Parker is firing 3's in France all the way!!!

[le13]

Hey Guys::

I am a french spurs fan and you will get a big surprise for the coming season!!

YOu can believe me; I have been watching tony during the last 4 games in France and this guy is firing 3's all over the court.. He is amazing!!!

YOu will not complain anymore about Tony's not able to shoot 3!!

:elephant

[thispego]

sweet

[Trainwreck2100]

Fiba's threes are not the same as NBA's threes

[hater]

is he making them?

I don't think anyone complained he doesn't shoot 3. why would he? we have plenty 3 pt shooter. this would be bad IMO

[ca®lo]

if he makes em.. no one will complain.. if he doesnt.. everyone will bitch about it ;)

[MaNuMaNiAc]

If Tony can develop the three, he will be unguardable, period. The problem with this scenario is that I don't think we can afford him trying a lot of threes if he's not a high percentage three point shooter. Ofcourse, it never hurts to have another three point threat.

[Solid D]

Tony started early by shooting the 3 well in the playoffs, particularly the Finals, remember? He actually said in the post game interviews that Pop had told him he could shoot the threes next season but "I started early." A couple of the threes were huge.

Thanks for the heads-up and report le13!

[urunobili]

is he making them?

I don't think anyone complained he doesn't shoot 3. why would he? we have plenty 3 pt shooter. this would be bad IMO

yeah i don;t welcome this news...

[Darkwaters]

If Tony can develop the three, he will be unguardable, period. The problem with this scenario is that I don't think we can afford him trying a lot of threes if he's not a high percentage three point shooter. Ofcourse, it never hurts to have another three point threat.

I don't think the goal was ever to make him an outside shooter first and slasher second. But having the ability to hit the open 3 makes him that much more difficult to defend. The opponent will have to pick their poison and either play him close, leaving more opportunity for him to blow by them, or playing off of him and allowing him to rain down downtown. Most likely what will happen is that defenses will play somewhere in the middle...which still makes it easier to slash for him.

Regardless, giving Tony another viable offensive skill is never bad. And if he can become a decent 3 point shooter it will likely mean that his production will still be noteworthy even when his body starts to slow down in his later years.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Woo. :smokin If he develops a decent 3point shot he can average 25 ppg.

[2centsworth]

I get pissed when he shoots too many 3s. Guy is unstoppable to the basket. No need to change his game all that much.

[phxspurfan]

This is great for Tony. I hope he can continue to develop his jumpshot so he can not take as many crazy falls. He will probably be able to extend his career a few years if the J works :]

[Kori Ellis]

Well he's not going to just stand behind the line and launch threes and forget to drive. :lol I can't get how any Spurs fan would be upset that he's developing a 3-pointer. This will only open up things more for him when defenses pack the lane.

This is something the Spurs and Tony have said that he would be adding to his arsenal next.

It's a good thing.

[2centsworth]

Well he's not going to just stand behind the line and launch threes and forget to drive. :lol I can't get how any Spurs fan would be upset that he's developing a 3-pointer. This will only open up things more for him when defenses pack the lane.

This is something the Spurs and Tony have said that he would be adding to his arsenal next.

It's a good thing.
you act like he's never been criticized in the past (2yrs ago) for settling too much for the jump shot. I won't go over board and say he's going to ruin his game, but it's something I would look for.

[Kori Ellis]

you act like he's never been criticized in the past (2yrs ago) for settling too much for the jump shot. I won't go over board and say he's going to ruin his game, but it's something I would look for.

Two years ago is a long time ago in Tony's maturity.

[2centsworth]

Two years ago is a long time ago in Tony's maturity.
He's riding very high right now which is also dangerous. No such thing as the perfect ball player. Tony has his weaknesses too and one of those weaknesses has been decision making.

[BeerIsGood!]

I thought his 3 shot looked pretty good in the Finals on the biggest NBA stage. If you can knock 'em down there you can knock 'em down anywhere. TP will never be a big 3 pt gunner, he'll be a situational shooter with the ability to knock down the 3 when necessary.

[Kori Ellis]

He's riding very high right now which is also dangerous. No such thing as the perfect ball player. Tony has his weaknesses too and one of those weaknesses has been decision making.

Eh... I'm not that worried about it. The Spurs asked him to develop a 3 point shot, Chip's been helping him develop a 3 point shot, and he's developing one.

I'll wait for the results.

[Solid D]

Too many kids today just practice shooting threes and dunks (either with a lowered rim or if they have hops, standard height dunks). Players should establish their game inside and mid-range, first, and then work their way out...just like you should do when you first warm up, "around the world" style.

Frankly, I'm glad Tony's working his way out farther but I'm also glad he didn't start at the arc. That may be the Chip Engeland approach for all we know.

[2centsworth]

that's why I said the following
I get pissed when he shoots too many 3s. Guy is unstoppable to the basket. No need to change his game all that much.

translated: don't shoot too many 3s. Shoot just enough to open up the lane. No need to change all that much.

[AFBlue]

Tony may only be 25 years old, but he's already been in the league 6 years. While his speed and ability to finish will continue to be weapons over the next few years, it certainly bodes well for his long-term future that he's developing a consistent 3pt shot.

Bottom Line: This is good news for now and great news for the future.

[ggoose25]

Why hate on Tony for developing a 3 pt shot?

He's not over stretching his abilities, he's being smart.

He knows he won't be fast forever. It's better to have a huge arsenal of weapons at his disposal so that when his athletic ability starts to fade he can still be effective.

[picnroll]

If defenders can't go under the screen on high picks set for Parker they're pretty well screwed.

[Solid D]

Layup, Free Throw, Jumper, 3-point Jumper...next is The Granny.

http://www.kidzworld.com/img/upload/article/24319/a143i0_zbb.jpg

[BeerIsGood!]

What, couldn't find a pic of Rick Barry?

[Darkwaters]

Layup, Free Throw, Jumper, 3-point Jumper...next is The Granny.

http://www.kidzworld.com/img/upload/article/24319/a143i0_zbb.jpg

So what comes after the granny free throw? The granny 3 pointer?

[ducks]

Well he's not going to just stand behind the line and launch threes and forget to drive. :lol I can't get how any Spurs fan would be upset that he's developing a 3-pointer. This will only open up things more for him when defenses pack the lane.

This is something the Spurs and Tony have said that he would be adding to his arsenal next.

It's a good thing.
spur fans like to bitch on tp for everything
if he can shot the three it will open things up more for manu and duncan

[Darkwaters]

spur fans like to bitch on tp for everything
if he can shot the three it will open things up more for manu and duncan

Agreed. How can you bitch on Tony after last season? Especially his finals performance. The guy was downright clutch. He was unstoppable while driving and hit some big tres down the stretch.

[Solid D]

What, couldn't find a pic of Rick Barry?

Rick was too easy and not funny enough for me.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

seriously, who's bitching here? I haven't seen anybody bitch so far

[JPB]

FIBA 3 point line : 20' 6.25" (6.25 meters)
NBA 3 point line : 23'9" (7.24 meters) (22' on the sidelines (6.7 meters))

But it's true the last 6 games, TP is shooting lights out, sometimes way beyond the 3 pt line. If he actually has the green light next season, I expect a lot more trees from him. If he makes them : TP for MVP...

[2centsworth]

seriously, who's bitching here? I haven't seen anybody bitch so far
if you don't have knee pads on you're bitching.

[pad300]

Layup, Free Throw, Jumper, 3-point Jumper...next is The Granny.


Nope, next is the sky hook...

[ducks]

Nope, next is the sky hook...
WRONG
the dunk

[Hoy]

What parker does isn't a dunk.
It is a dunk-lite.
I call it doink. More formally, a doinky-dink.

It can be embarassing when a Spurs dunk. What with Timmy and Butler keep bouncing off the rim.
And of course that is the real reason why Butler is traded. Spurs are embarassed by his clunks - dunk messed - so they got rid of him at all cost. Which explains why Scola was included. How else can you explain the trade?

Timmy better watch out. No more clunks.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Broken record, I know, but I think people take Tony Parker the player for granted.....if he is already developing a consistent proper mechanics three, at this age and fresh off of a finals mvp award, he is going to be THE benchmark for all scoring pointguards without question.
How can anyone forget he hit very timely threes in the finals?

If he adds this to his game we're looking at a Duncan2003esque playoff performance in 2008.

[ShoogarBear]

is he making them? Dammit, there's always a catch.

[Switchman]

I would love for Tony to be known for his 3's for nothing else other than the fact that defenders will have to think about guarding him close at the arc. 1/2 second of hesitation and tony will be tear dropping them out of the playoffs.

[Lady M]

FIBA 3 point line : 20' 6.25" (6.25 meters)
NBA 3 point line : 23'9" (7.24 meters) (22' on the sidelines (6.7 meters))

But it's true the last 6 games, TP is shooting lights out, sometimes way beyond the 3 pt line. If he actually has the green light next season, I expect a lot more trees from him. If he makes them : TP for MVP...
I saw all the 6 games (i was in strasbourg and Coubertin)
few shot was like NBA shot

Tony made play all the players sometimes with alley hoop :lol
Tony was very impressive

[ShoogarBear]

If Tony starts hitting lob passes, that would be even more amazing than him hitting threes.

[RC's Boss]

Well he's not going to just stand behind the line and launch threes and forget to drive. :lol I can't get how any Spurs fan would be upset that he's developing a 3-pointer. This will only open up things more for him when defenses pack the lane.

This is something the Spurs and Tony have said that he would be adding to his arsenal next.

It's a good thing.
I feel you! I've always said if he could shoot from the outside like Nash and bibby, he would be unstoppable. Get up on him, he'll blow by you. Lay off him, and watch the rain come down. Plus, defensive strategies that consist of packing the lane 'ala Pistons in the '05 finals and Lakers in the '04 semis would become an exercise in futility :elephant :clap

[ploto]

Even Rasho makes 3's in FIBA!

[T Park]

:lol

I see the Parker haters have come out from the holes, and are starting to stretch and warm up.

[T Park]

Even Rasho makes 3's in FIBA


Wich proves how phony FIBA is.

[z0sa]

parker was hitting threes in the first two games of the '04 semis in case everyone forgot that.

he just lost his confidence. Hes regained confidence in his shot, but now we have to hope he understands that passing is an essential part of basketball

[Reckless28]

good for parker. if he starts making 3's and is a little more consistant with his mid-range jumper, he will start to move in the talk for MVP. COOL.

[whottt]

Am I the only one that watched Spurs games the first 2 years of Parker's career? He took threes...and he was decent at it...at least as good at it as guys like Kobe and AI.

He dropped 4 threes on Gary Payton in his first ever playoff game as a 19 year old.

He has improved after not shooting threes much the past 2 years...high PCT? I believe he shot over 40% from 3 this past season.

[polandprzem]

All I want to say is the developing shot is freaking difficult thing

Tony did better then I espected. First the jumpers (which at the begining of his career were almost everytime wide open as the defenders let him alone - esp. 2004 playoffs).
Now - last year he started to extend his range and now to the 3point line which is not a big problem to him anymore.

If you got that you;'ve got better inside-outside play and 4down as well


senks

[colargol]

TP Stat from France versus Portugal, Tcheque and Russes

FgM/FgA:18/31 3FgM/3FgA:9/13 FtM/FtA:8/11 St:8 Rbd:10 Ast:16 To:5

[anakha]

parker was hitting threes in the first two games of the '04 semis in case everyone forgot that.

he just lost his confidence. Hes regained confidence in his shot,


Um, not quite.

He was told to take it to the rim as much as possible when Chip came onboard, and to take only a few outside shots while his shooting form was reworked. The Spurs have reaped the fruits of that labor in these past playoffs series.

It wasn't a question of confidence, more a question of shooting mechanics. Tony technically wasn't greenlighted to take those threes in the Finals, but he had the confidence to step up and make them anyways.


but now we have to hope he understands that passing is an essential part of basketball

Oy vey. :rolleyes

[anakha]

3FgM/3FgA:9/13

Sweet. :toast


FtM/FtA:8/11

Not so sweet, but still an improvement from a couple of years back. Gotta keep working on those, buddy.

[RC's Boss]

TP Stat from France versus Portugal, Tcheque and Russes

FgM/FgA:18/31 3FgM/3FgA:9/13 FtM/FtA:8/11 St:8 Rbd:10 Ast:16 To:5
It may be FIBA, but that is one helluva stat line.

[stéphane]

http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=mdFuyTvIRWU

quality isn't good and notice the missed FT :p
parker sux

[urunobili]

spur fans like to bitch on tp for everything
if he can shot the three it will open things up more for manu and duncan
i think you and every other Parker Nosers should remember this was THE FIRST Finals series he actually appeared from the three rings he has... have everyone forgotten hoe BADLY he was benched by Claxton on 2003 and his mid-level series against Detroit where manu had to handle the ball more than ever?
this series was great yes... but you should be a lil bit more careful... :bang

[mathbzh]

i think you and every other Parker Nosers should remember this was THE FIRST Finals series he actually appeared from the three rings he has... have everyone forgotten hoe BADLY he was benched by Claxton on 2003 and his mid-level series against Detroit where manu had to handle the ball more than ever?
this series was great yes... but you should be a lil bit more careful... :bang

In 2003 Parker was 21. You shouldn't be surprised he was not ready for the Finals. Given his age I think he had a very good playoff run.
In 2005 defenses focused on stopping Parker because his lack of a jumpshot maked him the weak link.
He worked hard on his weakness and finally had a great final.
He is now 25 and is ready to enter his prime.
I don't know what more you could have expect from him.

[le13]

Thanks for all your comments guys!! and girls!!!

One more thing!! Do not under-estimate the FIBA. Do I have to remember some of you that the World champion is from Europe (the 2 finalists)..And most of these players are playing Fiba rules all the year!!

Anyway, do not make me wrong.. NBA still the best for me!!

Just not under-estimate it!!

[Indazone]

I dropped Tony off my fantasy team last year cause he couldn't hit the 3-ball. What did I replace him with? Gasp..and I hate to admit this...Jason Terry.

[Oh, Gee!!]

he needs to save some of those for a real game

[ducks]

i think you and every other Parker Nosers should remember this was THE FIRST Finals series he actually appeared from the three rings he has... have everyone forgotten hoe BADLY he was benched by Claxton on 2003 and his mid-level series against Detroit where manu had to handle the ball more than ever?
this series was great yes... but you should be a lil bit more careful... :bang
dude he was the finals mvp after the first three games
kidd was saying he was not that good at that age

dude was getting a big head

speedy has done nothing since or ever will
speedy and tp should never be brought up in the same sentence

[ducks]

i think you and every other Parker Nosers should remember this was THE FIRST Finals series he actually appeared from the three rings he has... have everyone forgotten hoe BADLY he was benched by Claxton on 2003 and his mid-level series against Detroit where manu had to handle the ball more than ever?
this series was great yes... but you should be a lil bit more careful... :bang
he can not change the fact he is from france

[JPB]

If Tony starts hitting lob passes, that would be even more amazing than him hitting threes.

That's the major difference with french NT's TP and Spurs TP. He's tempting a lot more spectacular and athletic plays with teamates.

That's because there are very athletic and high-flying players around him.

Ok, it's preparation games and he wants to please the crowd but still, you really can see the difference (even if he's missing a few of them cos he's not used to it). When given the opportunity he can also play that way.

The half-court alley-hoop for Boris with the reverse dunk was sick !

[Avitus1]

Its going to be great to see that 3 ball shaking things up.

[ShoogarBear]

The half-court alley-hoop for Boris with the reverse dunk was sick !What? You have a vid link for that?

[Freeze]

What? You have a vid link for that?


http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=mdFuyTvIRWU

quality isn't good and notice the missed FT :p
parker sux

[stéphane]

What? You have a vid link for that?

I'm officialy the invisible poster :dizzy

[jaespur21]

i used your link steph dont cry. it look like the pass was from halfcourtish. not bad tony. good to see that he has came so far and keeps growing

[z0sa]

Um, not quite.

He was told to take it to the rim as much as possible when Chip came onboard, and to take only a few outside shots while his shooting form was reworked. The Spurs have reaped the fruits of that labor in these past playoffs series.

No shit. But why would they have changed his shot and gave him the red light on threes if he had been making them? Because he wasn't. Because he lost his confidence. Why can't you draw i guess you'd say "preclusions" from my conclusions?



It wasn't a question of confidence, more a question of shooting mechanics. Tony technically wasn't greenlighted to take those threes in the Finals, but he had the confidence to step up and make them anyways.

His shooting form was terrible, but if it goes in, it goes in. He had lost his confidence in his shot, especially after the 04' semis.

Get this: TP shot 40% from downtown in the 04 playoffs (17-43). With his shitty shot selection and shitty shooting form, thats a damn good percentage don't you think. The problem was, people began to realize he didn't have confidence in his jumpshot. When someone is daring you to shoot, its definitely playing on whether you are confident or not in your shot.

In summary, you are wrong, I am right.

[Freeze]

No shit. But why would they have changed his shot and gave him the red light on threes if he had been making them? Because he wasn't. Because he lost his confidence. Why can't you draw i guess you'd say "preclusions" from my conclusions?



His shooting form was terrible, but if it goes in, it goes in. He had lost his confidence in his shot, especially after the 04' semis.

Get this: TP shot 40% from downtown in the 04 playoffs (17-43). With his shitty shot selection and shitty shooting form, thats a damn good percentage don't you think. The problem was, people began to realize he didn't have confidence in his jumpshot. When someone is daring you to shoot, its definitely playing on whether you are confident or not in your shot.

In summary, you are wrong, I am right.

nope TP has always said that Chip was working first on the mechanics and secondly on the confidence : change the positions of the hands on the ball, learn a new gesture, and being able to reproduce it every time he wants as a robot. This way even after a miss, he can shoot again without thinking about the miss.

About the 3's, Chip's work is 3 years process :
1st y/ learn new gesture and practice FT
2nd y/ mid-range jumper
3rd y/ 3's

In his first seasons in NBA TP was allowed to take as many 3's as he wanted, but since Chip came in town (and because many players could hit those better than him) Pop asked him to stop and gave him a single 3 pts shoot per game until chip says he's ready to take more.
But fact is TP's jumper was so good in the finals that pop allowed him more :clap



http://www.nba.com/spurs/news/quotes_070612.html


Q. You're not known as a three-point shooter, but you hit some clutch ones and you hit a big one tonight. Can you talk about that?

TONY PARKER: I always try to squeeze one or two (smiling). Coach Pop doesn't like me to shoot threes. But he told me next year I can go back and shoot threes like my first three years, so I decided to start a little bit in the playoffs (laughter). I know he was screaming when I took it. It's one of those kind of shots, like, "Nooooo," but it was all right.

[z0sa]

HOLY shit, im talking PRE-CHIP here. he shot from the outside because he was confident; he lost his confidence as defenders began to simply lay off him, pop brings in chip ...

do we understand?

[lotr1trekkie]

Based on number of attempts Rick Barry is the greatest free throw shooter of all time. John Wooden also endorsed the style when his players couldn't hit 80% of their shots. Any NBA players who can't hit 80% should try it. Technically speaking the underhand tecnique is vastly superior to the overhand freethrow for anyone who can't hit. Ball rotates backwarda after it hits the rim. Arch is higher. Even if the ball isn't swiss it bounce back into the basket. Wilt tried it but couldn't master it. Free throw shooting is about touch not strength. Wilt stilled improved his numbers using it. For those of you under 40 you probably also believe LT is better the Jim Brown. Bonds is better than Mays. Iverson is better that West etc. Seeing these players in the flesh is essentially important to making decisions.

[ShoogarBear]

I'm officialy the invisible poster :dizzySorry, I thought your link had to do with hitting threes.

[anakha]

HOLY shit, im talking PRE-CHIP here. he shot from the outside because he was confident; he lost his confidence as defenders began to simply lay off him, pop brings in chip ...

do we understand?

Whoa, easy there, Seabiscuit.

Relax, we're not trying to shoot down your point. I'm just saying that it seems to be more a question of shooting mechanics that caused Tony's percentages to dip between 03-04 and 04-05 (Chip came in during the summer of 05).

Tony, pre-Chip, was always a bit of a streaky shooter. While he was on a hot streak during the 04 playoffs, it doesn't change the fact that he's an off-and-on kinda guy when it comes to that perimeter J.

During the 05 season and playoffs, his J really was mostly in the OFF position, but he still took a good number of them (if you'll look at his playoffs 3FGA stats, from his rookie season to the 05 playoffs, he pretty much averaged 2-2.5 3FGAs per game - that 04 playoffs strikes me a a bit of an anomaly, because he WAS on a hot streak then).

If a lack of confidence in his J, as you say, was the primary cause, I would surmise that an equivalent dip in the number of perimeter shots would naturally follow. It doesn't seem to be the case here. More of the law of averages just catching up to Tony after that 04 hot streak, I'd say.

[z0sa]

Whoa, easy there, Seabiscuit.

Good way to start off an informative reply.

Not.



Relax, we're not trying to shoot down your point. I'm just saying that it seems to be more a question of shooting mechanics that caused Tony's percentages to dip between 03-04 and 04-05 (Chip came in during the summer of 05).

So, you're saying now it's "more of a question of shooting mechanics," thus implying he was also not confident, at least to some degree. Hmm, changing your story around?


It wasn't a question of confidence,

Why don't you stick to the same story, it'll make for a better argument.



Tony, pre-Chip, was always a bit of a streaky shooter. While he was on a hot streak during the 04 playoffs, it doesn't change the fact that he's an off-and-on kinda guy when it comes to that perimeter J.

OKAY, I think we all get the point here that he wasn't a great perimeter shooter. But the thing is, he WAS making them his first few years, and he WAS on a hot streak up to the Lakers series. WHAT HAPPENED? Did he get his talent stolen by the Monstars? Or are we to believe that by chance, he suddenly felt a sort of "weight of the world" type role, because teams were stopping him by just being lazy on d. He wasn't just all of a sudden red lighted; there was a reason they brought in Chip; etc etc. I dont see whats so hard to understand here: he lost his confidence in his shot, and they changed it mechanically so it was no doubt much more high percentage >>> regained confidence >>> Finals MVP.



During the 05 season and playoffs, his J really was mostly in the OFF position, but he still took a good number of them (if you'll look at his playoffs 3FGA stats, from his rookie season to the 05 playoffs, he pretty much averaged 2-2.5 3FGAs per game - that 04 playoffs strikes me a a bit of an anomaly, because he WAS on a hot streak then).

Indeed - the natural progression of a player who's lost his confidence and is trying to shoot himself back into a rhythm. Problem is, TP was never a great shooter to begin with, so it simply didn't work. Plus, there were times in '05 when his jumpshot would miraculously come back for a game or few, for example do you remember the last regular season matchup against Phoenix? Tim and Manu were both out, but Parker still kept it competitive because he was knocking down midrange jumpers left and right.



If a lack of confidence in his J, as you say, was the primary cause, I would surmise that an equivalent dip in the number of perimeter shots would naturally follow. It doesn't seem to be the case here. More of the law of averages just catching up to Tony after that 04 hot streak, I'd say.

The problem was not so much Tony as Pop. Pop didn't tell him to stop shooting those til '06 -- they were focusing on him rebuilding his jumpshot. Before then he was still letting them fly, trying to get himself into a rhythm, as I stated above. Problem? It never worked.

Fast forward to Chip, new Tony, problems solved.

[anakha]

Good way to start off an informative reply.

Not.

You really are full of sunshine and rainbows today, aren't you? Chill. :spin


So, you're saying now it's "more of a question of shooting mechanics," thus implying he was also not confident, at least to some degree. Hmm, changing your story around?

(shrugs) I gave the exact same phrase "more a question of shooting mechanics" in my first reply, so I don't really see what you're getting at here.


Why don't you stick to the same story, it'll make for a better argument.

When you first posted on this thread, the phrasing of your argument didn't include Chip in any way. My reply involving shooting mechanics (and Chip's subsequent changes to them) was based on that first reply.

You know, I could also say that you changed your story by adding the pre-Chip qualifier to your argument only after Freeze's and my reply, but that would just be quibbling.



OKAY, I think we all get the point here that he wasn't a great perimeter shooter. But the thing is, he WAS making them his first few years, and he WAS on a hot streak up to the Lakers series. WHAT HAPPENED? Did he get his talent stolen by the Monstars? Or are we to believe that by chance, he suddenly felt a sort of "weight of the world" type role, because teams were stopping him by just being lazy on d. He wasn't just all of a sudden red lighted; there was a reason they brought in Chip; etc etc. I dont see whats so hard to understand here: he lost his confidence in his shot, and they changed it mechanically so it was no doubt much more high percentage >>> regained confidence >>> Finals MVP.

Okay, let me clarify my argument (and just because I like debates):

What I'm getting at is that Tony's shot, because of his faulty mechanics, can lead him on some VERY hot and cold streaks, which can last for several games straight. Early in the 04-05 season (if I remember correctly), that was such the case, where his FG%s were REALLY down for the first two weeks of the season.

Call it an unsound argument, if you will, but I think his performance after games 1 & 2 of the Lakers series was mostly a bad cold streak.

The reason I brought up the FGA numbers is that part of my assertion is that his perimeter shot attempts have been relatively consistent, regardless of whether his shot is on or not. For me, that sounds like a player who, regardless of his stroke being on or not, feels he can make his outside shots. That doesn't sound like a confidence issue to me.



Indeed - the natural progression of a player who's lost his confidence and is trying to shoot himself back into a rhythm. Problem is, TP was never a great shooter to begin with, so it simply didn't work. Plus, there were times in '05 when his jumpshot would miraculously come back for a game or few, for example do you remember the last regular season matchup against Phoenix? Tim and Manu were both out, but Parker still kept it competitive because he was knocking down midrange jumpers left and right.

Yeah, I get your point here. It's cool.

My main issue here is that - shooting oneself back to rhythm is more the domain of players whose skillsets and roles revolve around outside shooting. That's never been Tony's role on this team, and he doesn't depend on his outside shooting as his main offensive weapon.

Going back to my main point above - the way I see it, he still takes those shots because he sees them as makeable, not because he feels he needs to get back into a shooting rhythm.



The problem was not so much Tony as Pop. Pop didn't tell him to stop shooting those til '06 -- they were focusing on him rebuilding his jumpshot. Before then he was still letting them fly, trying to get himself into a rhythm, as I stated above. Problem? It never worked.

Fast forward to Chip, new Tony, problems solved.

If it really was more of a confidence issue, I'd say he would have cut down on his outside shots even before he was redlighted by Pop. His ability to get past his man and into the paint is a more potent weapon than his jumpshot, and he himself knows it as well. I guess I don't see why he would need to keep shooting the J when he knows his game doesn't necessarily depend on it.

Hey, I got no problem with being proven wrong on this one if it really isn't the case. (shrugs) Just killing time until the season starts. :spin

[v2freak]

If his 3 point shot has become consistent, he deserves mad props - but quite a bit of that credit should go to Chip E as well

[mathbzh]

His ability to get past his man and into the paint is a more potent weapon than his jumpshot, and he himself knows it as well. I guess I don't see why he would need to keep shooting the J when he knows his game doesn't necessarily depend on it.


I agree with most of your argument but not totaly with this one.
Back in the pre-CHIP time, Team were able to deny access to the paint to Tony (when they focused on this). He was already very good in the paint but not yet deadly. In these games (or series) he needed another weapon. So when he was opened he took the J... without much success when he was cold.
In 05-06 he overcome this problem
I believe the only reason why Tony need a J is to force teams to defend high on him.

[anakha]

I agree with most of your argument but not totaly with this one.
Back in the pre-CHIP time, Team were able to deny access to the paint to Tony (when they focused on this). He was already very good in the paint but not yet deadly. In these games (or series) he needed another weapon. So when he was opened he took the J... without much success when he was cold.
In 05-06 he overcome this problem
I believe the only reason why Tony need a J is to force teams to defend high on him.

Yeah, you make a good point here.

The difference then in Tony's effectiveness against different teams was how successfully they would be able to keep him out of the paint. Should they be able to do so effectively, that's when he would need his J to be on to stretch out the defense.

It was no secret even before that Tony was first and foremost a slasher, so all opposing teams wanted to take that away from him. Some were more successful than others, some failed miserably at it.

My main argument against your point would probably be that situations where Tony was effectively shut out of the paint and had to exclusively rely on his J were the minority in both the 04 and 05 seasons, compared to situations where Tony would still find ways to the rim despite the opposing team knowing his strength and taking steps to work against that. More often than not, he would still be able to play to his strength.

To sum it up, he would need his J as his main weapon only on a situational basis, while his bread and butter (and always should be his first option, scoring-wise) would be his ability to get to the rim.

[TheAuthority]

How about learning to feed Timmy on the pick and roll like Nash does to Amare?

[SAGambler]

If TP can just hit a couple of 3s a game, and start averaging about 8 - 10 assists, he is going to become the premier point in the game, and be high on the list for MVP.

I just look forward to Tony picking up his game and getting better and better every year. I just hate the day will probably come when we no longer have Tony. But until then, I'll just sit back and enjoy watching him eat up defenses around the league.

[bigfish22]

NBA Dimensions

http://hoopedia.nba.com/images/6/68/NBA_Court_Dimensions.gif


Fiba Dimensions

http://hoopedia.nba.com/images/4/44/FIBACourtDiagram.jpg



Fiba v NBA
Length of game
Fiba: 4 x 10 minutes
NBA: 4 x 12 minutes
Court dimensions
Fiba: 28m x 15m
NBA: 28.65m x 15.24m
Three-point line
Fiba: 6.25m
NBA: 7.24m
Number of referees
Fiba: Two
NBA: Three
Second clock
Fiba: 30 seconds
NBA: 24 seconds
Fouls permitted
Fiba: Five per player
NBA: Six per player
Timeouts allowed
Fiba: Five per game
2 in 1st half; 3 in 2nd half
NBA: Seven per game

[SpursIndonesia]

i think you and every other Parker Nosers should remember this was THE FIRST Finals series he actually appeared from the three rings he has... have everyone forgotten hoe BADLY he was benched by Claxton on 2003 and his mid-level series against Detroit where manu had to handle the ball more than ever?
this series was great yes... but you should be a lil bit more careful... :bang

So what ? Parker nosers are sure as hell not having bigger noses than Ginobili nosers. :lol

[z0sa]

You really are full of sunshine and rainbows today, aren't you? Chill. :spin

Always.


(shrugs) I gave the exact same phrase "more a question of shooting mechanics" in my first reply, so I don't really see what you're getting at here.


It wasn't a question of confidence,

Do your own fingers lie? You say it was "more" of a mechanics issue, but you say it in the type of way, especially following this quote, that implies it is "completely based upon mechanics." Of course, I'm putting words in your mouth, but that's the way you make it seem.



When you first posted on this thread, the phrasing of your argument didn't include Chip in any way. My reply involving shooting mechanics (and Chip's subsequent changes to them) was based on that first reply.

You know, I could also say that you changed your story by adding the pre-Chip qualifier to your argument only after Freeze's and my reply, but that would just be quibbling.

ahem ... I thought it was clear whenever I said he regained confidence in his jumpshot, that obviously it had come from the tremendous practice he had put into it WITH CHIP. I think that pretty much goes without saying, in fact. So in other words, I simply referred to Chip as any spur fan would. I don't need to mention him and TP's shot in every other sentence so everyone understands I'm talking about their correlation; why you ask? because everyone associates the two. So in fact, that wouldn't be quibbling, itd simply be stupid.




Okay, let me clarify my argument (and just because I like debates):

What I'm getting at is that Tony's shot, because of his faulty mechanics, can lead him on some VERY hot and cold streaks, which can last for several games straight. Early in the 04-05 season (if I remember correctly), that was such the case, where his FG%s were REALLY down for the first two weeks of the season.

Agreed, but I think the hot streaks would last a while at first, then becoming shorter and shorter until finally, his confidence completely diminished in 04-05 pretty much throughout the season.



Call it an unsound argument, if you will, but I think his performance after games 1 & 2 of the Lakers series was mostly a bad cold streak.

So a whole season more or less was one long cold streak? In a way, I agree, but not in those terms: he had simply lost his confidence. Not hard to understand after being raised up as possible HOF in the first two games of the Lakers series, and then taking the heap of blame for the next four.



The reason I brought up the FGA numbers is that part of my assertion is that his perimeter shot attempts have been relatively consistent, regardless of whether his shot is on or not. For me, that sounds like a player who, regardless of his stroke being on or not, feels he can make his outside shots. That doesn't sound like a confidence issue to me.

Man, I've already explained my arguments and why they are right to you, so let me explain again: this was primarily POP's FAULT. He didn't tell Tony to stop shooting; Tony eventually started getting the picture himself, towards the end of the season, and so did Pop.




Yeah, I get your point here. It's cool.

My main issue here is that - shooting oneself back to rhythm is more the domain of players whose skillsets and roles revolve around outside shooting. That's never been Tony's role on this team, and he doesn't depend on his outside shooting as his main offensive weapon.

Going back to my main point above - the way I see it, he still takes those shots because he sees them as makeable, not because he feels he needs to get back into a shooting rhythm.

Tony considered himself a transition three-taking highstepping spotup shooting badass more or less his first few years; I remember Pop used to light his ass up not just a few times a game. He considered himself a shooter; finally he learned the hard way in 04 that he was not, and thus ended his confidence in that certain ability.




If it really was more of a confidence issue, I'd say he would have cut down on his outside shots even before he was redlighted by Pop.

Which, if you recall correctly, he did. Pop caught it second to Parker.


His ability to get past his man and into the paint is a more potent weapon than his jumpshot, and he himself knows it as well now.

Fixed -- he used to think he could hit the jumpshot and drive the lane, when he could really only do one of those.

[anakha]

Do your own fingers lie? You say it was "more" of a mechanics issue, but you say it in the type of way, especially following this quote, that implies it is "completely based upon mechanics." Of course, I'm putting words in your mouth, but that's the way you make it seem.

Ah, I see what you were getting at. That's the main issue with text-based arguments or debates - people really have to take everything written down literally, and misphrasing or leaving something out can have many implications. I should have phrased that better. :p:


ahem ... I thought it was clear whenever I said he regained confidence in his jumpshot, that obviously it had come from the tremendous practice he had put into it WITH CHIP. I think that pretty much goes without saying, in fact. So in other words, I simply referred to Chip as any spur fan would. I don't need to mention him and TP's shot in every other sentence so everyone understands I'm talking about their correlation; why you ask? because everyone associates the two. So in fact, that wouldn't be quibbling, itd simply be stupid.

See above. What I argued against earlier is what was first written explicitly, and while your point stands, more often than not in these written formats, everything does have to be spelled out to avoid confusion.

Oh well. :spin


So a whole season more or less was one long cold streak? In a way, I agree, but not in those terms: he had simply lost his confidence. Not hard to understand after being raised up as possible HOF in the first two games of the Lakers series, and then taking the heap of blame for the next four.

True, the Lakers series was really an extreme case of fortunes for Tony. But I really don't think he was so weak mentally as to let it affect his game for a whole season. He's not exactly Nick Anderson. :lol

Agree to disagree on this one, I guess.


Man, I've already explained my arguments and why they are right to you, so let me explain again: this was primarily POP's FAULT. He didn't tell Tony to stop shooting; Tony eventually started getting the picture himself, towards the end of the season, and so did Pop.


Tony considered himself a transition three-taking highstepping spotup shooting badass more or less his first few years; I remember Pop used to light his ass up not just a few times a game. He considered himself a shooter; finally he learned the hard way in 04 that he was not, and thus ended his confidence in that certain ability.

Okay, I see what you're getting at here as well. It's just that I have a hard time reconciling that image of Tony losing confidence in his shot after the 04 playoffs with the similar number of perimeter shots he ended up taking between 04 and 05.

While it may be possible that he ended up taking less and less as the season wore on, would you be able to give me an example of games that would be able to explicitly show that his perimeter attempts (let's use 3FGA here to make it simpler) decreased as the season progressed?

[z0sa]

tbh, I'm bored with this certain topic, simply because its a moot point. TP has regained his confidence, hes hitting perimeter jumpers with reckless abandon, and he has matured as a player and perhaps, as a leader.

But when I say this, I still believe TP being the number 1 offensive option, now with the perimeter jumper too, could make his ego a little too large ... I'm hoping it doesn't.

[anakha]

tbh, I'm bored with this certain topic, simply because its a moot point. TP has regained his confidence, hes hitting perimeter jumpers with reckless abandon, and he has matured as a player and perhaps, as a leader.

But when I say this, I still believe TP being the number 1 offensive option, now with the perimeter jumper too, could make his ego a little too large ... I'm hoping it doesn't.

Amen to that. :)

Damn, even the preseason games can't come soon enough. :p: