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View Full Version : What do you think is the hardest part of marriage?



1Parker1
08-14-2007, 08:48 PM
For those of you who have been married or are married?


:angel

Trainwreck2100
08-14-2007, 08:50 PM
For those of you who have been married or are married?


:angel


Well I'm going for a shot in the dark, but for those that have BEEN married, the hardest part was probably what led to the divorce

T Park
08-14-2007, 08:51 PM
(rimshot)

1Parker1
08-14-2007, 08:52 PM
Well I'm going for a shot in the dark, but for those that have BEEN married, the hardest part was probably what led to the divorce


:shootme Marrying a smartass may be hard too.



:lol

Bigzax
08-14-2007, 08:59 PM
being the perfect man and putting up with her shit.
i honestly don't know how i do it.

BigBeezie
08-14-2007, 09:00 PM
For those of you who have been married or are married?


:angel

Well, it has to be the fact that it's literally until death do you part.

It's sometimes a hard pill to swallow. Then I realize that statiscally she will outlive me.... :lol

L.I.T
08-14-2007, 09:01 PM
Convincing 1-800 Flowers not to deliver a receipt.

BigBeezie
08-14-2007, 09:17 PM
Convincing 1-800 Flowers not to deliver a receipt.

haha ~ okay, so it's maintaining a mistress on the side? :lol

Clutch20
08-14-2007, 09:34 PM
The hardest part of marriage for me is remembering that we started out as sweethearts, especially during arguments and letdowns.

But over 30 years, the range of mood swings are less severe because there's a lot of history that helps to soothe the hurts.

spurs_fan_in_exile
08-14-2007, 09:35 PM
For me it's the balancing act between sharing practically every aspect of my life with someone and trying to feel like I'm still my own person.

peewee's lovechild
08-14-2007, 09:46 PM
Living with the other person is the hardest part.

RashoFan
08-14-2007, 09:53 PM
Well, it has to be the fact that it's literally until death do you part.

It's sometimes a hard pill to swallow. Then I realize that statiscally she will outlive me.... :lol
Unless of course you marry an older woman.... What is the difference in life spans of men and women? If it is 9 years, then NOW I know why my boyfriend chose me... :dramaquee

marini martini
08-14-2007, 09:56 PM
:married:
The hardest part of marriage for me is remembering that we started out as sweethearts, especially during arguments and letdowns.

But over 30 years, the range of mood swings are less severe because there's a lot of history that helps to soothe the hurts.

you think? That gives me hope :married:

Clutch20
08-14-2007, 10:05 PM
:married:

you think? That gives me hope :married:
Yeah......being married during those permissive years of mid 70's through to the HIV scary years of the early 80's, man, there were a lot of distractions to overcome.
Scary.
The compatibility we had made the difference.
Same socioeconomic backgrounds, education and strong beliefs, there is hope for those that persevere.
I'm a lucky shit.

marini martini
08-14-2007, 10:10 PM
I guess, so am I. Married 28 years 8-23-79 :toast

Lucky shit, I am :downspin:

2Blonde
08-14-2007, 10:17 PM
For me it's the balancing act between sharing practically every aspect of my life with someone and trying to feel like I'm still my own person.
That was tough for me in the beginning but now after almost 10 years it's kind of switched around to being that someone who should know every aspect of my life and personality still sometimes hasn't got the slightest clue as to who I am or what I'm about :lol . It makes for interesting discussions when you're still learning new things about each other that far in to a marriage.

Luckily for us we like the new stuff as much as the old. :toast But getting to the fun part of it can be pretty trying at times.

Another important thing I have to always remember is that I am not part of my husband. We are in each others hearts but we don't control each others movements. That way when he does/says something really embarrassing I can distance myself and laugh along with everyone else instead of feeling like it reflects on me. He's a real character and I never know what he'll do next but he is highly entertaining.

ObiwanGinobili
08-14-2007, 10:23 PM
agreeing to disagree... and MEANING it. thats hard.
respecting the other persons needs, and really truely accepting thier faults.

Twisted_Dawg
08-14-2007, 10:26 PM
"The hardest part is trying not to smile when you kiss your wife goodbye before you go on a roadtrip."

Magic Johnson

Flea
08-14-2007, 11:34 PM
For those of you who have been married or are married?


:angel



Not saying WGAF when you really want to. :lol

SpursWoman
08-15-2007, 08:06 AM
Unless of course you marry an older woman.... What is the difference in life spans of men and women? If it is 9 years, then NOW I know why my boyfriend chose me... :dramaquee

:tu :lol



We haven't run into many that I know of ... at least that don't revolve around my children. Chris' answer could be completely different. :nerd

SpursWoman
08-15-2007, 08:07 AM
"The hardest part is trying not to smile when you kiss your wife goodbye before you go on a roadtrip."

Magic Johnson


That's probably not a quote I would ever, ever use if I were trying to glorify fucking around on my spouse. :lol

Shelly
08-15-2007, 08:59 AM
There are many times I want to say 'fuck it' and leave and there are many times when I can't imagine being without him. He puts up with my shit and I put up with his. But then I remember that he's not a slacker, doesn't try to control what I do, doesn't care if I cook dinner every night, doesn't complain if the house gets messy and I don't feel like cleaning it every 5 minutes. But most importantly, he makes me laugh.

Soul_Patch
08-15-2007, 09:08 AM
every once and a while, i'd like a bit of strange ass....other than that, i think our marriage is rock solid.



:toast

JoeChalupa
08-15-2007, 09:10 AM
Marriage is give and take on both parts. We always make sure we spend some quality time together without the kids. We love them but we need our time alone to just talk and laugh and some good lovin'.
Marriage rocks!!! :clap

boutons_
08-15-2007, 09:17 AM
choosing the right partner

johnsmith
08-15-2007, 09:20 AM
choosing the right partner


Don't worry boutons, that special guy is out there somewhere for you.

CavsSuperFan
08-15-2007, 10:00 AM
When you get a knock at the door Thanks Giving Morning & there is a person serving you divorce papers because your wife of 20 plus years has decided that she needs to “FIND HERSELF”...Because her Father cheated on her mother and he was too busy to take her to the circus when she was nine years old...AND IT IS ALL YOUR FAULT!!! :rolleyes

Bigzax
08-15-2007, 10:05 AM
When you get a knock at the door Thanks Giving Morning & there is a person serving you divorce papers because your wife of 20 plus years has decided that she needs to “FIND HERSELF”...Because her Father cheated on her mother and he was too busy to take her to the circus when she was nine years old...AND IT IS ALL YOUR FAULT!!! :rolleyes



i hate when that happens.

spurs_fan_in_exile
08-15-2007, 10:12 AM
i hate when that happens.
It sucks when it happens to you, but if you're ever there to witness it it'll be hours before you can stop laughing.

Clutch20
08-15-2007, 10:13 AM
I guess, so am I. Married 28 years 8-23-79 :toast

Lucky shit, I am :downspin:
28 years!
Congrats on your martial marathon, marini martini.
We shits need to pin a medal on our spouses for putting up with us all these years, I think I'll pin mine down on her sometime late tonight :p:

Jimcs50
08-15-2007, 10:58 AM
Not being able to date other women

Bigzax
08-15-2007, 11:01 AM
It sucks when it happens to you, but if you're ever there to witness it it'll be hours before you can stop laughing.


i could see that.

hey cavsfan,
why didn't you just take her to the circus yourself?

CavsSuperFan
08-15-2007, 11:41 AM
Because I did not know about these issues while happily married...I found out during the final stages of marriage counseling...At which time she was attending the circus with some guy at the office while I was working two jobs to pay off her credit cards and new Ford Lariat F250 4x4... :dramaquee

spurs_fan_in_exile
08-15-2007, 12:25 PM
Because I did not know about these issues while happily married...I found out during the final stages of marriage counseling...At which time she was attending the circus with some guy at the office while I was working two jobs to pay off her credit cards and new Ford Lariat F250 4x4... :dramaquee
For the record, I wasn't sure you were serious. Please take no offense at my smart ass comment.

Bigzax
08-15-2007, 12:37 PM
Because I did not know about these issues while happily married...I found out during the final stages of marriage counseling...At which time she was attending the circus with some guy at the office while I was working two jobs to pay off her credit cards and new Ford Lariat F250 4x4... :dramaquee


damn dude. i woulda shook a bitch.

CosmicCowboy
08-15-2007, 02:04 PM
The hardest part of being married? The 11 years, 5 months, and 22 days since I innocently asked the question "Have you ever thought about going on a diet?"

CosmicCowboy
08-15-2007, 02:10 PM
Or it COULD have been about three hours after I fucked up and asked THAT question when, totally fed up with arguing, I told her if I'd wanted a fat wife I would have married one.

Bigzax
08-15-2007, 02:16 PM
:lmao

masochist.

to21
08-15-2007, 02:20 PM
Because I did not know about these issues while happily married...I found out during the final stages of marriage counseling...At which time she was attending the circus with some guy at the office while I was working two jobs to pay off her credit cards and new Ford Lariat F250 4x4... :dramaquee

Damn dude that sucks. I hope you have since found someone else who can appreciate a man wiling to work two jobs.

ShoogarBear
08-15-2007, 04:47 PM
Not being able to date other womenWasn't that also the hardest part of being single for you? :p:

ShoogarBear
08-15-2007, 04:48 PM
Or it COULD have been about three hours after I fucked up and asked THAT question when, totally fed up with arguing, I told her if I'd wanted a fat wife I would have married one.Or it could have been the waiting in the ER for them to take the bullet out of your ass.

SpursWoman
08-15-2007, 04:49 PM
Or it could have been the waiting in the ER for them to take the bullet out of your ass.


Or penis reattached? :lol

ShoogarBear
08-15-2007, 04:51 PM
Or penis reattached? :lolI would suspect that would not qualify under the "hardest part" criterion.

SpursWoman
08-15-2007, 04:52 PM
True. :oops

1369
08-15-2007, 04:53 PM
I would suspect that wouldn't qualify for the "hardest part" criterion.

Depends, doesn't rigor mortis set in within about two hours?

SpursWoman
08-15-2007, 04:54 PM
Depends, doesn't rigor mortis set in within about two hours?


But would it set in if it was hacked off with a butter knife, therefore not still attached to the body? :wtf

FromWayDowntown
08-15-2007, 04:59 PM
I have found that the hardest part of marriage is finding someone to marry.

dickface
08-15-2007, 05:03 PM
Marriage is like a never-ending episode of Everybody Loves Raymond, except it's not funny.

-knocked up

Findog
08-15-2007, 05:06 PM
Marriage is like a never-ending episode of Everybody Loves Raymond, except it's not funny.

-knocked up

Everybody loves Raymond was funny?

Spurminator
08-15-2007, 05:08 PM
Finding out she doesn't enjoy sex as much at you thought she did before you were married. Especially as a mid-twenties male.

dickface
08-15-2007, 05:10 PM
Everybody loves Raymond was funny?
i guess Judd Apatow thinks so.

Flea
08-15-2007, 05:35 PM
There are many times I want to say 'fuck it' and leave and there are many times when I can't imagine being without him. He puts up with my shit and I put up with his. But then I remember that he's not a slacker, doesn't try to control what I do, doesn't care if I cook dinner every night, doesn't complain if the house gets messy and I don't feel like cleaning it every 5 minutes. But most importantly, he makes me laugh.


Wow Shelly, he sounds a lot like my husband! :lol
Hmmmm, could he be living a double life?

Flea
08-15-2007, 05:38 PM
Or it COULD have been about three hours after I fucked up and asked THAT question when, totally fed up with arguing, I told her if I'd wanted a fat wife I would have married one.


It's a miracle you are still alive and posting. :lol

Shelly
08-15-2007, 05:43 PM
Wow Shelly, he sounds a lot like my husband! :lol
Hmmmm, could he be living a double life?


:lol Sometimes I think I married my father...to which my mom says, 'that may not be a good thing!' :lol It will be 48 years for them in November!

And CC, :bang

SpursWoman
08-15-2007, 06:08 PM
Wow Shelly, he sounds a lot like my husband! :lol
Hmmmm, could he be living a double life?


Or possibly a 3rd? That's pretty much how it is around here, too...lots of laughing, and he's more than happy to pick something up or make a sandwich if I forgot to take something out of the freezer or just don't feel like cooking. I'm OCD about cleaning, though ... it's a character flaw that I just can't help.



Maybe laughter is the secret to it all? Cuz for one thing, it's hard to do when you're pissed. :lol

Melmart1
08-15-2007, 06:38 PM
I have found that the hardest part of marriage is finding someone to marry.
:tu Funny though cus for a long time I thought you were married. :lol

But seriously, for us singles the hardest part is listening to married people. Not so much the ones in here, but the bitter ones who are miserable yet refuse to move on and end their marriage. I swear I have had more than a dozen different women comment to me about how they envy my being single and urge me never to marry. How fricken sad is that?

I'm still hoping for the best though :) :dizzy

FromWayDowntown
08-15-2007, 07:16 PM
:tu Funny though cus for a long time I thought you were married. :lol

Never have been. I wonder why I came across as married, though? That's curious to me. (but this thread isn't about me!!)


But seriously, for us singles the hardest part is listening to married people. Not so much the ones in here, but the bitter ones who are miserable yet refuse to move on and end their marriage. I swear I have had more than a dozen different women comment to me about how they envy my being single and urge me never to marry. How fricken sad is that?

I'm still hoping for the best though :) :dizzy

I think that can go both ways. I have friends who envy my bachelorhood and tell me, too, that I should never consider marriage. I have other friends, though, who swear that they wouldn't want any part of my bachelorhood and that I should get married as soon as possible.

I suppose the latter group gives me some solace that marriage is still something worth pursuing, even if it might take a while to find the right partner.

Melmart1
08-15-2007, 07:53 PM
Never have been. I wonder why I came across as married, though? That's curious to me. (but this thread isn't about me!!)




You are much too polite and considerate to not have been trained by a wife yet. :lol That's why I thought you might be married, although I know plenty of married men who are neither of those things as well. And who cares if this isn't about you -- no thread in this forum ever stays exactly on topic, right?

As for worth pursuing, it absolutely is. I just refuse to settle for any Tom, Dick or Dummy off the street. Now if I could just convince my mother that this is the right course of action, all would be well with the world.

whottt
08-15-2007, 08:28 PM
When I was married the first couple of years were great then...

Her Dad was diagnosed with prostate cancer.
My Dad was diagnosed with prostate cancer.
Her Mon was diagnosed with cervical cancer.
My Grandfather died of cancer.
My Grandmother died.
My Great Aunt died.
My Aunt died.
Her God Father was diagnosed with terminal cancer.
One of my best friends was diagnosed with hepatitis C.
Edit: One of her best friends was diagnosed with and died of leukemia.
She wanted to join the peace corps.
I let her and wished her the best.
My dog died(not of old age either, was some kind of anemia).
Divorce went through.

Everyone stopped dying, getting cancer and other fatal illnesses.

All that death and cancer stuff happened within a span of a about a year and a half...it was an absolutely miserable period for me and her. I don't really know what was going through her mind at the end but since our lives basically revolved around funerals, hospitals, and chemotherapy, and little else, to those we loved, I really couldn't fault her for wanting to get away from all of that. Including me. How much of it was me and our marraige, and how much of it was that run of extreme bad luck seemingly to everyone we were close to, but us, I'll never really know....I just know I think long and hard about the idea of getting married again. The fact that I am a smoker and my aunt died of lung cancer probably didn't help much...

The bright spot of all this is that none of our parents that were diagnosed with cancer died from it....

Hope that bit of info does you more good than it did me ;)

Shelly
08-15-2007, 08:57 PM
Dang, Whottt! But I could see how that could take it's toll on your marriage.

Flea
08-15-2007, 09:11 PM
Maybe laughter is the secret to it all? Cuz for one thing, it's hard to do when you're pissed. :lol


Yep. There have been many times I'm pissed and he gets me over it by making me laugh or making fun of our heated argument so we both end up laughing hysterically.

Flea
08-15-2007, 09:13 PM
Wow Whott, that must have been difficult.

Flea
08-15-2007, 09:14 PM
Melmart I love your avatar. That is one of my most favorite movies.

spurs_fan_in_exile
08-15-2007, 09:18 PM
I think that laughter is just as much a diagnostic, if you will. Sense of humor is something that varies so much from person to person that if you find someone who gets you well enough to make you laugh a good deal, that's something special in itself.

Flea
08-15-2007, 09:59 PM
I think that laughter is just as much a diagnostic, if you will. Sense of humor is something that varies so much from person to person that if you find someone who gets you well enough to make you laugh a good deal, that's something special in itself.


I agree. My DH had me at the first laugh which happened quickly.

1Parker1
08-15-2007, 10:01 PM
Wasn't that also the hardest part of being single for you? :p:


:lmao :lmao Good one.

1Parker1
08-15-2007, 10:04 PM
Based on this thread...perhaps I don't ever want to get married either! :lol

marini martini
08-15-2007, 10:11 PM
Awwwwww 1Park, you got to try it at least once :toast

2Blonde
08-15-2007, 10:15 PM
Based on this thread...perhaps I don't ever want to get married either! :lol

Why is that? It sounds like most of the posts in here are pretty positive about the long term trials & tribulations of marriage. Besides, if you never marry then you still go through the same ups (promotions, family weddings, etc...) and downs (job losses, sickness, death, etc...) but you do it alone rather than with a partner.

tlongII
08-15-2007, 10:33 PM
Estrogen Forum

whottt
08-15-2007, 10:34 PM
Dang, Whottt! But I could see how that could take it's toll on your marriage.


I left stuff out too...I mean in some ways it was like a dark cloud just hung over.

mrsmaalox
08-15-2007, 10:37 PM
For me the hardest part is keeping my mouth shut when I want to let loose and rip him a new one. Not everything is worth fighting over, you have to pick your battles carefully!

marini martini
08-15-2007, 10:43 PM
For me the hardest part is keeping my mouth shut when I want to let loose and rip him a new one. Not everything is worth fighting over, you have to pick your battles carefully!

Me frickin 2 :toast

Dayum Whott, wgtf?

Shelly
08-15-2007, 11:07 PM
Whott--it does seem like a black cloud was over y'all. Sorry the both of you had to go through all that. I guess in the end it makes you a stronger person, right?

whottt
08-15-2007, 11:23 PM
Sorry the both of you had to go through all that. I guess in the end it makes you a stronger person, right?


It does, yeah, you get over it and you can either get back to enjoying life or you can dwell on it. Being single is pretty fun...you can do what you want, you don't have near as much responsibility, and you don't have to be alone unless you chose to be...


I imagine a good marriage probably does beat being single...but being single definitely beats the heck out of a bad/unhappy marriage...at least it does to me.

Sportcamper
08-16-2007, 10:02 AM
What do you all think?

I have suspected for some time now that my wife has been cheating on me.

The usual signs: phone rings, but if I answer, the caller hangs up. My wife has been going out with "the girls" a lot recently, although when I ask their names she always says, "Just some friends from work, you don't know them."

I always try to stay awake to look out for her coming home, but I usually fall asleep. Anyway, I have never broached the subject with my wife. I think deep down I just didn't want to know the truth, but last night she went out again and I decided to really check on her.

Around midnight, I decided to hide in the garage behind my golf clubs so I could get a good view of her when she arrived home from a night out with "the girls". When she got out of the car she was buttoning up her blouse, which was open, and she took her panties out of her purse and slipped them on. It was at that moment, crouching behind my clubs, that I noticed that the graphite shaft on my driver appeared to have a hairline crack right by the club head.

Is this something I can fix myself or should I take it back to the pro shop where I bought it?

ShoogarBear
08-16-2007, 10:52 AM
But would it set in if it was hacked off with a butter knife, therefore not still attached to the body? :wtfYou seem to have put way too much thought into this.

ShoogarBear
08-16-2007, 10:56 AM
Based on this thread...perhaps I don't ever want to get married either! :lolYou'd have to learn to put the cereal in before the milk.

2centsworth
08-16-2007, 02:49 PM
the loss of privacy.

angel_luv
08-16-2007, 04:15 PM
For those of you who have been married or are married?


:angel


A better question, why are you asking?

:)

Kori Ellis
08-16-2007, 05:20 PM
A better question, why are you asking?

:)

:) I was just going to ask her if her boyfriend had proposed.

To answer the question, there's not really much that's hard about marriage if you don't sweat the little stuff. My best advice to any woman getting married is to not be a nag. If it's not that serious (i.e. put the toilet seat down, put your clothes in the hamper, stop watching football, etc) then it's not really relevant in the big scheme of things. If you don't nag, life is a lot easier.

angel_luv
08-16-2007, 05:26 PM
:) I was just going to ask her if her boyfriend had proposed.



Thank you! I couldn't believe there was three pages of responses and not one other person was curious about the question itself.

Maybe I am part reporter. :lol

pseudofan
08-16-2007, 11:15 PM
I personally think the hardest part is this:

Not getting arrested for murder.
Not getting arrested for assault.
Not getting arrested for arson.


mmmmmm, other than that....it's pretty easy. I've been doing it for a really really long time now. :)


Just kidding honey! Love you!!!

I suggest getting married to any woman who would like to surrender her life, identity, and sanity

Kidding again honey!! Love you more!!!

Clutch20
08-16-2007, 11:15 PM
Thank you! I couldn't believe there was three pages of responses and not one other person was curious about the question itself.

Maybe I am part reporter. :lol
For those of you who have who have known all along that 1Parker! was female..........I didn't know :)

T-Pain
08-17-2007, 12:24 AM
i think the hardest part of being married is keeping yourself under control when you see a hot ass chick, and having to keep in mind that your already hitched and you cant go after her. Im not married yet, but i think thats probably one of the biggest challenges. I have a friend who is 24 and married, but at work, he flirts with this other chick like hardcore. Im talkin like holding her and playing flirting games with her like tapping her on the shoulder as he walks by her and shit. I dont want to tell him anything because hes my friend and its really none of my business. But i think thats probably on of the most difficult parts of being hitched.

SequSpur
08-17-2007, 11:12 AM
I personally think the hardest part is this:
Not getting arrested for murder.
Not getting arrested for assault.
Not getting arrested for arson.

mmmmmm, other than that....it's pretty easy. I've been doing it for a really really long time now. :)

Just kidding honey! Love you!!!

I suggest getting married to any woman who would like to surrender her life, identity, and sanity

Kidding again honey!! Love you more!!!

the hardest thing is sleeping with one eye open.

DarkReign
08-17-2007, 11:35 AM
Nothing.

ShoogarBear
08-17-2007, 05:10 PM
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=76125&page=1&pp=40

Shelly
08-17-2007, 05:23 PM
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=76125&page=1&pp=40

:lmao

SpursWoman
08-17-2007, 05:48 PM
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=76125&page=1&pp=40

:lol :rollin

ALVAREZ6
08-17-2007, 05:53 PM
:) I was just going to ask her if her boyfriend had proposed.

To answer the question, there's not really much that's hard about marriage if you don't sweat the little stuff. My best advice to any woman getting married is to not be a nag. If it's not that serious (i.e. put the toilet seat down, put your clothes in the hamper, stop watching football, etc) then it's not really relevant in the big scheme of things. If you don't nag, life is a lot easier.Word :tu



If the toilet seat's up, just STFU and put it down, it's quicker.

CuckingFunt
08-17-2007, 06:43 PM
I've never understood the toilet seat argument. Its no more a pain in the ass for us to put the toilet seat down a few times than it is for the guys to put it up every time.

Flea
08-17-2007, 06:46 PM
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=76125&page=1&pp=40


:lmao

1Parker1
08-17-2007, 08:18 PM
:) I was just going to ask her if her boyfriend had proposed.


:lol No proposal, yet... I was just wondering since it seems that all my friends seem to be getting married and that's all they talk about...already bitching about in-laws, etc. Also, everyone keeps pressuring me about it as well...I was never one of those girls who imagined what her wedding day will be like, or how her husband will be, etc. I'm a complete un-romantic and it's really hard for me to picture myself as married. Probably because I am very independent and have semi-trust issues. :lol But now that I am getting older, I am starting to re-consider my views on marriage.

I was just wondering what everyone's experiences were with marriage.

Shelly
08-17-2007, 08:24 PM
I've never understood the toilet seat argument. Its no more a pain in the ass for us to put the toilet seat down a few times than it is for the guys to put it up every time.

I live in a house full of testosterone. Since I'm the one that has to clean the friking toilet, they can put it down. And they do :gpower

marini martini
08-17-2007, 08:29 PM
I hate when he puts ketsup on everything I cook :bang

JoeChalupa
08-17-2007, 09:03 PM
Gotta love it. Tonight she's out with some friends and I'm at home with the kids. No problem.

Southwest Texas Fan
08-17-2007, 10:55 PM
Compromise!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!