Dimm-o-crapic Chicken-Hawk

[xrayzebra]

Well, well, well. What have we here. The man who is
against war is for war. Hmmmmmm.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070801/ap_on_el_pr/obama_terrorism_7


CinC Obama taking the lead?

[George Gervin's Afro]

Well, well, well. What have we here. The man who is
against war is for war. Hmmmmmm.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070801/ap_on_el_pr/obama_terrorism_7


CinC Obama taking the lead?



The Illinois senator warned Pakistani President Gen. Pervez Musharraf that he must do more to shut down terrorist operations in his country and evict foreign fighters under an Obama presidency, or Pakistan will risk a U.S. troop invasion and losing hundreds of millions of dollars in U.S. military aid.

"Let me make this clear," Obama said in a speech prepared for delivery at the Woodrow Wilson International Center for Scholars. "There are terrorists holed up in those mountains who murdered 3,000 Americans. They are plotting to strike again. It was a terrible mistake to fail to act when we had a chance to take out an al-Qaida leadership meeting in 2005. If we have actionable intelligence about high-value terrorist targets and President Musharraf won't act, we will."


You see ray I realize you are limited in your information sources so I will fill you in on a couple of things. One, Democrats aren't anti war-, rather they are anti-unecessary war... Second I asssume you have noticed not much was ever said concerning our immediate intervention into Afghanistan because most, if not all, of the public understood why we went after the folks who killed us. Wehre you lost the public is when your boy bush miscalculated and started a war that was not needed..so there.. please back up your point about dems being anti- war when they supported the afghanistan theatre... please explain that to all of us..

[xrayzebra]

You see ray I realize you are limited in your information sources so I will fill you in on a couple of things. One, Democrats aren't anti war-, rather they are anti-unecessary war... Second I asssume you have noticed not much was ever said concerning our immediate intervention into Afghanistan because most, if not all, of the public understood why we went after the folks who killed us. Wehre you lost the public is when your boy bush miscalculated and started a war that was not needed..so there.. please back up your point about dems being anti- war when they supported the afghanistan theatre... please explain that to all of us..


No you are just uninformed and bias. Your information
is skewed to the left. As for as Obama, I would support
him on invading Pakistan. In my opinion we should
have made it clear to the Paki's we would not allow
OBL to hideout there. I am not sure people like you
would support Bush though if he made the same
decision. Why? Well, it is going to tough going and
we are going to lose a bunch of men. And possibly
face a nuclear war because Pakistan does have nuclear
weapons and the idiots that would use them if they
have half a chance to inflict heavy damage on the U.S.

[George Gervin's Afro]

No you are just uninformed and bias. Your information
is skewed to the left. As for as Obama, I would support
him on invading Pakistan. In my opinion we should
have made it clear to the Paki's we would not allow
OBL to hideout there. I am not sure people like you
would support Bush though if he made the same
decision. Why? Well, it is going to tough going and
we are going to lose a bunch of men. And possibly
face a nuclear war because Pakistan does have nuclear
weapons and the idiots that would use them if they
have half a chance to inflict heavy damage on the U.S.



Ray people would support it because they want revenge for 9/11... if Bush said osama is there and we are going to go get him i guaranatee you that 90%+ would support his actions including myself.

[xrayzebra]

Ray people would support it because they want revenge for 9/11... if Bush said osama is there and we are going to go get him i guaranatee you that 90%+ would support his actions including myself.

Would you now. I have my doubts if things didn't go
good for us right from the git go.

[George Gervin's Afro]

Would you now. I have my doubts if things didn't go
good for us right from the git go.


I am not anti-war ray.. I would die for my God, family, and country.. in a minute.. Iraq? hell no.. not worth it.

[boutons_]

Part of the general slime job by the right-wing war-mongers is that being against the Iraq war and being against dubya and dickhead and accomplices is treason, pro-terror, soft, anti-war, etc. Total lies, but that's what the right wing jingos thrive in.

[clambake]

In my opinion we should
have made it clear to the Paki's we would not allow
OBL to hideout there. I am not sure people like you
would support Bush though if he made the same
decision.

Good point ray. History shows him to be a bad decision maker, so support would be thin. Trust is the main ingredient when you're asked to follow a leader. I don't see him worthy of another chance.

[xrayzebra]

And all the rest of the politicians have made really good decisions?
Have I got that right. Like Clinton? Like Carter? Like the elder Bush?

IMO Bush II has made pretty good decision as far as foreign
affairs goes. It is just that he was blunt in his language. Which
to the tender ears of some and the anguish of others over their
money connections, oil for food, they didn't want to hear it.

Everyone seems to say we over extended ourselves in Iraq and
created all these terrorist. But how bout the terrorist? They
haven't had to dig deep to counter Bush. Never hear about
that do you?

[Wild Cobra]

A war taken to Pakistan.

Isn't that a bit ridiculous that a demonrat wants to go to war there? They complain about president Bush lying on the intelligence, they claim faulty intelligence. Now they believe the intelligence when they can start a war that a republican didn't?

God. I'm tired of the positions these demonrats take. Party over nation.

[George Gervin's Afro]

A war taken to Pakistan.

Isn't that a bit ridiculous that a demonrat wants to go to war there? They complain about president Bush lying on the intelligence, they claim faulty intelligence. Now they believe the intelligence when they can start a war that a republican didn't?

God. I'm tired of the positions these demonrats take. Party over nation.


would rooting out the al-qaeda in pakistan be a good thing?

[Ya Vez]

when do we invade Sudan, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia and Israel... according to the left that is those are the countries that are worth invading...?

[sabar]

Are we just going to take over the middle east? I'm outta here if we're fighting 2-3 wars at once, it'd be the beginning of the end of the United States total world dominance.

There are 50-60 nuclear warheads in Pakistan.

[Wild Cobra]

would rooting out the al-qaeda in pakistan be a good thing?
No it wouldn't, but going into Pakistan in mass would be a bad move. We have been operating in small groups, and they don't mind that. However, they cannot both turn a blind eye to us and operate overtly.

The point of what I was saying is that the democrats opposed a war designated by president Bush. Now Obama talks of one, when they don't trust the intelligence? Who will they blame when things go wrong like they always do in war?

[xrayzebra]

No it wouldn't, but going into Pakistan in mass would be a bad move. We have been operating in small groups, and they don't mind that. However, they cannot both turn a blind eye to us and operate overtly.

The point of what I was saying is that the democrats opposed a war designated by president Bush. Now Obama talks of one, when they don't trust the intelligence? Who will they blame when things go wrong like they always do in war?

WC, do you really thing we went wrong in Iraq. I know
politically everyone says we did. But I have a question.
Had our military and Bush had 100 percent backing
here in the U.S. would the effort there be the same as
now? Not very good wording, but I think you get the
meaning. I feel that things would be much more
different. The terrorist would be much more on the
defensive and not able to recruit by using OUR own
politicians words. Like Reid who publicly exclaims
we have lost. And Murtha and Pelosi who keeps
wanting us out of Iraq.

I know we lost in VN because the same scenario played
out there as is now happening.

Our enemy in VN and now in Iraq knew/know that if
they can just hang on they will win because of our
lack of willpower.

But this time our very lives here in the United States
are at stake. And that is a fact. We will not be able
sustain our domestic security because there is just
too many targets. I think some of the incidents that
have occurred here just recently has shown that in a
rather spectacular fashion. You think our enemies
have not noticed that?

[George Gervin's Afro]

WC, do you really thing we went wrong in Iraq. I know
politically everyone says we did. But I have a question.
Had our military and Bush had 100 percent backing
here in the U.S. would the effort there be the same as
now? Not very good wording, but I think you get the
meaning. I feel that things would be much more
different. The terrorist would be much more on the
defensive and not able to recruit by using OUR own
politicians words. Like Reid who publicly exclaims
we have lost. And Murtha and Pelosi who keeps
wanting us out of Iraq.

I know we lost in VN because the same scenario played
out there as is now happening.

Our enemy in VN and now in Iraq knew/know that if
they can just hang on they will win because of our
lack of willpower.

But this time our very lives here in the United States
are at stake. And that is a fact. We will not be able
sustain our domestic security because there is just
too many targets. I think some of the incidents that
have occurred here just recently has shown that in a
rather spectacular fashion. You think our enemies
have not noticed that?


was the vietnam 'police action' worth it? 55,000 dead?

[xrayzebra]

was the vietnam 'police action' worth it? 55,000 dead?

Pass it back to you. Was the million killed or imprisoned
and still under the rule of people who will kill if you do not
conform worth us leaving them to that fate.

[boutons_]

I fully agree with XZ that VN and Iraq are similar

Both are gratuitous, unnecessary wars of choice against militarily weak countries oceans away that were no threat to USA.

Both justified with total bullshit readings of the situation. VN was supposed to be the first of many dominoes to fall. Iraq had WMD, hit the WTC, in cahoots with AQ, was main front in war on terror.

Both wars supported weak, corrupt governments unable to function without US support.

Both countries were were or became civil wars, were broken countries, where the USA had no fight or influence or interest.

The US military "never lost a battle" in VN, and the US military is kicking ass in Iraq but Iraq is a worsening shit hole and "victory" is not even mentioned any more, only a multi-decade occupation.

The US public caught on and refused to support a war that was unwinnable and was hurting the US, while showing no benefit to the US.

As usual, the quote of XZ shows he is totally full of bullshit.

[George Gervin's Afro]

Pass it back to you. Was the million killed or imprisoned
and still under the rule of people who will kill if you do not
conform worth us leaving them to that fate.


I am comfortable saying that the neither the Sunni or Shiite militias will be on the next plane to the US once we leave. Save me the 'al-qaedas coming to kill you' rhetoric because whether we are in IRAQ or not they are all over the world..and getting stronger.. so to answer your question again no I'm not concerned if we leave Iraq thst the people in Iraq will come to kill us... In regards to your unfounded notion that 'millions will be killed' no one knows if that will happen or not.

I don't think Vietnam was worth it. I can admit that. I don't think Iraq is worth it either.


was vietnam worth it ray?

[xrayzebra]

was vietnam worth it ray?

No the lives were wasted because of people like you.

boutons you said:

Both justified with total bullshit readings of the situation. VN was supposed to be the first of many dominoes to fall.

Ever hear of Cambodia?

You also said:


Both wars supported weak, corrupt governments unable to function without US support.

I wasn't aware we support Saddam when we kicked him
out of office or his "so called" government. You want
to enlighten me on that.

VN, you are correct. But their government was the
lesser of two evils. And they at least allowed their
citizens some freedoms.

[Wild Cobra]

WC, do you really thing we went wrong in Iraq. I think mistakes were made, but not anything substantial. I think the war in Iraq was a necessary evil, and that hindsight is 20/20. As seving for 11 years and during the Gulf War, I don't want to imply negligence of any commander or decision, just that things always go wrong in war. Ever hear of a perfect war? A perfect game in sports is rare. Why should war be any better?


I know politically everyone says we did. But I have a question. Had our military and Bush had 100 percent backing here in the U.S. would the effort there be the same as now?
Hard to say. I think the biggest problem in the way the war is implemented is we are trying to be nice at the same time we engage in war.


Not very good wording, but I think you get the meaning. I feel that things would be much more different. The terrorist would be much more on the defensive and not able to recruit by using OUR own politicians words. Like Reid who publicly exclaims we have lost. And Murtha and Pelosi who keeps wanting us out of Iraq.
That might be true. I really don't know. So hard to get into the minds of people who think so much differently than us. I think for that to happen, we have to be so extreme against the terrorists that they fear us. These ones doing the suicide bombing do not fear death. They embrace it, believing they will be rewarded by Allah. That is why in another thread I advocate showing them the USA is stronger than their God.


I know we lost in VN because the same scenario played out there as is now happening.
Yep. In fact, the democrat congress pulled the purse strings after we were winning. How many people were exterminated when we pulled out? Wasn't it something like 2 million? I expect the same thing will happen to the Iraqi's who supported us if we pull out early.


Our enemy in VN and now in Iraq knew/know that if they can just hang on they will win because of our lack of willpower.
Yep. This time, we don't have people like Hanoi Hannah. The democrats are doing that propaganda themselves. I will never forgive those who are demoralizing our troops.


But this time our very lives here in the United States are at stake. And that is a fact. We will not be able sustain our domestic security because there is just
too many targets. I think some of the incidents that have occurred here just recently has shown that in a rather spectacular fashion. You think our enemies have not noticed that?
Yes, I think they have noticed. There are some pretty good things we are doing to keep the terrorists from accomplishing anything, but they only need to get lucky once. I think the 'show' of things delaying flights are unnecessary. Sounds silly, but I would prefer a chance of a bomb going off on a hijacked plane than all the stress these few years. Securing the flight cabin is enough so they cannot use the plane as a weapon I think.