Brent? Are you getting the message?

[exstatic]

After Manu left the game for good, the SA backcourt combos were:

Parker/Udrih
Udrih/Wilks

Bowen was also left in the game until the end. There were probably 10 game minutes available for Barry had Pop wanted to play him.

[ducks]

oh no another thread we get to hear
all the excuses why barry should get mintutes based on what he did with sonics

[whottt]

We have an 11th man making the MLE for the next 4 years.

Excellent signing by Pop.

[ducks]

spurs had one last year making that with rose

barry is tradable though not like rose last year

[whottt]

Oh yeah Pop's always known how to build a guys trade value.

[ducks]

We have an 11th man making the MLE for the next 4 years.

Excellent signing by Pop.


so who should have he signed?

beno was not proven then
and barry can play the one
jack still had the same stupid agent

[ducks]

Oh yeah Pop's always known how to build a guys trade value.


so you want to keep him making that much and being the 11 man off the bench?

[Rummpd]

The fact is despite Barry struggling it doesn't really matter short term = rookie stud in Beno and developing 4th scoring machine in Brown.

No worries. Barry will probably do a Kerr when it counts and come out of deep ice and absolutely kick *&^ the Spurs to a needed victory.

MadDoc

[whottt]

so who should have he signed?

Someone he is willing to play? Just a thought.


beno was not proven then

And he is now?


and barry can play the one

Barry is the worst player in NBA history...it just took Gregg Popovich and the city of SA to show the world the truth.



jack still had the same stupid agent

His agent wasn't as stupid as Barry's was.


Anyway, I don't know ducks but I sure enjoyed this season, it flew by so fast but man that was a great trophy presentation.


Do you think they'll annoint us the greatest team of all time...I mean since we beat this fierce Cavaliers team?

[ducks]

why was barry's agent stupid?

he is getting paid good money

[ChumpDumper]

(We have to donwplay this victory because Barry didn't play enough)

[exstatic]

I remember Bill Fitch's comments about Barry after the Clips traded him to Miami early in his career: "Brent Barry's book on defense doesn't have very many pages" :lol I guess I'm just appalled that either he hasn't learned any more about it, or that RC and Pop watched no film of him before they signed him. He's a freaking open gate to whomever he's guarding.

Sean had some interesting comments during the telecast tonight. He was commenting about Drew Gooden's lazy defense, and saying how Pop doesn't care how good your offense is, if you dog it on defense, you're on the bench for a while until you figure it out. I guess Brent either hasn't, or isn't capable of playing any better defense.

[ducks]

you have to get backups just incase players get hurt and if another player is stuggling

if spurs did not have brown,beno they would have lost more games so far

[whottt]

why was barry's agent stupid?

he is getting paid good money

If he all he was worried about was money he wouldn't have come to San Antonio.

[Marcus Bryant]

Could've had Jack back instead.

Go Northside.

[whottt]

(We have to donwplay this victory because Barry didn't play enough)

This victory had nothing to do with Barry, or Devin for that matter.

[ducks]

they did not know for sure if beno was the real deal

so they went with the guy that could play backup point

and if tp gets hurt it would be nice to still have barry

[ducks]

would barry got a 4 year deal on other teams

he might have gotten more money but 4 years?

[ChumpDumper]

This victory had nothing to do with BarryYes, that's why it must be downplayed.
or Devin for that matter.Yes, pretend you wouldn't have nutted at a Barry line like Devin had tonight.

Downplay.

Downplay.

[whottt]

they did not know for sure if beno was the real deal

so they went with the guy that could play backup point

and if tp gets hurt it would be nice to still have barry



Barry is the worst player in NBA history. It just took Gregg Popovich and the city of SA to show the world the truth.


And don't sit there and say Barry is going to all of a sudden snap out of this...

Pop has fucking destroyed this dude in a matter of weeks...

He doesn't shoot, he passes under the basket, what defensive ability he had like to steal the ball he doesn't even try do that...he doesn't even hit FT's anymore. He just sits stands there trying to figure out what he can do to keep from getting benched. He thinks before he does anything on the court.

Call him pussy..but just remember he's our pussy now and we gonna be paying him a lot of money...

Remember that when Devin comes up for contract negotiations.

[ChumpDumper]

Pop has fucking destroyed this dude in a matter of weeks...Yep, chat fellows -- I have indeed called it.

Thank you. Thank you.

[whottt]

would barry got a 4 year deal on other teams

he might have gotten more money but 4 years?

Ok my bad...SA offered Barry the most money, best deal.

He just came here for the money.

[ducks]

that is why I want to trade him now or by trading deadline

holt might not want to pay devin

[smeagol]

Pop has fucking destroyed this dude in a matter of weeks...
I believe there is some truth o that statement . . .

[ducks]

whott is he worse then aj?

[whottt]

whott is he worse then aj?


Worse than AJ?

AJ saved Drob from a career in the lottery...how can you even ask this question?

[ducks]

pop said on tnt against the rockets they have had no time to practice with this schedule

they play 9 times in 20 days

and 3 days off tell next game

barry has time to watch film and spurs and crew can practice



hopefully he will come around

[ducks]

you said barry was the worse player in the nba history :spin

[whottt]

you said barry was the worse player in the nba history :spin


And I meant it.

[ducks]

I just asked you if aj was better then aj since you do not like aj

that is why I asked you that

[whottt]

I just asked you if aj was better then aj since you do not like aj

that is why I asked you that

Yes.

[whottt]

Yep, chat fellows -- I have indeed called it.

Thank you. Thank you.


You are such a dumbass....of course I'm not going to change my stance on this subject...did you think I just had that stance because we lost to the Rockets? I started complaining about it around the Detroit game and raised hell about it when he did it on back to back nights.

I don't like the way Pop is using the guards, I don't like the way he is using Barry. I think it sucks. I think Pop is being a huge dick and I think he's actually sabotging the team in the process. Beating Cleveland on a night when jeezus h, they played no fucking defense, of course that didn't change my mind.

I'm just glad we didn't lose. And yes, if we had I would have gone through the roof over it.


I don't know why you think this game would change my mind. You are either stupider than I thought or...well no, I guess that's it. Period.

FYI, I'm probably not going to change my stance on this until the post season..or until we win the 65+ games I predicted and were on pace to wi,n until Pop started coaching like a dumbass. You heard it here first don't expect any change...and if I'm wrong...I'll probably just pull a chump and spin it...

[ChumpDumper]

I don't know why you think this game would change my mind.That wasn't my prediction, skippy.

[whottt]

That wasn't my prediction, skippy.

Hedo>Manu

[ChumpDumper]

Hedo>ManuThat wasn't my prediction, skippy.

Hug Barry for me.

No welfare.

[smeagol]

Hedo>Manu
Can somebody retrieve that thread?

Should be a classic.

[whottt]

Can somebody retrieve that thread?

Should be a classic.


What's also classic is chump saying "no welfare" in every post he makes, when all he did last year was defend welfare and say he was "leaning towards" the well known welfare recipient named Hedo, over Manu.

[ChumpDumper]

We had no choice.

You agreed.

It's amazing that you want to go through that again, especially when we actually have better options -- all the welfare gave us was a false sense of security.

What's the qwhottta again? How many minutes?

[whottt]

We had no choice.

We did have other options.


You agreed.

I never agreed that it was the only option dumbass.


It's amazing that you want to go through that again, especially when we actually have better options -- all the welfare gave us was a false sense of security.

Um, no, it gave you the false sense of security dumbass...you were the one that was "leaning towards" Hedo because of it...I was the one saying wait until the playoffs.

[ChumpDumper]

I never agreed that it was the only.You agreed it was the best.
I was the one saying wait until the playoffs.I said exaclty the same thing, because Hedo hadn't been tested. All the coddling just set him up for a bigger fall when things actually got tough. You want the same for Barry.

For the last time -- what is the qwhottta? How many welfare minutes will make you happy?

[whottt]

Just be glad we've got the guy many believe to be the best shooter in the NBA, so fucked up, that he doesn't shoot even in garbage time, on the now rare occasion he actually gets to play it...and we are paying him the MLE.

Now that's a real winning combination.

Brilliant.

[ChumpDumper]

Barry is blameless of course.

I'll begin the "play him or trade him" mantra in late January.

Plenty of time for him to prove to you he isn't as weak as you think he is.

[whottt]

You agreed it was the best.I said exaclty the same thing, because Hedo hadn't been tested.

Best? yes. Only? no. And I had no illusions over which one of them was the better player.

And no bitch, I argued with you in that thread. You spent the majority of the argument calling Manu a pussy for being a team player.



All the coddling just set him up for a bigger fall when things actually got tough. You want the same for Barry.

Gotdangit you fucking stupid. Welfare got more out of Hedo than anything else would have...that was why I agreed with the move...but you were the dumbass that was leaning towards Hedo because of it...Shut the fuck up on this.




For the last time -- what is the qwhottta? How many welfare minutes will make you happy?

For the last time...enough to where he doesn't suck and doesn't look like fan who won a contest to play in an NBA game.

[whottt]

Barry is blameless of course.

I'll begin the "play him or trade him" mantra in late January.

Plenty of time for him to prove to you he isn't as weak as you think he is.


Good...so you'll be finally catching up to me next month. Congrats.

You are definitely on a quicker pace than you were to figure out that Hedo not > Manu.

[smeagol]

Just be glad we've got the guy many believe to be the best shooter in the NBA, so fucked up, that he doesn't shoot even in garbage time, on the now rare occasion he actually gets to play it...and we are paying him the MLE.

Now that's a real winning combination.

Brilliant.
Chump:

It looks like you will always be at odds with Whottt. But he seems to have a point.

Barry was, until this season, one of the top three best perimeter shooters in the NBA.

What happened?

Is this slump 100% his fault?

Or is there some blame to be put on Pop? Maybe, just maybe, Pop does not know how to use him.

Plus the fact he is playing 9 min. per game is not helping either.

[ChumpDumper]

And no bitch, I argued with you in that thread. You spent the majority of the argument calling Manu a pussy for being a team player.Nope, I said he was a pussy if he was going to let it affect his re-signing this past summer like you and all the Argies thought. Once again, you underestimated Manu just like you are underestimating Barry now.
Welfare got more out of Hedo than anything else would have...that was I agreed with the move...but you were the one that was leaning towards Hedo because of itAnd I said wait til the playoffs, too.
For the last time...enough to where he doesn't suck and doesn't look like fan who won a contest to play in an NBA game.A number. Give the number of minutes. Don't be the pussy you think Manu was and Barry is.

[ChumpDumper]

Good...so you'll be finally catching up to me next month.Really, what trade did you suggest? Link?
Is this slump 100% his fault?

Or is there some blame to be put on Pop? Maybe, just maybe, Pop does not know how to use him.Sure. Could be. If it turns out that way, there's no reason to keep him. Pop isn't leaving. His system isn't leaving. How come all the other guards are flourishing now? How come they can hit their shots? How come they can defend worth a shit? Five guards are getting the job done. One isn't. Who should change?

Sure, trade him now if he's as big a pussy as you think he is. Sorry you gave up on him so soon.

[whottt]

I try hard to be the dumbest motherfucker on planet earth. I succeed.

[ChumpDumper]

Name your number.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Why isn't Brent getting run in blowouts at least? How is the guy supposed to work on his game from the bench?

I guess Brent has taken the Malik role over from last year.

[ChumpDumper]

Maybe he should've tried a jumper in the minutes he did get.

[exstatic]

I don't think that Brent is outright intentionally antagonizing Pop the way that Rose did last year. He just can't stop anyone from scoring. That'll get you glued to the Spurs bench like nothing else.

[exstatic]

CD - I agree. If I'm Brent, I'm going to bust my ass on D, and shoot every time I'm wide open within the offense. That's what Pop is looking for. Ball movement is fine, but he's passing on open jumpers, short ones, to pass to someone else who's probably not as good a shooter, and further away from the hoop. Unselfishness can be taken too far.

[T Park]

Only problem is, everytime Barry gets the ball he looks scared.


If he would actually nut up and shoot the ball instead of driving to the hole and throwing a stupid ass pass back to the three point line to get stolen, he would more than likely get more time.


Hes not just not playing D, hes playing absolutely stupid.

[whottt]

In my opinion, the potential for stupidity in human beings is limitless. I strive to reach new levels of stupidity with every thought I have.

[T Park]

:rolleyes


God whottt, grow up.

[ChumpDumper]

Are you going to stall all night or give a number?

[whottt]

So like I was saying...Pop doesn't know how to utilize or appreciate offensive talent, as great as he is on the defensive side of the ball, he is stupid on the offensive side of the ball.

Offense is an important part of the game, and it has it's role to play in winning champioships. Last season, we were tied I believe with the Pistons, as the best defensive teams in NBA history. No title.

And one last time...thank Tim Duncan, not Pop, for Kerr being released from the bench...otherwise we blow the lead in that game too, and again, no title.


Steve Nash would be getting the Brent Barry treatment if he was on this team.


In the meantime, we have an 11thman making the MLE and a coach with a history of not being able to unload high priced talent that he is unhappy with. Fucking great.

[ChumpDumper]

A number.

[whottt]

Say something to me, and I will filter it through my brain and make it more stupid.

[whottt]

Kat

[ChumpDumper]

Stall all night it is.

[T Park]

Pop doesn't know how to utilize or appreciate offensive talent

Forget Manu Ginobili, TOny Parker, Devin Brown, Stephen Jackson.


Yes, its ALL Pop's fault why Barry stinks right now.


Unfucking real.

[whottt]

I admit to struggling when trying to make something said by TPark sound stupider than when he himself first said it.

[ChumpDumper]

5 out of 6 guards are playing well in this system.

It must be changed for welfare cases.

[whottt]

Nothing says stupid like chasing ones own tail, observe.

[T Park]

Answer the question WHottt,

How can Bowen, GInobili, Parker, Udrih, Brown, all do well, but Barry cant?

The system?? or the Player.

IF YOU cant figure it out, then YOUR the idiot.

[Kori Ellis]

Barry got eight minutes in the first half and he probably would have gotten eight more in the second half if he would have shown anything, anything at all in the first half.

But he didn't.

I'm not saying he should be playing stellar D or knocking down shots. But how about one crisp pass or other simple basic play instead of what we saw tonight. I understand that you make think that he's under a lot of pressure and thus not performing in his limited minutes, but damn. Show something, any sign that you are worthy of being on the floor. A full eight minute stretch in the first half is enough time to show something.

[ChumpDumper]

[Awaits Hootie's manly attack on Kori]

[whottt]

Barry got eight minutes in the first half and he probably would have gotten eight more in the second half if he would have shown anything, anything at all in the first half.

But he didn't.

I'm not saying he should be playing stellar D or knocking down shots. But how about one crisp pass or other simple basic play instead of what we saw tonight. I understand that you make think that he's under a lot of pressure and thus not performing in his limited minutes, but damn. Show something, any sign that you are worthy of being on the floor. A full eight minute stretch in the first half is enough time to show something.

And he's been playing like that all season? Pretty obvious to me that this was a new low...all he's doing now is trying to not make a mistake, he thinks before he does every single thing.

So now we've figured out that Barry can't pass also? Doesn't say much for our scouting.

He's not a good player...you guys should be happy, ya'll were right and Pop proved it. We taught that shithead a lesson about taking less to try and play for our mighty franchise didn't we?

Now we just gotta figure out how to dump him..I don't like having an 11thman playing for the MLE, do you?

I'd rather have someone who can guard 6'10 SF's.

[whottt]

[Awaits Hootie's manly attack on Kori]

Actually, if you don't see the difference between yourself and Kori...She takes what I say and asks me questions about it...you take what I say, make it stupider, ask me questions based on your stupid interpretation of what I said...and then you ignore my answers.

And no I don't expect you to see this.

[ChumpDumper]

I asked you a question.

About seven times.

How many minutes do you want Barry to play every game?

8 is obviously not enough for you.

How many is enough?

You have been asked.

Again.

[taruky]

He he, you didn't think I could read "Hedo" and not respond, did you? Pop was not the problem with Hedo last year, and he's probably not the problem with Barry this year. I don't think it takes a genius to figure out what happened. Hedo is playing very well this season, a force off the bench despite hitting only 31% from the 3. Oh, he'll get his 3pt % up to 37-40% in the end (he was shooting worse from the 3 at this point last season), but the fact is he's scoring in every which way possible. On the Spurs Parker rarely gave the ball up to anyone but Duncan, even spurning Ginobilli on many occassions. Hedo by default had to be a spotup 3-point shooter, something he is not. Honeslty I haven't watched many Spirs games this year, but I'm guessing the ball hasn't been passing through Barry's hands much either. I doubt Barry is used to that. Just my 2-cents worth, feel free to rip me a new one.

[SequSpur]

Spurs went up by 30 when Barry was in the game.

What you got to say about that?

[Kori Ellis]

Whottt, you are the most defensive person I've ever seen in my life. EVERYONE in this forum thinks that Barry is eventually going to be key for the Spurs this season. EVERYONE thinks he's got a high basketball IQ, is one of the best perimeter shooters around, and a great teammate. NO ONE thinks that this rotation is going to last forever with Barry getting under 10 minutes per game and no one wants it to. But for Christ's sakes, open your eyes. Barry is getting his chances. Like a said, he got eight minutes in the first half -- all in one stretch -- not sporadic. And believe me, if he would have shown a sign of life, he would probably gotten eight more in the second half. But like you always say, it's about the wins. And after two losses in a row, you gotta put the guys on the floor who are going to help you win. Yes, Barry needs to be on the floor to work his way out of his funk. But not at the expense of winning. He's gotta do something for himself. There's absolutely no reason with the depth on this team that you need to give him pity minutes. He WILL break out of the funk and he will be a key contributor to this team. But get over yourself and admit he's not doing it right now and that's nobody's fault but his own. In the beginning of the season Devin was playing like 3 minute stretches at a time. If a guy as young and inexperienced as Devin can show something in 3 minutes, then Brent Barry with all his savvy, shooting expertise, and other skills needs to step up and show something in eight.

Take a nap and wake back up and read your posts. You are seriously beginning to sound like a madman. You know a lot about basketball. You know that Barry isn't doing his part. So stop going crazy, he'll work through it. No one here wants to trade him.

[T Park]

So it was Tony Parker's fault for Hedo last year??

Interesting.

Thats a new one......

[ChumpDumper]

Whottt, you are the most defensive person I've ever seen in my life. EVERYONE in this forum thinks that Barry is eventually going to be key for the Spurs this season. EVERYONE thinks he's got a high basketball IQ, is one of the best perimeter shooters around, and a great teammate. NO ONE thinks that this rotation is going to last forever with Barry getting under 10 minutes per game and no one wants it to. But for Christ's sakes, open your eyes. Barry is getting his chances. Like a said, he got eight minutes in the first half -- all in one stretch -- not sporadic. And believe me, if he would have shown a sign of life, he would probably gotten eight more in the second half. But like you always say, it's about the wins. And after two losses in a row, you gotta put the guys on the floor who are going to help you win. Yes, Barry needs to be on the floor to work his way out of his funk. But not at the expense of winning. He's gotta do something for himself. There's absolutely no reason with the depth on this team that you need to give him pity minutes. He WILL break out of the funk and he will be a key contributor to this team. But get over yourself and admit he's not doing it right now and that's nobody's fault but his own. In the beginning of the season Devin was playing like 3 minute stretches at a time. If a guy as young and inexperienced as Devin can show something in 3 minutes, then Brent Barry with all his savvy, shooting expertise, and other skills needs to step up and show something in eight.

Take a nap and wake back up and read your posts. You are seriously beginning to sound like a madman. You know a lot about basketball. You know that Barry isn't doing his part. So stop going crazy, he'll work through it. No one here wants to trade him.Hmm. Not one question in there.

Proceed.

[Kori Ellis]

Spurs went up by 30 when Barry was in the game.

What you got to say about that?

That the other four guys on the floor were playing awesome when he was in.

[SequSpur]

He drew a triple team, which left the others with open looks.

:)

[whottt]

Whottt, you are the most defensive person I've ever seen in my life. EVERYONE in this forum thinks that Barry is eventually going to be key for the Spurs this season.



that is why I want to trade him now or by trading deadline


Who was I responding to in this thread originally?

And I don't think Barry is going to be much of a factor at this point.

He's not even getting minutes in blowouts now...

Don't act like Pop doesn't consign guys to bench hell...Steve Kerr was our back up for most of 03 and Pop iced him when Speedy came back. Kerr went like 3 months without playing.

Last season, he consigned Malik to bench hell...

He does do it...as Exs said...if he doesn't like the way a guy plays D, it's over barring injury. Doesn't matter what they do on offense...and Elliott said the same thing.

Me personally, I don't understand why we don't just play zone if he is that bad of a defender...we ran zone for some of the first half tonight. Although ironically, not when Barry was in the game.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

How can Bowen, GInobili, Parker, Udrih, Brown, all do well, but Barry cant?


Manu hasn't had a good game in over a week now :(


I'm not saying he should be playing stellar D or knocking down shots. But how about one crisp pass or other simple basic play instead of what we saw tonight.

Kori, I've been disappointed in Brent's play, but I gotta speak up. He had a play late in the first half where he drove and collapsed the whole Cav D, kicked it back to I think it was Devin (?) who missed a wide open jumper at the top of the key.

He also showed some D. McInnis drove on him, Brent was right there and actually forced a turnover via a bad pass when Jeff had to bail on the play.

It struck me there in the second that Brent has completely lost all confidence in his game. There were two seperate plays where he could have had dunks or finished with a solid move, and instead looked to pass. Dude's not even looking for his shot anymore (he didn't even look confident on his FTs).

When a shooter's slumping you've got to get him enough touches to get out of it. I don't think there was really any excuse for not playing him at the end of the game tonight, Spurs were up over 20, don't think you could ask for a better time to put him in and get him some looks.

[Kori Ellis]

Quote:
Originally Posted by ducks




that is why I want to trade him now or by trading deadline





Who was I responding to in this thread originally?

Well Ducks also doesn't think LeBron is very good. So maybe he's an exception to the norm regarding these type of things.

[T Park]

Also of note.

SOmeone said on the radio tongiht that maybe Barry needed Minutes with Duncan??


The players he came in with at the time

Nesterovic
Duncan
Bowen
Parker


The starting 5 pretty much.


He stunk tonight. Plain, and simple.

Making excuses for him tonight is ascanine, and saying its Pop's fault for the funk he is in right now, is beyond ludacris.

I like Brent Barry, I think, as Kori does, that eventually, he is going to be a huge contributer, and is gonna be vital.

IMO, the Spurs NEED for him to contribute to win this year.

But to say he should take minutes from Bowen or Brown, or Ginobili right now, is not fair to those other three.

Even Udrih is playing better than Barry.

[Kori Ellis]

Kori, I've been disappointed in Brent's play, but I gotta speak up. He had a play late in the first half where he drove and collapsed the whole Cav D, kicked it back to I think it was Devin (?) who missed a wide open jumper at the top of the key.

Noted. But he also made two very, very bad passes and played "nervous" for a lack of a better word. He has to make the most of his minutes. Keep the game simple, stick to basics. He'll get back on track. Come playoff time we need ALL the swingmen at the top of their games to win another title.

By the way, I think there should be more praise for Tony Parker in the forum tonight than there is. He was frickin' outstanding tonight.

[T Park]

Manu hasn't had a good game in over a week now

IMO its fatigue.

If Barry could wake the hell up, you could let Manu prob sit for almost whole games and let him rest.

But since Barry is deciding to drive to the hole, stop, up fake upfake (and we thought Malik only did this) and then throw the ball to the other side of the court and turn it over, hes not EARNInG his minutes.

[SequSpur]

As long as Brent Barry is on the floor, he is one of the biggest threats in the NBA. Dude can light it up from the outside. This opens up the interior. Exactly what the Spurs needed in last years playoffs and it went away along with Parker.

So STFU. It doesn't matter right now, it will work out. Dude just started playing with the Spurs. Everyone else except for Beno has played here for at least 2 years. Barry is lacking corporate knowledge. Big deal.

[ChumpDumper]

When a shooter's slumping you've got to get him enough touches to get out of it. I personally think 8 minutes is enough time to put up one jumper
I don't think there was really any excuse for not playing him at the end of the game tonightI thought that was strange too, but we did get a peek at a Beno/Parker backcourt, and maybe Wilks' time as a Spur is winding down. Showcase.
Dude can light it up from the outside. Then he should probably shoot from the outside at least once every 8 minutes. Preferably more.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Yeah, nervous is a good word to describe him tonight. Bummer.

At the risk of getting flamed, it seems Manu has hit a wall after his ridiculously hot start. Maybe we should sit him for a few nights and boost the minutes of the rest of our perimeter guys (including Brent).


I personally think 8 minutes is enough time to put up one jumper

Chump, the offense was rolling, and Brent never got a look at a jumper during his time in there.

[T Park]

If that didnt risk wins Aggie, I would agree with that wholeheartedly.
I would be in favor of ILing him and starting Barry in that time.

But Barry cant handle end of 2nd quarter minutes with the starters.



SEqu, great post, that sums up how everything is.

Hes new, everything is new, this is first time on a contending team.

Itll take time.

Beno is just a freak in how well he is playing.

[timvp]

As long as Brent Barry is on the floor, he is one of the biggest threats in the NBA. Dude can light it up from the outside. This opens up the interior. Exactly what the Spurs needed in last years playoffs and it went away along with Parker.

So STFU. It doesn't matter right now, it will work out. Dude just started playing with the Spurs. Everyone else except for Beno has played here for at least 2 years. Barry is lacking corporate knowledge. Big deal.

Holy sheeeet.

Did Sequ just write this perfect post?

[ChumpDumper]

Chump, the offense was rolling, and Brent never got a look at a jumper during his time in there.They overpassed all night, and I can't really call his D on McInnis satisfactory. I'm with you on the garbage time, but Brent didn't really earn anything more than 8 minutes tonight.

He'll do better.

[timvp]

Spurs have some time off so Manu should get rested.

It would be pretty cool for him to be put on IR at some point this year with a fake injury just to get some rest. His whole basketball life, Manu has had to be careful with his minutes. Even during the Olympics and when he played in Italy, coaches have always had to help limit his minutes.

[whottt]

.

Barry is totally struggling and lost. He looked like a fan who won a contest to be in an NBA game tonight.

Obviously he is thinking of how to play D, so much that he no longer plays offense. He's just trying not to make a mistake...trying to figure out how after being the best shooter in the NBA for much of the past 4 years, he is getting beat out by a rookie PG.

It's going to be Steve Kerr part two...unless someone gets injured or really pisses pop off.


Difference being...Kerr had won titles and had confidence in his abilities before Pop got hold of him...Barry hasn't...I don't expect him to handle 6 months of icing as well as Kerr did. He might...but confidence is everything to a shooter and Barry's has got be at an all time low.


Kerr knew he could do it in the first place, Barry doesn't. I also don't expect Duncan to call for Barry..since he doesn't know Barry can do it either.


Might have been nice to have Nicconi...if weren't going to try and utilize the skills Barry has, because of the skills he doesn't.


IMO Barry = a very expensive piece of merchandise that we aren't going to utilize any further this season unless disaster strikes.


What I hope...that Beno can shoot in the post season like he does now...because he is getting the PT.

I am also curious as to how this is going to turn out when Devin Brown comes up for his contract next season...we better hope he wants to stay in SA a whole lot..because I don't think Holt is going to be feeling generous.

[T Park]

Whats next, Aggie complimenting Pop on a well coached game?

lol just joshin Ag.

[timvp]

Maybe Barry was shell-shocked after getting his shot blocked 15 rows up into the stands. A little more to the right and I could have caught it.

:smokin

[ChumpDumper]

IMO Barry = a very expensive piece of merchandise that we aren't going to utilize any further this season unless disaster strikes.Again, I think you underestimate Barry.

[timvp]

Barry is totally struggling and lost. He looked like a fan who won a contest to be in an NBA game tonight.

Obviously he is thinking of how to play D, so much that he no longer plays offense. He's just trying not to make a mistake...trying to figure out how after being the best shooter in the NBA for much of the past 4 years, he is getting beat out by a rookie PG.

It's going to be Steve Kerr part two...unless someone gets injured or really pisses pop off.


Difference being...Kerr had won titles and had confidence in his abilities before Pop got hold of him...Barry hasn't...I don't expect him to handle 6 months of icing as well as Kerr did. He might...but confidence is everything to a shooter and Barry's has got be at an all time low.


Kerr knew he could do it in the first place, Barry doesn't. I also don't expect Duncan to call for Barry..since he doesn't know Barry can do it either.


Might have been nice to have Nicconi...if weren't going to try and utilize the skills Barry has, because of the skills he doesn't.


IMO Barry = a very expensive piece of merchandise that we aren't going to utilize any further this season unless disaster strikes.


What I hope...that Beno can shoot in the post season like he does now...because he is getting the PT.



You're giving up already? :lmao

It isn't even the middle of December yet. Damn, you'd be a horrible boxer. You'd throw in the towel after the obligatory glove tap.

Hold your chin up.

[Kori Ellis]

Again, I think you underestimate Barry.

Yeah, me too. Whottt, Barry is going to get his chances and he's going to get his minutes. He possesses a lot of skills that the Spurs desperately need on this team. He's a very important piece. It will work out -- patience is a virtue. Don't think that his minutes in the last three games are the permanent norm.

[T Park]

[QUOTE]A little more to the right and I could have caught it.[QUOTE]

not just a little, aaaallllooooottttttt.

BTW, when did you start bustin out the Bowen gear for Spurs games...

question

[whottt]

You're giving up already? :lmao

It isn't even the middle of December yet. Damn, you'd be a horrible boxer. You'd throw in the towel after the obligatory glove tap.

Hold your chin up.


:rolleyes

Please archive that quote so I can reference it the next time someone calls me fillibuster, accuses me of brainwashing the forum, or whines about me always trying to get in the last word.

[timvp]

Sorry, it must be an evil plan by Pop to get you carpal tunnel syndrome.

[whottt]

Yeah, me too. Whottt, Barry is going to get his chances and he's going to get his minutes.

How so? Under what conditions will that occur? When he starts outplaying Devin Brown? On both sides of the ball? That will never happen. Barry could never be the defender Brown is. And that's the biggest part of my problem with what is happening now. I think these are the minutes that Pop is going to give to the 8th man. I don't think he should have a set 8th man, I don't think he should have set minutes. And I think Devin Brown should be starting at SF.

So basically the only way I see things changing is if someone gets hurt or starts playing badly. That doesn't give me any more of a warm feeling.

And it's not like I'm making the stuff up...we all saw what he did with Kerr..thousands of us complained for years that he would never put Kerr in in the midst of blowing 4th quarter leads...It was Duncan that got Kerr off the bench in 03, even though Kerr was our back up PG for almost the entire season, and played very well while Speedy was out.

Kerr was better than Speedy in 03. Kerr did more to win that championship than Speedy, regular season and playoffs. But you wouldn't know that looking at how Kerr was used when Speedy was healthy. And that was hardly unique to Kerr's career...granted Kerr didn't exactly tear it up in every post season with the Spurs...bit he had legacy...what he could do was known.

I mean you'd think when Pop has the best 3 shooter in NBA history on his bench, that guy might come to mind when he is looking for threes and watching Porter, Ferry, etc...brick them into a post season loss. But he never did that...he traded him.


He possesses a lot of skills that the Spurs desperately need on this team. He's a very important piece.

Preaching to the choir.



It will work out -- patience is a virtue. Don't think that his minutes in the last three games are the permanent norm.

I don't...I think it's getting worse, now he's not even getting garbage minutes.

DNP's come next?

I know what Pop is doing...Pop's ripping them to play D...he's getting them in that defensive mindset that is annual thing...but Barry is the team bitch, he's being intentionally made into the team bitch by Pop...And it's unjustified IMO it's also misguided.


Pop is busting his ass, breaking him down, so he can try and make him into a defensive player, so he can use him without his precious defensive schemes getting broken...but he needs to back the hell off because what he is doing isn't working.


Some guys are just what they are.

Just like Rasho...everyone thinks Rasho is solved...well Rasho isn't solved. Rasho will float again. Bank on it. IT's not that he's soft..it's just the type of guy he is.

But this, I mean does Barry seem to be improving? On top of that he wasn't playing that badly prior to the Detroit game.

I'm not just making this stuff up...We all know how Pop is.

[Rick Von Braun]

Maybe Barry was shell-shocked after getting his shot blocked 15 rows up into the stands. A little more to the right and I could have caught it.

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/images/smilies/smismokin.gifTechnically it was not a block, because there was a foul called right before it happened. Nice play by King J. though http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/images/smilies/smiking.gif

I would give Barry at least 15 minutes per game.

[exstatic]

If the shot would have counted (and it would have), does not the defensive player get the block?

[ChumpDumper]

The thing that impressed me most about Kerr's heroics against Dallas and NJ was his near-flawless defense given the circumstances. You can say whatever you want about whatever you think is Pop's fault, but you can't ignore that Kerr sure as hell understood Pop's D and his work on D that game was just as important as all those threes.

If anything, Barry is BETTER equipped to fit in the defense than Kerr ever was.

He can get it. Don't give up on him.

[timvp]

If the shot would have counted (and it would have), does not the defensive player get the block?

Many argue that should be the rule, but it isn't. Too bad because Robinson would have averaged like 5 blocks a game throughout his career because once the whistle blew, he defended the rim at all costs.

[timvp]

The thing that impressed me most about Kerr's heroics against Dallas and NJ was his near-flawless defense given the circumstances. You can say whatever you want about whatever you think is Pop's fault, but you can't ignore that Kerr sure as hell understood Pop's D and his work on D that game was just as important as all those threes.

If anything, Barry is BETTER equipped to fit in the defense than Kerr ever was.

He can get it. Don't give up on him.

Hell of a good point. Kerr played awesome defense when put into the game.

It wasn't just the three-pointtters.

[Kori Ellis]

I don't...I think it's getting worse, now he's not even getting garbage minutes.

DNP's come next?

I know what Pop is doing...Pop's ripping them to play D...he's getting them in that defensive mindset that is annual thing...but Barry is the team bitch, he's being intentionally made into the team bitch by Pop...And it's unjustified IMO it's also misguided.


Pop is busting his ass, breaking him down, so he can try and make him into a defensive player, so he can use him without his precious defensive schemes getting broken...but he needs to back the hell off because what he is doing isn't working.

Like I said, Pop gave him an eight minute stretch in the first half and would have given him probably the same in the second half if he did something in the first. And it's not just D. It's anything.

Barry, if he's the player we all know he is, will earn his minutes back. He can get his eight minutes, plus take two each from Manu, Bowen, Beno and Devin and have 16 mpg. But he's not going to get them if he doesn't do anything.

Again, I repeat, he could have done something, anything in those eight minutes tonight in the first half. He didn't.

Pop isn't ripping him constantly about D like you fantasize in your head. Pop wants him to succeed. He's trying to get him to be part of the team and it's success -- offensively and defensively. And he will. Barry will be one of the many keys off the Spurs bench this season. And he'll end up averaging 16-20 mpg.

But don't go crazy about it right now. Pop isn't the one who caused Barry to go 0-for-17 from 3 over that stretch of games. Barry has to work through this ... and he will. You act like it's impossible for him to earn minutes back. He just needs to play smart, and play steady. It's not about him becoming a defensive juggernaut.

[whottt]

The thing that impressed me most about Kerr's heroics against Dallas and NJ was his near-flawless defense given the circumstances. You can say whatever you want about whatever you think is Pop's fault, but you can't ignore that Kerr sure as hell understood Pop's D and his work on D that game was just as important as all those threes.

After 5 years, and no, his D was not as important as those threes. Please do not say that. He was in there for his threes. And they were what turned the tide. In any case, prior to the yankem phase Barry was doing a lot of other stuff that was helping our O, other than shooting threes.


If anything, Barry is BETTER equipped to fit in the defense than Kerr ever was.

jholy shit. Please tell me you don't think that is an original thought?



He can get it. Don't give up on him.


I know you can stop being pedophile. I won't give up on your ability to memorize the gettysburg adress. Perhaps someday you will will be able to back up your smack about tunneling under mount Everestt :rolleyes

[whottt]

2+2=4, Whottt doesn't get it. We do.

[ChumpDumper]

Please tell me you don't think that is an original thought?No, you need the obvious pointed out to you a billion times over. You're the one claiming he is incapable of learning.
and no, his D was not as important as those threes. Please do not say that. He was in there for his threes.If all we were going to do was trade baskets and have Kerr foul every time he tried to defend, Spurs lose.

I will ask you one more time, since being asked questions makes you all nicey nice -- you claim.

How many minutes do you want Barry to play every night?

You have typed everything in the known universe tonight -- type a number.

[whottt]

What you guys fail to remember about 03...is that Pop tried to ice him again. He even embarrassed himself in the media after game 4 when some journalists owned him on why we kept blowing 4th quarter leads.

Pop never appreciated Steve Kerr's value, Kerr's D was always unfairly maligned, on top of that, the guy never had any knees from day 1 in the NBA, more like after his senior season in college...tough to be a good defender with no knees.


Pop still had to be cajoled into using Kerr in the playoffs, even after the Dallas game. Even after a very solid regular season by Kerr. Pop even got owned in the media after game 4 of the finals. I see nothing to give me any faith in Pop that Barry is going to turn out to be different.

I could never figure out why Kerr went 3 months without playing. But it's not a method I advocate to get the most out of your guards...I mean it's not like Pop turned Kerr into a good 3 shooter by doing that. He was already a good one, and fortunately for us...he already knew he could help win a championship...Pop certainly never did anything to make him believe that.

And as you guys was poetic about Kerr in 03....just remember Pop traded him and went with Terry Porter, the ringless one.

[ChumpDumper]

Ok, fire Pop. We get it.

Looks like Pop isn't going anywhere though.

You seriously believe Barry can't play team D on even a Steve Smith level?

Still waiting on that number.

[whottt]

No, you need the obvious pointed out to you a billion times over. You're the one claiming he is incapable of learning.

Nope, I'm the one claiming his D will never justify, in the eyes of Pop and other dickheads who like choking in the playoffs, the minutes his O does to any sane person..




If all we were going to do was trade baskets and have Kerr foul every time he tried to defend, Spurs lose.

If D was of equal importance to threes Kerr would not have been in the game. Luckily for us Duncan is sane.


I will ask you one more time, since being asked questions makes you all nicey nice -- you claim.

How many minutes do you want Barry to play every night?

And I will again refuse to classify it in those terms. And tell you to kindly scroll your ass on back to the previous answers I have given. That also lack a set number.

Meanwhile...you go ahead and get 40 other people to put words in mouth and then I'll do my part and keep calling you stupid.


You have typed everything in the known universe tonight -- type a number.

It's not the number of minutes in and of themselvess that is important to me. It's the yanking in big games and the absence of his skills when we are in the process of blowing leads(insert shitty cuntlike rationalization of all Barry's games this season being like tonights, or the other games since the yanking has been occuring, here)

And I know that statement will fuck your simple mind all up...I can't help it.

[ChumpDumper]

And I will again refuse to classify it in those terms.But 8 isn't enough. That's a number.
And tell you to kindly scroll your ass on back to the previous answers I have given. That also lack a set number. Which is why I keep asking what your threshold is for not whining about his PT? How will we know when you are happy?
It's not the number of minutes in and of themselvess that is important to me.Nor to me. I want the minutes to be of something resembling quality play. He'll get more if they are. Any other way is a complete waste -- an insult to the players who are actually playing well and to Barry, who doesn't need your undetermined number of pity minutes [insert shitty cuntlike rationalization that Barry's lack of PT is the only reason the Spurs could ever lose a game this season here] .

[whottt]

Ok, fire Pop. We get it.

Um, I've never seriously called for Pop to be fired...and only once in jest...Karl Malone. And if you bothered to read in MB's dynasty thread, I've said that when this organization loses Pop it will have a lot of struggles ahead of it and will probably not be able to match it's current success...#1.For losing the organizational genius that Pop is..an area he is far superior in to coaching...#2. It'd be difficult to replace him as a head coach. He's a brilliant defensive head coach.

But that doesn't mean he doesn't do stupid shit when it comes to offense and guards. It doesn't mean he's flawless...He does. One of his best attributes is that he gets lucky.

Lucky we didn't sign Jason Kidd. Lucky we didn't sign Chris Webber...


Looks like Pop isn't going anywhere though.

I don't want Pop to go anywhere...I just want him to listen to me about guards so we can stop choking in the post season.


You seriously believe Barry can't play team D on even a Steve Smith level?

Um, you must want to see Barry's minutes reduced even more.


Still waiting on that number.

Grab a snickers.

[ChumpDumper]

I don't want Pop to go anywhere...I just want him to listen to me about guards so we can stop choking in the post season.LMFAO

Keep typing -- I'm sure he can hear the tapping.
Um, you must want to see Barry's minutes reduced even more.So that's a "no"?

You really think this guys sucks. Dig up that trade you claim to have proposed -- maybe Pop will "listen" to that.

[whottt]

But 8 isn't enough. That's a number.Which is why I keep asking what your threshold is for not whining about his PT? How will we know when you are happy?

When his number gets called as viable option in the second half of big games in which we are blowing leads.

Unfortunately, tonight was a new low so who knows if he still has that or not...




Nor to me. I want the minutes to be of something resembling quality play. He'll get more if they are. Any other way is a complete waste -- an insult to the players who are actually playing well and to Barry, who doesn't need your undetermined number of pity minutes [insert shitty cuntlike rationalization that Barry's lack of PT is the only reason the Spurs could ever lose a game this season here] .

You just don't get it do you....I'm not wanting Barry to get those minutes for pity...I want him to get them because he is the most steady, sure handed, and experienced guard on our team, he takes the best shots, he's the best FT shooter, he's the best midranger shooter, he leads the team in 2 t FG%, he makes the best passes with the fewest amount of TO's... and I think he can help prevent blowing 4th quarter leads because of those things, even if his 3 isn't falling....regardless of what he shoots in the first half or how he plays D.

[ChumpDumper]

There's the rationalization.

Only Barry can save us.

If we lose it can only be because he didn't play enough.

[whottt]

LMFAO

Keep typing -- I'm sure he can hear the tapping.So that's a "no"?

That's a "me calling you stupid" again.


You really think this guys sucks.

No, I think you suck.


Dig up that trade you claim to have proposed

with Sato for Jax?


-- maybe Pop will "listen" to that.

I doubt he reads the board. A sane person would probably realize that.

[whottt]

There's the rationalization.

Only Kerr can save us.

If we lose it can only be because Kerr didn't play enough.

FTFY

[ChumpDumper]

I doubt he reads the board. A sane person would probably realize that.Hey, you're the one who wants him to listen to you.

[whottt]

Hey, you're the one who wants him to listen to you.

Wanting it and thinking it is or will happen are two different things...actually 3 different things but you know what I mean...er never mind, forgot who I was talking with...

3 different things.

[ChumpDumper]

You just don't get it do you....I'm not wanting Barry to get those minutes for pity...I want him to get them because he is the most steady, sure handed, and experienced guard on our team, he takes the best shots, he's the best FT shooter, he's the best midranger shooter, he leads the team in 2 t FG%, he makes the best passes with the fewest amount of TO's... and I think he can help prevent blowing 4th quarter leads because of those things, even if his 3 isn't falling....regardless of what he shoots in the first half or how he plays D.I'd rather give that time to the young guys who actually play worth a shit during the course of a game to develop so they can play in these situations when they really count, y'know in case your dream comes true and Barry sucks as much as you say he does.

[whottt]

I'd rather give the young guys who are actually play worth a shit during the course of a game to develop so they can play in these situations when they really count,

And you'd also "lean towards" Hedo over Manu just because Manu is in a slump after taking one for the team...



y'know in case your dream comes true and Barry sucks as much as you say he does.

I gotta give you credit...you really do push the envelope when it comes to stupidity.

[ChumpDumper]

I gotta give you credit...you really do push the envelope when it comes to stupidity.And you break right through it.

Seeing as you have written off Barry for this season and possibly forever, why play him ever? You said Pop destroyed him. What then? I mean, what now?

[whottt]

And you break right through it.

Seeing as you have written off Barry for this season and possibly forever, why play him ever? You said Pop destroyed him. What then? I mean, what now?

No, I don't...I'm capable of reading what you write and responding to the words that you wrote...you are too stupid to do that. You have to turn it into something else then ask me to answer questions and defend my position based on statements I never made. Get fucked. Stupid.

Edit: and as for the Pop destruction part of it...he is destroyed as we speak. It's pretty obvious. It could change...but I don't like the reason I think it would change...injury to another key player. IE, Brown, Parker, Manu, Bowen. A change that would leave us in a weakened state...We gain nothing in that instance.

[ChumpDumper]

You have to turn it into something else then ask me to answer questions and defend statements I never made.LMFAO at the hypocrite.

So now Barry is destroyed?

What minutes should he get now that he is destroyed?

[whottt]

Read my edit, I answered the non stupid part of your post directly.

[ChumpDumper]

So the now-destroyed Barry shouldn't get any of the minutes you have been arguing he should have been getting the entire night.

[whottt]

So the now-destroyed Barry shouldn't get any of the minutes you have been arguing he should have been getting the entire night.

Stupid.

[ChumpDumper]

He should get those minutes?

But he's destroyed.

What good is he?

Make up your fucking mind.

[whottt]

He should get those minutes?

But he's destroyed.

What good is he?

Make up your fucking mind.



Hmmm....


but I don't like the reason I think it would change...injury to another key player. IE, Brown, Parker, Manu, Bowen. A change that would leave us in a weakened state...We gain nothing in that instance.



So the now-destroyed Barry shouldn't get any of the minutes you have been arguing he should have been getting the entire night.

[ChumpDumper]

So the now-destroyed Barry shouldn't get any of the minutes you have been arguing he should have been getting the entire night.Sorry, that should have ended with a question mark.

But it obvious that you think, barring injury, the now-destroyed Barry shouldn't get any of the minutes you had been arguing he should have all night.

I'm glad you cleared that up for all of us. Maybe you'll take less than 6 pages and 7 hours to flip-flop completely next time.

[whottt]

Sorry, that should have ended with a question mark.

But it obvious that you think, barring injury, the now-destroyed Barry shouldn't get any of the minutes you had been arguing he should have all night.

I'm glad you cleared that up for all of us. Maybe you'll take less than 7 pages and 7 hours to flip-flop completely next time.

I never said he shouldn't, you fucking changed it to that, stupid...I just said I don't think he's going to...

[mattyc]

You're giving up already? :lmao

It isn't even the middle of December yet. Damn, you'd be a horrible boxer. You'd throw in the towel after the obligatory glove tap.

Hold your chin up.
And your ears...
http://www.aftonbladet.se/sport/0402/11/SPORT-11s81-tyson-97.jpg

:drunk

[Gummi]

Man people have some deep deep hate for Barry in here. So what, that he got that contract, he deserved it. Just because he hasn't played well this season doesn't mean he's trash. He's going to be valuable player for us this season, just wait and see. His contract is very reasonable and very tradable. So if he stinks all season we could trade him. There are many teams out there that would love to have him.

[Rummpd]

I can see CIA Pop pulling a rabbit soon and bringing Barry in very early vs. weak teams to boost confidence.

Otherwise he will sit until Brown and Beno fall back (if they do).

MadDoc

[pjjrfan]

Anybody remember what Kerr did during the 99 playoffs? I'm not sure about the numbers, but he was 0-13 or something like that, the whole year, he just couldn't get it going, but in the playoffs, he seemed off. We know what happened in 03. I see Barry the same way, the guy can do it, it's just a matter of timing now. Luckily for us Brown and Udrih are producing, but they are new players, and the question of whether they can do it for a full season and in the playoffs is very much up in the air.

[T Park]

If Brent Barry is that easily "ruined" by lack of playing time in December then he wouldn't hold up in May.

IMO, hes not "ruined" according to the Whottt filibuster BS here in this thread.


I think all Barry has to is freakin relax, and stay in front of his man on defense.

Hes trying too damn hard, and hes horrible on offense for being such a "fantastic" offensive player.

[whottt]

I'm the guy that wanted to tank the season last year because of an ankle sprain. I thought Hedo was going to be a winner, that Anthony Carter was going to be the man, and I thought Devin Brown was going to suck. God blessed with me with a short memory, otherwise I'd probably have given up talking by now

[ChumpDumper]

I just said I don't think he's going toHere are my questions for you.

1) Is Barry a destroyed player? Yes or no?

2) Is a destroyed player the best option to have out on the floor, when you have 5 guys available who are the complete oppostite of destroyed? Yes or no?

These are two questions to be answered with two words.

No filibusters, no squirming, no whining.

Yes or no?

[whottt]

Here are my questions for you.

1) Is Barry a destroyed player? Yes or no?

At the moment? Yes.


2) Is a destroyed player the best option to have out on the floor, when you have 5 guys available who are the complete oppostite of destroyed? Yes or no?

No.

Like I said, insert shittty cunt like rationalization that all of his games have been like last nights or even the games he's played since the yankem strategy began, here.



These are two questions to be answered with two words.

No filibusters, no squirming, no whining.

Yes or no?

My question, is he getting better or worse? Do we have better record when he plays more than 20 miniutes per game VS <10 or a worse?

Answer?

Don't worry I don't expect the same courtesy of an honest and legit answer. I expect cuntism, I know you well.

[ChumpDumper]

Yes.

Pre-destruction.

But now you think he's destroyed, so you can't call for him to play those minutes.

What's done is done -- you might as well be asking for a Payton trade 4 years ago, today.

[whottt]

Yes.

Pre-destruction.

But now you think he's destroyed, so you can't call for him to play those minutes.

What's done is done -- you might as well be asking for a Payton trade 4 years ago, today.

Which means my criticism of Pop is valid. Thank you. Which means if we end up having a repeat of last season or 01 in the playoffs Pop should be held accountable for his role in it.


The deal..I could still call for Pop to back off of Barry because it's kind of stupid to pay a guy the MLE and not try to figure out how to get the most out of him. Rather than fuck up his offense trying to make him a defensive player why not just figure out how to mask his defensive shortcomings and let him get back to playing O like he is capable of. Use a zone D? Phoenix seems to be doing it with the Steve Nash. I don't know that he's going to be clutch, I don't know that he would be clutch in the playoffs even if Pop hadn't fucked him up....

but if I was paying a guy the MLE...rather than just having a "fucking pussy" attitude towards the player...I'd try to get his offensive game going....And if it works I'd be happier...I wouldn't "lean towards" him over other players...but I'd feel better about the team's chances as a whole.

Even if Barry does regain his offense though, this season or the next,...he's not going to be used much differently...Devin Brown is a much defensive player. And I will go on record as saying that he is already better than Barry ever will be.

That's no excuse for icing him though...but it will be used as such, and like it has in the past, it will hurt the team.

Pop sets a strict rotation and his mind is shackled by the set minutes thing that shackles many a mind in Spursville...

As for me? I can just look and see that breaking the strict rotation in 03...a move championed by Duncan, lead to us winning a title.


And as for what I am calling for...I didn't start this thread...the Barry haters did.

Check the first post...you'll see them giggiling about us paying a guy the MLE to suck ass. I don't find that fucking funny...I think it's pretty fucked up and I'm left wondering if Pop's luck(Kidd, Webber) has finally run out.

I don't think it's funny, and I think it's even less funny when I keep noticing the obvious achilles heel we have against teams with athletic 6'10 SF types...a hole that could have been filled with the money that instead we are spending on the pleasure of destroying Brent Barry and teaching him a lesson about wanting to play for this team.

[ChumpDumper]

Which means my criticism of Pop is validHow does that change anything? It doesn't.
The deal..I could still call for Pop to back off of Barry because it's kind of stupid to pay a guy the MLE and not try to figure out how to get the most out of him.So you reserve the right to flip-flop again and demand to play a destroyed player.

Understood.
I don't think it's funny, and I think it's even less funny when I keep noticing the obvious achilles heel we have against teams with athletic 6'10 SF types...a hole that could have been paid with the money that instead we are spending on the pleasure of destroying Brent Barry.Don't worry about that -- if Barry is a weak as you say he is, he'll be IRed for Linton soon.

[whottt]

How does that change anything? It doesn't.So you reserve the right to flip-flop again and demand to play a destroyed player.

Ok dumb fuck then I guess you continue to pay him the MLE to suck. Fucking stupid.


See my first post in this thread.



Understood.Don't worry about that -- if Barry is a weak as you say he is, he'll be IRed for Linton soon.

I never called him weak...and you agreed that he is struggling even worse since the yankem phase began.

If any healthy player gets IR'ed for LJ III, I am sure it will be Barry at this juncture...and I am sure his friends on this board will celebrate this. Like I said...the only people in the world tha think Brent Barry is a shitty player reside here on this board.

But go ahead...I can't wait to see the posts of satisfaction by the Popnazis on the forum, at us paying a player the MLE to sit on the IR.

[ChumpDumper]

Ok dumb fuck then I guess you continue to pay him the MLE to suck. Fucking stupid. Damn right it would be stupid. Trade deadline is February.
I never called him weak.You still think he can't recover by himself. You voted for giving him welfare minutes before you voted against it and voted for it again.
and you agreed that he is struggling even worse since the yankem phase began. And I believe he doesn't need welfare to improve. I respect him as a player and a man.
Like I said...the only people in the world tha think Brent Barry is a shitty player reside here on this board.Along with the people who think he's such a shitty and weak player that he can't improve without hugs and welfare.

Count me among neither.

[whottt]

Damn right it would be stupid. Trade deadline is February.

Yeah and Pop's always done a good job of making players with big contracts attractive looking midseason aquisitions to other teams. I mean hey there was like that one time he got that team to take..um...well there was that one times he pulled that slick midseason deal..and uh...uh...Yeah stick em in the doghouse. No one says "have I got a deal for you" like Pop does.




You still think he can't recover by himself.

I never said that, stupid.



You voted for giving him welfare minutes before you voted against it and voted for it again.

No dumbass...I am saying the same thing I have said throughout this thread...that I was saying at the beginning of it...it's just taken your dumbass this long to catch up to me.



And I believe he doesn't need welfare to improve. I respect him as a player and a man.Along with the people who think he's such a shitty and weak player that he can't improve without hugs and welfare.

Count me among neither.

And I think you're stupid...again.

And I've seen you respect welfare recipients...so STFU Hedo.

[MannyIsGod]

Last name Little
First name Chicken

[whottt]

Last name: LivingInDenial
First name: PopNazi

[ChumpDumper]

Yeah and Pop's always done a good job of making players with big contracts attractive looking midseason aquisitions to other teams.No cap space constraints this time around. That alone increases the possibilities tenfold.
I never said that, stupid.So if you think he can recover by himself, why not show some respect and let him?
I am saying the same thing I have said throughout this thread.You are saying the same conflicting things over and over again, I agree. You repetition of them only proves the incongruity.
And I've seen you respect welfare recipients...so STFU Hedo.No better alternative at the time. Now there is. Too bad you think so little of Barry that you want to consign him to Hedo hugs and welfare minutes. He's better than that and you said so, except when you denied it, then admitted it again, then denied it again.

[whottt]

No cap space constraints this time around.

Tell that to Tony Parker.






So if you think he can recover by himself, why not show some respect and let him?

STFU, stupid.



You are saying the same conflicting things over and over again, I agree. You repetition of them only proves the incongruity.

No I'm not. Your fucked interpretaions of what I said are what lead you into tail chasing endlessly...I just get a kick out of it and wonder if anyone else gets as big a kick out of it as I do.



No better alternative at the time. Now there is.

Um I'm sorry...I didn't realize you had no choice but to lean towards Hedo in Hedo>Manu.

You are statistical frontrunning trash lacking any insight that doesn't crammed down your throat by the LA Lakers.



Too bad you think so little of Barry that you want to consign him to Hedo hugs and welfare minutes.

To bad you'd rather lose at a greater pace and engage in endless self dicksucking rather than see the team play as well as it was before Pop got stupid.

The contradiction is you agreeing with me that we have, not had, a better record when Barry plays 20 minutes...and then turning around and acting like the way team is currently playing in the 4 games Barry has been yanked, half of them losses....are some kind of improvement worth defending.



He's better than that and you said so, except when you denied it, then admitted it again, then denied it again.

No, you're just stupid...Mr.Shouldn't. You seem to be too fucking stupid to realize that minutes, undeserved or not, could greatly quicken his getting his act together and helping our team get back to where it was in the 18 games Barry was something other than team bitch.

I like 15-3 better than 2-2...you call that welfare and I think you're stupid. I'm right Hedo...I don't have to eat shit to know I won't like it. Should we continue for another 8 pages?

[ChumpDumper]

Tell that to Tony Parker. I will. Since it's true, is there anyone else you'd like me to tell?
You are statistical frontrunning trashSays the man who used all kinds of stats to justify a qwhottta for Barry. Hypocrite.
The contradiction is you agreeing with me that we have, not had, a better record when Barry plays 20 minutes...and then turning around and acting like the way team is currently playing in the 4 games Barry has been yanked, half of them losses....are some kind of improvement worth defending.You labor under the vomitously stupid assumption that Barry is the only reason for those victories and his absence is the only reason for those losses.
You seem to be too fucking stupid to realize that minutes, undeserved or not, could greatly quicken his getting his act together and helping our team get back to where it was in the 18 games Barry was something other than team bitch.We all understand you welfare theory, hootie, although you can't even put a number to the amount of minutes it would take to satisfy your welfare qwhottta. It's nice that you can say Barry can do it by himself then turn around and say he's too weak to do it quickly without welfare.
I like 15-3 better than 2-2.Yes, your sample size flaw and the Spurs inflated record has been addressed several times over.
Should we continue for another 8 pages?That simply depends on how many times you want to change your story about Barry. Mine hasn't changed one iota -- Barry is good enough and smart enough to play out of this without your welfare minute qwhotttas. You agree with that except when you don't, and we understand your flip-flopping because there are 6 pages of it.

No need to continue.

[BronxCowboy]

Whottt, you're wasting your time with this guy. Just put him on your ignore list.

[Marcus Bryant]

It's not Gregg Popovich's fault that Brent Barry was apparently not required to play defense in the NBA prior to this season.

[timvp]

"I thought defense was something you put around your yard."

--ACTUAL Brent Barry Quote

[whottt]

Guess what? We are, and have been the #1 Defensive team in the NBA, even when Barry was getting 20 mins per game. In fact, we're doing worse now.

If we played bad D I could understand the point you guys are trying to make...but we don't. We have D coming out of our ears. We cannot get any better on D. We could not get any better on D last season. We can however, improve on the other side of the ball.

And again, if he's defensive stiff you guys claim, which is a claim I don't agree with, then use him in zone like every other team in the NBA does that has shitty defensive players. And don't tell me we don't use a zone, we used one in the first half last night extensively, until we put Barry in the game.

[Marcus Bryant]

Why make the D worse for a guy who is stinking it up offensively? Especially when you have guys who are lighting it up such as Devin and Beno?

[whottt]

I dunno, why did we do it last night when Rasho left the game? To help Malik out?

And don't fall too in love with Beno...he's been riding the bench in our big losses and lead bowing quarters almost as much as Barry.

[Marcus Bryant]

Lame fucking argument. Rose has certainly earned his spot in the rotation. Barry has not.

[ChumpDumper]

Malik had shown nothing in his first rotation to suggest he was going to play so badly in the second. All Barry showed you was he was destroyed.

[Guru of Nothing]

20 more days - 'til January

[whottt]

Lame fucking argument. Rose has certainly earned his spot in the rotation. Barry has not.

Yeah well...some, saw that Malk could have still helped us last season, in fact did help us at times, like when Duncan was injured, earned spot or not.

But as long as Malik is getting his minutes you're happy, even when he's going 0-5 and getting 2 boards in 25 minutes, right MarcusVP?

[Marcus Bryant]

How is Barry going to help the Spurs when they have guys who are playing better offensively and defensively? What specific aspect of the game is Barry going to improve upon?

[ChumpDumper]

Is Barry a destroyed player?
Yes.
Is a destroyed player the best option to have out on the floor, when you have 5 guys available who are the complete oppostite of destroyed?
No.

[whottt]

How is Barry going to help the Spurs when they have guys who are playing better offensively and defensively? What specific aspect of the game is Barry going to improve upon?

Because he doesn't take bad shots, make bad passes, miss half his FT's every other night, stupidly turn the ball over etc...stuff like that...see the final 48 seconds of the Houston game. It wasn't all TMac.

[Marcus Bryant]

The argument for Malik last season was that the Spurs needed to be more physical in the paint. With Barry what is the argument? That the Spurs need better shooting from the wing? That the Spurs need better playmaking (and shooting) from the backup point? Sorry, that's not a problem right now.

[Marcus Bryant]

Oh good. One play.

As for bad shots, Barry's taken more bad shots than Devin and Beno combined. He's also missed a bit too many of the wide open variety.

But, I know, he's "surprisingly athletic"...

[whottt]

Oh good. One play.

As for bad shots, Barry's taken more bad shots than Devin and Beno combined. He's also missed a bit too many of the wide open variety.

But, I know, he's "surprisingly athletic"...

That's not true...he's not hitting his shots, but that doesn't mean he's taking bad ones.

[ChumpDumper]

Our young players are going to play these minutes sooner or later. We are developing a rookie and young players while playing championship level basketball. Their development takes precedence over giving welfare minutes to a guy who is going to end up earning the minutes anyway.

[whottt]

Malik had shown nothing in his first rotation to suggest he was going to play so badly in the second. All Barry showed you was he was destroyed.


Coming from the "it" who trashed Malk even this past summer...STFU, welfare recipient leaner towardser..er.

[whottt]

Is Barry a destroyed player?


Quote:
Originally Posted by whottt




Yes.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ChumpDumper




Is a destroyed player the best option to have out on the floor, when you have 5 guys available who are the complete oppostite of destroyed?


Quote:
Originally Posted by whottt




No.





No, you're just stupid...Mr.Shouldn't. You seem to be too fucking stupid to realize that minutes, undeserved or not, could greatly quicken his getting his act together and helping our team get back to where it was in the 18 games Barry was something other than team bitch.

[ChumpDumper]

Coming from the "it" who trashed Malk even this past summer.I said play him or trade him.

And I said I believe he could play like he did before and get back in the rotation.

Just like I believe Barry can.

Eventually it will come down to play Barry or trade him. If it turns out there is no reason to play him then he should be traded. You agree with that.

Until you don't.

I give it half a page.

[ChumpDumper]

No, you're just stupid...Mr.Shouldn't. You seem to be too fucking stupid to realize that minutes, undeserved or not, could greatly quicken his getting his act togetherNo need to rehash the welfare plan, especially if you won't specify your qwhottta.

[whottt]

I said play him or trade him.

And I said I believe he could play like he did before and get back in the rotation.

Just like I believe Barry can.

Eventually it will come down to play Barry or trade him. If it turns out there is no reason to play him then he should be traded. You agree with that.

Until you don't.

I give it half a page.


Right you said he sucked and didn''t deserve to be on the court...guess what ..did you like losing? If you didn't then STFU and don't defend moves that contributed towards it.

[whottt]

No need to rehash the welfare plan, especially if you won't specify your qwhottta.


Ok Hedo.

[Marcus Bryant]

That's not true...he's not hitting his shots, but that doesn't mean he's taking bad ones.

When have Devin and Beno taken "bad shots"? Given your propensity to recall the faults of players this should be easy.

Secondly, since when does missing good shots repeatedly excuse a player? If he's not hitting from the outside and someone else is (forgetting defense for the moment, something as a Barry fan you should be able to appreciate), well...

[ChumpDumper]

Right you said he sucked and didn''t deserve to be on the court.Not anymore than he has played, no. He gets a chance every game. He deserves that.
guess what ..did you like losing? If you didn't then STFU and don't defend moves that contributed towards it.My recommendation was for you to injure more of our opponents' key players if you wanted to maintain our inflated record.

[whottt]

When have Devin and Beno taken "bad shots"? Given your propensity to recall the faults of players this should be easy.

Secondly, since when does missing good shots repeatedly excuse a player? If he's not hitting from the outside and someone else is (forgetting defense for the moment, something as a Barry fan you should be able to appreciate), well...

Beno really hasn't take any, but Beno's hasn't been getting much better court time in our recent return to Spurs basketball either...Devin has taken some. And he's been reamed several times by Pop for doing so.

A telling sign...I haven't seen Pop yell at Barry once this season...That tells me two things..#1.Barry is fucked. #2.He hasn't taken any bad shots or made any incredibly bad passes.



something as a Barry fan you should be able to appreciate), well

And as an AJ fan, you should be able to appreciate a guy that can't hit the fucking side of a barn or defend a rock...in fact you should want his jersey retired.

[ALVAREZ6]

Here we go again....

continue Chump and Whottt

[Marcus Bryant]

When has Devin Brown taken a bad shot?

[Marcus Bryant]

At least Jack understood how to play defense.

[MannyIsGod]

lmao.

This is hillarious. I guess there has to be SOMETHING to argue about at all times.

[whottt]

Dunno the exact moment he has taken a bad shot, but rest assured, I have seen him do it and I've seen him get yelled at for it. And I've also seen Devin make a really big TO as well...believe it or not.


At least Jack understood how to play defense.

Eventually. Jack also understood how to make 7 bonehead TO's in the first half of a finals game as well...Still, if you want to exchange Barry for Jack, be my guest.

[Marcus Bryant]

So you have no examples of when Brown has taken a bad shot. Thank you.

Jack also knows how to hit shots to win a championship. Barry?

(Lest we forget who is 26 and who will be 33 in a couple of weeks.)

[whottt]

Jack also knows how to hit shots to win a championship. Barry?

(Lest we forget who is 26 and who will be 33 in a couple of weeks.)




Still, if you want to exchange Barry for Jack, be my guest.


Keep fishing.

[Marcus Bryant]

Keep trying to change the subject.

[Dario]

And don't fall too in love with Beno...he's been riding the bench in our big losses and lead bowing quarters almost as much as Barry.

Well today i had some spare time and i went playing around with stats. As a rookie beno is shooting .467 from 3 point range (14 FGM 30 FGA) which is good for 5 spot overall in NBA. Furthermore i was wondering how well is he doing as backup to tony and it looked even better that i thought.
Beno Tony
PPG 5.5 PPG 13.5
RPG 0.8 RPG 3.4
APG 1.4 APG 5.6
SPG .59 SPG 1.18
BPG .05 BPG .00
FG% .484 FG% .437
FT% .762 FT% .692
3P% .467 3P% .255
MPG 13.2 MPG 33.3

Basicly beno has got better statistics than tony. His percentage is little better in FG and FT, but he is way better in 3 point play then tony. If you go further and do simple math calculation in minutes and points, you will see that beno outscores tony if both would have same minutes. Beno would have 13,875 PPG in 33.3 MPG. I think you should give him at least some slack, given this is his rookie year in one of the best team in NBA. :nope
PS: Dont let me do some more math and calculate what stats tony should have compared to beno with his 66 mills. Can someone tell me how much beno is earning per season? That should be interesting :depressed

[whottt]

Damn, I didn't realize Chump was Slovenian.

Dario, I'm going to be nice to you and chalk it up to the language barrier, and since your English is probably a lot better than my Slovenian, I don't have much room to talk....

Let me just state this clearly...I in no way was insulting Beno in that post. I was making note of the fact that Beno has been yanked out of the big games and had his minutes reduced, just like Barry...by Pop...and it has hurt our offense in those games, it has hurt our team.

...and I was pointing out that Beno not getting minutes in those games probably contributed to our offensive struggles in the second half...unlike Barry though...Pop doesn't have an excuse of poor shooting for yanking Beno. Yet he still did it.

So when my erstwhile Spursbrethren were comparing Beno to Barry and using Beno as an example of Pop cutting a weak d player some slack because of his offense..., I was trying to point out that his shooting isn't making much of a difference to Pop, Beno is getting yanked almost as much as Barry...so I don't know why they think it's going to make a difference with Barry.

In summary...Pop has worried so much about D in our big games recently, that he has been hurting our offense by cutting the minutes of some of our more steady offenseive players, in those games.

And it's not hard to prove...we've either had to barely hang on for the win, or blow a lead, in most of those games.


And I'll leave you with a few stats...or give you a hint anyway...

Tell me our record in games when Beno has played less than 10 minutes...I have a feeling it is similar to our record when Barry plays less than 10 minutes...a bad one.

My point...Pop goes gets overly consumed with D in big games this season, particularly in the second half of these games, and Pop is the one to blame for our offensive struggles in these games....he's the #1 culprit.

And he always has been.

[Dario]

Imo he's quite good in D, only mistake (major one) is his pickenroll, where he is left guarding much bigger player, but up to now duncan has made this error go away with his blocking. Decision for pop to put beno to bench in 4/4 is quite normal to me, if you consider he is just a rookie and pop got far more expirienced players then him right now in roster.