Students must remember 'God' in Texas pledge

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

http://chron.com//disp/story.mpl/front/5020241.html

Students must remember 'God' in Texas pledge

By MELANIE MARKLEY
Copyright 2007 Houston Chronicle

Texas students will have four more words to remember when they head back to class this month and begin reciting the state's pledge of allegiance.

This year's Legislature added the phrase "one state under God" to the pledge, which is part of a required morning ritual in Texas public schools along with the pledge to the U.S. flag and a moment of silence.

State Rep. Debbie Riddle, who sponsored the bill, said it had always bothered her that God was omitted in the state's pledge.

"Personally, I felt like the Texas pledge had a big old hole in it, and it occurred to me, 'You know what? We need to fix that,' " said Riddle, R-Tomball. "Our Texas pledge is perfectly OK like it is with the exception of acknowledging that just as we are one nation under God, we are one state under God as well."

By law, students who object to saying the pledge or making the reference to God can bring a written note from home excusing them from participating.

But adding that phrase has drawn criticism from some who say it's unneccesary and potentially harmful to children who don't share the same religious beliefs. "Most Texans do not need to say this new version of the pledge in order to be either patriotic or religious," said Barry Lynn, executive director of Americans United for the Separation of Church and State. "This is the kind of politicking of religion that disturbs many Americans, including those who are deeply religious."

The revised wording in the Texas pledge took effect on June 15, and the Texas Education Agency sent an e-mail reminding school districts about the change earlier this week.

Officials with Houston-area districts say they will notify schools and parents about the new requirement.

Rebecca Suarez, spokeswoman for the Houston Independent School District, said a letter about the change will be sent home to parents when their children return to school. And a flier with the pledge's revised wording will be sent to each campus before classes start.

Texas has had a pledge of allegiance since 1933. In 2003, the Legislature required all schools to pledge allegiance to the U.S. and Texas flags and observe a moment of silence every morning at the beginning of classes.

Texas isn't the only state that has its own pledge of allegiance. Other states include Michigan, Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana and Kentucky.

Mississippi and Louisiana mention God in their pledges. And Kentucky lays claim to being blessed with "grace from on High."

[Melmart1]

I had no idea there was a pledge for Texas. There wasn't when I was growing up.

[ploto]

"This is the kind of politicking of religion that disturbs many Americans, including those who are deeply religious."

Amen.

[Spurminator]

I don't remember ever saying the Texas pledge after 2nd Grade or so. Is it really required in all public schools?

[MaNuMaNiAc]

Seriously, how the fuck can someone be punished for NOT saying something? If I was in school right now, I'd just not say the damn thing

[ShoogarBear]

I had no idea there was a pledge for Texas. There wasn't when I was growing up.Me neither. What an embarassment.

[makedamnsure]

this is such crap. I'm a Christ follower, don't get me wrong, but making people say this? it's crap. I hate saying the pledges every morning, it's a waste of time.

we used to say the pledges ONCE A WEEK but after 9/11, we say them everyday. so let's see, I'm about to be a junior in high school so it's been like 6 years that this has been going on.

[Avitus1]

I used to say the pledge but I dont remember doing it past like... 1st grade.

The fact that the words "under God" were added during the cold war just doesn't sit right with me.

[T Park]

The fact that the words "under God" were added during the cold war just doesn't sit right with me.


Would've been better in the 1700s?

[Avitus1]

Might of been just as bad but we weren't calling anybody Godless back in the 1700s. Which is what McCarthy era made the communist (mostly the Russians) out to be. So add "Under God" to the pledge (1954), and make "In God We Trust" the national motto (1956) so everyone knows we aren't like the Commies. At least the Christian founding fathers would of done it because they thought it had a nice ring to it. Though I'm sure forcing anyone to say anything seems to be against all of the ideals laid out by the Constitutional Congres anyways.

[Melmart1]

Would've been better in the 1700s?
Would have been better never.

[Bigzax]

Godbless free will!

[King]

Godbless free will!

What happened to your Christianity kick? Just a passing fad with you? Unless this isn't the same Zak.

[NASCARdad]

God Bless Texas!!!!

[bigzak25]

What happened to your Christianity kick? Just a passing fad with you? Unless this isn't the same Zak.


only God knows...

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

A pledge of allegiance to the state of Texas? :lol That's funny.

[ObiwanGinobili]

Pledges aren't compulsory.
I never said a single pledge of alliegiance to a any flag, ever.

[ShoogarBear]

Pledges aren't compulsory.
By law, students who object to saying the pledge or making the reference to God can bring a written note from home excusing them from participating.
Reading that would indicate it is compulsory, unless you have a note from your parents.



I never said a single pledge of alliegiance to a any flag, ever.
In 2003, the Legislature required all schools to pledge allegiance to the U.S. and Texas flags and observe a moment of silence every morning at the beginning of classes.

[BeerIsGood!]

I'm glad I finished school in 1996.



Pledges of Alligence and the sort give me very vivid images of Nazis with raised arm shouting "Heil Hitler" or "Seig Heil"

[ShoogarBear]

I'm actually old enough to have had mandatory PoA in elementary school.

It was a meaningless exercise for me and probably 99% of the kids. I never put any thought into what the words meant.

What's scary is what is says about the mindset of the adults who require it.

[Spurminator]

In 2003, the Legislature required all schools to pledge allegiance to the U.S. and Texas flags and observe a moment of silence every morning at the beginning of classes.

I missed that part too... Reading about things like this takes my IQ down a few notches, and apparently my reading comprehension with it.

[spurster]

The legislature needs to make treason against Texas a criminal act. Also, it needs more laws to deal with spying and espionage by other states.

[ShoogarBear]

The legislature needs to make treason against Texas a criminal act.
You mean like, guys who leave the state to play for OU?



Also, it needs more laws to deal with spying and espionage by other states.You mean like, guys who leave the state to coach U of K?

[JoeChalupa]

I said the Pledge of Allegiance growing up and I think it is a good thing but I don't think it should be forced on anyone though.
I get ticked off when I see how disrespectful so many are during the playing of the National Anthem.
But that is another matter.

[SpursWoman]

They recited the PoA at the last PTA meeting I went to ... as well as the Texas one. I had no idea what the words were, so I just looked around at all of the other parents who didn't have a clue and were looking around, too. Looking at the kids ... because they apparently all knew it. :spin

[angel_luv]

I stopped saying the pledge of allegience in junior high.
I felt like I did not want to vow my loyalty when no one could explain to me what that entailed.
And if the pledge were just words, what did it matter if I said them or not.

So since then I have just stood in respectful silence while those who want to pledge do.

[Shelly]

They recited the PoA at the last PTA meeting I went to ... as well as the Texas one. I had no idea what the words were, so I just looked around at all of the other parents who didn't have a clue and were looking around, too. Looking at the kids ... because they apparently all knew it. :spin

The elementary school my kids went to had to do both pledges. And if a parent volunteer who wasn't paying attention didn't stop what they were doing during said pledges, they got scolded! Even if you were walking to a classroom.

I know they do in middle school also. I'll find out about high school.

[angel_luv]

But adding that phrase has drawn criticism from some who say it's unneccesary and potentially harmful to children who don't share the same religious beliefs.

Wouldn't the only ones who would have serious issue with be atheists?

[BeerIsGood!]

You mean like, guys who leave the state to play for OU?

:lol

Now that is one great idea. I'll be quietly awaiting the public execution by firing squad of Adrian Peterson. That is if we can manage extradition from those tight ass bastards in Minnesota.

[ShoogarBear]

I wonder what would happen if a kid said "under Allah" or "under Jah"?

Actually, I already know.

[BeerIsGood!]

Wouldn't the only ones who would have serious issue with be atheists?
I don't know. Are there really big differences between the invisible men in the sky who never appear yet demand we follow their rules or else be subjected to some sort of unsavory circumstance? If one invisible man in the sky is the same as all of the others, then I see no reason people should take exception as to which invisible man in the sky the pledge is refering.

[JoeChalupa]

I wonder what would happen if a kid said "under Allah" or "under Jah"?

Actually, I already know.

What happens? I'm serious.

[Melmart1]

Wouldn't the only ones who would have serious issue with be atheists?
Not all religions believe in God. Most have a Higher Being or deity of some sort, but it is not always God. This country as we know it today was founded in part because of the desire for freedom from one religion, and yet here we are today trying to force one version of a religious deity on people.

[Spurminator]

I can see where this is headed and I want to say that I don't think this is as great an attack on religious freedom as many opponents will make it out to be... but that's not an argument in favor of a government-coerced oath of loyalty. Our litmus for new legislation should be "How does this make a positive impact?"... not "Is it really that big of a deal?"

This kind of crap bugs the shit out of me because all it serves to do is provoke. It doesn't help the cause of Christianity or of Patriotism. It's just another topic to feed the destructive partisan talk radio/tv machine.

[angel_luv]

Not all religions believe in God. Most have a Higher Being or deity of some sort, but it is not always God. This country as we know it today was founded in part because of the desire for freedom from one religion, and yet here we are today trying to force one version of a religious deity on people.


I would not participate in pledging to Allah because I do not believe in him, so I understand and appreciate your distate for the current pledge of allegience.
I didn't think it through in my previous post.

[atxrocker]

what complete bullshit.

[Dro210]

I remember doin the pledges in middle school.... like somebody else said, you don't think about it, you just stand up and listen to 'em say that shit, cause you could really careless as a 12 year old at 8 in the morning, or at anytime or any age for that matter....

I was tryin to think about if we did it in high school tho... and I think we did.... I just don't remember, cause I never made it on time.... I pledged alligeince to the blunt in my hand on the drive or ride to school every morning that made me about 15 minutes late everyday.... lmao

[xrayzebra]

Editor's note: sadly, Red Skelton was prescient - the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals (the most overturned court in the United States of America) has done exactly that.

Courtesy of YouTube.com, here is a video clip of Red Skelton reciting the Pledge of Allegiance:

[ObiwanGinobili]

Wouldn't the only ones who would have serious issue with be atheists?

Not true. I have an objection to it and I am not an athiest.
My loyalty and alliegiance are due only to God and His kingdom.
under His direction I gladly pay ceasers things to ceaser - but on this I must pay God's thing (my allgience) to God.

just becasue the Texas legislature sticks the phrase 'under god' in there doesn't make this god's government. unless I missed that passage inteh holy scriptures.

FTR- even with out the phrase 'under god' I still decline. I would never utter a pledge of lyaoty or allegiance to any nation or national group.

[ObiwanGinobili]

I wonder what would happen if a kid said "under Allah" or "under Jah"?

Actually, I already know.


deopending on what area of Texas that may happen in.... I wouldn;t want to know.

[BeerIsGood!]

You don't have to. You pay taxes... that's says "allegiance" more than any pledge.

[ObiwanGinobili]

Reading that would indicate it is compulsory, unless you have a note from your parents.


I wonder how inforced that is currently. Hmmm..

I went to school in a differnet state, and obviously before 2003 :lol
BUT, at the time - yes everyone stood and said the pledge and then they would sing a song (ameerica the beautiful or something).
I stood respectfully but silently, and there was never an issue about it. I had to explain myself to a sustitute once or twice, but no punitive action (which woulda've been a violation of my civil rights anyway).

[1369]

Not true. I have an objection to it and I am not an athiest.
My loyalty and alliegiance are due only to God and His kingdom.
under His direction I gladly pay ceasers things to ceaser - but on this I must pay God's thing (my allgience) to God.

just becasue the Texas legislature sticks the phrase 'under god' in there doesn't make this god's government. unless I missed that passage inteh holy scriptures.

FTR- even with out the phrase 'under god' I still decline. I would never utter a pledge of lyaoty or allegiance to any nation or national group.

Obi, was that stance (I don't want to say "mandated"), "taught/instructed" to you by your church (I can't remember if you're Mormon or JW so forgive me)?

Reason I ask is that I remember that when I was in elementary school (Back when rocks were soft and dinosaurs roamed), there were a few cases of kids refusing to say the pledge and most, if not all, were of the same faith.

[E20]

I said a POA in elementary school, I didn't really fucking care what I was saying, because I didn't care, I was too buzy trying to hide my boner because of the girl sitting next to me.

[ObiwanGinobili]

Obi, was that stance (I don't want to say "mandated"), "taught/instructed" to you by your church (I can't remember if you're Mormon or JW so forgive me)?

Reason I ask is that I remember that when I was in elementary school (Back when rocks were soft and dinosaurs roamed), there were a few cases of kids refusing to say the pledge and most, if not all, were of the same faith.

yes, I am a JW, and most likely those children where to.
It's a stance that, as anything, is voluntary but a JW that doesn't have a strictly nuetral political stance is hard to find.
We refuse compulsory military service, don;t vote, join political parties, or pledge our alligiance to anything or aanyone other than God.

[ObiwanGinobili]

and 1369 - ehy do you keep insinuating you're older than dirt?
your not as old as Jim ya know :lol

[Phenomanul]

Religion should never be imposed on anyone.... it is a counterproductive course of action.

True spirituallity is attained as the inner yearnings of our soul come to the realization that we need GOD.

[ploto]

My loyalty and alliegiance are due only to God and His kingdom.
under His direction I gladly pay ceasers things to ceaser - but on this I must pay God's thing (my allgience) to God.

No offense- but aren't you the woman with the half naked picture?

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

No offense- but aren't you the woman with the half naked picture?

Oh, this thread's about to take an interesting turn.

http://www.maj.com/gallery/DanElHombre/smilies/popcorn.gif

[1369]

and 1369 - ehy do you keep insinuating you're older than dirt?
your not as old as Jim ya know :lol

I know Jim's ears are still ringing from the Big Bang, but he's more the exception rather than the rule.

[1369]

No offense- but aren't you the woman with the half naked picture?

And the full box.

[ObiwanGinobili]

No offense- but aren't you the woman with the half naked picture?


:lol no offense taken, yes thats me. yes, i'm imperfect.
Although you probably woulda seen me more 'naked" at schlitterbahn 3 weeks ago.


and I'll tell you a secret under these clothes, I'm completely naked!

[clambake]

Religion should never be imposed on anyone.... it is a counterproductive course of action.

True spirituallity is attained as the inner yearnings of our soul come to the realization that we need GOD.

[SRJ]

As an atheist, my position is that I don't care.

Kids are not the people they turn out to be later, so if they spout stuff by rote, who cares?

I grew up going to church, praying, and "believing" in all that mess...and when I got older, I gained the ability to accept or reject whatever I had been taught. And I'm no genius. Let the law-making babies have their bottles, and have confidence that you can guide your children into becoming free-thinking adults. If you don't instill that independence in them, those kids are going to have much bigger problems than having to recite things at school.

"Indoctrination" is overrated. As a parent, you have the power to overcome that stuff.

[dg7md]

Terrible.

[ShoogarBear]

"Indoctrination" is overrated. As a parent, you have the power to overcome that stuff.I don't see the problem as parents who actively take part in teaching kids the values they want to impart. The problem is parents who think it's the schools' job to teach their kids their particular values (i.e., the ones who pass these laws).

Now one might argue that schools always teach values, and "be nice and play well together" or other socialization skills are just as much a value as "believe in the Christian God". I don't really have a good response to that, except to say that I doubt very many people would seriously object to the first or see that as infringing on anyone's rights.

[peewee's lovechild]

My kids aren't going to do a pledge with "God" in it. And, Texas can kiss my ass if they want to make an issue out of it.

[Phenomanul]

My kids aren't going to do a pledge with "God" in it. And, Texas can kiss my ass if they want to make an issue out of it.


'Indoctrination' clearly works both ways....

[Clutch20]

Not only is the PoA recited followed by the Texas Pledge, but some schools say this one also:

Juro leatad a la bandera de los Estados Unidos de America
Y a la Republica que representa
Una nacion, bajo de Dios, Indivisible,
Con libertad y justicia
Para todos

[ashbeeigh]

Whatever. I don't see it as such a big deal. I mean, the whole concept of the American nation, and the Texas nation at that, was based on Christian values. I'm not directly implying that the "God" we're speaking of here is the Christian God, but the nation we live in is based on these concepts.

And as for remembering saying pledges, I do remember saying the PoA from kindergarten to 12th grade and actually, right at the end of 12th grade (2003) adding the Texas allegiance to the daily ritual. I mean, seriously...is the teacher going to go around monitoring the students voices? It's like hearing a whole group singing...sometimes some people say it louder than others which cause those who don't sing to be overpowered.

[boutons_]

"based on Christian values."

such (unnamed) values are unique, exclusive to Christianity.

The Founding Papas, having seen how the Christain Church collaborated with the royalty to suppress Europe for 100s of years and enrich both Church, were very definitely anti-clerical and adamant about separation of Church and State.

[Clutch20]

Something I just remembered seeing a few years back. I love the old movies of the "Little Rascals" and record them whenever I can.
I recorded one particular episode that sticks out in my mind because of one opening scene. The Rascals wanting to join the Boy Scouts was the plot. They began the opening scene at a big gathering with the Scouts at their camp reciting the Pledge of Allegiance. Towards the end of the pledge, they recited......and to the Republic, for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
We stood there puzzled and blinked our eyes.
God was omitted.
Later on, I found out that the word God was introduced after that Little Rascal's episode was filmed.