Sonics bound for OKC from the get-go

[Findog]

http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-27-49/Steamed-in-Seattle.html


Remember when Clay Bennett and all those rich men from Oklahoma City bought the Seattle SuperSonics? And everyone involved said no, no, no, good people of Seattle, you don't understand, these people aren't trying to take your team! Don't be silly!

Bennett made meaningful noises about being committed to Seattle. Here I'll quote him from a freakishly prescient 2006 Ted Miller column in the Seattle Post-Intelligencer:

"The No. 1 objective, our primary and sincere efforts, will be driven towards being successful here."
"It is not our intention to move or relocate the team. ... I personally would be surprised if it were not successful. ... We fully intend to fulfill our obligation to KeyArena. ... (His pursuit of a team in Oklahoma City) is unrelated to this transaction."

You know how some people have no optimism? They are bitter, untrusting, and closed-minded? Stuff like this is what makes them so.

Because as I believe was first pointed out on SonicsCentral, Clay Bennett's friend and Sonic co-owner, Aubrey McClendon has been talking. Here he is from a Jerry Shottenkirk article in Oklahoma's Journal Record:

"We started to look around, and at that time the Sonics were going through some ownership challenges in Seattle," McClendon said. "So Clay, very artfully and skillfully, put himself in the middle of those discussions and to the great amazement and surprise to everyone in Seattle, some rednecks from Oklahoma, which we've been called, made off with the team. At any rate I'm pleased to be part of the ownership group and Clay has done a terrific job of managing the process."

McClendon said the team would probably make more money if it stayed in Seattle.

"But we didn't buy the team to keep it in Seattle; we hoped to come here," he said. "We know it's a little more difficult financially here in Oklahoma City, but we think it's great for the community and if we could break even we'd be thrilled."

Let's repeat: "We didn't buy the team to keep it in Seattle."

Wow! (Memo, once again, to the people of Oklahoma: There is no longer any such thing as local media.)

The people from SonicsCentral are steamed at the former owners, led by Starbucks Chairman Howard Schultz -- locals who made a lot of money on the deal, while selling the team out from under the fan's noses.

As much as I get that, I'm not sure what that does for Sonic fans. What can Schultz do for you now? Offer his limp and late support for a grassroots effort?

Wouldn't you rather use this apparent smoking gun (brace yourself for some spin and backtracking) to get other NBA owners and the commissioner on your side?


What I think this does is give all kinds of leverage to anyone in Seattle trying to appeal to the powers that be -- like the judge who will inevitably be deciding whether or not the Sonics and Storm can get out of their lease at Key Arena, which runs into 2010, and the NBA's commissioner and relocation committee.

To all of those people the fans of the Sonics can now say: We have not had a good faith effort to keep the team in Seattle.

To politicians in Seattle trying to get a deal done for a new stadium, they can now, I would imagine, be a little less scared of that much bally-hooed October 2007 deadline. If the ownership hasn't really been negotiating all this time, whose fault is it if a deal isn't done?

And doesn't the NBA have an obligation to the other 29 owners, and the health of the league, to encourage the team to play where it will be most profitable? Here's one example of why: remember that through the luxury tax, the NBA has a version revenue sharing. Teams that spend a lot of money write large checks every year to teams that spend less. If you're an owner, or indeed the league, wouldn't you rather have the Sonics where they will make the most money, and perhaps send you some?

I read that whole Aubrey McClendon article. He sounds like a nice guy. As far as I'm concerned he could be a fine NBA owner. Quite frankly, I applaud his candor. I'm always a fan of people who tell the truth.

I just don't think he should get this one, at this time, in Oklahoma City. Not this way. Because if Clay Bennett, Aubrey McClendon and company end up with the Sonics in Oklahoma City, it sends a devestating message to sports fans. It says that the team you love could be ripped away from you and the people selling the team, the people buying the team, and the league will all pretend to you that it is not even happening. They cheer alongside you, even as they usurp your ability to recognize the issue at hand and fight for your team.

These kinds of hush-hush decisions by the priveleged few ignore the reality of the sports industry: that without passionate fans, there is no industry at all. Mess with that passion at your peril.

[duncan228]

Thanks for posting this Findog.

I lived outside Seattle for years and spent lots of time at Sonic's games and my son went to their summer camp every year. I liked what Schultz tried to bring to the fans. He lowered ticket prices to make games more family friendly, I think he put in a "no beer" section as well for families. He made players available for a while before games and you could get close and get autographs. I thought the changes he made really made a difference in our experiences at the games.

I'd be pissed if I was still there and the team was going to move. I understand it's a business but Seattle fans really were into this team. It will be too bad if the arena/city stuff can't be resolved to keep them there.

[Findog]

Thanks for posting this Findog.

I lived outside Seattle for years and spent lots of time at Sonic's games and my son went to their summer camp every year. I liked what Schultz tried to bring to the fans. He lowered ticket prices to make games more family friendly, I think he put in a "no beer" section as well for families. He made players available for a while before games and you could get close and get autographs. I thought the changes he made really made a difference in our experiences at the games.

I'd be pissed if I was still there and the team was going to move. I understand it's a business but Seattle fans really were into this team. It will be too bad if the arena/city stuff can't be resolved to keep them there.

Guess there's two sides to a coin, then. He also made a point of selling the team to out-of-towners bent on taking it elsewhere when he couldn't get his way on a new arena deal. The Seattle fans don't deserve to have their team taken away, but ultimately it's not Bennett that is the villian, but Schultz.

[duncan228]

Guess there's two sides to a coin, then. He also made a point of selling the team to out-of-towners bent on taking it elsewhere when he couldn't get his way on a new arena deal. The Seattle fans don't deserve to have their team taken away, but ultimately it's not Bennett that is the villian, but Schultz.

I wasn't trying to defend Schultz in any way.

The changes he made impacted the way we, as fans, got to enjoy the games.
That was the good of it. Obviously the bad speaks for itself. He's used to getting his way and he's made a ton of money doing it. It's too bad he couldn't work it out instead of selling to a group he knew would move the team.

I've lived close enough to a few NBA teams, (Lakers, Celtics, Golden State, Sonics), to appreciate what he did for the fans. The Sonics had a "family" feel to them.

It's too bad he screwed the fans in the end.

[Findog]

I wasn't trying to defend Schultz in any way.

The changes he made impacted the way we, as fans, got to enjoy the games.
That was the good of it. Obviously the bad speaks for itself. He's used to getting his way and he's made a ton of money doing it. It's too bad he couldn't work it out instead of selling to a group he knew would move the team.

I've lived close enough to a few NBA teams, (Lakers, Celtics, Golden State, Sonics), to appreciate what he did for the fans. The Sonics had a "family" feel to them.

It's too bad he screwed the fans in the end.

That kind of makes it worse considering the in-game experience he instituted?

[MajorMike]

That article is just plain working the crowd. 1st of all, McClendon doesn't ca;; the shots, Bennett does.

2nd of all, McClendon certainly did not make a billion on oil by 'breaking even.'

Lastly, he is obviously trying to force the Seattle sentiment into a last minite ratification of a new stadium by making statements like, "and if they make them in a way that satisfies Clay, then the team will stay there. If they don't meet the requirements he's laid out, the team will move, and Clay has indicated they'll come to Oklahoma City."

McClendon is a nobody in terms of who gets say so, he has invested his money in Bennett. He thinks his money has a better shot in Seattle, therefore, like excentric billionaires like to do, he opened his yap to try and do what he thinks is helping.

In other words, much ado about nothing here.

[Findog]

In other words, much ado about nothing here.

Yep, nothing new. Schultz is a shitbag for selling out Seattle, and Bennett is a shitbag for stealing the team from the Pacific Northwest and moving it to Oklahoma. All you need to know about Oklahoma is that it's one of the most sparsely populated states in the Union, yet just south of the Red River 30 million people are content to call Texas home.

The Oklahoma City Tornadoes are going to suck ass -- they'll be the Clippers of flyover country. Bennett will be able to milk the town's thirst for pro sports, but they won't be able to attract or resign free agents.

[dallaskd]

I was really hoping for a Vegas team.

[StylisticS]

Seattle to Oklahoma City???? OUCH. I feel for ya Kevin.

[Findog]

Seattle to Oklahoma City???? OUCH. I feel for ya Kevin.

He's out of there after his rookie contract. Where would you rather play, LA, Miami, Chicago, New York or Oklahoma City?

Clay Bennett is not like the Maloof Brothers. The Oklahoma City Tornadoes will resemble the pre-Maloof Kings in their ability to attract and retain top talent.

[exstatic]

Seattle fans have had multiple opportunities to keep their team. They are called vote intitiatives, and every one has failed so far. When David Stern gets involved, then later drops out because he says the Sonics have the worst arena situtation in the league...well, they have the worst arena situation in the league. The plain fact is, if you won't vote for the new arena with the cupcake lease, you're team will leave.

[TDMVPDPOY]

who do you guys prefer to play in okla? NOH or SS?

[Findog]

who do you guys prefer to play in okla? NOH or SS?

They won't take the Sonic name and colors with them. What will the new team be called? Tornadoes? Oklahomos? Bombers? (Too soon?)

[Findog]

Seattle fans have had multiple opportunities to keep their team. They are called vote intitiatives, and every one has failed so far. When David Stern gets involved, then later drops out because he says the Sonics have the worst arena situtation in the league...well, they have the worst arena situation in the league. The plain fact is, if you won't vote for the new arena with the cupcake lease, you're team will leave.

Doesn't matter what public subsidies the King County taxpayers will or won't approve, since Bennett bought the team for the purpose of moving them to Oklahoma. They could offer him the moon and he'd still turn it down to bring pro basketball home.

[TDMVPDPOY]

Doesn't matter what public subsidies the King County taxpayers will or won't approve, since Bennett bought the team for the purpose of moving them to Oklahoma. They could offer him the moon and he'd still turn it down to bring pro basketball home.

yeh that man

you see many large corporations re-allocate and they never get bad publicity like sports team, and why sports teams arent allowed to re-allocate? nba commissioner cant tell you want you can or cant do = fuck him.

some of the nba powerhouse teams/rich owners can just pull out of the nba and setup there own leagues if they wanted to, just like what the G9 european football teams were going to do when they were fed up with the local/international governing bodies.....

[MajorMike]

Seattle fans have had multiple opportunities to keep their team. They are called vote intitiatives, and every one has failed so far. When David Stern gets involved, then later drops out because he says the Sonics have the worst arena situtation in the league...well, they have the worst arena situation in the league. The plain fact is, if you won't vote for the new arena with the cupcake lease, you're team will leave.

Doesn't matter what public subsidies the King County taxpayers will or won't approve, since Bennett bought the team for the purpose of moving them to Oklahoma. They could offer him the moon and he'd still turn it down to bring pro basketball home.

That arguement is getting stale. The voters keep saying no. Period. It matters not who you think did who wrong or your poor attitude towards the whole thing. The fact remains that even before Bennett was woner, the voters, legislature, mayor, and most elected officials continually opposed a new stadium. Once again, the people have no one to blame but themselves.


Yep, nothing new. Schultz is a shitbag for selling out Seattle, and Bennett is a shitbag for stealing the team from the Pacific Northwest and moving it to Oklahoma.

Yeah. All owners that take a beloved team that is still decently successful with a very dedicated fan base and move it just for the sake of moving it should be skinned (Norm Green (http://www.northstarshockey.com/links5.htm)).

[Findog]

That arguement is getting stale. The voters keep saying no. Period. It matters not who you think did who wrong or your poor attitude towards the whole thing. The fact remains that even before Bennett was woner, the voters, legislature, mayor, and most elected officials continually opposed a new stadium. Once again, the people have no one to blame but themselves.

Who is to say something couldn't be worked out if Bennett made a good-faith effort to keep the team in Seattle? That was a legally-binding condition of the sale. If I'm the Seattle municipal government, I explore every available avenue to hold them to the Key Arena lease until 2010.




Yeah. All owners that take a beloved team that is still decently successful with a very dedicated fan base and move it just for the sake of moving it should be skinned

Hockey sucks. The Dallas Stars do nothing for me. It belongs in Minnesota more than it does Dallas. The only decent thing left is for David Stern to let them go to OKC but the name and colors stay in Seattle, and for the Hornets or a new expansion team to go to the Pacific Northwest. You have three markets and two teams, and it's unfathomable to me that the two suckiest markets get the teams. Once the novelty of pro basketball wears off in Incestahoma, it's going to be a money-loser and the team itself will be perenially among the dregs of the League.

[John Kerry]

I'll make sure the Sonics stay in Seattle if it gets me votes!

But I'll let them go to OKC if it gets me more votes!

If I was President none of this would even be a problem.

[MajorMike]

Sounds like someone has an inferiority complex.

Bennett has made every effort. I have posted them numerous times. The Seattle municipal government had taken every opportunity to shoot down all of his, and the former owner's, efforts. Again, your arguement not only has zero factual basis, it is old. If you want to make the arguement that Oklahoma City is a hole, that is feasable. But to continually try and whine and cry about how Bennett is the evil and the people are getting screwed - that is simply factually wrong. Spin it however you want, its simply, factually, and historically Seattle's fault. No one else's.

[Findog]

Bennett has made every effort

Truthiness!


But to continually try and whine and cry about how Bennett is the evil and the people are getting screwed - that is simply factually wrong. Spin it however you want, its simply, factually, and historically Seattle's fault. No one else's

Yeah, I guess we should disregard what the ownership group actually says or what is obvious - they bought the team to move it.

The Seattle municipal government hasn't done anything wrong. Take the Ford Center, the new home of the Oklahoma City Tornadoes. It seats 19,000, has 48 luxury suites and cost a grand total of $90 million dollars to build. I don't know what exactly $90 million in 2002 dollars would equate to today, but I know it sure is hell isn't $500 million, which is how much Clay Bennett asked from the taxpayers of King County to finance a new arena in suburban Renton. If I walk into a local Subway franchisee and note that a turkey sandwich is being sold for $45 and refuse to pay that much for lunch, would it be forthright for that Subway shop to claim that I'm really not hungry after all and have no desire to eat? The Mariners and Seahawks both got new digs with a mixture of public and private funds. The Sonics themselves got a major renovation of Key Arena just 12 years ago with the same. Bennett's strategy is obvious -- ask for way, way too much, and then when the civic leadership in Seattle objects, he'll throw up his hands, say "I tried!" and then move the teams. The fault for the Sonics leaving Seattle lies with Howard Schultz and Clay Bennett and nobody else.

[monosylab1k]

This could work great for Dallas. Durant will hate it in OKC, and just a couple hours drive away is a real city. Maybe get Westphal to drive out on a few "recruiting" trips, and in 3 years we can use all the Finley/Bradley/etc money to go get him.

[TDMVPDPOY]

Truthiness!



Yeah, I guess we should disregard what the ownership group actually says or what is obvious - they bought the team to move it.

The Seattle municipal government hasn't done anything wrong. Take the Ford Center, the new home of the Oklahoma City Tornadoes. It seats 19,000, has 48 luxury suites and cost a grand total of $90 million dollars to build. I don't know what exactly $90 million in 2002 dollars would equate to today, but I know it sure is hell isn't $500 million, which is how much Clay Bennett asked from the taxpayers of King County to finance a new arena in suburban Renton. If I walk into a local Subway franchisee and note that a turkey sandwich is being sold for $45 and refuse to pay that much for lunch, would it be forthright for that Subway shop to claim that I'm really not hungry after all and have no desire to eat? The Mariners and Seahawks both got new digs with a mixture of public and private funds. The Sonics themselves got a major renovation of Key Arena just 12 years ago with the same. Bennett's strategy is obvious -- ask for way, way too much, and then when the civic leadership in Seattle objects, he'll throw up his hands, say "I tried!" and then move the teams. The fault for the Sonics leaving Seattle lies with Howard Schultz and Clay Bennett and nobody else.


to tell you the truth the owners did no wrong here, even if there demands were out of this world, at the end of the day it is the owners investment we are talking here, and the losers are going to be the fans of that supported team. You gotto remember, corporations/businesses are only in it to make profit, they dont give a shit how, when or who they make it from. Whether its bad ethics or trade practices adopted from the owners...there strategy is for there short/long term future investment.

[Findog]

to tell you the truth the owners did no wrong here, even if there demands were out of this world, at the end of the day it is the owners investment we are talking here, and the losers are going to be the fans of that supported team. You gotto remember, corporations/businesses are only in it to make profit, they dont give a shit how, when or who they make it from. Whether its bad ethics or trade practices adopted from the owners...there strategy is for there short/long term future investment.

I'm not talking about realpolitik or contesting that Clay Bennett has the legal right to move to OKC, either after next year if he can get out of the lease, or 2010 at the latest. He clearly does. I'm just making an ethical judgment on his behavior. And as for financial long-term planning, it would be better to keep the team in Seattle. See the comment from a member of the investment group about how they would be lucky to break even in OKC, whereas they could probably make a profit in Seattle.

[sandman]

I know that OKC drew great crowds for the Hornets games, but can we objectively say that once the team is actually theirs for keeps and a few losing seasons come around, and the attendance is not going to drop drastically? We talk about SA being a small market team, yet OKC would be even smaller. Memphis and NOLA are not exactly huge urban areas either.

Another thing to think about is that NBA relocation has been concentrated into a relatively small area: NOLA, Memphis and now OKC. Combine that with the three Texas teams and that is 6 teams in a rather small demographic area.

Yes, I know that the teams in the Northeast are located closer than that to each other, but they are also in much larger urban areas. These 6 teams are going to start competing for the same fan base. I see it here already in Houston with NOLA fans, and I have to assume that OKC was historically a Mavs market before Katrina.

From a purely demographic perspective, a franchise in Kansas City would have been more feasible. OKCers have no trouble travelling to Dallas and Tulsans have no trouble travelling to KC for current sporting events. It would stretch out the drawing audience and allow for a draw from OK, KS, MO and even NE, versus mainly OK and KS.

I went to college in OKC. I met my wife and got married in OKC. I love OKC (but hate the Sooners) and being in Big Oil I may find myself living there again one day. However, I don't see OKC as the prime relocation spot unless we were talking about moving Memphis or NOLA.

Just my $.02

[MajorMike]

You don't think as successful as the Blazers (a CHL team - just about the lowest form of minor league hockey) that OKC wouldn't keep selling the NBA?

For those of you who don't know, OKC has supported hockey in massive quantities. None of the schools in Oklahoma have a major hockey team, yet people support it. They lead the all minor league hockey teams in attendance every year. Attendance went up the last 2 years even with the Hornets in town.

2007 - 8902
2006 - 8609
2005 - 8245
2004 - 8763
2003 - 8988
2002 - 8849
2001 - 9096
2000 - 9413
1999 - 9100
1998 - 9453
1997 - 9750
1996 - 9564
1995 - 10016
1994 - 10438
1993 - 7827

Considering OKC brings in almost as many fans for minor league hockey as some NBA teams will bring for games, I don't see how you could possibly argue OKC couldn't support an NBA team full time.

[sandman]

You don't think as successful as the Blazers (a CHL team - just about the lowest form of minor league hockey) that OKC wouldn't keep selling the NBA?

For those of you who don't know, OKC has supported hockey in massive quantities. None of the schools in Oklahoma have a major hockey team, yet people support it. They lead the all minor league hockey teams in attendance every year. Attendance went up the last 2 years even with the Hornets in town.

2007 - 8902
2006 - 8609
2005 - 8245
2004 - 8763
2003 - 8988
2002 - 8849
2001 - 9096
2000 - 9413
1999 - 9100
1998 - 9453
1997 - 9750
1996 - 9564
1995 - 10016
1994 - 10438
1993 - 7827

Considering OKC brings in almost as many fans for minor league hockey as some NBA teams will bring for games, I don't see how you could possibly argue OKC couldn't support an NBA team full time.

I'm not necessarily agruing that OKC could not support a team full time, just merely expressing concerns that relocation in the NBA have been targeting smaller market towns, some of which have no other major pro team. It is not a given that just because they are the only big show in town that they will sell out like when the Hornets were OKC/NO, especially when they are in the inevitable cyclical downturn in the life of a sports franchise. When the luxury tax is the NBA version of revenue sharing to help create some financial parity, bringing in more small market teams is not the direction in which the league should be looking to move, IMHO.

Again, no offense to OKC. This is not a "OKC is a pissant town that doesn't deserve a team" rant. The only thing I hate about the entire state of OK is the Sooners, and I think we are in agreement over that one. Heck, if SA was not winning championships right now, they would be a no-news small market team being a drain on the league. Now have three of those same small market one-sport town in the same geographic area along with a small market 2-team town in NO, and the fan base has shrunk for the league. Maybe not the people who are going to the games (if their team is putting a good product on the table), but the TV and merchandising markets have definitely shrunk. That impacts the bottom line in this business, and it is a business.

The personal side of me is happy that they are going to OKC, but the business side of me wants them to stay in Seattle. Who knows, maybe it will follow the Sac-town model and be a huge success. Let's hope it's doesn't follow the Charlotte model.

[MajorMike]

I think it would be very hard to compare to any other market. 1st off, it is very much like San Antonio. No major college in town, no other pro sport in town. Considered a small market. The 2 main diffs are OKC (500k) is about half the size of SA, but SA has 2 major metro areas with competing markets within 4 hours drive. OKC doesn't have that competition. Dallas to SA to Houston almost exactly equates to KC to OKC to Dallas, however KC has no basketball. The next closest NBA team to OKC is actually Houston. Memphis is almost 500 miles away. There are no NBA teams to the north until you get to Denver. The same way people in OKC or KC or Omaha become NBA fans of some other geo-unlocated team, who is to say that kids in Tulsa (400K) and Wichita (350K) and Omaha (350k) and Lincoln (250k) and Topeka (200k) and KC (650k) and Albuquerque (500k) couldn't become fans? None of those areas have anyone close to them, either.

To say the OKC area peeps are Mavs fans is pretty incorrect. Most of the OKC residents have never been Mavs fans, they are historically either Rockets or Lakers fans. The franchise has to be good for more than just a few years to grow fans in adjacent areas, and the Mavs simply haven't been. When I grew up, 80-90s, most kids were big Lakers fans and then some became Rockets fans when they were going to the Finals in that period. I myself was a big Larry Legend fan. The Mavs never farted above a whisper until just recently.