still...at least Oberto managed to come through in the end and proved to be a good compliment to Duncan.

About Rondo, I'm a believer. I think he'll handle the pressure of being the starting PG well. I think he'll hang his hat on defense, and won't have to deal with the pressure of taking this team on his shoulders....just the pressure of not screwing up routine plays.

My general comment is this....

With a total of 12 players on their roster as of now (and the likelihood of adding a couple more) there is opportunity for players to step up and become that #6 guy and that #7 guy. Maybe Leon Powe, Brian Scalabrine, or Glen Davis flames out...but the chances that ALL THREE are duds is less likely.

IMO....at least Big Baby, T. Allen, and Gabe Pruitt will step up.

[Findog]

Fuck this "who is gonna fill out Boston's rotation" talk. Let's get to the important stuff: What do you call this Big Three?

Jesus and His Disciples?
John, Paul, George and Rondo?
The Father, the Son and the Holy Post?
Rock, Paper, Scissors?

[resistanze]

No one's fucking with this big three...

http://lifeinthemiddle.typepad.co.uk/life_in_the_middle/images/snap.jpg

[mardigan]

Oberto and Elson do a hell of a lot more than they ever get respect for. The Spurs play an incredibly quick team defense, and if either of them failed to learn the necessary rotations, they would have been practically worthless.

There is a difference between not having a great player at a position and having a complete liability. Do you REALLY feel that the young little PG they have is going to be able to be a "good assist guy" when it matters? Against the best teams in the East?

And yes, every team has flaws. Then again, some teams have depth beyond their 3 best players. Just saying.
Rondo averaged 4 assists a game in like 22 minutes a game, I think he will be alright. His stats were very impressive for the amount of minutes he got. Plus, with those 3 guys, it will be pretty easy for him to get them shots I would think, especially since Garnett is a very good facilitator from the post, and Allen has pretty good ball skills himself

[JamStone]

Rondo ain't bad. Don't know how many assists he'll get when KG, Pierce, and Allen practice passing drills to each other on offense every time down. I bet those three even bring up the ball a lot of times. Well, it wouldn't surprise me anyway.

I would think a spot up shooter at the PG position would be more valuable than a dribble drive penetrating PG who can't shoot when you talk about playing off of the three stars. Someone like Eddie House would fit nicely.

[Medvedenko]

I'm very intrigued by the Celtics....showed a lot of balls to make the trades happen bringing in KG and Jesus...

They are not finished making moves either and I bet a few vets on the bubble would have to look at the Celtics now as a destination and potential shot at a ring. I know it seems like a NBA Live team but you have very complimentary players....remember when the Lakers got an old Payton and Malone to go with Shaq and Kobe....everyone thought it wouldn't work and it took injuries to disrupt their run. Still, It's good for the NBA and the East. I know being a laker fan I shouldn't suppor them, but it's been too many years that the Green team sucked donkey balls.

[peskypesky]

Boston has a chance to get to the Finals now, but only because they're in the leastern conference. I pray to God they have a great season and do make it to the Finals, but I would not bet on it. My fear is that the big three will be worn out and injured from having to carry the Celtics all season long without an adequate supporting cast. At their ages, the long minutes are dangerous.

[mardigan]

Rondo ain't bad. Don't know how many assists he'll get when KG, Pierce, and Allen practice passing drills to each other on offense every time down. I bet those three even bring up the ball a lot of times. Well, it wouldn't surprise me anyway.

I would think a spot up shooter at the PG position would be more valuable than a dribble drive penetrating PG who can't shoot when you talk about playing off of the three stars. Someone like Eddie House would fit nicely.
If he can get 4 assists a game with the crap Boston was throwing out there last year in the time he was given, I have no doubt that he will be a 7 plus assist guy next year.
6 points, 4 assists, 4 rebounds and 2 steals a game in 23 minutes, pretty damn good for a rookie

[JamStone]

Like I said, KG, Pierce, and Allen will be passing the ball to each other in the halfcourt set. KG and Pierce will initiate the offense. They'll get the majority of the assists. Rondo will get his assists when he pushes the ball and they get buckets in transition.

I would bet that KG ends up averaging more assists then Rondo on the season.

[sickdsm]

I'm very intrigued by the Celtics....showed a lot of balls to make the trades happen bringing in KG and Jesus...

They are not finished making moves either and I bet a few vets on the bubble would have to look at the Celtics now as a destination and potential shot at a ring. I know it seems like a NBA Live team but you have very complimentary players....remember when the Lakers got an old Payton and Malone to go with Shaq and Kobe....everyone thought it wouldn't work and it took injuries to disrupt their run. Still, It's good for the NBA and the East. I know being a laker fan I shouldn't suppor them, but it's been too many years that the Green team sucked donkey balls.


Shit, the only reason those lakers made it as far as they did was an injury run.

[NBA Junkie]

Shit, the only reason those lakers made it as far as they did was an injury run.

...to Sam Cassell.

[JamStone]

injuries = self-perceived beautiful excuse