Return of the draft?

[thepeopleslawyer]

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/08/10/war.adviser.draft.ap/index.html

WASHINGTON (AP) -- Frequent tours for U.S. forces in Iraq and Afghanistan have stressed the all-volunteer force and made it worth considering a return to a military draft, President Bush's new war adviser said Friday.

"I think it makes sense to certainly consider it," Army Lt. Gen. Douglas Lute said in an interview with National Public Radio's "All Things Considered."

"And I can tell you, this has always been an option on the table. But ultimately, this is a policy matter between meeting the demands for the nation's security by one means or another," said Lute, who is sometimes referred to as the "Iraq war czar." It was his first interview since he was confirmed by the Senate in June.

President Nixon abolished the draft in 1973. Restoring it, Lute said, would be a "major policy shift" and Bush has made it clear that he doesn't think it's necessary.

"The president's position is that the all-volunteer military meets the needs of the country and there is no discussion of a draft. Gen. Lute made that point as well," National Security Council spokesman Gordon Johndroe said.

In the interview, Lute also said that "Today, the current means of the all-volunteer force is serving us exceptionally well."

Still, he said the repeated deployments in Iraq and Afghanistan affect not only the troops but their families, who can influence whether a service member decides to stay in the military.

"There's both a personal dimension of this, where this kind of stress plays out across dinner tables and in living room conversations within these families," he said. "And ultimately, the health of the all-volunteer force is going to rest on those sorts of personal family decisions."

The military conducted a draft during the Civil War and both world wars and between 1948 and 1973. The Selective Service System, re-established in 1980, maintains a registry of 18-year-old men.

Rep. Charles Rangel, D-New York, has called for reinstating the draft as a way to end the Iraq war.

Bush picked Lute in mid-May as a deputy national security adviser with responsibility for ensuring efforts in Iraq and Afghanistan are coordinated with policymakers in Washington. Lute, an active-duty general, was chosen after several retired generals turned down the job.

[Wild Cobra]

What is the point of posting such a poor story? The only way it makes sense is to know the General's statements in full context. Have the complete transcript handy? Notice how there is no source link?

Here is the NPR link:

'War Czar' Concerned over Stress of War on Troops (http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=12688693)

You can listen to the interview by clicking on the red "listen" symbol under the title. Most of the link is the actual transcript. Notice he doesn't bring the draft up. Part of text:


Q) You know, given the stress on the military and the concern about these extended deployments for an all-volunteer military, can you foresee, in the future, a return to the draft?

A) You know, that's a national policy decision point that we have not yet reached, Michele, because the —

Q) But does it make sense militarily?

A) I think it makes sense to certainly consider it, and I can tell you, this has always been an option on the table, but ultimately, this is a policy matter between meeting the demands for the nation's security by one means or another. Today, the current means of the all-volunteer force is serving us exceptionally well. It would be a major policy shift — not actually a military, but a political policy shift to move to some other course.

Michelle cut him off before he could say why it would be a bad idea, at least in my opinion. As for considering it... Only a poor planner does not consider all options... Notice he says the volunteer military is "serving us well."

I don't know is I should be disgusted or amused that this draft thing keeps popping up.

[Wild Cobra]

The draft story was so lame it shouldn't have recieved any attention. A Pentagon spokesman responded anyway:

US not considering draft: Pentagon (http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=070813150223.tj19y2s7&show_article=1):


The Pentagon sharply rejected Monday a key general's assertion that a return to the military draft has always been "an option on the table" and should be considered.

"I can tell you emphatically that there is absolutely no consideration being given to reinstituting the draft," said Bryan Whitman, a Pentagon spokesman. "The all-volunteer force has surpassed all expectations of its founders."

Lieutenant General Douglas Lute, a White House deputy national security adviser, discussed the draft in a radio interview Friday in which he said military leaders were right to be concerned about the impact of repeated deployments on military morale and readiness.

Lute, who is in charge of coordinating the US war effort in Iraq, said the all-volunteer military is serving "exceedingly well" and the administration has not decided it needs to be replaced with a draft.

But he said, "I think it makes sense to certainly consider it, and I can tell you, this has always been an option on the table."

"But ultimately, this is a policy matter between meeting the demands for the nation's security by one means or another," he said in the interview with National Public Radio.

Reinstating the draft has become a virtual taboo since it was ended in 1973 near the end of the Vietnam War, and replaced with a smaller, better paid all-volunteer force.

The US military found that it preferred voluntary service to universal conscription because it drew better educated, more highly motivated recruits looking to make a career of the military.
Also see:

Pentagon Argues Against Draft (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,75387,00.html):


WASHINGTON — Trying to head off a proposal to reinstate the military draft, the Pentagon Monday disputed charges that blacks and poorer Americans bear an unfair burden in fighting the country's wars.

"Contrary to myth, data show that the enlisted force is quite representative of the civilian population," the Defense Department said in an 11-page paper arguing the merits of the all-volunteer force that has been in place for nearly 30 years.

The position paper was in response to a proposal by Rep. Charles Rangel, D-N.Y., to require military service and other types of national service.

A veteran of the Korean War and opponent of military action in Iraq, Rangel says he believes Congress would be less likely to support war against Saddam Hussein if their children were the ones to be put in harm's way.

He said late last month that military service should be a "shared sacrifice" asked of all able young Americans and that minorities make up a "disproportionate number" of troops.

The Pentagon countered Monday that while blacks make up 20 percent of enlistees and only 12 to 14 percent of the general recruit-age population, there tends to be fewer in combat jobs. They make up only 15 percent of the combat force, while accounting for 36 percent of support and administration and 27 percent of medical and dental positions, the Pentagon said, citing a 1999 report.

On social and economic status, it said 32 percent of recruits come from homes where the father is a high school graduate compared to 31 percent of the general population in their age group. Twenty-two percent of recruits have fathers who have at least a college education, compared to 30 percent of the general population in their age group.

The paper was released at an hour-long briefing by a senior defense official who appeared before reporters on condition he not be identified by name.

Saying America's armed forces today are more professional and efficient because they are comprised of people who have chosen to join, the official said military leaders are "horrified by Mr. Rangel's proposal to return to the days when people were forced to serve."

Under the current system, however, men are still required to register with the Selective Service System within 30 days of their 18th birthday.

[ggoose25]

Would you agree with the Iraq war if they drafted your son? I think thats the relevant point.

[Spurminator]

Reinstituting selective service would be political suicide. That's the main reason it won't happen, and that's why both sides insist it's the other guy who wants to bring back the Draft.

[clambake]

Reinstituting selective service would be political suicide. That's the main reason it won't happen, and that's why both sides insist it's the other guy who wants to bring back the Draft.
it would be more than that. it would produce americas bastille

[Mister Sinister]

If they reinstate the draft, my ass is leaving the country.

[PixelPusher]

The draft is the final barrier that insulates the American populace with the Iraq war. The Bush Adminstration knows damn well that a draft would cause hundreds of millions of American fathers, mothers, sisters and brothers to shed their "not my problem" apathy and judge the need for us to be in Iraq, and the answer would be a resounding "No".

[boutons_]

The general said it, with or without context, he said it. WC always extrapolates prejudicially the context to negate a point in the context. swift-boat-worthy.

In the middle of an extremely unpopular war, the draft would NEVER be voted up.

Everybody please appreciate how dubya, dickhead and accomplices have totally fucked over the US military, not only the dead and wounded, physically and mentally, by starting a totally unnecessary war, bungling the planning and execution horribly, and then refusing to (start to ) end it, at the very least out of consideration and respect for the under-manned, under-equipped, and over-exhausted US military.

[Nbadan]

Yep, you want people marching in the streets to end the damn war there is no quicker way than reinstating national service, but our active-duty combat troops are strained, many are staying awake for combat by drinking energy drinks like Red-bull, militarily we only have enough troops to stay in Iraq in our current phase until next summer...

[Wild Cobra]

Reinstituting selective service would be political suicide. That's the main reason it won't happen, and that's why both sides insist it's the other guy who wants to bring back the Draft.
Agreed, but there isn't a single republican who sponsored bringing the draft back. The republicans are clear on the issue, the democrats are liars on it when they say republicans want it. Several democrats sponsored bringing the draft back and the republicans forced a vote on it a few years back, during the Iraq war, or maybe just before it. The only yes votes were democrat.

[Wild Cobra]

Would you agree with the Iraq war if they drafted your son? I think thats the relevant point.
Only selfish people think that way. I would support this war with or without the draft. We did it for a good and clear cause.

[Wild Cobra]

The draft is the final barrier that insulates the American populace with the Iraq war. The Bush Adminstration knows damn well that a draft would cause hundreds of millions of American fathers, mothers, sisters and brothers to shed their "not my problem" apathy and judge the need for us to be in Iraq, and the answer would be a resounding "No".
What you say is likely true with some who support the war, but far from the reason to keep an all volunteer military. So many other reasons that are better. I think only those who have proudly served would understand.

[Wild Cobra]

The general said it, with or without context, he said it. WC always extrapolates prejudicially the context to negate a point in the context. swift-boat-worthy.

In the middle of an extremely unpopular war, the draft would NEVER be voted up.

Everybody please appreciate how dubya, dickhead and accomplices have totally fucked over the US military, not only the dead and wounded, physically and mentally, by starting a totally unnecessary war, bungling the planning and execution horribly, and then refusing to (start to ) end it, at the very least out of consideration and respect for the under-manned, under-equipped, and over-exhausted US military.
You sound like a broken record always interjecting the same lies and propaganda. Can you give it a rest, or supply ample evidence?

[Wild Cobra]

If they reinstate the draft, my ass is leaving the country.
That's the only positive reason I see for reinstating the draft. So the pussies will go to Canada, like in the late 60's and early 70's.

[xrayzebra]

I see nothing wrong with the draft. I think all young men should
serve their time in the military.

It would get them away from Mommy, teach them discipline, which
obviously many on this forum lack. Would teach them to stand
on their on two feet and quite thinking about life in general.
Heck, it might even get a few of you how to along with the
OPPISIT sex. You know like Mikey.

[ggoose25]

Only selfish people think that way. I would support this war with or without the draft. We did it for a good and clear cause.

How is that selfish? Thats the true test of whether a war is worth fighting. If you're not ready to sacrifice yourself or one of your family members for a conflict, then it's probably not one to get into.

When the war started, for Afghanistan, I would've gone if they needed me. At the beginning of Iraq, hell no.

We invaded for a shit cause, and we're worse off for it. Now we're fighting Al Qaeda on two fronts, and have not repossessed any WMD that we went in there to get out of the hands of terrorists.

[Wild Cobra]

I see nothing wrong with the draft. I think all young men should
serve their time in the military.

It would get them away from Mommy, teach them discipline, which
obviously many on this forum lack. Would teach them to stand
on their on two feet and quite thinking about life in general.
Heck, it might even get a few of you how to along with the
OPPISIT sex. You know like Mikey.
I agree with mandatory military training. I don't agree with a draft for wars. I think this would be a better place to live if everyone went through at least 2 months of military training. No commitments, just basic training, and an optional test of a military job. Everyone, male and female. Not just lottery picks like the draft does, but 100% able bodied.

[Wild Cobra]

How is that selfish? Thats the true test of whether a war is worth fighting. If you're not ready to sacrifice yourself or one of your family members for a conflict, then it's probably not one to get into.
No it's not, because you are using public opinion which most people are lead astray by the media over. Propaganda, lies, and the failing public support generated by traitors is what lead to our defeat in Viet Nam when we were winning on the ground. The democrats are invested in our defeat in Iraq now. Good news there is bad news for them. Party first, screw the troops should be their party motto.

When the war started, for Afghanistan, I would've gone if they needed me. At the beginning of Iraq, hell no.
I don't believe you. Hindsight is 20/20 and I think that's what you are using.

We invaded for a shit cause, and we're worse off for it. Now we're fighting Al Qaeda on two fronts, and have not repossessed any WMD that we went in there to get out of the hands of terrorists.
No, we invaded for a good causes. We were just too nice about it trying to give Saddam every opportunity to end it before it started.

[UV Ray]

Only selfish people think that way. I would support this war with or without the draft. We did it for a good and clear cause.
Selfishness is the pride that prevents our leaders from reversing position on a war that will do nothing but continue to sap the strength of the most highly trained army in the history of the world. A former marine friend of mine told me that they are now waiving felony records and at 42 years of age he is being offered a $20,000 signing bonus.

[clambake]

Selfishness is the pride that prevents our leaders from reversing position on a war that will do nothing but continue to sap the strength of the most highly trained army in the history of the world. A former marine friend of mine told me that they are now waiving felony records and at 42 years of age he is being offered a $20,000 signing bonus.
3 strikes and you're in! But Xray doesn't like you to call our felons felons.

[Holt's Cat]

What? The military is having trouble finding people to sign up to get killed or maimed by an IUD? Shocking.

[ggoose25]

No it's not, because you are using public opinion which most people are lead astray by the media over. Propaganda, lies, and the failing public support generated by traitors is what lead to our defeat in Viet Nam when we were winning on the ground.

Are you completely ignoring that the soldiers had not one clear objective and fought with one hand tied behind their back due to the government? If the war had been waged properly and the veterans felt like they were making a difference there would have been no propaganda or failed public support. But Vietnam was similar to the Iraq war in that no amount of troops will EVER end the conflict. You are throwing lives away for something that requires a political solution.



The democrats are invested in our defeat in Iraq now. Good news there is bad news for them. Party first, screw the troops should be their party motto.

Maybe some are. I dont know. But I wouldnt support those that did. I can only speak for myself, and I sure as hell don't want to lose.

But maybe the neocons shouldve thought about the country/troops instead of the Party when they rushed to war with the army they had, not the one they wanted. Maybe they shouldve given our soldiers body armor and reinforced humvees. Typical republicans: screw everyone including themselves.



I don't believe you. Hindsight is 20/20 and I think that's what you are using.

You don't have to believe me. But I'm man enough to admit that I would go tomorrow if they drafted me to fight terrorism. And unfortunately Iraq had nothing to do with terrorism until we invaded it.




No, we invaded for a good causes. We were just too nice about it trying to give Saddam every opportunity to end it before it started.

Good cause? WMD and mushroom clouds that were fabricated?
:lol Anytime a war is based on a lie, thats not a good cause.

[Wild Cobra]

A former marine friend of mine told me that they are now waiving felony records and at 42 years of age he is being offered a $20,000 signing bonus.
They still maintain certain standards, and I'm sure they don't waive just any felony. That is a key reason why the draft is a bad idea. There is likely about 50% of the population eligible by age that does not meet minimum enlistment standards. To implement a draft means bringing in a lower quality soldier, and soldiers that will drag down moral. We don't want the likes of John Kerry in the military any more.

[Wild Cobra]

Good cause? WMD and mushroom clouds that were fabricated?
:lol Anytime a war is based on a lie, thats not a good cause.
I am so sick of you guys opposed to Iraq implying WMD is the only reason. That is far from the truth. Again, the likes of you prove yourself to be a lemming just following the propaganda.

Wake up, do some fact checking.

[ggoose25]

I am so sick of you guys opposed to Iraq implying WMD is the only reason. That is far from the truth. Again, the likes of you prove yourself to be a lemming just following the propaganda.

Wake up, do some fact checking.

You wake up. How do you think they sold this war? It wasn't through nation building. It was through Dick's "mushroom cloud" prophecy.

Do you think the American people wouldve agreed had the Bushies not scared the ever loving shit out of them with references to another terrorist attack?

You are very well educated. Use some common sense.

[UV Ray]

The draft is the final barrier that insulates the American populace with the Iraq war. The Bush Adminstration knows damn well that a draft would cause hundreds of millions of American fathers, mothers, sisters and brothers to shed their "not my problem" apathy and judge the need for us to be in Iraq, and the answer would be a resounding "No".


But wait a second, I thought learning to kill, destroy and be shot at for no good reason was a good way to become a man.

[Wild Cobra]

You wake up. How do you think they sold this war? It wasn't through nation building. It was through Dick's "mushroom cloud" prophecy.
First of all, there was WMD. It just isn't accounted for.

I don't recall the media harping on anything but what is most sensational. Blame the media on that hype, not the administration.

The president laid out clear reasons. The reasons were clear in the UN resolutions that Saddam violated also. We even had other nations with us.


Do you think the American people wouldve agreed had the Bushies not scared the ever loving shit out of them with references to another terrorist attack?
Agreement doesn't matter. This is a representative democracy, not a true democracy. Those who make decisions based on polls are losers. President Bush continues to lead when consensus is now against him. I sure wish people could respect him for being a man rather than a pussy.


You are very well educated. Use some common sense.
I do use common sense. I also use experience and knowledge. All I see is you repeating unverified propaganda.

[ggoose25]

First of all, there was WMD. It just isn't accounted for.

:lmao They're still looking for it? Oh no it left before we could find it, right?


I don't recall the media harping on anything but what is most sensational. Blame the media on that hype, not the administration.

The president laid out clear reasons. The reasons were clear in the UN resolutions that Saddam violated also. We even had other nations with us.

Same old answer. Blame the liberal media. Blame the media. NO accountability for the administration. For someone who likes to say I believe in propaganda, you sure do make a lot on your own.


Agreement doesn't matter. This is a representative democracy, not a true democracy. Those who make decisions based on polls are losers.

Wow... agreement doesn't matter. In two years when a Democrat is in the WH it will matter a great deal to you.


President Bush continues to lead when consensus is now against him. I sure wish people could respect him for being a man rather than a pussy.

No. He's definitely not a pussy. But your praise of leadership and demand of respect require higher standards than just plain stubbornness.

[rascal]

I see Wild Cobra is a blind follower of Bush .

[J.T.]

Do you have to pass a drug test to be drafted? Because it'd probably take me 6 months to clear a urine test, much longer for a hair test.

[boutons_]

You can't get in if you have ADD.

If you want to go kill and get paid well, go sign up with a mercenary company like BlackWater.

The money and sleeping arrangements, holidays, are MUCH better, and you are legally immune. Rape and murder without fear.

Not sure about the health/pension coverage.

[J.T.]

You can't get in if you have ADD.

Would they take someone who's a chronic weed head like me? Because if I can't get drafted if I fail a pot test, I'm going to smile a little wider after every hit I take for the rest of my life.

[DarkReign]

I agree with mandatory military training. I don't agree with a draft for wars. I think this would be a better place to live if everyone went through at least 2 months of military training. No commitments, just basic training, and an optional test of a military job. Everyone, male and female. Not just lottery picks like the draft does, but 100% able bodied.

Agreed. I regret not entering the military. But, IMO, active duty under mandatory military enlistment should be optional.

That way its still an all voluntary military.

[xrayzebra]

You can't get in if you have ADD.

If you want to go kill and get paid well, go sign up with a mercenary company like BlackWater.

The money and sleeping arrangements, holidays, are MUCH better, and you are legally immune. Rape and murder without fear.

Not sure about the health/pension coverage.

You aren't sure of much. Except Bush is the cause of
everything from hang nails to global warming.

[boutons_]

The Army brasss has wanted an all-volunteer, professional Army since VN.
They spent nearly 30 years achieving that goal. Dubya has fucked all their effort. Active and reserve officers are resigning and retiring as soon as they can.

Without the Iraq fuckup, the 2003 military was plenty big to handle Afghanistan and similar actions.

It was dubya/dickhead/rummy who bit off more in Iraq than the military could chew, in task size and in duration.

Any need for a draft now is totally the fault of dubya/dickhead starting a bogus war and desk-jockey Rummy saying it could and should be done with the smallest force possible (aka "the army you have"), just the opposite of the successful Powell doctrine of overwhelming force.

dickhead called invading Iraq a quagmire and that's exactly what he got. 17 more months, and he can walk away from the whole stinking pile of shit.

[Wild Cobra]

I see Wild Cobra is a blind follower of Bush .
If you've read my posting much at all, then you know I am not a blind follower. There are several things about president Bush I dislike. However, hating the man over disagreements is rather evil isn't it?

[boutons_]

"you know I am not a blind follower."

the lies never stop

[smeagol]

Only selfish people think that way. I would support this war with or without the draft. We did it for a good and clear cause.

:lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao

You, whottt and Yoni are probably the only posters who trully believe this BS statement.

[DarkReign]

:lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao

You, whottt and Yoni are probably the only posters who trully believe this BS statement.

Absolutely, unequivocally true. The scary part is, people seem to buy their masters bullshit somehow.

In a political world chocked full of liars and criminals, theyve attached themselves to the better liars and criminals and somehow brought the electoral majority over to their side in the process.

I guess Rove is a genius.

[Wild Cobra]

Absolutely, unequivocally true. The scary part is, people seem to buy their masters bullshit somehow.

Believe as you wish. I have some solid reasons, primarily my roles in the service of this nation.

I'm sorry you others don't have an open mind to the possibility it was the correct thing to do.