return of parker at san antonio

[fred33]

meneur de jeu de l'équipe de France, Tony Parker, a été rappelé par son club des San Antonio Spurs pour passer des examens médicaux après sa blessure contractée la semaine dernière à la cheville gauche, communique la Fédération française de basket (FFBB).

L'arrière quittera le groupe France mercredi dans la soirée pour rejoindre son club dès vendredi. Il retrouvera ses coéquipiers de la sélection nationale lors du tournoi de Strasbourg, du 10 au 12 août prochains.

L'équipe de France est actuellement réunie en stage à Divonne-les-Bains (01) pour préparer le championnat d'Europe qui se déroulera du 3 au 16 septembre en Espagne.

VOS REACTIONS

[boutons_]

Kinda worried that the Spurs, who are certainly in close contact with the French's team's doctors, would think the injury was serious enough for Tony to be seen by the Spurs' doctors.

[mathbzh]

Quick translation:
Tony Parker was called back to SA to pass medical tests after he injured his left ankle.
He will be back with the French Team for the Strasbourg tournament (10th of august).
The French Team is gathered in Divonne-les-Bains to prepare the next euro (09/3 to 09/16).

[mathbzh]

It is becoming a big problem to have NBA Stars playing FIBA games. The French Team already have a problem to pay Boris Diaw insurance for his back. The French coach is also very careful with Parker health. He said in an interview something like "If SA staff read in a newspaper that Parker played poorly because of a bad ankle, we are dead"

[Bruno]

I find that Spurs are stupid by acting like that.

Either you don't trust French NT medical staff and you don't let Parker play with the NT or you trust them and you don't call him back when Parker has a minor injury.

If Parker is tired or injured during the regular season or the playoffs, Spurs will be the ones to blame not French NT. Parker has a very busy summer and he will have two more Europe/USA travels just because Spurs medical staff don't trust French NT medical staff. Very clever...

[Lady M]

A croire que la France est un pays en voie de développement
il n'y pas ni médecins compétents ni matériel pour faire des examens.
c'est mieux d'obliger Tony a faire 16000km en 3 jours et augmenter avec la fatigue les risques de blessures.
et après les américains veulent qu'on les respecte si ils commençaient par arreter de se prendre pour le centre du monde :bang

[mathbzh]

I find that Spurs are stupid by acting like that.

Either you don't trust French NT medical staff and you don't let Parker play with the NT or you trust them and you don't call him back when Parker has a minor injury.

If Parker is tired or injured during the regular season or the playoffs, Spurs will be the ones to blame not French NT. Parker has a very busy summer and he will have two more Europe/USA travels just because Spurs medical staff don't trust French NT medical staff. Very clever...

Sometime I wonder if NBA teams use miracle healing other countries don't know.
The "Tour de France" proximity just make me wonder how skinny 20 yo prospects can add 30 pounds of muscles in one or two years... Weird.

[mathbzh]

A croire que la France est un pays en voie de développement
il n'y pas ni médecins compétents ni matériel pour faire des examens.
c'est mieux d'obliger Tony a faire 16000km en 3 jours et augmenter avec la fatigue les risques de blessures.
et après les américains veulent qu'on les respecte si ils commençaient par arreter de se prendre pour le centre du monde :bang

I don't think it is about USA and France. It is "just" business.

[ducks]

I like the fact spurs want to see the players
they have millions involved with parker
when a player is hurt it is best that the team that has the most at stake doctors look at him

nothing against france I would say this to any player

[Lady M]

I don't think it is about USA and France. It is "just" business.
of course France it's like Darfour no doctor no drugs no hospital
so they can't send spurs staff they prefer risk a bigger injured when Tony will be tired when he'll play the Strasbourg Tournament
it's just business to think they can't find all in France because you can only examine this injury in USA

[Lady M]

I like the fact spurs want to see the players
they have millions involved with parker
when a player is hurt it is best that the team that has the most at stake doctors look at him

nothing against france I would say this to any player
it's better to travel Tony or the staff?
Tony will be tired and he can be injured because he's tired.

[saporvida]

google translator? for the above 2 posts....

[ducks]

it's better to travel Tony or the staff?
Tony will be tired and he can be injured because he's tired.
if he is that tired he can stay home

[Lady M]

In France a lot of basketball fans hate Spurs
they don't change with that

[ducks]

would the staff of the spurs be able to use the hospital equipment in france?

[mathbzh]

of course France it's like Darfour no doctor no drugs no hospital
so they can't send spurs staff they prefer risk a bigger injured when Tony will be tired when he'll play the Strasbourg Tournament
it's just business to think they can't find all in France because you can only examine this injury in USA

I agree with you it is a big problem for all NT.
The business thing is that SA don't want Tony to play with the French team.
They bring him back so they can do any test they want... put some pressure on.. uh sorry discuss with Tony... and then anounce that Tony injury is worse than expected and that he should not risk his career in the Euro. Tony spent his summer working with Chip. The Spurs are ready to repeat... end of story

[ducks]

In France a lot of basketball fans hate Spurs
they don't change with that
EVERYONE HATES THE SPURS ASK BSPN

[2centsworth]

I don't even know why he's allowed to play for the national team.

[mathbzh]

I don't even know why he's allowed to play for the national team.
The same could be said about Lebron, Melo, Kobe... Duncan (back in 2004)... the 1992 Dream Team

[Testing]

Why is Parker allowed to play and not Ginobili for the national team?

[Bruno]

I have nothing at all against Spurs being very careful with Parker. Spurs have spend tons of money on him and must protect their investment.

But you had to be coherent : if you don't trust French NT medical staff, you don't let Parker play with the NT or you send a Spurs' doctor in France to follow Parker when he plays with the NT or you send Spurs medical staff in France to look at Parker injury.

Asking Parker to go back in SA for 3 days is the worst thing to do because it creates unnecessary tiredness to Parker.

[Kori Ellis]

Spurs are very cautious about the health of their players. Tony is a $66M investment. It's not a bad thing that they care about him enough to make sure he's healthy.

And I don't think an extra roundtrip flight in early August is going to affect Tony come November. He's only 25.

[Lady M]

Why is Parker allowed to play and not Ginobili for the national team?
Manu win the Olympics games and for Argentina it's easy to qualifiy without Manu

Tony dream to play the olympics games and if spurs don't allow him to play for France it can be an other thing for leave the team after 2011

[Lady M]

Spurs are very cautious about the health of their players. Tony is a $66M investment. It's not a bad thing that they care about him enough to make sure he's healthy.

And I don't think an extra roundtrip flight in early August is going to affect Tony come November. He's only 25.
of course in november but France play before

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

I find that Spurs are stupid by acting like that.

Either you don't trust French NT medical staff and you don't let Parker play with the NT or you trust them and you don't call him back when Parker has a minor injury.

If Parker is tired or injured during the regular season or the playoffs, Spurs will be the ones to blame not French NT. Parker has a very busy summer and he will have two more Europe/USA travels just because Spurs medical staff don't trust French NT medical staff. Very clever...

Yeah, it's stupid for them to want to protect their 70 million dollar investment :rolleyes

Ever think that they made it a condition of even letting him play on the team that if he got hurt he had to come back to SA?

How the hell is SA going to be to blame for him being tired during the regular season? You aren't seriously trying to argue that one round trip flight between SA and Paris in August is going to be a justifiable excuse for him sucking during the regular season due to fatigue or injury, are you?

That's ridiculous. We're talking about a 14 hour flight in first class here, not flying around the world 3 times crammed into coach.

[Lady M]

Yeah, it's stupid for them to want to protect their 70 million dollar investment :rolleyes
I forgot the only important thing in USA is money
if you want to be pride of your country hide it if you are a foreigner.

[thispego]

Spurs are very cautious about the health of their players. Tony is a $66M investment. It's not a bad thing that they care about him enough to make sure he's healthy.

And I don't think an extra roundtrip flight in early August is going to affect Tony come November. He's only 25.
yeah no shit! what? does tony have to swim here?

[Bruno]

Yeah, it's stupid for them to want to protect their 70 million dollar investment :rolleyes

RIF.



Ever think that they made it a condition of even letting him play on the team that if he got hurt he had to come back to SA?

If it's the case, it's even more stupid.



How the hell is SA going to be to blame for him being tired during the regular season? You aren't seriously trying to argue that one round trip flight between SA and Paris in August is going to be a justifiable excuse for him sucking during the regular season due to fatigue or injury, are you?

That's ridiculous. We're talking about a 14 hour flight in first class here, not flying around the world 3 times crammed into coach.

The travel by itself isn't enough to justify fatigue or injury during the season but it's the addition of things : wedding + NT + travel.

The travel fatigue could have been easily avoided. It's stupid to add it to other fatigues without a good reason.

[BeerIsGood!]

I forgot the only important thing in USA is money
if you want to be pride of your country hide it if you are a foreigner.


That's just a dumb pot shot at Americans. The NBA is a business. The players have contracts and guaranteed money, and it would be absolutely stupid to just leave them out of sight and mind for 5 months out of the year with no thought to their physical well being. Who's the hand that feeds TP and his superstar lifestyle? The San Antonio Spurs. It's the Spurs who have the most to lose, so they are taking precautions with their investment. This is a non-story.


BTW, don't act like taking a flight to SA in luxury conditions is any sort of a huge drain on him. That's a ridiculous idea.

[thispego]

That's just a dumb pot shot at Americans. The NBA is a business. The players have contracts and guaranteed money, and it would be absolutely stupid to just leave them out of sight and mind for 5 months out of the year with no thought to their physical well being. Who's the hand that feeds TP and his superstar lifestyle? The San Antonio Spurs. It's the Spurs who have the most to lose, so they are taking precautions with their investment. This is a non-story.


BTW, don't act like taking a flight to SA in luxury conditions is any sort of a huge drain on him. That's a ridiculous idea.
exactly :bike:

[BeerIsGood!]

RIF.



If it's the case, it's even more stupid.



The travel by itself isn't enough to justify fatigue or injury during the season but it's the addition of things : wedding + NT + travel.

The travel fatigue could have been easily avoided. It's stupid to add it to other fatigues without a good reason.

You're right, it should have been easily avoided by TP not playing with the national team. The Spurs were gracious enough to not take exception with their multi-million dollar investment playing for his country, taking the right to look at him in the event of an injury is not out of line. Why is it that TP always gets some sort of injury while with the NT during the summer?

[saporvida]

Why is it that TP always gets some sort of injury while with the NT during the summer?

i don't know but him hurting his thumb(it was his thumb right?) last summer sent chills down my spine until i saw his performance in reg season and post season play. if his injuries are any indication of his improvements then by all means parker get hurt every summer but make sure your ass is healthy come training camp!

parker for mvp 2008! that is if duncan gets shafted again like he always does... DUNCAN will always be MVP!

[stewart]

this a bigger problem than only the tony's case. Even for the any team in any sport, all the pro-team are more and more thinking that playing with NT is a waste of time and a risk for the athletes they pay millions. football, rugby, basket-ball are the first sports touch by that and ask the question of what kind of future there is for olympics, world championship, european championship...
the players should put a line in their contract that say they can play for NT every time it's possible.
the team should be aware that if the player is a star, it's because he wins. If he wins he sell a lot of stuff with his name on.

[spursfan09]

I don't see what the big deal is. Tony got injured and the Spurs want to check him out. Its not like they are calling Tony to come back for nothing. I understand that the national team needs him, but so do the Spurs.

[ploto]

The Spurs leaned on all their players not to play this summer, but Tony still is. I would not be in the least bit surprised if they say this injury is too much for him to be able to play on.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

I forgot the only important thing in USA is money
if you want to be pride of your country hide it if you are a foreigner.

Uh, yeah. We're not talking about charity work here, we're talking about a pro team with a huge investment in a player. Quit being so simple minded.

Or are you just trying to hate on Americans? Because it's not like pro hoops players in Europe are getting paid or anything :rolleyes

[ShoogarBear]

Did I miss another thread about how he got injured? Or is this the first mention of it?

[mathbzh]

The same problem exists in Soccer with teams like Chelsea, Arsenal, Lyon... and probably Madrid, Barcelone, Milan... (even if I didn't have specific case in mind) ask their players not to play with the NT except for big games. But there is a FIFA (maybe UEFA?) rule saying that a player can be suspended for some games if he refuses a selection. The French coach used that rules with Makelele. This rule is not that bad IMO.

[mathbzh]

This soccer exemple is just there to prove this problem as nothing to do with the USA. It is just a business issue. You can't blame the Spurs for protecting their interest. But as Bruno said they could be more direct and just ask TP not to play with the French NT... Of course if the NBA wants to develop the european market it may not be the wisest decision.

[Bruno]

The Spurs were gracious enough to not take exception with their multi-million dollar investment playing for his country

:rolleyes

When Spurs signed Parker to his rookie contract, have they said that they won't allow him to play for his NT ? NO
When Spurs signed Parker to his $66M contract, have they said that they won't allow him to play for his NT ? NO

Spurs have invested a lot on money on Parker but they knew that he was French and the he will likely play for his NT. If Spurs want players who don't play during summers, they must sign American players and not international ones.

If Spurs don't want that international players plays for their NT, they should clearly tell them before signing a contract with them.

Spurs have a shitty attitude towards international players and their NT. Not letting Manu and Oberto playing with the Argentinean NT and acting with Parker like they do is just disgusting.

[ducks]

suns do not want diaw to play for france
it is not like the spurs are the only ones
mavs do not either

[mathbzh]

:rolleyes

When Spurs signed Parker to his rookie contract, have they said that they won't allow him to play for his NT ? NO
When Spurs signed Parker to his $66M contract, have they said that they won't allow him to play for his NT ? NO

Spurs have invested a lot on money on Parker but they knew that he was French and the he will likely play for his NT. If Spurs want players who don't play during summers, they must sign American players and not international ones.

If Spurs don't want that international players plays for their NT, they should clearly tell them before signing a contract with them.

Spurs have a shitty attitude towards international players and their NT. Not letting Manu and Oberto playing with the Argentinean NT and acting with Parker like they do is just disgusting.

What I learned from soccer is that in those situation it is all in the player hands (at least for the stars). If he really wants to play with his NT he can make his team understand that he would be REALLY unhappy not to play with his NT. Do you think the Mavs could really refuse this to Dirk?

Still I have one question: Why did the Spurs allowed Duncan to play with USA? Was he less important to the team that Gino or Oberto?

[Lady M]

Tony's dream is win a medal in olympic games with his friends of yhe NT (his best recall is the win with junior national team and he keep the trophee in his house)
Maybe a very bad decision for the futur after 2011
Tony said he never forgot and the spurs make like they want to kill Tony's dreams :(

[ehz33satx]

I find that Spurs are stupid by acting like that...

Spurs are stupid for investing millions of dollars in Tony Parker and then worrying about France keeping him from being hurt? The Spurs went out and hired Chip England to help Tony shot better. That's alot of time and energy given by both the Spurs and by Tony. I don't get why that is hard for you to understand.

[judaspriestess]

I forgot the only important thing in USA is money
if you want to be pride of your country hide it if you are a foreigner.


If Tony is all about "pride" for the country, then why is he in the NBA? Shouldn't he be in France full time?

This has nothing to do with France and the quality of its health care. Isn't France ranked better than the US as far as healthcare anyway?

In other words, he may be getting the best health care in France but for LEGAL reasons, he has to be checked out by US doctors. Its all formal legalities. If it where the other way around, France would do the same thing.
Be realistic.

[spursintpe]

It doesn't seem to be "over the top" for the Spurs to want their doctors to check out TP's injury. Not all countries have the same standards of medicine and they could just want some clarification of the injury.

Shouldn't think a round-trip flight from Europe would overly tire a 25-year old.

[temujin]

The Spurs are of course entitled to be worried about the ankles of Mr. Antony Parker.

They could do this 3 ways.

0) Do nothing and trust Parker and the staff of the french NT.

2) Send in a Doctor -and possibly an MRI guy on top- and use available medical equipment. As correctly suggested, France is not devoid of the most advanced and believe it or not San Antonio Texas is not the only place in the world where a proper diagnosis can be made. Then establish this diagnosis, talk to the physicians and to the french NT about it, and finally agree on the proper strategy.
Possibly, keep the Doctor there until the problem has been solved for good. This is what I would call the "reach-out", confidence-based attitude.

1) Call Mr. Parker in and have it examined at home. "We invested a lot of money in this guy etch etch etch (read above)". Legally impeccable.
As correctly stated (in french) by our friend here, whether you like it or not, this would be in obvious distrust, as it would be perceived, of the staff of the french NT.
The very same people that will call Parker's shots (literally) for > a month untill Euro 07 is over. Some of these people might like the SA Spurs. Some might not. None have legal obligations with the SA organization.

So what do you think would serve the interests of the SA Spurs the best?

[temujin]

It doesn't seem to be "over the top" for the Spurs to want their doctors to check out TP's injury. Not all countries have the same standards of medicine and they could just want some clarification of the injury.


Standards of medicine?
For a pro?

[temujin]

If Tony is all about "pride" for the country, then why is he in the NBA?

Because that's where the best world basketball players play.

Shouldn't he be in France full time?

You mean like Spanoulis in Grece? Who would not play for the best NBA team for ANY amount of money and rather be home?

This has nothing to do with France and the quality of its health care. Isn't France ranked better than the US as far as healthcare anyway?

France. And others.

In other words, he may be getting the best health care in France but for LEGAL reasons, he has to be checked out by US doctors. Its all formal legalities. If it where the other way around, France would do the same thing.
Be realistic.

Absolutely correct.
As I wrote above.
It's all legal.
too bad that none of the french NT staff has ANY legal constraints vs the SA Spurs.
No contract whatsoever.
They will actually decide where, when, how Mr. Parker will play.
For how many minutes, and in which conditions.

[judaspriestess]

Absolutely correct.
As I wrote above.
It's all legal.
too bad that none of the french NT staff has ANY legal constraints vs the SA Spurs.
No contract whatsoever.
They will actually decide where, when, how Mr. Parker will play.
For how many minutes, and in which conditions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady M





I forgot the only important thing in USA is money
if you want to be pride of your country hide it if you are a foreigner.


I am referring to LadyM's comments.

Mr. Parker signed to have those type of restrictions placed on him as far as health etc. It is a very big investment the Spurs or any organization places on its players and its a fair tradeoff to make and is fully understood to when contracts are signed. They cannot stop them from playing for their countries nor should they but if a player takes the risk and gets injured then technically its a breach of contract.

[sabar]

Tony's dream is win a medal in olympic games with his friends of yhe NT (his best recall is the win with junior national team and he keep the trophee in his house)
Maybe a very bad decision for the futur after 2011
Tony said he never forgot and the spurs make like they want to kill Tony's dreams :(No one told Tony to sign with an NBA team. If he really cared that much about pride then he would have stayed in France. And how exactly is pride better than greed (referring to your USA potshot)? Plus if the French aren't greedy either, why does Tony need $60 million, he should have signed for $0.01.

[Bruno]

Spurs are stupid for investing millions of dollars in Tony Parker and then worrying about France keeping him from being hurt?

RIF.
I've never say that.


I don't get why that is hard for you to understand.

Since you don't get it, I will try to explain it again with an example.

Someone spend a lot of money by buying a Ferrari.
Few times later, he said : "this car sucks, there is no space and it can't go on clay road. It sucks, I have spend a lot of money on it."
What will you say to him ? Something like that : "Are you an idiot ? You bought a Ferrari ! If you wanted a car able to go on clay road and with a lot of Space you should have bought a SUV, not a Ferrari."

Now the Spurs analogy :
Spurs have spend a lot of money on a French player like Parker.
Few times later, Spurs said : "this player wants to play every summer for his NT. It sucks, I have spend a lot of money on him."
Wat did I say to them ? Something like that : "Are you idiots ? You bought an international player ! If you wanted a player who doesn't play the summer, you should have gone after an American player, not an international one."

[temujin]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady M






I am referring to LadyM's comments.

Mr. Parker signed to have those type of restrictions placed on him as far as health etc. It is a very big investment the Spurs or any organization places on its players and its a fair tradeoff to make and is fully understood to when contracts are signed. They cannot stop them from playing for their countries nor should they but if a player takes the risk and gets injured then technically its a breach of contract.


Yes.
On the other hand, I am sure the 25 years old Mr. parker is NOT worried of a breach in his contract, after the ennieme NBA title, with an MVP seasoning on top.
I would dare imagining that at least 1/2 teams might be interested in Mr. parker' skills.
The point I was trying to make was probably too subtle.
I will say it frankly.
Parker is important to the french NT. I am sure that after this, they will be tempted to play him to death, if necessary, untill they get to the Olimpics.
It's money for them.
And if this means banging him up a bit -even QUITE a bit- well, it's none of their business.
No breach of any contract there.
All perfectly legal.

Just too bad, in case.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

My country's team (France) really sucks bad without Tony, it sucks that the big bad Spurs are making him come here for treatment. They should stand by and let him destroy his ankle all for the love of our country, the Spurs should eat the $70 million and let him focus on French basketball so maybe we can actually win something for once.

[picnroll]

So when is Parker going to agree that if he gets hurt playing for his national team the Spurs don't have to pay him?

[HJNTX]

Hmmm maybe the SPURS front office need to look closer to home for players ..

[ploto]

If they do not want to allow them to play for their national teams, then put it in their contracts. It is just interesting to see the 180 taken by the Spurs in the past couple of years.

[angel_luv]

Did I miss another thread about how he got injured? Or is this the first mention of it?

I saw this one when I was browsing through past pages.
http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=74799

[judaspriestess]

Yes.
On the other hand, I am sure the 25 years old Mr. parker is NOT worried of a breach in his contract, after the ennieme NBA title, with an MVP seasoning on top.
I would dare imagining that at least 1/2 teams might be interested in Mr. parker' skills.
The point I was trying to make was probably too subtle.
I will say it frankly.
Parker is important to the french NT. I am sure that after this, they will be tempted to play him to death, if necessary, untill they get to the Olimpics.
It's money for them.
And if this means banging him up a bit -even QUITE a bit- well, it's none of their business.
No breach of any contract there.
All perfectly legal.

Just too bad, in case.

I thought this was not about money for the French, I thought it was about national pride??

[itzsoweezee]

hey frenchies, no american gives a shit if the france national team sucks without tony. in other words, quit your crying.

[itzsoweezee]

If they do not want to allow them to play for their national teams, then put it in their contracts. It is just interesting to see the 180 taken by the Spurs in the past couple of years.


david stern won't allow it. i'm sure pretty much every american team would do it if that weren't the case.

[spursfan09]

For all we know maybe Parker is that hurt and doesn't want to play anymore, but wants the Spurs to say he can't.

[ehz33satx]

RIF.




Since you don't get it, I will try to explain it again with an example.

You bought an international player ! If you wanted a player who doesn't play the summer, you should have gone after an American player, not an international one."

[ehz33satx]

It's a dream of many international players to come play in the NBA. They come for the money AND the chance to play with the best basketball players in the world. Tony Parker chose to come play in the NBA and he says he is extremely proud to be playing for the San Antonio Spurs. If it was not for the Spurs having the best trainers and training to take Parker to such heights as winning NBA championships and a well deserved MVP trophy, you would not have the player he is today to lead your French team. Think of it that way Bruno.

[ehz33satx]

You provided the Ferrari, the Spurs just gave it better tires and super tuned it. If not for the Spurs investing heavily, he would be the same player he was years ago.

[JP le Requin]

You provided the Ferrari, the Spurs just gave it better tires and super tuned it. If not for the Spurs investing heavily, he would be the same player he was years ago.


i am agree with you and i am french!

TP has to be sure he is ok with his health...business is business in nba, i follow nba since 1993 and its always the same way, dont change it.
imagine spurs reveals Tp has more we thought???
i will be happy to get tp @ home than to play hurt...

aux français, arreter de dire qu'on aime pas les spurs, ca fait 14 ans que je les kiffe!!! et on est nombreux , les autres sont jaloux de leur succes

si tp est bléssé et bien que le staff des spurs les chek...a ma connaissance il est quand meme le meilleur staf medicale de la nba et ont TOUT le matos nécéssaire pour detecter toute anomalie et soigner...

[Bruno]

It's a dream of many international players to come play in the NBA. They come for the money AND the chance to play with the best basketball players in the world. Tony Parker chose to come play in the NBA and he says he is extremely proud to be playing for the San Antonio Spurs.

I don't see the link between what you said and what I said.
I just said that Spurs have chosen to go after international players and when a nba team does this choice, it had to accept that its players will play for their NT this summer.



If it was not for the Spurs having the best trainers and training to take Parker to such heights as winning NBA championships and a well deserved MVP trophy, you would not have the player he is today to lead your French team. Think of it that way Bruno.

Sure, if Parker is better now than 6 years ago, it's because great Spurs staff. It has nothing to do with Parker work ethic and a basketball player being better at 25 than at 19. :rolleyes
Spurs have done a great job with Parker but saying what you said is just wrong. Maybe you don't know that but French BB federation spend money on young players to have a good NT. They have a high school called INSEP where they work with best young French prospects. Parker has spend two years at the INSEP and always give them credits for what he is today. Is it fair to spend money on players to have a good NT and not to have them when they pan out ?

If it was not for the French BB federation spending money on Parker and working with him with a high level staff when he was 16/17 years old, you would not have the player he is today to lead our Spurs. Think of it that way ehz33satx.

[stéphane]

The funny thing in this thread is that for once manu's church and oberto's at a lesser extent can understand the problem. Only americans are arguing because they still don't get the NT thing like internationnal posters do. I stopped arguing about NTs about a year ago after TP broken finger.

[JPB]

.
Maybe you don't know that but French BB federation spend money on young players to have a good NT. They have a high school called INSEP where they work with best young French prospects. Parker has spend two years at the INSEP and always give them credits for what he is today. Is it fair to spend money on players to have a good NT and not to have them when they pan out ?

If it was not for the French BB federation spending money on Parker and working with him with a high level staff when he was 16/17 years old, you would not have the player he is today to lead our Spurs. Think of it that way ehz33satx.

You beat me to it, Bruno.
I was looking for someone to mention this in this thread. TP is a french federation product. He had his natural abilities and did his part but he did in the INSEP/international competitions environnment. That's what allowed him to catch scout's eyes.

Besides now that he has 3 NBA rings, one of his remaining goal is the olympics. Olympics are something that makes every athlet dream.

Don't forget that , if TP has very well acclimated to the NBA and the USA (thanks Eva), your native country, the one you grow up in, will always be special. Playing with his buddies, some of them the best he has) is something that allows him to change his air, find his roots back, speak french...His childhood friends, a part of his family is in France.

TP has always said he wanted to make history and FIBA comp., olympics are opportunities of doing so while he's still young. I don't think he'll play for France after 30, or even before. He doesn't want to have regrets at the end of his career. A basketball player career is pretty short.

You also have to know that NBA is not seen by so many people in france. It's on cable TV and if the majority of french people have heard about Tony Parker, few have seen him play.

PS : please some french posters, calm a bit down and don't turn this into a USA-France battle.

[timvp]

From skimming this thread, it looks like Bruno is destroying peeps. A mad Bruno is the wrong poster to mess with.

:smokin

[picnroll]

I find that Spurs are stupid by acting like that.

Either you don't trust French NT medical staff and you don't let Parker play with the NT or you trust them and you don't call him back when Parker has a minor injury.

If Parker is tired or injured during the regular season or the playoffs, Spurs will be the ones to blame not French NT. Parker has a very busy summer and he will have two more Europe/USA travels just because Spurs medical staff don't trust French NT medical staff. Very clever...[/QUOTE=Bruno]

[QUOTE=Bruno]:rolleyes

When Spurs signed Parker to his rookie contract, have they said that they won't allow him to play for his NT ? NO
When Spurs signed Parker to his $66M contract, have they said that they won't allow him to play for his NT ? NO

Spurs have invested a lot on money on Parker but they knew that he was French and the he will likely play for his NT. If Spurs want players who don't play during summers, they must sign American players and not international ones.

If Spurs don't want that international players plays for their NT, they should clearly tell them before signing a contract with them.

Spurs have a shitty attitude towards international players and their NT. Not letting Manu and Oberto playing with the Argentinean NT and acting with Parker like they do is just disgusting.


From skimming this thread, it looks like Bruno is destroying peeps. A mad Bruno is the wrong poster to mess with. :smokin

Destroying? Those are the weakest posts I've seen by a very good poster. Of course the Spurs are going to have Parker back here to assess his ankle injury, They don't know the French doctors from Kevorkian. They want to use their team of doctors they know and trust and their facitlities. There's even a chance if the Spurs paid an insurance poicy n his summer play, their doctors didn't look at him and some serious omplications occured the policy could be voided.

An across the Atlantic flight wiping out Parker and threatening his season. :lol. I know a 50 year old CEO of a large international compnay who hops around the globe on a constatnt basis logging18 hour work days who's prety spry on a daily basis. I'm pretty sure the 25 year old Parker can handle a premium business class flight sleeping all the way. Eva probably gives him a harder workout.

Spurs having a "shitty" attitude toward their international players? They publicly stated it was fine that Parker play this summer but when he turns 30 like Manu they will ask him to limit his play. Manu came out not wanting to play this year first. In all likelihood Spurs are just giving him a graceful way of declining. They even said they expected and endorsed Manu playing in the Olympics.

When it comes to international play and France Bruno loses his objectivity big time and posts some weak shit

[picnroll]

Two questioins for Bruno;

1. When Parker broke his finger last summer wasn't it first not recognized. Even after it was recognized didn't Parker initially try to play? Wasn't it Parker who decided it was too painful to try, not the French doctors telling him he shouldn't. Wasn't it detrmined that if Parker had tried to play he risked further damage and the finger not healing straight?

2. Why is the French basketball federation not paying Diaw's insurance. Why isn't Diaw paying his insurance? On top of his salary are the Suns expected to pay the insurance to let him play for another team?

[jéjé]

that's really suck !!

I hope that tp come back to the tournament of strasbourg !!!

[jéjé]

picnroll :

tp wants to play the last year , the french doctors would put a splint on his finger . It was tony who wants to play at this time the coaching staff says nothing .

2° The french basketball federation doesn't pay the insurance because they aren't rich . The basket ballisn't the first sport in french ( soccer , bike, and the swimming especially with manaudou) . They search the best for pay the insurrance but maybe diaw would pay like nowitsky for the Deutschland

[ArgSpursFan]

I find that Spurs are stupid by acting like that.

Either you don't trust French NT medical staff and you don't let Parker play with the NT or you trust them and you don't call him back when Parker has a minor injury.

If Parker is tired or injured during the regular season or the playoffs, Spurs will be the ones to blame not French NT. Parker has a very busy summer and he will have two more Europe/USA travels just because Spurs medical staff don't trust French NT medical staff. Very clever...

Actually you could be the stupid one is you don´t spend just a flying ticket from France to S.A to make sure your U$60 M star Point Guard,Finals MVP don´t need special treatment for that enjury,or to find out if there´s something else wrong in there.
Plus,you know Nat teams will try to keep their best players even if they ´re are seriusly injuried.
Bottom line:do spurs trust France NT docs?NO!!,and they shouldn´t.Same with the Arg NT doctors or Slovenian NT Docs.etc.etc.

[Bruno]

Of course the Spurs are going to have Parker back here to assess his ankle injury, They don't know the French doctors from Kevorkian. They want to use their team of doctors they know and trust and their facitlities.

Do you realize that it was a minor injury, rehab was going well and that French NT staff has send MRI results to Spurs.
They could have trust a little French NT medical staff or send a doctor to France to check everything. Instead of that, Pop has called Parker and ask him to go back in SA.



An across the Atlantic flight wiping out Parker and threatening his season. :lol.

You can laugh as much you want but travel + jet lag isn't the best thing for a professional athlete. Parker should be back in France on August 7th or 8th and French NT will have a game on August 10th.
And last summer, Parker was in SA while his finger is injured and wanted to go to japan to cheer French NT. Spurs staff have said no to that and one of the reason given to Parker was the tiredness due to the travel.



Spurs having a "shitty" attitude toward their international players? They publicly stated it was fine that Parker play this summer but when he turns 30 like Manu they will ask him to limit his play. Manu came out not wanting to play this year first. In all likelihood Spurs are just giving him a graceful way of declining. They even said they expected and endorsed Manu playing in the Olympics.


So Spurs let players plays with their NT as much as they want ?
It's the first time that I've read that.
I remember that one summer, Parker has had to go to SA just to convince Pop to let him play with the NT.
Pop hates that Spurs players play with their NT the summer, it's a fact.
When a player want to go with his NT has has to negotiate with Spurs staff. Spurs staff act like they are doing them a favor by letting them playing with their NT. Shitty attitude.

[mathbzh]

2° The french basketball federation doesn't pay the insurance because they aren't rich . The basket ballisn't the first sport in french ( soccer , bike, and the swimming especially with manaudou) . They search the best for pay the insurrance but maybe diaw would pay like nowitsky for the Deutschland

+1

Some people here should realise that in France Basketball is a minor Sport.
Parker is a Star. But not because he is an NBA player... only because:

- He is a French living the American Dream.
- He is the top paid French Sportsman.
- He married a Star.

But most French never saw him play with the Spurs.
The French NT games are diffused not on national TV (only cable) unless we play the Finals (we are in the same situation for other "minor" sports like handball or volleyball). Pietrus, Petro, Gelabale, Turiaf... even Diaw are almost unknown to the average French citizen.
In the early 90s BB was much more popular (thanks Jordan) here.
Nowdays it is hard for the French Federation. Our clubs don't have money (only small cities who can't afford a soccer team try to build good basketball teams) and all our top players are in the NBA, Spain or Italy.

With the golden generation coming in France there is a chance basketball become a major sports in France. But it will not happen without a great performance during the Olympics when all the media are focused on Sport.
Without Parker, Diaw... (Batum when he will play in the NBA) it will not happen and Basket will stay a minor sport in France.

That is why the French Federation can be really upset. They spent a lot of money on young players. France is becoming an important country in basketball. And at this exact moment... the NBA (Spurs with Parker, Suns with Diaw...) make them understand that they are wasting their money.
1 million $ for the NBA is nothing... for the French Federation it is a lot of money.

The Spurs always complained about being a small market... but have French market available. Let Parker win a gold medal with France in the next Olympics and you will have 60 millions new Spurs fans (well maybe not that much :spin) . It happened with Douillet and Judo, it happened with Manaudou and Swimming, it happened with Handball ("les bronzés"). There is not reason it doesn't work with basketball.

Of course I understand and respect the Spurs decision. But I also think it is not the smartest one.

To finish:
- If the Spurs don't want Parker to play with France they should just tell him and stop acting like a little pain in the ankle means the end of Parker career.
- I still don't understand the difference between Lebron playing for the USA and Parker for France. Maybe the USA should go back to a team made with NCAA players.

[ArgSpursFan]

Do you realize that it was a minor injury, rehab was going well and that French NT staff has send MRI results to Spurs.
They could have trust a little French NT medical staff or send a doctor to France to check everything. Instead of that, Pop has called Parker and ask him to go back in SA.
.

the only way to find out how bad it is,is with the S.A doctors Looking at the injury it self,not just with a MRI results.
You can´t find out what kind of inflamation is in the area if you don´t look at the ancle it self,in order to make a diagnostic.

[Bruno]

Two questioins for Bruno;

1. When Parker broke his finger last summer wasn't it first not recognized. Even after it was recognized didn't Parker initially try to play? Wasn't it Parker who decided it was too painful to try, not the French doctors telling him he shouldn't. Wasn't it detrmined that if Parker had tried to play he risked further damage and the finger not healing straight?

Parker finger broken wasn't diagnostic after the game because French NT was in china without X Rays. They had to travel the next day and when they arrived in Japan, they had X Rays and French NT staff has made the same diagnostic than Spurs staff later in SA. French doctors have never said to Parker that he should try to play with his injured finger.



2. Why is the French basketball federation not paying Diaw's insurance. Why isn't Diaw paying his insurance? On top of his salary are the Suns expected to pay the insurance to let him play for another team?

You're way off.
Diaw's case is very complicate.
To sum up, his insurance contract with Phoenix exclude back injuries and Phoenix ask that his insurance contract with French NT cover back injuries.
For the moment France NT is still working with Phoenix on what kind of insurance contract Phoenix want for Diaw's back.

[BeerIsGood!]

From skimming this thread, it looks like Bruno is destroying peeps. A mad Bruno is the wrong poster to mess with.

:smokin

considering the source, that may be the dumbest thing I've read in a while

[mathbzh]

the only way to find out how bad it is,is with the S.A doctors Looking at the injury it self,not just with a MRI results.
You can´t find out what kind of inflamation is in the area if you don´t look at the ancle it self,in order to make a diagnostic.

And no doctor in France can do this? (There I don't speak of the NT doctors)
Do you realize that Ronaldo injured knee was healed in France (in a time Ronaldo was the soccer biggest Star). If the real Madrid can trust French doctors, why not the Spurs?

[ArgSpursFan]

And no doctor in France can do this? (There I don't speak of the NT doctors)
Do you realize that Ronaldo injured knee was healed in France (in a time Ronaldo was the soccer biggest Star). If the real Madrid can trust French doctors, why not the Spurs?

yes they can.But will they tell the spurs the whole true about it??????
I wouldn´t put my hands on fire for no Doctor´s diagnostic with all the interest behind it.Parker is a key player for France and they´ll try to keep him even if he is seriusly injured.

[mathbzh]

yes they can.But will they tell the spurs the whole true about it??????
I wouldn´t put my hands on fire for no Doctor´s diagnostic with all the interest behind it.Parker is a key player for France and they´ll try to keep him even if he is seriusly injured.

You are wrong about the doctor mind. If they are not in the NT staff they will do the best in the player interest and not take the team into consideration. Of course you should not trust the NT medical staff complitely.

But once again the problem is not that the Spurs don't trust French doctor. It is that they don't want their international players to play with their NT.

[mathbzh]

The funny thing is that the Spurs are not so carefull with their player health when they let Duncan play half a season on one leg :rolleyes

I stop there. I will still be a Spurs fan. It is just sad to imagine we may never see Diaw and Parker together wearing a blue jersey.
We will probably have a few more years of Roanne (population 36000) vs. Vichy ( population 26000) games in the French ProA :cry ( nothing against these cities... just the sign that basketball is a minor sport in France)

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

The funny thing in this thread is that for once manu's church and oberto's at a lesser extent can understand the problem. Only americans are arguing because they still don't get the NT thing like internationnal posters do. I stopped arguing about NTs about a year ago after TP broken finger.

The funny thing is all the french folks on here whining about this.

The French national team isn't covering cost of treatment or insurance for Tony - the Spurs are.

That fact alone is all the justification the Spurs need to bring him back, and all of you guys just need to deal with it.

[OM_fever]

I've never been a big poster & would have prefer not to post about the french NT but I can't help when reading those comments...

You have to understand that in Europe (in reality everywhere except the US)it's really important to play for your country. We have the same issue with football team not wanting their star players to participate. But all players want to represent their countries. Not only because of patriotism (I don't see it at really strong in the majority of european countries) but mainly because it's where we can make the biggest match, have the biggest emotion...

As a french, I'm not really keen to sing our national hymn, but when France won the football world cup, I was like crying in front of my TV...

And not to forget that the players know each other for long time, playing in junior together...

The main arguments here are mainly: we pay so we have all the rights to do so. I can't really argue with this but to play with your national team is not a question of money but more of proudness...

I must admit that I'm not totally clear because it's hard to express those feelings, especially for someone like me who is not a big patriot (I can't stand blind thinking & simply obey to the order). But believe me, it's important for all players to represent their countries, even if there is risk on top of that...

Last point: a lot of players beneficiate from playing with their NT. They get experience & compete with high caliber player. Do you really think TP would be that good without having played for the French national team? Don't you think as well that it's normal when you have benefitiated from the national funds (INSEP - National sport institute) to give something back...

If you stick to your opinion, fine, but don't complain to see the best sportsmen in the US not playing for their country...

[temujin]

the only way to find out how bad it is,is with the S.A doctors Looking at the injury it self,not just with a MRI results.
You can´t find out what kind of inflamation is in the area if you don´t look at the ancle it self,in order to make a diagnostic.

ReallY?
How surprising.
Woulldn't be easier to send someone?

[ducks]

ReallY?
How surprising.
Woulldn't be easier to send someone?
do you want to send all the medical equipment to?

[temujin]

And no doctor in France can do this? (There I don't speak of the NT doctors)
Do you realize that Ronaldo injured knee was healed in France (in a time Ronaldo was the soccer biggest Star). If the real Madrid can trust French doctors, why not the Spurs?

Ronaldo's knee was first DESTROYED in france (November 1999 first surgery).
Saillant, the guy that did the damage.
This -and poor rehabilitation- led to an extremely serious injury, April 2000.
Another surgery, a lucky one this time, in France.

It took two and half years for Ronaldo to recover.

I know the details of the whole thing.

[temujin]

do you want to send all the medical equipment to?

Are you an expert in medical equipment?
Most are sent from JAPAN to all over the world, including France.

[ducks]

do spur doctors have permission to use their equipment?

[temujin]

do spur doctors have permission to use their equipment?


If confidence is established, why wouldn't they?

[ducks]

I would not let people use my expenisive equipment

[Testing]

Exactly...what's the difference between Lebron/Duncan, etc playing for the US team? Same thing. I highly doubt that they had to go an negotiate with their coaches and beg them to let them play for the usa team.

[ehz33satx]

[If it was not for the French BB federation spending money on Parker and working with him with a high level staff when he was 16/17 years old, you would not have the player he is today to lead our Spurs. Think of it that way ehz33satx.[/QUOTE]

Honestly, I dont give a damn about your French NT. Have you ever thought of it that way? I read on here that basketball is a minor sport in France. SO why are all you frenchies all up in arms over having Parker play there every year. Why not find some other young players to take his place. Maybe if Parker had stayed overseas and continued just playing for France instead of coming over to the U.S.A. signing a contract and taking millions of dollars to play in the NBA you could justify all your innane comments. When Tony came to the Spurs he was made a better player. Like I said, I don't give a damn about your French NT. Someone says on here Bruno is destroying other peoples comments? I have not seen shit from you but someone who is crying about NATIONAL PRIDE! The NBA is a business and Tony is making millions playing here. We don't want a hurt Tony Parker missing any playing time for the Spurs just so you Frenchies can hold your chins up with pride. Screw that.

[T Park]

Look French, the Spurs gave him a huge contract. He works for the Spurs, he makes his living from the Spurs, and the only reason hes famous, outside of marrying a tv star, is BECAUSE of the Spurs.

He owes EVERYTHING to Pop and the Spurs, PERIOD.

So put down the damn cheese and recognize that france and their team are SECONDARY when it comes to the PRO team.


Theres gonna be a day hes fucking around with these meaningless NT games and blow his knee out, and then the Spurs are really fucked.

Gonna have to teather these mfers to their damn homes and the practice facilities in the damn summer I guess.

[Kori Ellis]

I just have to say there's a lot of stupidity in this thread.

For those saying players shouldn't play for their national teams ...

Do you think if he didn't play for NT, he'd be sitting home in a glass cage waiting til his next official time playing for the Spurs?

No, he'd be playing basketball SOMEWHERE. Pro basketball players don't just sit in the offseason, they play basketball.

So, he'd be just as likely to sprain an ankle playing for France as he would playing in a charity tournament, a pickup game, an offseason league or camp (there's 60 NBA players playing in Tim Grgurich's camp in Vegas right now - should they be banned from playing there too? .. it's not NBA sanctioned), or at the Spurs practice facility.

And as for the people in an uproar that he is flying home to get healthy, that's dumb too.

He's an investment for the Spurs, as I said early in this thread, so of course they are going to want him seen and treated by their doctors.

[diego]

at first i thought some of the french posters were overreacting to this (its just a couple days ), but now that some US posters are overreacting and saying parker is nothing without the spurs, I'm going to side with the french posters- it should have been easier to send a doctor, and bottom line no matter how much any player makes, the NBA just like every other pro league has an agreement with FIBA to release players for international competition- what the players decide and what a fan thinks of their decision is another story.

[Bruno]

I have not seen shit from you but someone who is crying about NATIONAL PRIDE! .

:rolleyes
Either my English is really bad or you have some serious reading comprehension troubles.
I've never speak about national pride in this thread. In fact when I find that national pride with people saying "I'm proud to be French or I'm proud to be American" is a very stupid thing. You can be proud of what you do and not of what you are.

And what ST posters think about French NT is worthless.
The only point of view about French NT that counts is Parker's one. Tony likes to play with French NT and you had to accept it even if you think that NT are garbage.

[temujin]

I would not let people use my expenisive equipment

1) In France, health care is mostly public.
So MY applies to a limited number of cases.
Precisely those that you would go to in such cases.
Alternatively, you could ask favours.

I ALWAYS find it amazing how many hospital doors open up immediately when I say " I am a collegue".

It's just a matter of confidence.

Confidence makes life so much easier.

[ehz33satx]

Ok maybe I am over reacting and I apologize for that.

[temujin]

I don't see any stupidity in here.

In fact, all this is very instructive.

Talking business, where was Mr. Parker before 19?
Whose investment was he?
Did the people that invest money in him get any return?
Basketball being a team sport, who payed for Parker's teammate, just to provide a team whre he could shine and be noticed?
Who payed the coaches, doctors, salaries and the rest of the crew?

Explain to me, please, how any NBA team is putting money to raise and grow the next Tony Parker. Or Dirk Novitzki, or the Milicics or Ginobilis.

Look, guys, the next Parker is 12, right now. He might be in need of some education, health care etch.
Pricy stuff.

There are 1000 of them, actually.

Only one will make it.

How do you know the 999 to drop?

You wouldn't waste any pro money on anybody bound to failure, will you?

Please, tell me how any NBA team KNOWS who exactly that 12 years old is.

They don't.
They let the school system in the US, and PRIVATELY owned teams in the national systems of rest of the world do the job.
All they ask is get back their GOOD PRODUCTS every other year or so.

I think it's a fair deal.

[ArgSpursFan]

I say Parker should play for France.NO questions about it.
But,Do the spurs have the right to take a look at that ancle too?'??Hell yes.Plus knowing that the spurs are not gonna improve on the roster this off season,they´ll will want Duncan,Parker,Manu and Bowen 110% phisically this coming season.
I would think the same if it was Manu or Oberto who were injuried.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

I've never been a big poster & would have prefer not to post about the french NT but I can't help when reading those comments...

You have to understand that in Europe (in reality everywhere except the US)it's really important to play for your country. We have the same issue with football team not wanting their star players to participate. But all players want to represent their countries. Not only because of patriotism (I don't see it at really strong in the majority of european countries) but mainly because it's where we can make the biggest match, have the biggest emotion...

As a french, I'm not really keen to sing our national hymn, but when France won the football world cup, I was like crying in front of my TV...

And not to forget that the players know each other for long time, playing in junior together...

The main arguments here are mainly: we pay so we have all the rights to do so. I can't really argue with this but to play with your national team is not a question of money but more of proudness...

I must admit that I'm not totally clear because it's hard to express those feelings, especially for someone like me who is not a big patriot (I can't stand blind thinking & simply obey to the order). But believe me, it's important for all players to represent their countries, even if there is risk on top of that...

Last point: a lot of players beneficiate from playing with their NT. They get experience & compete with high caliber player. Do you really think TP would be that good without having played for the French national team? Don't you think as well that it's normal when you have benefitiated from the national funds (INSEP - National sport institute) to give something back...

If you stick to your opinion, fine, but don't complain to see the best sportsmen in the US not playing for their country...

Dude, we all get that playing on the national team is important. Please excuse the idiots who don't understand.

At the same time, you and the other French people on this thread need to knock off the outrage about him coming back here for treatment.

He's a 70 million dollar investment for the Spurs, they are the ones on the hook for the tab for his medical bills (not team France), and as such they should (and do) have the right to determine where he gets treatment.

Quit with the Euro inferiority complex/snobby American crap and look at it from a business perspective, because as much as you don't like it, that's the context in which the decision to bring him back here for treatment was made.

[JPB]

I don't see any stupidity in here.

In fact, all this is very instructive.

Talking business, where was Mr. Parker before 19?
Whose investment was he?
Did the people that invest money in him get any return?
Basketball being a team sport, who payed for Parker's teammate, just to provide a team whre he could shine and be noticed?
Who payed the coaches, doctors, salaries and the rest of the crew?

Explain to me, please, how any NBA team is putting money to raise and grow the next Tony Parker. Or Dirk Novitzki, or the Milicics or Ginobilis.

Look, guys, the next Parker is 12, right now. He might be in need of some education, health care etch.
Pricy stuff.

There are 1000 of them, actually.

Only one will make it.

How do you know the 999 to drop?

You wouldn't waste any pro money on anybody bound to failure, will you?

Please, tell me how any NBA team KNOWS who exactly that 12 years old is.

They don't.
They let the school system in the US, and PRIVATELY owned teams in the national systems of rest of the world do the job.
All they ask is get back their GOOD PRODUCTS every other year or so.

I think it's a fair deal.

Yes.

That's a major difference between US sport and many other countries sport. In basketball, soccer or other disciplines in Europe or south america..., teams have young sections were they developp young promising players. Some of them will become pro, some won't (they all receive education anyway in the process).
It's the only source of players and it represents a significant cost, specially if you consider only a minority will be valuable players.


In the US, you have college sports in wich pro teams can choose through drafts. They don't spend any money developping players before they became pro.

It's hard to define who's more owning to the other. Should TP not have benificiated from the federal center, would have he been the player he is ? Would have he made the NBA and help Spurs get 3 titles ? Maybe, maybe not...

On the other side, would he not have played for the spurs, would he be the player he is now, a player who can lift french NT and help developping basketball in France ? Maybe, maybe not.

It's a game of give and take and gratitude. I think it's a good think that TP with all his successes still wants to play for his country. Everybody should approve that.

And yes, he could get injured in many other situations during summer.

[Slomo]

Yes.

That's a major difference between US sport and many other countries sport. In basketball, soccer or other disciplines in Europe or south america..., teams have young sections were they developp young promising players. Some of them will become pro, some won't (they all receive education anyway in the process).
It's the only source of players and it represents a significant cost, specially if you consider only a minority will be valuable players.


In the US, you have college sports in wich pro teams can choose through drafts. They don't spend any money developping players before they became pro.

It's hard to define who's more owning to the other. Should TP not have benificiated from the federal center, would have he been the player he is ? Would have he made the NBA and help Spurs get 3 titles ? Maybe, maybe not...

On the other side, would he not have played for the spurs, would he be the player he is now, a player who can lift french NT and help developping basketball in France ? Maybe, maybe not.

It's a game of give and take and gratitude. I think it's a good think that TP with all his successes still wants to play for his country. Everybody should approve that.

And yes, he could get injured in many other situations during summer.This is a very good post.

TP is who he is because of the investment of the French Basketball/Athletic program first and a product of the Spurs system second for the very simple reason that he would never have been drafted without the first part.

To those of you who argue the whole thing through money only, I say have a look at how much countries invest in young athletes in order to produce/discover talents like TP. The Spurs have it easy they have the luxury to invest in a proven product.

Oh and btw, the only return on the French athletic programs' investment is their athletes playing for the NT. I hope we can all agree that the Spurs' return on investment is much better. FIBA or the national association or even the club they are playing for do not receive a dime in return when their players decide to go play in the NBA - I don't really care for this but can understand the frustration of some teams to lose an assets they have nurtured for years (without any strings attached I may add).

As for the recent medical situation, I believe their are some other good options that could be used, but the current one is also not bad - I would gladly agree to commute to SA every week for work, if I was guaranteed a business class ticket - First class is a lot more comfortable so I'm sure TP will be fine :)

[temujin]

Dude, we all get that playing on the national team is important. Please excuse the idiots who don't understand.

At the same time, you and the other French people

Thank you for the french.
I am not.
Unfortunately.

on this thread need to knock off the outrage about him coming back here for treatment.

He's a 70 million dollar investment for the Spurs, they are the ones on the hook for the tab for his medical bills (not team France), and as such they should (and do) have the right to determine where he gets treatment.

Quit with the Euro inferiority complex/snobby American crap and look at it from a business perspective, because as much as you don't like it, that's the context in which the decision to bring him back here for treatment was made.

Read Slomo and JPB.

They got it.

[timvp]

This thread has some extreme takes on each side. I think the truth lies more in the middle.

First of all, if the Spurs really wanted to they could send their doctors/trainers to France and they could have given Parker the same diagnoses and treatment. The US doesn't have any secret sprained ankle machines or anything. And France is far from a backwoods country.

Why don't the Spurs do that? Probably a combination of things. It'd probably cost more to send a doctor and a trainer there than to bring Parker here. The Spurs probably want to avoid having the French doctors looking over their shoulder while the French coach whispers to Parker that he's off the team if he doesn't play. Removing Parker from the situation is the cheaper and easier option. But as far as what makes the most sense, I'd agree that it'd make the most sense in the broad picture send the medical personnel to France. It'd make even more sense to send someone with Parker from the beginning to make sure he treats his injuries properly.

As far as the Spurs making Parker, that's BS. Parker was already damn good when he got to San Antonio. That'd be like saying Argentina didn't have a hand in producing Manu. These two guys are products of their respective country. France's youth basketball programs are even better than the youth programs in the US. The US is trying to catch up and uses France as one of the top models. Argentina is another example of a country who knows how to develop young players. Without the French youth basketball program, there'd be no Parker. Without Parker, there'd be none of the last three championships. So an American trying to be arrogant in this regard is pretty lame.

I also agree that the countries that develop these players get screwed when they get so good that their pro teams don't want them to play for their country. Do you think France spent money on Parker so that he could go to the US and forget all about them? Where I start to differ on this point is when people start blaming the Spurs for decisions regarding these players.

Manu and Oberto could have played with their NT if they wanted to. The Spurs advised them against it but there's nothing holding them back. And really, I don't think those two guys wanted to. Even if Argentina doesn't qualify this summer, there are other times and ways to qualify and they are almost a lock to qualify one way or another. But it make sense for when the Argentina media asks Manu or Oberto why they aren't playing, instead of telling them that they don't want to -- it's easier to just say the Spurs said no. When the truth is they could play if they really wanted to. Oberto was a free agent. He could have just played and then signed ... or gone to another team that would have no problem with him playing.

And that leads me to a thought about the Parker situation that I haven't seen anyone bring up. Doesn't anyone think that Parker could be behind his trip back to the US? I think it's entirely possible. Sure he loves his NT but no pro player likes playing in these meaningless preseason games and their pseudo training camps. By flying back to the US, Parker doesn't have to go to the two-a-days and can skip the boring part until it becomes closer to the time the real games begin. To think that Parker was a helpless pawn in this is underestimating Parker.

And as far as I remember, Finger-Gate happened differently than I'm reading in this thread. Parker hurt his finger. The French diagnosed it as a jammed finger. Then as a sprain. And then when the Spurs found out that there was actually a break in the finger and the French wanted him to play anyways, they got pissed. The French wanted him to put a splint on it and play. The Spurs said, and rightly so, that if Parker re-injures the finger, a three week injury could turn into a three month injury.

I really think the Spurs are fine with Parker playing for his NT. They just want to make sure he's being treated correctly, especially after last summer's Finger-Gate. That said, the Spurs could be more proactive as far as sending some personnel with Parker to make sure he's being treated properly for any medical conditions that may arise. They had a trainer staying with Mahinmi last year. I'm sure the bus ride over to Paris wouldn't have cost too much.

[ShoogarBear]

First of all, if the Spurs really wanted to they could send their doctors/trainers to France and they could have given Parker the same diagnoses and treatment. The US doesn't have any secret sprained ankle machines or anything. And France is far from a backwoods country.

Why don't the Spurs do that? Probably a combination of things. It'd probably cost more to send a doctor and a trainer there than to bring Parker here. The Spurs probably want to avoid having the French doctors looking over their shoulder while the French coach whispers to Parker that he's off the team if he doesn't play. Removing Parker from the situation is the cheaper and easier option. But as far as what makes the most sense, I'd agree that it'd make the most sense in the broad picture send the medical personnel to France. It'd make even more sense to send someone with Parker from the beginning to make sure he treats his injuries properly.
I doubt that the Spurs have a physican whose full-time job is to just cover the Spurs. They are orthopedic surgeons with practices who see a lot of other patients, whom the Spurs have contracted with. As such, they can't just close up shop and fly out to France on for a non-emergency.

Also, it's unlikely that they have licenses to practice in France, so any test they want to make or treatments they'd wnat to give would have to be done by a licensed French physician.

[waly.mg]

The same thing again:

Bowen can play for USA
But not the internationals for they countries

[ducks]

The same thing again:

Bowen can play for USA
But not the internationals for they countries
bowen is not playing this summer :bang :bang :bang

[phxspurfan]

The same thing again:

Bowen can play for USA
But not the internationals for they countries


Bowen would have been cut from Team USA anyway. Everyone knows they asked him to feign like they wanted a non-high-flying-big-dunking-showboating-grandstanding-i-wont-play-defense-because-im-too-good-for-it-and-should-be-on-the-and-1-mixtape-and-make-rap-videos-and-thusly-sell-overpriced-shoes star. Bowen is USA's practice b*tch. That's all.

Duncan, on the other hand, when asked to play for USA, had Pop sitting on the sidelines, watching his minutes like a hawk and pulling him as early as possible in every summer game.

[timvp]

I doubt that the Spurs have a physican whose full-time job is to just cover the Spurs. They are orthopedic surgeons with practices who see a lot of other patients, whom the Spurs have contracted with. As such, they can't just close up shop and fly out to France on for a non-emergency. Exactly.

Unless they were paid a nice amount of money to do so.


Also, it's unlikely that they have licenses to practice in France, so any test they want to make or treatments they'd wnat to give would have to be done by a licensed French physician.A US doctor can't treat someone who lives in the US if they are on foreign soil? Interesting.

But even so, I'm sure they can monitor the taking of the x-rays and MRIs and can help interpret the results. And treatments for an ankle sprain I assume can be administered even by a foreigner. Like ice, heat, massage and the such. But it's possible that I am wrong and they'd be forced to hire a French trainer to do the dirty work.

[SpursWoman]

I doubt that the Spurs have a physican whose full-time job is to just cover the Spurs. They are orthopedic surgeons with practices who see a lot of other patients,


I see Dr. Saenz ... he's awesome. :tu :)

[ShoogarBear]

Exactly.

Unless they were paid a nice amount of money to do so. If you paid a physician $1M a year just to take care of the Spurs, you'd end up with a wealthy doctor out of practice. These guys need to see hundreds of cases per year to stay on their game. I wouldn't want to be taken care of by somebody who only saw 10-20 injuries a year.

Here's something I didn't know about until a few years ago: there's a neurosurgeon who's one of the team MD's for an NFL team. The team is much richer than the Spurs and obviously the NFL injury rate is much higher.

How much does he get as a retainer from the NFL team? Nothing. In fact, he pays them a fee to be able to say he's a team doctor. (He does get paid when he actually has to take care of somebody.) Not only that, he doesn't even live in the same city as the team. Every Sunday, he flies halfway across the country to walk the sidelines.

Obviously, it increases his profile and generates business for him to be able to say he's a team doctor for an NFL team. I don't know if this is specific to this one team or if it's true for all NFL teams or pro sports in general.



A US doctor can't treat someone who lives in the US if they are on foreign soil? Interesting.Depends on the country. You can probably go to many underdeveloped countries and practice with little or perfunctory paperwork. But I'm pretty sure Europe's regulations are similar to ours; you need to be licensed by the appropriate state agency, which may require additional examinations unless there's some kind of reciprocity agreement. Similarly, a doc from the Europe or even Canada can't just come here and hang up a shingle.

The one exception may be if you're in an embassy, but even then you need to have some kind of State Department clearance.

Now, when the whole U.S. team travels, I'm sure they have a doc who goes with them to oversee things, but they can only perform consultative services.



But even so, I'm sure they can monitor the taking of the x-rays and MRIs and can help interpret the results. Sure, although with digital technology, that can all be done remotely.



And treatments for an ankle sprain I assume can be administered even by a foreigner. Like ice, heat, massage and the such. But it's possible that I am wrong and they'd be forced to hire a French trainer to do the dirty work.I'm almost 100% sure trainers have much fewer restrictions, since I've never heard of a team having to use other countries' trainers when they travel. They may have to get clearances in order to perform injections.

[Slomo]

Shoog,

Your explanation about the availability of the physician being part of the decision process in this case makes a lot of sense (and some of the other points too).

The part that I don't like is your presumption of legal/administrative restrictions for an US doctor to examine his/her patient abroad (which doesn't mean it's not true). In my opinion even supervising his/her patient's treatment shouldn't be a problem. At the same time I will admit I have no idea how these things work in real life.

Just a thought. Wouldn't something like that become the patient's decision. In all modern medical system the patient has the ultimate approval/decision right regarding his/her treatment. So could it apply in a situation like this or are the patient's choices limited to the locally certified medical staff? (do I even make sense?)

[Admidave50]

Way too much drama about this!

I'm pretty sure that if you travel 4 hours (go and back) by bus+train+subway, fighting for a seat, to go to your office that it will be more tiring than flying in 1st class and follow your personal driver...

[ShoogarBear]

Shoog,

Your explanation about the availability of the physician being part of the decision process in this case makes a lot of sense (and some of the other points too).

The part that I don't like is your presumption of legal/administrative restrictions for an US doctor to examine his/her patient abroad (which doesn't mean it's not true). In my opinion even supervising his/her patient's treatment shouldn't be a problem. At the same time I will admit I have no idea how these things work in real life.

Just a thought. Wouldn't something like that become the patient's decision. In all modern medical system the patient has the ultimate approval/decision right regarding his/her treatment. So could it apply in a situation like this or are the patient's choices limited to the locally certified medical staff? (do I even make sense?)It has nothing to do with a doctor being able to examine the patient and render an opinion. That's up to the patient.

But a US doctor wouldn't have the authority to get things done like order an X-Ray or MRI or blood tests. S/he'd have to have a French (in this case) physician do it. Also the US doc couldn't prescribe medications (maybe they could if they brought them along with them, would depend on the regulations) or do any procedures without a license. What would happen is the French doc would ask the US doc for an expert opinion (i.e., a consultation) and work in collaboration with them, but the "official" doc would be the person with the license (i.e.,the French one).

One other administrative thing: I doubt the US doc could bill for his services in a country where he doesn't have a license in the standard fashion. So his fees would have to be covered by a contract or some sort of pre-arrangement. Or he could work for free.

For instances like when they fly in some renowned specialist to perform the separation of conjoined twins, what must happen is the State Department works out the licensing issues with the country in question so that the surgeon is legally covered to perform the operation.

[urunobili]

This thread has some extreme takes on each side. I think the truth lies more in the middle.

First of all, if the Spurs really wanted to they could send their doctors/trainers to France and they could have given Parker the same diagnoses and treatment. The US doesn't have any secret sprained ankle machines or anything. And France is far from a backwoods country.

Why don't the Spurs do that? Probably a combination of things. It'd probably cost more to send a doctor and a trainer there than to bring Parker here. The Spurs probably want to avoid having the French doctors looking over their shoulder while the French coach whispers to Parker that he's off the team if he doesn't play. Removing Parker from the situation is the cheaper and easier option. But as far as what makes the most sense, I'd agree that it'd make the most sense in the broad picture send the medical personnel to France. It'd make even more sense to send someone with Parker from the beginning to make sure he treats his injuries properly.

As far as the Spurs making Parker, that's BS. Parker was already damn good when he got to San Antonio. That'd be like saying Argentina didn't have a hand in producing Manu. These two guys are products of their respective country. France's youth basketball programs are even better than the youth programs in the US. The US is trying to catch up and uses France as one of the top models. Argentina is another example of a country who knows how to develop young players. Without the French youth basketball program, there'd be no Parker. Without Parker, there'd be none of the last three championships. So an American trying to be arrogant in this regard is pretty lame.

I also agree that the countries that develop these players get screwed when they get so good that their pro teams don't want them to play for their country. Do you think France spent money on Parker so that he could go to the US and forget all about them? Where I start to differ on this point is when people start blaming the Spurs for decisions regarding these players.

Manu and Oberto could have played with their NT if they wanted to. The Spurs advised them against it but there's nothing holding them back. And really, I don't think those two guys wanted to. Even if Argentina doesn't qualify this summer, there are other times and ways to qualify and they are almost a lock to qualify one way or another. But it make sense for when the Argentina media asks Manu or Oberto why they aren't playing, instead of telling them that they don't want to -- it's easier to just say the Spurs said no. When the truth is they could play if they really wanted to. Oberto was a free agent. He could have just played and then signed ... or gone to another team that would have no problem with him playing.

And that leads me to a thought about the Parker situation that I haven't seen anyone bring up. Doesn't anyone think that Parker could be behind his trip back to the US? I think it's entirely possible. Sure he loves his NT but no pro player likes playing in these meaningless preseason games and their pseudo training camps. By flying back to the US, Parker doesn't have to go to the two-a-days and can skip the boring part until it becomes closer to the time the real games begin. To think that Parker was a helpless pawn in this is underestimating Parker.

And as far as I remember, Finger-Gate happened differently than I'm reading in this thread. Parker hurt his finger. The French diagnosed it as a jammed finger. Then as a sprain. And then when the Spurs found out that there was actually a break in the finger and the French wanted him to play anyways, they got pissed. The French wanted him to put a splint on it and play. The Spurs said, and rightly so, that if Parker re-injures the finger, a three week injury could turn into a three month injury.

I really think the Spurs are fine with Parker playing for his NT. They just want to make sure he's being treated correctly, especially after last summer's Finger-Gate. That said, the Spurs could be more proactive as far as sending some personnel with Parker to make sure he's being treated properly for any medical conditions that may arise. They had a trainer staying with Mahinmi last year. I'm sure the bus ride over to Paris wouldn't have cost too much.

i totally agree buddy...

[ploto]

The Raptors trainer is in Spain with their national team and Garbajosa.

[ducks]

so canada is not the usa

[picnroll]

This is a very good post.

TP is who he is because of the investment of the French Basketball/Athletic program first and a product of the Spurs system second for the very simple reason that he would never have been drafted without the first part.

To those of you who argue the whole thing through money only, I say have a look at how much countries invest in young athletes in order to produce/discover talents like TP. The Spurs have it easy they have the luxury to invest in a proven product.

Oh and btw, the only return on the French athletic programs' investment is their athletes playing for the NT. I hope we can all agree that the Spurs' return on investment is much better. FIBA or the national association or even the club they are playing for do not receive a dime in return when their players decide to go play in the NBA - I don't really care for this but can understand the frustration of some teams to lose an assets they have nurtured for years (without any strings attached I may add).
How did LeBron, KG, Dwight Howard, Kobe make it without an Insep? Don't some of these European teams have junior club?. Isn't that the way futbol works? Why is the state developing basketball players to begin with? How much does it cost to run an Insep when you subtract out the built in educational costs? I'm willing to bet this cost is greatly exagerrated and no more than one of the private acadmeys some of these high school players attend for free in the US. I'm just not buying the "but look how much was invested in them" line.

[TMTTRIO]

Do you think if he didn't play for NT, he'd be sitting home in a glass cage waiting til his next official time playing for the Spurs?

No, he'd be playing basketball SOMEWHERE. Pro basketball players don't just sit in the offseason, they play basketball.

So, he'd be just as likely to sprain an ankle playing for France as he would playing in a charity tournament, a pickup game, an offseason league or camp (there's 60 NBA players playing in Tim Grgurich's camp in Vegas right now - should they be banned from playing there too? .. it's not NBA sanctioned), or at the Spurs practice facility.
I agree. I also remember Pop saying something about how it's good competition and they would be playing anyways in some kind of game. Hey even Manu is back to playing again (even though he's supposed to be resting :p: )http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jhT8Za4JRAM. I know we don't like it but injuries can happen anytime. It can also happen if they rest too much without playing. Look at last year when Manu had the whole summer off. He was injured the whole year. I just hope this year will be different. By the way I'm not worried. Tony's strong and will be better by the time the season starts.

[mathbzh]

I read on here that basketball is a minor sport in France. SO why are all you frenchies all up in arms over having Parker play there every year.
Do you realize that you are on a Spurs forum :p: ? All frenchies posting here are basketball fans.

[OM_fever]

Dude, we all get that playing on the national team is important. Please excuse the idiots who don't understand.

At the same time, you and the other French people on this thread need to knock off the outrage about him coming back here for treatment.

He's a 70 million dollar investment for the Spurs, they are the ones on the hook for the tab for his medical bills (not team France), and as such they should (and do) have the right to determine where he gets treatment.

Quit with the Euro inferiority complex/snobby American crap and look at it from a business perspective, because as much as you don't like it, that's the context in which the decision to bring him back here for treatment was made.

Sorry but you miss my point here. Saying that the Spurs don't have the right to check out Parker is wrong. I do understand that they invet in him & want to make sure that he is fine. I'm just perplex with that long trip for that... it's my only argument.

After I've got more concern with your last sentence. Where did you read in my post that I get any inferiority complex??? Get your fantasm for you please & read really what I posted. I am just amazed to read that many comments on: "don't play for your national team!". It sounds strange to me. I do like the Spurs, I root for them since DRob days but I love international competition. It's really particular events & I would always remember the dream team days too. Right now I can't understand that the US didn't give a shit to play for their countries, fortunatly the last defeats change some state of mind & we will see futur great games with Argentina, US, Greece, Spain, France, Serbia,...

And please to all posters, stop your shity comments on cheese & all caricatur. It's really an easy thing to do & it's for :donkey

Go Spurs

[mathbzh]

No, he'd be playing basketball SOMEWHERE. Pro basketball players don't just sit in the offseason, they play basketball.


Or he will be partying with Eva's friends and come back fat, alcoholic and drug addict :smokin

[mathbzh]

Maybe France should just stop wasting money on NBA talent. Just invest on people like Diot or Moerman who should become great FIBA players but don't have a NBA body.

[TheAuthority]

I'm sick of Tony Parker. We should have packaged him and some of these players like Barry in a deal for Garnett. Essentially that deal was Garnett for Jefferson and 2 #1's. OK, and Theo Ratliff's expiring deal. Big deal. Gomes is decent, he's nothing special, he's a throw in. Gerald Green has done nothing, just like Telfair. Parker is twice the player Jefferson is. It's proven; it's easy to put up numbers on a bad team. I'm sure Jefferson will put up similar good numbers on a bad team in Minnesota -- on a good team, he's like 14 and 9.

Earlier in the year the Spurs could have also offered Scola, well, before they gave him away for nothing. I'm just pissed they didn't at least make a run at him. I don't care about Parker's age. The only benefit to me, is that his trade value is higher because he's young. When Duncan retires, this team's going to shit. Everyone knows it. Even Spurs fans. Let's bring Garnett on board and finish this dynasty up. Oh wait, wouldn't want to go over the luxury tax! Even if that means making a conference contender stronger! Good thinking!

[Slomo]

It has nothing to do with a doctor being able to examine the patient and render an opinion. That's up to the patient.

But a US doctor wouldn't have the authority to get things done like order an X-Ray or MRI or blood tests. S/he'd have to have a French (in this case) physician do it. Also the US doc couldn't prescribe medications (maybe they could if they brought them along with them, would depend on the regulations) or do any procedures without a license. What would happen is the French doc would ask the US doc for an expert opinion (i.e., a consultation) and work in collaboration with them, but the "official" doc would be the person with the license (i.e.,the French one).

One other administrative thing: I doubt the US doc could bill for his services in a country where he doesn't have a license in the standard fashion. So his fees would have to be covered by a contract or some sort of pre-arrangement. Or he could work for free.

For instances like when they fly in some renowned specialist to perform the separation of conjoined twins, what must happen is the State Department works out the licensing issues with the country in question so that the surgeon is legally covered to perform the operation.Gotcha :tu

[Slomo]

How did LeBron, KG, Dwight Howard, Kobe make it without an Insep? Don't some of these European teams have junior club?. Isn't that the way futbol works? Why is the state developing basketball players to begin with? How much does it cost to run an Insep when you subtract out the built in educational costs? I'm willing to bet this cost is greatly exagerrated and no more than one of the private acadmeys some of these high school players attend for free in the US. I'm just not buying the "but look how much was invested in them" line.I seriously doubt that I need to explain to you how american athletes make it to the NBA. I'll just say the US system is unique and impossible to implement outside of it.

Most of the best European teams in fact have junior teams and those are mostly a cost for the respective organization - a cost they accept in hope that one of their members will pan out and make it all worthwhile.

Some countries have dedicated athletic schools/programs for young talented athletes to develop (ie INSEP in France). The reason for this is that schools in Europe are mostly academic institutions with almost no budget for sports beyond basic recreation. People who are interested in competitive sports join a club and fight there ways through the various age groups and amateur level competitions.


As for the exact amount it is irrelevant since I was replying to the posters saying "we paid for him so he's ours". That statement is false since his/her club/association/country made him good enough for a pro team to even sign him/her. I'm going to repeat myself and say it is a lot easier to buy an existing/established talent than to find and develop it - specially for a pro club that will turn that purchase into profit (well if the club is not the Knicks).

And finally even if the amount in dollars and cents might not be as impressive as a NBA 6 years contract the financial burden placed on the national organization while developing him/her is much greater than the burden of the contracts on the pro team.

So all in all take the time to investigate how these things work outside of the US and you'll find out it is many things (good and bad) but definitely not exaggerated.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Read Slomo and JPB.

They got it.

I get it too.

When will the Europeans on the board quit with the ugly American crap? I don't necessarily agree with some of the posters in this thread, but at the same time the 'arrogant American' crap while preaching the national pride of European players like us Americans don't give a flip about our country as long as our NBA team winning is pure BS too.

Maybe some of the posters on here will lighten up about being selfish about the Spurs if the Euro posters on here will lighten up with the inferiority complex...

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

The same thing again:

Bowen can play for USA
But not the internationals for they countries

I don't see Bruce playing for Team USA this summer, unless I missed something.

And if he had gotten hurt last year, the Spurs would have brought him back to SA as well. Quit with the drama.

[stéphane]

Maybe some of the posters on here will lighten up about being selfish about the Spurs if the Euro posters on here will lighten up with the inferiority complex...
You're making an inferiority complex when you have the same status and consider the other being better no? So tell me how a country like france is equal to US basketball wise? As it's been said in this thread BB is a minor sport here. The number of american playing bb and the number of french have nothing in common...

[mathbzh]

I get it too.

When will the Europeans on the board quit with the ugly American crap? I don't necessarily agree with some of the posters in this thread, but at the same time the 'arrogant American' crap while preaching the national pride of European players like us Americans don't give a flip about our country as long as our NBA team winning is pure BS too.

Maybe some of the posters on here will lighten up about being selfish about the Spurs if the Euro posters on here will lighten up with the inferiority complex...

+1

I disagree with you on the situation... but as I also said it as nothing to do with USA/Europe relationship.

Proof:
The problems are the same in Soccer or Rugby between european clubs
and european NT

[Alain]

Sport is a soft version of war (see ancient greeks Olympics, cold war, sports vocabulary, ...).
During a battle, people are injured or die, regardless of their respective value to society. Money is irrelevant here.
Seeing the same posters, who used to bash France for not supporting the US forces in Iraq, saying TP should stop representing his nation is amazing hypocrisy.

[stéphane]

Sport is a soft version of war (see ancient greeks Olympics, cold war, sports vocabulary, ...).
During a battle, people are injured or die, regardless of their respective value to society. Money is irrelevant here.
Seeing the same posters, who used to bash France for not supporting the US forces in Iraq, saying TP should stop representing his nation is amazing hypocrisy.
:hungry: talking about war while you're at it name those i'm sure they'll be delighted

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

You're making an inferiority complex when you have the same status and consider the other being better no? So tell me how a country like france is equal to US basketball wise? As it's been said in this thread BB is a minor sport here. The number of american playing bb and the number of french have nothing in common...

An inferiority complex is a feeling that one is inferior to others in some way.

This thread is littered with posts by French people (I am not stereotyping, they freely admit this) whining about Spurs fans being selfish, the Spurs franchise looking down on French doctors, that us Americans don't understand national pride like the Euros do, etc.

Would jealousy be a better word for you? Either way, get the hell over it already. The Spurs are paying Parker 70 million. They are paying the bills for any medical problems he has or treatments he need, not team France.

If they want him in SA for treatment, it's their prerogative and all the whiny people in this thread (regardless of nationality) need to recognize that, understand it, and shut up about it.

Good lord. The moment anyone criticizes Parker, the Church of Parker goes on the attack. Now we have them doing the same because the Spurs are flying him back for treatment for an injury?

Particularly after ShoogarBear shed light on the medical situation and the inability of the Spurs to send doctors over there to treat him?

Like I said, quit with the ugly American BS, and maybe you and your fellow Frenchmen will get shown some respect on here. Until then, don't lecture us on national pride, etc. There's plenty of national pride here buddy, and we'd understand it if someone like Tim or Bowen or whoever were playing for Team USA, got hurt, and went home to SA for treatment.

European football clubs do the same thing with their stars when they get hurt in international play, I don't get the drama here, other than a couple of French folks taking offense to the Spurs and their opinion of French medical treatment, and translating that into some sort of national slight.

[stéphane]

An inferiority complex is a feeling that one is inferior to others in some way.

This thread is littered with posts by French people (I am not stereotyping, they freely admit this) whining about Spurs fans being selfish, the Spurs franchise looking down on French doctors, that us Americans don't understand national pride like the Euros do, etc.

Would jealousy be a better word for you? Either way, get the hell over it already. The Spurs are paying Parker 70 million. They are paying the bills for any medical problems he has or treatments he need, not team France.

If they want him in SA for treatment, it's their prerogative and all the whiny people in this thread (regardless of nationality) need to recognize that, understand it, and shut up about it.

Good lord. The moment anyone criticizes Parker, the Church of Parker goes on the attack. Now we have them doing the same because the Spurs are flying him back for treatment for an injury?

Particularly after ShoogarBear shed light on the medical situation and the inability of the Spurs to send doctors over there to treat him?

Like I said, quit with the ugly American BS, and maybe you and your fellow Frenchmen will get shown some respect on here. Until then, don't lecture us on national pride, etc. There's plenty of national pride here buddy, and we'd understand it if someone like Tim or Bowen or whoever were playing for Team USA, got hurt, and went home to SA for treatment.

European football clubs do the same thing with their stars when they get hurt in international play, I don't get the drama here, other than a couple of French folks taking offense to the Spurs and their opinion of French medical treatment, and translating that into some sort of national slight.

I'm wondering AHF if this post is directed at me. I tend to think so because of the "you and your fellow Frenchmen"... If so what did I say in this thread about it? nothing... I'm not mad at the spurs calling him back to check if he's allright. But you'll sure hear more if they don't want him to play anymore with the french team. And please quit with the stereotyping you mentioned dude :) .

[Alain]

The Spurs are paying Parker 70 million.




They could pay him a few tacos, it wouldn't change anything.
Money is irrelevant in this case.

[JPB]

How did LeBron, KG, Dwight Howard, Kobe make it without an Insep? Don't some of these European teams have junior club?. Isn't that the way futbol works? Why is the state developing basketball players to begin with? How much does it cost to run an Insep when you subtract out the built in educational costs? I'm willing to bet this cost is greatly exagerrated and no more than one of the private acadmeys some of these high school players attend for free in the US. I'm just not buying the "but look how much was invested in them" line.

The federal center (centre fédéral) is a part of the INSEP.
each year, it represents :

-48 young people (4 teams, girls and boys) to carry over (food, bed, education...)
-15 technicians (coaches, assistant, physical trainers...)
-administration people (don't know how many exactly)

Teams play in pro-am championships vs older guys to get a though opposition and in international youth competitions. That represents a important logistic cost.

As for an example, here are the 1998-1999 graduates, TP's second and last year in the CFBB.

Yann DEVEHAT
Mamoutou DIARRA
Boris DIAW
Julien DOREAU
Thomas DUBIEZ
Matthieu FORGET
Guy GUEDEGBE
Nicolas KACZMAROW
Vincent MARGUERITTE
Robert MICHALSKI
Olivier MOGNON
Noel NIJEAN
Tony PARKER
Gorjan RADONJIC
Ronny TURIAF

Out of these 12, and you can see it was an exeptional year, less than half of them really made a life of basketball. 3 made the NBA, and one (Diarra) became an international player. But again, it's not all years like that.

Maybe, these informations can give yo an idea of what the center investment represents.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

They could pay him a few tacos, it wouldn't change anything.
Money is irrelevant in this case.

According to some of the French posters in this thread, that's all we care about here in America :rolleyes

[Slomo]

When will the Europeans on the board quit with the ugly American crap?
Please post link to my post referring to the above.

[picnroll]

Some countries have dedicated athletic schools/programs for young talented athletes to develop (ie INSEP in France). The reason for this is that schools in Europe are mostly academic institutions with almost no budget for sports beyond basic recreation. People who are interested in competitive sports join a club and fight there ways through the various age groups and amateur level competitions.

Seems like a lot what what INSEP is is a place where talented foreign players, who qualify for French citizenship because they're from former French colonies, are placed for 3 or 4 years after they're identified by scouts pouring over Africa.

[Slomo]

Seems like a lot what what INSEP is is a place where talented foreign players, who qualify for French citizenship because they're from former French colonies, are placed for 3 or 4 years after they're identified by scouts pouring over Africa.Weak spin attempt!

My point is not about race or imperialism, it's about some posters in this thread claiming sole ownership over TP on behalf of the Spurs because they paid him, making him a de facto assets worth protecting from France (more specifically the french NT).

If payment or investment is the only criteria than the french claim to TP is just as valid as the Spurs'

That's all.

Stay on topic.

[picnroll]

Weak spin attempt!

My point is not about race or imperialism, it's about some posters in this thread claiming sole ownership over TP on behalf of the Spurs because they paid him, making him a de facto assets worth protecting from France (more specifically the french NT).

If payment or investment is the only criteria than the french claim to TP is just as valid as the Spurs'

That's all.

Stay on topic.
But some are justifying in part the "moral justification" of participation by players on their national teams because of the tremendous investment the country has made in developing its players. The investment is relly a pitance when you subtract out the cost of paying scouts to scour Africa, and the idea that it is a national team is largely a joke, it is largely the French Foreign Legion. This doesn't appy to Parker but it does to many.

[JP le Requin]

Refrain

To arms, oh citizens!
Form up in serried ranks!
March on, march on!
And drench our fields
With their tainted blood!


Verses

I
Arise you children of our Motherland !
Oh now is here our glorious day !
Over us the bloodstained banner,
Of tyranny holds sway ! (repeat)
Oh do you hear there in our fields
The roar of those fierce fighting men?
Who came right here into our midst
To slaughter sons, wifes and kin.
To arms ! and so on.


II

What do they want this horde of slaves,
Of traitors and conspiratorial kings ?
For whom these vile chains,
These long-prepared irons? (repeat)
Frenchmen, for us, ah! What outrage !
What methods must be taken ;
It is we they dare plan
To return to the old slavery !
To arms ! and so on.


III

What! These foreign cohorts
They would make laws in our courts !
What! These mercenary phalanxes
Would cut down our warrior sons ! (repeat)
Good Lord! By chained hands !
Our brow would yield under the yoke !
The vile despots would have themselves be
The masters of destiny !
To arms ! and so on.


IV

Tremble, tyrants and traitors,
The shame of all good men !
Tremble! Your parricidal schemes
Will receive their just reward. (repeat)
Against you we are all soldiers.
If they fall, our young heros,
France will bear new ones
Ready to join the fight against you.
To arms ! and so on.


V

Frenchmen, as magnanimous warriors
Bear or hold back your wounds !
Spare these sad victims,
That they regret taking up arms against us ! (repeat)
But not these bloody despots !
These accomplices of Bouillé !
All these tigers who pitilessly
Ripped out their mothers' wombs !
To arms ! and so on.


VI

Supreme devotion to our Motherland,
Guides and sustains avenging hands.
Liberty, oh dearest Liberty,
Come fight with your shieldings bands. (repeat)
Beneath our banner come, oh Victory,
Run at your soul-stirring cry.
Oh come, come see your foes now die,
Witness your pride and our glory.
To arms ! and so on.


1st children verse

Into the fight we to shall enter,
When our fathers are dead and gone ;
We shall find their bones laid down to rest
With the fame of their glories won ; (repeat)
Oh, to survive them care we not
Glad are we to share their grave
Great honor is to be our lot
To follow or to venge our brave.
To arms ! and so on.


i am agree TP is going to san antonio ti chek everything about him!!
let him alone!!! and spurs will not find any problems s he will come back to france and will go to spain win our first european championship, then THE BACK TO BACK!!!!

GO SPURS GO !!!!!
et ALLEZ LES BLEUX!!!!! ou ALLEZ LA FRANCE!!!!

[mathbzh]

the idea that it is a national team is largely a joke, it is largely the French Foreign Legion.

Feel free to give me the name of players you are talking about?

Here is the french NT
Pape BADIANE born in Boulogne Billancourt (France)
Boris Diaw born in Cormeilles en Parisis (France)
Yakhouba DIAWARA born in Paris (France)
Cédric FERCHAUD born in Cholet (France)
Joseph GOMIS born in Evreux (France)
Aymeric JEANNEAU born in La Roche sur Yon (France)
Michel MORANDAIS born in Guadeloupe (France - French west indies)
Florent PIETRUS born in Guadeloupe (France - French west indies)
Yohann SANGARE born in Poissy (France)
Ronny TURIAF born in Martinique (France - French west indies)
Frédéric WEIS born in Thjionville (France)

There are only 3 player not born in France:

Sacha Giffa born in Moscou (Russia) grew up in France
Tony PARKER born in Bruges (belgium) grew up in France
Tariq KIRKSAY born in New York

Among these 3 players only Tariq Kirskay would qualify as "Foreign Legion"... and he is not exactly from Africa.

I assume you conclude we have a "French Foreign Legion" because there are a lot of black players in the French team. I will tell you a secret you can be black AND french. Some French players have Africans roots but they are french citizen and a true part of the "national team".

[stéphane]

Feel free to give me the name of players you are talking about?

Here is the french NT
Pape BADIANE born in Boulogne Billancourt (France)
Boris Diaw born in Cormeilles en Parisis (France)
Yakhouba DIAWARA born in Paris (France)
Cédric FERCHAUD born in Cholet (France)
Joseph GOMIS born in Evreux (France)
Aymeric JEANNEAU born in La Roche sur Yon (France)
Michel MORANDAIS born in Guadeloupe (France - French west indies)
Florent PIETRUS born in Guadeloupe (France - French west indies)
Yohann SANGARE born in Poissy (France)
Ronny TURIAF born in Martinique (France - French west indies)
Frédéric WEIS born in Thjionville (France)

There are only 3 player not born in France:

Sacha Giffa born in Moscou (Russia) grew up in France
Tony PARKER born in Bruges (belgium) grew up in France
Tariq KIRKSAY born in New York

Among these 3 players only Tariq Kirskay would qualify as "Foreign Legion"... and he is not exactly from Africa.

I assume you conclude we have a "French Foreign Legion" because there are a lot of black players in the French team. I will tell you a secret you can be black AND french. Some French players have Africans roots but they are french citizen and a true part of the "national team".

yep mais tu te doutes que deja qu'en france yen a certain a qui ca plait pas, alors au texas qui est historiquement ******* et bien c'est encore pire...
sorry for the french sentence.
And btw the foreign legion is among our top army's group...
so yeah tell all the american that are born outside of the US that they are just foreigners even if they are US citizens
BS
:rolleyes

[JPB]

Seems like a lot what what INSEP is is a place where talented foreign players, who qualify for French citizenship because they're from former French colonies, are placed for 3 or 4 years after they're identified by scouts pouring over Africa.

What a poor, poor, really poor, ignorant post. :rolleyes

I shouldn't try to educate you, but :

Guadeloupe, Martinique, French guyana are french territories (départements in french) with the same laws, rights, duties...

Through his history, France has also the largest black community (we don't like this word in France) outside of America. Many people who were born and grew up here have parents or grand parents who came from Sénégal, Ivory Cost, cameroon, Malia...
There are also people wh ocame from Italy, Spain, Portugal, Poland...for economic reasons troughout the century, just like in America. Their children are french like anybody else.

I don't think you would talk about foreign legion for Kobe, Lebron, D-Wade... whom ancesters "came" from Africa ?

End of today's class.
There might be an exam soon.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Please post link to my post referring to the above.

Present company excluded. Come on Slomo, you know it wasn't directed at you, it's directed at all the clowns in this thread whining that us Americans don't understand national pride, that it's an insult to France that we won't let their docs treat Tony, etc.

[jéjé]

there's new on tony yet ?

He made his MRI ??

[OM_fever]

Is it really worthy to comment on your post Aggie?

I'm honest, I don't really understand why best american players don't play for the US, but that's not my business...

Concerning parker, you were strong enough (or blind enough) to read what you wanted to read... We speak about the interest of making a trip back to the US with the jetlag & the other pbs, not speaking about superiority, inferiority or whatever you said...

I just hope the NBA teams will not try to block international players to play for their countries, that's my only scare, nothing more.

[Bruno]

there's new on tony yet ?

He made his MRI ??

Stop with your off topic post jéjé, this thread isn't about Parker but it's about a worthless France/USA hate. ;)

Parker has landed in SA yesterday. He has started his rehab in SA yesterday and will made a MRI in SA today. Spurs medical staff still has pictures of the MRI that Parker has made in Geneva for one week. They will send today's MRI pictures to French medical staff and both staff will decide on a rehab schedule even if it's in fact Spurs medical staff will be the only one to decide.

After the first MRI and the start of the rehab (Parker's ankle has responded well to treatment) French medical staff thought that Parker would be ready for the Strasbourg tournament that start on august 10th. We will know today or tomorrow if Spurs medical staff will have the same diagnostic with today's MRI result. I wouldn't be surprised to read that Parker will be out for few more days because Spurs staff will be extra careful with Parker health.

[stéphane]

Stop with your off topic post jéjé, this thread isn't about Parker but it's about a worthless France/USA hate. ;)


:dramaquee :p:

[ForeignFan]

it is funny no one mentions that playing for the NT in international competitions also make the players better. The NBA is certainly the biggest concentration of talented players, but remember what happened to the US teams lately (and remember what AI said after the Olympics). So TP or Diaw or whoever playing for their NT is definitely not a waste of time or money for the NBA franchises. The SA organisation -and some of the posters here- shoud keep this in mind.

[ducks]

Stop with your off topic post jéjé, this thread isn't about Parker but it's about a worthless France/USA hate. ;)

Parker has landed in SA yesterday. He has started his rehab in SA yesterday and will made a MRI in SA today. Spurs medical staff still has pictures of the MRI that Parker has made in Geneva for one week. They will send today's MRI pictures to French medical staff and both staff will decide on a rehab schedule even if it's in fact Spurs medical staff will be the only one to decide.

After the first MRI and the start of the rehab (Parker's ankle has responded well to treatment) French medical staff thought that Parker would be ready for the Strasbourg tournament that start on august 10th. We will know today or tomorrow if Spurs medical staff will have the same diagnostic with today's MRI result. I wouldn't be surprised to read that Parker will be out for few more days because Spurs staff will be extra careful with Parker health.
thanks for the info
:clap

[JPB]

Claude Bergeaud, french NT's coach seems pretty mad. Here's some quotes of his own, reported on lequipe.fr (french sport newspaper website)


"TP's ankle is really fine but we said we wouldn't take any risk...I don't see why he wouldn't be allowed to come back, except Spurs say : "French NT is over for TP !". Then, we'll understand it 's over for ever. Because if he's coming back to SA for those reasons, which are insignificant, a kick on the foot wich causes a really little, minor thing, then it will mean it's over. We won't have NBA players anymore, at the slightest fart."


Worries are high but signs of irritation are staying rather sober.

"Since Spurs are the owners of the player, I understand very well that they want to make further exams, verifications, assurances."

Irritation remains mesured but does exist. On Boris Diaw and the insurance issue :

"If we are told that Boris can't play, it's a stabbing. Beyond Tony, we built this team around Boris. Should have we know that he couldn't play, some players wwouldn't be here and some others would be. without diaw, we would be dismantled. "when 250 pds guys say something, 120 ones listen" (famous french movie line)".

[Bruno]

Some news :
Spurs medical staff thinks too that the injury isn't serious at all and that the injury is almost over.
Parker will stay in SA for one week and work with Will Sevening and Chad Bergman. Parker won't play the Strasbourg tournament (10th - 12th August) and will play again with French NT on August 17th.

[Alain]

Great! Parker is so good that he doesn't even need to train with the NT! :rolleyes

[jéjé]

that sucks for the strasbourg tournament !!!

[Lady M]

Some news :
Spurs medical staff thinks too that the injury isn't serious at all and that the injury is almost over.
Parker will stay in SA for one week and work with Will Sevening and Chad Bergman. Parker won't play the Strasbourg tournament (10th - 12th August) and will play again with French NT on August 17th.
from l'équipe.fr

Une chose est sûre, la bonne nouvelle concerne Tony Parker ce samedi. «Il sera opérationnel pour le tournoi de Strasbourg même si on fera bien sûr très attention avec lui» a indiqué l'entraîneur français. Car la préparation à l'Euro n'attend pas. Les Bleus se rendront à Strasbourg dès mardi où ils participeront à un tournoi international le week-en prochain (10-12 août).

[Bruno]

Some news :
Spurs medical staff thinks too that the injury isn't serious at all and that the injury is almost over.
Parker will stay in SA for one week and work with Will Sevening and Chad Bergman. Parker won't play the Strasbourg tournament (10th - 12th August) and will play again with French NT on August 17th.

^ It was in today's newspaper (l'équipe) and it was what Spurs PR have said to this newspaper.

But Bergeaud (Franch NT coach) has said after today's game that Parker has called him to say that he will be ready for Strasbourg tournament.

http://www.lnb.fr/index.php?pid=50&id_article=11375&cursor_start=0

Strange...

While French NT has no leverage towards Spurs, Parker has some leverage. Spurs should avoid to make Parker unhappy. IMO, Spurs staff want to be really careful and let Parker plays only on August 17th. Parker wants to play one week sooner in Strasbourg and is trying to convince Spurs to let him play. We will see if he succeed.

[Demo Dick Marcinko]

That's good that he isn't hurt seriously. Let's hope that going into the Stasbourg tournament that he isn't too fatigued after a grueling 82 game season and another 19 or so intense playoff games.

As a USA fan I want our best to represent, in hopes that that the US can again regain their status as the best basketball nation in the world.

As a Spurs fan I would be highly pissed if he came back to training camp this year, fatigued or with micro tears in muscle or tissue or worse that will diminish his play in our quest to repeat.

Can't have it both ways (unless there's a female involved) but there has to be a better way. Too bad there has to be Spurs fans of whatever nationality bitching back and forth because of this issue.

[JPB]

Update :

TP will be back in France tomorrow and will play the Strasbourg tournament (vs Serbia, Grece and Slovenia).

:wakeup