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Nbadan
12-11-2004, 02:07 PM
Critic says text is 'window dressing'


Students at one of the area's largest Christian schools are reading a controversial booklet that critics say whitewashes Southern slavery with its view that slaves lived "a life of plenty, of simple pleasures."

Leaders at Cary Christian School say they are not condoning slavery by using "Southern Slavery, As It Was," a booklet that attempts to provide a biblical justification for slavery and asserts that slaves weren't treated as badly as people think.

Principal Larry Stephenson said the school is only exposing students to different ideas, such as how the South justified slavery. He said the booklet is used because it is hard to find writings that are both sympathetic to the South and explore what the Bible says about slavery.

"You can have two different sides, a Northern perspective and a Southern perspective," he said.

'SOUTHERN SLAVERY, AS IT WAS'

Here are some excerpts from the booklet:

* "To say the least, it is strange that the thing the Bible condemns (slave-trading) brings very little opprobrium upon the North, yet that which the Bible allows (slave-ownership) has brought down all manner of condemnation upon the South." (page 22)

* "As we have already mentioned, the 'peculiar institution' of slavery was not perfect or sinless, but the reality was a far cry from the horrific descriptions given to us in modern histories." (page 22)

* "Slavery as it existed in the South was not an adversarial relationship with pervasive racial animosity. Because of its dominantly patriarchal character, it was a relationship based upon mutual affection and confidence." (page 24)

* "There has never been a multi-racial society which has existed with such mutual intimacy and harmony in the history of the world." (page 24)

* "Slave life was to them a life of plenty, of simple pleasures, of food, clothes, and good medical care." (page 25)

* "But many Southern blacks supported the South because of long established bonds of affection and trust that had been forged over generations with their white masters and friends." (page 27)

* "Nearly every slave in the South enjoyed a higher standard of living than the poor whites of the South -- and had a much easier existence." (page 30)

The booklet's other author, Steve Wilkins, is a member of the board of directors of the Alabama-based League of the South. That is classified as a "hate group" by the Southern Poverty Law Center, an Alabama-based civil rights group.

"Doug Wilson and Steve Wilkins have essentially constructed the ruling theology of the neo-Confederate movement," said Mark Potok, editor of the Southern Poverty Law Center's Intelligence Report.

News Observer (http://www.newsobserver.com/news/story/1913619p-8258411c.html)

exstatic
12-11-2004, 02:43 PM
Oh, man, those private schools are SO much better than the crap they teach in public school.

Spurminator
12-11-2004, 05:48 PM
I'd be interested to hear either of you argue those assertions. Obviously none of us have read the entire booklet, but if that's the worst of it, I'm hard-pressed to see what the big deal is.

Slavery was a horrible institution which should never be repeated, but it wasn't all "Uncle Tom's Cabin." If we find it so important to preach tolerance and understanding of other cultures, we should also be realistic about the people and the culture two hundred years in our past.

I'm glad our present culture is vehemently opposed to all forms of racism and slavery, but it doesn't mean we have to be dishonest about it.

Aggie Hoopsfan
12-11-2004, 06:11 PM
Dan, you know that if Osama wins, women, blacks, and whites will all be slaves of the Muslims, right?

Just interested to hear your perspective on this, "conservative Muslims" who practice Salafi/Wahhabi/Sunni Islam consider slavery one of the fundamental tenants of their religion.

So what say you on that one?

exstatic
12-11-2004, 08:35 PM
Obviously none of us have read the entire booklet, but if that's the worst of it, I'm hard-pressed to see what the big deal is.
I'm just too stunned by this to formulate a response.

Slavery was a horrible institution which should never be repeated, but it wasn't all "Uncle Tom's Cabin."
My question would be: How do you know?

As for the poor southern white folk in dire straits, you didn't see them flocking to the plantations to fucking sign up for the slavery gig, now, did you?

scott
12-11-2004, 09:48 PM
"Slavery as it existed in the South was not an adversarial relationship with pervasive racial animosity. Because of its dominantly patriarchal character, it was a relationship based upon mutual affection and confidence."

This assertion requires argument?

Uncle Donnie
12-11-2004, 10:11 PM
Oh, man, those private schools are SO much better than the crap they teach in public school.

In many cases that's true. Of course there are examples of bad private schools. And of course you can generalize based on one fucked up example if you want to talk out of your ass.

exstatic
12-11-2004, 11:15 PM
There are lots of good public schools, and that doesn't stop a lot of generalizations on the other side, either.

Spurminator
12-12-2004, 12:40 AM
This assertion requires argument?


It deserves some contemplation, certainly. Did every slave feel they lived a tortured, imprisoned existence? Was every slave treated with no compassion whatsoever?

If the pamphlet implies that all slave situations were such, then I would say it's painting a poor picture of slavery. But it seems to me that the writers have acknowledged that it was flawed, sinful and wrong based on the quote from page 22.


As for the poor southern white folk in dire straits, you didn't see them flocking to the plantations to fucking sign up for the slavery gig, now, did you?

I don't see your point. I don't see anything suggesting that slaves would choose a life of slavery over a life of freedom. What I see is a point of view that suggests that maybe they didn't live the tortured and hellish existence we have been led to believe.


I'm just too stunned by this to formulate a response.

Try.

I think it's interesting to ponder the points of view of most slaves/slaveowners at the time. Did they feel trapped or enslaved? Did they feel as though their lives were unfulfilled? In hindsight, we can easily see how they were mistreated, and how the institution of slavery itself was an awful and regretable thing. But I think it's important to look at these things in the context of the culture at that time. I think it's intellectually dishonest to paint all slaveowners as cruel, inhumane racists and all slaves as tortured and miserable victims. That's the accepted portrayal in textbooks today...

But would this be an acceptable portrayal of Middle Eastern Muslims? The same people who fight so hard to maintain the demonization of slaveowners would likely balk at any such broad portrayal of Muslims who treat their women as inferiors. When it comes to other cultures today, we are encouraged to be tolerant and understanding of the cultures in which these people live. And I agree with this perspective... I just think it should also apply to past cultures as well.

Spurminator
12-12-2004, 12:48 AM
Here's my thought in a nutshell, with regards to the booklet...

Does it provide any sources?

If not, then it's worthless.

Aggie Hoopsfan
12-12-2004, 12:58 AM
Oh, man, those private schools are SO much better than the crap they teach in public school.


Well you could take this some "logic", and even though not all mosques are bad, there are some where the attendees are told to kill all Americans, so should we shut down all mosques?

exstatic
12-12-2004, 01:01 AM
The same people who fight so hard to maintain the demonization of slaveowners would likely balk at any such broad portrayal of Muslims who treat their women as inferiors.

If you're a regular in the Pol forum, you'll know that I'm one of the biggest bashers of the whole "culture" of the Middle East. Our "allies" in the region (Saudi, UAE) are some of the worst human rights offenders. It's not just the women, either. In the UAE, they buy little boys from other Muslim countries like Bangladesh, and use them as riders in camel races. The boys live in abject poverty, and frequently die as they are give little food (to keep them light) and no medical care. Meanwhile, the camels have the best veteranary care money can buy, and have a private swimming pool and the best food available. Unsurprisingly, news crews are no longer allowed in with TV or film cameras. The documentary I watched was filmed with hidden cameras at great risk to the participants several years after these things were supposedly "outlawed". They obviously take more interest in enforcing the camera laws than taking care of those little boys.

Spurminator
12-12-2004, 01:13 AM
Well, at least you're consistent with your views on both. That's all I ask...

I think you'd agree, though, that many Muslim women/children (for whatever reason) feel content with their lives. And I think a parallel can be drawn to early American slaves, many of whom chose to stay with their masters after they were freed by the government, others keeping their slave names.

I don't think it's necessarily a justification of slavery to suggest that some slaves were, in fact, happy with their situations.

exstatic
12-12-2004, 03:09 AM
People Stayed with Jim Jones in Guyana, too. I believe it's called the Stockholm syndrome. You begin to empathize with your captors. Doesn't mean it's right, or you're free. It's a form of being brainwashed.

Nbadan
12-12-2004, 03:54 AM
It wasn't only that. For a lot of these suddenly free slaves, farming was the only thing most had ever done and it wasn't like there was abundance of on-the-job training or empathy with the 'plight' of these freed slaves, especially in the South. Many stayed because plantations needed workers to survive and they needed jobs, but the dynamix of the farming relationship changed. Many former plantations owners gave the 'workers' acres on top of their pay in which they could grow whatever they needed to help their families. Others offered a roof to live under and a steady paycheck.

These slaves where thrown into this existence against their free will, and despite the hellish realities of slavery, the forced labor, the degradation, the torture, the taking of someone's free-will, some managed to squeak out a respectable life in the end. However, to suggest that this existence was preferable to any alternative existences given the circumstances of the time, is just plain wrong.