Does Kobe, Odom and J O'Neal scare you? [Archive]

MajorMike

08-07-2007, 08:12 AM

NBA Junkie

08-07-2007, 08:18 AM

I don't think the Lakers have a realistic shot at getting O'Neal unless Bynum and Odom are in the deal. They would need Odom's contract in order for the trade to work.

samikeyp

08-07-2007, 08:31 AM

No.

Findog

08-07-2007, 08:32 AM

Does LA scare you then?

No.

BacktoBasics

08-07-2007, 09:16 AM

You could put Magic, Kareem, Worthy, Rambis and Scott around Kobe and he would bitch and moan and fuck it up.

JMarkJohns

08-07-2007, 09:21 AM

The Lakers could, technically, present a package that doesn't include Odom. But I've heard Indiana would like both Odom and Bynum, so I'm unsure why they'd even consider it. Still...

Brown .......... 9 million
Radmanovic .. 5 million
Bynum ......... 2 million
Farmar ........ 1 million
Future 1st ....
---------------------------
TOTALS ....... 17 million+

Jermaine O'Neal makes just over 19 million. I'm fairly certain it works.

I'm just not sure it would get the job done.

Maybe if the Crittenton was included over Farmar?

That gives the Pacers two young players, Bynum and either Farmar or Crittenton, and a future 1st, while knocking 9 million off their payroll at year's end.

Radmo has to be included to make money work. He's the thorn in the side of this trade. I included the future 1st to ease the pain of taking on his contract. Still, I doubt it'd be enough.

If it weren't for that contract, however, it's not a bad hall, and a very good hall if Crittenton is included. He and Bynum are a good duo to rebuild around.

jacobdrj

08-07-2007, 09:33 AM

Scare me? No. I would, however, have a healthy respect for a squad with those 3 players. Kobe is clutch enough to do well in a situation where the team keeps close. JO is not un-clutch, plays above average defense, and is like a mini version of Shaq, so Kobe will know what to do with him. Odom was playing out of his mind before his 2! injuries. He could be a force, but still a 3rd fiddle. I also think JO is tailor made for the triangle. He isn't stupid, and he can go inside or hit a little jumper.

spurs_fan_in_exile

08-07-2007, 10:12 AM

It wouldn't be a bad big three, but there are health concerns all the way around on that, particularly O'Neal. If they were to play 82 games together they could make some noise in the playoffs, but if history is any indicator that wouldn't be the case.

Reggie Miller

08-07-2007, 10:25 AM

I like O'Neal, but he isn't all that. He had a couple nice years 03 and 04 but really hasn't been healthy the vast majority of his NBA career, to include the past 3 years. He also needs alot of touches to be successful, and I don't think he would get that playing with Kobe (alone) and Odom. I think they would be better off, if they want O'Neal, to deal Odom and keep Bynum. This makes O'neal the #2 guy (more touches) and lets him play the 4.

As a Pacers fan, I would have to agree with all of the above. Many NBA fans seem to think that J.O. is a legitimate first option and franchise player. J.O. is best suited as a second option, and he doesn't seem to have the ability to elevate his team's play. Some of the problems the Pacers have are the result of a leadership vacuum. I'm not trying to be overly critical of O'Neal, just realistic.

Rebuilding around J.O. would only make the Pacers worse in the long run. In the weak East, there is always the chance that the Pacers are a perennial 7-8 seed with O'Neal, at least for a few more years. That means another 3-5 years of late picks and no real ability to lure free agents. Thanks to the Golden State deal, the Pacers are paying quite a bit of loot to untradeable players (unless the Clippers want Dunleavy).

My points:

1. J.O. is somewhat overrated, and may not be the quick fix L.A. desperately wants/needs.

2. The Pacers may be better off without him in the long run. However, they will be completely unwatchable for about three years in the process.

ALVAREZ6

08-07-2007, 10:44 AM

Jermaine doesn't scare me. He's so injury prone it's unhealthy.

lotr1trekkie

08-07-2007, 11:09 AM

Three guys you don't want + Bynum for one doesn't make much sense for Indy. The deal would dictate their roster for years. Odum/ Bynum for O'Neill and then even out the salary factors. Quantity for quality never works in any sport.

TheNextGen

08-07-2007, 11:13 AM

As a Spurs fan, it does scare me. This Lakers team, for some reason, has given us a hard time last year. Adding JO to the mix will just make it even harder.

Switchman

08-07-2007, 11:34 AM

If it means the Lakers could make the playoffs and face us, I would love it.

Anytime we can stomp on Phil Jackson, it's a good day.

Medvedenko

08-07-2007, 11:52 AM

Well, I hope they do something....either trade Bynum and Brown plus fillers for JO and leave Odom alone...or trade Kobe for youth and rebuild with AB. Still a starting 5 of....
Brown
Odom
Walton
Kobe
Fisher

...is very solid and has enough veteran talent to compete with any team. Kobe is a lot lighter <20lbs from last season and is looking very good on the US team. They have an unselfish 3rd option in Odom and have great team guys like Walton and Fish who knows the triangle and you could have a very dangerous team. Now, injuries is what it's all about and both Odom and Oneal have struggled with this in the past. Still, this is a very dangerous team..you can even start Mihm with Oneal playing the 4 and having Odom play the 3...very athletic and the interior defense would be tough to penetrate. I believe a top 4 team in the West.

phxspurfan

08-07-2007, 01:17 PM

I would be more afraid of a sexy can of SPAM.

TheNextGen

08-07-2007, 03:17 PM

new rumor is Bird wants Odom, Bynum and walton now for JO

CavsSuperFan

08-07-2007, 03:19 PM

Does Kobe, Odom and J O'Neal scare you?

NO! Team players scare me...

baseline bum

08-07-2007, 09:43 PM

O'Neal sucks. I'd much rather have Bynum than that overrated has-been.

Marcus Bryant

08-07-2007, 10:16 PM

Kobe has a better chance at finding the real rapist with J O'Neal.

TDMVPDPOY

08-07-2007, 10:43 PM

if brown and bynum are gone, wtf will be there frontline?

they have no bench if this trade goes through and thin on the frontline

seriously radman is crap....

Dalhoop

08-08-2007, 06:33 AM

Reggie Miller

08-08-2007, 10:03 AM

I think that to a degree, O'Neal has got his reputation "Star player" reputation by playing against Eastern PF's. For several years the East has been very weak at PF, until Bosh and Howard came into the league the East only had one or two PF's that were worth a crap.

I wish I had said that, becuase that's a pretty accurate explanation for O'Neal's rise to "star" status. The decline and retirement of Miller also helped J.O. get the "star" tag. After all, EVERY team has a star player, right? :rolleyes

I don't want to seem down on the guy; J.O. could be a starter on any team when healthy. However, I have watched him in hundreds of games now, and there is no doubt that he is overrated. As I mentioned earlier, there was a huge leadership vacuum on the Pacers when Miller retired. O'Neal has not stepped up to fulfill this role, in my opinion.

This brings up anothe point if you are the Lakers. I think it will take a very strong personality to pair up with Bryant. Shaq and Kobe feuded all of the time, but at least they fought as equals. If you bring in another "star" who will defer to Bryant, rather than confronting him, I could see the Lakers getting much worse via a trade. Essentially, O'Neal could end up being another Odom.

TheNextGen

08-08-2007, 11:10 AM

^^ so if u are the Lakers...who will u be trading for to get to the next level?

George Gervin's Afro

08-08-2007, 12:05 PM

No one scares me.

Dalhoop

08-08-2007, 06:25 PM

^^ so if u are the Lakers...who will u be trading for to get to the next level?

Kidd would be my first aquisition. The team needs someone whose job it is to "Run the Offence". Kobe likes to call his own number too much. I think that with Kidd on the team (Keeping Odom and Kobe) the team would be a threat for home court in the first round of the playoffs ... Not Championsship good, but very good.

A trade like this (or signing) would make Kobe better as you can't double a player without the ball effectively, but it would also help Odom be more effective.

That would be my #1 priority .. A PG that the coach is willing to say "You are my floor general, take the ball and run with it" ... The player would have to have enough seniority to get his way with the ball distribution. (Kidd and Nash are about the only players that would fit the bill)

I think that with Kwame, Bynum and Odom I like the inside game, with Kobe I like the outside and slashing game ... They are a verteran PG away from taking that next step... but as I said it can't be just any PG

LakeShow

08-08-2007, 08:32 PM

Kidd would be my first aquisition. The team needs someone whose job it is to "Run the Offence". Kobe likes to call his own number too much. I think that with Kidd on the team (Keeping Odom and Kobe) the team would be a threat for home court in the first round of the playoffs ... Not Championsship good, but very good.

A trade like this (or signing) would make Kobe better as you can't double a player without the ball effectively, but it would also help Odom be more effective.

That would be my #1 priority .. A PG that the coach is willing to say "You are my floor general, take the ball and run with it" ... The player would have to have enough seniority to get his way with the ball distribution. (Kidd and Nash are about the only players that would fit the bill)

I think that with Kwame, Bynum and Odom I like the inside game, with Kobe I like the outside and slashing game ... They are a verteran PG away from taking that next step... but as I said it can't be just any PG

Phil has his General! Derek Fisher! No one he can find out there could run the triangle any better than he. Kidd would have been nice but they dont need a Kidd to win a title. An O'neal in the line up would definitely put them back in elite status.

O'Neal
Odom
Walton
Bryant
Fisher

Phil Jackson

I'd roll with that team!

Dalhoop

08-08-2007, 09:06 PM

Fisher is not the guy. He has been around for awhile, but Kobe can/will tell him what to do.

kobe_bryant

08-08-2007, 11:44 PM

yes

LakeShow

08-09-2007, 11:05 AM

Fisher is not the guy. He has been around for awhile, but Kobe can/will tell him what to do.

Fisher and Kobe are the best of friends. They did win 3 titles in a row together and know each other very well. The triangle dictates that the ball moves around. Kobe trusts and respects Fisher, and of course Jackson will see to it that the triangle is run. So I really don't see an issue with that.

Dalhoop

08-09-2007, 06:04 PM

Fisher and Kobe are the best of friends.

Friends are wonderful, but not neccesary for an NBA championship.

The triangle dictates that the ball moves around.

Fisher will pass to Kobe (they are friends afterall) and that will be the end of the ball movement.

Jackson will see to it that the triangle is run.

Much like last year with the same results.

So I really don't see an issue with that.

The issue is that the Lakers don't have ball movement other then the first pass to Kobe. Signing an aging second string PG is not the answer.

You asked what was needed for the Lakers to take the next step and I answered. Fisher is not it. The difference between Kidd and Fisher are as wide as the Grand Canyon. Kidd will get rebounds, has the court vision to get everyone involved and a willingness to pass to the right guy no matter the name on the back of the jersey.

Fisher will get Kobe involved in the offence ... which is not the Lakers problem. the problem is in getting everyone else in the offence.

LakeShow

08-10-2007, 12:24 PM

Friends are wonderful, but not neccesary for an NBA championship.

Fisher will pass to Kobe (they are friends afterall) and that will be the end of the ball movement.

Much like last year with the same results.

The issue is that the Lakers don't have ball movement other then the first pass to Kobe. Signing an aging second string PG is not the answer.

You asked what was needed for the Lakers to take the next step and I answered. Fisher is not it. The difference between Kidd and Fisher are as wide as the Grand Canyon. Kidd will get rebounds, has the court vision to get everyone involved and a willingness to pass to the right guy no matter the name on the back of the jersey.

Fisher will get Kobe involved in the offence ... which is not the Lakers problem. the problem is in getting everyone else in the offence.

Ball movement is not a problem when you have players who are confident in their shots. Kobe will break down the defense and kick it back out to Fisher for 3 with no problem. He has in the past when he had the players who werent afraid to take it.

The triangle offense doesn't call for a domination or distribution of the ball from the point guard. Phil Jackson has won 9 titles without a point guard of Kidd or Nash's caliber. Sure they're nice to have but for this offense, Fisher will do just fine. With a player like Oneal who is not afraid to take shots (like some of the lakers were last season) Kobe could break down the defense and gladly kick it back to an open CONFIDENT teammate. Sure Kobe will have his moments where he dominates the shots and action, that's inevitable regardless of who he plays with.

Fisher is the answer at the point, what the lakers need is an answer at the 4 or 5. With Oneal, they'll be solid!

Reggie Miller

08-10-2007, 03:51 PM

Fisher is the answer at the point, what the lakers need is an answer at the 4 or 5. With Oneal, they'll be solid!

Yeah. It's been proven that all O'Neal needs to win a championship is a versatile guard capable of scoring a lot of points...

...wait, nevermind.

yourcheatinheart

08-10-2007, 04:17 PM

Diarrhea at church while wearing white pants scares me, this lineup does not....

Dalhoop

08-10-2007, 05:24 PM

So your saying that a PG that shot 38% from the field and and 30% on threes is the going tobe the key to the Lakers sucess?

The triangle has won championships with Jordan/Pippen and Shaq/Kobe ... All four could be concidered in the top 50 of all time ... Is it the system? Or some very special players?

Kobe has already shown that one star can't run the system and win, you think that Fisher will be that second player that makes it work .... Well, I don't agree. I with the Lakers luck in this upcoming season

Medvedenko

08-10-2007, 05:28 PM

Fisher is a start...an upgrade over Atkins and Smush...but still they need more help. It's good to get Mihm back, but we'll see if he's the same player. If they could land Oneal, than a lineup of:
Fish
Kobe
Lamar
Oneal
Mihm

is very solid.

As I said, Top 4 in the west barring any health issues.

Brutalis

08-10-2007, 08:47 PM

No. If the Ladieshow moved Odom for someone better.. I'd be concerned.

Brutalis

08-10-2007, 08:48 PM

Wait.

If the Lakers even had Jerm, first.......................

Johnny RIngo

08-11-2007, 04:44 AM

The S0ns needed 7 games to put away the current Lakers squad. Add Jermaine O'Neal to the lineup and Phoenix is toast.

TDMVPDPOY

08-11-2007, 10:08 AM

lakers should just trade odom+bynum+brown watever for JO and there scrubs>la scrubs...

jacobdrj

08-11-2007, 10:40 AM

lakers should just trade odom+bynum+brown watever for JO and there scrubs>la scrubs...
No kidding! Trading anything and everything for JO not named Kobe is a steal for the Lakers. It is a no-brainer. I don't care how good Bynum might become... That is for the Pacers to deal with. I would love nothing more for Bynum to become the next JO... but that most likely will not happen. Odom proved to be better than my expectations the past couple of seasons before getting injured, and it would certainly be nice for him to play with Kobe and JO... but if that can't happen, that shouldn't stop the Lakers from acquiring JO.

JO=post presence
Kobe=perimeter scoring, driving, and passing to a point.

You just need some reliable shooters, ala Steve Kerr, and you have yourself a workable offensive system.