Barry should start

[duncan2k5]

:smokin
but really. i think starting should boost his confidence, plus having manu off the bench was good last year. we would have won if it wasnt for 0.4. remember we won like 17 straight games before we lost to the lakers. so i think barry starting should be considered. plus manu plays about 26-30 mins a game anyway. we need that spark plug. and Devin should sub for bowen since his defence is coming along too.

p.s. Devin is a BEAST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (GRRRRRRRRRRRRRR)

[violentkitten]

d2k5 your one of my top 10 favorite posters but the spurs cant be coddling players like that

[duncan2k5]

not familiar with the word coddling. what do u mean?

[violentkitten]

they cant protect him. they cant make it easy for him. if hes not playing as well as devin then devin should get the minutes

[duncan2k5]

yea i agree. devin is the man, but i meant instead of devin subbing in for manu, he should sub in for bowen. and barry could be a starter and have manu come off the bench. maybe that would boost barry's confidence.

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

That's a bold statement. But it's tough to pick anyone from that starting line 1-3 to bench. For the stats that Manu is putting up he should be on the floor as much as they are, and Brown provides plenty of spark off the bench. You could bench Parker but with a guy even younger than Barry there's an even greater risk of bruising his confidence. That just leaves Bowen, whose defense is a key component to what the spurs do, but Barry for Bowen could work. Better offense, and a starting line up of five guys who know how to move the ball around, and then Bowen can come in and put the screws to the opponents scorers down the stretch perhaps. I don't know. There's really no easy answer to this problem but Pop needs to try something because I don't think this is a problem that is going to solve itself any time soon.

[ChumpDumper]

Hedo-sized hugs for everyone!

[violentkitten]

manu has earned his place in the starting lineup.

[BigVee]

manu has earned his place in the starting lineup.
What does that mean? Earned his place? Rasho starts every game and finishes none. His starting has nothing to do with what he has earned. It should be about what is best for the team. If Ginobili is only going to play 30 minutes, which 30 do you want him to play?

[SuperManu!!!]

Manu must be a starter, putting him in the bench again will crush him. Barry will never be a starter because he aint that good. IN all cases, consider bowen for brown

[duncan2k5]

i dont think bowen should come off the bench because then he wouldnt be guarding the other team's best player that much. and i agree that manu deserves to be a starter, but i have no doubt he can put up those same numbers coming off the bench while earning the same number of minutes. plus if barry starts to contribute while starting it would be lights out. but if benching manu would bruise his confidence i wouldnt condone it. its the same reason i didnt want Kidd to come. i like tony too much and it would impede his growth and kill his confidence. only if he could be consistent. its like when he has a good passing game, he doesnt score. and vice versa

[ChumpDumper]

We did this last year because we had no alternative.

It didn't work.

This year we have an alternative that's kicking ass.

[BigVee]

If Pop thought starting Barry over Manu would improve the team he would do it in a second and say "get over it"

[SuperManu!!!]

If barry wants to be a starter, he must prove it by start hitting some shots

[BigVee]

I'd like to see the lineup stay the same, but sub in 5 at once....Rose and the Killer "B's"...Barry, Bob, Brown and Beno

[SuperManu!!!]

and the Killer "B's"...Barry, Bob, Brown and Beno


Who is Bob?

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

Big Shot Bob=Robert Horry

[Manu20]

The thing that is limiting Barry's minutes (besides Brown) is the strong play of Beno. I mean if Beno does not play this good Barry would have gotten the backup PG minutes. Also, the defense of Barry would not be exposed as much at the PG spot.

[ducks]

barry should start the cheering

[duncan2k5]

how can barry prove his worth playing 5 and 6 minutes? dont yank him as soon as he misses one shot. i know what barry is going through. before i hardly used to handle the ball, so ppl didnt know my complete game, especially as a PG. but when im trusted more with it i do some good things. barry needs the mins

[Supergirl]

Barry has not earned a starting role, and is needed in the second rotation more. Kerr's article today was excellent, and really pointed out how even with the two losses recently, Spurs are still the team to beat, because they are so solid. They won 8 straight effortlessly. Their bench went to sleep for two games, except for Brown last night. But it's still the deepest in the league. Rose, Barry, Brown, Horry, and Udrih makes the Spurs the best 8 or 10 man rotation in the league. But they're not playing their best yet. They're still turning over the ball too much and forcing shots. But it's early. They're not playing well, and still they're 16-5 and one of the best in the league.

[ChumpDumper]

how can barry prove his worth playing 5 and 6 minutes?Make a shot.

Don't get burned on D.

Rocket science.

[violentkitten]

step off man

[ducks]

is barry even hitting his shots in warmups?

[bigzak25]

i would not be suprised to see Pop try barry starting at the point at sometime this season. Parker is obviously 1st man up and beno's minutes dip. So be it.

[BigVee]

Barry was picked up based on his career accomplishments. He was averaging just under 30 minutes per game for his career. The last 10 games he has averaged 17 minutes, the last five just over 10. Anyone realistically expect him to hit his career marks while adjusting to such a drastic reduction in playing time. Come on.

[ducks]

he would be playing more if brown sucked
but he does not

do you want spurs to lose 10 games just so he might get out his slump?

[ChumpDumper]

Give him minutes based on his rep.

Understood.

[violentkitten]

hey ducks you got big weekend plans?

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

That was the kind of philosophy that lead to a 6-8 start and a championship in 99, wasn't it? I'm not saying there was someone in particular in a slump, but Pop was willing to play mad scientist and try some things with everyone.

[ducks]

I give him minutes based on what he does on court and what others that play that postion do on court not based on what he done years ago
it is based on what have you done lately for the spurs

[BigVee]

he would be playing more if brown sucked
but he does not

do you want spurs to lose 10 games just so he might get out his slump?

Let's see, he played 6 minutes against Seattle and we lost. He played 9 minutes last night and we lost. Yep, you make sense.

[ducks]

hey ducks you got big weekend plans?

got to work on saturday
get off in time to
watch james suck against bowen
sunday watch chargers win
hope eagles choke redskins win

not much else kitten

you?

[GerM]

Pop loves manu too much to bench him, plus it´s obvious he is gonna have much more playing time in the playoffs.

[ducks]

Let's see, he played 6 minutes against Seattle and we lost. He played 9 minutes last night and we lost. Yep, you make sense.


brown was not the reason spurs lost to sonics
and brown was the reason spurs were so close against rockets
you make sence

:lol

brown plays barry's postion

and beno is playing well so you can not put him in backup one

[Gummi]

Bad idea. You can't penalize Devin and Manu just to try out Barry at the starting SG. Barry hasn't done anything this season for that to happen. I know you want to try it to increase Barry's confidence but as long as we're winning, the coaching staff won't do that. Maybe I would understand if we're the Rockets and struggling. I love Barry's game but he hasn't produced so far.

Barry's been a major disappointment but on the other hand Devin Brown has been a huge surprise. All I want from our bench is consistant 10 points from a player, if it's Barry, fine, Rose fine, Udrih fine, Devin fine. It doesn't matter as long as we get those 10 points. If Devin can consistantly produce 10 points or close to that, great but you can't take Barry over him at this moment. He just hasn't earned it.

[ChumpDumper]

Let's see, he played 6 minutes against Seattle and we lost. He played 9 minutes last night and we lost. Yep, you make sense.Yep, 30 minutes of Shane Barry's .000 shooting the past two games could only have helped.

[violentkitten]

no :drunk or :smokin ?

i think i'll take my dog to the lake. should be fun

http://www.highmountainhunting.com/duck_hunt.jpg

[BigVee]

brown was not the reason spurs lost to sonics
and brown was the reason spurs were so close against rockets
you make sence

:lol

brown plays barry's postion

and beno is playing well so you can not put him in backup one

Last attempt. You were concerned additional playing time for Barry would mean losing. I pointed out that we already were losing, and he was not playing. FI, I quit.

[ChumpDumper]

Last attempt. You were concerned additional playing time for Barry would mean losing. I pointed out that we already were losing, and he was not playing.Ok, so we should guarantee ourselves losses now. Dallas should be ahead of us by Christmas.

[BigVee]

Yep, 30 minutes of Shane Barry's .000 shooting the past two games could only have helped.

Check the stats. When he has played 30 minutes he is shooting 52%. Oh, I forgot, the facts don't matter.

[ChumpDumper]

Your point?

Devin is better.

Bowen is better.

Manu is better.

We have a three-man rotation at the swing spots.

More Rocket science.

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

For shit's sake, getting Barry more minutes is not going to cause Tim Duncan to turn into a pumpkin, or make Manu's hands fall. If the spurs can get hot again and start beating teams by 15 for a stretch then there's no reason why Brent can't start getting more time in semi-garbage minutes to get his shot on. Or hell, give a start against the Hornets or something. There are some shit teams out there that the spurs could be on a bad night and get Barry some minutes while their at it.

[ChumpDumper]

And Barry has only played 30min twice this season.

Nice sample.

I am not opposed to garbage time for him.

[Manu20]

So, does anybody think is a good idea for Pop to give Barry some backup PG minutes?

[Gummi]

So we should play a guy that's been bricking so bad that it reminds me of the 2001 Lakers series. I just don't see why we should give Barry huge minutes when he isn't playing well. The same thing with Rasho. I know he's going to get his stroke back, but he shouldn't be playing major minutes when he's clearly being outplayed by Devin.

[Spurminator]

Barry probably played 30 minutes those games because he was shooting well.

Chicken/Egg.

[Useruser666]

Hedo-sized hugs for everyone!

Hugs or Huggies?

[BigVee]

And Barry has only played 30min twice this season.

Nice sample.

I am not opposed to garbage time for him.

Who said this season? So let's not play him 30 minutes because we don't want him to shoot 52%, we want him to come in for 6 minutes and hope he is warm and can light it up right away. But if he does miss, yank his ass right out of there. Brilliant.

[ChumpDumper]

But if he does miss, yank his ass right out of there. Brilliant.No, Devin is brilliant.

That's why he plays.

[Spurminator]

If you can show me statistics that prove Barry improves in the latter minutes of his playing time... (for instance, he plays 20 minutes and shoots better in minutes 11-20 than the first ten) then I will buy your argument.

You simply cannot decrease Brown's minutes with the way he's playing, and you certainly can't put Manu on the bench when he has a legitimate shot at being an All Star.

[Gummi]

The first 15 games of the season Barry was the first player of the bench, replacing Manu at the 6 minute mark. OK. He was playing farily well for the most part, then came a couple of games where he struggled. So Pop went more and more to Devin. He was putting up good numbers and hustling on defense. OK.

The last 5-6 games Devin has sometimes been the first of the bench and sometimes Barry has been the first. Usually when Barry came in he was missing all of his shots. So when the time came to put Manu back in to replace Barry, Devin was playing very well as Bowen's sub. So when Manu or Bowen were replaced Pop gave the call to Devin, why? Because he was playing well. Pop doesn't give players minutes just for the fun of it. So while Barry was struggling, Devin was not.

Why again should Barry be playing 30 minutes a night and Devin shouldn't get of the bench?

[BigVee]

If you can show me statistics that prove Barry improves in the latter minutes of his playing time... (for instance, he plays 20 minutes and shoots better in minutes 11-20 than the first ten) then I will buy your argument.

You simply cannot decrease Brown's minutes with the way he's playing, and you certainly can't put Manu on the bench when he has a legitimate shot at being an All Star.

There are plenty of minutes to get a few more for BB. Manu looked so tired last night, he was dragging himself around. And I would cut down on Bowen's minutes. We didn't lose last night because of the defense. We scored 80 frickin points!!!!

[BigVee]

The first 15 games of the season Barry was the first player of the bench, replacing Manu at the 6 minute mark. OK. He was playing farily well for the most part, then came a couple of games where he struggled. So Pop went more and more to Devin. He was putting up good numbers and hustling on defense. OK.

The last 5-6 games Devin has sometimes been the first of the bench and sometimes Barry has been the first. Usually when Barry came in he was missing all of his shots. So when the time came to put Manu back in to replace Barry, Devin was playing very well as Bowen's sub. So when Manu or Bowen were replaced Pop gave the call to Devin, why? Because he was playing well. Pop doesn't give players minutes just for the fun of it. So while Barry was struggling, Devin was not.

Why again should Barry be playing 30 minutes a night and Devin shouldn't get of the bench?

Just wish Van Gundy thinks like you....McGrady would have been on the bench at the end of the game.

[ChumpDumper]

Just wish Van Gundy thinks like you....McGrady would have been on the bench at the end of the game.Who's better than McGrady on that team? There are three guys playing better than Barry at his position right now.

[BigVee]

Right. Ok, back to work. You have given me some comic relief.

[ChumpDumper]

You have too.

30 mintues of Shane Barry.

*snort*

[BigVee]

You have too.

30 mintues of Shane Barry.

*snort*
Cool, look forward to the next go around.

[ChumpDumper]

Cool, look forward to the next go around.I'm waiting for Barry to prove me wrong.

I welcome it.

[SuperManu!!!]

LEt's make it simple!
Manu and bowen are the real starters. Manu plays 30 minutes and barry the other 18 minutes. Same for bowen and brown.....but if any of this players are in a good night, let's make them play more minutes. That's it.

[ChumpDumper]

LEt's make it simple!
Manu and bowen are the real starters. Manu plays 30 minutes and barry the other 18 minutes. Same for bowen and brown.....but if any of this players are in a good night, let's make them play more minutes. That's it.That's pretty much what happens anyway. It's just that Barry has been that bad and Brown has been that good -- Brown gets all the minutes.

[Rummpd]

BS thread. If anyone Brown should be starting. Play Barry 15 a night and let it go at that on a regular basis.

MadDoc

[ducks]

play 15 minutes a game once he earns it back

[ShoogarBear]

is barry even hitting his shots in warmups?

:lmao

ducks, you're on a roll today!

[whottt]

We did this last year because we had no alternative.

It didn't work.

This year we have an alternative that's kicking ass.


Geezus F can we please put fucking Chump on probation until "it" is actually right about something? Goddman it's just endless wrong talking more and more shit...it's endless.

Takes fucking balls to sit and make derisive Hedo comments ass breath, you were the one defending that move. Holy shit what in the fuck is wrong withy you? You were one with your head up Hedo's ass last season.



You were alsot he one who wanted Charlie Ward.

You were also the one who defended Pop's benching of Malik.

You talked shit to me this past summer and said Malik was going to suck.

You a fucking moron because you sit there say a guy is shit if he plays 4 or 5 bad games and you say he belong on the bench...asswipe how the fuck do you expect them to get better if they don't get any playing time you dumbass.

Guess what asshat, we fucking losing games, the object is to win...using your primitive analytical perspective, the whole team sucks, bench them dumbass, see where it gets you.

Just STFU until you are actually right about something...note, I said STFU until you are right...which means you will hopefully be STFU forever....And don't bitch...it's the same philosophy you have towards players...

[SequSpur]

^Brutal.

[TwoHandJam]

Geezus F can we please put fucking Chump on probation until "it" is actually right about something? Goddman it's just endless wrong talking more and more shit...it's endless.

Takes fucking balls to sit and make derisive Hedo comments ass breath, you were the one defending that move. Holy shit what in the fuck is wrong withy you? You were one with your head up Hedo's ass last season.



You were alsot he one who wanted Charlie Ward.

You were also the one who defended Pop's benching of Malik.

You talked shit to me this past summer and said Malik was going to suck.

You a fucking moron because you sit there say a guy is shit if he plays 4 or 5 bad games and you say he belong on the bench...asswipe how the fuck do you expect them to get better if they don't get any playing time you dumbass.

Guess what asshat, we fucking losing games, the object is to win...using your primitive analytical perspective, the whole team sucks, bench them dumbass, see where it gets you.

Just STFU until you are actually right about something...note, I said STFU until you are right...which means you will hopefully be STFU forever....And don't bitch...it's the same philosophy you have towards players...I won't be that brutal but I have to agree with Whottt that not giving Barry at least more than 6mpg to break out of his slump is ridiculous. He's played 6mpg in our last two losses. He isn't causing us to lose games.

Barry is far from being an unproven like Hedo. This is a guy who shot over 50% just last year. Most guards don't do that ever in their entire careers. Barry has done it twice. Don't tell me that he's all of a sudden lost all his bball skills.

You don't have to take minutes from Brown as he's earned them but Pop could find more than 6mpg for him. Shave off some minutes from Beno (who looked utterly lost in Seattle) when he's sucking and maybe a few from Bowen. Pop underused Kerr in 2003 and were it not for Tim insisting he play in the playoffs, we might not have even won a title. Barry has a career fg% of .462. Don't waste it Pop.

[Manu20]

I say give some minutes to Barry at backup PG.

[SequSpur]

As soon as the sphincter tightens, Pop is rolling with corporate knowledge. They are 0 and 5 in those games.

[timvp]

Geezus F can we please put fucking Chump on probation until "it" is actually right about something? Goddman it's just endless wrong talking more and more shit...it's endless.

Takes fucking balls to sit and make derisive Hedo comments ass breath, you were the one defending that move. Holy shit what in the fuck is wrong withy you? You were one with your head up Hedo's ass last season.



You were alsot he one who wanted Charlie Ward.

You were also the one who defended Pop's benching of Malik.

You talked shit to me this past summer and said Malik was going to suck.

You a fucking moron because you sit there say a guy is shit if he plays 4 or 5 bad games and you say he belong on the bench...asswipe how the fuck do you expect them to get better if they don't get any playing time you dumbass.

Guess what asshat, we fucking losing games, the object is to win...using your primitive analytical perspective, the whole team sucks, bench them dumbass, see where it gets you.

Just STFU until you are actually right about something...note, I said STFU until you are right...which means you will hopefully be STFU forever....And don't bitch...it's the same philosophy you have towards players...

http://www.nctcug.org/graphics/cpu25b4.gif

[whottt]

This was Chump last season when Hedo sucked and was started ahead of Manu...

Chump: Hedo>Manu...


He took nothing into account about how that switch transpired...it was just Hedo > Manu

Sensible poster: Well Hedo is starting because Hedo sucke,d it was to boost his confidence. It's not because Hedo is actully greater than Manu.

Chump: He is now. Manu sucks.

Chump:Manu sucks and dseserves to be the back up, Hedo's kicking ass, if I had to lean towards which one was better I'd have to admit I am leading towards Hedo.

He totally defended an inferior player being started ahead of a superior player. He wasn't singing doghouse thenm he was all over that guys jock...the only guy he doghoused was the guy who got fucked out of his starting spot.



We should not start Barry, especially over Manu, but jezus, this idea that, because they played bad they should be doghoused and never get any playing time is ridiculous...

And it's really ridiculous coming from Dump

Hedo> Manu remember?

[milkyway21]

how can barry prove his worth playing 5 and 6 minutes? dont yank him as soon as he misses one shot. i know what barry is going through. before i hardly used to handle the ball, so ppl didnt know my complete game, especially as a PG. but when im trusted more with it i do some good things. barry needs the minsI've been thinking about it, too! He can't prove anything if he'll just logged in 8 min.He impressed me one game when he played more minutes & was 4-4. I forgot the opponent. :depressed

[Kori Ellis]

Where would you draw the line with Barry? Would you let him play 10 minutes and suck before pulling him? 15 minutes?

It's so hard to draw that line if you know that you have other people on the bench worthy of the minutes.

I'm not disagreeing with playing him. I'm just saying it's very difficult to find the line.

Let's say you play him 12 mpg for the next 2 weeks and he still isn't performing. Do you still keep going to him? Increase his minutes even more?

[timvp]

Whottt doesn't like rewarding players for playing well. He wants Hubie Brown to coach and all players average 24 minutes per game.

:jack

[whottt]

And stop comparing Barry to Hedo as well...

Hedo: Traded here. Didn't want pressure. Didn't want to be the designated 3 shooter. More worried about getting his shots in a contract year than being productive int he role the team asked of him.


Brent Barry: Came here to take the big shots. Is more than happy to play off the bench. Is not worried about how many shots he is getting. Just wants to win. That is why he came here.

And he has hit big shots since he has been here.

Don't tell me we lose by playing Barry heavy minutes...we struggle and lose when we don't play him big minutes. It's not hard to see the trend: Detroit(not a good Detroit team when they are playing anyone besides the Spurs), Seattle, Houston.

Chicago and Boston might have ended up this same way if not for some big momentum keeping shots by Barry when it mattered...

And TimVP can refuse to give Barry a shred of praise for knocking down some clutch FT...and say Barry was just doing his job when hit those FT's...but conveniently ignoring the fact that everyone else was choking them...


Might be nice if the chosen ones were doing their jobs. Bench them, they lost a game....use the same standard.

Malik 0-5 2 rebounds in 25 minutes. Bench him.

[Kori Ellis]

So Whottt, how much would you play him?

Play him 24 mpg, leaving Devin with less than five minutes a game?

[Ghost Writer]

I agree.

Start Barry at the 3 over Bowen.

Bowen's D has never made up for his lack of offense.

You can justify starting Bowen on a tema like the Mavs or Suns or Kings taht has four star-quality scorers, but not on the Spurs who don't have any consistent scorers outside of Duncan.

[TwoHandJam]

Whottt doesn't like rewarding players for playing well. He wants Hubie Brown to coach and all players average 24 minutes per game.

:jack
Yeah, Barry sucks anyway. Players often fall off a cliff after shooting over 50% the previous year. Career .462 fg%, pfffft.

He blows. Trade him or continue playing him 6mpg and hope he recovers.

[Kori Ellis]

Barry doesn't suck permanently and will recover. But how many minutes would you play him while he's sucking? If he plays 20+ minutes and still sucks, how long would you let it continue?

[Manu20]

Barry doesn't suck permanently and will recover. But how many minutes would you play him while he's sucking? If he plays 20+ minutes and still sucks, how long would you let it continue?

5 games

[TwoHandJam]

So Whottt, how much would you play him?

Play him 24 mpg, leaving Devin with less than five minutes a game?You definitely give him Beno's minutes when he's sucking, which has been more than once this year. When Beno was running the show in the Seattle game he completely torpedoed any momentum we had. He didn't set players up and he was careless with the ball. Barry should have at least been given the opportunity to run the point a little.

He could also take some (small) minutes from Bowen when he isn't performing or Manu when he is gassed. I'm sure more than 6mpg could be had for him without penalizing Devin. I'd play him at least 12 mpg, every game.

[Manu20]

THJ, that is what I been thinking let Barry handle the backup PG for a few games and let see how it turns out.

[Kori Ellis]

@ Nuggets 27 mpg 0-3 on 3's
vs Jazz 20 mpg 0-2
@ Mavs 18 mpg 0-3
vs Sixers 19 mpg 0-3
vs Pistons 6 mpg 0-3
@ Bucks 15 mpg 0-3
@ Bulls 18 mpg 1-3

So those minutes weren't enough?

He was only considerably cut down in the last two games after that awful stretch of games above.

[TwoHandJam]

THJ, that is what I been thinking let Barry handle the backup PG for a few games and let see how it turns out.
I'd let him have some minutes at backup pg only when Beno is clearly struggling. Other than that, I wouldn't cut his minutes below 12mpg no matter how well Devin is playing. He's just proven to be too good a shooter over the years to banish him to the doghouse because of a slump. And his passing ain't bad either.

[whottt]

So Whottt, how much would you play him?

Play him 24 mpg, leaving Devin with less than five minutes a game?


More than 6 minutes in the second night of a back to back...when the previous night all our starters went 35+mins in an intense game.

How about enough minutes to where he fits into the team?

Devin should get more minutes than Barry, basd on play right now and honestly based on his play against LA but that doesn't mean Barry should be a non factor...we finally managed to find minutes for Kerr...even though Pop had to be kicked and drug into doing it...it helped us win a title.

Fact is, if Barry had done what Devin did last night you guys would crucify him. Clear double standard...Pop is deliberately making Barry the team bitch...even the announcers are noticing it.

I'm just left wondering if Pop is an idiot that didn't know what he was going to be getting when he signed Barry to that contract...pretty fucking stupid to pay a guy the MLE to be the 11thman. We might have been able to use that money to get Nicconi...or something.

[TwoHandJam]

@ Nuggets 27 mpg 0-3 on 3's
vs Jazz 20 mpg 0-2
@ Mavs 18 mpg 0-3
vs Sixers 19 mpg 0-3
vs Pistons 6 mpg 0-3
@ Bucks 15 mpg 0-3
@ Bulls 18 mpg 1-3

So those minutes weren't enough?

He was only considerably cut down in the last two games after that awful stretch of games above.
Kori, you can't argue with his poor play but you also can't expect a guy to find his rythm and find his way out of a slump playing 6mpg either, which is what he's got the last two games. If this is a trend in his mpg then it is very disturbing. What's more statistically significant, Barry's last 5 games or his stats from all of last year and his career fg%?

Pop himself has said that players take up to a year to get comfortable in the Spurs' system. Part of that "system" is getting to know your teammates and finding an offensive rythm. So far this year it's been up and down with Barry but he's just too good a shooter to fail for long.

I find it odd that Pop is willing to guarantee Beno, a rookie, 15 mpg regardless of his play yet won't guarantee Barry at least that to find his form again.

[T Park]

Maybe cause Beno has put up better numbers wise games than Barry has.

Milwaukee Beno was great and shot well.

Beno has had few and far between bad games this year.

Barry has pretty much stunk it up all year.

[Kori Ellis]

TwoHand, I don't think six mpg is going to be the norm for Barry. The Spurs know he has to get some court time to shoot his way out of it. But it just so happened that when Barry was playing poorly, Devin was doing well. So Devin worked his way into more minutes. Pop is higher on Barry than anyone. He knows he's a vital cog in the Spurs machine. He'll get his opportunities.

[TwoHandJam]

Maybe cause Beno has put up better numbers wise games than Barry has.

Milwaukee Beno was great and shot well.

Beno has had few and far between bad games this year.

Barry has pretty much stunk it up all year.
Please read and try to comprehend what I said before. It addresses everything you say here.

[TwoHandJam]

TwoHand, I don't think six mpg is going to be the norm for Barry. The Spurs know he has to get some court time to shoot his way out of it. But it just so happened that when Barry was playing poorly, Devin was doing well. So Devin worked his way into more minutes. Pop is higher on Barry than anyone. He knows he's a vital cog in the Spurs machine. He'll get his opportunities.
I hope you're right because the way Pop yanked Barry the last two games and didn't play him except in garbage time, didn't look to friendly to me.

[whottt]

Since we brought Barry here to hit pressure cooker shots...it might behoove(SP?) us to give him some shots in that situation...

He's hit those shots so far this season, inspite of cool first halves.

I say bring him in when our offense stagnates...like it has in the games where Barry hasn't seen the court...we should bring him in and see what he can do...guys is probably the best passer on the team, he is the most experienced guard on the team...

I don't really see Barry and Devin being the same type of player anyway.

I honestly think we are a better offensive team when Barry is on the court...even if he isn't hitting his shots...I have a feeling the stats would bear this out.

As well as our PPG totals in games he has played big minutes.

[whottt]

I honestly think Barry is bearing the brunt of Pop's frustration with Hedo...

Pop tried the nice patient approach with Hedo last season and it torched us in the playoffs(this is the one valid point Chump has made BTW)...and so now he is putting Barry's ass through the ringer to make him hard...to battle test him so to speak before the playoffs...No more Mr.NiceGuy...especially toa guy with Barry's experience and basketball IQ. It's not all wrong...but IMO we would have won some of these close games if Barry had gotten some minutes before we lost the leads.

As unforgiving as Pop has been...there is nothing more unforgiving that being the Spurs designated shooter in the post season...if you fail you will bear the brunt of the blame...and rightly so.


But Barry really isn't Hedo...Barry makes good decisions...even if his shot doesn't fall...he makes very intelligent passes, he does not turn the ball over stupidly, like virtually every other player on our team, including Tim Duncan.....and he takes good shots even if he isn't hitting them.

He helps our offense when he is in the game, and I don't see him being the defensive liability everyone else sees anyway...and if he is...it's not because of a lack of effort..perhaps he needs the game time to figure it out. Guy has not been asked to play a lot of D in his career.

[Kori Ellis]

Pop thinks Barry has the highest basketball IQ of any of the Spurs.

He's not rooting against him.

[timvp]

If Barry can't handle a couple of December benchings, the Spurs might as well waive him now.

Keep him sharp and fighting for his spot in the rotation. Don't give him pity minutes.

Earn.

[ChumpDumper]

I can't believe you "hardasses" want to give Shane Barry welfare minutes.

LJ is right, earn the fucking minutes.

Devin did.

And he had plenty of six minute games.

[whottt]

If Barry can't handle a couple of December benchings, the Spurs might as well waive him now.

Keep him sharp and fighting for his spot in the rotation. Don't give him pity minutes.

Earn.

We need all our shooters to be getting minutes...hot or cold, if we want to win a title.

We do not have pure clutch this season...at least that we know of...No Jax...we also no longer have the greatest 3 shooter in history, Steve Kerr, on our bench.

But we do have enough guys to use the saturation bombing method,IE, Beno, Manu, Parker, Horry, Devin, and Bruce...they can't all go cold at the same time. It's impossible to fathom that happening.

The saturation bombing approach... this is actually what the 93-94 Rockets did in the regular season, and it turned them into IMO the clutchest team in NBA history.....but Rudy was pretty patient with those guys...It's not like these guys are Antoine Walker or anything...just stick with them when they struggle...you definitely go with the hot hands...but that doesn't mean you ice the guys because they struggled at one point.

I could handle what Pop is doing better if I thought Barry wasn't trying...if I thought he was playing stupid...but IMO he's just not hitting his shots right now...he's not playing stupid. As for his D...Spurs D takes a while to pick up. Especially for an old dog like Barry who has never been asked to play D like this. I know he is trying to play the D...he knew he was going to have to play D on the Spurs.

[ChumpDumper]

Takes fucking balls to sit and make derisive Hedo comments ass breath, you were the one defending that move. Holy shit what in the fuck is wrong withy you? You were one with your head up Hedo's ass last season.Had no choice last year.

RIF.
You were alsot he one who wanted Charlie Ward.I heard no objection from you
You were also the one who defended Pop's benching of Malik.Malik agreed with me. Go figure.
You talked shit to me this past summer and said Malik was going to suck.Link? I said play him or trade him you stupid fuck. We are playing him and Malik is playing much better than last year.
You a fucking moron because you sit there say a guy is shit if he plays 4 or 5 bad games and you say he belong on the bench...asswipe how the fuck do you expect them to get better if they don't get any playing time you dumbass.Devin Brown has kicked your argument in the balls 20 times over. He earned his minutes like the man you aren't and think Barry isn't.

No welfare.

[whottt]

.Devin Brown has kicked your argument in the balls 20 times over. He earned his minutes like the man you aren't and think Barry isn't.

No welfare.


I thought I told you to shut the fuck up?

[whottt]

And BTW, I'll ignore your spin...as for Devin..I wanted to start Devin ahead of Bowen in the summer....I knew he was going to be a good player.

I'm the guy with the fetish for players who can hit threes in the playoffs, remember?

[ChumpDumper]

And BTW, I'll ignore your spin...as for Devin..I wanted to start Devin ahead of Bowen in the summer....I knew he was going to be a good player.And now you want to cut his minutes for Shane Barry's welfare minutes.

You shut the fuck up and give Shane a hug.

[whottt]

You are so fucking full of shit Chump...

Last year we had no choice but to start Hedo? Not that I was against the move...I just knew it wasn't because
Manu sucked and I knew it damn sure wasn't because Hedo> Manu in any way shape or form......

But why didn't we have choice? Because we were losing?

Guess what....we don't have choice this year if that is your criteria.

Reduced minutes for Barry pretty much = an offensive meltdown, in case you haven't been paying attention...Yes he is that good of an offensive player, hitting his shots or not(never mind the fact that he has hit shots late in close games)

When Barry gets minutes our O is ahead of schedule for this early in the season...when he is on the bench we are the same old 4th quarter lead blowing Spurs we usually are early in the season.

Figure it out. Be on the right side of a debate for once.

[ChumpDumper]

Last year we had no choice but to start Hedo? Not that I was against the move...I just knew it wasn't because
Manu sucked and I knew it damn sure wasn't because Hedo> Manu in any way shape or form.....Then why act like you disagree?
But why didn't we have choice? Because we were losing?No, because we didn't have any other swingmen to take the minutes in the rotation. Now we do.
Reduced minutes for Barry pretty much = an offensive meltdown, in case you haven't been paying attention.So you are saying Manu and Devin suck and the only thing that can save the Spurs is 30 mpg of Barry's 20% shooting. We get it. You like playing shooters who can't shoot because maybe someday they'll shoot again.

Quit insulting the players who actually do well. It's pathetic.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

@ Nuggets 27 mpg 0-3 on 3's
vs Jazz 20 mpg 0-2
@ Mavs 18 mpg 0-3
vs Sixers 19 mpg 0-3
vs Pistons 6 mpg 0-3
@ Bucks 15 mpg 0-3
@ Bulls 18 mpg 1-3

Great, he's getting half as many shots as that offensive juggernaut Bruce Bowen, and we're supposed to crucify him for it. I think Barry's probably wondering the same thing I am - why the hell we paid him that contract and fell over ourselves talking about him as a great sixth man, and then treating him like he's the 12th man on the bench, and only good enough to see minutes in garbage time (if that).

[Kori Ellis]

Those are just his 3's AHF.

[ChumpDumper]

I think Barry's probably wondering the same thing I am - why the hell we paid him that contract and fell over ourselves talking about him as a great sixth manGive him a hug.

Give Devin the minutes.

Barry said he has to earn back the minutes.

You pussies don't believe he can do it without welfare minutes.

I do.

Devin did it.

[timvp]

Peeps who are saying that Pop is against Barry playing well are high. Before Barry starting pulling a Hedo, Pop went on record as saying his goal was to split the minutes equally between Manu, Bowen and Barry. He didn't say anything about Brown.

Now Brown went out there ... played well in garbage minutes and earned more time. Played well, earned even more minutes.

Now here we are.

If Barry wants minutes, let him earn it.

He's a man.

[SuperManu!!!]

I don't think Hedo become an starter to boost his confidence. At the time, he had better numbers than Manu but Manu proved to be better in the end.

Now, it you people think that an NBA player needs to become an starter to have confidence....you are wrong!!! These are professional players for god's sake!!! Stop babysitting them! They win millions playing in what they like, so if they want confidence and respect, EARN IT!! Look at rose, last year he almost didn't play. And Devin won his minutes, so don't give a prize to whom doesn't deserves it. End of story

[whottt]

Then why act like you disagree?

I disagree that we had no other choice but to start Hedo over Manu. And we had Devin Brown last season as well.



No, because we didn't have any other swingmen to take the minutes in the rotation.

Um, dipshit...that doesn't mean we had to reward Hedo for sucking. But that's just what we did...and you were all over defending it..and evne worse...you were on the Hedo>Manu side. So STFUF, and don't call others out for wanting to do something similar to what you yourself defended relentlessly last season.

I am not the only one that saw you do it...your spinning won't save you here. Everyone knows the score.


Now we do.





So you are saying Manu and Devin suck and the only thing that can save the Spurs is 30 mpg of Barry's 20% shooting. We get it. You like playing shooters who can't shoot because maybe someday they'll shoot again.

Checked the stats on it?








Quit insulting the players who actually do well. It's pathetic.

Yawn typical Chump meltdown...getting your ass kicked in an argument and then trying to get off the subject...been there done that...YAWN.

If they are doing so well then how come we are losing? Hmmm? Answer that bitch...According to you....It's not Pop's fault..our offense rules ass...

Oh I get it...this is the kinder and more patient Chump that sticks with players...LOL.

I guess it's the six minutes Barry plays.

Hedo>Manu....hypocrite.

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

I don't think Hedo become an starter to boost his confidence. At the time, he had better numbers than Manu but Manu proved to be better.

Now, it you people think that an NBA player needs to become an starter to have confidence....you are wrong!!! These are professional players for god's sake!!! Stop babysitting them! They win millions playing in what they like, so if they want confidence and respect, EARN IT!! Look at rose, last year he almost didn't play. And Devin won his minutes, so don't give a prize to whom doesn't deserves it. End of story

Oh, if only you knew about Hedo.

[ChumpDumper]

I disagree that we had no other choice but to start Hedo over Manu. And we had Devin Brown last season as well.Devin was no where near where he is now and you know it. Oh yeah, you wanted more Mercer.
If they are doing so well then how come we are losing?What's our record again?
Hedo>Manu....hypocrite.Never said it and your stupid ass knows it.

[SuperManu!!!]

Oh, if only you knew about Hedo.
What are you trying to say my friend?

[ChumpDumper]

We lost to Seattle because they own us. Ray Allen owns us. Danny Fortson owns us. Antonio Daniels owns us. The Sonics are better than the Spurs.

We lost to the Rockets because of the sloppiest three minutes of basketball ever played by a Spur team. I am very confident that each Spur who fucked up won't do the same thing again.

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

What are you trying to say my friend?

That was EXACTLY what happened with Hedo last year!

[whottt]

When Brent Barry plays +10 minutes(and BTW I am not advocating he play 20 mins right now, just more than 6-9)...

Barry >10mins:
W-L:15-3
Scoring differential:+13.27 PPG Spurs
Average PPG:97pp

Barry<10mins:
W-L:1-2
Scoring differential:-4 Spurs
Average PPG:85



It works out even better if you do the games he played 20 an minutes...but because I didn't want anyone pissing their pants over my saying Barry should play 20 minutes...I just did it at 10.

[whottt]

Oh yeah, you wanted more Mercer.
Mercer nutted up and won an NCAA title...what's Hedo won?




What's our record again?

With Barry playing less than 10 mins? 1-2.

[ChumpDumper]

The Spurs' record was inflated by games against weak and injured teams. Too bad Shane folds when the going gets tough.

Fully one third of Devin's games have been 10min or less.

We don't have to treat Barry like the pussy you think he is.

[ChumpDumper]

Mercer nutted up and won an NCAA title.LMFAO!

"I saw him play good once -- so he will always be good."

Heal and Mercer should have fininshed every game.

[ChumpDumper]

what's Hedo won?What's Barry won?

Is that why you want to treat him exactly like Hedo?

[milkyway21]

Where would you draw the line with Barry? Would you let him play 10 minutes and suck before pulling him? 15 minutes?

It's so hard to draw that line if you know that you have other people on the bench worthy of the minutes.

I'm not disagreeing with playing him. I'm just saying it's very difficult to find the line.

Let's say you play him 12 mpg for the next 2 weeks and he still isn't performing. Do you still keep going to him? Increase his minutes even more?I think I am not the only one who wants Barry to play more minutes. Didn't even consider trying that option for 2 weeks :blah . What about a wk? 4-5 games? He has not shown his full potential yet maybe bec. his minutes were reduced. I can't think of any other solution...Okay, let's just leave on the BENCH! :pctoss

[whottt]

The Spurs' record was inflated by games against weak and injured teams.

You mean like the world beating 7-9 Rockets without Jim Jackson?

You mean the game where we got our ass kicked by a player who lead his team to a 19 game losing streak last season?

And oh yeah...Devin had absolutely nothing to do with that loss last night...I mean no one could even make a case for it...






Too bad Shane folds when the going gets tough.

Um...you must not have watched last nights game, the second Seattle game, or the Detroit game. That's called folding.

And we've done it more times in the 3 games where Barry has been on the bench than we have in the 18 he wasn't.

But a dipshit like yourself figures the 18 games are the untrustworthy sample size...and 2 loss in 3 games are proof what we are doing is working...

You fucking stupid. I'm sorry but you are.






Fully one third of Devin's games have been 10min or less.


Yeah, and you want to know something amazing...our record in games where Devin plays 10 mins or less is nearly identical to the games where Barry plays 10 mins or more...amazing how that works...




We don't have to treat Barry like the pussy you think he is.:

LOL...you don't even care about winning or losing...keeping Barry on the bench is more important to you.


And what's really funny...I could have sworn you liked pussies last year...I mean you were on Hedo's...

"I'm leaning towards Hedo"

L O L!

[ChumpDumper]

You mean like the world beating 7-9 Rockets without Jim Jackson?The Mavs without Finley -- twice.

The Grizz without Gasol (oh, we lost that one even though Barry the welfare case played 28 minutes -- nevermind)

The Nuggets without KMart.

The Jazz without AK.

The Knicks without Houston.

The Heat without Wade.

The Lakers without George or Divac.

Etc.
But a dipshit like yourself figures the 18 games are the untrustworthy sample size.It isn't -- See the above list.
LOL...you don't even care about winning or losing...keeping Barry on the bench is more important to you. No I want the players who have earned the minutes to play them. Barry wants to earn his minutes back. Why do you want to give him welfare?
And what's really funny...I could have sworn you liked pussies last year...I mean you were on Hedo's jock...Explaining to you idiots what Pop does doen't mean I'm on anyone's jock. You can take anything out of context you like, but all you want is welfare minutes for undeserving players.

You thought the Spurs were better than they really are. I said their record was inflated You can joke about Hedo, but you want to turn Barry into Hedo with your welfare plan.

No free rides.

Earn your minutes.

Period.

[whottt]

What's Barry won?

Is that why you want to treat him exactly like Hedo?

I don't want to treat him like Hedo...and actually...what we did with Hedo was best option...not the only option..and it damn sure didn't mean Hedo>Manu.

And at the same time...I'm not stupid enough to say Barry sucks for the same reason I wasn't willing to say Hedo > Manu.

Because neither is true.

I'm sorry but 15-3 is equal the best start in team history...and it was done with Brent Barry playing 10+ mins per game...actually it was 20+ mins per game in all but 2 of them and never less than 15...and if you had been watching, he did hit big shots in some of those games...

[whottt]

And by the way...our 1-2 record in the 6 mins of Brent Barry era?

The one win he came in and hit two clutch shots.

So shut the fuck up about calling guys pussies.

[whottt]

The Mavs without Finley -- twice.

Period.

You didn't explain what Pop did last with Hedo and Manu...I fucking did...

You were the dumbass saying Manu played like shit and you were leaning towards Hedo.

On top of that...you said Manu didn't have a problem coming off the bench when I was sitting there posting fucking quotes of him saying he didn't like it and was only doing it for the team.

And what did Chump say? I'm leaning towards Hedo...

Matter of fact, I am pretty sure you callled Manu a pussy also...

[ChumpDumper]

I don't want to treat him like HedoDon't front -- it's exaclty what you want
...and actually...what we did with Hedo was best option...not the only optionthen why are you arguing against it retroactively?
and it damn sure didn't mean Hedo>Manu.Duh.
I'm not stupid enough to say Barry sucks for the same reason I wasn't willing to say Hedo > Manu. I'm not afraid to say when a player is sucking and should have to earn back his minutes. You are.
I'm sorry but 15-3 is equal the best start in team historyArtificailly inflated as I showed you. 70 wins indeed.
and if you had been watching, he did hit big shots in some of those games...And now he's hitting 20% and getting killed on D. That's his problem.
So shut the fuck up about calling guys pussies.You are the one who thinks he's a pussy who can't play like that again without the Hedo treatment.

No welfare.

[ChumpDumper]

You didn't explain what Pop did last with Hedo and Manu...I fucking did..Bullshit.
You were the dumbass saying Manu played like shit and you were leaning towards Hedo.No, you stupid piece of shit.
On top of that...you said Manu didn't have a problem coming off the bench when I was sitting there posting fucking quotes of him saying he didn't like it and was only doing it for the team.And you said he'd be gone this summer because of it.
Matter of fact, I am pretty sure you callled Manu a pussy also...Nope. I said he's a pussy if he can't take the benching. He did, ergo not a pussy. It's nice that you can just make up things now. Go fuck yourself and leave the basketball to the men who can earn their minutes.

[whottt]

The Mavs without Finley -- twice. blah blah blah



Period.

Pistons with Dykes and Coleman injured, Campbell out for the game and Wallace first game back from a suspension.

Piss poor Rockets team to begin with, without Jackson and Ward(your key to a championship)...two starters...and their leading 3 point shooter and third leading scorer.


And BTW...how hard is it to figure out that the reason we are losing to Seattle have nothing to do with Brent Barry and every thing to do with Bruce Bowen getting his ass kicked into the dirt by Allen...

C'mon Chump...call out those responsible as well as you do those that aren't..for once.

[ChumpDumper]

Pistons with Dykes and Coleman injured, Campbell out for the game and Wallace first game back from a suspension.

Piss poor Rockets team to begin with, without Jackson and Ward(your key to a championship)...two starters...and their leading 3 point shooter and third leading scorer.
Thanks for supporting my point. The Spurs aren't as good as you thought.
And BTW...how hard is it to figure out that the reason we are losing to Seattle have nothing to do with Brent Barry and every thing to do with Bruce Bowen getting his ass kicked into the dirt by Allen..Um, read up a little higher in the thread dumbass. I can't do everything for you.

[whottt]

Duh.I'm not afraid to say when a player is sucking and should have to earn back his minutes.


Oh it just depends...but basically you're right..you aren't afraid to say a player sucks...in fact, you are so unafraid of saying that a player sucks you don't even care why they might be sucking, or if your criticism is accurate.

Unless of course they choke away a 10 point lead in 35 seconds...and then you are all forgiveness.

[whottt]

Thanks for supporting my point. The Spurs aren't as good as you thought.

Actually...we were off to the best start in team history...until...So unfortunately for you there's not much evidence to prove we weren't as good as I thought...


Plenty of evidence to prove that not playing Barry in the second half hurts the team a hell of a lot more than it hurts Barry.

[ChumpDumper]

Oh it just depends...but basically you're right..you aren't afraid to say a player sucks...in fact, you are so unafraid of saying that a player sucks you don't even care why they might be sucking, or if your criticism is accurate.You don't care if a player sucks as long as he gets his quota of minutes you have determined based on his NCAA career or one game you saw during the Olympics.

I think .200 shooting for one of the best shooters in the NBA sucks. It's difficult to care why.

[ChumpDumper]

Actually...we were off to the best start in team history.Inflated. You ignored it at your peril. The closer to full strength the opponent -- the worse the Spurs looked -- something you ignored completely in your 70-win projections.
Plenty of evidence to prove that not playing Barry in the second half hurts the team a hell of a lot more than it hurts Barry.He played more than Bowen and Brown the first Seattle game, one minute less than Manu. That didn't hurt at all.

What's the quota again?

[ChumpDumper]

Plenty of evidence to prove that not playing Barry in the second half hurts the team a hell of a lot more than it hurts Barry.Plenty of evidence that he was playing a lot of garbage time in blowouts against crappy/injured teams.

[whottt]

Actually...like with Hedo last season...I look at more than just PPG to determine if a player sucks or not...

I look at things like TO's...TO's per 48 minutes...

I pretty much realize that there is no way to blow 10 point leads in 35 seconds without turning the ball over..

I pretty much realize that the collapse of an offense in the 4th quarter goes hand in hand with TO's...

And then I just simply look and see that Barry has the best assist to TO ratio on the team and by far...far and away...so far it's not even close...the fewers TO's per 48 minutes on the entire team....

Then it's pretty easy for me to figure out why our offense looks so Un Spur like with Barry getting minutes..and why it looks so incredibly Spur like when he isn't...Kinda goes hand in hand with that high basketball IQ thing...

But you go ahead dumb ass and keep ingnoring the facts.

[ChumpDumper]

Actually...like with Hedo last season...I look at more than just PPG to determine if a player sucks or not...I look to see if he's hitting his shots like one of the best shooters in the league should, too.

.200 sucks.

If you want to put him in at the very end of last nights game to hold on to the ball or shoot free throws (he was out there the last play), I don't have a problem with it. Your quota bullshit is just that though -- bullshit.

[timvp]

Actually...like with Hedo last season...I look at more than just PPG to determine if a player sucks or not...

I look at things like TO's...TO's per 48 minutes...

I pretty much realize that there is no way to blow 10 point leads in 35 seconds without turning the ball over..

I pretty much realize that the collapse of an offense in the 4th quarter goes hand in hand with TO's...

And then I just simply look and see that Barry has the best assist to TO ratio on the team and by far...far and away...so far it's not even close...the fewers TO's per 48 minutes on the entire team....

Actually, the correct answer is Bruce Bowen.

But yeah, please continue.

:rollin

[ChumpDumper]

Don't confuse him with facts, he doesn't need them.

Just quotas.

[whottt]

Actually, the correct answer is Bruce Bowen.

But yeah, please continue.

:rollin

Um the question wasn't who is Ray Allen's bitch...

[ChumpDumper]

Yeah, we shoulda had Barry on Allen the entire game.

Lockdown.

[timvp]

Um the question wasn't who is Ray Allen's bitch...

Check to see who has the lowest turnovers per 48 minutes.

Apologize.

[ChumpDumper]

Nah, he'll try to change the subject again.

[whottt]

I'm sorry, we were talking about ball handlers and I made the assumption that you guys would realize that...shooh....I was talking guards and Duncan.

On second thought...my bad...Bruce usually is our main offensive weapon in the 4th...I guess now we know why. Somehow I don't think it's as funny as you do.

[ChumpDumper]

the fewers TO's per 48 minutes on the entire team.

[whottt]

Yeah, we shoulda had Barry on Allen the entire game.

Lockdown.

Nah can't put Barry on Allen...we might lose.

[ChumpDumper]

we might lose.We did. No matter what.

We're owned.

[whottt]

We did. No matter what.

We're owned.

Which means your statement about putting Barry on Allen was fucking as impotent as the rest of your argument. Thanks. I knew we lost to Seattle.












Yes I knew we lost twice.

[timvp]

Nice spin there, whotttt.

Now if Barry would put half that much effort into defending his position, even if by smoke, mirrors and lies, then he'd actually get to play.

:smokin

[whottt]

To Seattle that is...just want to make sure you guys don't get confused. I won't overestimate again.

[ChumpDumper]

Which means your statement about putting Barry on Allen was fucking as impotent as the rest of your argumentThe more Barry played against Seattle, the worse the loss. Go figure.

Apologize to LJ.

[whottt]

I won't overestimate again.


By overestimate again, I mean overestimate you guys.

[ChumpDumper]

I won't overestimate again.Like you did with the win total?

[whottt]

The more Barry played against Seattle, the worse the loss. Go figure.

Actually, I blame Devin's 24 minutes for that.

Hey what is our record when Devin plays 20+ minutes anyway?




Apologize to LJ.

For what? AJ's jumpshot?

[whottt]

Like you did with the win total?

No, like I did your basketball IQ and Pop's ability to utilize talent.

[ChumpDumper]

the fewers TO's per 48 minutes on the entire team.It's fun for you to make up stuff.

[timvp]

Whottt wants players who are sucking to play more minutes so that the Spurs can win more.

Riiiiiight.

[timvp]

AJ's jumpshot?

How many championship winning shots have Robert Horry, Shane Heal, Ron Mercer, Tim Derk, Brent Barry and The Coyote hit combined?

That's what I thought.

[whottt]

Whottt wants players who are sucking to play more minutes so that the Spurs can win more.

Riiiiiight.

As oppposed to players "who don't suck" and losing more...yes.

[ChumpDumper]

It's the qwhottta system.

Do us a favor and Gillooly some stars on our next few opponents. It'll make the Spurs look good again.

[timvp]

Whottt's basketball knowledge can be summed up by his own signature.

Nice.

[timvp]

And his avatar won't play a minute this year.

Also telling.

[whottt]

How many championship winning shots have Robert Horry, Shane Heal, Ron Mercer, Tim Derk, Brent Barry and The Coyote hit combined?

That's what I thought.





By default someone has to hit a championship winning shot every year...some are more spectacular than others...but since's that's the criteria...


Retire Stephen Jackson's jersey then since he did it in 03.

Not impressed...



Now going 1-26 from three 3 point range in the playoffs in a 19 year career as a PG in the shotclock era...and still getting your jersey retired?

Now that's fucking rare....that impresses me...
















Specially since weak ass Horry has more 3 pointers just in the NBA finals than AJ has in his entire career, playoffs and regular season, combined....and no one is retiring his jersey.

[ChumpDumper]

And Barry's 1-for-December performance from the arc means he must play more.

Such is the logic of the qwhottta system.

[timvp]

Since when did three-pointers mean more than just an extra point? Hell, I'll take two AJ layups over your Shane Heal three anyday.

Are you in love with the three-point shot? If the NBA did away with it, you'd probably be a full-time wrestling fan.

You know that Tim Derk isn't related to Dirk Nowitzki, right?

[whottt]

And his avatar won't play a minute this year.

Also telling.


And you wanted AJ as an active guard this year...and even AJ said he was finished...if that's not telling I don't know what is.

Anyway, sorry to hear my boy Sato won't get playing time...was hoping he'd be the one to replace Barry when Pop moves the worst player in NBA history to the IR.

At least then people would shut the fuck up about defense and we could choke away games in peace.

[whottt]

Since when did three-pointers mean more than just an extra point?


So tell me...what's your problem with Brent Barry again?

[timvp]

And you wanted AJ as an active guard this year...and even AJ said he was finished...if that's not telling I don't know what is.

Anyway, sorry to hear my boy Sato won't get playing time...was hoping he'd be the one to replace Barry when Pop moves the worst player in NBA history to the IR.

At least then people would shut the fuck up about defense and we could choke away games in peace.

I wanted AJ for his leadership. Don't get it twisttted.

[timvp]

So tell me...what's your problem with Brent Barry again?

Tell him to make one of your beloved three-pointers and play something resembling defense, then he'll get to play.

Simple formula.

[timvp]

No comment about Whottt giving up on Devin Brown after 10 games.

Interesting.

[ChumpDumper]

Tell him to make one of your beloved three-pointersHe's already made one this month. Lay off.

[whottt]

I wanted AJ for his leadership. Don't get it twisttted.


That's good because he wasn't going to offer anything else...

I've really got no problem with you liking AJ's leadership abilities...

I've got tremendous problems with you wanting to put them on the court and take up a roster spot.

[timvp]

That's good because he wasn't going to offer anything else...

I've really got no problem with you liking AJ's leadership abilities...

I've got tremendous problems with you wanting to put them on the court and take up a roster spot.

Putting him on IR or using him as the 12th man wouldn't have hurt anything. Does Mike Wilks make a difference one way or the other?

Didn't think so.

[whottt]

Putting him on IR or using him as the 12th man wouldn't have hurt anything.


It would have if we'd had to play him....why not just offer him the open assistant coaching position?


Does Mike Wilks make a difference one way or the other?.

Mike Wilks is just AJ without David Robinson.

Kindness.

[whottt]

No comment about Whottt giving up on Devin Brown after 10 games.

Interesting.

I didn't give up Devin Brown, just like I don't hate Bruce Bowen.....I'm just giving out the same unjustified and impatient hate you guys are putting on Barry...We are a better team when Barry is getting minutes, becuase he does make smart decisions with the ball, he keeps men off of Duncan and he doesnn't turn it over.... You guys are the ones making it a pissing contest of Barry VS Devin...Or at least you are defending Pop doing it...even when were melting down offensively in the second half because of it.

As for Barry VS Devin... I've already seen then both play 20 minutes in the same game this year...I don't understand what the problem is...espcially since Manu shouldn't get a lot of minutes...and since Bowen's age is showing.

W-L is the ultimate stat and it doesn't lie...

You guys are getting your line up out on the court...we are losing and you guys are just making excuses...

I didn't have to make any excuses prior to this happening.

Pop's fucking up. Plain and simple. Just like he did with Malik last year...

[orhe]

it's not really mpg that should be our concern... it's plays per game :O...
the spurs just ain't running plays for brent barry anymore, in fact i've seen them give devin brown more plays in a game than 3 games for brent barry O_O

well im saying, give brent barry 20 mpg... and run some plays for him where he actually shoots the ball.

[TwoHandJam]

Barry will return to form and earn more minutes but he doesn't deserve to be reduced to 6mpg to try and do it. That is not a constructive way to treat a proven shooter like him. Devin worked his way into more minutes over two years learning the Spurs system. He was totally unproven so he got at least a year of garbage time. We don't have that time for Barry and we shouldn't treat him like we do.

Barry is an experienced vet and has shot better last year and over his career than almost every guard in the NBA. Yes he can "earn more minutes" but his past accomplishments should dictate that he not be treated like a rookie who's banished to garbage time when he doesn't produce. This is how Pop's been treating him the last two games.

Barry has proven more in this league in terms of being a sharpshooter and distributer than Devin has and probably will over his career. He deserves more than 6mpg to break out of a slump, and it doesn't have to be at the expense of any big minutes from Devin.

[ALVAREZ6]

Why would Barry start, Barry isn't showing that he knows how to play. He's missing all of his wide open shots.

Barry shouldn't start over Manu, no way.

[ChumpDumper]

Yes he can "earn more minutes" but his past accomplishments should dictate that he not be treated like a rookie who's banished to garbage time when he doesn't produce.You're absolutely right.

Sincerely,

Ron Mercer

Sorry guys, Devin did it the right way. His minutes were limited early for a reason -- he wasn't defending well and he was very indecisive on offense. He improved -- lo and behold, his minutes increased. No welfare minutes needed.

Since Barry is the seasoned vet who can play so well as all of you are so fond of saying, he can do the same. Quit selling him short. You're insulting him with your welfare offers.

Brent Barry does not need your charity.

[whottt]

1w-2l

[ChumpDumper]

1 for December

[whottt]

I guess that's worse.

Please don't reproduce.

[ChumpDumper]

For one of the best shooters in the NBA, it is.

Especially when you want to reward him for it.

No welfare.

No qwotttas.

[whottt]

I'd rather reward the Spurs second half O.

[ChumpDumper]

You mean 0, not O.

That's the number of shots Barry hit.

Reward him with welfare.

[ALVAREZ6]

it's not really mpg that should be our concern... it's plays per game :O...
the spurs just ain't running plays for brent barry anymore, in fact i've seen them give devin brown more plays in a game than 3 games for brent barry O_O

well im saying, give brent barry 20 mpg... and run some plays for him where he actually shoots the ball.

when barry is shooting , he's missing.

Brown deserves plays, he's kocking down his shots.

Either way, what's more important is how each player helps the team to win.
Everyone looks at how the players play individually,
but what really matters is if the team wins, or loses.
As long as the Spurs are winning, who cares what happens.

[ChumpDumper]

The precedents are so clear it's not even funny.

Barry is playing like Steve Smith, so you want to treat him like Hedo.

Quit insulting Brent Barry.

[ChumpDumper]

I've got to start back at square one and try and earn back some minutes by playing, first of all, better on the defensive end. Then, hopefully, my offensive game will find itself again.Let the man be a man.

No welfare.

[whottt]

Too bad for you that stupidity doesn't translate to wins.

[ChumpDumper]

Yeah, it's stupid to not give Barry 30mpg of .210 shooting this month.

What was I thinking? That's better than any other guard on the Spurs, right?

Let's lie about that stat too -- you lied earlier about his TOs

[whottt]

No, I didn't and he leads the team in 2 pt pct as well...and this time I do mean out of everyone...


I await your next excuse.

[ChumpDumper]

No, I didn'tYes, LJ owned you severely on that one. You still owe him an apology.

Nice attempt at trying to change the subject.

Again.

[whottt]

Hedo>Manu

Ward>Shit

1w-2l>15w-3l

Losing stupidly>winning with a highly skilled 2 guard in a 3pt shooting slump.


Any other nuggets of stupidity you want to toss out there?

[whottt]

Yes, LJ owned you severely on that one. You still owe him an apology.

Nice attempt at trying to change the subject.

Again.

Um I'll apologize to him when he admits that he was wrong for wanting AJ to be the third string PG.

AJ retired himself...he didn't even want to be on the IR.

In lieu of that...I think it's pretty obvious that he prefers to lose games as long as we have weak shooting scrubs trying hard to play d.

[whottt]

And I'll worry about what you think I should do when you admit you were wrong on any one of the 100% arguments you have been proved wrong with me.

[ChumpDumper]

Really, if all you wanted was a guy who can't shoot the three but has a good 2pt %, can't defend but handles the ball well and does not turn it over much....
http://www.jsonline.com/sports/buck/image/play/av616.jpg

LJ and AJ accept your apology.

[TwoHandJam]

You're absolutely right.

Sincerely,

Ron Mercer

Is Ron Mercer a sharpshooter? Did Ron Mercer shoot 50% the year before joining the Spurs? Are Ron Mercer's apg numbers even remotely comparable to Barry's? Does Mercer do anything for a team when his shot isn't falling?

Thanks for playing.

[ChumpDumper]

Is Ron Mercer a sharpshooter?Whottt said he was, take it up with him.
Did Ron Mercer shoot 50% the year before joining the Spurs?Ron shot better with the Spurs -- shouldn't the sharpshooter Barry be able to shoot at least as well as the year before?

[whottt]

I'm glad he accepts it...

Meanwhile..you compared AJ and Brent Barry as being similar type 3 shooters...Apologize...it was much more wrong than me being right about Barry being the least TO prone ballhandler on the team.

[TwoHandJam]

Ron shot better with the Spurs -- shouldn't the sharpshooter Barry be able to shoot at least as well as the year before?
Let's not compare 20 games with a full season. I know you can be obstinate but that's downright stupid. If Pop starts giving Barry more than 6mpg for the rest of the season, I guarantee you he'll blow Mercer out of the water in terms of fg%. His years in the league bear that out quite convincingly.

[whottt]

Let's not compare 20 games with a full season. I know you can be obstinate but that's downright stupid.

No, that's Chump...you are arguing with an "it" that thinks Brent Barry and AJ are similar type shooters. See above.

You are also arguing with an "it" that enjoys losing as long as Brent Barry is getting punished for being in a shooting slump.

[ChumpDumper]

If Pop starts giving Barry more than 6mpg for the rest of the season....it will be because he's playing better. I'm sure he will. But no welfare, no qwhotttas -- he's above that.

[ChumpDumper]

Sorry hootie, you can't go back on your entire basketball philosophy. You want to bench guys who are shooting .478, .408 and .345 from the arc for a guy who's shooting .293.

That's welfare.

[whottt]

Sorry hootie, you can't go back on your entire basketball philosophy. You want to bench guys who are shooting .478, .408 and .345 from the arc for a guy who's shooting .293.

That's welfare.

Typical stupidity from you...I just want more than 6-9 minutes and a first half yanking only to be put in on the last play of the game to inbound the ball. I also wouldn't mind a few more 2 point attempts...


You, OTOH are an idiot who would be happy going 0-82 as long Pop was coaching the team...and no one was being "given welfare".

[ChumpDumper]

I just want more than 6-9 minutes and a first half yanking.Yes, you explained your qwhotta system of undeserved minutes. No need to repeat it.

Barry wants to earn the minutes back. He doesn't want your charity.

[ChumpDumper]

You, OTOH are an idiot who would be happy going 0-82 as long Pop was coaching the team.Nah, I'd be for a change if he was actually the problem. I would want Pop gone if he went back to a qwhottta system when the players he had made it unnecessary.

Barry is better than you think he is. Quit disrespecting him.

[whottt]

He doesn't want your charity.


You, OTOH are an idiot who would be happy going 0-82 as long Pop was coaching the team...and no one was being "given welfare".

[ChumpDumper]

I've got to start back at square one and try and earn back some minutes by playing, first of all, better on the defensive end. Then, hopefully, my offensive game will find itself again.

[whottt]

Nah, I'd be for a change if he was actually the problem.

Steve Smith, trading Steve Kerr, benching Steve Kerr, Anthony Carter.

Most of the other examples of shitty or misused PG in this thread were his signings as well.


I know, I know...not his fault.


I would want Pop gone if he went back to a qwhottta system when the players he had made it unnecessary.

Barry is better than you think he is. Quit disrespecting him.

Stop doing that.

[Athenea]

I can't believe you "hardasses" want to give Shane Barry welfare minutes.

LJ is right, earn the fucking minutes.

Devin did.

And he had plenty of six minute games.
Well, Chump...I remember last year you had the exact oppossite position in the Hedo-Manu saga.
You supported an inferior player over a superior one. Now u are having a equity attack :p
"earn the fucking starter spot :drunk
Hedo did" :drunk :drunk

[ALVAREZ6]

Hedo>Manu



are you kidding me????

Hedo... better than Manu.....?

have you been :smokin lately?

[whottt]

Barry owning up


What an unaccouable POS, it's obvious he is causing us to lose games...I mean fuck we were only 15-3 with him as a major part of the rotation.

Bench that fucker until he is dead.

[ChumpDumper]

You supported an inferior player over a superior one. Nope, I supported starting Hedo because Manu was good enough to play in any situation. Hedo didn't earn the spot -- never said he did.
Stop doing that.Stop disrespecting him.

[ChumpDumper]

Bench that fucker until he is dead.Bench him until he plays better.

Devin did it without welfare.

Why can't Barry?

[whottt]

Bench him until he plays better.

Devin did it without welfare.

Why can't Barry?

Because we are 1-2 without Barry getting Welfare...that's why.

[SequSpur]

Manu plays out of control half the time.

[ALVAREZ6]

whoa, whottt has 2 spurs.
thats awesomew

[whottt]

Nope, I supported starting Hedo because Manu was good enough to play in any situation. Hedo didn't earn the spot -- never said he did.

No, you just said Hedo>Manu because of it.

[ChumpDumper]

Because we are 1-2 without Barry getting Welfare...that's why.Barry can't play without welfare because the Spurs lost two games?

You are losing it.

[ALVAREZ6]

Manu plays out of control half the time.

manu goes crazy, sometimes it helps, sometimes he fucks up.

thats what happens with risky players.

[ChumpDumper]

No, you just said Hedo>Manu because of it.Nope. Quit making things up.

[Jimcs50]

Whottt, stoping fighting with girls...didn't your mama teach you anything.

[ALVAREZ6]

wow would u guys freakin quit it
u guys are goin at it.

uve been posting all morning long every single 30 seconds, there is a new post.


driving me crazy

[whottt]

Barry can't play without welfare because the Spurs lost two games?

You are losing it.


Um, no, you are losing it...at 1w-2l pace. Asswipe.

Even Alvarez knows what's going on better than you LMAO.

[ALVAREZ6]

Even Alvarez knows what's going on better than you LMAO.


whats that supposed to mean

[ChumpDumper]

So I can't judge by a 20 game sample but you can by a 3 game sample.

Brilliant.

[whottt]

whats that supposed to mean


Just take it the way you take everything else I say and you'll be fine.

Consider it an honest peace offering to save myself from the major game you are unleashing on me.

[whottt]

So I can't judge by a 20 game sample but you can by a 3 game sample.

Brilliant.

Idiot...you are juding by the 3 game sample...Mr.December.

[ChumpDumper]

Idiot...you are juding by the 3 game sample...Mr.December.Actually, December is TWICE the sample you are touting.

More lies.

Apologize.

[whottt]

Actually, December is TWICE the sample you are touting.

More lies.

Apologize.

No dipshit...

I am touting the 15-3 record we had, the 1-2 record just happens to be what is left over....

So, no my sample size is about 3 times the size of yours.

And the yank Barry in big games philosophy started on December third..and you are the one going "1 for December" ad nauseum.

[violentkitten]

both of you are full of shit now shut up

[polandprzem]

both of you are full of shit now shut up
vomitkitten has spoken

[timvp]

I guess all of Whottt's typing in this thread was a waste. Barry plays eight minutes and the Spurs score 116 points.

Oops.