Marbury Defends Vick

[DR WU]

MARBURY DEFENDS VICK AUG.22,2007

NEW YORK -- New York Knicks guard Stephon Marbury defended Michael Vick, calling dogfighting a sport and comparing it to hunting.

Marbury spoke Monday about the federal dogfighting conspiracy charges against Vick while promoting his basketball shoe in Albany, N.Y.

"I think it's tough," Marbury said, according to Albany TV station Capital News 9. "I think, you know, we don't say anything about people who shoot deer or shoot other animals. You know, from what I hear, dogfighting is a sport. It's just behind closed doors."

On Monday, Vick said through a lawyer that he will plead guilty to a federal charge of conspiracy to travel in interstate commerce in aid of unlawful activities and conspiracy to sponsor a dog in an animal fighting venture. He also faces possible prosecution in Virginia.

"I think it's tough that we build Michael Vick up and then we break him down," Marbury said. "I think he's one of the superb athletes, and he's a good human being. I just think that he fell into a bad situation."

Copyright 2007 by The Associated Press

[Oh, Gee!!]

I wouldn't put it past marbury to be in on the action himself

[SenorSpur]

He really should've stayed out of the verbal fray.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Good thing he'll be in France and out of the USA in 2 years.

[Spurminator]

I don't (completely) agree with him, but I'm glad he said it.

[saporvida]

personally i agree with marbury... our society is so fucked in its reasoning.

the funny thing i dont get is this... vick didnt rape little boys in church but he got in much worse trouble then those priests who did/do. i dont get it.

ps: i love dogs but come on people. open your fuckin eyes!

[samikeyp]

Hunting deer is legal. Like it or not, but it is.

Fact is that Michael Vick broke the law, period.

Whether we agree with that particular law, he still broke it and needs to be punished.

[saporvida]

Hunting deer is legal. Like it or not, but it is.

Fact is that Michael Vick broke the law, period.

Whether we agree with that particular law, he still broke it and needs to be punished.

tell that to all the potheads behind bars getting raped by known murderers.

"it's illegal" come on now... fuck the system! getting into a war without reason is illegal too but hey you don't see fuckface bush serving time do ya?

[Spurminator]

This saga has become less about Vick breaking the law and more about our bloodlust for seeing the people we worship too much in the first place get taken down.

[T Park]

Yeah us evil people are sooo horrible for thinking that a person that drowns, electrocute dogs, is horrible.


God our country is going to shit with this defending Vick.

[midgetonadonkey]

It's about gambling. The US is pissed that people were making tax free money.

[saporvida]

upper society(fucks who make the rules) wanna have their cake and eat it too.... that is why pot is illegal and booze isn't.

as for dog fighting vs deer hunting, well...

[IceColdBrewski]

3 page thread here.

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=76316&page=1&pp=26

[saporvida]

God our country is going to shit with this defending Vick.


im not defending vick... for christs sake i HATE football! but when one contradicts the other then well i cant help but question what is going down.

[leemajors]

Good thing he'll be in France and out of the USA in 2 years.
italy.

[BigBeezie]

Marbury is just another idiot...

[duncan228]

Hunting deer is legal. Like it or not, but it is.

Fact is that Michael Vick broke the law, period.

Whether we agree with that particular law, he still broke it and needs to be punished.

I'm with you.

And SenorSpur...He should have kept his mouth shut.

Any pro athlete, no matter which side they choose to support, is going to catch hell for opening their mouth.

This topic is too emotional for people to see any shade of gray. They're going to be on one side or the other.

Best to stay quiet.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Yeah us evil people are sooo horrible for thinking that a person that drowns, electrocute dogs, is horrible.


God our country is going to shit with this defending Vick.



I find myself in complete agreement with my buddy T, and that doesn't happen too often.

[Reggie Miller]

3 page thread here.

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=76316&page=1&pp=26

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Hmm, I've never seen anyone hunting set up rape stands for the deer that didn't have a certain number of points or anything like that.

Horrible analogy.

And that's not even getting into hunting being a legal and (somewhat) regulated sport, versus dog fights being very clearly illegal.

Again, horrible analogy by Marbury, and anyone supporting him.

[ducks]

It's about gambling. The US is pissed that people were making tax free money.
really dog racing they gamble

[Demo Dick Marcinko]

I posted on the other board and I wasn't going to get into it here, but some of the responses got me scratching my head:

"So I guess clubbing and stabbing the crippled dogs is just an occupational hazard? Poor Stephon must not realize that the dogs used in these events often die of blood loss, shock, dehydration, exhaustion, or infection hours or even days after the fight. Other animals are often sacrificed as well. Some owners train their dogs for fights using smaller animals such as cats, rabbits or small dogs. These "bait" animals are often stolen pets or animals obtained through "free to good home" advertisements.

Starbury's comments border on insanity. I think I preferred him when he was merely stupid."

"One doesn't have to be an animal rights person, heck to me it's not even a PETA issue. One just has to know right from wrong. Dogfighting is a sadistic "contest" in which two dogs—specifically bred, conditioned, and trained to fight—are placed in a pit (generally a small arena enclosed by plywood walls) to fight each other for the spectators' entertainment and gambling. Fights average nearly an hour in length and often last more than two hours. Dogfights end when one of the dogs will not or cannot continue. Their innate breeding won't let them quit even if they've lost eyes, disemboweled....you get the picture.

Whether the issue is dogfighting, cockfighting, bullfighting or one human being hurting another human being, wrong is wrong and the offender should be punished, celebrity or regular joe."


I'm not a hunter now, but I was when I was younger. Heck I was born in south Texas so I grew up with hunting a big part of my life. I'm not defending hunters but you gotta admit a quick kill ordinarily doesn't put the animal through extended barbaric agony.

I'm not an animal rights fanatic or a PETA card carrying member or one of those annoying Vegans. I love a good steak. Is it hypocrytical? I don't know. What I do know is that there is just something inherently revolting and repulsive about animal fighting. Before I read into this and became more informed about dogfighting, I may have been one of many who would have dismissed this as a witch hunt against a well known athlete. Not anymore.

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

Stupid thing to say. Not as stupid as starting a dog fighting ring that could cost you a couple of hundred million dollars in wages and endorsement deals, but pretty stupid.

Personally I think hunting is an odd way to waste a weekend, but a deer has at least a chance to get away.

[Shred]

Man, I had thought Stephon Marbury was an extremely intelligent, learned gentleman. Then I read this. My worldview lies shattered in a million pieces. :rolleyes

[midgetonadonkey]

really dog racing they gamble

The government also gets their cut.

[barbacoataco]

People who hunt go out of their way to kill the animal quickly and humanely. Most all the time they are also eating the animal. This is totally different than dog fighting, which is a form of animal cruelty.

[tmtcsc]

Michael Vick is going to jail for racketeering, gambling illegally and probably tax evasion. I don't think its actually illegal to kill dogs. Most sensible and humane people with a heart wouldn't do it...

Marbury is just plain stupid. That goes for anyone offering up a counter opinion or justification for what he did. He had nothing to really gain monetarily, he is part of a competitive profession (so he gets that fix from the NFL) and he had everything to lose by doing it. He had no respect for the treatment of these animals. Apparently, he didn't even want to waste a bullet on ending the suffering. Actually, he didn't want to end suffering, he just wanted to hurt and kill a dog that didn't perform well.

Could you imagine if we applied that reasoning to him ? Hey Michael, throw another pick, lose another game and we are going to drown, electrocute and beat your ass to death. He'd be a goner.

I have NO sympathy for his ignorant ass. I hope he becomes Tiny's new girlfriend. sick fuck

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Hmm, I've never seen anyone hunting set up rape stands for the deer that didn't have a certain number of points or anything like that.

Horrible analogy.

And that's not even getting into hunting being a legal and (somewhat) regulated sport, versus dog fights being very clearly illegal.

Again, horrible analogy by Marbury, and anyone supporting him.

Tons of breeders use those types of stands and they arent illegal. Ranchers cull their herds yet Vick murders dogs.

Fact is that Marbury has a point. You can go bowhunting deer for nothing other than their horns. Essentially outside of a culture preedominantly in the south americans see dogs as pets. The only issue is that not all cultures look at all animals the same. We look at cows as food for example whereas Hindus hold the animal sacred. Are they justified in trying to coopt our culture to fit their views? Why are we not decrying the eating of dogs in the Phillipines and in other regions of Asia?

Of course not and that is why I feel that we have no right to force other cultures to conform to our view of what an animals purpose is and all the while kill torture and generally abuse across the board. We as a culture still have trophy hunting, cosmetic animal testing, rodeos, dog racing and a whole slew of other things that are varying in degree of animal abuse with no real practical benefit.

It is this very type of mentality that has led to the majority of the world to hate us. I am part of this predominant culture in America but I realize that it is enough that we are ourselves and we need to stop trying to force our values on ohters except in the case of HUMAN rights.

And another thing, dogfighting was legal until 1986 in VA. Too many people act as if this dog loving attitude is some sort of longstanding self evident morality. Its not even remotely that.

I have a dog. I love my dog but I do not expect people to treat or think of their dogs the same as me.

It sucks for the dogs but a lot of things we do really really suck for those animals.

[smrattler]

"...Dogfighting is a sadistic "contest" in which two dogs—specifically bred, conditioned, and trained to fight—are placed in a pit (generally a small arena enclosed by plywood walls) to fight each other for the spectators' entertainment and gambling. Fights average nearly an hour in length and often last more than two hours. Dogfights end when one of the dogs will not or cannot continue. Their innate breeding won't let them quit even if they've lost eyes, disemboweled....you get the picture.


It sounded a lot like the first years of UFC! :lol

[Kori Ellis]

Michael Vick is going to jail for racketeering, gambling illegally and probably tax evasion. I don't think its actually illegal to kill dogs. Most sensible and humane people with a heart wouldn't do it...


I think it is illegal in most states under animal cruelty/abuse laws.

[K-State Spur]

I don't think its actually illegal to kill dogs. Most sensible and humane people with a heart wouldn't do it...


You think wrong. Although the actual penalties for people who do are far far too lax.

Nevermind just the animal lover's angle - cruelty to dogs is a tell-tale sign of psychopathic behavior, and is often a stepping stone for future murderers.

[HJNTX]

I hope Vick never plays in the NFL again .. :vomit:

[SequSpur]

When it comes to pitbulls, I'd rather see them killing each other than killing people.

Dogfighting has been around for years and now it's all Vick's fault... Give me a got damn break already.

[HJNTX]

When it comes to pitbulls, I'd rather see them killing each other than killing people.

Dogfighting has been around for years and now it's all Vick's fault... Give me a got damn break already.
It's against the law and just because it's "been around for years," doesn't make it right ..What he has done is barbaric..

[SequSpur]

barbaric? what about people who slaughter cows, chickens, fish, etc.? What about people who fight in the UFC?

some of you are haters and live your lives by the media. Fuck that.

Why should he be banned from Football because he had some dogfights? WTF?

Drinking the haterade again... You know, if you ding dongs would turn off CNN and Geraldo, you might actually find the world yourselves.

[ratm1221]

barbaric? what about people who slaughter cows, chickens, fish, etc.? What about people who fight in the UFC?

some of you are haters and live your lives by the media. Fuck that.

Why should he be banned from Football because he had some dogfights? WTF?

Drinking the haterade again... You know, if you ding dongs would turn off CNN and Geraldo, you might actually find the world yourselves.

UFC fighters are there by their own choice. Bad analogy. These dogs don't have a choice. Cows, chickens, fish, etc. are killed to be eaten. I don't know all the details but I don't think they were eating the dogs. And as far as the hunting argument, I don't hunt but I have never seen a deer running around the forest that looked like this...
http://advocacy.britannica.com/blog/advocacy/wp-content/uploads/pit-bull.jpg
http://animom.tripod.com/gypsytenn.jpg

[ratm1221]

Also, Michael Vick is a professional athlete and is under a microscope in the public eye. He should have known better. And don't act like this is Michael Vick's first fuck up.

[T Park]

You know sequ, we joke around and stuff, but if your truely serious about your views on dogfighting?

I've lost serious respect for you.

[T Park]

Fact is that Marbury has a point


No he has no point.

Agreeing with Marbury, is about as stupid as someone defending dog fighting.


Adios mouth breather.

[SequSpur]

http://www.banbloodsports.com/images/gallery/2004-2.jpg

Injured Deer.



The dogs used in dogfights aren't your household kick dogs such as poodles, chihuahuas, and pomeranians...

COME ON! These dogs were killers and born into this world to kill....

Free Vick! Free Vick!

[SequSpur]

You know sequ, we joke around and stuff, but if your truely serious about your views on dogfighting?

I've lost serious respect for you.

Dude, I have two dogs, but I ain't going to get my panties in a wad because somebody was breeding Pitbulls to kill one another...

Again, it's better for them to do this than to attack children in the streets.

In some countries, Dogs are a cuisine. WTF? Should we ban them and drop a bomb on them?

This Vick shit is a waste of time.. He isn't the one who invented it or is running the show.... COME ON!!!!

Quit being wusses and letting CNN dictate your lifes. Look in the fucking mirror, open your eyes... grab your nuts....

I know he broke the law and he should get punished.. but fucking banned from getting a job in his field because of it??? WTF?

Kobe can rape a white girl and be glorified. Vick kills a fucking dog or two or six and he should be banned for life???? Fuckin Luda.

[T Park]

Im seriously sickened by your view Sequ.

Don't say Hi to me at the next GTG.

Im dead serious.

[K-State Spur]

http://www.banbloodsports.com/images/gallery/2004-2.jpg

Injured Deer.



The dogs used in dogfights aren't your household kick dogs such as poodles, chihuahuas, and pomeranians...

COME ON! These dogs were killers and born into this world to kill....

Free Vick! Free Vick!

Pit Bulls weren't originally killers. It's because people breed & train them for dogfighting that many have become a danger to society. If we continue to turn a blind eye to dogfighting, that threat will only continue.

[RC's Boss]

It's dogs people! Why don't you mofos get in an uproar about healthcare for the elderly. Go protest this pathetic war and get the troops back home w/ their families. I have a dog. If you come to MY house and kill my dog, that burning sensation in your temple would be a round from one of my pistols. My neighbor has 9 FREAKING dogs in his backyard. I pray for the day I wake up to find them ALL hanging from the oak tree in his front yard! All of you calling guys insane, barbaric, stupid, etc., are a bunch of MEDIA WHORES! Shut the fuck up will you w/ the self-righteous bullshit. I've seen plenty of photos from GTGs on this forum w/ PLENTY of drunkeness. I know all you S.O.B.'s didn't catch a fucking cab home! Therefore, you broke the law and should be arrested, have a DUI on your record, and get your license suspened for a year. "He broke the law, so he should pay for his crimes" SHUT THE FUCK UP w/ the bullshit. Call me what you want, but I run over at LEAST 3-4 dogs or cats per month. If they run out in front of me, I don't swerve at all... They are roadkill.

[RC's Boss]

Pit Bulls weren't originally killers. It's because people breed & train them for dogfighting that many have become a danger to society. If we continue to turn a blind eye to dogfighting, that threat will only continue.
What threat????? Are pit bulls about to run wild throughout America's cities?????????? Are they going to knock on your door and jump out from the bushes demanding you give up the cash :rolleyes

[Holt's Cat]

We care more about dead pitbulls than unborn babies. Anyways, there's no difference in bagging some bucks or capping a pit bull. Of course, white people hunt, I guess. Who are those negroes to think they can kill animals?

[RC's Boss]

Im seriously sickened by your view Sequ.

Don't say Hi to me at the next GTG.

Im dead serious.
What's sickening is not speaking to a fellow human b/c his opinions differ from yours.... Oh I forgot, he's a human not a dog.

[K-State Spur]

What threat????? Are pit bulls about to run wild throughout America's cities??????????

How many inner cities have you been around?

You can find packs of feral or stray dogs running around most U.S. cities if you hit the right area. It's even more common in many smaller communities.

About once a month, you'll see a story about a pit bull attack. Not that common when you take into account the large population of the breed, but still more common than most other breeds.

[SequSpur]

yeah.. you're sickened by my opinion. I'm not a dogfighter... in the sum of all thing bad, is dogfighting really that bad? I mean WTF?

These dogs are mean. they kill, they destroy... On a list of ten things that are bad in this world, dogfighting doesn't even break honorable mention unless Vick does it...

My point is yeah dogfighting is bad but really Who gives a fuck?

[SequSpur]

How many inner cities have you been around?

You can find packs of feral or stray dogs running around most U.S. cities if you hit the right area. It's even more common in many smaller communities.

About once a month, you'll see a story about a pit bull attack. Not that common when you take into account the large population of the breed, but still more common than most other breeds.

pit bulls should be shot.

[SequSpur]

btw, 40K + people are into dogfighting.

millions have no health insurance and die every day because they can't get the healthcare they need. troops are dying or being mangled by road side bombs that pussies leave there.

and the lead story is Vick is a dogfighter.... Keep on watching that CNN!!!!

[RC's Boss]

TALK TO YOU GUYS LATER. I"M ON MY WAY TO THE THURSDAY NIGHT DOGFIGHTS DOWN ON THE BAYOU. :smokin

[Holt's Cat]

Vick is an idiot for getting himself into this, but Kobe raped a young woman and he's still idolized. Who gives that much of a shit about pit bulls? Seriously.

[saporvida]

pit bulls should be shot.

should not.

my boss has a pit and it's the nicest dog i know of. i've met plenty pits that are gentle loving dogs. i don't agree with your statement but whatever.

it's not the breed that is evil it is the owners behind them.

with all that said i still agree with marbury.

[Holt's Cat]

Yeah yeah, pit bulls are sweet innocent dogs.

[Jamtas#2]

Vick is an idiot for getting himself into this, but Kobe raped a young woman and he's still idolized. Who gives that much of a shit about pit bulls? Seriously.

I'm sure if Kobe had plead guilty there would be a different view on that subject. And as for your earlier take
white people hunt, I guess. Who are those negroes to think they can kill animals? Dog fighting is not a "black" sport. There are many whites who engage in it as well. I don't know if any of you got to see the HBO Real Sports that had a segment on this, but it is just sickening... and most of those shown were white.

The analogy to UFC fighters is also a poor one. The fighters are not "trained" (through various abuses) to kill each other, and the losing fighter does not get taken out to a field and get shot, or electrocuted, or drowned.

Vick was not unaware that this sport was illegal. The promoters of these events go to great length to keep them quiet so the police don't find out. He lied about his involvement to the owner of the Falcons and the commissioner of the league.

As far as saying that he still has a right to make a living, you are absolutely correct. But playing in the NFL is not a right. Just like if I worked for AT&T and got charged with a felony and lied to my boss about it, he has the right to fire me if he chooses. I can go get a job doing something else, but I'm not guaranteed to get back the same job I had before. If Goodall decides to ban Vick, it will not just because he "killed a few dogs". There is the gambling, dog fighting, and lying about it right to the commish's face.

As for the hunting comparisons...there might be something to that in the sense that both kill animals. That is it though. One is legal, one is not. Arguing that Alcohol and cigarettes are illegal is not a good defense for getting busted with pot, cocaine, etc. You know it is illegal and you take that risk if you do them. You don't get to cry about it if you get caught and blame someone else for your actions.

[ChumpDumper]

Black people aren't allowed to hunt?

[T Park]

Im waiting for Fillmoe or more of the educated posters to now tell us how this is a "racist" conviction and another example of George Bush and the white men of america holding down the black man.

[sabar]

It's dogs people! Why don't you mofos get in an uproar about healthcare for the elderly. Go protest this pathetic war and get the troops back home w/ their families. I have a dog. If you come to MY house and kill my dog, that burning sensation in your temple would be a round from one of my pistols. My neighbor has 9 FREAKING dogs in his backyard. I pray for the day I wake up to find them ALL hanging from the oak tree in his front yard! All of you calling guys insane, barbaric, stupid, etc., are a bunch of MEDIA WHORES! Shut the fuck up will you w/ the self-righteous bullshit. I've seen plenty of photos from GTGs on this forum w/ PLENTY of drunkeness. I know all you S.O.B.'s didn't catch a fucking cab home! Therefore, you broke the law and should be arrested, have a DUI on your record, and get your license suspened for a year. "He broke the law, so he should pay for his crimes" SHUT THE FUCK UP w/ the bullshit. Call me what you want, but I run over at LEAST 3-4 dogs or cats per month. If they run
out in front of me, I don't swerve at all... They are roadkill.This is why abortion should be legal. Kidding, but seriously, you have a sick mind. People don't get up in arms over healthcare or the elderly? Ever go to the political forums, you can read 100 threads on it in the past 2 years versus... 2-3 dog fighting threads.


btw, 40K + people are into dogfighting.

millions have no health insurance and die every day because they can't get the healthcare they need. troops are dying or being mangled by road side bombs that pussies leave there.

and the lead story is Vick is a dogfighter.... Keep on watching that CNN!!!!
BREAKING NEWS: The American healthcare system and troops dying have been in the news every day for the past 5 years. CNN is like 24/7 criticism of the war for the past 4 years, not Vick's case.

You people are sick. It's you asses that go 70 MPH on the road behind my house that made me bury my cat and 20-30 other people's pets.

T Park is so right that's its' scary.

Kobe's case was about http://spurstalk.com/forums/images/smilies/greedy.gif, not truth.

So much http://spurstalk.com/forums/images/smilies/dramaqueen.gif over this. Hope Vick has fun in prison! Maybe he'll give his fans a good-bye middle finger or two, that classy guy.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

No he has no point.

Agreeing with Marbury, is about as stupid as someone defending dog fighting.


Adios mouth breather.

Great insight there. Im not saying that dog fighting is good but rather animal abuse is generally accepted across the board in our culture and because we have a sentimental attachment to dogs does not mean we should force everyone else too.

[mbass]

I posted on the other board and I wasn't going to get into it here, but some of the responses got me scratching my head:

"So I guess clubbing and stabbing the crippled dogs is just an occupational hazard? Poor Stephon must not realize that the dogs used in these events often die of blood loss, shock, dehydration, exhaustion, or infection hours or even days after the fight. Other animals are often sacrificed as well. Some owners train their dogs for fights using smaller animals such as cats, rabbits or small dogs. These "bait" animals are often stolen pets or animals obtained through "free to good home" advertisements.

Starbury's comments border on insanity. I think I preferred him when he was merely stupid."

"One doesn't have to be an animal rights person, heck to me it's not even a PETA issue. One just has to know right from wrong. Dogfighting is a sadistic "contest" in which two dogs—specifically bred, conditioned, and trained to fight—are placed in a pit (generally a small arena enclosed by plywood walls) to fight each other for the spectators' entertainment and gambling. Fights average nearly an hour in length and often last more than two hours. Dogfights end when one of the dogs will not or cannot continue. Their innate breeding won't let them quit even if they've lost eyes, disemboweled....you get the picture.

Whether the issue is dogfighting, cockfighting, bullfighting or one human being hurting another human being, wrong is wrong and the offender should be punished, celebrity or regular joe."


I'm not a hunter now, but I was when I was younger. Heck I was born in south Texas so I grew up with hunting a big part of my life. I'm not defending hunters but you gotta admit a quick kill ordinarily doesn't put the animal through extended barbaric agony.

I'm not an animal rights fanatic or a PETA card carrying member or one of those annoying Vegans. I love a good steak. Is it hypocrytical? I don't know. What I do know is that there is just something inherently revolting and repulsive about animal fighting. Before I read into this and became more informed about dogfighting, I may have been one of many who would have dismissed this as a witch hunt against a well known athlete. Not anymore.

It's a gross, sadistic "sport" and I question the humanity of anyone who doesn't think that it is revolting. I really think that the blood thirst is a sickness.

[RC's Boss]

This is why abortion should be legal. Kidding, but seriously, you have a sick mind. People don't get up in arms over healthcare or the elderly? Ever go to the political forums, you can read 100 threads on it in the past 2 years versus... 2-3 dog fighting threads.


BREAKING NEWS: The American healthcare system and troops dying have been in the news every day for the past 5 years. CNN is like 24/7 criticism of the war for the past 4 years, not Vick's case.

You people are sick. It's you asses that go 70 MPH on the road behind my house that made me bury my cat and 20-30 other people's pets.

T Park is so right that's its' scary.

Kobe's case was about http://spurstalk.com/forums/images/smilies/greedy.gif, not truth.

So much http://spurstalk.com/forums/images/smilies/dramaqueen.gif over this. Hope Vick has fun in prison! Maybe he'll give his fans a good-bye middle finger or two, that classy guy.
My mind is not 'sick". I just don't agree w/ you. Some people get in an uproar over dogs, but can't treat their fellow man w/ decent respect. And the uproar is not limited to political forums. I've seen the t-shirts w/ Vick's name and jail bars in front of it. Underneath it says, "animal hater". That's overboard. While I think it was dumb to throw away 130 mil. like that, I do not agree w/ most peoples' assement that he's some type of skid mark, lower lifeform, demonic creature. Eddie Griffin got burned to a crisp... FRONT PAGE, Chris Benoit offs his wife, kids, and himself (now that's sick).... Front Page, Vick fights and abuses DOGS........ last page.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I'm sure if Kobe had plead guilty there would be a different view on that subject. And as for your earlier take Dog fighting is not a "black" sport. There are many whites who engage in it as well. I don't know if any of you got to see the HBO Real Sports that had a segment on this, but it is just sickening... and most of those shown were white.

The analogy to UFC fighters is also a poor one. The fighters are not "trained" (through various abuses) to kill each other, and the losing fighter does not get taken out to a field and get shot, or electrocuted, or drowned.

Vick was not unaware that this sport was illegal. The promoters of these events go to great length to keep them quiet so the police don't find out. He lied about his involvement to the owner of the Falcons and the commissioner of the league.

As far as saying that he still has a right to make a living, you are absolutely correct. But playing in the NFL is not a right. Just like if I worked for AT&T and got charged with a felony and lied to my boss about it, he has the right to fire me if he chooses. I can go get a job doing something else, but I'm not guaranteed to get back the same job I had before. If Goodall decides to ban Vick, it will not just because he "killed a few dogs". There is the gambling, dog fighting, and lying about it right to the commish's face.

As for the hunting comparisons...there might be something to that in the sense that both kill animals. That is it though. One is legal, one is not. Arguing that Alcohol and cigarettes are illegal is not a good defense for getting busted with pot, cocaine, etc. You know it is illegal and you take that risk if you do them. You don't get to cry about it if you get caught and blame someone else for your actions.

i love it. All that and the only justification you can come up with is one is legal and the other is illegal. That is my fucking point about asserting one cultures values onto anothers. Its a disgusting cultural hypocrisy as we wear our perfumes that have a trail of maimed rabbits in their wake, grab our winchester so we can go find some 12 point to kill and throw baby cows in boxes for months unable to move so we can get that meat oh so tender.

We fuck those animals up for nothing better than something to hang on our wall, a pretty smell and a scrumdiddlyumptious bite to eat. But hey if people in the south want to do something cruel to dogs no way because we grew up on Lassi and Old Yeller?

I have an idea lets take a cattle prod to a baby cow to scare the shit out of it and then chase it down and tie it up or better yet lets put a strap on a horse or bull that causes it to have a convulsive reflex for a minute or so and see if we can hang onto it in front of a whole bunch of people. YEEHAW!!!

People go hunting for deer antlers all the time. I mean if you were to ask me whether i would prefer to be hunted down killed and scalped or be forced into gladiatorial combat I would choose the fighting chance.

This is before you talk about all the animals we kill in the hundreds of thousands daily so we can eat meat. At least we can actually excuse that with a need for survivability.

I mean if you really think that dogfighting is bad and needs to be stopped i think you really should stop and look in the mirror at what you by proxy allow each and every day. If you can do that and actually try to live by that then i have the utmost respect for you. That truly is noble.

OTOH if you cannot then you are nothing but a hypocrite that is no better than Michael Vick.

[mbass]

What's sickening is not speaking to a fellow human b/c his opinions differ from yours.... Oh I forgot, he's a human not a dog.


This isn't just a "difference of opinion" it is a measure of a person's character and moral compass. The capacity for such cruelty is telling and one that condones it is scum. But that is "just my opinion"

[T Park]

Im shocked at how many people think its ok to fight dogs, and if they lose, to hang or drown them.


You people need some goddamn self examinations.

[T Park]

This isn't just a "difference of opinion" it is a measure of a person's character and moral compass. The capacity for such cruelty is telling and one that condones it is scum. But that is "just my opinion

perfectly said.

THats not an opinion, thats a fact.

Anyone that condones such cruelty, hatefull, evil acts, is themselves equally as evil.

[resistanze]

Call me what you want, but I run over at LEAST 3-4 dogs or cats per month. If they run out in front of me, I don't swerve at all... They are roadkill.
:lmao:lmao

[RC's Boss]

This isn't just a "difference of opinion" it is a measure of a person's character and moral compass. The capacity for such cruelty is telling and one that condones it is scum. But that is "just my opinion"
Okay you win, :rolleyes I'm scum b/c i don't give a shit if Michael Vick killed 1,999 dogs by himself w/ his bare hands. BTW, this scum's moral compass is pointing at deez nuts beyatch! :smokin

[FuzzyLumpkins]

This isn't just a "difference of opinion" it is a measure of a person's character and moral compass. The capacity for such cruelty is telling and one that condones it is scum. But that is "just my opinion"

You loathe rodeos, have a problem with hunting, feel that all nonmedical animal testing should be stopped, feel that the veal trade needs to be stopped, feel that the fur trade needst o be stopped, and see the necessity of banning dog racing?

If you disagree with any of that methinks your a hypocrite.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Im shocked at how many people think its ok to fight dogs, and if they lose, to hang or drown them.


You people need some goddamn self examinations.

You realize that when ranchers do that with their herds which is quite common they call it culling. They are animals not people and we are mean as shit to animals as a matter of course. You ever been to a slaughter house?

[Obstructed_View]

You realize that when ranchers do that with their herds which is quite common they call it culling. They are animals not people and we are mean as shit to animals as a matter of course. You ever been to a slaughter house?
Ranchers throw cows into a pit and bet on them to thin their stock? Someone that has a legitimate business has quick, efficient and clean methods of killing animals. That Michael Vick found several different and excessively brutal ways of killing his dogs indicates a level of insanity that is only eclipsed by those that attempt to draw any kind of parallel to the standard practices of the food industry.

[saporvida]

Im shocked at how many people think its ok to fight dogs, and if they lose, to hang or drown them.


You people need some goddamn self examinations.

i dont remember anyone condoning dog fighting... all we want to do is get you to open your mind and use it for once instead of acting like all the other sheep in the herd.

i am AGAINST dog fighting, but to me it's one thing to say this or that is allowed while totally going against what is outlawed for your own merit. it's all fine and dandy when you wanna go out to the zoo and watch the animals as they are in their natural environments.....or better yet watch these abused animals live a shitty life behind bars for your amusement. it's all good when you wanna see a few horses race but when it comes time to shoot the one with the broken leg you want no part of it. it's all good to go out to hunting ranges so you can get your next trophy kill but when it comes down to man's best friend you best believe you gonna be all over it with your tshirts and protest signs. get over yourselves and take some damn anthro classes!

[saporvida]

Ranchers throw cows into a pit and bet on them to thin their stock? Someone that has a legitimate business has quick, efficient and clean methods of killing animals. That Michael Vick found several different and excessively brutal ways of killing his dogs indicates a level of insanity that is only eclipsed by those that attempt to draw any kind of parallel to the standard practices of the food industry.

so killing isnt killing right? i dont get it?

so if i go and kill my neighbor humanely then it's all good? quick shot to the head right?

[slayermin]

To me, a year to 18 months in jail is way too severe for this crime. Imo, he should get at most six months in jail, a huge fine, and a shit load of community service.

But he probably would have received leniency if he just came clean so this is all him.

[TheAuthority]

Let's drown Vick.

[Jamtas#2]

i love it. All that and the only justification you can come up with is one is legal and the other is illegal. That is my fucking point about asserting one cultures values onto anothers. Its a disgusting cultural hypocrisy as we wear our perfumes that have a trail of maimed rabbits in their wake, grab our winchester so we can go find some 12 point to kill and throw baby cows in boxes for months unable to move so we can get that meat oh so tender.

We fuck those animals up for nothing better than something to hang on our wall, a pretty smell and a scrumdiddlyumptious bite to eat. But hey if people in the south want to do something cruel to dogs no way because we grew up on Lassi and Old Yeller?

I have an idea lets take a cattle prod to a baby cow to scare the shit out of it and then chase it down and tie it up or better yet lets put a strap on a horse or bull that causes it to have a convulsive reflex for a minute or so and see if we can hang onto it in front of a whole bunch of people. YEEHAW!!!

People go hunting for deer antlers all the time. I mean if you were to ask me whether i would prefer to be hunted down killed and scalped or be forced into gladiatorial combat I would choose the fighting chance.

This is before you talk about all the animals we kill in the hundreds of thousands daily so we can eat meat. At least we can actually excuse that with a need for survivability.

I mean if you really think that dogfighting is bad and needs to be stopped i think you really should stop and look in the mirror at what you by proxy allow each and every day. If you can do that and actually try to live by that then i have the utmost respect for you. That truly is noble.

OTOH if you cannot then you are nothing but a hypocrite that is no better than Michael Vick.

the only thing is that one is legal and one is not? That's all you got? I'll tell you what, let me do that mirror thing for you now:
I do not condone hunting for antlers. That should not be allowed either. I do not agree with animal testing perfumes/colognes on rabbits. I've worked with various dog rescues through out the years and am the current owner of a dog that was once terribly abused. Animal cruelty is disgusting to me and I'm glad there are laws against dogfighting.
the one is legal one is not, was just one of the points I was making in reference to how many people are trying to justify Vick's actions.
Shooting up with Heroin isn't allowed either, but you don't defend that by saying other people shoot up with insulin.

And damn, even if I didn't keep that same mind frame across the board in regards to animal cruelty, I'd rather be a hypocrite than a lying low life who abuses animals and would not say the 2 are equal.

[mbass]

You loathe rodeos, have a problem with hunting, feel that all nonmedical animal testing should be stopped, feel that the veal trade needs to be stopped, feel that the fur trade needst o be stopped, and see the necessity of banning dog racing?

If you disagree with any of that methinks your a hypocrite.

I've been to a couple of rodeos but I've never seen an animal tortured or killed for "sport". I do have a problem personally with hunting but one of my relatives tells me it's okay if you do it to eat - so I sort of buy that altho I would not/could not do it myself. I was a medical researcher prior to retirement and while I could not bring myself to use animals in my work, I do understand the rationale as it is in the interest of disease cure - vaccines, cancer, inheritable disease, and the like. The veal trade bothers me greatly altho I understand that the cows are treated more humanely now - not kept in cages. And as far as my last research project went - we used calf forelegs to study bone/mineral metabolism. However, the calves were killed for veal prior to obtaining them. As far as the fur trade - if the animals are killed humanely then I do not see a problem here - same as hunting. I will not attend a dog race.
The differences between your examples and that of dog fighting for "sport" is that there are redeeming qualities in all of your other examples. Dog fighting is done for nothing other than the "thrill" of the blood and kill which I consider SICK

[tmtcsc]

yeah.. you're sickened by my opinion. I'm not a dogfighter... in the sum of all thing bad, is dogfighting really that bad? I mean WTF?

These dogs are mean. they kill, they destroy... On a list of ten things that are bad in this world, dogfighting doesn't even break honorable mention unless Vick does it...

My point is yeah dogfighting is bad but really Who gives a fuck?

WTF dude ? I hate CNN. I'm no media drone and I think dogfighting REALLY is that bad and I DO give a fuck. What is your argument here ? That since the world is so fucked up with all its problems that we shouldn't care about dogs being bred to kill and hurt each other for sport ?

Why are the dogs mean, why do they kill or destroy ? Because they are apparently fighting for their fucking lives and losing will cause them to be tortured even further.

Besides the fighting itself, its been well documented that dogfighting spawns other crimes. For instance stealing other people's animals to train pit bulls. So, now you have other dogs that are not mean, killing, destroying machines being dropped into a pit for another dog to kill.

I agree that we have alot of other problems in this world that need to be addressed but ignoring the disturbing cruelty of dogfighting isn't ok. Its not just the dogs, its the people who instigate this stuff that are wrong with the world.

Like it or not, dogs have been ingratiated into our society as a whole. In some instances they have become part of our families...They display traits that some of our fellow man can't or won't. They can be loyal, show unconditional love and protect us from fucked up people.

To not understand that fighting and/or torturing dogs IS a big deal is to be short sighted.

[tmtcsc]

You think wrong. Although the actual penalties for people who do are far far too lax. Nevermind just the animal lover's angle - cruelty to dogs is a tell-tale sign of psychopathic behavior, and is often a stepping stone for future murderers.


Ok, I did a little homework. From what I gather, different states have different laws pertaining to animal cruelty, NOT animal killing.

If someone euthanizes a pet, they are not murderers or killers. Do you see where I am going with this ? In some cases, animal cruelty does not lead to an animal's death. The person who commits the crime will still be punished. In other cases, the cruelty does lead to an animal either dying or mercifully being euthanized. It's the cruelty that is punishable.

Me thought right. :toast

[mbass]

WTF dude ? I hate CNN. I'm no media drone and I think dogfighting REALLY is that bad and I DO give a fuck. What is your argument here ? That since the world is so fucked up with all its problems that we shouldn't care about dogs being bred to kill and hurt each other for sport ?

Why are the dogs mean, why do they kill or destroy ? Because they are apparently fighting for their fucking lives and losing will cause them to be tortured even further.

Besides the fighting itself, its been well documented that dogfighting spawns other crimes. For instance stealing other people's animals to train pit bulls. So, now you have other dogs that are not mean, killing, destroying machines being dropped into a pit for another dog to kill.

I agree that we have alot of other problems in this world that need to be addressed but ignoring the disturbing cruelty of dogfighting isn't ok. Its not just the dogs, its the people who instigate this stuff that are wrong with the world.

Like it or not, dogs have been ingratiated into our society as a whole. In some instances they have become part of our families...They display traits that some of our fellow man can't or won't. They can be loyal, show unconditional love and protect us from fucked up people.

To not understand that fighting and/or torturing dogs IS a big deal is to be short sighted.

Very good post - but it's more than short sighted - it's a character flaw.

[ObiwanGinobili]

I find myself in complete agreement with my buddy T, and that doesn't happen too often.


me too.

And I have gone deer hunting. It's an arrow or a bullet thru the heart or head. If it;s nto a kill shot then there is a follow up ASAP ensuring a quick and humane (as possible) death.
I have yet to see a group of guys go out i nthe woods and torture, electrocute, drown etc etc deer. they certainly don't pit deer agianst each other in bloodsport, or 'punish" the losing deer with cuts and amputation.

the comparison is BS.

(while completely acknowledging that there are some fucked up people out there who go hunting purely for the sport of it - ie the joy of killing somethign i guess - instead of the food)

[Slydragon]

I think if someone has 20 people given a dvd of a dog fighting event, over half would want to watch. Because it's on dvd we can play it off as I was not there I had nothing to do with it, So I can watch this.

I know if there were tapes of the dog fights from Vic I would want to see it, as many other people who say bad thing about what he did would watch it.

We like to see 1 on 1 fighting, Dogs or anything. That's why UFC and K1 is so popular now. We want to see someone or something hurt, knock out, beaten.

[Uncle Donnie]

I think if someone has 20 people given a dvd of a dog fighting event, over half would want to watch. Because it's on dvd we can play it off as I was not there I had nothing to do with it, So I can watch this.

I know if there were tapes of the dog fights from Vic I would want to see it, as many other people who say bad thing about what he did would watch it.

We like to see 1 on 1 fighting, Dogs or anything. That's why UFC and K1 is so popular now. We want to see someone or something hurt, knock out, beaten.

Yeah no thanks. Just because youd want to see it doesn't mean that most wouldn't be disgusted by it. UFC isn't a fight to the death and the combatants are willing participants.

[K-State Spur]

Ok, I did a little homework. From what I gather, different states have different laws pertaining to animal cruelty, NOT animal killing.

If someone euthanizes a pet, they are not murderers or killers. Do you see where I am going with this ? In some cases, animal cruelty does not lead to an animal's death. The person who commits the crime will still be punished. In other cases, the cruelty does lead to an animal either dying or mercifully being euthanized. It's the cruelty that is punishable.

Me thought right. :toast

Your just splitting hairs on the wording. Murder a dog in front of the police in most states, and you'll be arrested. The charge won't be 'murder', but you'll still be facing some form of (relatively minor) penalty.

[K-State Spur]

Yeah no thanks. Just because youd want to see it doesn't mean that most wouldn't be disgusted by it. UFC isn't a fight to the death and the combatants are willing participants.

Hurting animals (or watching them tear each other to pieces) for pure enjoyment is a major sign of a psychopath. That's not meant as an insult. It's a psychological tell.

[Strike]

tell that to all the potheads behind bars getting raped by known murderers.

"it's illegal" come on now... fuck the system! getting into a war without reason is illegal too but hey you don't see fuckface bush serving time do ya?

If you disagree with a law, take steps to have it changed. You, as an American citizen have that power.

If you're not going to work toward change, don't bitch about the laws with which you disagree.

[saporvida]

If you disagree with a law, take steps to have it changed. You, as an American citizen have that power.

If you're not going to work toward change, don't bitch about the laws with which you disagree.

i love this reply statement.

i wasn't bitching about anything... you don't see me here saying marijuana laws need to be changed or this and that do you? no.

and we as american citizens have no power. best believe that. every day a little bit of our freedom is taken away from us... the power to change laws doesn't lie within the hands of society, it lies within the hands of the people running the show. we had the power to elect a president back in 2000 and what did our votes get us? it got us a crooked man who looks out for his own gain and currupts our system even further, not only that but we got ourselves a cheat who somehow found his way into office. again we have no power so dont be fooled.

my point was that many things are illegal but should they really be illegal? you can be the big pussy and put your total trust into the system but i hope one day you wake up and stop taking the easy route by saying, well it's illegal.

[Taco]

MARBURY DEFENDS VICK

This thread should be retitled to MARBURY IS A DICK

[urunobili]

People who hunt go out of their way to kill the animal quickly and humanely. Most all the time they are also eating the animal. This is totally different than dog fighting, which is a form of animal cruelty.

the outcome is the same KILL AN ANIMAL so... Vick... you're fucked buddy... just because people wants it... and that same guy that will give u a 5 in jail... will be killing deers next spring... tough i know... but it' america... :smokin

[41times]

i am actually surprised that some other athletes have not come out in support of Vick. I will bet you that 10% of pro athletes would participate in Dog Fighting if they had the chance, Mabye more. You can take the boy out of the hood but you can't take the hodd out of the boy.

The people who enjoy it think nothing of it. They liken it to Bull Fighting and they call it a sport. I disagree but that's my opinion.

The problem is that when a dog does not do well they punish it or kill it which is pure cruelty. And that's what people will not tolerate.

You can rape a ho like Kobe and eventully be forgiven but there are 2 crimes that people do not forgive:

1. Crimes against Children
2. Animal cruelty crimes

Have fun in Prison Mike. I hope you get treated the exact same way your dogs did.....

[urunobili]

i am actually surprised that some other athletes have not come out in support of Vick. I will bet you that 10% of pro athletes would participate in Dog Fighting if they had the chance, Mabye more. You can take the boy out of the hood but you can't take the hodd out of the boy.

The people who enjoy it think nothing of it. They liken it to Bull Fighting and they call it a sport. I disagree but that's my opinion.

The problem is that when a dog does not do well they punish it or kill it which is pure cruelty. And that's what people will not tolerate.

You can rape a ho like Kobe and eventully be forgiven but there are 2 crimes that people do not forgive:

1. Crimes against Children
2. Animal cruelty crimes

Have fun in Prison Mike. I hope you get treated the exact same way your dogs did.....

Animal Cruelty?? all Vick punisher's should become Veggies then... ha!

"For all the Cows" Foo Fighters!!!!!
:smokin

[Avitus1]

Marbury better watch out they'll investigate his ass next.

Ultimately the differences between hunting and dog fighting are insane. There is no way to even compare them to each other except for the fact that in the end the animal dies. Its like comparing Boxing with Wrestling because in the end someone wins. However in both cases one is a legit sport and the other one isnt.

[rasho8]

Tons of breeders use those types of stands and they arent illegal. Ranchers cull their herds yet Vick murders dogs.

Fact is that Marbury has a point. You can go bowhunting deer for nothing other than their horns. Essentially outside of a culture preedominantly in the south americans see dogs as pets. The only issue is that not all cultures look at all animals the same. We look at cows as food for example whereas Hindus hold the animal sacred. Are they justified in trying to coopt our culture to fit their views? Why are we not decrying the eating of dogs in the Phillipines and in other regions of Asia?

Of course not and that is why I feel that we have no right to force other cultures to conform to our view of what an animals purpose is and all the while kill torture and generally abuse across the board. We as a culture still have trophy hunting, cosmetic animal testing, rodeos, dog racing and a whole slew of other things that are varying in degree of animal abuse with no real practical benefit.

It is this very type of mentality that has led to the majority of the world to hate us. I am part of this predominant culture in America but I realize that it is enough that we are ourselves and we need to stop trying to force our values on ohters except in the case of HUMAN rights.

And another thing, dogfighting was legal until 1986 in VA. Too many people act as if this dog loving attitude is some sort of longstanding self evident morality. Its not even remotely that.

I have a dog. I love my dog but I do not expect people to treat or think of their dogs the same as me.

It sucks for the dogs but a lot of things we do really really suck for those animals.

Oh my god.. here is the culture argument.

Its not your culture if its a felony, okay.
This is a southern sport that has migrated to inner cities and become part of the drug culture. Read anything about it and thats clear. The culture argument doesnt stand up.

Thats like saying a bunch of herione addicts are just part of a subculture that gets high all the time, its no different then drinking... except its a fuckin felony.

And torturing dogs to death and forcing them to fight by breeding and training them for that purpose is illegal, pure and simple. There is no justification for this... and saying its his culture is bullshit and you know it.

[Viva Las Espuelas]

Well child molesting is done "behind closed doors", so I guess that is a sport as well and should not be looked down upon. Stephon. Just keep producing your 10 dollar shoes overseas by little kids.............................................. ............behind closed doors.

[sandman]

I know that as one of the more conservative posters here, I originally thought that I would be a "give him the max" kind of guy. But after spending some time mulling it all over, and reading the plethora of extreme opinions here on the forum, I think my take is fairly middle ground:

1. Heavy fines and community service for breaking laws related to gambling, interstate trafficking of an illegal activity, and cruelty to animals.

2. One year suspension from the league for violating the personal conduct policy

While I don't believe that he should be Tiny's girlfriend over this, I do believe that his actions merit punishment from both the league and society. Society because he knowingly broke the law, and from the league because his gambling potentially placed himself and thus the league in a position of compromise that could destroy the integrity of the game (See: Tim Donaghy)

For those that are debating the hunting/legal angles, I have a question:

Are you upset that Vick is being punished at all, or that the severity of the punishment does not fit the crime?

In the grand scheme of things, Vick is not a pedophile, rapist or serial killer. In that aspect, being sent away for years for a crime that was not committed against humanity is severe as I noted above. However, just because it was not a crime against humanity does not mean that Vick should not be held accountable for not acting humanely.

Depending on your personal outlook on life, we are either the more evolved species or placed here by a Supreme Being to be caretakers of the earth and its creatures. A society influenced by either mindset recognizes the responsibility we have to behave like we belong at the top of the food chain, and thus laws are created as boundaries. When overstepping those boundaries, there will be consequences.

Vick's actions must be compared to the law, not to the actions of others. I have no doubt that all of us could find someone doing something worse to justify our actions that we know are wrong; however, that does not make our actions any less wrong.

In the end his actions merit punishment, but not to the extent that it will likely become. And unfortunately, the government's eagerness to make the punishment that severe will only serve to polarize this event into a social/cultural/racial fiasco instead of what it really should be: an individual knowingly breaking the law and being held accountable for his actions.

[Slinkyman]

I hear Iraq has WMDs! /marbury

[Demo Dick Marcinko]

My mind is not 'sick". I just don't agree w/ you. Some people get in an uproar over dogs, but can't treat their fellow man w/ decent respect. And the uproar is not limited to political forums. I've seen the t-shirts w/ Vick's name and jail bars in front of it. Underneath it says, "animal hater". That's overboard. While I think it was dumb to throw away 130 mil. like that, I do not agree w/ most peoples' assement that he's some type of skid mark, lower lifeform, demonic creature. Eddie Griffin got burned to a crisp... FRONT PAGE, Chris Benoit offs his wife, kids, and himself (now that's sick).... Front Page, Vick fights and abuses DOGS........ last page.


Ok, Vick is not an animal hater, but ironically enough I couldn't find any Vick Tshirts that had "animal lover" underneath. Weird, huh?

Does the name Sonya Elliot ring a bell? That was the lady who sued Vick for allegedly passing on genital herpes knowingly without informing her. Then he checks into a clinic seeking treatment under the alias of Ron Mexico. The suit was settled out of court so we will probably never know the full story.


How about when Vick gave fans in the Georgia Dome the double whammy two fisted obscene middle finger salute. I'm pretty sure he wasn't saying hi to all his loyal fans and those who supported him. Bad day at the office, I'll just go flip off some people "at my work place". That'll really endear me to my boss and clients.

How about in jan when he was stopped at Miami International on his way home to Atlanta and a water bottle with a hidden compartment was confiscated by security because he was reluctant to leave it behind. Though never charged, come on that should sound off some warning bells. Everyone puts their valuables in containers that can't be carried thru security or on a plane. Of course it's common practice.

Which brings us to his latest faux paux; being an active, participating member in an illegal dogfighting ring. Let me repharase that - he actually sanctioned, funded, ran and participated in the operation.

Ok, maybe Vick is not a skid mark, lower lifeform or demonic creature. What would you call someone who demonstrates no conscience, remorse or lack of feeling and empathy for his victims and those he has hurt? I believe the term is pyschopath. And this time regardless of whatever punishment he gets, he will also be proven to show what he truely is - a criminal.

[Spurminator]

Something I agree with Marbury 100% on... It IS sad that Michael Vick was built up so much. He was never that good to begin with.

[Demo Dick Marcinko]

I know that as one of the more conservative posters here, I originally thought that I would be a "give him the max" kind of guy. But after spending some time mulling it all over, and reading the plethora of extreme opinions here on the forum, I think my take is fairly middle ground:

1. Heavy fines and community service for breaking laws related to gambling, interstate trafficking of an illegal activity, and cruelty to animals.

2. One year suspension from the league for violating the personal conduct policy

While I don't believe that he should be Tiny's girlfriend over this, I do believe that his actions merit punishment from both the league and society. Society because he knowingly broke the law, and from the league because his gambling potentially placed himself and thus the league in a position of compromise that could destroy the integrity of the game (See: Tim Donaghy)

For those that are debating the hunting/legal angles, I have a question:

Are you upset that Vick is being punished at all, or that the severity of the punishment does not fit the crime?

In the grand scheme of things, Vick is not a pedophile, rapist or serial killer. In that aspect, being sent away for years for a crime that was not committed against humanity is severe as I noted above. However, just because it was not a crime against humanity does not mean that Vick should not be held accountable for not acting humanely.

Depending on your personal outlook on life, we are either the more evolved species or placed here by a Supreme Being to be caretakers of the earth and its creatures. A society influenced by either mindset recognizes the responsibility we have to behave like we belong at the top of the food chain, and thus laws are created as boundaries. When overstepping those boundaries, there will be consequences.

Vick's actions must be compared to the law, not to the actions of others. I have no doubt that all of us could find someone doing something worse to justify our actions that we know are wrong; however, that does not make our actions any less wrong.

In the end his actions merit punishment, but not to the extent that it will likely become. And unfortunately, the government's eagerness to make the punishment that severe will only serve to polarize this event into a social/cultural/racial fiasco instead of what it really should be: an individual knowingly breaking the law and being held accountable for his actions.

Good take and all good points.

He should be convicted, and whatever sentence the courts in that jurisdiction see fit to assess as punishment is fine as long as he is convicted. He knowingly broke the law. I wouldn't be bothered if all he got was heavy fines and community service and a record. But it also would not bother me if he did in fact end up as Tiny's biatch.

A one year suspension from the league for violating the personal conduct policy should be sufficient. But for all intent and purposes his career is probably done. What team owner is going to want him on the payroll. It would be a public relations nightmare. I think the Falcons are tired of this guy and just awaiting the out come of this case to give him the boot.

While Vick is not a pedophile, rapist or seriel killer, no reasonable person would try to equate anything that Vick has done or has been alleged to have done to those offenses but he should be punished. To try to equate the two is ludicrous. However that should not diminish the atrocities that were committed on dogs, squirrels, wombats, humans, (insert favorite animal here) that were committed by him.

[mardigan]

http://dailynews.att.net/cgi-bin/news?e=pub&dt=070823&cat=sports&st=sportsd8r6l2lg0&src=ap


Pit Bulls at Vick's House Face Deadline
Updated 5:18 AM ET August 23, 2007


By ZINIE CHEN SAMPSON

RICHMOND, Va. (AP) - More than 50 pit bulls seized from Michael Vick's property face a Thursday deadline to be claimed. If no one comes forward, they could be euthanized.

Federal prosecutors filed court documents last month to condemn 53 pit bulls seized in April as part of the investigation into dogfighting on the Vick's property. No one has claimed any of the dogs, which are being held at several unspecified shelters in eastern Virginia, the U.S. Attorney's office said Wednesday.

The civil complaint filed by federal prosecutors does not name the Atlanta Falcons quarterback and is separate from the criminal case against him. But it does state the pit bulls were part of the dogfighting operation known as "Bad Newz Kennels," which Vick and three cohorts are accused of operating.

Also included in the document are detailed allegations about the nature of the animals' training regimen and the dogfights occurring at Vick's property at 1915 Moonlight Road in Surry County.

The government filed three public civil forfeiture notices in a Richmond newspaper to publicize the dogs' confiscation, and the deadline for claims is 30 days after the appearance of the final notice, filed July 24.

Federal prosecutors declined to comment Wednesday on the seized dogs. Typically, when confiscated property goes unclaimed, the government asks the court to have the items declared forfeited. In this case, U.S. District Judge Henry E. Hudson will make the final decision on the dogs' fate.

"There's no dispute over who owns the dogs," said Daphna Nachminovitch, a spokeswoman for People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals. "Obviously this is not going to be a process where someone steps forward and says, 'This is my dog, can I have her back, please?' "

Though Hudson, who also is handling Vick's criminal case, will determine what becomes of the pit bulls, Nachminovitch said that it's likely that they will be euthanized because they're not adoptable as pets.

"These dogs are a ticking time bomb," she said. "Rehabilitating fighting dogs is not in the cards. It's widely accepted that euthanasia is the most humane thing for them."

Vick, 27, said through a lawyer this week that he will plead guilty to a federal charge of conspiracy to travel in interstate commerce in aid of unlawful activities and conspiracy to sponsor a dog in an animal fighting venture. He is scheduled to enter his plea agreement Monday and could face up to five years in prison.

Three Vick associates have pleaded guilty to the conspiracy charge and agreed to testify against him if the case went to trial. They said Vick provided virtually all the gambling and operating funds for the Bad Newz Kennels enterprise. Two of them also said Vick participated in executing at least eight underperforming dogs by various means, including drowning and hanging.

The locations of the shelters holding the dogs haven't been disclosed out of concern that the animals could be stolen, Nachminovitch said.

"They are a hot commodity in the world of dogfighting," she said.

Copyright 2007 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

[Strike]

i love this reply statement.

i wasn't bitching about anything... you don't see me here saying marijuana laws need to be changed or this and that do you? no.

and we as american citizens have no power. best believe that. every day a little bit of our freedom is taken away from us... the power to change laws doesn't lie within the hands of society, it lies within the hands of the people running the show. we had the power to elect a president back in 2000 and what did our votes get us? it got us a crooked man who looks out for his own gain and currupts our system even further, not only that but we got ourselves a cheat who somehow found his way into office. again we have no power so dont be fooled.

my point was that many things are illegal but should they really be illegal? you can be the big pussy and put your total trust into the system but i hope one day you wake up and stop taking the easy route by saying, well it's illegal.

It's people like you who allow it by whining instead of working.

[saporvida]

It's people like you who allow it by whining instead of working.

allow what? the fact marijuana in illegal is because the gov knows no way to tax it right now and it's in their best interest to try and brainwash people into thinking it should stay illegal. little ol' me aint gonna be able to change the minds of the ones on top and thats that so stop acting as if i can because i know damn well it aint gonna work.

and i aint whining so shut the fuck up. i could care less if marijuana is illegal, sure i would love it if it was legal because then id have no reason to be paranoid any longer but either way im gonna smoke it knowing damn well the consequences of my actions. i aint here to play activist.

ps: fuck albertons! sa should had kept krogers around longer...

[Spurminator]

"They are a hot commodity in the world of dogfighting," she said.

Seems like it would be nice bait to begin targeting other rings.

[K-State Spur]

allow what? the fact marijuana in illegal is because the gov knows no way to tax it right now and it's in their best interest to try and brainwash people into thinking it should stay illegal. little ol' me aint gonna be able to change the minds of the ones on top and thats that so stop acting as if i can because i know damn well it aint gonna work.

there are good arguments for legalization, but that's a poor one. canibus would be just as easy to tax as any other crop. plus, the government would save additional money on incarcerations.

the reasons against legalization - whether you agree with them or not - are more based on medical aspects. marijuana does destroy brain cells (at a higher rate than alcohol) and it's both tough and rare to use marijuana in moderation (meaning that user doesn't get stoned).

[ducks]

This thread should be retitled to MARBURY IS A DICK
yeah how dare someone not care what others think and actually speak their mind

[saporvida]

there are good arguments for legalization, but that's a poor one. canibus would be just as easy to tax as any other crop. plus, the government would save additional money on incarcerations.

the reasons against legalization - whether you agree with them or not - are more based on medical aspects. marijuana does destroy brain cells (at a higher rate than alcohol) and it's both tough and rare to use marijuana in moderation (meaning that user doesn't get stoned).

you're dead wrong... once again another non-smoker probably giving their valued opinion on something they know nothing about.

id rather kill brain cells then crash into people on the road from being drunk. id rather kill brain cells then acquire cancer cells from cigs(before you use the argument that mj can do the same...find me a case!). this whole brain cell thing is bs anyhow... are you a doctor? then your opinion is bs too, that doesnt mean you cant have an opinion but dont act like you know a lot on this subject.

about taxing well... im sure they could figure some way out to tax it but mj unlike cigs is a lot easier to grow and process so therefor a lot of people will be getting away with growing herb instead of buying it. trust me when you smoke theres always that dream to grow too.

im so sick of the bs debate over mj that either way i could care less whether its legal or not. point is i dont care and im gonna keep chiefing.

ps: show me medical uses for drinking alcohol or smoking cigs or using prescription meth. it's all bs!

[sandman]

Good take and all good points.

He should be convicted, and whatever sentence the courts in that jurisdiction see fit to assess as punishment is fine as long as he is convicted. He knowingly broke the law. I wouldn't be bothered if all he got was heavy fines and community service and a record. But it also would not bother me if he did in fact end up as Tiny's biatch.

A one year suspension from the league for violating the personal conduct policy should be sufficient. But for all intent and purposes his career is probably done. What team owner is going to want him on the payroll. It would be a public relations nightmare. I think the Falcons are tired of this guy and just awaiting the out come of this case to give him the boot.

While Vick is not a pedophile, rapist or seriel killer, no reasonable person would try to equate anything that Vick has done or has been alleged to have done to those offenses but he should be punished. To try to equate the two is ludicrous. However that should not diminish the atrocities that were committed on dogs, squirrels, wombats, humans, (insert favorite animal here) that were committed by him.

Not that I don't find what he did as personally repulsive, but I am trying to be a good Conservative and not project my value system on everyone else. I would not necessarily join a protest march if he were to receive a few years in the pokey (pun intended for Tiny), but I am willing to accept that there could be lesser punishment to which he could be subjected.

[Strike]

allow what? the fact marijuana in illegal is because the gov knows no way to tax it right now and it's in their best interest to try and brainwash people into thinking it should stay illegal. little ol' me aint gonna be able to change the minds of the ones on top and thats that so stop acting as if i can because i know damn well it aint gonna work.

and i aint whining so shut the fuck up. i could care less if marijuana is illegal, sure i would love it if it was legal because then id have no reason to be paranoid any longer but either way im gonna smoke it knowing damn well the consequences of my actions. i aint here to play activist.

ps: fuck albertons! sa should had kept krogers around longer...

Fuck Albertsons? :lol Is that supposed to be an insult to me? I don't work for Albertsons, ya tool. In fact, I work for Kroger.

Just so ya know, my av says "Albertsons: We Are Cockfags!" As a former Albertsons employee who was laid off to save a buck, I despise that company far more than you do.

By the way, here in Oregon marijuana was legalized for medical purposes. I know several people who possess and consume it legally here. Do you know how that happened? Citizens of this great state voted for it.

Also, I didn't vote for W. In fact, Kerry won the Oregon electoral votes. Not my fault your state wasted its 34 electoral votes on the moron.

[leemajors]

marbury changed his tune today - now vick was wrong, and it's bad.

[judaspriestess]

MARBURY DEFENDS VICK AUG.22,2007

NEW YORK -- New York Knicks guard Stephon Marbury defended Michael Vick, calling dogfighting a sport and comparing it to hunting.

Marbury spoke Monday about the federal dogfighting conspiracy charges against Vick while promoting his basketball shoe in Albany, N.Y.

"I think it's tough," Marbury said, according to Albany TV station Capital News 9. "I think, you know, we don't say anything about people who shoot deer or shoot other animals. You know, from what I hear, dogfighting is a sport. It's just behind closed doors."

On Monday, Vick said through a lawyer that he will plead guilty to a federal charge of conspiracy to travel in interstate commerce in aid of unlawful activities and conspiracy to sponsor a dog in an animal fighting venture. He also faces possible prosecution in Virginia.

"I think it's tough that we build Michael Vick up and then we break him down," Marbury said. "I think he's one of the superb athletes, and he's a good human being. I just think that he fell into a bad situation."

Copyright 2007 by The Associated Press

This is right up there with deon sanders & tiki barbers comments, fucking beyond the pale stupid. dogfighting is NOT like hunting. I don't recall ever hearing a story of hunters making deer fight each other to the death, sharpening their teeth etc and if it was a "sport" why is it behind closed doors and why is it illegal?

Here is a quote from Gandhi and Thomas Edison, and it may sound corny but I find it to be very true:
"A nation's progress can be judged by how they treat their animals". -Gandhi
"Until we stop harming all other living beings, we are still savages". -Thomas A. Edison

Dogfighting, cockfighting etc. is cruel and savage and simply put is NOT acceptable. The inhumane slaughter of animals for consumption is disgusting too. I hope this opens the doors to treating ALL animals humanely. I don't care if you eat meat, I have a problem with how animals are cruelly slaughtered. Hunting, well at least you kill the animal quickly and there is no pain.
Fuck you Michael Vick and anyone and everyone who condones this senseless treatment of a sentient being.

[duncan228]

marbury changed his tune today - now vick was wrong, and it's bad.

Did he really?

Got a link or what he said?

[T Park]

In fact, Kerry won the Oregon electoral votes. Not my fault your state wasted its 34 electoral votes on the moron.



Not our fault you like to vote for people that have no clue what they are voting on.

[The Truth #6]

This thread is hilarious. People go out of there way to slam Vick for his treatment of animals AND Peta for their defense of animals in the same post. Animals are killed all the time for product testing and other than the Peta crowd most people don't think much of it. Animals are killed cruelly all the time for a variety of reasons, yet it's this instance that somehow out of nowhere creates a firestorm of outrage.

This issue seems to have more to do with people's attitudes towards other people - Peta is full of filthy hippies, Vick is an out of control black athlete - than it does with the animals themselves. I say that because its not like anything positive momentum is coming out of all of this. Compared to slaughterhouses and animal product testing, pitbull fighting is a small percentage of animal cruelty. Its not like pitbull fighting is a great scourge on society. Its a small situation. So, people allow themselves to get all worked up and hate Vick because they don't like Vick anyway.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Oh my god.. here is the culture argument.

Its not your culture if its a felony, okay.
This is a southern sport that has migrated to inner cities and become part of the drug culture. Read anything about it and thats clear. The culture argument doesnt stand up.

Thats like saying a bunch of herione addicts are just part of a subculture that gets high all the time, its no different then drinking... except its a fuckin felony.

And torturing dogs to death and forcing them to fight by breeding and training them for that purpose is illegal, pure and simple. There is no justification for this... and saying its his culture is bullshit and you know it.

Again we torture and kill animals every single day for little to no purpose.

Cosmetics testing is much much worse than dog fighting for example yet it is commonly accepted. You do realize that it is perfectly legal to spray alcohol based propellants into the eyes of animals to 'test' what that will do?
Its funny that so many of you cannot justify it other than babbling about it being illegal which is exactly my point.

Plato was right about the evils of democracy becuase youre fucked if youre a minority culture in the US and your customs dont meet up with the imperialist majority.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

http://dailynews.att.net/cgi-bin/news?e=pub&dt=070823&cat=sports&st=sportsd8r6l2lg0&src=ap


Pit Bulls at Vick's House Face Deadline
Updated 5:18 AM ET August 23, 2007


By ZINIE CHEN SAMPSON

RICHMOND, Va. (AP) - More than 50 pit bulls seized from Michael Vick's property face a Thursday deadline to be claimed. If no one comes forward, they could be euthanized.

Federal prosecutors filed court documents last month to condemn 53 pit bulls seized in April as part of the investigation into dogfighting on the Vick's property. No one has claimed any of the dogs, which are being held at several unspecified shelters in eastern Virginia, the U.S. Attorney's office said Wednesday.

The civil complaint filed by federal prosecutors does not name the Atlanta Falcons quarterback and is separate from the criminal case against him. But it does state the pit bulls were part of the dogfighting operation known as "Bad Newz Kennels," which Vick and three cohorts are accused of operating.

Also included in the document are detailed allegations about the nature of the animals' training regimen and the dogfights occurring at Vick's property at 1915 Moonlight Road in Surry County.

The government filed three public civil forfeiture notices in a Richmond newspaper to publicize the dogs' confiscation, and the deadline for claims is 30 days after the appearance of the final notice, filed July 24.

Federal prosecutors declined to comment Wednesday on the seized dogs. Typically, when confiscated property goes unclaimed, the government asks the court to have the items declared forfeited. In this case, U.S. District Judge Henry E. Hudson will make the final decision on the dogs' fate.

"There's no dispute over who owns the dogs," said Daphna Nachminovitch, a spokeswoman for People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals. "Obviously this is not going to be a process where someone steps forward and says, 'This is my dog, can I have her back, please?' "

Though Hudson, who also is handling Vick's criminal case, will determine what becomes of the pit bulls, Nachminovitch said that it's likely that they will be euthanized because they're not adoptable as pets.

"These dogs are a ticking time bomb," she said. "Rehabilitating fighting dogs is not in the cards. It's widely accepted that euthanasia is the most humane thing for them."

Vick, 27, said through a lawyer this week that he will plead guilty to a federal charge of conspiracy to travel in interstate commerce in aid of unlawful activities and conspiracy to sponsor a dog in an animal fighting venture. He is scheduled to enter his plea agreement Monday and could face up to five years in prison.

Three Vick associates have pleaded guilty to the conspiracy charge and agreed to testify against him if the case went to trial. They said Vick provided virtually all the gambling and operating funds for the Bad Newz Kennels enterprise. Two of them also said Vick participated in executing at least eight underperforming dogs by various means, including drowning and hanging.

The locations of the shelters holding the dogs haven't been disclosed out of concern that the animals could be stolen, Nachminovitch said.

"They are a hot commodity in the world of dogfighting," she said.

Copyright 2007 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.


LMAO Vick cannot kill them but we can. This is rich. Bloody hypocrites.

[judaspriestess]

LMAO Vick cannot kill them but we can. This is rich. Bloody hypocrites.

"These dogs are a ticking time bomb," she said. "Rehabilitating fighting dogs is not in the cards. It's widely accepted that euthanasia is the most humane thing for them."

^^^^I think this should answer your question.


"Any society which does not insist upon respect for all life must necessarily decay." -Albert Einstein

[T Park]

Fuzzy Lumpkins congrats, you can now be considered an evil person just as equal as vick since you find it "OK" for Vick to hang and drown dogs.

[T Park]

No, I don't know why he has a UPC on his arm. Maybe that's how they track foul calls over there or something.

whats keeping you here?

Cuba will take ya.

Castro is such a nice fellow.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

"These dogs are a ticking time bomb," she said. "Rehabilitating fighting dogs is not in the cards. It's widely accepted that euthanasia is the most humane thing for them."

^^^^I think this should answer your question.


"Any society which does not insist upon respect for all life must necessarily decay." -Albert Einstein

Its basically an admission that it is within their nature to behave in the manner that they do then. The bottonline is that we are essentially saying that dogs have no right to live but Vick cannot kill them in the manner tha he does. Its so stupid its mundnumbing.

And Ive read ideas and opinions too. Hes a great physicist but as a political theorist and a moralist he leaves quite a bit to be desired. He was big into Kant and my whole point in all of this is that animal cruelty is not a priori in any way shape or form.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Fuzzy Lumpkins congrats, you can now be considered an evil person just as equal as vick since you find it "OK" for Vick to hang and drown dogs.

I dont condone dogfighting. Ive said that several times now. I think its cruel to animals. OTOH I find equal protection to be more important as its a human right and allowing people to perform animal testing and trophy hunting yet singling out one form of animal abuse.

If were going to allow horrible animal abuse for cheap thrills and vanity on one end who the hell are we to sya that others cannot do it in their own way.

Slaughterhouses are akin to nazi death camps which are perhaps the greaatest horror other than perhaps Khmer Rouge in the last century.

No one bats an eye at that but oh no save the dogs. Its stupid.

[judaspriestess]

Its basically an admission that it is within their nature to behave in the manner that they do then. The bottonline is that we are essentially saying that dogs have no right to live but Vick cannot kill them in the manner tha he does. Its so stupid its mundnumbing.

And Ive read ideas and opinions too. Hes a great physicist but as a political theorist and a moralist he leaves quite a bit to be desired. He was big into Kant and my whole point in all of this is that animal cruelty is not a priori in any way shape or form.


dude, its NOT a priority to YOU but see this isn't about you. Maybe you feel its not a big deal but others do. what is mundnumbing btw?

I dont condone dogfighting. Ive said that several times now. I think its cruel to animals. OTOH I find equal protection to be more important as its a human right and allowing people to perform animal testing and trophy hunting yet singling out one form of animal abuse.

If were going to allow horrible animal abuse for cheap thrills and vanity on one end who the hell are we to sya that others cannot do it in their own way.

Slaughterhouses are akin to nazi death camps which are perhaps the greaatest horror other than perhaps Khmer Rouge in the last century.

No one bats an eye at that but oh no save the dogs. Its stupid.

Ok I will agree with you on this. You are correct as I have stated in an earlier post. I hope this opens the doors to all animals being treated in a more humane way. This is why I stopped eating meat, I have an issue with the way animals are treated, I also try not to buy products from companies who still use animals to test their products. On vick, its is a form of selective anger BUT there are certain crimes that just enrage people more than others.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

dude, its NOT a priority to YOU but see this isn't about you. Maybe you feel its not a big deal but others do. what is mundnumbing btw?

That they are going to put Vick in jail for killing dogs and that the government that is going to do this to him is going to kill the rest of his dogs.

Its only a big deal because people in this country are generally culturally naive and believe that everyone should have the same values as them and if they dont that they are cruel or evil or whatever nonsense is spewed similar to T Park.

The thing you dont get is that I find dog fighting disgusting as well. OTOH I also realize that its a custom of a different culture that dont impinge on HUMAN rights and i dont judge people that practice the customs with which they were raised. Dogfighting wasnt being banned until about 20 years ago.

Its the same way I deal with bullfighting in Spain or the various cuisine choices around the world. Im sure thats also the way that other cultures deal with our culture having made cows are collective whipping boy.

[judaspriestess]

That they are going to put Vick in jail for killing dogs and that the government that is going to do this to them is going to kill the test of his dogs.

Its only a big deal because people in this country are generally culturally naive and believe that everyone should have the same values as them and if they dont that they are cruel or evil or whatever nonsense is spewed similar to T Park.

The thing you dont get is that I find dog fighting disgusting as well. OTOH I also realize that its a custom of a different culture that dont impinge on HUMAN rights and i dont judge people that practice the customs with which they were raised. Dogfighting wasnt being banned until about 20 years ago.

Its the same way I deal with bullfighting in Spain or the various cuisine choices around the world. Im sure thats also the way that other cultures deal with our culture having made cows are collective whipping boy.

I see now how you are bringing your point across. :)
Unfortunately these dogs cannot be rehabed. They are now instinctually inclined to kill anything. ANY dog can be trained to kill as any human can. The difference is, the are going to be EUTHANIZED. That is a very humane way to die. I was terrified of putting my baby cat down a couple of years ago cause he had cancer but I had to and once I did, he died very peacefully. These poor animals will at least die with dignity not from being abused. I am with you all the way about the selectiveness of the outrage. Lets hope this opens the doors that need to be opened.

[RC's Boss]

Ok, Vick is not an animal hater, but ironically enough I couldn't find any Vick Tshirts that had "animal lover" underneath. Weird, huh?

Does the name Sonya Elliot ring a bell? That was the lady who sued Vick for allegedly passing on genital herpes knowingly without informing her. Then he checks into a clinic seeking treatment under the alias of Ron Mexico. The suit was settled out of court so we will probably never know the full story.


How about when Vick gave fans in the Georgia Dome the double whammy two fisted obscene middle finger salute. I'm pretty sure he wasn't saying hi to all his loyal fans and those who supported him. Bad day at the office, I'll just go flip off some people "at my work place". That'll really endear me to my boss and clients.

How about in jan when he was stopped at Miami International on his way home to Atlanta and a water bottle with a hidden compartment was confiscated by security because he was reluctant to leave it behind. Though never charged, come on that should sound off some warning bells. Everyone puts their valuables in containers that can't be carried thru security or on a plane. Of course it's common practice.

Which brings us to his latest faux paux; being an active, participating member in an illegal dogfighting ring. Let me repharase that - he actually sanctioned, funded, ran and participated in the operation.

Ok, maybe Vick is not a skid mark, lower lifeform or demonic creature. What would you call someone who demonstrates no conscience, remorse or lack of feeling and empathy for his victims and those he has hurt? I believe the term is pyschopath. And this time regardless of whatever punishment he gets, he will also be proven to show what he truely is - a criminal.
Boy you did some research! Not research of planetary alignments or global warming, but something important, like Michael Vick's life :rolleyes (Sounds a bit crazy to me) :lol HEAR ME LOUD AND CLEAR. TO ALL THAT CONDEMN VICK FOR WHAT HE DID TO THOSE "POOR" DOGS, THERE'S NOT SHIT YOU CAN POST ON THIS FORUM THAT WOULD ME ME GIVE TWO FUCKS ABOUT SOME FUCKING MANGY ASS DOGS BEING ABUSED! btw, If I'm having a bad day, I flip people off on the freeway all the time during heavty traffic. I guess I should be hospitalized huh :rolleyes Also, Kobe didn't rape that tramp bitch w/ the different semen samples in her panties! I'm no laker fan, but damn! If she was seeking justice, she would have let the case go to trial rather than take her "undisclosed" sum of money and haul ass to sunny Florida.

[K-State Spur]

id rather kill brain cells then crash into people on the road from being drunk...

mj unlike cigs is a lot easier to grow and process so therefor a lot of people will be getting away with growing herb instead of buying it.

well, last time i checked, driving drunk isn't legal either, so not quite sure what that has to do with anything.

as for the growing - some people might try to do it. but once you legalize it, it's very likely that large corporation could sell it much easier and cheaper - and completely taxable.

people can grow tomato plants in their backyards as well - but most still get their produce from the grocery store.

i'm actually in favor of legalization. i'm just telling you that the theory that it isn't legal is because it is untaxable is BS.

[K-State Spur]

Animals are killed cruelly all the time for a variety of reasons, yet it's this instance that somehow out of nowhere creates a firestorm of outrage.


While I believe that a lot of the animal testing could be more regulated - the key word in your post was REASONS.

People tend to draw a distinction between killing a cow that was bred to feed humans vs. sticking shards of glass in the face of man's best friend just for sick entertainment.

[K-State Spur]

The bottonline is that we are essentially saying that dogs have no right to live but Vick cannot kill them in the manner tha he does.

Who is saying that? What they're saying is BECAUSE of Vick (and his buddies), these dogs have been trained for fighting. Once a dog has been trained for fighting - it is inherently dangerous to release them back into society. Very few dog owners are mentally and physically capable of rehabilitating a fighting dog.

And, if you need a reason for cruelty to dogs to be important to humans:

It's a sign of psychopathy - Many people who are cruel to pets prove to do cruel things to humans at a later time.

[dimsah]

I find this whole conversation very interesting reading. Getting to see several sides to the argument.

I can't say I agree with the hunting analogy however, but there isn't much I can say that hasn't already been said. I'm not a hunter, but I do consider hunting for food part of the natural order, and don't see how a human killing a deer for food is any different than a bobcat or coyote killing their prey for food.

I'll have no problem with any verdict that is handed down to Vick whether it's jail time or fines/suspensions, etc. I think he definitely has some issues and should be given mandatory therapy sessions to find out why he would take such pleasure in torturing these animals.

[Holt's Cat]

Because all deer, ducks, etc...who are hunted enjoy such quick and painless deaths. Americans are fucking stupid about the things they worry about.

[leemajors]

Did he really?

Got a link or what he said?
they talked about it on PTI, but i don't have a link.

[leemajors]

nm found it:

http://www.nypost.com/seven/08232007/news/regionalnews/marbury__vick_is_100_percent_w.htm

[HighLowLobForBig-50]

after reading this thread, i can conclude that-
a.people love dogs
b.breaking the law is punishable
c.mike vick is a fu$%#! idiot

[The Truth #6]

While I believe that a lot of the animal testing could be more regulated - the key word in your post was REASONS.

People tend to draw a distinction between killing a cow that was bred to feed humans vs. sticking shards of glass in the face of man's best friend just for sick entertainment.

The distinction you allude to has nothing to do with animal testing (which is the passage you quoted) so I don't see what argument you are making. Animal testing has nothing to do with feeding humans. It has more to do with sick entertainment, and that's my point - people are caught up with people's reactions to animal cruelty, not the actual animal cruelty itself.

[Demo Dick Marcinko]

Boy you did some research! Not research of planetary alignments or global warming, but something important, like Michael Vick's life :rolleyes (Sounds a bit crazy to me) :lol HEAR ME LOUD AND CLEAR. TO ALL THAT CONDEMN VICK FOR WHAT HE DID TO THOSE "POOR" DOGS, THERE'S NOT SHIT YOU CAN POST ON THIS FORUM THAT WOULD ME ME GIVE TWO FUCKS ABOUT SOME FUCKING MANGY ASS DOGS BEING ABUSED! btw, If I'm having a bad day, I flip people off on the freeway all the time during heavty traffic. I guess I should be hospitalized huh :rolleyes Also, Kobe didn't rape that tramp bitch w/ the different semen samples in her panties! I'm no laker fan, but damn! If she was seeking justice, she would have let the case go to trial rather than take her "undisclosed" sum of money and haul ass to sunny Florida.

Research, that's rich. Not sure if you noticed, but Vick is on just about every news and sports channel. Can't switch a channel or pull up a web site without something about Vick being on ad nauseam. I'm a little fuzzy on planetary alignments, but we can sure discuss global warming, or healthcare reform, or that little conflict we got going on in the middle east. I'm not sure where you got the impression that anyone is trying to shape and mold some of these fine minds on this forum, just expressing an opinion...just like you. We are who we are and only the feeble minded can have their core beliefs and values shaped by a free public sports forum.

And I don't know that you need to be institutionalized because you flip people off all the time, but it sounds like you have anger issues and you may want to talk to someone. Let me encourage you to exercise a little caution because one day you may run into someone who's having a very bad day. Know what I mean. Look at it this way, you're more valuable to your family alive then at the county morgue. You end up going from Macho Man to Dead Guy real fast.

I'm not sure how Kobe came up, so unless he just got traded to the Spurs, you may have to help me out. :lol :toast

[K-State Spur]

The distinction you allude to has nothing to do with animal testing (which is the passage you quoted) so I don't see what argument you are making. Animal testing has nothing to do with feeding humans. It has more to do with sick entertainment, and that's my point - people are caught up with people's reactions to animal cruelty, not the actual animal cruelty itself.

Well, how far they should go with animal testing is a whole other topic. But obviously its purpose is to make sure that a seemingly safe product is not released on the market to humans only to find out later that it has detrimental effects. While there is certainly some level of cruelty in play with select products, there is also a benefit to society angle as well.

[41times]

Boy you did some research! Not research of planetary alignments or global warming, but something important, like Michael Vick's life :rolleyes (Sounds a bit crazy to me) :lol HEAR ME LOUD AND CLEAR. TO ALL THAT CONDEMN VICK FOR WHAT HE DID TO THOSE "POOR" DOGS, THERE'S NOT SHIT YOU CAN POST ON THIS FORUM THAT WOULD ME ME GIVE TWO FUCKS ABOUT SOME FUCKING MANGY ASS DOGS BEING ABUSED! btw, If I'm having a bad day, I flip people off on the freeway all the time during heavty traffic. I guess I should be hospitalized huh :rolleyes Also, Kobe didn't rape that tramp bitch w/ the different semen samples in her panties! I'm no laker fan, but damn! If she was seeking justice, she would have let the case go to trial rather than take her "undisclosed" sum of money and haul ass to sunny Florida.

Here is another perfect example of the decaying of our society. It is this type of attitude that is slowly kreeping it's way into the fabric of our culture. Sadly some day this type of person will be the rule vs. the exception

If this type of cancer continues to spread it won't be long before Bull Fighting, Cock Fighting and Dog fighting will be passe' and some will turn to human fighting to the death like in the Roman Days. Hell we are half way there with UFC fighting now.God help us all.

[Spurminator]

Here is another perfect example of the decaying of our society. It is this type of attitude that is slowly kreeping it's way into the fabric of our culture. Sadly some day this type of person will be the rule vs. the exception

If this type of cancer continues to spread it won't be long before Bull Fighting, Cock Fighting and Dog fighting will be passe' and some will turn to human fighting to the death like in the Roman Days. Hell we are half way there with UFC fighting now.God help us all.

Decaying? That opinion is growing less popular, not more.

Do you really think this would have gotten as much press in 1960? (Well, without considering the racial element, that is. Speaking of "decay"...)

[DR WU]

Report: Marbury backs off Vick comments
Associated Press, Updated 7 hours ago, 8/24/07




NEW YORK (AP) - New York Knicks guard Stephon Marbury backed off his defense of Michael Vick, according to newspaper reports Friday.

"What Michael Vick did was wrong, and he has admitted his guilt," Marbury said in a statement released by the Knicks to New York newspapers. "He should be punished. However, he should be given a second chance, as others have received for more serious crimes."
Marbury had made controversial comments Monday about the federal dogfighting conspiracy charges against Vick while promoting his basketball shoe in Albany.

"I think it's tough," Marbury said, according to Albany TV station Capital News 9. "I think, you know, we don't say anything about people who shoot deer or shoot other animals. You know, from what I hear, dogfighting is a sport. It's just behind closed doors."

Marbury expanded on those comments in the statement.

"There is no list for which animals should be killed and which shouldn't. I love animals and none of them should be harmed However, we don't react the same when other animals are being killed for sport or the sake of human pleasure."

[Demo Dick Marcinko]

That they are going to put Vick in jail for killing dogs and that the government that is going to do this to him is going to kill the rest of his dogs.


You don't get it, the dogs have been specifically bred, conditioned and trained to fight. That's all they know. They can not be safely rehabilitated. The most humane, painless way to put them down is to euthanize the dogs. Common sense.

I want to see people who think like this write to their congressman, tell them how hypocritical the governments actions are and tell them that you want one of Vick's pits as a family pet because it's hypocritical to euthanize them and then leave your kids home alone with them. I wonder if they'll still feel so passionate against putting them down.

[sandman]

"There is no list for which animals should be killed and which shouldn't. I love animals and none of them should be harmed However, we don't react the same when other animals are being killed for sport or the sake of human pleasure."

Marbury would probably be outraged at how the City of Austin is advocating the killing of deer simply for sport and human pleasure...

"Unfortunately, white-tailed deer have become extremely over-populated in many areas including Central Texas. "

"The spread of farming, ranching and urban areas took its toll on wolves, coyotes, mountain lions, bobcats and bears, all natural predators of deer."

"When their predators are absent, this high birth rate produces over-population."

'Even in favorable habitats, deer populations will find an upper limit ("carrying capacity") at which starvation and disease set in... A more widespread effect is over-browse... will destroy existing endangered species habitat... Homeowners annually spend thousands of dollars replacing landscapes destroyed by hungry deer... best known danger to humans is Lyme disease."

"Unfortunately, the deer harvest limit and short hunting season regulated by Texas Parks and Wildlife does not remove enough deer from the existing population to compensate for their high rate of reproduction. "

"Lethal, humane culling by professionals is the most cost effective solution available at this time. Land managers throughout the nation are managing deer populations to reduce their numbers to sustainable levels. Land managers must now adopt lethal means to replace now-absent predators. Without culling, deer populations cannot return to normal healthy levels. State law requires that the meat produced by culling be used beneficially. It is usually donated to food banks and similar charities. "

http://www.ci.austin.tx.us/preserves/whatis.htm

Even the Lib'rals in Austin who want to protect bats, lizards and moths understand that hunting deer serves an ecological, environmental and safety purpose.

[Sec24Row7]

Here is another perfect example of the decaying of our society. It is this type of attitude that is slowly kreeping it's way into the fabric of our culture. Sadly some day this type of person will be the rule vs. the exception

If this type of cancer continues to spread it won't be long before Bull Fighting, Cock Fighting and Dog fighting will be passe' and some will turn to human fighting to the death like in the Roman Days. Hell we are half way there with UFC fighting now.God help us all.


As people get more and more detatched from what they eat buying processed food from a grocery store they fool themselves into thinking that they are above the food chain. They are detatched from reality.

That is the cancer that is happening in our society.

I like Bullfights. I've been to a legal cockfight. Sue me.

They are OLD TRADITIONS. These aren't a moral decay. They have been here for thousands of years.

I don't like dogfights because well... I like dogs... but I hate Pitbulls... go figure.

If I saw a pitbull on my ranch I would shoot it no questions asked.

Sue me. Get your meat wrapped in plastic and swear to yourself that something hasn't died for your benefit or entertainment and keep living your lie of a life.

I'm perfectly happy in my skin.

[ratm1221]

I have not read one intelligent post defending Vick. He screwed up and he should pay. He has issues.

For those of you that think animal testing goes unchallenged you might need to come out of the closet you have been living in. It just doesn't get as much media attention because it is old news. It has been a long, drawn out battle. Animal testing is pointless. Do we really need any more shampoos in the world?

All animal cruelty that happens in the country is a big issue to a lot of people. But Michael Vick is a celebrity, so of course he is going to get the blunt of it. I see stories on the news all the time about people getting jail time for putting their dog in the washing machine or throwing someones dog into traffic. Hell, there was a guy just yesterday on the news that is spending 2 years in jail for burning a dog. So don't try and say everyone gets away with it except for Michael Vick. That's just plain ignorant.

Again, I don't hunt, but I can't believe that anyone could say that hunting is just as big of an issue as dog fighting.


As people get more and more detatched from what they eat buying processed food from a grocery store they fool themselves into thinking that they are above the food chain. They are detatched from reality.


People eat meat. It's a fact. Dogfighters don't eat their dogs after they get mutilated or drown them in a bathtub. I wasn't aware of the cow fighting that went on before they package it up and send it to the grocery store.

[Sec24Row7]

People eat meat. It's a fact. Dogfighters don't eat their dogs after they get mutilated or drown them in a bathtub. I wasn't aware of the cow fighting that went on before they package it up and send it to the grocery store.

I never defended Vick or compared what he was doing to Slaughterhouse processing. I was responding to a specific poster whom I quoted above that long statement. Unless you are that idiot, I wasn't talking to you.

[41times]

I guess because Vick had help killing the dogs and did not do it all by himself would make it much better for him? :wtf
To me that just means that there are 4 sick bastards instead of just one.

Here is an idea for Vick's 12-18 month prison sentence. Every day the wardon brings big Bubba over from a neighboring cell and he holds Mike's head under the toilet water for 2 minutes and then lets him up. If he makes it 2 minutes then Big Bubba goes back to his cell until tomorrow. If Mike doesn't make it then.....well dead men tell no tales.

The Atlanta Falcons quarterback is scheduled to formally enter his plea Monday in U.S. District Court. "Most of the Bad Newz Kennels operation and gambling monies were provided by Vick," a summary of facts in the case said, echoing language in plea agreements by three co-defendants who previously pleaded guilty.
The statement said that when the kennel's dogs won, the gambling proceeds were generally shared by Vick's three co-defendants -- Tony Taylor, Purnell Peace and Quanis Phillips.
"Vick did not gamble by placing side bets on any of the fights. Vick did not receive any of the proceeds of the purses that were won by Bad Newz Kennels," the summary said.
According to the statement, Vick also was involved in killing six to eight dogs that did not perform well in test sessions last April. The dogs were executed by drowning or hanging.
"Vick agrees and stipulates that these dogs all died as a result of the collective efforts" of Vick and two of the co-defendants, Phillips and Peace, the statement says.
In the plea agreement, the government committed to recommending a sentence on the low end of the federal sentencing guideline range of a year to 18 months. However, the conspiracy charge is punishable by up to five years in prison, and the judge is not bound by any recommendation or by the sentencing guidelines.
U.S. District Judge Henry E. Hudson, who will accept Vick's plea, has a reputation for imposing stiff sentences, according to lawyers who have appeared in his court. Vick will not be sentenced for several months.

[LuvBones]

http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb78/gogino20/2777-hehe.jpg

[ratm1221]

I never defended Vick or compared what he was doing to Slaughterhouse processing. I was responding to a specific poster whom I quoted above that long statement. Unless you are that idiot, I wasn't talking to you.

Sorry to break this to you but this is a public forum. When you address something you are addressing everyone. If you wanted it to be a private message you should have messaged him and not posted it a public board. I didn't agree with your post and I still don't. So, like you said, sue me.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Well, how far they should go with animal testing is a whole other topic. But obviously its purpose is to make sure that a seemingly safe product is not released on the market to humans only to find out later that it has detrimental effects. While there is certainly some level of cruelty in play with select products, there is also a benefit to society angle as well.

The products in question here are pure vanity. They inject rats and spray rabbits in the eyes aand other orifices so your wife can smell nice.

Choose your vice: vanity or wrath.

Dog fighting makes people money. there is an economic benefit to it. Its called entertainment.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Marbury would probably be outraged at how the City of Austin is advocating the killing of deer simply for sport and human pleasure...

"Unfortunately, white-tailed deer have become extremely over-populated in many areas including Central Texas. "

"The spread of farming, ranching and urban areas took its toll on wolves, coyotes, mountain lions, bobcats and bears, all natural predators of deer."

"When their predators are absent, this high birth rate produces over-population."

'Even in favorable habitats, deer populations will find an upper limit ("carrying capacity") at which starvation and disease set in... A more widespread effect is over-browse... will destroy existing endangered species habitat... Homeowners annually spend thousands of dollars replacing landscapes destroyed by hungry deer... best known danger to humans is Lyme disease."

"Unfortunately, the deer harvest limit and short hunting season regulated by Texas Parks and Wildlife does not remove enough deer from the existing population to compensate for their high rate of reproduction. "

"Lethal, humane culling by professionals is the most cost effective solution available at this time. Land managers throughout the nation are managing deer populations to reduce their numbers to sustainable levels. Land managers must now adopt lethal means to replace now-absent predators. Without culling, deer populations cannot return to normal healthy levels. State law requires that the meat produced by culling be used beneficially. It is usually donated to food banks and similar charities. "

http://www.ci.austin.tx.us/preserves/whatis.htm

Even the Lib'rals in Austin who want to protect bats, lizards and moths understand that hunting deer serves an ecological, environmental and safety purpose.

And this proves that we as humans have the right to kill animals whenever we feel like it. And ive yet to see a deer famine or a deer plague.

[Sec24Row7]

And this proves that we as humans have the right to kill animals whenever we feel like it. And ive yet to see a deer famine or a deer plague.


You're a fucking idiot.

Of course you haven't.

You've probably driven off pavement once in your life.

[duncan228]

FYI update: NFL suspended Vick.

http://dailynews.att.net/cgi-bin/news?e=pub&dt=070825&cat=news&st=newsd8r812r80&src=ap

Nike dropped him also, don't have that link at the moment.

[Avitus1]

FYI update: NFL suspended Vick.

http://dailynews.att.net/cgi-bin/news?e=pub&dt=070825&cat=news&st=newsd8r812r80&src=ap

Nike dropped him also, don't have that link at the moment.

I got a link about Nike Dropping him



http://www.cnbc.com/id/19976022

[duncan228]

I got a link about Nike Dropping him
http://www.cnbc.com/id/19976022

Thanks, I still hadn't gotten to it!

[Demo Dick Marcinko]

Vicks father is throwing him into the coals and I think now I now why Vick is the way he is.http://www.ajc.com/search/content/shared/sports/stories/2007/08/FBN_VICK_DAD_0824_COX.html

Seems like the fruit doesn't fall very far from the tree. Ya think?

Vick may have celebrity company. Rapper DMX may now be in some hot water over dogfighting. Several pit bulls seized, burned dog bodies found in the back yard.

http://www.accessatlanta.com/news/content/shared-gen/ap/Recordings/DMX_Home_Raided.html

[Slinkyman]

http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb78/gogino20/2777-hehe.jpg

Where's Brian from Family Guy? Brian would fuck vick up, with help from stewie of course.

http://www.starstore.com/acatalog/Brian-standup.jpg

[41times]

DMX is probably just one of Many rap artist who have pit bulls who fight. They need to delve into that world a little more and uncover some sick shit.

[duncan228]

Vick apologized at the news conference after court today.

http://dailynews.att.net/cgi-bin/news?e=pri&dt=070827&cat=sports&st=sportsd8r9hgk00&src=ap

Vick Issues Apology After Guilty Plea

By LARRY O'DELL

RICHMOND, Va. (AP) - Looking somber and speaking "from the heart," Michael Vick apologized Monday for "using bad judgment and making bad decisions" and vowed to redeem himself after pleading guilty to a federal dogfighting charge.

"First I want to apologize for all the things that I've done and that I have allowed to happen," the star quarterback said at a news conference following his appearance in U.S. District Court to formally enter the plea.

Sentencing was set for Dec. 10 and Vick could be sent to prison for one to five years. Vick was suspended indefinitely by the NFL last week.

In Atlanta, the Falcons said they would not cut Vick immediately because of salary-cap issues. The team intends to pursue the $22 million in bonus money that he already received in a record $130 million contract signed in 2004.

"We cannot tell you today that Michael is cut from the team," owner Arthur Blank said. "It may feel better emotionally for us and many of our fans, but it's not in the long-term best interests of the franchise."

Vick made his first public statements on the dogfighting ring and said:

"I made a mistake of using bad judgment and making bad decisions. Those things just can't happen. Dogfighting is a terrible thing, and I do reject it."

He singled out NFL commissioner Roger Goodell, Blank, coach Bobby Petrino and his teammates for personal apologies, saying "I was not honest and forthright in our discussions."

He also apologized to "all the young kids out there for my immature acts and what I did _ and what I did was very immature. So that means I need to grow up."

"I totally ask for forgiveness and understanding as I move forward to bettering Michael Vick the person, not the football player," he said.

He concluded by saying, "I offer my deepest apologies to everyone. And I will redeem myself. I have to."

Vick took no questions.

He said little in court, standing erect and softly answering "Yes, sir" and "No, sir" to U.S. District Judge Henry E. Hudson's questions. Family members occupied the front row of the packed courtroom for the 15-minute hearing.

The plea by the suspended quarterback was accepted by Hudson, who asked: "Are you entering the plea of guilty to a conspiracy charge because you are in fact guilty?"

Vick answered yes.

Hudson emphasized he is not bound by sentencing guidelines or the recommendations of prosecutors and can impose the maximum sentence. Prosecutors proposed a 12- to 18-month prison term.

"You're taking your chances here. You'll have to live with whatever decision I make," Hudson said.

"A first-time offender might well receive no jail time for this offense," U.S. Attorney Chuck Rosenberg said in a statement. "We thought, however, that the conduct in this conspiracy was heinous, cruel and inhumane." Vick is one of four defendants in the case.

The first defendant to plead guilty left the conspiracy in 2004 and is not as culpable, Rosenberg said.

Blank and general manager Rich McKay refused to say that Vick's career in Atlanta was over, though that is likely more a legal issue than an indicator of their future plans.

"We cannot undo what's been done," Blank said. "But we can and will recover from this."

The Falcons will receive a $6 million cap credit for Vick's salary this year since he's been suspended without pay. They are still on the hook for approximately $22 million in prorated bonus obligations spread out over this season and the next two.

Baseball Hall of Famer Hank Aaron and former Atlanta Mayor and U.N. Ambassador Andrew Young, both members of the Falcons' board, attended the news conference at Blank's corporate headquarters.

In his written plea filed last week, Vick admitted helping kill six to eight pit bulls and supplying money for gambling on the fights. He said he did not personally place any bets or share in any winnings.

Shortly afterward, the NFL suspended him indefinitely and without pay. Merely associating with gamblers can trigger a lifetime ban under the league's personal conduct policy.

The case began in late April when authorities conducting a drug investigation of Vick's cousin raided the former Virginia Tech star's rural Surry County property and seized dozens of dogs, some injured, and equipment commonly used in dogfighting.

A federal indictment issued in July charged Vick, Purnell Peace of Virginia Beach, Quanis Phillips of Atlanta and Tony Taylor of Hampton with an interstate dogfighting conspiracy. Vick initially denied any involvement, and all four men pleaded innocent. Taylor was the first to change his plea to guilty; Phillips and Peace soon followed.

The details outlined in the indictment and other court papers fueled a public backlash against Vick and cost him several lucrative endorsement deals, even before he agreed to plead guilty.

The Falcons were to play an exhibition game at home against the Cincinnati Bengals later Monday. This will be the first chance for the team to see what effect Vick's case has on attendance at the Georgia Dome. Vick wears the biggest-selling jersey in team history and is given much credit for its 51 consecutive sellouts.

"We're putting the emotions, the shock, the disappointment, the anger and the once-held hope that this was not true behind us," Blank said. "I assure you we'll do all we possibly can to make this season a success."

[sandman]

And this proves that we as humans have the right to kill animals whenever we feel like it. And ive yet to see a deer famine or a deer plague.

This has nothing to do with "feelings", but rather our need to take action to keep the ol' "circle of life" thing going. C'mon, you seem like a "natural selection" kind of guy. Would it bother you if we released 1000's of natural predators back into the area to "cull the herd"? I think not. Your issue is probably the NRA, Republicans or GW. I doubt you give a rat's ass about the deer or the dogs.

As to the famine/plague thing, the fact that South Texas deer being the size of large dogs because of the negative impacts of overpopulation is completely lost on you.

[sandman]

You're a fucking idiot.

Of course you haven't.

You've probably driven off pavement once in your life.

C'mon, you know his hybrid Subaru wagon is all wheel drive. I say at least twice.