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ducks
08-02-2007, 09:34 AM
http://www.boston.com/sports/basketball/celtics/articles/2007/08/02/title_for_celtics_far_from_a_done_deal/?page=1


By Bob Ryan, Globe Columnist | August 2, 2007

And?

That's it? Someone actually thinks this Celtics team will win the East and contend for the championship? Really?

I am reminded of the classic line given by Ronald Reagan in "Kings Row." He awakens in a hospital bed and becomes aware he has no legs.

"Where's the rest of me?" he wails.

Tell me something. Did I miss the memo in which David Stern proclaimed that in the 2007-08 season the NBA will be a three-on-three competition? And did I also miss the other memo, the one in which Stern revoked the charters of some NBA Eastern Conference teams, most notably Detroit, Miami, Chicago, Washington, and defending conference champion Cleveland?

Apparently I did. There can be no other explanation for the mass giddiness that has engulfed this region from the minute it was confirmed that Danny Ainge had acquired Kevin Garnett. Yes, I will certainly admit that Garnett, Paul Pierce, and Ray Allen are a fine 1-2-3 combination, arguably the league's best (Phoenix, San Antonio, and Detroit would certainly object). But, to borrow a phrase, "Where's the rest of me?"

Unless it really is going to be a three-on-three NBA, the Celtics will be forced to place two additional players on the floor, and not just occasionally, but for every one of the 48 minutes.

That concerns me. That concerns me because what I am about to say is nonnegotiable: What's left on the Celtics' roster is by far the worst collection of proven talent in the NBA. Not one of the remaining 29 teams in Stern's world would even consider trading its fourth through 12th players for Boston's. There is no way Danny, Doc, Wyc, Steve, or Red's Ghost could look anyone in the eye and say otherwise.

Oooh, I forgot. Danny's not done. Isn't that what I heard? He's going to import a veteran point guard. Brevin Knight, for example. Brevin Knight? Look, he's a proper Stanford guy and a fine individual. He would provide incremental improvement (3 percent? 11 percent?) in the point guard department. All things considered, I'll stick with Rajon Rondo, thank you very much.

And speaking of Rondo, what I am about to say is equally nonnegotiable, as well as being quite scary: Rondo is the fourth-best player on the Celtics' roster. No team in the league has such a colossal drop-off in talent and NBA desirability.

What is the matter with everyone? Are people in these here parts so starved for some legitimate NBA excitement they have immediately abandoned all reason in their quest to anoint the reconstituted roster as a potential champion?

The folks in Las Vegas are likewise caught up in this euphoric nonsense. Depending on which tout you favor, the Celtics trail only the Suns, Mavericks, and Spurs as championship favorites, and are favorites to win the East. In normal times I fully respect what the wise men in Las Vegas have to say about sporting events

In this case I fear they've all been lobotomized. None of this makes any sense. Then again, I may have missed that three-on-three memo.

Please, somebody, calm down, take off the green-and-white underwear and take a good look at the rest of the roster. It consists of Kendrick Perkins, Tony Allen, Brian Scalabrine, Rondo, Leon Powe, Eddie House, Jackie Manuel, and rookies Glen "Big Baby" Davis, Gabe Pruitt, and Brandon Wallace. Over on the side there is free agent Michael Olowokandi.

I can just hear the "No mas!" from the Pistons, Heat, Bulls, Wizards, and Cavaliers right now.

Perkins is a hard-working banger who might as well have a sign tattooed on his forehead saying, "Career Backup." Powe is pretty much the same thing. That doesn't mean I don't like either one, but to appropriate another popular local phrase, they are what they are. Scalabrine might -- might -- have some value if he can consistently hit the 3-pointer. Note the words "might" and 'if."

I like Rondo. He'll be around the NBA for a long time with his speed and defensive tenacity. But he needs experience, and there is the stupendous, "Yeah, but," concerning his shot. Backing up a major point guard, he could be a very nice asset. He is simply not ready to be a leading man in this league.

House can shoot, and that's something this team desperately needs. I'm sure that, under the circumstances, he'll be overbilled, however. Manuel was a great defensive player at North Carolina, but there is a reason he has yet to play his first NBA game. We'll be told it won't matter that he has no NBA offensive skill. I'm just telling you what to expect.

The rookies? Who knows? Yes, I like Big Baby, and he could bring a lot to the table. That's "could." Wallace was a Summer League sensation who played his way into a surprise contract. Congratulations, son. Pruitt? Maybe, possibly, someday, perhaps. Who knows?

That leaves Tony Allen. He is recovering from the dreaded torn ACL injury. He may very well make a full recovery. He'd damn well better, not just because he injured himself with a phenomenally stupid indiscretion for which he was never properly chastised (dunking well after the whistle), but also because his game is built on superior athleticism. If he comes back at 90 percent of his preaccident self, he is finished as a viable NBA commodity. He's 6 feet 4 inches, not 6-9. He has no future without his full athleticism.

So tell me what's so enticing about this roster. If Danny had kept Ryan Gomes, I'd be far more optimistic. And why did Danny have to relinquish two No. 1 draft picks? Am I the only one who thinks this stuff matters? There is nothing to suggest the Celtics won't once again be a horrible defensive team. There is no guarantee Rondo can run a team and keep order among the star trio. There is no guarantee, for that matter, that Ray Allen will play 70 games, or even 60.

Once again we'll be back to the two-teams thing. You'll have the Old Guys and the Kids. You'll have the Veteran All-Stars who arrive at practice with chauffeurs and the guys who hitchhike to work. Once again Doc Rivers will earn every cent of his salary, this time trying to make a bizarre mismatched conglomeration of real and supposed talent into a proper team.

I am amused at what Danny has done. He has basically blow-torched his entire body of work here in Boston. Forget the youth/athleticism/grow-together thing. Forget 2009, 2010, and 2011. Load up now.

OK, if that's the case, I'll live with that. But the job is only half done. This core group of marquee players needs to be supported by the right cast, and it's not here yet. The Celtics are fascinating. They are intriguing. They are a borderline freak show. They'll definitely be more fun to watch.

They might even make the playoffs.

Supergirl
08-02-2007, 09:41 AM
I agree the Celtics shouldn't be crowned champs yet, and probably WON'T make it past any of the top teams in the West, but anyone who thinks KG, Paul Pierce, and Ray Allen playing with a bunch of role players isn't good enough to make it past EVERYONE in the Eastern Conference doesn't watch basketball, and doesn't know jack about Kevin Garnett.

He made the Minnesota Timberwolves pretty damn good for a few years there, and he never had half the talent of Paul Pierce and Ray Allen to complement him. He's one of 2-3 ELITE players in the NBA - up there with Tim and Kobe right now.

Yes, it was a gamble, but neither franchise was going anywhere in the timetable of their respective stars' careers - both KG and Pierce would be out of this league before the Celtics or the Wolves were rebuilt into contenders at their current pace. It was worth a shot, for both teams, really.

ShoogarBear
08-02-2007, 09:46 AM
I agree the Celtics shouldn't be crowned champs yet, Disagrees. --------> http://www.joesportsfan.com/jsfpics/columns/green.jpg

implacable44
08-02-2007, 10:01 AM
http://www.boston.com/sports/basketball/celtics/articles/2007/08/02/title_for_celtics_far_from_a_done_deal/?page=1


By Bob Ryan, Globe Columnist | August 2, 2007

And?

That's it? Someone actually thinks this Celtics team will win the East and contend for the championship? Really?

I am reminded of the classic line given by Ronald Reagan in "Kings Row." He awakens in a hospital bed and becomes aware he has no legs.

"Where's the rest of me?" he wails.

Tell me something. Did I miss the memo in which David Stern proclaimed that in the 2007-08 season the NBA will be a three-on-three competition? And did I also miss the other memo, the one in which Stern revoked the charters of some NBA Eastern Conference teams, most notably Detroit, Miami, Chicago, Washington, and defending conference champion Cleveland?

Apparently I did. There can be no other explanation for the mass giddiness that has engulfed this region from the minute it was confirmed that Danny Ainge had acquired Kevin Garnett. Yes, I will certainly admit that Garnett, Paul Pierce, and Ray Allen are a fine 1-2-3 combination, arguably the league's best (Phoenix, San Antonio, and Detroit would certainly object). But, to borrow a phrase, "Where's the rest of me?"

Unless it really is going to be a three-on-three NBA, the Celtics will be forced to place two additional players on the floor, and not just occasionally, but for every one of the 48 minutes.

That concerns me. That concerns me because what I am about to say is nonnegotiable: What's left on the Celtics' roster is by far the worst collection of proven talent in the NBA. Not one of the remaining 29 teams in Stern's world would even consider trading its fourth through 12th players for Boston's. There is no way Danny, Doc, Wyc, Steve, or Red's Ghost could look anyone in the eye and say otherwise.

Oooh, I forgot. Danny's not done. Isn't that what I heard? He's going to import a veteran point guard. Brevin Knight, for example. Brevin Knight? Look, he's a proper Stanford guy and a fine individual. He would provide incremental improvement (3 percent? 11 percent?) in the point guard department. All things considered, I'll stick with Rajon Rondo, thank you very much.

And speaking of Rondo, what I am about to say is equally nonnegotiable, as well as being quite scary: Rondo is the fourth-best player on the Celtics' roster. No team in the league has such a colossal drop-off in talent and NBA desirability.

What is the matter with everyone? Are people in these here parts so starved for some legitimate NBA excitement they have immediately abandoned all reason in their quest to anoint the reconstituted roster as a potential champion?

The folks in Las Vegas are likewise caught up in this euphoric nonsense. Depending on which tout you favor, the Celtics trail only the Suns, Mavericks, and Spurs as championship favorites, and are favorites to win the East. In normal times I fully respect what the wise men in Las Vegas have to say about sporting events

In this case I fear they've all been lobotomized. None of this makes any sense. Then again, I may have missed that three-on-three memo.

Please, somebody, calm down, take off the green-and-white underwear and take a good look at the rest of the roster. It consists of Kendrick Perkins, Tony Allen, Brian Scalabrine, Rondo, Leon Powe, Eddie House, Jackie Manuel, and rookies Glen "Big Baby" Davis, Gabe Pruitt, and Brandon Wallace. Over on the side there is free agent Michael Olowokandi.

I can just hear the "No mas!" from the Pistons, Heat, Bulls, Wizards, and Cavaliers right now.

Perkins is a hard-working banger who might as well have a sign tattooed on his forehead saying, "Career Backup." Powe is pretty much the same thing. That doesn't mean I don't like either one, but to appropriate another popular local phrase, they are what they are. Scalabrine might -- might -- have some value if he can consistently hit the 3-pointer. Note the words "might" and 'if."

I like Rondo. He'll be around the NBA for a long time with his speed and defensive tenacity. But he needs experience, and there is the stupendous, "Yeah, but," concerning his shot. Backing up a major point guard, he could be a very nice asset. He is simply not ready to be a leading man in this league.

House can shoot, and that's something this team desperately needs. I'm sure that, under the circumstances, he'll be overbilled, however. Manuel was a great defensive player at North Carolina, but there is a reason he has yet to play his first NBA game. We'll be told it won't matter that he has no NBA offensive skill. I'm just telling you what to expect.

The rookies? Who knows? Yes, I like Big Baby, and he could bring a lot to the table. That's "could." Wallace was a Summer League sensation who played his way into a surprise contract. Congratulations, son. Pruitt? Maybe, possibly, someday, perhaps. Who knows?

That leaves Tony Allen. He is recovering from the dreaded torn ACL injury. He may very well make a full recovery. He'd damn well better, not just because he injured himself with a phenomenally stupid indiscretion for which he was never properly chastised (dunking well after the whistle), but also because his game is built on superior athleticism. If he comes back at 90 percent of his preaccident self, he is finished as a viable NBA commodity. He's 6 feet 4 inches, not 6-9. He has no future without his full athleticism.

So tell me what's so enticing about this roster. If Danny had kept Ryan Gomes, I'd be far more optimistic. And why did Danny have to relinquish two No. 1 draft picks? Am I the only one who thinks this stuff matters? There is nothing to suggest the Celtics won't once again be a horrible defensive team. There is no guarantee Rondo can run a team and keep order among the star trio. There is no guarantee, for that matter, that Ray Allen will play 70 games, or even 60.

Once again we'll be back to the two-teams thing. You'll have the Old Guys and the Kids. You'll have the Veteran All-Stars who arrive at practice with chauffeurs and the guys who hitchhike to work. Once again Doc Rivers will earn every cent of his salary, this time trying to make a bizarre mismatched conglomeration of real and supposed talent into a proper team.

I am amused at what Danny has done. He has basically blow-torched his entire body of work here in Boston. Forget the youth/athleticism/grow-together thing. Forget 2009, 2010, and 2011. Load up now.

OK, if that's the case, I'll live with that. But the job is only half done. This core group of marquee players needs to be supported by the right cast, and it's not here yet. The Celtics are fascinating. They are intriguing. They are a borderline freak show. They'll definitely be more fun to watch.

They might even make the playoffs.


Phoenix , San Anotnio and Detroit would object ?

KG, Ray Allen and Pierce trump any trio

better than TD, Parker and Manu
better than I guess you meant - Wallace, Rip, Billups
Better than Nash, Marion, Amare

KG, RAY Allen and Pierce -- at least offensively trump all three of those trios. THe Spurs might have a chance only because of TD - but in a 3-on-3 That Celtics Trio dominates- -- of course in the NBA - that trio gets you 45-50 wins and probably a 2nd round exit.

himat
08-02-2007, 10:04 AM
Phoenix , San Anotnio and Detroit would object ?

KG, Ray Allen and Pierce trump any trio

better than TD, Parker and Manu
better than I guess you meant - Wallace, Rip, Billups
Better than Nash, Marion, Amare

KG, RAY Allen and Pierce -- at least offensively trump all three of those trios. THe Spurs might have a chance only because of TD - but in a 3-on-3 That Celtics Trio dominates- -- of course in the NBA - that trio gets you 45-50 wins and probably a 2nd round exit.

If the NBA was a 3 on 3 game then you would be right.

Phoenix, San Antonio, and Detroit would object because they have better teams than Boston does. Who cares about trios? Last time I checked the Nets were not doing anything, and they have one of the best trios in the league.

Ed Helicopter Jones
08-02-2007, 10:11 AM
I think Boston could end up being a 4-seed in the East regardless of who they sign beyond their big 3. Garnett took crappy Minnesota teams to the playoffs with less talent around him back in the day.

I don't think they'll be in the Finals, but I can see this team getting to round 2.

boutons_
08-02-2007, 10:12 AM
Doc Rivers hasn't proved himself to be an effective coach, just a mediocre journeyman coach.

Rivers' Celtics look to be be, behind street balla/leader Pierce, a "grind it out" team, with no system, and above all no defense.

Mark in Austin
08-02-2007, 10:28 AM
This is what happens when sports writers stop writing from the heart and start writing like they are the smartest guy in the room.

psst. Bob. The for the first time in 15 years, the Celtics matter again. Give it a week of afterglow before you start picking everything apart. Even Jerry West didn't turn the Lakers into contenders, much less Champions the year they brought in O'Neal.

The east is weak enough that it is possible for the Celtics to get to the finals this year. Give them another year to fit more pieces around the big three, and they'll be fine.


Tell you what, Bob. I'll give you a legit topic for your next column:

It doesn't matter who Ainge brings in, Doc Rivers is a shitty coach who gets a pass from all the sportswriters because he's an easy guy to interview. Hell, he'll write your column for you if you ask real nice.

Have fun Bob.

florige
08-02-2007, 10:35 AM
Doc Rivers hasn't proved himself to be an effective coach, just a mediocre journeyman coach.

Rivers' Celtics look to be be, behind street balla/leader Pierce, a "grind it out" team, with no system, and above all no defense.


Thats what I'm thinking here. Rivers will find a way to F that perfect situation up. :hat

ShoogarBear
08-02-2007, 10:58 AM
Rivers may not do a good job with them, but it's not even close to being a "perfect situation" either.

Extra Stout
08-02-2007, 10:58 AM
The New Jersey Nets have proven that a trio of superstars surrounded by sheer crap can get you a .500 record and a trip to the second round in the East.

I expect the Celtics to improve upon that. 50 wins is not out of the question. They could make the ECF with the right draw, and never count out Flip Saunders' ability to lose a critical playoff series, now matter how superior his team is.

101A
08-02-2007, 11:02 AM
...

He made the Minnesota Timberwolves pretty damn good for a few years there, and he never had half the talent of Paul Pierce and Ray Allen to complement him. He's one of 2-3 ELITE players in the NBA - up there with Tim and Kobe right now.
...

Cassell & Sprewell were EASILY "half the talent", if not the equal (including filling the all important PG spot. Minnesota 4-12 were better.

Switchman
08-02-2007, 11:04 AM
THREE D's.

Depth.

Defense.

Duncan.

Supergirl
08-02-2007, 11:37 AM
Cassell & Sprewell were EASILY "half the talent", if not the equal (including filling the all important PG spot. Minnesota 4-12 were better.

No way do Cassell and Sprewell even come close to being as good as Ray Allen and Paul Pierce. As result, no one's even TRIED to build a team around Sprewell or Casell as their franchise players.

And again, in response to a couple people's comments: No one's arguing the Celtics are better than the elite teams in the West. If they make it to the Finals they'd be toppled in 5-6 games at most by the Spurs, the Suns, or the Mavs, hell, perhaps even the Jazz.

But in a weak Eastern conference, depending on who they can get to surround their big three and how well they gel and how healthy they can stay, they could easily get to the Finals. Because the Eastern conference has never seen a player of KG's caliber, not in a long time. Even Shaq, as dominant as he is, is not as good an all around player, because he's lazy on defense. I don't think people grasp this.

Clutch20
08-02-2007, 11:53 AM
Interesting how in order to validate their contentions, many writers will include in their column a questionable premise such as "Yes, I will certainly admit that Garnett, Paul Pierce, and Ray Allen are a fine 1-2-3 combination, arguably the league's best," ignoring very recent playoff history in the process.

Bob Ryan's story is mostly ok even though there are examples of others saying just about the same thing:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/chris_ekstrand/07/31/garnett.celtics/index.html

inconvertible
08-02-2007, 06:46 PM
Phoenix , San Anotnio and Detroit would object ?

KG, Ray Allen and Pierce trump any trio

better than TD, Parker and Manu
better than I guess you meant - Wallace, Rip, Billups
Better than Nash, Marion, Amare

KG, RAY Allen and Pierce -- at least offensively trump all three of those trios. THe Spurs might have a chance only because of TD - but in a 3-on-3 That Celtics Trio dominates- -- of course in the NBA - that trio gets you 45-50 wins and probably a 2nd round exit.


bullshit only KG plays D and against TD he sucks.

barbacoataco
08-02-2007, 07:37 PM
I think Boston will have some defense, just because having Garnett under the basket will help. I think one of the big questions is how Ray Allen comes back from his injuries.

Cant_Be_Faded
08-02-2007, 07:46 PM
Rondo, more like Hondo.

The_Game
08-02-2007, 08:11 PM
The New Jersey Nets have proven that a trio of superstars surrounded by sheer crap can get you a .500 record and a trip to the second round in the East.

I expect the Celtics to improve upon that. 50 wins is not out of the question. They could make the ECF with the right draw, and never count out Flip Saunders' ability to lose a critical playoff series, now matter how superior his team is.

do not ever compare NJ's trio to the celtics. not even close...NJ 's is no where near as good as Boston's.

LMAO @ the people who think pistons are better. They aren't. The pistons are clearly on the downside. Their window has closed for them.

Boston will win the east and will have a chance in the finals. They aren't doing moves wise either. Lets judge them when their roster is complete.

lotr1trekkie
08-02-2007, 08:28 PM
The Celtics 3 stooges can't be seriously considered finals contenders. However, if they get there, the Spurs will sweep again. Duncan over Garnot, Parker over Allen, and Manu over Pierce. Our bench over theirs. DUN!

Nikos
08-02-2007, 11:58 PM
The New Jersey Nets have proven that a trio of superstars surrounded by sheer crap can get you a .500 record and a trip to the second round in the East.

I expect the Celtics to improve upon that. 50 wins is not out of the question. They could make the ECF with the right draw, and never count out Flip Saunders' ability to lose a critical playoff series, now matter how superior his team is.

Difference is Garnett is vastly superior to any Net, and Ray and Pierce are about as good as Vince -- and both are easily superior to Richard Jefferson.

So basically the Celtics new trio is a much more talented big three.