Time Warner and NFL network still unresolved

[BacktoBasics]

Yeah I'm too lazy to find a link but it looks like nothing is going to happen anytime soon. Cowboys fans will be pissed because 2 games are on the NFL network this year...the most of any team. I believe it will be 8 games total.

Time Warner wants to make it a pay channel like the NBA and the NFL Network wants it to be available to regular cable payers. Hence the hold up. It would be nice to see this resolved. I sent some ugly letters last year to both parties but shockingly I didn't get a response.

[Obstructed_View]

The Cowboys will be charging for radio broadcasts before long.

[BeerIsGood!]

Well, I guess I know which two games I'll be watching at the sports bar around the corner.

[degenerate_gambler]

Earlier this year Time Warner bought out Comcast and another cable operator that I can't recall, both of which had the NFL network as part of their programming. Now that TW owns them, on Sept 3, all those customers that used to have it as part of their cable package will no longer be able to get the NFL network.

[BacktoBasics]

I don't know who I'm more pissed at.

[degenerate_gambler]

I don't know who I'm more pissed at.


I'd go with TW.

Grande has survived so far carrying the NFL Network and they are nowhere near TW when it comes to $$$.



I'm just glad I have DirectTV.

[mardigan]

Earlier this year Time Warner bought out Comcast and another cable operator that I can't recall, both of which had the NFL network as part of their programming. Now that TW owns them, on Sept 3, all those customers that used to have it as part of their cable package will no longer be able to get the NFL network.
I wish, I have Comcast and they took the NFL Network away over a month ago

[kskonn]

DirectV is the only way to go. Time warner is the punck in this situation. All over the country smaller cable companies are able to carry the NFK network at no charge and still be profitable. Not to mention that Directv carries it at no additional charge. Time warner has a history of not wanting to step up to the plate when it comes to providing their customers with the best in sports programming. I remember that they use to not carry Fox High def, which I believe meant no superbowl, they event went through a period where they did not carry fox sports because they were jealous of the relationship that Directv had built with Fox. I sounds to me like they are getting owned in the free market and are just whining instead of stepping up and making things happen.

[CubanMustGo]

Dish has NFL network in its basic packages too.

[greenroom]

Dish has NFL network in its basic packages too.


To me if your going to go to satalitte why not get the DirectTV package w/ the NFL Ticket.

[Horry For 3!]

Got damn it. Fuckin Time Warner. Another reason to hate them.

[BeerIsGood!]

To me if your going to go to satalitte why not get the DirectTV package w/ the NFL Ticket.

Because it's around $250 to $300, right?

[Holmes_Fans]

I blame the NFL network. They charge companies something like 250 million to carry the channel. I don't blame the cable companies charging to make back profit.

I am just glad I am in the viewing area for cowboy games, NFL network games are on TXA 21 in Dallas

[SrA Husker]

A fore-warning for anyone considering switching to Grande to get the games... last year, while Grande indeed did carry the NFL network, they DID NOT pay more money to be able to carry the live NFL games. I went to a friends house with grande last year to watch Broncos/Chiefs and was severely pissed off when it didn't come on and instead a scrolling message saying you got screwed.

[Chris]

Looks like I'll get to use sopcast again this year. Who needs NFL Network when you have the internets?

[lotr1trekkie]

Years ago on satellite you could buy regional packages at a lesser cost in te NBA and NHL. I think that would be a better system. I would not want to pay $300 so I could see 14 games on Sunday. Don't have the time. Why not let fans buy a package that only carries their favorite team for one-fourth the cost? AFC West, NFC East, or more than one package for about $75/ division. As an immigrant from NYC 20 years ago, I really could care less about the Cowboys or Texans but I would be willing to pay for my NY Jets. I'm sure other San Antonians would love to watch the Bears, Texans, Eagles or 49er's every week but can't afford the entire package.

[BacktoBasics]

Who should I email? Anyone got a email address I can use to complain. I feel pretty annoyed this morning by all this.

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

http://consumerist.com/consumer/children%2C-play-nice%21/leaks-time-warner-cable-vs-nfl-network-customer-retention-document-289058.php

[BacktoBasics]

Reading all that shit just makes me mad as hell. Everyone wants their millions one way or another.

[kskonn]

Years ago on satellite you could buy regional packages at a lesser cost in te NBA and NHL. I think that would be a better system. I would not want to pay $300 so I could see 14 games on Sunday. Don't have the time. Why not let fans buy a package that only carries their favorite team for one-fourth the cost? AFC West, NFC East, or more than one package for about $75/ division. As an immigrant from NYC 20 years ago, I really could care less about the Cowboys or Texans but I would be willing to pay for my NY Jets. I'm sure other San Antonians would love to watch the Bears, Texans, Eagles or 49er's every week but can't afford the entire package.


I can't speak for the NFL package but I can tell that the college package allows you to but individual games. So if your team is not broadcasted that week you can buy just that game. It works out pretty well since most teams have about 60% of their games on national TV.

[kskonn]

Dish has NFL network in its basic packages too.


Yea I know, I was just using Directv since they are the most comparable with the size of their customer base. I know Dish is owned by AT&T but Dishs customer base is much smaller than Directv. At one point Directv was going to buy Dish but they blocked it saying that it would create a monopoly in the Satelite TV market.

[2centsworth]

I'm happy with my Dish. I left TW entirely because of the NFL network.

[kskonn]

I'm happy with my Dish. I left TW entirely because of the NFL network.


I left because of the crappy service, the NFL network has been a nice bonus, Along with the multitude of High Def channels they offer.

[leemajors]

DirectV is the only way to go. Time warner is the punck in this situation. All over the country smaller cable companies are able to carry the NFK network at no charge and still be profitable. Not to mention that Directv carries it at no additional charge. Time warner has a history of not wanting to step up to the plate when it comes to providing their customers with the best in sports programming. I remember that they use to not carry Fox High def, which I believe meant no superbowl, they event went through a period where they did not carry fox sports because they were jealous of the relationship that Directv had built with Fox. I sounds to me like they are getting owned in the free market and are just whining instead of stepping up and making things happen.
the NFL sold sunday ticket rights to a service that is available to 25% of american homes. they think they can hold time warner hostage too because their sport has been on top for a while. the NFL is as arrogant as a business gets.

[BacktoBasics]

Grande is in. They got the games and they'll be on a seperate tier for about 12 bucks. I'm not sure why NFL network is ok with Grande putting it on a tier and charging for it but not TW. In any event everyone should make the switch. I know I will.

[Mr Dio]

A fore-warning for anyone considering switching to Grande to get the games... last year, while Grande indeed did carry the NFL network, they DID NOT pay more money to be able to carry the live NFL games. I went to a friends house with grande last year to watch Broncos/Chiefs and was severely pissed off when it didn't come on and instead a scrolling message saying you got screwed.


I had the same package with Grande last yr & was totally freaking hyped for the 1st game & was pissed when I got the scroll message on the bottom saying I wasn't in the home teams local area & couldn't view the game.

I was ok with it til the Dallas vs Atl game in Dec & was left scrambling to find a place to watch the game like all the other Grande screwed customers.

Good luck if you get the package & pay $12 like I did last yr.
I'll be seeing you in a bar like Buffalo Wild Wings watching the Cowboys because you ain't seeing it on Grande.

[BacktoBasics]

I had the same package with Grande last yr & was totally freaking hyped for the 1st game & was pissed when I got the scroll message on the bottom saying I wasn't in the home teams local area & couldn't view the game.

I was ok with it til the Dallas vs Atl game in Dec & was left scrambling to find a place to watch the game like all the other Grande screwed customers.

Good luck if you get the package & pay $12 like I did last yr.
I'll be seeing you in a bar like Buffalo Wild Wings watching the Cowboys because you ain't seeing it on Grande.
A couple of posts above I reported that Grande struck a deal with the NFL network and the games will be on the tier this year. So if you have Grande you aren't going to get the shaft this year.

[BacktoBasics]

Thursday, August 30, 2007

By Mike Copeland

Tribune-Herald business editor

Grande Communications will show all eight NFL Network games this football season on its standard digital package, including two involving the Dallas Cowboys and another featuring the Houston Texans.


This would appear to give it a competitive advantage over Time Warner Cable among rabid Central Texas football fans.

Last season neither local cable company carried NFL Network games, but each hosted parties at restaurants the evening of Dec. 16, when the Cowboys butted heads with the Atlanta Falcons.

NFL Network games on Grande


A rundown of the NFL Network games that Grande Communications will air this season. All start at 7 p.m.

Nov. 29 — Dallas Cowboys vs. Green Bay Packers
Dec. 6 — Chicago Bears vs. Washington Redskins
Dec. 13 — Houston Texans vs. Denver Broncos
Dec. 15 — Cincinnati Bengals vs. San Francisco 49ers
Dec. 20 — Pittsburgh Steelers vs. St. Louis Rams
Dec. 22 — Dallas Cowboys vs. Carolina Panthers
Dec. 29 — New England Patriots vs. New York Giants

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Grande will carry the NFL Network’s eight-game schedule, which features games on Thursdays and Saturdays, on Digital Channel 128. For basic digital, Grande charges $56.95 a month, Rohre said. That’s a $2-a-month increase over last year’s monthly digital rate. Rohre said the price bump went into effect in January.

“Last year we faced a lot of questions from our customers over just one game involving the Cowboys. This season, there are going to be two Dallas games and a Houston Texans game, so we knew we needed to respond to our customers’ wishes,” Rohre said.

The NFL Network is the official network of the National Football League, which makes a limited number of games available to satellite providers and cable companies that negotiate deals.

It appears Time Warner Cable will not be showing NFL Network games this year, though negotiations are continuing. The two sides have locked horns over the issue of showing the games on a special sports tier for which cable customers would pay extra.

The cable company wants to do business that way, but NFL Network spokesman Seth Palansky said, “A tier goes straight to the bottom line of our fans, and it is not an acceptable resolution to us.”

NFL Network wants the games included in a basic package, where the games can be seen by more people.

Palansky said more than 200 companies nationwide carry the games provided by NFL Network. Time Warner Cable could be doing the same, he said, if it were serious about negotiating a deal.

“It really just comes down to this: They are not just a cable company. They own a bunch of channels as well, and they don’t want competition for those channels. They have proposed a sports tier, but we don’t believe in that kind of pay-per-view approach.”

Stacy Schmitt, vice president of public affairs for local Time Warner Cable operations, said the company believes a tier system would allow those wanting to watch the games to pay for them.

The company has proposed placing NFL Network on a sports tier for which it charges digital customers an extra $2.50 a month. This 11-channel tier is for true sports junkies, said Schmitt, and offers such fare as the tennis and soccer channels, ESPN News and a variety of Fox Sports offerings from different regions of the country.

Schmitt said the company has no plans to raise the $2.50 monthly fee if NFL Network becomes part of the tier. For basic digital service, Time Warner Cable charges $59.45 a month.

“We are still in active negotiations with NFL Network. Our stance remains that it belongs on a sports tier, but they are unwilling to accept that,” said Maureen Huff, a Time Warner Cable spokeswoman at company headquarters in New York.

Huff acknowledged that a separate division of Time Warner Inc. owns such networks as HBO and Turner Broadcasting System. But she called it a stretch to suggest that Time Warner Cable would not want to carry NFL Network because the games might compete with Turner Classic Movies.

“I don’t understand (Palansky’s) thinking on that,” she said, adding that Time Warner Cable carries a lot of sports networks, including the popular ESPN, “in which we have no ownership.”

Palansky repeated NFL Network’s stance that it is not interested in having its games offered on a special tier.

“Our channel costs the companies 2 cents a day per customer. but consumers paying for an extra tier could pay 20 times that amount (in some markets),” said Palansky. “That is not in the best interest of our customers, so it is not in our best interest.”

[email protected]

757-5736

[mardigan]

Jones To Head NFL Network Committee

The NFL announced on Monday the appointment of Cowboys owner and general manager Jerry Jones as the new chairman of the NFL Network Committee, which acts as the executive board of the league's year-round television service.

The Cowboys appear twice on NFL Network's live game schedule this season (Nov. 29 vs. Green Bay; Dec. 22 at Carolina) and as a result, Jones is keenly aware of fan interest in NFL Network.

"My immediate and primary objective is to ensure broad distribution of NFL Network to our millions of fans across the land," Jones said. "Today there are more options than ever before for consumers in terms of choosing a television provider. Satellite companies like DirecTV and Dish Network and telecommunications companies like Verizon and AT&T offer NFL Network on broad packages without extra costs to consumers.

"Those fans whose access to NFL Network is still being blocked by their cable provider will have both the opportunity and the incentive to switch providers if cable continues to deny customers the programming they want."

http://www.dallascowboys.com/news.cfm?id=844234E9-ED9E-E919-B8135E390F0D8F79

[fyatuk]

A fore-warning for anyone considering switching to Grande to get the games... last year, while Grande indeed did carry the NFL network, they DID NOT pay more money to be able to carry the live NFL games. I went to a friends house with grande last year to watch Broncos/Chiefs and was severely pissed off when it didn't come on and instead a scrolling message saying you got screwed.

That was resolved and Grande is indeed carrying games this year. So sayeth my email from Grande that had me going "yippee"! a month or two ago.

[Taco]

http://www.ksat.com/sports/14399355/detail.html

KSAT.com
Time Warner Makes Offer To NFL Network
Time Warner Hopes To Add Pay-Per-View Football Channel

POSTED: 8:41 pm CDT October 22, 2007
UPDATED: 7:08 am CDT October 23, 2007


SAN ANTONIO -- The fight continues between the NFL Network and Time Warner Cable, and it could affect how viewers watch the Cowboys play this season.

The cable company said Monday it would be offering up a solution that would allow customers to pay for and watch NFL games on a per-game basis.

"It's a channel that allows NFL to put these games on and allows the NFL to charge whatever price they may want," said Jon Gary Herrera, of Time Warner Cable. "In addition, we said, we don't want any of the dollars. NFL: whatever you charge you will get 100 percent of that revenue."

The proposed network will carry eight regular season games, including two Cowboys games and one Texans game.

The NFL said it wants the channel to be included on the basic cable package, but Time Warner said that would force them to raise prices for all customers -- whether they want the channel or not.

So far, the NFL has refused any negotiations and has even launched an advertising campaign pressuring Time Warner to carry its network or encouraging viewers to switch to satellite TV.
Copyright

[Hook Dem]

'As the stomach turns" !!!!!!!!! :madrun

[pooh]

get directv, it's cheaper and you don't have to put up with that Time Warner monopoly crap

[fyatuk]

get directv, it's cheaper and you don't have to put up with that Time Warner monopoly crap

Or get Grande (if they have extended to your area). It's cheaper than TW and eliminates the monopoly consideration, and they carry the full NFL network on their base digital package ;)

[Hook Dem]

From the desk of

Robert D. Marcus

Senior Executive Vice President



Oct. 22, 2007

Mr. Steven M. Bornstein
President & CEO
NFL Network
10950 Washington Boulevard, Suite 100
Culver City, CA 90232

Dear Steve:

As you know, Time Warner Cable always has been interested in trying to find a way to offer the NFL Network to our customers who want it at a reasonable cost, while not imposing substantial costs on those who don't. I am sure you share my disappointment that, to date, our efforts to reach such an arrangement have been unsuccessful. In your recent lobbying efforts, you have expressed concern that Time Warner Cable customers in out-of-market areas will be unable to view certain NFL Network games. We too would like to make sure that our customers who want to see these out-of-market games will be able to do so.

With that goal in mind, and to put the interests of fans first, we have a new proposal, which is in addition to our prior proposals to carry the NFL Network on a sports tier or premium basis and which still stand. In particular, Time Warner Cable would be willing to make the NFL Network games available to our customers on a per-game basis, at a retail price set by the NFL, with 100% of the revenue collected for this programming going to the NFL. While carriage with no mark-up to us is far from ideal from our point of view, we are willing to take this step to make sure no interested fan is unable to watch these games on our systems.

We are excited about this potential opportunity to allow those customers who want to view these NFL games to have access to them. If this proposal is agreeable to you, we are prepared to work expeditiously with your team to embody it in a definitive agreement.



Sincerely,



Robert D. Marcus

[BacktoBasics]

This is going to start an avalanche of hell if we end up having to actually pay to see a game.

[Hook Dem]

This is going to start an avalanche of hell if we end up having to actually pay to see a game.
Blame the NFL network headed by Jerry Jones!

[BacktoBasics]

Blame the NFL network headed by Jerry Jones!Well not entirely. The NFL network wants TW to carry the channel free of charge to us at TW's expense and TW makes the money on advertising. TW wants to charge customers for the station rather than raise the price of cable a few bucks, this would make them a ton more money. I think TW should carry the channel free of charge just like the Golf channel and so forth. The market and demand is large enough. TW is just too greedy because they know if push comes to shove TW is bigger than the NFL Network.

The price of cable is going to go up no matter what and if you start charging for games now its not going to end well for the fans.

[leemajors]

Well not entirely. The NFL network wants TW to carry the channel free of charge to us at TW's expense and TW makes the money on advertising. TW wants to charge customers for the station rather than raise the price of cable a few bucks, this would make them a ton more money. I think TW should carry the channel free of charge just like the Golf channel and so forth. The market and demand is large enough. TW is just too greedy because they know if push comes to shove TW is bigger than the NFL Network.

The price of cable is going to go up no matter what and if you start charging for games now its not going to end well for the fans.
the golf channel is part of the sports pack, isn't it? NFL wants it part of basic cable, which is kinda stupid (assuming the situation is still the same). TW wants it to be part of a sports package like NBA TV is, which doesn't sound unreasonable to me. if the NFL network didn't totally suck ass for coverage and personnel, it would probably piss me off. i can always check the games at my friend's house.

[BacktoBasics]

I don't think a sports package is unreasonable. It used to be the NBA, NFL and one other channel for 8 bucks. I'm good with that. But to have to pay 10 or more bucks for just a game is retarded, I would not be shocked to see it be a PPV event running 20-25 bucks. I bet the NFL network would rival most regular cable channels. TW is just greedy and when that much greed is envolved on both ends it'll end badly for the consumer.

I don't have any special tier for the Golf channel.

[exstatic]

I'm betting that the Golf Channel doesn't charge TWC as much as NFL TV wants to. :) Try to keep your eye on the ball: the NFL are the ones that decided to take games off of free Sunday network stations and monetize them. TWC wants to market them to sports tier channel subscribers. That would cut the NFL's revenue to only those subscribers instead of all subscribers. Hence, the war. Stern and the NBA tried this a few years ago, and failed miserably, thank God. NBA TV is now a marginal Sports tier channel. If these broad subscriber power plays by the leagues succeed, we'll see very little remaining free sports programming.

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

Anybody still have that *Wink Wink* for NFL viewing?

[Trainwreck2100]

It's funny seeing one monopoly fighting another

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

It's funny seeing one monopoly fighting another

You don't fuck with Rich Uncle Pennybags.

[Cloud786]

If I'm in Waco, will the game be televised on a local station like fsn or something? We get Mavs games there all the time...

[exstatic]

No. If you don't have NFL TV, you don't see the game...unless you go to a sports bar. Again, only NFL TV will broadcast the Cowboys/Packers game, no matter where you are.

[JustSpurs]

If I'm in Waco, will the game be televised on a local station like fsn or something? We get Mavs games there all the time...
Unless you live in The Metroplex or the Green Bay Market, you'll have to hoof it to a bar like the rest of us w/o the NFL Network.

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/spt/football/cowboys/stories/112507dnsponfllede.1a7f623.html

[TampaDude]

Fuck TW and the NFL Network...

[leemajors]

Fuck TW and the NFL Network...
add jerry jones to that list.

[resistanze]

Weird, I'm getting the NFL Network feed from a local sports station up here in Toronto (TSN). I have NFLN anyways, but I'm still surprised it isn't being fed on any local stations down there.

[cherylsteele]

I don't think a sports package is unreasonable. It used to be the NBA, NFL and one other channel for 8 bucks. I'm good with that. But to have to pay 10 or more bucks for just a game is retarded, I would not be shocked to see it be a PPV event running 20-25 bucks. I bet the NFL network would rival most regular cable channels. TW is just greedy and when that much greed is envolved on both ends it'll end badly for the consumer.

I don't have any special tier for the Golf channel.
The NFL wants TW to add the NFL Network to its basic package and charge for it on top of that, whether the subscriber wants the channel or not. Someone who does not want to pay will have no choice but to pay for it, the NFL wants to force TW customers to pay for the channel whether they want to or not. So if you have cable and are not a football fan....TS. TW believes that only those who want the the channel should pay, they don't want to force everyone to have to have it.


On top of that the network is only showing 8 games during the year, less than one per week, this after showing 52 pre-season games, that is the rip-off IMO. NBA TV shows that many in just 2 weeks or so.

[BeerIsGood!]

The NFL wants TW to add the NFL Network to its basic package and charge for it on top of that, whether the subscriber wants the channel or not. Someone who does not want to pay will have no choice but to pay for it, the NFL wants to force TW customers to pay for the channel whether they want to or not. So if you have cable and are not a football fan....TS. TW believes that only those who want the the channel should pay, they don't want to force everyone to have to have it.


On top of that the network is only showing 8 games during the year, less than one per week, this after showing 52 pre-season games, that is the rip-off IMO. NBA TV shows that many in just 2 weeks or so.

The NBA has each team playing 82 games a season, and has 40+ games a week. The NFL has 16 game schedules and about that many games a week. Bad comparison, but both of these assholes are to blame for being flat out greedy. I personally don't give a shit as I am local in the metroplex and will get the Cowboys on local TV, but it sucks for fellow Cowboys fans who have to go to a sportsbar to watch a damn NFL game.

[J.T.]

The NBA has each team playing 82 games a season, and has 40+ games a week. The NFL has 16 game schedules and about that many games a week. Bad comparison, but both of these assholes are to blame for being flat out greedy. I personally don't give a shit as I am local in the metroplex and will get the Cowboys on local TV, but it sucks for fellow Cowboys fans who have to go to a sportsbar to watch a damn NFL game.

The internet is a mysterious and powerful device, and its mystery is only exceeded by its power. Case in point, I am a Colts fan living in Texas and have seen all of their games so far this year.... I don't have NFL Sunday Ticket or the NFL Network which means I, theoretically, should have been cock blocked out of at least half of their games so far depending on CBS blackouts. You don't have to go to bars to watch NFL games that are blacked out or on the NFL Network.

[cherylsteele]

Bad comparison? Why?
There are some weeks that NFL Network is showing no games, why?
At least one per week would be an improvement, this after showing 52 pre-season games.
The NFL wants you to pay for extra for just eight games while all the other games are either on basic cable or free over the air TV.
TW offered the NFL PPV at a total profit for the NFL, and was turned down last I heard. They denied TW Sunday Ticket, where the subscriber could pick and choose what and when to watch games. IMO it is a total money grab by the NFL in this instance.

Comcast has it on their Sports tier in Houston, but the NFL won't allow TW the same choice here. Grande has NFL Network on their Digital package, but won't allow TW the same deal, why? IMO they really don't care about the fans.The NFL wants to force it upon practically everybody who subscribes to it at an extra charge. They charge for WGN & WTBS, but you have a choice of whether or not to receive those chnnls, why not NFL network too?

[BeerIsGood!]

The internet is a mysterious and powerful device, and its mystery is only exceeded by its power. Case in point, I am a Colts fan living in Texas and have seen all of their games so far this year.... I don't have NFL Sunday Ticket or the NFL Network which means I, theoretically, should have been cock blocked out of at least half of their games so far depending on CBS blackouts. You don't have to go to bars to watch NFL games that are blacked out or on the NFL Network.

Good for you. Go watch your pirated broadcasts and enjoy.

[Taco]

BOO THE NFL, NFL Network and Jerry Jones, they are trying to blame Time Warner for not carring the games?!?!?!

I could see their point if I lived in New York and was a Cowboys fan and wanted to see the game.

But why should we be forced to pay for games that were always shown on local tv or ESPN stations?

its all about the $$$$

once again we get screwed

it's not Time Warner its the Greedy NFL

[BacktoBasics]

The NFL wants TW to add the NFL Network to its basic package and charge for it on top of that, whether the subscriber wants the channel or not. Someone who does not want to pay will have no choice but to pay for it, the NFL wants to force TW customers to pay for the channel whether they want to or not. So if you have cable and are not a football fan....TS. TW believes that only those who want the the channel should pay, they don't want to force everyone to have to have it.


On top of that the network is only showing 8 games during the year, less than one per week, this after showing 52 pre-season games, that is the rip-off IMO. NBA TV shows that many in just 2 weeks or so.The thing is that its the same (less the individual charge) for every other channel. It wasn't discussed but the price of regular cable went up with The Food Network and each and nearly every other specialty channel thats ever made it to cable. Its a pissing match over money and TW doesn't want to pay the asking price for the NFL network, they want to pay less and charge for it. The flip side of that is that the NFL network won't get shit for advertising on the channel if only a few homes pay for it vs. being an available channel for everyone.

Think of it this way.....if you are going to advertise Ford trucks you would be inclided to pay a little extra and put your spot on ESPN rather than put your spot on a pay channel that most people don't have. So the asking price for advertising commercials dips dramatically unless the channel is available to everyone.

TW holds the cards and they are going to be as greedy as they like. They expect the NFL network to fold because of TW size. Both a bunch of assholes if you ask me.

[BacktoBasics]

Seriously though, the solution is to just get Grande. Make TW pay for their greed by switching. I'm not a fan of the NFL Network but I don't think their expectation is too high for TW. We are talking about a buck and half hike in cable prices to put this on the basic platform, a buck and half that we would have seen hiked anyway.

[Taco]

Seriously though, the solution is to just get Grande. Make TW pay for their greed by switching. I'm not a fan of the NFL Network but I don't think their expectation is too high for TW. We are talking about a buck and half hike in cable prices to put this on the basic platform, a buck and half that we would have seen hiked anyway.



why should we be forced to pay for games that were always shown on local tv or on ESPN


it's not Time Warner its the Greedy NFL

[leemajors]

The thing is that its the same (less the individual charge) for every other channel. It wasn't discussed but the price of regular cable went up with The Food Network and each and nearly every other specialty channel thats ever made it to cable. Its a pissing match over money and TW doesn't want to pay the asking price for the NFL network, they want to pay less and charge for it. The flip side of that is that the NFL network won't get shit for advertising on the channel if only a few homes pay for it vs. being an available channel for everyone.

Think of it this way.....if you are going to advertise Ford trucks you would be inclided to pay a little extra and put your spot on ESPN rather than put your spot on a pay channel that most people don't have. So the asking price for advertising commercials dips dramatically unless the channel is available to everyone.

TW holds the cards and they are going to be as greedy as they like. They expect the NFL network to fold because of TW size. Both a bunch of assholes if you ask me.
i totally agree with you, but i think the NFL is being a bit more ridiculous - the NFL network is essentially a worthless channel except for those eight games. who the hell wants to watch it outside of the 4-5 months a year that the sport is active? let TW put it in the sports package just like the NBA network for chrissakes. it's already bad enough that they screw over half their audience with Sunday Ticket only being on DirecTV. Then you hear JJ actively pimping Dish on the radio because TW won't have the boys on Thursday. it just makes me sick.

[BacktoBasics]

why should we be forced to pay for games that were always shown on local tv or on ESPN


it's not Time Warner its the Greedy NFL

I don't disagree with you Taco but things change. Its like saying "why should we pay for three dollar gas when it was only a buck fifty 3 years ago."

I hate them both and I hope they both die. TW knows they can fuck with the NFL Network, they didn't do this to the other stations with the same demands.

[Taco]

I don't disagree with you Taco but things change. Its like saying "why should we pay for three dollar gas when it was only a buck fifty 3 years ago."



LET'S ALL GET A HYBRID!!! :sequ
:spin

[BacktoBasics]

LET'S ALL GET A HYBRID!!! :sequ
:spinI laughed out loud

[2centsworth]

NFL wants .65 per subscriber. ESPN collects about $3.

TW wants to charge an extra $15 or so for their sports tier which they know the NFL Network would make more valuable.

Seems to me that the NFL should allow TW to do what it wants, but instead charge them $3 per subscriber instead of .65. Of course, TW still wants to pay .65 which is what the NFL gets for basic from other cable and satellite providers.

TW is going to need to bite the bullet if they begin to lose too many subcribers.

The consumer should totally be on the side of the NFL!

[Taco]

NFL wants .65 per subscriber. ESPN collects about $3.

TW wants to charge an extra $15 or so for their sports tier which they know the NFL Network would make more valuable.

Seems to me that the NFL should allow TW to do what it wants, but instead charge them $3 per subscriber instead of .65. Of course, TW still wants to pay .65 which is what the NFL gets for basic from other cable and satellite providers.

TW is going to need to bite the bullet if they begin to lose too many subcribers.

The consumer should totally be on the side of the NFL!

WHAT EXACTLY DOES TW's "SPORTS TIER" CURRENTLY CONSIST OF?

[BacktoBasics]

By filing a cease and decist I'm getting the impression that TW is beginning to feel a little crunch.

[BacktoBasics]

NFL wants .65 per subscriber. ESPN collects about $3.

TW wants to charge an extra $15 or so for their sports tier which they know the NFL Network would make more valuable.

Seems to me that the NFL should allow TW to do what it wants, but instead charge them $3 per subscriber instead of .65. Of course, TW still wants to pay .65 which is what the NFL gets for basic from other cable and satellite providers.

TW is going to need to bite the bullet if they begin to lose too many subcribers.

The consumer should totally be on the side of the NFL!Even with a 3 dollar change, there is no way they could collect enough to even get close to the advertising monies they'd lose by being on a pay tier vs. regular cable.

[leemajors]

The consumer should totally be on the side of the NFL!
the NFL is rarely on the side of the consumer, why should we be?

[maxpower]

I am simplifying it too much but
If comcast, directv, dish and others can work something out...that to me puts the blame on one entity.
p.s. nfl network on Dish is not on any special tier...as a matter of fact, nba tv is on sports tier with Dish while NFL network is on top 100 or top 150.

[2centsworth]

the NFL is rarely on the side of the consumer, why should we be?
I'm not supporting the entire NFL per se, but am supporting the consumer 100% which means I must support the NFL in this case.

[2centsworth]

WHAT EXACTLY DOES TW's "SPORTS TIER" CURRENTLY CONSIST OF?
http://www.timewarnercable.com/SanAntonio/Products/Cable/sportspackage.html


NFL network would be the only thing of real value.

[Taco]

http://www.timewarnercable.com/SanAntonio/Products/Cable/sportspackage.html


NFL network would be the only thing of real value.

Enjoy all sports, all day with Time Warner Cable's Sports Package for only $8.95 a month!*

WHAT?

I'VE BEEN HEARING THAT DUDE FROM TW SAY SEVERAL TIMES IT WOULD ONLY BE $5.00 FOR THE SPORTS TIER

[2centsworth]

Enjoy all sports, all day with Time Warner Cable's Sports Package for only $8.95 a month!*

WHAT?

I'VE BEEN HEARING THAT DUDE FROM TW SAY SEVERAL TIMES IT WOULD ONLY BE $5.00 FOR THE SPORTS TIER
the * means the price doesn't include taxes and fees. Plus, the addition of the NFL network would give them leverage to increase the price even more.

[Taco]

Enjoy all sports, all day with Time Warner Cable's Sports Package for only $8.95 a month!*

WHAT?

I'VE BEEN HEARING THAT DUDE FROM TW SAY SEVERAL TIMES IT WOULD ONLY BE $5.00 FOR THE SPORTS TIER


http://www.timewarnercable.com/sanantonio/products/pricelist/cablealacarte.html

Sports Service
NBA TV, Speed Channel, Outdoor Channel, Fox Sports World, GSN, ESPNews, FCS Atlantic, FCS Central, FCS Pacific, The Tennis Channel, Fuel, and CSTV. $5.00/mo.

Sports Package
Includes Sports Service channels and Bevo On Demand $8.95/mo.

[2centsworth]

http://www.timewarnercable.com/sanantonio/products/pricelist/cablealacarte.html

Sports Service
NBA TV, Speed Channel, Outdoor Channel, Fox Sports World, GSN, ESPNews, FCS Atlantic, FCS Central, FCS Pacific, The Tennis Channel, Fuel, and CSTV. $5.00/mo.

Sports Package
Includes Sports Service channels and Bevo On Demand $8.95/mo.The NFL network alone is worth all of those channels combined. Nevertheless, if you're in favor of paying extra for a channel that is includied in basic packages with other providers then sobeit.

I like getting more for less with Dish.

[leemajors]

the * means the price doesn't include taxes and fees. Plus, the addition of the NFL network would give them leverage to increase the price even more.
that's fine with me, as long as it's an optional thing. i ended up saving $5 a month for adding the sports pack in 2004 (somehow).

[exstatic]

I'm not supporting the entire NFL per se, but am supporting the consumer 100% which means I must support the NFL in this case.
You peeps supporting the NFL have fucking rocks in your head. You are ONLY looking at it from the POV of someone who already has cable or satellite. These were games that were on free airwave TV, so there are TONS of people who would be out more than a few bucks to see them. They would have to pay for a total cable/sat package.

Forcing the cable companies to carry this on the main tier is only step one. You can be sure that if this works, the NFL will start cherry picking the good games for PPV within a few years. Get ready for that if the NFL wins, and don't say you weren't warned.

[LEN BIAS 4EVER]

exstaic agree 100%.

I think the city of San Antonio got used on this one. It should have been demanded of Jones that in the contract for traing camp here in SA he must allow for this game to be broadcast locally on his silver star network or whatever that is that we see the preseason games on.

This city unilaterally supports the Cowboys and this is how we get repaid by Jones. Personally i wish the San Antonio would tell him to get lost and start talking to Benson about moving the Saints here.

San Antonio deserves its own NFL team, not to be shit upon by Jerry Jones.....

[2centsworth]

You peeps supporting the NFL have fucking rocks in your head. You are ONLY looking at it from the POV of someone who already has cable or satellite. These were games that were on free airwave TV, so there are TONS of people who would be out more than a few bucks to see them. They would have to pay for a total cable/sat package. Forcing the cable companies to carry this on the main tier is only step one. You can be sure that if this works, the NFL will start cherry picking the good games for PPV within a few years. Get ready for that if the NFL wins, and don't say you weren't warned.

you're way off in outerspace somewhere. The battle is not between free TV or Cable. THAT BATTLE HAS BEEN LOST!!!! If that's what you're fighting, you're in the wrong thread. Maybe at the same time you should fight to keep the analog TV the standard.

Basic Cable is the standard for a majority of households, especially the ones who watch the NFL. I would argue that Basic Cable is the equivalent to the old days. Nevertheless, who cares the battle is between paying extra for the NFL on a sports tier, that is surely to be $15 bucks extra a month, or keeping it on basic cable at no additional cost.

As far as the NFL is concerned, they are run by money. There's no money in PPV for the NFL compared to their current structure. We can argue that if you would like.

However, I have rocks in my head and am beneath your superior intellect, so you probably don't want to waste your time with me:drunk .

[BacktoBasics]

you're way off in outerspace somewhere. The battle is not between free TV or Cable. THAT BATTLE HAS BEEN LOST!!!! If that's what you're fighting, you're in the wrong thread. Maybe at the same time you should fight to keep the analog TV the standard.

Basic Cable is the standard for a majority of households, especially the ones who watch the NFL. I would argue that Basic Cable is the equivalent to the old days. Nevertheless, who cares the battle is between paying extra for the NFL on a sports tier, that is surely to be $15 bucks extra a month, or keeping it on basic cable at no additional cost.

As far as the NFL is concerned, they are run by money. There's no money in PPV for the NFL compared to their current structure. We can argue that if you would like.

However, I have rocks in my head and am beneath your superior intellect, so you probably don't want to waste your time with me:drunk .I agree. This is about TW wanting to charge vs. NFL Network earning advertising revenue JUST LIKE EVERY OTHER CHANNEL ON REGULAR CABLE DOES.

[2centsworth]

I agree. This is about TW wanting to charge vs. NFL Network earning advertising revenue JUST LIKE EVERY OTHER CHANNEL ON REGULAR CABLE DOES.
not only that, but the NFL believes that their product is supremely valuable to the networks and cable tv providers. Imagine if Cable had zero NFL games. How many subscribers do you think TW would have if that was the case? The NFL wants a piece of the subscriber pie, to the tune of about .65 per.

TW needs to eat it as the cost of doing business. Of course, TW wants the consumer to pay for it.

[leemajors]

i still don't see any reason for the NFL network to be on basic cable. it's a worthless channel outside of those 8 games. the NFL should give in a bit and let them put it in the sports tier.

[2centsworth]

i still don't see any reason for the NFL network to be on basic cable. it's a worthless channel outside of those 8 games. the NFL should give in a bit and let them put it in the sports tier.Have you read any of my post? It's about money, the NFL believes they deserve a bigger piece of the pie. I don't really care if they do or if they don't, just give me those games and whatever extras at no additional cost which is what I get with Dish. Consumers should switch to Dish or another provider and get what they want, and then see how fast TW changes their tune.

btw, the NFL network offers a whole lot more than just 8 games. On Sundays my TV is plugged in to the NFL network for my fantasy football stat tracker and REDZONE coverage. IT's off the hook!!! Also, NFL combines, Training camp reports, and Thanksgiving Night Football are other additional benefits. There will be more as the Network grows.

But if you only care about the 7 games then someone needs to pay for them and it sure isn't going to be me. I don't begrudge the #1 sport for growing.

Putting them in the sports tier means pennies compared to basic cable.

[BacktoBasics]

i still don't see any reason for the NFL network to be on basic cable. it's a worthless channel outside of those 8 games. the NFL should give in a bit and let them put it in the sports tier.The same could be said about Golf, Speed, cooking and so forth. It doesn't get much bigger than football in America and if you open up to millions of fans via a provider like TW the network can only go up.

[leemajors]

The same could be said about Golf, Speed, cooking and so forth. It doesn't get much bigger than football in America and if you open up to millions of fans via a provider like TW the network can only go up.
the food network is big business for both parties. as far as i know, golf and speed aren't part of basic cable. they show up in the sports tier just like versus and the extra FSN channels.

[BacktoBasics]

the food network is big business for both parties. as far as i know, golf and speed aren't part of basic cable. they show up in the sports tier just like versus and the extra FSN channels.The other motorsports channel maybe not speed Its channel 49 here in corpus. Golf is on my basic tier provided I have a box. Versus is part of my basic as well. Maybe its just different here, I don't know. I've never even looked at the other FSN channels, funny how thats probably the same fear NFL network has about a tier.

More importantly The NFL Network isn't asking anymore than what is expected in comparison to other specialty channels. With the right budget and programming there isn't any reason to think that the largest most followed sport in America couldn't rival Food Network. Remember how small Food Network was years back. The potential is there but forget it if its on a pay tier. The advertising budget would shrink drastically. Severely limiting the growth of a potential powerhouse channel.

[S_A_Longhorn]

First, I don't support the NFL in any way after the way they treated San Antonio after hosting the Saints in the wake of Katrina. I am rabid Cowboys fan tho. I only watch their games these days.

But those that support Time Warner are just ignorant of Time Warner's history. How soon people forget that Time Warner didn't carry Fox HD at first, and the San Antonio area did not get to see one of the recent Super Bowls in HD b/c of Time Warner. Also, this past summer, two channels were removed from basic standard cable (ESPN Classic channel 23 and GTV channel 78) and were placed on digital packages. Both of those channels REMAIN BLACK TODAY but the cost of basic standard did not go down one bit. The Outdoor network was also removed from basic standard.

No channels have been added in their place. Yet the price of the basic standard package always goes up, not down.

Time Warner is trying to screw the SA customer once again and squeezing out as much money from the SA customer.

Fortunately, there are alternatives this year with Grande, Dish Network, Direct TV, and the new (highly recommeded) AT&T U-Verse. Make the switch and get more for less $$.

Bottom line, Time Warner wants customers to pay $5-$15 for the NFL Network as part of the sports tier package to cover the $.65 cost that the NFL Network charges Time Warner.

BTW, if you have basic standard, you get the Golf Channel. I could see that useless channel in all my rooms at home, with or without a box. Why was I paying for that channel and not able to keep ESPN Classic?! Time Warner is full of shit!

[GINNNNNNNNNNNNOBILI]

First, I don't support the NFL in any way after the way they treated San Antonio after hosting the Saints in the wake of Katrina. I am rabid Cowboys fan tho. I only watch their games these days.

But those that support Time Warner are just ignorant of Time Warner's history. How soon people forget that Time Warner didn't carry Fox HD at first, and the San Antonio area did not get to see one of the recent Super Bowls in HD b/c of Time Warner. Also, this past summer, two channels were removed from basic standard cable (ESPN Classic channel 23 and GTV channel 78) and were placed on digital packages. Both of those channels REMAIN BLACK TODAY but the cost of basic standard did not go down one bit. The Outdoor network was also removed from basic standard.

No channels have been added in their place. Yet the price of the basic standard package always goes up, not down.

Time Warner is trying to screw the SA customer once again and squeezing out as much money from the SA customer.

Fortunately, there are alternatives this year with Grande, Dish Network, Direct TV, and the new (highly recommeded) AT&T U-Verse. Make the switch and get more for less $$.

Bottom line, Time Warner wants customers to pay $5-$15 for the NFL Network as part of the sports tier package to cover the $.65 cost that the NFL Network charges Time Warner.

BTW, if you have basic standard, you get the Golf Channel. I could see that useless channel in all my rooms at home, with or without a box. Why was I paying for that channel and not able to keep ESPN Classic?! Time Warner is full of shit!

Good post... Now, on top of that... They add NHLHD to their lineup?!?!?!?!?

[pooh]

First, I don't support the NFL in any way after the way they treated San Antonio after hosting the Saints in the wake of Katrina. I am rabid Cowboys fan tho. I only watch their games these days.

But those that support Time Warner are just ignorant of Time Warner's history. How soon people forget that Time Warner didn't carry Fox HD at first, and the San Antonio area did not get to see one of the recent Super Bowls in HD b/c of Time Warner. Also, this past summer, two channels were removed from basic standard cable (ESPN Classic channel 23 and GTV channel 78) and were placed on digital packages. Both of those channels REMAIN BLACK TODAY but the cost of basic standard did not go down one bit. The Outdoor network was also removed from basic standard.

No channels have been added in their place. Yet the price of the basic standard package always goes up, not down.

Time Warner is trying to screw the SA customer once again and squeezing out as much money from the SA customer.

Fortunately, there are alternatives this year with Grande, Dish Network, Direct TV, and the new (highly recommeded) AT&T U-Verse. Make the switch and get more for less $$.

Bottom line, Time Warner wants customers to pay $5-$15 for the NFL Network as part of the sports tier package to cover the $.65 cost that the NFL Network charges Time Warner.

BTW, if you have basic standard, you get the Golf Channel. I could see that useless channel in all my rooms at home, with or without a box. Why was I paying for that channel and not able to keep ESPN Classic?! Time Warner is full of shit!

Exactly! I couldn't have said it any better. I'm sick of all the local sportscasters here all whinning about how TWC should do this and that people should file petitions, etc. LOOK, fact is fact. TWC wants the NFL Network, and as Longhorn said, they want to put it on their 'tier Sports Package and make you pay more (as it the over inflated price isn't enough) each month.

All you have to do is just spring for the Directv, get the basic package and you're in. You can still get the (over-rated and over hyped) NBAtv their Sports Package for an extra $10/month. But the NFL Network comes with the standard pack which is ONLY $29.99/month.

I mean c'mon people, do you want to stay with TWC cause Manu "Goes for three"? And you paid for your bobblehead and picked up their for crap phone service that isn't anything near AT&T? For those who have TWC and won't get to see the game on Thursday...tough luck, find a friend, and get a dish for Christmas.

[exstatic]

you're way off in outerspace somewhere. The battle is not between free TV or Cable. THAT BATTLE HAS BEEN LOST!!!! If that's what you're fighting, you're in the wrong thread. Maybe at the same time you should fight to keep the analog TV the standard.

FOX - NFC games - available over airwaves
CBS - AFC games - available over airwaves
NBC - SNF - available over airwaves
ESPN - MNF - cable/sat only

As you can see, the VAST majority of games are still available for free over the airwaves. Only MNF, one game per week, is strictly available on cable/sat. This is almost directly opposite the NBA, where almost everything national is on TNT or ESPN, with the occasional bone thrown to ABC.

[fyatuk]

Not that the debate has anything to do with me (I have Grande, and its on my basic digital package), but I actually side with TW here.

If the NFL wants it on everyone's basic package, they should cut the per subscriber price by at least 1/3rd (for now, they can raise it later). Otherwise, they should let it be put on a sports tier. The only thing I've found worth watching is the NFL games (and NFL replay if I missed a game I wanted to see), and I've had the non-game programming for quite a while now.

TW actually has a point in not charging people who have no interest in it for that service. Of course, their point would be more apparent if their setup was more ala carte. TW is not going to and shouldn't have to eat that cost. It's just a matter of should everyone pay an extra $1 or just the people who actually want it. TW is already basically the most expensive service in SA...

[Extra Stout]

A few years back, Comcast offered the NFL $400 million a year for a package of Thursday night games on Comcast Sports Net. Jerry Jones led a brigade of owners who claimed the NFL could do better by offering games on its own network. So far the NFL Network package produces revenue of $250 million a year.

If the NFL lowered its per-subscriber price, this problem would disappear. NFL Network is not a full-sports network like ESPN. It is a seasonal network, and its only live games are the handful of NFL games it shows, and a couple of college games. Its $0.65/subscriber charge pales to ESPN's $3, but contrast it with CNN's $0.30.

However, if the NFL actually negotiated a price with TW rather than holding a hard line, Jerry Jones might have to admit he was wrong. And he will let the NFL lose millions, piss off hundreds of thousands of fans, even damage the NFL's media equity, before he admits that his dick isn't as long as he claims it is.

[S_A_Longhorn]

FOX - NFC games - available over airwaves
CBS - AFC games - available over airwaves
NBC - SNF - available over airwaves
ESPN - MNF - cable/sat only

As you can see, the VAST majority of games are still available for free over the airwaves. Only MNF, one game per week, is strictly available on cable/sat. This is almost directly opposite the NBA, where almost everything national is on TNT or ESPN, with the occasional bone thrown to ABC.


Free TV will continue to exists as long as CBS, NBC, and ABC pay the outrageous prices for NFL programming. Monday Night Football was a ratings loser for ABC for several years, so that was moved over to ESPN, who is owned by ABC. Remember that Sunday Night Football used to be on TNT or ESPN for a long time. Now that game (the best game of the week) is now free on NBC, while MNF has moved.

Nothing has changed in the last ten years or so, except for the NFL Network. Fox, CBS, and NBC won't turn their back on the NFL, and their TV broadcast rights won't allow the NFL to broadcast too many games on the NFL Network. Notice all the games the NFL Network broadcasts are the non-traditional Sunday games, on nights (like big ratings Thursday) that the networks have higher rating programs airing.

[2centsworth]

FOX - NFC games - available over airwaves
CBS - AFC games - available over airwaves
NBC - SNF - available over airwaves
ESPN - MNF - cable/sat only

As you can see, the VAST majority of games are still available for free over the airwaves. Only MNF, one game per week, is strictly available on cable/sat. This is almost directly opposite the NBA, where almost everything national is on TNT or ESPN, with the occasional bone thrown to ABC.
yes available over the airwaves, but how do you access those channels? right, just like the majority of others. Basic cable is the standard.

[2centsworth]

A few years back, Comcast offered the NFL $400 million a year for a package of Thursday night games on Comcast Sports Net. Jerry Jones led a brigade of owners who claimed the NFL could do better by offering games on its own network. So far the NFL Network package produces revenue of $250 million a year.

If the NFL lowered its per-subscriber price, this problem would disappear. NFL Network is not a full-sports network like ESPN. It is a seasonal network, and its only live games are the handful of NFL games it shows, and a couple of college games. Its $0.65/subscriber charge pales to ESPN's $3, but contrast it with CNN's $0.30.

However, if the NFL actually negotiated a price with TW rather than holding a hard line, Jerry Jones might have to admit he was wrong. And he will let the NFL lose millions, piss off hundreds of thousands of fans, even damage the NFL's media equity, before he admits that his dick isn't as long as he claims it is.
Yes, the NFL could be wrong in this situation. It shouldn't matter for the consumer. WE should DEMAND the Network be available at no additional cost. Otherwise, switch! If you side with a company to raise your cost, and then you guys get what you deserve.

I'll be in the comfort of my own home chillin and watching the game.

[Extra Stout]

Yes, the NFL could be wrong in this situation. It shouldn't matter for the consumer. WE should DEMAND the Network be available at no additional cost. Otherwise, switch! If you side with a company to rise your cost, and then you guys get what you deserve.

I'll be in the comfort of my own home chillin and watching the game.
I have DIRECTV, so it's no skin off my back.

However, prior to the creation of NFL Network, the Cowboys-Packers game would have been available throughout Texas, Oklahoma, and Wisconsin over the air. It is the NFL that took this game off the air, not TW or Comcast. The games are the NFL's products, not those of TW or Comcast.

The NFL is trying to create a multibillion-dollar asset in NFLN by leveraging the popularity of its broadcasts. The big cable providers, who run their own sports networks, want to use their leverage in controlling availability in order to acquire a piece of that pie.

We'll see who wins.

[Extra Stout]

Oh, my number for what ESPN charges is wrong. It should be $0.70, not $3. $3 may be what they would charge for all the ESPN channels combined.

So, $0.70 for a network that carries MNF, NBA games, MLB games, major college football and basketball, and SportsCenter, versus $0.65 for a network that televises eight NFL games a year, and what, NFL Total Access? Seriously?

[2centsworth]

Oh, my number for what ESPN charges is wrong. It should be $0.70, not $3. $3 may be what they would charge for all the ESPN channels combined.

So, $0.70 for a network that carries MNF, NBA games, MLB games, major college football and basketball, and SportsCenter, versus $0.65 for a network that televises eight NFL games a year, and what, NFL Total Access? Seriously?
I heard $3, but if it's .70 then the NFL wants too much. Again, not our problem.
It's the TW saps who somehow want to involve themselves way too much in this fight. Just switch. Who cares what TW has to pay, as long as it's not the consumer. If they can't survive in that type of competitive market, and then tough others will.

[maxpower]

I have to side with the NFL...begrudgingly(well I have dish)....but the fact of the matter is, TW will look for any reason to raise their revenue at the customer's expense. They claim they would have to raise prices to include the NFLN outside the sports tier. However do they lower their prices when they remove channels? Why do they have second rate sports channels outside of the sports tier but want to use the number one American sport to raise subscription to it's sports tier? In the Sports Channel Mall NFLN would be an anchor store along with ESPN and Fox Sports.

[Extra Stout]

I have to side with the NFL...begrudgingly(well I have dish)....but the fact of the matter is, TW will look for any reason to raise their revenue at the customer's expense. They claim they would have to raise prices to include the NFLN outside the sports tier. However do they lower their prices when they remove channels? Why do they have second rate sports channels outside of the sports tier but want to use the number one American sport to raise subscription to it's sports tier? In the Sports Channel Mall NFLN would be an anchor store along with ESPN and Fox Sports.
Re: the bolded

And how is that not also what the NFL is doing?

Bottom line: rich people are fighting over who gets to rake in your cash, and you're being held hostage over it. The NFL are the drug lords who got you hooked on their drug, they know you'll go crazy and froth at the mouth if you don't get your fix, and now they're squeezing the dealers on the street on price, while the dealers are trying to squeeze the drug lords because they want to be the lords.

[Extra Stout]

This same "controversy" is going on with the Big Ten Network, only instead of asking $0.65, they want $1.10 per subscriber, and their program slate has a lot of volleyball and field hockey, and rather than being a for-profit entertainment enterprise, it is the property of a amateur collegiate sports league, several of whose members are taxpayer-supported.

Normally, I would just laugh, since who gives a flip about Penn State volleyball in Pennsylvania, much less Texas? But I find it disgusting the degree to which government-run institutions like universities are becoming just another tool for the wealthy to screw the middle class and the poor.

That seems a different animal from the NFL Network.

[Walter Craparita]

The internet is a mysterious and powerful device, and its mystery is only exceeded by its power. Case in point, I am a Colts fan living in Texas and have seen all of their games so far this year.... I don't have NFL Sunday Ticket or the NFL Network which means I, theoretically, should have been cock blocked out of at least half of their games so far depending on CBS blackouts. You don't have to go to bars to watch NFL games that are blacked out or on the NFL Network.

hook it up lol :hat

[yavozerb]

Switched over to ATT U-Verse a couple of weeks ago and have been happy with it. I have one of the cheaper packages (59$ cable and 25$ internet) and it comes with NFLnetwork and the big ten channel (which is OK, nothing special).

[Dex]

Little help, someone?

[Clandestino]

all i know is i have uverse and it is cheaper than twc, has more channels, and has nfl network. twc is full of shit. if at&t can provide all the services for less, why can't twc???

[exstatic]

UVerse is only available in limited areas. The infrastructure is expensive for them to install, and they are already bumping up against the bandwidth. New technology is always painful to watch mature, too.

[JustSpurs]

AT&T
can kiss my rosey irish ass. Hooters has drinks and wings specials for the game.

Much cheaper than their $80.00 a month basic phone charge.

[Cloud786]

Is there a way to watch this game on the internet tomorrow?

[Taco's Troll]

Blame the NFL network headed by Jerry Jones!

Yes I just found out That the President of the NFL Network is Jerry Jones :pctoss

[BacktoBasics]

I believe my.p2p.eu can help you watch the game online. I have not tried but I'm going to try tonight.

[Dex]

Avast, any of ye mateys care to PM a link?

[Cloud786]

Can anyone PM me a link too if possible?

[Slydragon]

PM me a link

[cherylsteele]

TW's position (http://nflbadcall.com/)

[Taco's Troll]

all i know is i have uverse and it is cheaper than twc, has more channels, and has nfl network. twc is full of shit. if at&t can provide all the services for less, why can't twc???

My daughter has UVerse we saw the game at her house

i have to say the recepiton is a lot better than TWC

[BacktoBasics]

So I downloaded some of the software from my.p2p.eu to see the game last. Quality was shitty and the buffering sucked but at least I got to see the game.

[Extra Stout]

Could you imagine if Bryant Gumbel's incoherent stammerings were broadcast to 112 million homes?

[BacktoBasics]

TW refused arbitration but are currently in last minute negotiations. I'm not holding my breath. If TW wants resolution so bad then why not use a third party, if they would have, the game could have been broadcast for free in the interm. Further proof the TW is the one holding things up here.

[exstatic]

TW refused arbitration but are currently in last minute negotiations. I'm not holding my breath. If TW wants resolution so bad then why not use a third party, if they would have, the game could have been broadcast for free in the interm. Further proof the TW is the one holding things up here.
There is no innocent party here, just billionaires squabbling over your money and mine. Jones and the NFL are just as stupid, trying to dictate TW's business practices and cable tiers.

[Mr Dio]

:dizzy I wonder if there is enough common sense here to realize that ALL NFL games were, ONCE, free..............

Thank You NFL (Network) for showing enough greed to blind those without common sense. The NFL thought it could hold anyone & everyone they wanted hostage & make even more money than the HUGE sums regular networks were already paying them. The NFL was partially right & now has people thinking in their heart of hearts that a cable/media/taco/brat/beer company started this whole mess. :lol

I will prob be watching at a bar because the home I WAS going to watch it at has yet another ATT U-Verse Repair Call pending & aren't being given a guarantee that they'd show up & have issue recitfied in time for the 715pm game!

[cherylsteele]

Some of you people need to read the link I provided.
Here it is again:
Time Warner's position (http://nflbadcall.com/)
The NFL was offered a channel on PPV to show games on that are on the NFL network at a retail price set by the NFL, at a total profit for the NFL but the NFL refused. The NFL would set the price at whatever they felt like, and get ALL THE REVENUE generated from this. The NFL said no, it is basic cable or nothing. TW is the one making several offers but it is the NFL being stubborn about this.

I also find it ironic that the only time people are complaining about this impasse is when the Cowboys are playing. The complaining doesn't happen too much when other teams are on. People are rather quiet at other times, in essence people are not concerned about the network is a broadcast entity, they only concern themselves with the Cowboys. What happened to alot of you people when the other games were showing?

[BeerIsGood!]

The game is being shown locally in Dallas on KDFI, correct? For some reason it's listed as "Cowboys Pregame" but lasts from 7 to 10:30.

[BacktoBasics]

There is no innocent party here, just billionaires squabbling over your money and mine. Jones and the NFL are just as stupid, trying to dictate TW's business practices and cable tiers.All the NFL network has ever asked for is to be paid within the same parameters as other "like" channels. TW has refused to do that. The NFL networks asking price is right in line with everyone else's. TW wants to make this a ppv or tier so they can raise their sports tier asking price. The NFL network wants the channel to be available on regular cable which would allow them to advertise accordingly. I think the asking price is right in line the request is reasonable. We'd pay to see the game of course we'd also pay the 15 bucks for the tier but I can appreciate the NFL network wanting to do it as part of regular cable. Not only would it be free like every other football game but it would open up opportunities for the channel to grow into something we'd actually like vs. being pigionholed advertising wise by being a pay or tier channel.

I'm 100% with the NFL network on this. They even offered 3rd party arbitration for resolution. How more reasonable can it get. They basically said fine TW if you think you're right and its us not you then let a 3rd party hear your plight and rule accordingly. TW refused because TW is greedy and they know that the Networks request are more than reasonable and the arbitrator would rule in favor of the network not TW. I don't see how you can call a reasonable asking price and the ability to make the channel available to everyone "greedy". I felt that way at first but I believe the NFL network has done everything within reason to make this happen, the hold up is TW plain and simple.

I don't care if paying ppv prices for a game is an option. If that happens it will create a landslide shitstorm and set a precedent we really don't want.

[cherylsteele]

All the NFL network has ever asked for is to be paid within the same parameters as other "like" channels.
You mean other channels like NBA TV, Bevo, etc., that are already on the sports tier? I have also heard the when MLB start their channel they have already agreed to place that on the sports tier.

I see nobody has mentioned that Jerry Jones is personally advertising for Dish Network. I say conflict of interest here. I have a feeling he has some monetary interest in that provider, why else would he advertise for them and not Direct TV, Comcast, etc?

[cherylsteele]

yes available over the airwaves, but how do you access those channels? right, just like the majority of others. Basic cable is the standard.
You don't need cable for free over the airwaves, just a TV, and a decent pair of rabbit ears.

[BacktoBasics]

You mean other channels like NBA TV, Bevo, etc., that are already on the sports tier? I have also heard the when MLB start their channel they have already agreed to place that on the sports tier.

I see nobody has mentioned the Jerry Jones is personally advertising for Dish Network. I say conflict of interest here. I have a feeling he has some monetary interest in that provider, why else would he advertise for them and not Direct TV, Comcast, etc?
No actually, I think with the huge market of football I have no problems comparing their asking price with likes of other channels on regular cable, such as specialty channels or news channels. They are considerably less than ESPN and some of the more lucrative stations but are right in line with mid to low level channels.

See how little of a growth we see from the NBA channel. They can't get advertising for shit on their station, they can't get shit for worthwhile content. The programming is bland and the growth is stunted because of it. The NFL network within 10 years could easily be as large as The Food Network, there is no sense in fucking themselves from the beginning as well as fucking their client base by making it into some type of pay to see channel. Why can't TW treat them just like any other channel? Answer- because there isn't anything left to turn to that would put as much value into their sports tier, which would make them an absolute killing. They are holding the channel hostage because of its value, value that only TW will see if its in the tier.

This channel wasn't created to be a tier or semi viewed station. Its built with the intent to become a huge channel with tons of content and great programming aimed at a sport that has basically become a year round marketing cow. With the right advertising this channel could be huge and has the potential to be one of the most view channels around.

[leemajors]

the NFL network is worthless outside of football season, and only has worth since they put cowboy games on there. the NFL wants to charge more than ESPN for a very limited service.

[BacktoBasics]

the NFL network is worthless outside of football season, and only has worth since they put cowboy games on there. the NFL wants to charge more than ESPN for a very limited service.The charge is nearly three times less than ESPN. I don't know where you get your figures but its not anywhere near the cost of ESPN. Its worthless because they can't bring in the kind of advertising that would grow the channel into something as successful as an ESPN or like station. If TW and Comcast put this channel on regular cable the advertising would grow leaps and bounds and the programming and content would be 10 times what it is right now. The channel could be huge if they are available to the masses at no extra charge. Advertising would increase tenfold with that many customers available to click on the channel.

It takes advertising to drive a channel like this. The last thing the NFL network wants to have is games at a cost with little to no revenue to support the growth of the channel. They actually want the games to be secondary to the programming but you can't get there on a tier or on a ppv basis, no one advertising on channels like that. NFL network has what 5 maybe 6 of the same commercials over and over....because they don't have the audience to command the big bucks in advertising which in turn limits monies that could be spent on growing the channel and creating solid programming.

Its quite simple. TW doesn't care if it grows because the existing audience that will pay for the shit content only to see the games which would make them millions upon millions at our expense, leaving us with a shit channel with no future but making them a ton.

[cherylsteele]

The charge is nearly three times less than ESPN. I don't know where you get your figures but its not anywhere near the cost of ESPN.
ESPN has more then just football, it shows all types of sports. NFL network is football, just football, hence the higher price of ESPN, like it or not. On top of that they have 2 CHANNELS on the basic package, which both show live sporting events year 'round.

The NFL network within 10 years could easily be as large as The Food Network
I remember the same thing was said about NBA TV too. If by chance NFL Network becomes that big as you claim it will be then it would be worth putting on basic.

NFL network has what 5 maybe 6 of the same commercials over and over....because they don't have the audience to command the big bucks in advertising which in turn limits monies that could be spent on growing the channel and creating solid programming.
Or maybe it is because the NFL Network product is so piss poor that it can't draw more diverse advertising?

[Mr Dio]

You don't need cable for free over the airwaves, just a TV, and a decent pair of rabbit ears.


Whatever happened to those free games?
Where did all this start?
Who caused them to have to be paid for?
Oh yeah, definitely not the NFL's greed. They are innocent above all & had no part & definitely not the biggest part in making a free game have to be paid for.

[BacktoBasics]

ESPN has more then just football, it shows all types of sports. NFL network is football, just football, hence the higher price of ESPN, like it or not. On top of that they have 2 CHANNELS on the basic package, which both show live sporting events year 'round.
I agree

I remember the same thing was said about NBA TV too. If by chance NFL Network becomes that big as you claim it will be then it would be worth putting on basic.
No you apparantly have no idea how marketing works, your statement makes no sense. The network has a huge audience that is easily reached by the masses = heavy highend advertising. No company does advertising based on the potential of the channel they do it based on who they can reach right then and there. Without the advertising you don't have enough revenue to create better programming. The advertising comes first based on market size then the better content comes as a result of that. The Food Network is a perfect example, larger market....better advertising.....better programming.


If NBA TV were on basic cable you'd have better programming. They did exactly what the NFL network is trying to avoid and thats pigeonholing themselves into a place that isn't indicative of growth. The NFL is also far more marketable than the NBA.

Or maybe it is because the NFL Network product is so piss poor that it can't draw more diverse advertising?


No...typically the content isn't the first thing considered, market size is and available audience is. Of which they have next to none....which makes it impossible to demand higher prices for advertising, let alone even drawn a company in to pay for commercials. Widen your audience and make your channel available to more people , this will easily create the demand for time and space on your channel. That will in turn bring money that can be used to create more shows and better content.


Coke could see an audience size of 1 million people and pay a price condusive of what that size of audience is worth to them. If the available number of homes is 10 million Coke pays more for the advertising. How does that not make sense to you? Its about people and how a company can reach those people and how many.

[BacktoBasics]

Whatever happened to those free games?
Where did all this start?
Who caused them to have to be paid for?
Oh yeah, definitely not the NFL's greed. They are innocent above all & had no part & definitely not the biggest part in making a free game have to be paid for.You can still see most games with rabbit ears but lets face it, free air wave TV is a thing of the past, the technology is far beyond that. Lots of things change over time. That had nothing to do with the NFL. Cable and then digital and so forth. The NFL didn't create either of those.

[BacktoBasics]

Above and beyond all of this. The very moment The NFL Network offered to let the dispute go to 3rd party arbitration they proved once and for all that it is in fact TW thats holding this up, it shifted the blame 100% off of the NFL. The very moment they offered arbitration it was obvious that the move was the ultimate trump card for the NFL network because they were willing to let someone other than themselves decided what is fair and what isn't. They know their demands are consistant with the going rates and the demands were reasonable.

You simply can't call someone greedy when they're willing to let a 3rd party sort it out. You can't call someone greedy when they take all leverage away from themselves to once and for all have resolution here. They were willing to strip themselves of power to end the dispute. Great move and now the blame solely rests on TW.

If the NFL was so wrong and so much to blame for keeping the channel off the airwaves and if the demand in price was so out of line TW would have taken the arbitration and been done with it. The didn't because TW's knows they'd be fucked.

Not to mention that the channel would be free to all of us during the arbitration process. Further proof that the whole "TW wants you to see the games and TW wants whats fair for our customers" is total garbage. They refused to seek resolution because they know it would work in their favor.

[mikejones99]

the NBA channel is far better than the nfl channel and has more games. get cabe and pay for it you cheap bastard cowboy fucks.

[DaHorns]

It sucks because we won't be able to see the match up between NYG & NE. I guess I will have to go to Plucker's to see the game. Time Warner & The NFL Network blow!!!