Red/Blue/Intelligent: Do you believe the possibility?

[DarkReign]

When I was growing up, my father never said "Dont trust the Democrats/Republicans/Black people/Hispanics/etc."

He always said, "Dont trust the government."

Child of the 60s, he was drafted but failed the physical legitimately (cross-eyed doesnt begin to explain his condition, more like "zero depth perception", never could catch...anything...ever).

Is it possible, with the above in mind, that watching the current direction of our nation you come to the conclusion that we are being mislead?

I know, rhetorical question.

This isnt about Republican/Democrat, its about the way of the world. Like it or not, the War on Terror (dumbest slogan ever, btw) is going to be remembered as the biggest political vehicle since....shit, ever.

The founders of the War on Terror (heretofore referred as WoT) are still using its weight behind their ulterior motives. But not for long. No indeed, some other political think-tank is already brainstorming a way to use this new ride as a means to an end for their agenda.

Democrats are salivating at the chance to put their puppet behind the Presidents desk so he can use all the cool new powers and tools that Bush Jr. has passed as necessary.

Republicans want to refine their approach with their toy as well. Who knows what some think-tanks are devising under the guise of security. I have only my imagination which seems pretty limited in the face of the actual reality these tyrants are capable of.

My question then...

Do you think its possible that the culmination of this country's efforts in the WoT are just a farce in an effort to achieve any number of political and financial goals while in the same breath keeping the dumbed-down American public complicit under a veil of fear?

[clambake]

Do you think its possible that the culmination of this country's efforts in the WoT are just a farce in an effort to achieve any number of political and financial goals while in the same breath keeping the dumbed-down American public complicit under a veil of fear?
There is no question regarding the money to be made. Why spend millions of dollars to campaign for a position that only pays 100k. The power that comes with it opens the door to endless, lucrative ventures.

I don't live in fear. Only conservatives live in fear, because that's what they've been trained to do. It's shameful that it's so easy to accomplish. Many of us are smothered in their idiocy.

[DarkReign]

There is no question regarding the money to be made. Why spend millions of dollars to campaign for a position that only pays 100k. The power that comes with it opens the door to endless, lucrative ventures.

I don't live in fear. Only conservatives live in fear, because that's what they've been trained to do. It's shameful that it's so easy to accomplish. Many of us are smothered in their idiocy.

You may not live in fear. But when elections are won and lost biannually on the superficial label of "weak" or "strong" on terrorism, it seems most degenerates are.

[clambake]

You may not live in fear. But when elections are won and lost biannually on the superficial label of "weak" or "strong" on terrorism, it seems most degenerates are.
That's why I said "Were smothered by their idiocy". There is no better way to control. Fear works.

[DarkReign]

That's why I said "Were smothered by their idiocy". There is no better way to control. Fear works.

But deflecting fear works much, much better. Theyve fabricated an enemy, trumped up their capabilities and convinced the sheep the wolf is hunting.

I fail to understand why we, as the sole superpower of the world, would fear a few thousand people with no organized military, no access to WMDs and no means to deliver real damage.

We are a country of (roughly) 400 million people....living in fear of maybe 1 million, non-native people?!?!?! (very high estimate there just to be overly fair)

[ggoose25]

Do you think its possible that the culmination of this country's efforts in the WoT are just a farce in an effort to achieve any number of political and financial goals while in the same breath keeping the dumbed-down American public complicit under a veil of fear?

Most definitely. I don't believe the conspiracies that claim 9/11 was a government ploy to usher in a police state. But i do believe that the second the towers were hit political strategists realized the fear provoking power of the threat of terrorism.

The fear led us into a war against a nation with no direct threat to our security, and it managed to simultaneously weaken our military and empower the government to do whatever they damn well pleased as long as it was furthering the war on terror.

You were so right when you said that Americans have deluded themselves into thinking the terrorists are everywhere, plotting the destruction of their local chamber of commerce or city hall. But those delusions have been flamed by the administration that realized people are so desperate for a false sense of security that they are willing to whore out their civil liberties and give absolute power to the government to protect them.

Its funny that the same conservatives that are so distrusting of the government and want it cut out of their social lives as much as possible are also in favor of blindly trusting the president to protect them from terrorism at all costs. They want a leader that's "tough on terror". Someone who assures them that they are safe, even if it means giving absolute power to the government that they are otherwise wary of. They are that desperate. It's sad.

I'd rather live in the real world, where people know that 100% of terrorism cannot be prevented. Where people choose not to let fear run their lives, and where people continue to hold their freedom as more important than their false sense of security.

Because honestly, if you give away everything to the government to keep you safe, you are just going to be even that more miserable when a terrorist does finally get through. You will be left with zero freedoms, zero choice, zero power over the government that you empowered, and it would have all been for nil.

[DarkReign]

Excellent post. Its my exact sentiment. I find it disturbing that so many people are willing, even begging the government to do something, ANYTHING to prevent the mere possibility of being attacked....in fucking Wisconsin.

What are they going to do, burn the cornfields down?

If you actually look at what the sheeple are asking for in plain speech....

"You MUST prevent another terrorist attack at all costs!"

...its really nothing more than wishful thinking. No amount of constitutional concession could ever 100% guarantee that the nation wont be hit again. Even if we burned the Constitution, we'd still be vulnerable.

I just wish people would have more backbone in all facets of life. Its like people are born without a requisite spine anymore. Bunch of whining little babies hoping someone else takes care of them.

Fuck the terrorists. Fuck all 200,000 of them.

One quarter million people dictating how the world's strongest nation goes about its business is fucking pathetic.

Blow a building up, you cocksucker. We'll build a new one.

As a side note, Im not against the increased security of mass travel or import/export control. Thats cool. I understand.

But all new policies and bullshit wars loosely based on alleged ties to kinda-terrorists that we sort-of used to do regular business with in the past?!

What the fuck is wrong with people when they muddy the waters with bullshit, blogosphere rhetoric in an effort to either denounce or assert the country's direction?!

WTF is wrong with people?! In poor communities that have gang problems in Detroit, the good people of that neighborhood dont cower in a corner and tread lightly hoping the police deal with the problem. No, they organize nightly walks on weekends and holidays composed of 100s of good people just to monitor and show a presence. The gangs get scared because they cant do business anymore under the scrutiny of the PEOPLE. Not the government or law enforcement, just PEOPLE.

Their is in immeasurably acute strength in numbers. Come together and declare "I will not change my life because some micro-size douchebags have it out for me and my country!'

God sakes! Grow the fuck up!

[ggoose25]

Fuck the terrorists. Fuck all 200,000 of them.

One quarter million people dictating how the world's strongest nation goes about its business is fucking pathetic.

Blow a building up, you cocksucker. We'll build a new one. .

Their is in immeasurably acute strength in numbers. Come together and declare "I will not change my life because some micro-size douchebags have it out for me and my country!'

God sakes! Grow the fuck up!


:clap

And by giving into the fear the terrorists hope to provoke, they have won. They win if we live in fear. They win if we corrupt our politics, and give up the freedoms that make our nation unique. People who use fear-mongering as a means to an end are only aiding the terrorists in the long run.

The best way to say fuck you to every douchebag Osama wannabe is to say we are not going to let your hate control us.

[ggoose25]

I thought this was relevant to the thread
---------------------------------

Michelle Obama embraces her husband's campaign
August 16, 2007
The Obama family on the campaign trail.

WASHINGTON (CNN) — Michelle Obama told Iowa voters Thursday that her desire not to have her children grow up in a "fear" based society was enough for her to fully embrace her husband's quest for White House.

“The reason why I said yes was because I am tired of being afraid," she told voters at a campaign stop in Council Bluffs. "I am tired of living in a country where every decision that we’ve made over the last 10 years wasn’t for something but it was because people told us we have to fear something.”

“I am so tired of fear and I don’t want my girls to live in a country, in a world based on fear,” she added.

This is the latest insight Obama has given about supporting her husband's, Illinois Sen. Barack Obama's, bid for the Democratic presidential nomination.

The senator's wife, who has taken on an important surrogate role in the campaign, appeared with him in this western Iowa town and introduced him to supporters.

“Whenever I get in front of an audience, I get pumped up because I’m very passionate about this race," she said. "I’m passionate about my husband in this race because I know that and I’m trying to convey to all of you that there is something very special about this man."

Video (http://video.msn.com/v/us/msnbc.htm?f=00&g=d9f89ce3-95e7-4114-9c99-b691d34c90bd&p=Source_Hardball&t=c1150&rf=http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036697/&fg=)

[Yonivore]

Do you think its possible that the culmination of this country's efforts in the WoT are just a farce in an effort to achieve any number of political and financial goals while in the same breath keeping the dumbed-down American public complicit under a veil of fear?
No.

[braeden0613]

Excellent post. Its my exact sentiment. I find it disturbing that so many people are willing, even begging the government to do something, ANYTHING to prevent the mere possibility of being attacked....in fucking Wisconsin.

What are they going to do, burn the cornfields down?

If you actually look at what the sheeple are asking for in plain speech....

"You MUST prevent another terrorist attack at all costs!"

...its really nothing more than wishful thinking. No amount of constitutional concession could ever 100% guarantee that the nation wont be hit again. Even if we burned the Constitution, we'd still be vulnerable.

I just wish people would have more backbone in all facets of life. Its like people are born without a requisite spine anymore. Bunch of whining little babies hoping someone else takes care of them.

Fuck the terrorists. Fuck all 200,000 of them.

One quarter million people dictating how the world's strongest nation goes about its business is fucking pathetic.

Blow a building up, you cocksucker. We'll build a new one.

As a side note, Im not against the increased security of mass travel or import/export control. Thats cool. I understand.

But all new policies and bullshit wars loosely based on alleged ties to kinda-terrorists that we sort-of used to do regular business with in the past?!

What the fuck is wrong with people when they muddy the waters with bullshit, blogosphere rhetoric in an effort to either denounce or assert the country's direction?!

WTF is wrong with people?! In poor communities that have gang problems in Detroit, the good people of that neighborhood dont cower in a corner and tread lightly hoping the police deal with the problem. No, they organize nightly walks on weekends and holidays composed of 100s of good people just to monitor and show a presence. The gangs get scared because they cant do business anymore under the scrutiny of the PEOPLE. Not the government or law enforcement, just PEOPLE.

Their is in immeasurably acute strength in numbers. Come together and declare "I will not change my life because some micro-size douchebags have it out for me and my country!'

God sakes! Grow the fuck up!
:clap :clap Great post. It all comes down to what you said in your first post, dont ever trust the government. The people get things done, not bureaucrats.

[PixelPusher]

The founders of the War on Terror (heretofore referred as WoT) are still using its weight behind their ulterior motives. But not for long. No indeed, some other political think-tank is already brainstorming a way to use this new ride as a means to an end for their agenda.

Democrats are salivating at the chance to put their puppet behind the Presidents desk so he can use all the cool new powers and tools that Bush Jr. has passed as necessary.

Republicans want to refine their approach with their toy as well. Who knows what some think-tanks are devising under the guise of security. I have only my imagination which seems pretty limited in the face of the actual reality these tyrants are capable of.
I'm gonna hold on to this:
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a394/jamackey/chenhillr.gif

...I have a feeling I'm going to be posting it a lot 2, 3, 4 years from now as all the Righties who currently worship at the altar of "a unitary executive" are struck with the epiphany that unfettered executive authority is antithetical to the American way of life.

[sabar]

Do you think its possible that the culmination of this country's efforts in the WoT are just a farce in an effort to achieve any number of political and financial goals while in the same breath keeping the dumbed-down American public complicit under a veil of fear?100% no doubt about it, both political parties are (and have been) salivating at using the WoT as a way to gain power. Power both in the office, over people, military power, and global power. The Yoni's of the world that actually think the executive branch cares about the constituancy are so dillusional it's scary that they'll vote so blindly. The power wielded by the executive is disconnecting the government from the branch of government that is supposed to allow us the people to control our fate. But then again, aren't we screwed either way?

One way, you got the executive just sending us whatever way it wants to and using shady espionage on it's own citizens. On the other hand, even if congress held more power, people (henceforth, sheeple) are voting on anything that is tough on terror. People think that it is so real, that it is so close. But it isn't. And even if it was, who cares if 30 people in the States die every few years in some obscure bombing? I have a better chance of dying in a car accident on any given day or being struck by lightning than being a victim of terror. I'm more likely to lose a relative to Iraq than one to terror.

No doubt that fear is driving this current political era, and the funny thing is when the executive becomes democrat in 2008, the GOP is going to be whining at the top of it's lungs about the power it abuses while we are still in Iraq.

[smeagol]

corso says "terrorists" are somewhat organized criminals that only achieve effectiveness when the us govt allows them to
Corso is peeing outside the potty

[BradLohaus]

He always said, "Dont trust the government."

Smart man. My dad used to say pretty much the same thing.

There's a book called Tragedy and Hope that was written by a Georgetwon prof. named Carroll Quigley. Clinton met him when he was at Georgetown, and when he became president he called Quigley his mentor. In the last chapter or so of the 1300 page book he basically says "yes, there is an elite in the US and Europe that meet in groups like the Round Table and the CFR, and yes they have an agenda for the world that includes ever more globalization, and yes they believe that the elite should run the world, but these are all good things. Trust me, I know, because I speak with them, and I tell them they should just be more open about it." (<That was a long paraphrase based on the parts I have read, BTW)

Here's the Amazon page with a few reviews on it.
http://www.amazon.com/Tragedy-Hope-Carroll-Quigley/dp/0026001306


The National parties and their presidential candidates, with the
Eastern Establishment assiduously fostering the process behind the
scenes, moved closer together and nearly met in the center with almost
identical candidates and platforms although the process was concealed,
as much as possible, by the revival of obsolescent or meaningless war
cries and slogans.

The two parties should be almost identical so that the American
people can "throw the rascals out" at any election without leading to
any profound or extensive shifts in policy. The policies that are
vital and necessary for America are no longer subjects of significant
disagreement, but are disputable only in details of procedure,
priority, or method: we must remain strong, continue to function as a
great World power in cooperation with other Powers, avoid high-level
war, keep the economy moving, help other countries do the same,
provide the basic social necessities for all our citizens, open up
opportunities for social shifts for those willing to work to achieve
them, and defend the basic Western outlook of diversity, pluralism,
cooperation,and the rest of it, as already described.
Either party in office becomes in time corrupt, tired,
unenterprising and vigorless. Then it should be possible to replace it
every four years by the other party which will be none of these things
but will still pursue, with new vigor, approximately the same basic
policies.

Here's another quote from the book from Amazon:


I know of the operations of this network because I have studied it for twenty years and was permitted for two years, in the early 1960's, to examine its papers and secret records. I have no aversion to it or to most of its aims and have, for much of my life, been close to it and to many of its instruments. I have objected, both in the past and recently, to a few of its policies...but in general my chief difference of opinion is that it wishes to remain unknown, and I believe its role in history is significant enough to be known.

And it's not just Clinton; the top republicans are all in these groups as well. Nothing of any major consequence relating to the general direction of the country will ever change as long as they are in power. The government will get bigger and more powerful, and globalization will move forward, with this network of elites getting more and more power. That's the plan, at least, and this guy Quigley came right out and wrote about it!


This isnt about Republican/Democrat, its about the way of the world. :clap